S02.E11: Fruit of the Flower

[PrincessPurrsALot]

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Nova and Robert's relationship begins to shift; Ralph Angel feels humiliated by Remy; Hollywood and Violet clash over Hollywood's new friend; Lorna finally reveals the true history of her relationship with Nova and Ralph Angel's father.

[Neurochick]

Dear Vi,

Grow the fuck up, she’s as bad as Ralph Angel.

What generation is Vi from anyway?

[mrsbagnet]

I'm feeling kinda proud of Nova. Opening up with Robert was a big deal for her.

I knew Vi wasn't going to want that dude in her house. Why didn't Hollywood know that? 

Perhaps there is hope for Ralph Angel. For now, he continues to annoy.

Edited October 12, 2017 by mrsbagnet

[Dee]

Ralph Angel is the worst.

[Arcadiasw]

I suspected Vi’s hate for Lorna rubbed off on Nova. I’m glad now Nova knows the truth, she’s not letting that affect her negatively anymore and she’s opening herself up and giving her relationship a chance. It’s sad how people don’t understand or refused to see their dislike of someone can affect other people around them in a bad way. It was very sad watching Nova and Vi's scenes towards the end because Vi doesn't see or want to admit she was wrong in her feelings. You could tell Vi didn't like Nova wasn't agreeing with her way of thinking anymore.

RA is so insecure!! Remy had nothing to apologize for. RA needs to get over himself and stop thinking everyone is out to get him. He constantly gets in his own way. I’ve worked with people like that. It’s so annoying.

Even if the guy at the golf course is the black sheep of the Landry/Bourdreaux, Charley should keep her eyes open at all times doing business with him. 

 

4 hours ago, Neurochick said:

Dear Vi,

Grow the fuck up, she’s as bad as Ralph Angel.

What generation is Vi from anyway?

Our parents’/grandparents’ generation? On one hand, while I don’t agree with Vi’s thinking, I understand where she is coming. She’s from the South and she witnessed a lot of racist and horrible treatment by white people. The Landry/Boudreaux murdered her family for land that not only her ancestors worked on as slaves but land they legally owned that the descendants of their former slave owners tried to illegally get back. It’s not easy for some people of that generation to separate and see not all white people are the same.

 

4 hours ago, mrsbagnet said:

I knew Vi wasn't going to want that dude in her house. Why didn't Hollywood know that? 

Perhaps there is hope for Ralph Angel. For now, he continues to annoy.

Hollywood didn’t know because he’s more open minded than her. An example of their differences through generation or it could be he’s not as observant of Vi on everything. Hollywood has a lot of honor quitting now that Landry's involved in his work financially. Not everyone can do that. If he stayed, it wouldn't be wrong either. Now that he's unemployed, maybe he can help Vi with her pies. 300 pies a week is a lot for one person alone.    

[bichonblitz]

So Vi is racist. That's interesting. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by bichonblitz

[Keepitmoving]

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Our parents’/grandparents’ generation? On one hand, while I don’t agree with Vi’s thinking, I understand where she is coming. She’s from the South and she witnessed a lot of racist and horrible treatment by white people. The Landry/Boudreaux murdered her family for land that not only her ancestors worked on as slaves but land they legally owned that the descendants of their former slave owners tried to illegally get back. It’s not easy for some people of that generation to separate and see not all white people are the same.

And, the Landrys are STILL acting a fool, so I get where this "old" gal who lived Jim Crow is coming from.  That kind of trauma is hard to wash away and to figure out where to put while folks, especially those who haven't lived through that shit in real time go around saying the world isn't the same anymore and things have changed or gotten better. Yeah, BUT... 

That being said, Vi is a hot mess, she really hurt Nova the most by fucking with her head and it was all self-serving. On behalf of Trudy and Trudy/Earnest great love my ass. She was plain old jealous and angry that a woman, a white woman "took" her brother away from her, not Trudy. She maligned Lorna and the woman did absolutely nothing wrong except toward herself in settling for being second best, which she all but admitted to. Any man who takes me out on a first date and proceeds to bring up his great love, who he can't be with because she won't marry him, well that'll be our last date. Nope, my ego can't put up with that.

While we're on the subject of Lorna, I like her, probably because I like Sharon Lawrence too and I think she is actually good for Charlie. I hope to see her again.

Kiki is such a catch, what an adorable, smart, and talented young lady.

Now we come to RA, lord help me LOL, my goodness, what baggage he has.  He "is a know it all" RA! That's what you want in a professor, someone who kinda knows the ALL of a particular subject matter. You want an expert if you're going to shell out 400+ dollars a credit you sensitive ass. I tip my hat to Remy, that was a very loving and patient way to handle the situation. 

RA and Darla have a long road to travel before they will even remotely be ready for marriage. I loved their counseling session, but it will only work if RA gets some introspection into what all his baggage contains and if he's willing to do the work. Half the time I'm thinking is he just lazy? No, that can't be it, he gets out in that field working day in and day out farming the land, that's not a lazy man. So it all goes back to the baggage and it keeps dragging him down.

Edited October 12, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[mrsbagnet]

8 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Even if the guy at the golf course is the black sheep of the Landry/Bourdreaux, Charley should keep her eyes open at all times doing business with him. 

I absolutely agree. If I were Charley,  I wouldn't be letting any Landry, no matter how distant, anywhere near my brand new business. He could be a spy, and even if he's not, do you think Landry is just going to sit back while Charley poaches that big of a customer? He's going to come after her hard, which she doesn't need right now. I know Lorna means well, but she's not from around there, and she doesn't get how any of this works.

 

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

And, the Landrys are STILL acting a fool, so I get where this "old" gal who lived Jim Crow is coming from.  That kind of trauma is hard to wash away and to figure out where to put while folks, especially those who haven't lived through that shit in real time go around saying the world isn't the same anymore and things have changed or gotten better.

Agreed. I wouldn't hold this against Vi at all. Now the thing with Lorna - she was wrong for that.

[Keepitmoving]

22 minutes ago, mrsbagnet said:

 

Agreed. I wouldn't hold this against Vi at all. Now the thing with Lorna - she was wrong for that.

Well it's complex for me because it came off as I don't want that "thing" in my house and that made me cringe. He was a nice guy and just chilling and watching the game with his boss. But even though it came off that way, I don't feel that, that's where her heart was, she's wasn't looking down on him. I also don't think it can be summed up as she just hates white people; but I do think she has a justified fear and mistrust of them, of their intentions. Given her generation, living in Jim Crow south, I understand that fear and mistrust. Her home is a place where she does NOT have to manage her blackness. So she doesn't want anyone,  nor anything in her home that makes her feel that tense feeling of oppression that she will probably walk around with for the rest of her life no matter how many damn pies she sells or 50K checks she gets. 

Now if a qualified white girl comes into that diner and  there's an opening for a job, but she turns her down, then I'm going to seriously side eye her because that is the definition of racism. Because she's doing business with a white man when it comes to her pie business so...

Edited October 12, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Sheenieb]

3 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Now we come to RA, lord help me LOL, my goodness, what baggage he has.  He "is a know it all" RA! That's what you want in a professor, someone who kinda knows the ALL of a particular subject matter. You want an expert if you're going to shell out 400+ dollars a credit you sensitive ass. I tip my hat to Remy, that was a very loving and patient way to handle the situation. 

Yeah, I was rolling my eyes at RA during the classroom scene and his petulance. I did soften a little towards the end when he reconciled with Remy; only because he mentioned how teachers would make him feel throughout his childhood. It's a shame that he didn't have one that was encouraging. Some teachers don't know the power they have. 

RA still a mess, though. 

1 hour ago, mrsbagnet said:

I absolutely agree. If I were Charley,  I wouldn't be letting any Landry, no matter how distant, anywhere near my brand new business. He could be a spy, and even if he's not, do you think Landry is just going to sit back while Charley poaches that big of a customer? He's going to come after her hard, which she doesn't need right now. I know Lorna means well, but she's not from around there, and she doesn't get how any of this works.

Yup. Besides, I doubt working with anyone Landry would go over well with the rest of the farmers. They joined up with Charley because she offered an alternative. Queen Sugar Mill is supposed to be a for us, by us, operation. Bringing in a Landry would be bad for business and optics; not to mention trust.

[LilWharveyGal]

Is anyone else wishing they'd dial down the background music a little bit?  I don't know if my ears are just too sensitive, but it seems like there's music in every scene, and they should just let the acting speak for itself sometimes.

[tennisgurl]

Really interesting episode, but I wanted to share a slightly funny story about this show. 

First of all, I hardly know anyone in the "real" world that watches Queen Sugar. Like, one person who watches regularly, and maybe two that occasionally tune in. I just started a new job, and I was chatting with one of my new co-workers the other day, a co-worker I dont know that well, and I said how I hoped we wouldn't have to work too late because I wanted to go home and catch the new episode of this show called Queen Sugar. Turns out, she watches too! We totally bonded over how RA is both super hot and a super asshole, how much we love how the show is shot, which of Novas love interests she should get with, and debated over her skills at spoken word poetry. Now we have dinner plans for the weekend!

Queen Sugar: Bringing people together since 2016!

[Arcadiasw]

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

 Any man who takes me out on a first date and proceeds to bring up his great love, who he can't be with because she won't marry him, well that'll be our last date. Nope, my ego can't put up with that.

While we're on the subject of Lorna, I like her, probably because I like Sharon Lawrence too and I think she is actually good for Charlie. I hope to see her again.

 

It's not an ego. It's having respect for yourself and knowing your worth.  Now that we got some backstory on Tru, Ernest and Lorna, did Ernest leave Lorna to get back with Tru or were they already divorced when he got back with Tru?

 

5 hours ago, Sheenieb said:

Yup. Besides, I doubt working with anyone Landry would go over well with the rest of the farmers. They joined up with Charley because she offered an alternative. Queen Sugar Mill is supposed to be a for us, by us, operation. Bringing in a Landry would be bad for business and optics; not to mention trust.

With all the black farmers each pulling in less than 1000 acres, that might not be enough for the mill to be financially successful. With the money Charley already invested plus the loan she received she has to make enough profit to get her money back, pay off the loan and finance day to day operations. To do all that, she will need other farmers with a lot of land. Her mother, who obviously knows business like Charley said as much. I don't think all the farmers trust Charley anyway but they are giving her a chance based on Remy and Prosper recommendations and it's offers an alternative than working with Landry.

 

30 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

 Turns out, she watches too! We totally bonded over how RA is both super hot and a super asshole, how much we love how the show is shot, which of Novas love interests she should get with, and debated over her skills at spoken word poetry. Now we have dinner plans for the weekend!

Queen Sugar: Bringing people together since 2016!

Congratulations on your new job and friend!

[Keepitmoving]

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It's not an ego. It's having respect for yourself and knowing your worth.

 

No, I meant my ego, because I think these men think that women don't have egos. But I can see why they do think that way since women IMO tend to forgive all sorts of humiliating behavior from them that they would never forgive in return.  And of course I meant having respect for myself and my self worth, but I thought that went without me having to say it. I mean if I get up from the table and we don't finish the date let alone have a second one because you decided to wax poetic about your great love, then yeah, clearly I and any woman who responded that way IMO would know they're worth more. I just don't know how that's not a turn off and how you don't lose your appetite. But to each his own.

Quote

 

Now that we got some backstory on Tru, Ernest and Lorna, did Ernest leave Lorna to get back with Tru or were they already divorced when he got back with Tru?

 

I don't know, but what was his worth, that he kept crawling back to  a woman who could not love him the way he needed to be loved? Hell, how much you wanna bet that they still weren't married until AFTER RA was born.  Like even with the second kid in the oven she still wanted to wait. 

Yeah, it sure was messy. 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Neurochick]

I’m 57 and I thought Vi was my age.  I guess she’s older.  I still don’t get her though.  The guy was just watching a football game, not going through her drawers.

[Dee]

Every time I try to muster sympathy for Ralph Angel, he reminds me he's a complete idiot. His dig about Charley was totally uncalled for, especially since Charley has done nothing but constantly come to his rescue ever since the Pilot.

Darla better run from him as fast as she can because, baby father or not, he's totally gonna crush her spirit.

That said, Remy is an ass. He definitely doesn't feel comfortable in most situations unless he is in control which he gets away with because he's handsome.

Nova is not built for long term relationships any more than she is for being a parent. The sooner she accepts that, the happier she will be.

Lorna has gotta go. She has a great feel for business, but for all her supposed racial enlightenment, she is completely culturally deaf.

Hollywood is a mess. If he feels that strongly about Violet's health he needs to address it instead of playing host to his co-workers.

[tennisgurl]

RA is just such an entitled dick, and he is so defensive about everything. I do feel for him sometimes, because its clear he is VERY insecure, and he does usually feel bad about the asshole things he does later, but he is still a real pain in the ass to deal with. He and Darla might make it down the aisle, but I dont know how long that will last. Poor Blue. 

On the one hand, I worry about Charlie trusting any member of the Landry family, even one that is supposedly estranged from his family. But on the other hand, they do need the money...

Yeah, Vi does not come off looking good here. At all. I can understand Vi, being from a generation that survived Jim Crow, plus the constant struggle against assholes like the Landry's, being naturally distrustful of white people, but that doesn't justify treating people badly based on the color of their skin. Being wary is understandable, even if its not a nice emotion. Its how you actually treat people where you can rise up or fall apart, and it seems like Vi rather fell apart. Like, the guy watching the game with Hollywood wasn't bothering anyone, and even if she is an old fashioned woman who doesn't like strangers in the house, acting like he was some kind of trespasser, when he was clearly invited over by Hollywood, is very rude. And her past treatment of Lorna is just awful. It seems like she just hated that her brother was with a white women, and she was so angry about that that she basically made up a story about some evil white she devil tempting her brother from a good black women. Worse, it made Charlie feel unwelcome in the family, like some living reminder of a past mistake, and made Nova and RA feel resentment towards their sisters mother, all because of her race. From what we heard, there wasn't really a "bad guy" in this situation, and while Lorna isn't perfect, I dont think she deserves that. 

That all being said, I dont think Vi is some kind of mega racist who cant stand being in a room with white people or anything. We have seen her interact with plenty of white people in her diner and shes as sweet as she is with anyone, I just think she has her prejudices that she doesn't think about very much, and those prejudices would go on to influence the next generation. It did leave to some great Nova scenes where she realizes she had misjudged Lorna and she had to rethink her knowledge of her parents relationship. She also realized that her and her mom had more in common than she thought, and she opened up to Robert more. Way to go Nova! 

I really loved Nova and Charlie talking about clothes and laughing and having a little sister bonding session. 

[Keepitmoving]

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I really loved Nova and Charlie talking about clothes and laughing and having a little sister bonding session. 

I did too and I am glad that Nova no longer has to resent Lorna, because it sucks to be building a nice sisterly bond with her only sister, but to have such negative feelings towards her mother. After all, you wouldn't have that sister if said mother didn't give birth to her. Ugh, Aunt Vi, I will be side eyeing you for some time to come for that fake family history you were peddling to your niece for all these years.

Edited October 13, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Dee]

15 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I really loved Nova and Charlie talking about clothes and laughing and having a little sister bonding session. 

ITA. I loved that for once Charley was the one giving sage advice as a vulnerable Nova soaked it all in.

[Neurochick]

19 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

That all being said, I dont think Vi is some kind of mega racist who cant stand being in a room with white people or anything. We have seen her interact with plenty of white people in her diner and shes as sweet as she is with anyone, I just think she has her prejudices that she doesn't think about very much, and those prejudices would go on to influence the next generation. It did leave to some great Nova scenes where she realizes she had misjudged Lorna and she had to rethink her knowledge of her parents relationship. She also realized that her and her mom had more in common than she thought, and she opened up to Robert more. Way to go Nova! 

I think that is how most people are prejudiced.  Most people aren't mega racists, most wouldn't burn a cross on someone's lawn, but some people do have certain, real world issues.  They might not like certain people in t heir homes, or they might not like a person of another race dating a family member.  

I think Vi's issue with Lorna was, "why would my brother want to be with a white woman, where there are so many great black women around?  What does that say about my brother?  Does he even like black women?"  Lorna's explanation was a good one; she and Ernest wanted the same things, marriage and a family.  Ernest was in love with Tru, but SHE didn't want marriage.  Ernest wanted a certain type of life, Tru didn't want that, so Ernest found someone who wanted what he did.

[Empress1]

Micah and Keke are too cute. When Keke was going on about her influences, I was like "Aww, adorable."

On 10/13/2017 at 2:27 AM, tennisgurl said:

RA is just such an entitled dick, and he is so defensive about everything. I do feel for him sometimes, because its clear he is VERY insecure, and he does usually feel bad about the asshole things he does later, but he is still a real pain in the ass to deal with. He and Darla might make it down the aisle, but I dont know how long that will last. Poor Blue. 

On the one hand, I worry about Charlie trusting any member of the Landry family, even one that is supposedly estranged from his family. But on the other hand, they do need the money...

Yeah, Vi does not come off looking good here. At all. I can understand Vi, being from a generation that survived Jim Crow, plus the constant struggle against assholes like the Landry's, being naturally distrustful of white people, but that doesn't justify treating people badly based on the color of their skin. Being wary is understandable, even if its not a nice emotion. Its how you actually treat people where you can rise up or fall apart, and it seems like Vi rather fell apart. Like, the guy watching the game with Hollywood wasn't bothering anyone, and even if she is an old fashioned woman who doesn't like strangers in the house, acting like he was some kind of trespasser, when he was clearly invited over by Hollywood, is very rude. And her past treatment of Lorna is just awful. It seems like she just hated that her brother was with a white women, and she was so angry about that that she basically made up a story about some evil white she devil tempting her brother from a good black women. Worse, it made Charlie feel unwelcome in the family, like some living reminder of a past mistake, and made Nova and RA feel resentment towards their sisters mother, all because of her race. From what we heard, there wasn't really a "bad guy" in this situation, and while Lorna isn't perfect, I dont think she deserves that. 

That all being said, I dont think Vi is some kind of mega racist who cant stand being in a room with white people or anything. We have seen her interact with plenty of white people in her diner and shes as sweet as she is with anyone, I just think she has her prejudices that she doesn't think about very much, and those prejudices would go on to influence the next generation. It did leave to some great Nova scenes where she realizes she had misjudged Lorna and she had to rethink her knowledge of her parents relationship. She also realized that her and her mom had more in common than she thought, and she opened up to Robert more. Way to go Nova! 

I really loved Nova and Charlie talking about clothes and laughing and having a little sister bonding session. 

I agree with all of this.

On 10/12/2017 at 10:05 AM, Keepitmoving said:

Any man who takes me out on a first date and proceeds to bring up his great love, who he can't be with because she won't marry him, well that'll be our last date. Nope, my ego can't put up with that.

And this. I'd be like, "Well, good luck to you in getting over her, or not, whatever, but I can't with this." I deserve better.

I liked Remy's talk with Ralph Angel at the end. Ralph Angel's entitlement is really, really a lot, though.

[jhlipton]

20 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Micah and Keke are too cute. When Keke was going on about her influences, I was like "Aww, adorable."

I am ashamed to say that I didn't know any of the names she cited.  Could you posy a few of them so I can look them up?  Thanks.

[Happytobehere]

On 10/12/2017 at 0:39 PM, Keepitmoving said:

Well it's complex for me because it came off as I don't want that "thing" in my house and that made me cringe. He was a nice guy and just chilling and watching the game with his boss. But even though it came off that way, I don't feel that, that's where her heart was, she's wasn't looking down on him. I also don't think it can be summed up as she just hates white people; but I do think she has a justified fear and mistrust of them, of their intentions. Given her generation, living in Jim Crow south, I understand that fear and mistrust. Her home is a place where she does NOT have to manage her blackness. So she doesn't want anyone,  nor anything in her home that makes her feel that tense feeling of oppression that she will probably walk around with for the rest of her life no matter how many damn pies she sells or 50K checks she gets. 

Now if a qualified white girl comes into that diner and  there's an opening for a job, but she turns her down, then I'm going to seriously side eye her because that is the definition of racism. Because she's doing business with a white man when it comes to her pie business so...

I’m sorry but Vi is right about Holywood’s co-worker.  Something isn’t right with him and I dont believe he has good intentions towards Hollywood 

RA is jealous that other people are “know it alls” because he is the ultimate know nothing.

Still not interested in Charley’s mother.  Her lack of self-esteem still doesn’t change the fact that we have seen little indication that Ernest loved Nova the way he loved Charley and his crap son.  People can’t blame Vi for that.  Nova felt unloved by her father and the fact that he did nothing to dissuade her of the feeling while he was alive and his personal belongings found in the aftermath of his death only confirmed Nova’s feelings speak volumes.

[Dee]

For someone who was so traumatized by his recent run-in with the police, he resorted to violence and skipping school, Micah has re-adjusted fairly quickly.

[Empress1]

7 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I am ashamed to say that I didn't know any of the names she cited.  Could you posy a few of them so I can look them up?  Thanks.

Kara Walker (whose work I love - she taught at Columbia while I was there, which I thought was so cool even though I'm not an artist), Faith Ringgold, Kerry James Marshall, Glenn Ligon, Noah Davis.

[rozen]

Charley needs bigger farmers, yes, but with bigger paychecks comes less control. If she starts recruiting farmers with an order of magnitude more farmland than the black farmers, they are going to expect things to cater to them, that's just how it is. Even if the Landry's don't stick a mole in there, she's going to be stuck between the big farms that are aware of her previous cutthroat business persona and will expect her to play ball, and little farmers who thinks she's a bougie bitch trying to work out her midlife crisis. I like her mom being around because she is the only character who has constantly pointed out that Charley does not have infinite pockets, which everyone else on this shows seems to take as a given. Charley is building a business from the ground up while in the middle of a messy divorce, and she's still paying RA's bills while he pretends to be a man.

Speaking of that dipshit, seriously, get hit by a bus and let Darla take over the farming half of the show. I was embarrassed for him during that childish showboating in front of Remy. Also telling that Remy has way more compassion for his bro than for Charley, who was and is under way more stress. Everyone and they mama, including crotchety-ass Prosper, has gone out of their way to pick up after this boy and he stays crying about how hard he has it. He has no ability to deal with adversity whatsoever. And Micah is the soft one? Boy, bye. Darla way out-classes him, and he knows it. Every step she takes towards being functional and self-supporting, he's going to drag her back, because he knows he can't keep her unless she's broken and weighed down.

No wonder Lorna looked like she was about to go off on everyone in every scene. She seriously got the short end of the stick, and gets treated like the devil incarnate by the whole family. Glad she got that off her chest, and maybe will have some peace with Vi. Everyone was so busy heaping emotional guilt on her, Lorna didn't even have room to breathe and grieve for her trifling ex-husband. At least the whole story being revealed made Nova take a look at herself. But based on her facial expression when Robert (?) hugged her, she's still not on board with this relationship. I think she intrinsically hates the feeling of being equally yoked with someone. 

*Shrug* Aunti Vi's house, Aunt Vi's rules. Baseball cap can file his complaint to centuries of institutionalized racism. Aunt Vi will never be her full, 100% authentic self, around white folks, and her home is her sanctuary. So, yes, white folks can't be there with no notice. Life did that to her, she's just living with it. Not every black person on this earth has to be forgiving of all the shit they had to go through just to survive. He can eat her pie at the High Yella like everyone else, shit. 

 

*Was I the only one that thought the Landry 14-times removed farmer at the golf course was hot as hell? Because he was hot as hell.

Edited October 16, 2017 by rozen

[mrsbagnet]

3 hours ago, rozen said:

Speaking of that dipshit, seriously, get hit by a bus and let Darla take over the farming half of the show. I was embarrassed for him during that childish showboating in front of Remy. Also telling that Remy has way more compassion for his bro than for Charley, who was and is under way more stress. Everyone and they mama, including crotchety-ass Prosper, has gone out of their way to pick up after this boy and he stays crying about how hard he has it. He has no ability to deal with adversity whatsoever. And Micah is the soft one? Boy, bye. Darla way out-classes him, and he knows it. Every step she takes towards being functional and self-supporting, he's going to drag her back, because he knows he can't keep her unless she's broken and weighed down.

No wonder Lorna looked like she was about to go off on everyone in every scene. She seriously got the short end of the stick, and gets treated like the devil incarnate by the whole family. Glad she got that off her chest, and maybe will have some peace with Vi. Everyone was so busy heaping emotional guilt on her, Lorna didn't even have room to breathe and grieve for her trifling ex-husband. At least the whole story being revealed made Nova take a look at herself. But based on her facial expression when Robert (?) hugged her, she's still not on board with this relationship. I think she intrinsically hates the feeling of being equally yoked with someone.

...

*Was I the only one that thought the Landry 14-times removed farmer at the golf course was hot as hell? Because he was hot as hell

Ralph Angel tries Darla at every turn. I'm wondering when enough will be enough for her. Remy, too, has a ton of patience with him. He apologized to RA when he had done NOTHING wrong. Does RA not get how school works? The professor knows more than you, and he explains stuff. I get it - he's had bad school experiences, but Remy is his lifelong friend. How could he think that Remy was trying to make him look bad? So tiresome.

Thank you for your perspective on Lorna. I never really thought about the emotional toll on her, though I did notice her look of relief at Vi's feeble attempt at making amends.

I think the relationship with Robert scares the crap out of Nova. That hug was telling - he was hugging her much more deeply than she was hugging him. This relationship is too real for her. She has a lot of things to work through before she's going to give her all to a relationship.

I'm not sure I'd say hot as hell, but he was definitely more attractive than the other middle-aged men we've seen on the show thus far. He had perfect politician hair, which always frightens me a little. It's a reflex.

Edited October 16, 2017 by mrsbagnet

[Dee]

I wonder if Nova's resemblance to Trudy, is the reason Ernest was distant towards her.

[mrsbagnet]

7 hours ago, Dee said:

I wonder if Nova's resemblance to Trudy, is the reason Ernest was distant towards her.

 No doubt Nova's free-spirited nature reminded him of the painful parts of his relationship with Trudy.

[Keepitmoving]

14 hours ago, Dee said:

I wonder if Nova's resemblance to Trudy, is the reason Ernest was distant towards her.

But this wouldn't make any sense to me seeing as in the end he got his true love Trudy to marry him when they had that second child. So, if anything he should be closer to the daughter who may have resembled his true love. It would be one thing if he never got to live out his days with Trudy and Trudy went and married someone else, but that wasn't the case. I mean, usually if your one true love dies, one tends to be thankful that they at least have a piece/pieces of that loved one through the children they shared. 

Nope, he was distant from Nova because Nova had a story in her head, left home, and didn't bother to visit, and I don't blame her for feeling the way she did based on the info. she had. Then according to her, he would pressure her on when she was going to give him grandchildren, etc... that's what she told Aunt Vi in the episode where they found out from RA that he was left the land.  So she felt like she was a disappointment, so she didn't come around. 

Now I don't know what happened while Nova was growing up and how often Earnest called or visited, and I'd like those details. I'm thinking it wasn't often enough so...that's on him, not Aunt Vi. And I don't get the sense that Trudy would have stood in the way of him seeing his daughter, even Nova said she doesn't remember her mom talking bad about Lorna. I'd like to know at what age would Nova have been when Earnest came back? And, how often did she see him when he was married to Lorna?

Edited October 16, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Clanstarling]

On 10/15/2017 at 8:19 AM, Happytobehere said:

Still not interested in Charley’s mother.  Her lack of self-esteem still doesn’t change the fact that we have seen little indication that Ernest loved Nova the way he loved Charley and his crap son.  People can’t blame Vi for that.  Nova felt unloved by her father and the fact that he did nothing to dissuade her of the feeling while he was alive and his personal belongings found in the aftermath of his death only confirmed Nova’s feelings speak volumes.

I didn't like Lorna, but I thought this episode gave her some depth and made me at least sympathize with her. Nova's issues about Ernest are on him, not Lorna.

22 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

But this wouldn't make any sense to me seeing as in the end he got his true love Trudy to marry him when they had that second child. So, if anything he should be closer to the daughter who may have resembled his true love. It would be one thing if he never got to live out his days with Trudy and Trudy went and married someone else, but that wasn't the case. I mean, usually if your one true love dies, one tends to be thankful that they at least have a piece/pieces of that loved one through the children they shared. 

Nope, he was distant from Nova because Nova had a story in her head, left home, and didn't bother to visit, and I don't blame her for feeling the way she did based on the info. she had. Then according to her, he would pressure her on when she was going to give him grandchildren, etc... that's what she told Aunt Vi in the episode where they found out from RA that he was left the land.  So she felt like she was a disappointment, so she didn't come around. 

Now I don't know what happened while Nova was growing up and how often Earnest called or visited, and I'd like those details. I'm thinking it wasn't often enough so...that's on him, not Aunt Vi. And I don't get the sense that Trudy would have stood in the way of him seeing his daughter, even Nova said she doesn't remember her mom talking bad about Lorna. I'd like to know at what age would Nova have been when Earnest came back? And, how often did she see him when he was married to Lorna?

I agree that we don't know enough about what happened while Nova was a child - and what put the distance between them. I wonder, what does RA think about Lorna (though God knows, I don't really want to see yet another thing RA gets worked up about). 

A little late to the chat, for some reason my DVR didn't pick up this episode and I had to wait for it to be OnDemand. And the guide is showing episode 12 from season 1 instead of this season for the next episode. Have no clue what's going on.

I do agree that Vi has a right to feel comfortable in her own home. But Hollywood did ask - and she must know that not all of his crew is black. She assumed Hollywood understood her unspoken rule - and that never ends well.

[Drumpf1737]

On 10/12/2017 at 8:09 PM, Neurochick said:

I’m 57 and I thought Vi was my age.  I guess she’s older.  I still don’t get her though.  The guy was just watching a football game, not going through her drawers.

I'm 47 and every time one of my white friends comes to my house the cultural differences almost stomp around the room. I think those differences morph into something like distaste for some folks who feel they shouldn't have to teach. What some black people consider basic manners, other cultures are like "Is the Queen coming?"

Does anyone else think the Landry relative was using "black sheep" in a very specific way? Total speculation on my part, but what if his ancestor was "passing" and that's why his branch of the family tree is considered the "black sheep"?

I've suggested to teacher bae that the stereotype of black people being anti-education/anti-book (similar to Chris Rock's now infamous standup) is due to our always being perceived as dumb. If you ask a question and a teacher, especially a white teacher, does that thing where they think they're challenging you, but all you feel is embarrassed, I can easily see that morphing into a hatred for learning and school. Just my personal theory; doesn't excuse RA's terrible disposition.

Nova and Robert are so lovely together. I really hope Lorna and Vi's revelations bring Charley and Nova closer.

[Dee]

Nova and Charley are very close. Ralph Angel is the one who is left out.

[mrsbagnet]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

A little late to the chat, for some reason my DVR didn't pick up this episode and I had to wait for it to be OnDemand. And the guide is showing episode 12 from season 1 instead of this season for the next episode. Have no clue what's going on.

I noticed the same thing - the episode numbers were off last week, and the numbers for this week are completely wrong. I had to set my DVR to record whatever was showing in the 10pm slot, no matter what the guide said. It looks like the wrong programming info was sent out to the TV listings services.

[Clanstarling]

17 hours ago, Drumpf1737 said:

Does anyone else think the Landry relative was using "black sheep" in a very specific way? Total speculation on my part, but what if his ancestor was "passing" and that's why his branch of the family tree is considered the "black sheep"?

The thought did enter my mind.

Thanks @mrsbagnet, I'll manually record the episode that has the wrong data but is in the right slot.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Clanstarling

[AgentRXS]

My DVR didn't record this episode either. Just caught up on it tonight.

I really liked the Trudy/Ernest/Lorna revelations. I love that no one really turned out to be the villain of the piece. Its sad that Lorna settled to be the Betty to Trudy's Veronica but hey, she went into that marriage knowing full well she wasn't the love of Ernest's life. She had to know it wouldn't last. At least he was up front with her about it all and it was up to her to continue with the relationship. I couldn't do it, but to each their own.

On 10/15/2017 at 9:10 PM, rozen said:

*Shrug* Aunti Vi's house, Aunt Vi's rules. Baseball cap can file his complaint to centuries of institutionalized racism. Aunt Vi will never be her full, 100% authentic self, around white folks, and her home is her sanctuary. So, yes, white folks can't be there with no notice. Life did that to her, she's just living with it. Not every black person on this earth has to be forgiving of all the shit they had to go through just to survive. He can eat her pie at the High Yella like everyone else, shit. 

Yup. This is how I feel about it too.  Everyone has the right to deny or allow whoever they want into their home,whether anyone else agrees with their decisions or not. Hollywood should know Vi better by now to know who is allowed in her home. Given what we've seen so far on this show, and the fact that Vi grew up in this environment, who can blame her? It seems almost every white person is related to a Landry in this parish. I don't blame her for wanting her home to be off-limits to them.