GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[MSquared]

Oh, peach,don't get me started on those two, I'll be here for a month!  Between that scene and this:

I will never not be pissed off.  So much perfection.

[tvgoddess]

So much wasted chemistry. This is the only use I had for Carly or AJ, for that matter. They were freaking hot, had tons of backstory and history, and it all went for naught. MORONIC STUPIDITY.

[UYI]

I've liked the little I've seen of Jax & Carly. IR & LW clearly enjoyed working together. But Carly laughing at the idea that Jax was raped is too gross.

But yes, AJ & Carly were great. And to think they were considered a back up plan when the show couldn't keep Todd & Carly together (not that I'm crying about THAT loss, mind you). So stupid. 

[Francie]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:02 PM, HeatLifer said:

I honestly don't remember people questioning the age of the actors in JnR. People mostly loved them. They were super popular.

 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:04 PM, UYI said:

 

I've asked this before, but were there any fans who found the way he left Keesha in bad taste, even with his brain damage? Even if she technically moved up with AJ, it's still a pretty dick move. 

 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:08 PM, HeatLifer said:

I mean, I don't want to speak for the audience back then, but from those I interacted with, no, Jason wasn't seen as an asshole for Keesha. And, yeah, the excuse was the brain damage. He wasn't the same person.

 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:11 PM, ulkis said:

I wasn't watching then, but I think yours is the general opinion Heatlifer, although I have seen some people comment on how the show treated Keesha.

 

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 2:15 PM, UYI said:

Did Keesha get along with Robin, or show any jealousy towards her about it? It just seems like Keesha got thrown under the bus big time. 

I'm late to chime in on this, but better late than never, yes?

I became an avid GH watcher again in 1996, right at the beginning of JnR. The reception to them was great, from what I saw online. Back then the best GH social media site was soapzone.com's precursor, port-charles.com.  Kim and Robin were 19 at the time, I think, with Robin having deferred Yale by a year, if I remember correctly. Jason looked and seemed about 24. This was before Burton buffed up. 

Robin was portrayed as such an old soul by that point, that there didn't seem to be an age difference between her and Jason at all. She was world-worn, having lost her parents and first love and dealing with what was then a death sentence, but not world-weary. She was the only person in town who connected with Jason, because she had no expectations as to how he should be. She became his conscience and shaped his moral core, until she left for school and Sonny took over that role.

Back then it seemed so ballsy and refreshing for the writers to have Jason not get his memories back.  While Jason was a dick to Keesha and to the Quartermaines, most of us didn't hold it against him.  For the most part (and I don't mean to speak universally for people but just say what my perception of the audience's response was), while fans felt for Keesha and the Quatermaines, people sided with Jason. I have to give the writers credit, they did a wonderful job of making both sides sympathetic.  

Robin and Keesha rarely interacted. There certainly wasn't any petty jealousy or sniping or the kind. Keesha moved on with AJ, Robin with Jason, and their paths seldom crossed.  Carly had entered the picture by that point, so she was the thorn in Robin's side.

[Chairperson Meow]

I think if they wouldn't have tied Sonny in with the Quartetmaines/Jason, then Jason and Carly would both be better shows overall.  If Mo wanted his character to have a family so badly, it should've been with Brenda or Lilly.  The biggest problem and where the show clearly goes downhill is when Sonny gets a family at the cost of every other family and also faces no redemption.  Every grey/villain has the redemption story.  Jason has had probably a few redemption arcs-  giving up Jake, dating Robin, being Jake Doe, not wanting to be in the mob.  They're not typical ones, but they're still something.  Going to prison, stealing a cell phone to conduct mob business, ordering a beating, and then breaking out of prison in three months - after you're guilty of first degree murder and probably abuse of a corpse- is not a redemption at all. It'd be in the show's best interest to write it too.  Let your lead get an Emmy nom, get your show another Emmy, boost ratings.  

When do you guys think the show (if ever) started writing to fan bases and has that in your opinion weakened GH/soaps?  

[Asp Burger]

Okay, sorry, but a crown? Like a Burger King crown?

I pictured something more like a beauty pageant winner's, but since it was all offscreen, we can come up with something as ridiculous as we would like. I'm trying to remember if he said she actually was wearing a crown on her head, or if it was just "I saw Mommy. She had a crown." Maybe he meant the kind you get at the dentist's office.  She had a big ol' silver temp filling to replace a tooth that got knocked out in the car crash. She stayed away in the other town while she waited for the porcelain one to be made. Heh.  

That was very early in Dylan Cash's six-year run as Michael. Like, a month after he took over the role.  

[TeeVee329]

4 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

A couple days ago I was bored and decided to look up Carly/Jax clips since I wasn't watching when they were a thing/Jax is returning/people love them. I only watched a couple but I wasn't feeling them. Anyway, it lead me down an AJ/LW's Carly spiral and ugh so much wasted potential there.

This is SO good! LW is in no way insufferable in these scenes it's a miracle! "Only you could take all the fun out of a revenge rant," is just a fantastic line and SK's reading just elevates it even more.

AJ's line about how Carly could have pulled him instead of pushing him down might be one of my favorite pieces of soap dialogue ever, that's how much I love it.

And again, note that Carly is more upset here - about Todd of all fucking things - than she was the entire time she was estranged from Michael.

Edited June 6, 2016 by TeeVee329

[Chairperson Meow]

Well, Carly does hate to be wrong.  Todd proved her wrong and AJ called her out on it.

[UYI]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

 

I pictured something more like a beauty pageant winner's, but since it was all offscreen, we can come up with something as ridiculous as we would like.

I really don't know why I thought of that first instead of a beauty pageant crown. I guess I just find them more memorable. :P

[Oracle42]

6 hours ago, MSquared said:

Oh, peach,don't get me started on those two, I'll be here for a month!  Between that scene and this:

 

I will never not be pissed off.  So much perfection.

 

Aside from the terrible vampire shit, that was some of the best writing that RC did for GH - not coincidentally, it was also the only time he wasn't completely focused on integrating OLTL characters/actors into GH

[CreamedPeas]

Do we know why Liz doesn't have a mom? Who is her dad? 

[WendyCR72]

32 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

Do we know why Liz doesn't have a mom? Who is her dad? 

Lack of interest by every regime is apparently why Liz's mom is still a mystery. Her dad, however, is not. He is Dr. Jeff Webber, illegitimate son of GH doc Steve Hardy, the latter whom GH focused upon from inception, making Liz, her sister Sarah (also on the show twice under two different actresses) and half-brother Steve(n Lars) - also on the show as an adult under two actors - Steve's grandkids.

Jeff Webber was played by none other than Richard Dean Anderson, original (as there is a remake coming this year) MacGuyver! (GH never recast the role and RDA has seemed to have made it clear he won't return and has not played the role in some 30 years plus. So I have no idea why.)

Another bit of trivia for newer watchers: Jeff was Monica Q's hubby when she first appeared on the show (originally played by Patsy Rahn for about a year (I think? was too young to know then) 'til Leslie Charleson took over).

[UYI]

And of course, her uncle was Rick Webber, who she apparently spent no time bonding with when he briefly came back (to be destroyed and murdered) in 2002. I don't care that she might be more of a Hardy than a Webber; that was her uncle. 

[Harmony233]

They probally didn't want to show Liz bonding with Rick because of lucky lol.Since there sorts releated through adoption but it was dumb.

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, Francie said:

I have to give the writers credit, they did a wonderful job of making both sides sympathetic.  

I think they made both sides a bit too stubborn with their POVs, actually. Jason was a real asshole to the Qs, and the Qs were unwilling to give him even a second of breathing room to figure things out. I remember thinking if everyone would just shut up for a second, maybe a relationship could be reestablished. 

They wrote Tony really well during this story. He was the one stuck in the middle, trying to calm down both sides.

[CreamedPeas]

Thank you, WendyCR72. I watched back in the 80's so I remember Jeff Weber and Steve Hardy. Did Steve have any other kids besides Jeff? It now makes sense to me why Liz  calls Audrey, Grams. I've always wondered who Steven Lars was. I'm thinking that cute actor played him who is married to Jen on DOOL? 

[peachmangosteen]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

AJ's line about how Carly could have pulled him instead of pushing him down might be one of my favorite pieces of soap dialogue ever, that's how much I love it.

UGH YES! That is is just perfect and so classic. Sigh.

[Chairperson Meow]

About Jeff Webber:  Wasn't  there a story where Monica or Alan originally  thought AJ was Jeff Webber's, but then it was proved he was Alan's?  

[Harmony233]

2 hours ago, CreamedPeas said:

Thank you, WendyCR72. I watched back in the 80's so I remember Jeff Weber and Steve Hardy. Did Steve have any other kids besides Jeff? It now makes sense to me why Liz  calls Audrey, Grams. I've always wondered who Steven Lars was. I'm thinking that cute actor played him who is married to Jen on DOOL? 

Steve adopted Tom Hardy Audrey's son with tom Baldwin who was a product of rape.

[UYI]

16 minutes ago, Chairperson Meow said:

About Jeff Webber:  Wasn't  there a story where Monica or Alan originally  thought AJ was Jeff Webber's, but then it was proved he was Alan's?  

Rick Webber's.

Which means Liz, Sarah, and Steve would have been AJ's cousins, and so Quiz wouldn't have been an option.

Edited June 6, 2016 by UYI

[TeeVee329]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

UGH YES! That is is just perfect and so classic. Sigh.

What's great about the line is that he doesn't disavow his own demons and his own mistakes, but really eloquently sums up the basic lack of humanity Carly showed towards him.  Gawd, I love it so much.

And on a lighter note, his "C'mon honey, what's the matter, afraid we made another baby?" line to her the next morning is equally genius.

Edited June 6, 2016 by TeeVee329

[dubbel zout]

The writing for those scenes were SO good. Awesome writer, wherefore art thou?

[Oracle42]

31 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

The writing for those scenes were SO good. Awesome writer, wherefore art thou?

 

Who wrote those days?

[Tiger]

CarnAJ was so fucking amazing, so of course Frank & Ron pissed it away for Cranco and Scum part XXXIV.

[CreamedPeas]

I just had a flash back of Jeff with a woman named Anne who was a virgin. I remember thinking she was beautiful. 

[UYI]

I don't know why they couldn't have just said that Jeff got back with Anne off screen and they had Sarah & Liz together. It would've worked, IMO. 

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, CreamedPeas said:

I've always wondered who Steven Lars was. I'm thinking that cute actor played him who is married to Jen on DOOL? 

Yes, Scott Reeves was the second actor to play Steve as an adult. Shaun Benson was the first in 2004.

[CreamedPeas]

I'm always amazed at the memories that all of you have. It takes someone to remind me of things and then I'll start remembering. Harmony 233 said that about Tom Hardy and I remembered him after that. Tall blonde, I think. 

My crush on Sonny started when Carly 1 was on. They had HOT sex scenes. I haven't liked the two Carlys since then. 

[dubbel zout]

There've been three Carlys since SJB: Tamara Braun, Jennifer Brandsford, and the current actor, Laura Wright.

[CreamedPeas]

I just Googled all of them to make sure I'm thinking of the right one and its Sarah Brown. Did Sonny and Carly get together after the stuff with Karen (which I don't think I was watching then) and Stone dying? 

[CreamedPeas]

I just found Brenda and Miguel in the shower!!! And also a Quartermaine party for either Jason or AJ' s 22nd bday. I wish I knew how to copy it to put in here. 

[CreamedPeas]

WTF??! I'm watching a scene where Sonny is kicking "Claudia" out while they're at a party and everyone is there. I think it's from 2009. He said she tried to kill him and shot his son!! Now this Claudia is who I remember as the first Carly. And the current Carly is one of the guests at the party??! Someone explain this and I won't keep bothering everyone. :)

[WendyCR72]

10 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

WTF??! I'm watching a scene where Sonny is kicking "Claudia" out while they're at a party and everyone is there. I think it's from 2009. He said she tried to kill him and shot his son!! Now this Claudia is who I remember as the first Carly. And the current Carly is one of the guests at the party??! Someone explain this and I won't keep bothering everyone. :)

Easy. Sarah Brown left the role of Carly in 2001. She returned as Claudia Zacchara, daughter of looney rival mobster Anthony Zacchara (played hilariously and creepily by Bruce Weitz). So, Sarah Brown played two different characters at different points on the show. And when she debuted, it was sort of ironic and meta as she and Sonny flirted/did the usual bed gymnastics as Sonny does.

IIRC, Claudia shared scenes with LW's Carly, too. Sort of funny and surreal.

[UYI]

49 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

I just Googled all of them to make sure I'm thinking of the right one and its Sarah Brown. Did Sonny and Carly get together after the stuff with Karen (which I don't think I was watching then) and Stone dying? 

 

WAY after. The stuff with Karen was in 1993, and Stone died in 1995 (and Carly came to town in 1996). Sonny and Carly first slept together in 1999.
 

Edited June 6, 2016 by UYI

[CreamedPeas]

Thanks, UYI and WendyCR 72. That makes sense now. 

Oh, and, BOWCHICCAWOWWOW!!! And no one else thinks Sonny is sexy? At least back then? Anyone? 

[jsbt]

Yes, he was very sexy back then. I remember that scene well. But Sarah was the one who was really mesmerizing to me. There was (and really is) no actor and character like her on daytime back then, who they let be that real.

Edited June 6, 2016 by jsbt

[dubbel zout]

That Sonny wouldn't have dreamed of wearing a tracksuit.

[Francie]

1 hour ago, jsbt said:

Yes, he was very sexy back then. I remember that scene well. But Sarah was the one who was really mesmerizing to me. There was (and really is) no actor and character like her on daytime back then, who they let be that real.

Sarah was mesmerizing. Her take down of Tony when she told him the baby wasn't his was the most openly evil I've ever seen anyone only armed with words to be. And even then, I saw the fear in her that was prompting her to go on the offensive so aggressively and so totally. 

She and Sonny, together, was a horrendous mistake, though. They cancelled out the rootability factor in each. 

1 hour ago, CreamedPeas said:

Thanks, UYI and WendyCR 72. That makes sense now. 

Oh, and, BOWCHICCAWOWWOW!!! And no one else thinks Sonny is sexy? At least back then? Anyone? 

Not gonna lie, I had a major crush on MB back in his AMC days and during they Sonny and Brenda heyday.

The attraction was destroyed, on a dime, during cave sex. Today, I still can't think of that scene without thinking that they omitted a crucial line of dialogue, "Should we have good sex and use up all the air and die quickly, or have really bad sex and live another hour or two?" 

That was (one of) my "jump the shark" moment for GH. A better writer would have just had the two of them declare their love for each other and then have them deal with the fall out.  Having them have sex next to a corpse while air was running out and Brenda detoxing from a theretofore prescription drug additional was just plain gross. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Francie

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, Francie said:

Having them have sex next to a corpse while air was running out

It certainly makes LimoSex and CryptSex fit right in.

[CreamedPeas]

I didn't see cave sex. 

My sister loved him on AMC. I think his name was Nico. I didn't watch that show but know most of the characters that were on it. 

Maurice has aged like all of us. Watching the old clips today reminded me of how good the show used to be. Sonny and Sam and Sonny and Brenda had intense relationships. And reading how he flubs his lines and seems to be looking at cue cards sometimes, I see that now. But I think he did a great job acting back in the day and he was very handsome. 

[ulkis]

22 minutes ago, Francie said:

 That was (one of) my "jump the shark" moment for GH. A better writer would have just had the two of them declare their love for each other and then have them deal with the fall out.  Having them have sex next to a corpse while air was running out and Brenda detoxing from a theretofore prescription drug additional was just plain gross. 

And guess who wrote that? Iacabuzo and Whitesell, who they added to the writing team recently. Bah.

[ulkis]

9 minutes ago, ulkis said:

And guess who wrote that? Iacabuzo and Whitesell, who they added to the writing team recently. Bah.

Or could have been Culliton. Strangely enough I can't find a headwriter history list for GH.

[Francie]

6 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Or could have been Culliton. Strangely enough I can't find a headwriter history list for GH.

I think it was Culliton. 

I remember that my disdain for him was just as profound as my disdain for Ron. 

In any event I think cave sex aired in Feburary or March of 1997. 

[Asp Burger]

This is an example of why Sarah Brown is unsurpassed as Carly, in my opinion. Now, that is the point of view of someone who never loved the character, so take it for what it's worth. But when people later would claim that the Tamara Braun version brought "vulnerability" to Carly that Sarah Brown did not, I was very surprised. Brown is all vulnerability here. The Braun version was just an out-and-out bitch. If she had been playing the scene below (and she did, with various women who were getting close to Jason or Sonny), everything Carly said would have seemed to have face value. With Brown, you can see how terrified Carly is that her hold on Jason is slipping and that this other chick is going to be Robin Redux. She's like a bluffing cobra.  

Admittedly, Braun and Wright have played a Carly whose status has risen in the Port Charles world, so some of their smugness is the writing too. Unfortunately, Liz's line at the end here, "I realize you think you're this force of nature and everybody should just get out of your way and let you take whatever you want" was prophetic for how the character started being written and acted. Nowadays she's even trying to take away some other woman's baby.  

[UYI]

42 minutes ago, ulkis said:

And guess who wrote that? Iacabuzo and Whitesell, who they added to the writing team recently. Bah.

 

I think the only really noteworthy thing they did was create Liz, and that wouldn't have even happened had the show not been so impressed with Becky's audition for Sarah that they created the part of Liz just for her (and yes, that is a true story, Becky confirmed it herself).

34 minutes ago, ulkis said:

Or could have been Culliton. Strangely enough I can't find a headwriter history list for GH.

 

GH's Wikipedia article used to have one, but it's gone now. 

[Ambrosefolly]

2 hours ago, Francie said:

The attraction was destroyed, on a dime, during cave sex. Today, I still can't think of that scene without thinking that they omitted a crucial line of dialogue, "Should we have good sex and use up all the air and die quickly, or have really bad sex and live another hour or two?" 

That was (one of) my "jump the shark" moment for GH. A better writer would have just had the two of them declare their love for each other and then have them deal with the fall out.  Having them have sex next to a corpse while air was running out and Brenda detoxing from a theretofore prescription drug additional was just plain gross. 

https://despairintheafternoon.wordpress.com/2010/12/12/the-best-of-sb-aint-no-lovin-like-cave-lovin/

It had its moments

Quote

BRENDA: I hated that Lily could give you peace.
SONNY: I hated that Jax made you feel safe.

[Tiger]

5 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

There've been three Carlys since SJB: Tamara Braun, Jennifer Brandsford, and the current actor, Laura Wright.

NGL, I would maybe consider possibly thinking about swimming back from the barge if they temp re-casted Carly with all three previous actresses.  They could rotate by scene.

[Francie]

The second clip below is my submission for best Carly moment ever. First, the set up. Carly is pregnant, and she just learned that her fiancé, good ol' Tony Jones, is suing her for custody.  She's a mess of emotions, and Tony is particularly blunt, and a bit cold and cutthroat, when he readily admits that he originally thought that what he would do is marry her and then divorce her a couple years later, when the baby was older. Wow, show me a woman not ready to go for the jugular if their lover admitted that. These scenes below are great ...

... but even they pale in comparison to the train bursting through the intersection and colliding with a bus full of schoolchildren below. What you need to know first, and why Carly and Sarah are both so masterful here is that she *is* bluffing. We, the ever faithful audience, know that the baby's father is either Tony or AJ. She was in a relationship with Tony, had a one-night stand with AJ (that he blacked out and doesn't remember), and returned that very night to Tony.  What you also should know is that she and Jason have been nothing more than friends for more than a year by this point. He has been completely faithful to (off camera and at Yale) Robin.  When Carly mentions a food fight -- it WAS just a food fight. We saw it all play out. So when Carly attacks Tony's intelligence and perception and utterly humiliates him, the collective audience did an "Oh no you didn't!" But what made it *not* cartoonishly evil is what happened in the first clip above. She's fighting for baby here, and she's not going to take any prisoners. And in a way, you can't blame her.

 

When Carly says the baby is Jason's, she said it so fast with such conviction, I really had a sucking in air reaction when I saw it for the first time. And then when Carly started twisting the knife about her relationship with Jason, only about 10% of that is true and the other 90% is all made up. That's what makes the lie so great -- the kernel of truth that she builds on. Only the part about how alone and alienated she felt when she first moved to Port Charles, how she met Jason at Jake's, and how they had anonymous grungy sex at the beginning of their relationship was true. Everything after that is made up. But Sarah doesn't play it with a wink to the audience. If you didn't watch the show and know the truth, you'd think she was dropping truth bomb after truth bomb. And that's what makes this so deliciously good.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Francie

[Asp Burger]

I would maybe consider possibly thinking about swimming back from the barge if they temp re-casted Carly with all three previous actresses.  They could rotate by scene

They did bring Brown and Braun back a couple years ago for one "three Carlys" special episode with alternating scenes, but Jennifer Bransford was not invited to the party.  

[UYI]

The very end of the top scenes Francie posted (starting at about 8:34) were used in SJB's Emmy reel in 1998, when she won for the second time (the first included the scenes when Luke confronted Carly over being Bobbie's daughter in the cottage, and the third had Carly telling Jason she loved him--I guess after she and Sonny slept together?).