GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[cmahorror]

Going through old Scrubs clips and I always loved this one.

Patrick: This is not about my ego.

Robin: It's not?

Patrick: No.

Robin: Since when?

Patrick: Okay, so maybe it's a little bit about my ego but I don't like to be wrong - like somebody else I know.

[HeatLifer]

Lol. Lol. Patrick threatened to slap Jason. 

I miss them. The hospital isn't the same. And there are no other pairings who do the banter/fighting as well as they did.

[cmahorror]

And the follow up scenes where she gives Matt a talking to after he has a failure with a patient and wonders why they, as doctors, even try.

 

 

Robin: I'm literally a living example of all of the advancements that have been made in HIV and AIDS drug protocols. I'm literally the reason we get up after we fail and we keep going and we keep pushing for answers. If we give up, how can we expect our patients to believe in us?

[HeatLifer]

Girl, you're giving me life with these clips! I haven't seen some of these in awhile. I love Patrick's proud hubby expression and Matt's "I got nothing after that verbal beatdown." Heh. 

[TeeVee329]

Question - has Kevin ever been shot before, on GH or "Port Charles".  I mean, he must have, right lol?

[UYI]

2 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Question - has Kevin ever been shot before, on GH or "Port Charles".  I mean, he must have, right lol?

I'm not sure. I do know Ryan kidnapped him before Mac & Felicia's non wedding in 1994 and took his place as Mac's best man, strapping a bomb to himself (Kevin broke free and interrupted the wedding). 

[LegalParrot81]

3 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Question - has Kevin ever been shot before, on GH or "Port Charles".  I mean, he must have, right lol?

He was stabbed by a psycho ex-doctor who read Kevin's mystery novel and thought it would be cool to recreate those murders in real life.

Edited July 29, 2016 by LegalParrot81

[ulkis]

This is random,  but I was thinking about the dialogue and this scene exemplifies how good it was, imo. Lucky had come to the Spencer house to give Laura back money she used to get him out of lock-up, and he finds Nikolas there baby-sitting Lulu. I think I've posted this before, don't care. :)

Nikolas: YOUR MOTHER JUST LEFT. SHE SOUNDED LIKE IT HAD SOMETHING TO DO WITH YOU.

Lucky: YEAH. YEAH. I SAW HER. MOMMY HAD TO PAY FOR MY BAD BEHAVIOR. YEAH. I GUESS SHE LIKES TO DO THAT THOUGH. ALL RIGHT. I THOUGHT I'D PAY HER BACK. GO. [Pause] SO, YOU MOVED INTO MY ROOM YET?

Nikolas: I DON'T WANT TO FIGHT WITH YOU RIGHT NOW, LUCKY.

Lucky: YOU'RE PARANOID, MAN. I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, WE MAY NOT HAVE OUR OWN LAKE, OUR OWN STABLES, OUR OWN GUARDS, BUT IF YOUR UNCLE'S GOING TO BE HAVING HIS MAIL FORWARDED TO ATTICA, YOU MAY NEED A NEW ADDRESS, TOO.

Nikolas: HE'S IN JAIL BECAUSE YOUR FATHER PUT HIM THERE, LUCKY.

Lucky: REALLY? MY DAD FRAMED YOUR UNCLE? OH! WELL, YOU DON'T SEE ME ARGUING, DO YOU? WELL, YOU SEE, THIS WHOLE SHERLOCK HOLMES POWERS OF DEDUCTION THING, I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO DO YOU ANY GOOD, 'CAUSE YOU SEE, CHARGES DON'T STICK TO MY DAD. SO I KNOW YOU GOT SOMETHING UP YOUR SLEEVE.

Nikolas: WHY DO YOU BLAME LAURA FOR WHAT YOUR FATHER DID TO HER?

Lucky: WELL, HE COULDN'T HAVE GOTTEN AWAY WITH IT IF SHE DIDN'T SAY IT WAS OK. WHAT DO YOU CARE?

Nikolas: I MEAN, REALLY. OK. ALL RIGHT. SO YOU'RE THE ONE SHE PICKED. YOU'RE THE ONE SHE MADE ROOM FOR IN HER LIFE, BUT BECAUSE SHE'S NOT IN EXCRUCIATING PAIN, YOU WANT TO HURT HER. IS THAT HOW THE LOGIC GOES, SOMETHING LIKE THAT?

Best part may have been Lucky's "no! My dad framed your uncle?" Before finding out about the rape he would have cheered his dad on but after that he neutrally observes that Luke gets away with crap. And when before he would and did flip at finding Nik in the house he joked around about Nik moving in.

I will say, even during the Larry years (aka GV Lucky) the show always did a good job (and I suppose TG and JJ) showing that the tension from finding about the rape never went away.

[HeatLifer]

Lucky finding out about the rape was his character's turning point. It's what ultimately changed the course of his life and his relationships, IMO.

[HeatLifer]

DP.

Edited July 30, 2016 by HeatLifer

[dubbel zout]

49 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

Lucky finding out about the rape was his character's turning point. It's what ultimately changed the course of his life and his relationships, IMO.

He worshiped Luke up to finding out about the rape, and the scales really fell from his eyes after that. It was a very harsh but very necessary realization that Luke was a flawed human being, not some perfect superhero.

[ulkis]

4 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

Lucky finding out about the rape was his character's turning point. It's what ultimately changed the course of his life and his relationships, IMO.

Definitely, but it still kinda impresses me that they managed to have that underlying knowledge always with him. Other characters have turning points like that too but they eventually away a lot of the time. 

Edited July 30, 2016 by ulkis

[HeatLifer]

That's true. It's not that common, at least in the last decade of the soap genre, for writers to really take care and put time into preserving certain aspects and characteristics of characters. It's all very surface-y now and just about moving a CURRENT plot forward.

On another note, I just saw a clip of Robin at the 2000 NB and LOL'd at her saying she lost all respect for Sonny and asking Carly what happened to her being in love with Jason. She gave 0 fucks.

[Melgaypet]

ulkis, I remember that scene between Lucky and Nikolas SO WELL. In fact, you inspired me to go looking for a clip and I found it. The part you transcribed starts at 18:45, but there's a lot of good stuff before that, including a scene between Nikolas and Laura that I loved:

 

Edited August 1, 2016 by Melgaypet
Punctuation is good.

[ulkis]

3 hours ago, Melgaypet said:

ulkis, I remember that scene between Lucky and Nikolas SO WELL. In fact, you inspired me to go looking for a clip and I found it. The part you transcribed starts at 18:45, but there's a lot of good stuff before that, including a scene between Nikolas and Laura that I loved:

 

 

Yay! Thank you! I went looking for it but couldn't find it.

[HeatLifer]

I forgot how much Baby Michael loved KMc. There was a scene where she sat down and he legit leaped out of Steve's arms to her and Steve was like, "Oh, he wants to go to you now! Really!" Ha.*

*Used real names bc it was clearly an adlib. I miss when the actors were able to do that.

[Asp Burger]

Jax history question: Am I remembering correctly that Show undermined him when he was with She Who Shall Not Be Named, even though on paper he appeared to hold the high cards, as she was cheating on him with Nikolas? I had a random memory of him saying something really gross to SWSNBN, something about her "spreading [her] legs." A lot of people were shocked at the time that the line was coming out of gentlemanly Jax's mouth, when it would have been over the line even for Sonny. Anyone?  I just remember that it seemed Show wanted us to find Hulkamania, Brother (the overly-developed-looking SWSNBN and Nikolas as they appeared at the time) the sympathetic ones in the story.  

Edited August 5, 2016 by Asp Burger

[Oracle42]

Aww, I miss the days when I only loathed Nik for being a sleazy, POS manwhore and the other half of Nem. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Oracle42

[Cobalt Stargazer]

9 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Jax history question: Am I remembering correctly that Show undermined him when he was with She Who Shall Not Be Named, even though on paper he appeared to hold the high cards, as she was cheating on him with Nikolas? I had a random memory of him saying something really gross to SWSNBN, something about her "spreading [her] legs." A lot of people were shocked at the time that the line was coming out of gentlemanly Jax's mouth, when it would have been over the line even for Sonny. Anyone?  I just remember that it seemed Show wanted us to find Hulkamania, Brother (the overly-developed-looking SWSNBN and Nikolas as they appeared at the time) the sympathetic ones in the story.  

Let's not forget that not only was Toonces cheating on Jax, Nikolas was cheating on Emily for not immediately recovering after being violated by a dude who looked just like him. Calvin? I didn't care about Emily any more than the next person who didn't care about Emily, but Nikolas was such a dillhole that she could have set him on fire and I wouldn't have given a shit. Having said that, yes, Nik and SWMNBM were painted as the sympathetic parties, and then he knocked her up with Spencer. After that, it must have been no problem to set his sights on Liz.

[Asp Burger]

I think the Nikolas doppelganger was Connor.  Lord, that was a notably dumb story, in a period of the show that had many. 

[UYI]

Not only that, Tyler and Natalia were a RL couple then, so he had to pretend to rape his RL girlfriend on TV. Nice. *barf* 

[Tiger]

14 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I think the Nikolas doppelganger was Connor.  Lord, that was a notably dumb story, in a period of the show that had many. 

But the actress who played the wife was so good!

[Ambrosefolly]

38 minutes ago, Tiger said:

But the actress who played the wife was so good!

Not only was that story dumb, it was also incredibly offensive to the military. I think Guza's original inspiration was seeing a story on military wives, but it quickly derailed (like so many Guza stories). Originally, a grief stricken Mary convinced amnesiac Nik that he was her  deceased husband, who died in combat. It wasn't noble, but Mary was presented as being conflicted about the terrible thing she was doing (and she knew it was terrible) and being in a hellalot of pain and loneliness , that wasn't the offensive part. Nor was it when Mary was discovered and Nik got his memories back and returned to Umily. Apparently "crazy" Mary full on believed that Nik was Connor and went on a killing spree, where the murder of a black teenager was treated as a joke (and he was killed in the Q house) and Lorenzo lost his niece, even though Mary was presented as someone with a conscious. Mary was captured and self righteous Umily and everyone else went on a tour to Mary's room to tell her how terrible she was and how Nik was totally not Connor, and she ended up murdered in her bed. I have to give major props to Catherine Wadkins who smoothly navigated Guza's schizophrenic writing of her character and put every other actor on the show to shame that year.

Cut to a few weeks later, when Connor Bishop showed up alive, well and AWOL and looking exactly like Nik, which no one commented on how Mary might not have been that crazy or evil in the first place if Nik looked exactly like her husband. Then they turned him into a rapist who was killed by Umily, thus concluding Guza's tribute to the Armed Forces of America. 

[Tiger]

8 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Not only was that story dumb, it was also incredibly offensive to the military. I think Guza's original inspiration was seeing a story on military wives, but it quickly derailed (like so many Guza stories). Originally, a grief stricken Mary convinced amnesiac Nik that he was her  deceased husband, who died in combat. It wasn't noble, but Mary was presented as being conflicted about the terrible thing she was doing (and she knew it was terrible) and being in a hellalot of pain and loneliness , that wasn't the offensive part. Nor was it when Mary was discovered and Nik got his memories back and returned to Umily. Apparently "crazy" Mary full on believed that Nik was Connor and went on a killing spree, where the murder of a black teenager was treated as a joke (and he was killed in the Q house) and Lorenzo lost his niece, even though Mary was presented as someone with a conscious. Mary was captured and self righteous Umily and everyone else went on a tour to Mary's room to tell her how terrible she was and how Nik was totally not Connor, and she ended up murdered in her bed. I have to give major props to Catherine Wadkins who smoothly navigated Guza's schizophrenic writing of her character and put every other actor on the show to shame that year.

Cut to a few weeks later, when Connor Bishop showed up alive, well and AWOL and looking exactly like Nik, which no one commented on how Mary might not have been that crazy or evil in the first place if Nik looked exactly like her husband. Then they turned him into a rapist who was killed by Umily, thus concluding Guza's tribute to the Armed Forces of America. 

Dont forget attempted rapist Logan, terrorist ally Cooper, and mobbie guy on Nightshift.  Guza clearly hates the men and women and their spouses that serve our country.

Catherine Wadkins, thank you!  The story was awful but she was so damned good.  I cant believe she hasnt worked much since then.  

Do you remember when they opposite The Olympics in '04, we had two weeks of Mary terrorizing Mac, Felicia, and the teens in the Q manse?   I distinctly remember being overjoyed that not only was Felicia back, but that the drag four were off-screen for two whole weeks!

[HeatLifer]

Me after I watch the scene where Jason drops Robin off at Yale: 

http://giphy.com/gifs/sad-crying-how-i-met-your-mother-Ndb82bzY0VsiY

[ulkis]

Did Jax/Brenda really even remotely have as big a fanbase as Sonny/Brenda before Benard left the first time? She married him out of nowhere. It seems to me the rooting value was still more on Sonny's side till MB left (seemingly, sigh) for good.

[HeatLifer]

5 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Did Jax/Brenda really even remotely have as big a fanbase as Sonny/Brenda before Benard left the first time? She married him out of nowhere. It seems to me the rooting value was still more on Sonny's side till MB left (seemingly, sigh) for good.

No, there were always more S&B fans. And, yep, it took a hit when he left her at the altar, though, and she went crazy. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by HeatLifer

[Harmony233]

Speaking of Logan didn't Logan have some secret about when he was in the military did we ever find it out?I can't remeber

[UYI]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

Did Jax/Brenda really even remotely have as big a fanbase as Sonny/Brenda before Benard left the first time? She married him out of nowhere. It seems to me the rooting value was still more on Sonny's side till MB left (seemingly, sigh) for good.

 

I've always had the impression they were pretty equal during the 1996-1998 triangle peak, but the S&B fanbase remained larger as the hopes of J&Bers dwindled over the years, which doesn't surprise me--when you think you have a better chance of getting your couple, as S&Bers clearly do*, you're going to remain more active! 

*They are most likely going to end up together whenever the show ends. You know Vanessa would drop everything for that. 

Edited August 8, 2016 by UYI

[Ambrosefolly]

53 minutes ago, Harmony233 said:

Speaking of Logan didn't Logan have some secret about when he was in the military did we ever find it out?I can't remeber

Yeah, I think it was in his military records that Ric was using to blackmail him with (or maybe that was Cooper). And yes, Ric blackmailing someone with something in government documents doesn't make any sense.

[dubbel zout]

23 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Ric blackmailing someone with something in government documents doesn't make any sense.

That was hilarious. They could have just made Logan a member of Special Forces and that would have explained it. But no, instead we got Ric blackmailing Logan with records that weren't classified in the first place. So dumb.

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

I've always had the impression they were pretty equal during the 1996-1998 triangle peak, but the S&B fanbase remained larger as the hopes of J&Bers dwindled over the years, which doesn't surprise me--when you think you have a better chance of getting your couple, as S&Bers clearly do*, you're going to remain more active! 

*They are most likely going to end up together whenever the show ends. You know Vanessa would drop everything for that. 

Well, there was no triangle in 1998. MB was gone and they went full-steam ahead with Brenda/Jax, and they even had a big huge scene (forgive me if you already know this) where Brenda ran slo-mo to Jax after he and Sonny (MB came back for a week or so) emerged from a burning building to emphasize Brenda wasn't just choosing Jax because Sonny wasn't around.

But people are always talking about the Sonny/Brenda/Jax feud online and I just don't think in 96-97 it could have been that even. Jax was a newbie who showed up and honestly if I were watching at the time I probably would have found Jax a Gary Stu kind of to boot. I just have a hard time seeing Jax and Brenda building up a fan base that quickly, I mean, one as large as Sonny and Brenda's. 

[HeatLifer]

LOL, and then Robin ran to Sonny. True love.

[Lobsel Vith]

On June 18, 2016 at 7:20 PM, Chairperson Meow said:

Here's a challenge.  What's Jason's exact body count?  Bonus points for names.  Triple bonus points for his entire rap street.  

Well, Guza surrogate / Original Recipe Franco said Jason murdered over a thousand people like it was the coolest thing in the world. I guess Guza didn't care about the moral implications of Jason murdering so many people, particularly given our knowledge that he threatened Diego's mother for being a witness and he planned to murder Dante for being a cop.

[jsbt]

The way I remember it is that while GH definitely went back to the Sonny/Brenda well early and often, they also committed to Jax and Brenda. Guza set that up, having inherited the Jax character from Claire Labine who had intended him to be a spoiler for Ned and Lois. They put him with V., who was popular but got dumped (I think by Wendy Riche), but they kept him in play with Brenda. And when Maurice left they really evolved Jax/Brenda and I felt they made them equal if not moreso. I remember Guza pushing it very hard in the press and insisting the Sonny/Brenda era was done. They presented a Brenda who had evolved past Sonny, and backed it up in the writing (including the great scenes they did where bearded Sonny was all fucked up on his island, IIRC, and they got closure).

Of course, when Vanessa returned years later they threw that all away. Jax had become the goat and stayed that way. In a way it is a very human regression - it's not difficult to see Sonny and Brenda as two people in each other's blood despite the better choices they make over the years, and then foolishly walk away from.

[UYI]

Wasn't there a rumor that Mo, Vanessa, and Guza all agreed that whenever GH ended (had Guza still been there at the end), that Sonny & Brenda would absolutely end up together? I guess Guza eventually changed his mind on S&B being over. And even with him gone, I can still see Mo & Vanessa pushing for an ending like that.

[ulkis]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

Wasn't there a rumor that Mo, Vanessa, and Guza all agreed that whenever GH ended (had Guza still been there at the end), that Sonny & Brenda would absolutely end up together? I guess Guza eventually changed his mind on S&B being over. And even with him gone, I can still see Mo & Vanessa pushing for an ending like that.

I think Vanessa has said that (that S&B should end up together), but I forget if she said it was agreed upon. 

[dubbel zout]

I would love to see how that would play out with Carly (LW's Carly, especially) still married to Sonny. 

[UYI]

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I would love to see how that would play out with Carly (LW's Carly, especially) still married to Sonny. 

I really do believe that if Vanessa says yes to returning for the show's finale (and make no mistake, she will), the show would not hesitate to drop Carly like a hot potato in favor of Brenda. Carly will only end up with Sonny if Vanessa somehow doesn't return, and I guarantee you, Vanessa would run through a burning building for that. 

[ulkis]

I dunno. Then what would they do with Carly? Reunite her with Jax?

[HeatLifer]

 And when Maurice left they really evolved Jax/Brenda

Basically. Mo had to leave and the show had to completely trash (like, stomp on and set on fire) Sonny/Brenda for Jax/Brenda to be taken seriously.

[ulkis]

And then VM left in September so it all kinda ended really abruptly as well. The actress they got to play her mom was good.

[UYI]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I dunno. Then what would they do with Carly? Reunite her with Jax?

 

I could see that. She'll end up with somebody. The show won't let her end up living behind a dumpster, even if she should. 

[ulkis]

Heh. But if Sonny doesn't up behind a dumpster, Carly shouldn't either.

[HeatLifer]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

And then VM left in September so it all kinda ended really abruptly as well. The actress they got to play her mom was good.

Yeah, that was a crazy time. Everyone started leaving and storylines were being twisted every which way.

Edited August 10, 2016 by HeatLifer

[UYI]

I like the montage they gave Brenda when she "died". The Judge Judy promo bug near the end here brings some unintentional humor, though.

[HeatLifer]

They'll probs have Carly end up with Jax. Or clinging to a picture of a 20-something Jason screaming WHYYYYY?!?!

[UYI]

2 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

They'll probs have Carly end up with Jax. Or clinging to a picture of a 20-something Jason screaming WHYYYYY?!?!

 

[HeatLifer]

Bwah. Although Robin was totes the Nancy Kerrigan in #CarlysWorld.

[Bishop]

For LexieLily - Kevin/Lucy/Scotty quick history lesson:

Kevin showed up in PC as a psychiatrist but was also there to help his twin brother, Ryan, who was a sociopath serial killer stuck in a mental ward.  (Jon played both roles and was fantastic).  During this time, he met Lucy Coe, and they became friends and then later started dating.  What really cemented them as a couple was the Kevin/Ryan storyline where Ryan escaped from the mental ward after knocking out Kevin during a visit and switching places with him.  Kevin managed to get free, but someone began terrorizing and stalking Felicia over a period of weeks, and to everyone's shock, it turned out to be Kevin.  He was suffering a nervous breakdown when he began to have resurfacing memories of what their mother had done to him and Ryan.  Essentially, their mother was molesting Ryan, and Kevin found out only because he pretended to be his brother as a child.  When he told their father what the mother was doing, his father left Ryan with the mother and took Kevin away.  This turned Ryan into a sociopath, and the guilt ate Kevin alive.  Much of PC turned against Kevin during that time when they found out he had stalked Felicia, but Lucy never wavered.  She remained loyal to Kevin and fought for him against everyone else.  It made me root for them as a couple.  Mac was also sympathetic and forgave Kevin, and so did Felicia eventually.  Kevin ultimately popped the question to Lucy, and she and Kevin were going to be married, but Kevin found out about a lie Lucy was keeping from him, and he called off the wedding.  When he had a chance to cool down, he went to go find Lucy  and apologize, and guess where she was?  In bed with Scott Baldwin!  Lucy has cheated with Scotty on Kevin, and so this last time of Kevin catching them kissing on stage at the Nurses Ball most recently, while she was married to Kevin, was the last straw.

I am leaving a ton of stories out that people can feel free to add to, but the initial story of Lucy and Kevin was really good, especially the Ryan/Kevin storyline and Kevin's relationship to Mac Scorpio.  GH eventually had a spin off in "Port Charles" which became this supernatural crapfest where Kevin and Lucy crossed over, but I don't want to remember that show.  

I liked Lucy and Kevin way back in the beginning but then the character of Lucy Coe became a bit of a ditz and a bit of a caricature with wild hand gestures, and I wasn't able to recognize her anymore.  She became too cartoonish for me.  She works better with Scotty now because he's equally ditzy like her.  Kevin was always my favorite character.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Bishop