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S09.E05: How To Succeed In Business Without Really Crying

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in Will & Grace [V]

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SnarkyTart

SnarkyTart

22 minutes is simply too short of a time to try to pack 3 unrelated storylines into, imo.  It ends up looking like 3 unconnected skits from SNL, with a lot of set-up filler just to deliver a one-liner about Weinstein or Sessions.  For me, Messing is not a good enough comedian to pull off extended segments that don't center around her interactions with Will or Karen.  Will and Karen are still the strong points in this cast, so maybe having both of them working in the same office with Grace will help...maybe.  I'm sad not to be enjoying this reboot nearly as much as I'd hoped, and I'm this.close to removing it from my season passes. :-(

  • Love 3
eXiled

eXiled

9 hours ago, SnarkyTart said:

22 minutes is simply too short of a time to try to pack 3 unrelated storylines into, imo.  It ends up looking like 3 unconnected skits from SNL, with a lot of set-up filler just to deliver a one-liner about Weinstein or Sessions.  For me, Messing is not a good enough comedian to pull off extended segments that don't center around her interactions with Will or Karen.  Will and Karen are still the strong points in this cast, so maybe having both of them working in the same office with Grace will help...maybe.  I'm sad not to be enjoying this reboot nearly as much as I'd hoped, and I'm this.close to removing it from my season passes. :-(

I've already done it. I just can't bring myself to watch anymore. I'm bummed because the original remains one of my favorite comedies of all time. I wanted to love this.  I still laugh at reruns I've seen dozens of times. This reboot sucks badly.

Is it just me, or does it seem that Eric McCormack seems to have less to do in this version? Strange, because other than Megan, I think he's the only one who still feels like his character! I know next week will probably have wacky hijinks ensuing with Will & Grace at the office, but I won't be watching as it feels strange. Why would Will work for Grace?

  • Love 4
festivus

festivus

6 hours ago, eXiled said:

Is it just me, or does it seem that Eric McCormack seems to have less to do in this version? Strange, because other than Megan, I think he's the only one who still feels like his character! I know next week will probably have wacky hijinks ensuing with Will & Grace at the office, but I won't be watching as it feels strange. Why would Will work for Grace?

Yeah it seems that way to me too. Eric does have another show he's on, Travelers. I don't know if the shooting for that one interfered with Will and Grace or not. I'm hoping we see more Will and Karen at the office than Will and Grace. Will and Karen together is my favorite pairing.

  • Love 2
Bruinsfan

Bruinsfan

On 10/28/2017 at 3:18 PM, juliet73 said:

Jack was always a great character, but this time around, he seems not so "Jackish".  I can't put my finger on it...something is just off.

I've noticed that he's not NEARLY as vicious toward his friends and other people, which is welcome as it made Jack like nails on chalkboard to me in the show's original run. He's still flighty and sarcastic enough to be funny, but it doesn't have the edge of meanness and delusional self-absortion that it used to. Having his rift with his son be over something genuinely very hurtful rather than a trivial disagreement was a step in the right direction, as was giving him some protective and generous moments with his grandson and that student at the afterschool program.

I'd love it if they could get Veronica Cartwright back as Mrs. McFarland; she was a hoot.

  • Love 9
SanDiegoInExile

SanDiegoInExile

On 10/28/2017 at 4:35 AM, txhorns79 said:

....  The first thing being: What exactly would he be doing for Grace?  It's not like he's a designer, or she needs a full time lawyer.  If she really just needs someone to supervise what sounds like multiple ongoing projects, is that something he would really know how to do? .....

From what they have presented so far, I think we are supposed to believe that Grace Adler Designs has become a much much larger enterprise.  It's no longer a one-woman design firm (hence the badly-presented perhaps-miscast male employee).  Indeed, the work for the hotel chain is almost a full time job unto itself.  And Grace has never been portrayed as particularly business-savvy.  So she needs a business manager.  Many attorneys have a great skill set for organization, which is probably something Grace Adler Design could use.  It's not as if they will have Will choosing wallpaper and fabric swatches.  Yet he can negotiate contracts, supervise workflow, hire and administer staff, and free Grace to focus on just design.

the way that this reboot has evolved may be coming into play here.  Originally, we just had 8 episodes, then suddenly it was 13, then 16 and a Season Two.  I wonder if the producers had mapped out an 8-episode arc, thinking that would be it.  And we are 5/8th through that.  They may have not really thought much about what Will would bring to the design firm as a long term storyline.

Will has been the best part of the re-boot, so giving him a new angle may be a good thing.

  • Love 8
SanDiegoInExile

SanDiegoInExile

20 hours ago, wendyg said:

I think NBC is going to really regret having renewed for a 2nd season so soon.

After all, renewing your highest rated comedy program is such a bad idea.

The show goes away after next week, thanks to NFL football until the end of the year.   Rumor has it that we get a holiday episode (I bet its a full hour long) and then the show is off until January. Meanwhile NBC will beat the reruns to death and fans will be eager for new shows in January.  Then we get a Winter Olympic Break.  It's not clear if we will get the remaining handful of episodes right after the Olympics or they will hold them for April/May (sweeps).

  • Love 5
txhorns79

txhorns79

Quote

From what they have presented so far, I think we are supposed to believe that Grace Adler Designs has become a much much larger enterprise.  It's no longer a one-woman design firm (hence the badly-presented perhaps-miscast male employee).  Indeed, the work for the hotel chain is almost a full time job unto itself.  And Grace has never been portrayed as particularly business-savvy.  So she needs a business manager.  Many attorneys have a great skill set for organization, which is probably something Grace Adler Design could use.  It's not as if they will have Will choosing wallpaper and fabric swatches.  Yet he can negotiate contracts, supervise workflow, hire and administer staff, and free Grace to focus on just design.

I think Grace referred to her male employee as an apprentice designer, so it is still just a one-woman design firm.  Though you may be right about Will acting as a kind of business manager.   

  • Love 1
MerBearHou

MerBearHou

(edited)

The show is pretty funny, to be sure, but for me now, more often than not, the gay jokes seem mean, are uncomfortable and don't really amuse.  The atmosphere is just different now. 

Just cannot fathom that it's a good move for Will to work for/with Grace.  But the big hotel chain is a cool opportunity and I'm stunned that Grace got that massive job.

Edited by MerBearHou
Gothish520

Gothish520

2 hours ago, roughing it said:

I missed this!  HA!  Some of the jokes are spoken so rapidly, I miss some of them.

Exactly why I often rewatch shows I love - I always catch something I missed or didn't get to enjoy enough the first time. I also find that I enjoy an episode more the second (or even third) time I watch it. 

  • Love 1
SanDiegoInExile

SanDiegoInExile

13 hours ago, wendyg said:

sandiegoinexil: but will it be come the end of the season?

No one can predict.  We do know that football has sidelined "Mom", which like W+G skews heavily female.  And Scandal is in its Final Season, so it may show some life in early 2018.  The Futon Critic shows that after this week and the Dec 5 "Holiday Episode", the show is off until AFTER the Olympics, so we won't see how the Final 8 episodes of the season do until well into 2018.  NBC's other sitcoms barely score half the ratings of W+G.  Simple math indicates that W+G would need to start pulling sub 1.0 ratings to drop far enough to end the season as the #2 NBC sitcom (the other NBC Thursday sitcoms are not exactly bringing in many fans).

  • Love 1
ButterQueen

ButterQueen

I'm really enjoying the show.  I watch it for what it is, and don't mentally compare it to it's previous run.  It's like catching up with old friends.  I think they all look great, and are all settling into their new roles quite nicely.  There is no other sitcom on television right now that I enjoy more.

Loved the Karen/Beverly reunion.  They are gold together.

  • Love 8
Gothish520

Gothish520

(edited)
On 10/30/2017 at 4:29 AM, SanDiegoInExile said:

After all, renewing your highest rated comedy program is such a bad idea.

The show goes away after next week, thanks to NFL football until the end of the year.   Rumor has it that we get a holiday episode (I bet its a full hour long) and then the show is off until January. Meanwhile NBC will beat the reruns to death and fans will be eager for new shows in January.  Then we get a Winter Olympic Break.  It's not clear if we will get the remaining handful of episodes right after the Olympics or they will hold them for April/May (sweeps).

I will take any and all episodes I can get. I don't understand all the haters who seem to delight in saying that they think the show sucks and hope that it fails. If one at all liked the original, then this reboot has more than held up its end so far. 

13 hours ago, ButterQueen said:

I'm really enjoying the show.  I watch it for what it is, and don't mentally compare it to it's previous run.  It's like catching up with old friends.  I think they all look great, and are all settling into their new roles quite nicely.  There is no other sitcom on television right now that I enjoy more.

Loved the Karen/Beverly reunion.  They are gold together.

Very well said! 

Edited by Gothish520
word
  • Love 4
marina to

marina to

On 10/28/2017 at 7:35 AM, txhorns79 said:

I'll preface this by saying I know it's a tv show, so real world concerns do not necessarily apply.  However, this is what I'm talking about in terms of getting older and gaining more life experience.  I think someone Will's age has a lot more things to consider before throwing everything away.  The first thing being: What exactly would he be doing for Grace?  It's not like he's a designer, or she needs a full time lawyer.  If she really just needs someone to supervise what sounds like multiple ongoing projects, is that something he would really know how to do?  What happens when her projects end, if she doesn't have anything as big lined up?  Then you go into questions of pay, what happens if he hates the job with Grace and whether there are other, less dramatic options, he wants to explore before quitting his current position.  Just IMO, he's too old to be making such rash decisions regarding his career, particularly if the main driver is something as subjective and fluid as happiness, and I think someone his age would likely realize that.         

Now that I'm 50, I have a lot less tolerance for spending a lot of time doing something I hate. I see that in Will, too. He looks around the table, sees that everyone around has had the life sucked out of them. So why would he want it? He had a moment where he saw the future he'd mapped out for himself was not going to bring him the satisfaction he wanted and it scared the crap out of him. My cousin got out of the corporate law firm at 50 and now has himself a fabulous job where he's doing quite fine for himself. Will has that same skill set. His decision was probably the most realistic thing in the whole episode for me.

  • Love 6
Not4Me

Not4Me

On 11/3/2017 at 10:21 PM, ButterQueen said:

I'm really enjoying the show.  I watch it for what it is, and don't mentally compare it to it's previous run.  It's like catching up with old friends.  I think they all look great, and are all settling into their new roles quite nicely.  There is no other sitcom on television right now that I enjoy more.

Loved the Karen/Beverly reunion.  They are gold together.

Agreed. The show always crossed the line in being provocative to the point of crass at times and the characters can sometimes be shrill, not much has changed since. But overall I don’t take it too seriously because it’s generally harmless, always silly, and funny, like Absolutely Fabulous. And I’m one of the few who don’t feel Debra Messing is having trouble transitioning back into Grace.

My only criticism is the writers trying to fit 3 plots into a 22-minute show.

  • Love 4
Bridget

Bridget

On 10/29/2017 at 3:24 AM, eXiled said:

I've already done it. I just can't bring myself to watch anymore. I'm bummed because the original remains one of my favorite comedies of all time. I wanted to love this.  I still laugh at reruns I've seen dozens of times. This reboot sucks badly.

Is it just me, or does it seem that Eric McCormack seems to have less to do in this version? Strange, because other than Megan, I think he's the only one who still feels like his character! I know next week will probably have wacky hijinks ensuing with Will & Grace at the office, but I won't be watching as it feels strange. Why would Will work for Grace?

It's not just you! I know this because (please allow me a quick second to get to the shallow end of the pool....) he's so damn good looking and I keep waiting for him to pop up on my TV, yet he's hardly around! As you said so eloquently, he is the only one, other than MM, who makes me feel like I'm watching a new episode from the original run of the show. 

On 10/27/2017 at 6:55 AM, Corgi-ears said:

I feel like we're all friends here, so you guys would tell me if I'm crazy, right? Right?

Because early in the episode, we see Karen in the country club hotel room, and there is a funny portrait on the wall behind her: it's a Westie dressed in a preppy blazer. Which is well and fine, but at the 3:10 mark of the episode, I SWEAR THE WESTIE WINKS. Like so:

TeemingUnselfishCopperbutterfly-size_res

 

 

 

Karen Walker, Beverly Leslie AND a doggie in the same scene? This must be what heaven is like. (I hope!!!) Thank you so much for catching that!

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