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Holmbo

Role Talk: Discuss the show characters!

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A thread for general character talk. Who's your favorite character? Who's had the most interesting development so far?

No book talk or even book hints please,

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My interest in the characters differs a lot. There's no one that I dislike though.

My list from most interesting to least would be something like:
Avasarala, Bobbie and Amos

......
Alex, Naomi, Cotyar and Sadavir (I don't really get what he's up to and I want to know)
and the protomolecule people on Venus (I think they're all gonna be one big shared intelligence down there)

....
Prax, All the other belters (except maybe Diogo cause he's a lot of fun) and Holden (I don't feel like he has any personality)

Edited by Holmbo

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What follows is actor talk, rather than character talk, but it seemed the most appropriate place for something I have to get off my chest. 

I enjoy this series, but there is one actor who almost single-handedly destroys it for me, namely Steven Strait. He is beyond awful. He chews so much of the scenery they must have to rebuild the set after each take.

Edited by Pindrop
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What personality types do you think the main characters are?

If I were to sort them into Myers-Briggs types I'd say:
Holden INFJ
Naomi ISTJ
Amos ISTP
Alex ESFP
Bobbie ISFJ
Avasarala ESTJ
Anna ENFP

Lots of introverts in space :P That makes kinda sense.

As I was going through the list of people in my head it struck me that I'm not actually sure who the main characters will be going forward. How much are we gonna see of Bobbie now that she's of being a marine again? And what about Prax, Errinwright, Drummer? That's not really a topic for this thread. Just a stray thought.

Edited by Holmbo
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6 hours ago, Holmbo said:

As I was going through the list of people in my head it struck me that I'm not actually sure who the main characters will be going forward. How much are we gonna see of Bobbie now that she's of being a marine again? And what about Prax, Errinwright, Drummer? That's not really a topic for this thread. Just a stray thought.

I think that as popular as Bobbie is, we'll see quite a lot of her.  They didn't really have to do the vid-chat, but they did it to check in with Bobbie.  We might check in with Prax, but I doubt it.  His story (and Mei's) has run its course.  He's on Ganymeade growing plants and raising his kid.  Good for him.  Figure Errinwright and Mao are in the Expanse version of Federal stir.  We'll surely being seeing a lot of Drummer since she's in a storyline as a new captain of the ex-Navou.

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Bobbie should be our main POV for anything relating to Mars and the MCRN, now she's been reinstated. I think we'll be seeing a fair bit of her, though admittedly not as much as we see of the four original Roci crew.

They've structured the show now, with major characters in each of the three camps (Avasarala, Bobbie and Naomi), and then Holden, Alex and Amos as spoilers who aren't really tied to anyone.  And at the moment, they're a bit like heroes without a quest, just going to the Ring because they don't have anything else to do.

I'm not sure if we'll ever see Prax again, because the story of finding his daughter is done, and he's unlikely to have any plans to leave Ganymede. There's also the question of Terry Chen's availability. He pops up so often in different things, that I imagine he has a fairly busy schedule.

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1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

They've structured the show now, with major characters in each of the three camps (Avasarala, Bobbie and Naomi), and then Holden, Alex and Amos as spoilers who aren't really tied to anyone.  And at the moment, they're a bit like heroes without a quest, just going to the Ring because they don't have anything else to do.

Actually, Holden, Alex and Amos have their own ties to places.  Holden was born on and has family on Earth.  Ditto Alex for Mars.  Meanwhile, the two most significant relationships we've seen Amos have were both with Belters (Naomi and Prax).

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10 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Actually, Holden, Alex and Amos have their own ties to places.  Holden was born on and has family on Earth.  Ditto Alex for Mars.  Meanwhile, the two most significant relationships we've seen Amos have were both with Belters (Naomi and Prax).

I know where they were born. But they're not tied to any of the political constructs who are at play, here.

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On 2017-10-16 at 9:51 PM, Holmbo said:

My interest in the characters differs a lot. There's no one that I dislike though.

My list from most interesting to least would be something like:
Avasarala, Bobbie and Amos

......
Alex, Naomi, Cotyar and Sadavir (I don't really get what he's up to and I want to know)
and the protomolecule people on Venus (I think they're all gonna be one big shared intelligence down there)

....
Prax, All the other belters (except maybe Diogo cause he's a lot of fun) and Holden (I don't feel like he has any personality)

Hehe it's funny to compare my thoughts now to those in season two. I'm sorry Prax please come back! Or actually, don't come back, stay safe away from this story. Maybe a Skype call?

Also Holden has moved up a bit. It almost like the Roci crew is one character. You can't look at just one of its parts. 

Do you have any favorites and least favorites? 

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My favorite list is top heavy with just about everyone in the cast.  I adore all the Rocis, Bobbie, Avasarala, Drummer.  I even like Ashford who thought he was doing the right thing.  Edited to add snarky protoMiller too.

I intensely dislike Clarissa Mao, who will never be redeemed no matter what she does.  I'm sort of ambivalent about Anna.  Being boring is almost a worse offense on tv than being a murderer with daddy issues.  I do like her growing relationship with Amos though, her becoming an example of morality for him to follow just as Prax was, but her tone is often more patronizing than inspirational to me.

Edited by Haleth
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Is there such a thing as "reverse slash?"  If "slash" is taking two heterosexual characters and putting them together in a homosexual romance, maybe "reverse slash" puts a gay character in a heterosexual romance.  If so, I kind of reverse slash Anna and Amos.  Yes, the married, lesbian Methodist pastor is not going to get together with the violent, semi-psychopath male, but those two are just great interacting together.

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44 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Is there such a thing as "reverse slash?"  If "slash" is taking two heterosexual characters and putting them together in a homosexual romance, maybe "reverse slash" puts a gay character in a heterosexual romance.  If so, I kind of reverse slash Anna and Amos.  Yes, the married, lesbian Methodist pastor is not going to get together with the violent, semi-psychopath male, but those two are just great interacting together.

Maybe a backslash "\".

They were great together in the last two episodes. I like them together because they both know who they are and are confidant in that. Because of that Anna and Amos respect each other, even if they disagree in methods. Neither Anna nor Amos take any grief from anyone -- and especially each other. 

Different topic: The character Drummer is one of the great supporting characters as portrayed by an actor in any TV show -- up there with Tyrion and Niles Crane to me.

Edited by scottiB · Reason: Added the Drummer point.
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4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I intensely dislike Clarissa Mao, who will never be redeemed no matter what she does.

Amen!

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I'm sort of ambivalent about Anna.  Being boring is almost a worse offense on tv than being a murderer with daddy issues. 

LOL.  That's so true.  So the smartest thing the writers did with Anna was to have her follow and take down Clarrissa (Anna as a BAMF!) and then to pair her up with Amos.  Watching Amos size her up was one of the best parts of the season finale.  You can see the moment when he makes his decision about her, telling her "I'm not going to let anyone hurt you."  Oh Amos.  He makes my heart ache.  You just know Prax's daughter decided Amos was HER best friend too.

Edited by WatchrTina

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4 hours ago, Haleth said:

I intensely dislike Clarissa Mao, who will never be redeemed no matter what she does.  I'm sort of ambivalent about Anna.  Being boring is almost a worse offense on tv than being a murderer with daddy issues.  I do like her growing relationship with Amos though, her becoming an example of morality for him to follow just as Prax was, but her tone is often more patronizing than inspirational to me.

I never really disliked Clarissa - just the stuff she did. 

That said, figure she'll be around next season.  Sure, the easy, predictable and even appropriate thing would be that she goes to jail for her crimes, but that's not going to happen.  For one thing, there's no proof.  The crime scene where she killed the one guy blew up.  The guy who planted the Holden message on the Roci is also dead.  There's probably a maybe, possibly, sort of could have circumstantial trial that could eventually be found, but figure there won't be any truly hard evidence.  To be convicted, Clarissa would have to freely and fully confess her actions, which she is likely willing to do.  But there's still one little hitch in that Clarissa Mao just saved the entire fucking human race.

I think Clarissa's real punishment will be to know that she killed all those people for nothing and that she's going to get away with it.  Any crime she could be charged with was committed under Earth's jurisdiction and Chrisjen Avasarala is too ruthlessly clever to fall into the trap of sending the savior of humanity to jail.  Chrisjen has already been accused of persecuting the Mao family.  She's not going to let Clarissa become a martyr for that movement and a tool for her own political enemies.  So Clarissa is going to get a pass for her crimes.

Figure Fred Johnson and Anderson Dawes will clean out potential threats to their control of the Belt by presenting the corpses of people they'll claim were the real culprits who misguidedly tried to co-opt Holden as their spokesperson.  Thus showing that the Belters are no longer the terrorists they've been accused of being.

So, Clarissa's punishment will likely be that she'll be hailed and celebrated as a hero everywhere she goes.  She'll have to smile and be gracious and make speeches while living with the fact that the only reason she was in the position to do what she did to save humanity was because of her evil, horrible choices and action.  There won't be any way to escape.

Well, maybe one way.  There does seem to be a ship crewed by other people who have nowhere else to go.  They call her the Roci...

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He's a shining example of someone given a dangerously one note character and yet brings him absolutely to light.  A guy who is by definition black and white becomes a kaleidoscope by virtue of a great performance.  

Excellent representation of Amos @Captanne!

Wes Chatham brings a lot of nuance to Amos.  Amos is definitely "that guy" but he realizes that he is surrounded by people who are not.  He chooses to be surrounded by people who are not, I think because it gives him less opportunity to do "that guy" things but it doesn't mean he won't if he has to.  I think that's a part of the character that is sort of taken for granted, because he has stayed with the Roci crew, when he could have gone off and done something else.

I was a bit bothered by his attitude towards Naomi leaving the Roci; I understand that he looks for loyalty and possibly consistency with his permanent family but now that I think on it, maybe it wasn't so OOC after all.   He wasn't sure if he could trust Naomi not to leave again.   He may be thinking "this is her home, why would she leave" and it was his way of expressing anger without being "that guy" because he would never be "that guy" with Naomi.   We see how loyal he is by not screwing around with either Monica or her cameraman; they are not family on the Roci and he's not falling for their attempts to manipulate. 

It's really interesting to me how the unexpected pairings with Wes Chatham have worked so well - Terry Chen's Prax and Elizabeth Mitchell's Anna.   Both are characters who would be framed as "good", though I would be curious to see what Amos though of Anna leaving her wife and child behind.

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8 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I'm not sure this really goes here but if you stretch the definition of "character" to include Julie Mao's razorback racing pinnace, here's a faux news video all about it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLkfHoy2E20

Thanks! I like this type of Meta. So much technical detail. I am trying to find one for the Nauvoo.

Edited by marinw

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I will give Ashford credit for cutting through the nerd-jargon.  When the UN scientist is "explaining" to him, Ashford just says, "I don't know what that means, just tell me what you want."  Sean Baek gives him a bit of a look like, "That's a great way to deal with those guiys.  I need to write that down."

Edited by johntfs
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One interesting thing to consider about Klaes Ashford is that he likely had a role with Anderson Dawes similar to that which Drummer had with Fred Johnson.  While Dawes proposed, Ashford was the guy who got his hands dirty (and bloody) disposing.  We never knew Ashford in that role, though we got hints.  Instead who we met was the new Klaes Ashford, the one converted away from doing things the "Belter" way because that way would need to fall by the wayside.  Perhaps it was the horrible death of his child, but Ashford clearly met up with some kind of "come-to-Jesus" moment regarding the Belt and its place in the Solar system.  He was the one who brought Dawes along on the subject of the uniform, the one who instinctively understood what needed to be done to deal with the Inners (shooting at the Roci after the broadcast, inviting the wounded onto the Behemoth).  Even the Martian commander deferred to Ashford's leadership even after seeing him shoot one who'd started to rebel.

As cool as Captain Drummer is, I think Ashford is, in many ways, better suited to the position of Captain of the Behemoth.  Assuming that their positions of injury were reverse, spinning the Drum might have occurred to Drummer, but I don't think inviting the wounded from other ships would have. 

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I just watched all three seasons for the first time (alongside my book reader husband who had previously watched them on his own; we're going to do season 4 together) and I am obsessed with Amos. What a fascinating character that could have gone so many different ways in a different actor's care.

Bobbie and Chrisjen are my two other loves. So $*%&# badass.

I'm excited for season 4 and have zero idea what to expect.

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18 minutes ago, Holmbo said:

You know what? I really liked Holden this season!
Good job Steven and the writers.

Some (myself included) have described James as Space Jon Snow. I would say Steven is a better actor, it took took awhile but he grew on my.

Shallow request: More Shirtless Holden and shirtless Amos please!

Edited by marinw

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I really hate with all my heart Naomi. I couldn’t stand her attitude at the very beginning of the series and ever since she went behind everyone’s back and gave the proto to Fred Johnson I’m over her lying ass

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On 4/1/2020 at 2:24 AM, ProtoBeltaWalla said:

I really hate with all my heart Naomi. I couldn’t stand her attitude at the very beginning of the series and ever since she went behind everyone’s back and gave the proto to Fred Johnson I’m over her lying ass

I'm watching this series for the second time and am also disliking Naomi's self-righteous preachiness after she pulled that crap. She is really getting on my nerves this time around. 

On other note, I love that they have a tall, strong, female actress playing a major role (Bobbie). Totally digging that character (and an actress who isn't wispy size-wise). 

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"Princess Leia, Ellen Ripley, Seven of Nine; they all paved the way for strong female characters in sci fi. But I'm not sure I've ever seen a character quite as deep, complex, and totally badass as The Expanse's Camina Drummer. She is awesome. In today's video we break down her character and explain her role in the Belt and the OPA."

High praise especially when even within this one show there are so many strong female characters. 

[May contain a few mild spoilers; nothing pops to mind]

Edited by JZL
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On 5/5/2020 at 9:11 AM, TurtlePower said:

On other note, I love that they have a tall, strong, female actress playing a major role (Bobbie). Totally digging that character (and an actress who isn't wispy size-wise). 

I just now realized that the tall strong fighter in Agents of SHIELD is also named Bobbi. 

Honestly, if Frankie Adams and Adrianne Palicki wanted to team up and take over the world, I’d welcome our new overlords.

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So what kind of accent is Alex supposed to be using? It's like he's trying for southern/Texas, but it comes and goes. Maybe it's supposed to, but I find it distracting.

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From the beginning, I only liked Amos and Avasarala. That's why I gave up on the show after season 1. Everyone else was so tropey and cliché. The straight white male hero saving the world with his plucky crew,  the noir detective, and a female character that didn't make much sense and is now relegated to a stupid "but he's my son!" plot. And a genius flyboy. Because every Sci-fi show must have one of those.

That hasn't changed. The repeated "we're family" of the Rocinante crew isn't earned in my opinion and I'm very happy they're separated this season. There is very little chemistry between them.

I think Naomi could have been an interesting character for me but the writing for her is just often nonsensical or tropey or leaves me hanging. They could have done so much more with her belter perspective but it barely registers.

After I bought a rather large TV last winter, I tried again because this show looks really good and even better on a bigger screen and I really like the approach to the politics and the physicality of living in space and earth is living with the repercussions of climate change.

I'm really glad it added more interesting characters with Ashford (RIP!), Drummer, and Bobby. But yeah, I'd prefer the show without Naomi, Holden, and Alex.

And now they added another mustache twirling psychopath with Marco (after Burn Gorman's mustache twirling psychopath). Someone like Johnson as the leader of a Belter rebellion of some kind would have been so much more interesting. Or at least someone who has some stakes in this other than I want to blow up the world and I will use the Belter plight as my excuse.

I'm sure Naomi's son (who has no characteristics other than being Naomi's and Marco's son) will save her and the world at the last minute by going down in a blaze of glory and killing his father, thus making up for his mistakes. It's gonna be all very tragic. Please show, prove me wrong!

Edited by supposebly

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On 12/31/2020 at 11:06 AM, Haleth said:

It’s a Texas accent, a common one on Mars. 

Ah. Thanks. As a Texan, I'd call it a "Texas" accent :), but good to know. 

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