GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Oracle42]

I think they also didn't want to deal with all the vampire mythology from PC - and Guza was probably having wet dreams about Lara Croft

[Francie]

58 minutes ago, tvgoddess said:

She might be a flop for you, but I definitely wouldn't say she's a flop with most of the audience. She's a very popular character and has a fanbase that loves KeMo to death.

I think, at best, she has a plurality of the audience in her corner. I don't see her being popular with more than half of the audience. Today's audience is so splintered, and the show so inconsistent that I think about 60 to 70% of us barely root for 3 or more characters.  This ain't your mother's sit down at 2 or 3 and watch GH for an hour audience.  It feels like most people DVR and FF and that watching an entire episode is a chore.  Well, except that the mean age of a GH viewer is about 59/60, so I take that back, maybe it is your mother's show after all.

Having said that, I've said before that if the show wanted to build up its audience, it should focus on Sam and Liz -- independently. They each should be leads in their own storylines where they have bumps and challenges, but ultimately win out at the end of the day. Why the show insists on pitting them against each other and having writers take cheap pot shots at each other is beyond me. Because a show based around characters like Nina and Dr. O may be fun to write, and it may have the audience chuckling here or there, but no one can identify with characters like those, which means that viewers can't invest, get hooked, and want to rush home to watch what happens next.

[Harmony233]

27 minutes ago, jsbt said:

They didn't give a shit about Kevin or Lucy, and wanted to create someone new.

I Remeber when PC was cancelled Guza claiming they didn't have room for Lucy and Kevin or some crap.

[UYI]

15 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I think Tony's prob was more than LL, too. I don't think he liked the Jake BS at ALL.

 

But the reason he didn't like it isn't the same reason other people didn't like it. He thought killing his grandson made him some dark badass or some shit like that. 

[ulkis]

3 minutes ago, UYI said:

But the reason he didn't like it isn't the same reason other people didn't like it. He thought killing his grandson made him some dark badass or some shit like that. 

Agreed, although I do think Geary genuinely was sick of the cartoonishness in general. I think he thought the masks were stupid as hell, at least by the time they got to the third one.

[UYI]

13 hours ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Hugely unpopular opinion, I'm sure, but I think one of the things that messed up Mac-as-Romantic-Adventure-Hero was making him Robin's guardian so quickly.  He was in kind of a no-win situation ... Mac either looked like a stick in the mud when teen Robin was being rebellious, or looked neglectful toward his orphan neice when he was off trying to do something adventurous.*  Eventually, his primary story became "how do I parent a teenager?!" ... which did not give him much breathing room to develop into some dashing hero.   

 

* I know Mac is now regarded (justifiably) as the best parent in Port Charles, ever, but in the early 90s, I do remember forums where people joked that Mac must have forgotten Robin existed ... probably because of him going on the run with Felicia for a while.

 

Also, in the early years at least, he HAD to be up against some F&F fan competition, as Jack Wagner was actually considered someone who would return to the show back then. And even though Mac & Felicia are considered a bedrock couple now (albeit an invisible one), F&F were/are a SUPERCOUPLE, perhaps the biggest on this show after L&L, and their fan base, not to mention the threat of Frisco returning, had to be on fans' minds in the 90's (especially when Kristina was still there/she & Jack were still married). I feel like the shadow of F&F followed Mac for years. 

Edited May 4, 2016 by UYI

[dubbel zout]

13 hours ago, jsbt said:

They tried to give her to Sonny for Mo's ego and that was a disaster.

It didn't help that Sam was yet another in a long line of tiny brunettes. And that she was also paired with Jax to reignite that hopeless rivalry (hopeless because Jax would never win).

And don't get me started on Danny. It was so craven and condescending that she was doing all this for her mentally challenged brother. UGH. I shed no tears when he died.

Edited May 4, 2016 by dubbel zout

[UYI]

Would Hannah count as a character that the show pushed heavily but flopped? All anyone really knows about her now is that LV married JJ. 

[ulkis]

16 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

It didn't help that Sam was yet another in a long line of tiny brunettes. And that she was also paired with Jax to reignite that hopeless rivalry (hopeless because Jax would never win).

And don't get me started on Danny. It was so craven and condescending that she was doing all this for her mentally challenged brother. UGH. I shed no tears when he died.

Seriously. I'll give him this thought - without him, baby Danny probably would have been named Jason Jr otherwise, so at least there's that.

[WendyCR72]

16 hours ago, ulkis said:

I forgot about Sam. She's very popular now but they pushed her hard. They even whipped out a secret mentally disabled brother she had been taking care of for years. When did Danny appear? 2004 or O5? 

Big Danny was actually one of the casualties of the 2006 Monkey Virus. There was a "cure" shortage and either Alexis or Danny got it; Alexis got it, having 2 small (at the time) kids, and Sam screamed at her about it.

[ulkis]

I knew that, but I was wondering how long it will after Sam's debut that he appeared. I was wondering how long it was till they got out the big gun of "she was taking care of her brother!"

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I knew that, but I was wondering how long it will after Sam's debut that he appeared. I was wondering how long it was till they got out the big gun of "she was taking care of her brother!"

I seem to recall a Wicked Stepmother, too. Seriously. She mistreated Big Danny or something...

[dubbel zout]

Sam had a few backstories before they finally settled on the one where she scammed older men out of money because she had to take care of Danny.

[tvgoddess]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

I seem to recall a Wicked Stepmother, too. Seriously. She mistreated Big Danny or something...

Didn't she DIAF for real?

[backhometome]

Quote

Seriously. I'll give him this thought - without him, baby Danny probably would have been named Jason Jr otherwise, so at least there's that.

As a Sam fan I will be forever grateful that she didnt name her baby after Jason. Especially after how awful he treated her during the rape/pregnancy story. 

[Chairperson Meow]

1 hour ago, backhometome said:

As a Sam fan I will be forever grateful that she didnt name her baby after Jason. Especially after how awful he treated her during the rape/pregnancy story. 

One good thing about revived Jason is that now we won't have a sudden magical pregnancy with a baby named after Jason.    Ugh, but we will always have infinite number Michaels.   

[jsbt]

2 hours ago, ulkis said:

I knew that, but I was wondering how long it will after Sam's debut that he appeared. I was wondering how long it was till they got out the big gun of "she was taking care of her brother!"

I remember it taking til at least some time in 2004, when my viewing became sporadic for quite a while. They had tried to push Jax and Sam hard out of the gate, which was almost certainly a Brian Frons initiative. It was - this is real - "Jam: Catch them from the beginning!" I think that was the actual couple name and slogan, I think it was in ads. The story itself, with the treasure hunting and the Dead Man's Hand and all that, was not bad on paper IMO, and when Sam debuted she was clean-scrubbed and fresh-faced for a time. But it fizzled almost immediately, and I'm sure Guza had zero interest in it or Jax. So they quickly pivoted her to Sonny which continued the train wreck of her early days. (I think the whole Dead Man's Hand story also somehow ended with Sonny pulling a mythical sword from a stone or something.) I don't think they brought the brother in until she was more concretely paired up with Jason. I shed no tears for Danny Sr.

Edited May 4, 2016 by jsbt

[ulkis]

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

I remember it taking til at least some time in 2004, when my viewing became sporadic for quite a while. They had tried to push Jax and Sam hard out of the gate, which was almost certainly a Brian Frons initiative. It was - this is real - "Jam: Catch them from the beginning!" I think that was the actual couple name and slogan, I think it was in ads. The story itself, with the treasure hunting and the Dead Man's Hand and all that, was not bad on paper IMO, and when Sam debuted she was clean-scrubbed and fresh-faced for a time. But it fizzled almost immediately, and I'm sure Guza had zero interest in it or Jax. So they quickly pivoted her to Sonny which continued the train wreck of her early days. I don't think they brought the brother in until she was more concretely paired up with Jason. I shed no tears for Danny Sr.

I definitely remember the ads. I admit I may still have some old soap digest from that time that have it. 

[backhometome]

I wasn't watching during the Jax/Sam period, I was around the time Sam got pregnant,  but I`m pretty sure that KeMo once said that the Jason pairing/Sbu basically saved her job. 

[SlovakPrincess]

3 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Big Danny was actually one of the casualties of the 2006 Monkey Virus. There was a "cure" shortage and either Alexis or Danny got it; Alexis got it, having 2 small (at the time) kids, and Sam screamed at her about it.

Heh, that was back when I liked Alexis, or at least felt bad that she had to deal with Sam flipping out on her all the time.  

MonkeyVirus is brilliant compared to most of what we've endured in recent years.  But it really was laughable - especially when they insisted on sticking patients who hated each other in rooms together - like Sam and Alexis.  Hee.  

[dubbel zout]

It brought back Robert Fucking! Scorpio, even if it immediately (and characteristically) squandered him.

[Oracle42]

10 minutes ago, SlovakPrincess said:

Heh, that was back when I liked Alexis, or at least felt bad that she had to deal with Sam flipping out on her all the time.  

MonkeyVirus is brilliant compared to most of what we've endured in recent years.  But it really was laughable - especially when they insisted on sticking patients who hated each other in rooms together - like Sam and Alexis.  Hee.  

The more I see of this sanitized drama-free soap, the more I miss ridiculous soap tropes like enemies stuck in a room together during a crisis. Hell, I miss Sam getting to yell at people even when it's annoying or selfish

Edited May 4, 2016 by Oracle42

[SlovakPrincess]

Just now, dubbel zout said:

It brought back Robert Fucking! Scorpio, even if it immediately (and characteristically) squandered him.

I hated the way they wrote it.  Hated it so much.  And I had been so excited when I first heard the news he was returning ...

Although I do remember fondly when he threatened to inject Robin with the cure himself, because she was being a self-sacrificing idiot about it and refusing to take the dose.  It was the most in-character thing he did -- it wasn't the "right" thing to say to an adult with every right to make her own decisions .... but it showed how desperately worried he was for his daughter.

[HeatLifer]

The GH Twitter tweeted out a clip of Patrick and Sabrina to get us ready for the Nurses' Ball.

Like.....REALLY? REALLY? 

I didn't know Ron runs that account now?

[WendyCR72]

14 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

The GH Twitter tweeted out a clip of Patrick and Sabrina to get us ready for the Nurses' Ball.

Like.....REALLY? REALLY? 

I didn't know Ron runs that account now?

Just nod and smile. It's comical at this point.

[HeatLifer]

55 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Just nod and smile. It's comical at this point.

I just....he's not on the show anymore....he ended up with his main decade-long ship....Robin is a freaking VET who is a major part of the NB...and  ...they...choose...that....clip....I......

*smiles and nods*

[Chairperson Meow]

Dammit.   Does that mean Blah Blah is returning?    I'd rather be alone.   She's like the stuff BoJack Horseman vomits off the balcony after he learns Mr Peanutbutter and Diane are dating.  She is cotton candy horse vomit.  

[ulkis]

This promo from late 2011 is hilarious

It looks good, but if you watched the show you knew nothing was gonna happen with Jason and then b) certainly the show didn't stand behind the promo's assertion that Jason was a ruthless killer.

But then again, there were all those rumors swirling at the time that Jason was gonna to kill a bunch of (non-mobster-y) people because of the thing in his brain, so maybe it would have gone somewhere if Garin Wolf hadn't been thankfully demoted.

[Lobsel Vith]

6 minutes ago, ulkis said:

This promo from late 2011 is hilarious

 

It looks good, but if you watched the show you knew nothing was gonna happen with Jason and then b) certainly the show didn't stand behind the promo's assertion that Jason was a ruthless killer.

But then again, there were all those rumors swirling at the time that Jason was gonna to kill a bunch of (non-mobster-y) people because of the thing in his brain, so maybe it would have gone somewhere if Garin Wolf hadn't been thankfully demoted.

I thought it was that he was going to be the one beating up the women (rather than Ronnie).

[ulkis]

Oh right, that could have been it. 

[Oracle42]

Wow

[UYI]

At least it lead to seeing what a Jason Q might have been like.

And Alan!

[ulkis]

@HeatLifer, I need your help!! Did or did not Jason morgan remember some of Jason Q's medical training? Thanks!

[HeatLifer]

Girl, you don't remember this?

[ulkis]

I do! I even linked to it while I was arguing about it lol but the person I was debating with said on Night Shift part 1 they retconned it and Jason said he remembered nothing. I just find it hard to believe they didn't set it up for Jason to remember some of his medical training but as always, you never know with the GH writers.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ulkis

[Chairperson Meow]

I feel dirty, but SBu was actually attractive in that What If Jason Q clip.  Shrug, the thug life does nothing for me.  

[HeatLifer]

27 minutes ago, ulkis said:

I do! I even linked to it while I was arguing about it lol but the person I was debating with said on Night Shift part 1 they retconned it and Jason said he remembered nothing. I just find it hard to believe they didn't set it up for Jason to remember some of his medical training but as always, you never know with the GH writers.

Oh, when he delivered the baby? I'd have to go back and rewatch. I don't remember a retcon off the top of my head.

[ulkis]

Yeah, that was it. If you ask me, Jason probably just didn't want to get near the woman's crotch :D

[CreamedPeas]

How did it happen that Sonny shot Dante? 

[Lobsel Vith]

2 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

How did it happen that Sonny shot Dante? 

Dante was an undercover cop and neither knew they were father and son, since Dante's mother was apparently much smarter when she was younger and realized Sonny was a danger. Sonny found out he was a cop and shot him; Jason and Spinelli were also planning to kill Dante.

Sonny and Jason, our heroes. :-/

[ulkis]

2 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

How did it happen that Sonny shot Dante? 

copying and pasting @MSquared

Dante grew up to be an undercover FBI agent trying to take down the mob.  He infiltrated the organization and when Sonny realized this, shot him, after which Olivia told him the truth.

He was really gross about it too. He held Dante at gunpoint, taunted him about how he (Sonny) was never going to be convicted because no one would ever find Dante's body, and after that he shot him. Dante didn't know Sonny was his father either when he was infiltrating Sonny's mob. Sonny felt extra betrayed because he had liked Dante.

[CreamedPeas]

Thanks. So Sonny didn't intentionally taunt or shoot his own son. He's a mobster on the show. That's what mobsters do. 

Did Sonny know he was a federal agent or just thought he was some guy from another crime family trying to take him down? 

I didn't realize Spinelli would kill someone. I thought he was a techie nerd guy. 

[ulkis]

6 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

Thanks. So Sonny didn't intentionally taunt or shoot his own son. He's a mobster on the show. That's what mobsters do. 

Sure, but like I said, he went out of his way to be cruel to Dante. It makes no sense why Dante gives him so much benefit of the doubt or why his mother gives him the time of day. And his attitude afterwards was worse. If he had said "I'm sorry about what happened, I won't bother you but know that if you ever need or want anything, I'm here" but instead he badgered Dante constantly in his hospital room and more than once said, "you're still bringing that up again?"

I'll have to find the clip later, but it was interesting because they juxtaposed the scene with Carly's daughter's baptism with the priest talking about parents protecting their children from the evils of this world. The writers knew who Sonny was then even though they made excuses for him so he could stay viable on the show. Now he's much more generic hero who happens to be in the mob.

Sonny found out he was FBI; that's why they decided to kill him.

Spin didn't kill anyone; he just found out the info and turned it over to Sonny and Jason knowing what they were gonna do with it. Maxie at the baptism started talking to him about how Lulu was in love and he made a guilty face but that's all he did.

Michael had actually been the first to tell Sonny and Jason Dante was undercover (he overheard because Dante loved to talk about  it on the docks lol) but they didn't believe him because he was jealous of Dante ( Sonny picked him as his successor). He told fully knowing/wanting that  Sonny and Jason would kill Dante so he was a bit of a turd then too.

[nilyank]

Quote

Thanks. So Sonny didn't intentionally taunt or shoot his own son. He's a mobster on the show. That's what mobsters do. 

Did Sonny know he was a federal agent or just thought he was some guy from another crime family trying to take him down? 

I didn't realize Spinelli would kill someone. I thought he was a techie nerd guy. 

Michael was super jealous of Dante because Sonny really liked him and was considering one day of giving the mob to him. Dante had this bad habit of talking in public about being an undercover cop from the NYPD and Michael overheard him. He told Sonny and company. Spinelli use his hacking skills to confirm the story.

After Joss' baptism, Jason was going to kill Dante. Spinelli knew about it. Dante showed up at Sonny's before the baptism and things blew up and Sonny shot him.

[CreamedPeas]

Thanks for all of the background on this topic. ULKIS and NILYANK. 

It sounds like they did this in a Godfather type way with the baptism happening at the same time the shooting was. 

One more question and I'll stop. What and where is the "barge" I occasionally see where someone is escaping there and even without knowing what it is, it makes me laugh picturing some of you bobbing up and down out in the water. 

[Lobsel Vith]

31 minutes ago, CreamedPeas said:

Thanks. So Sonny didn't intentionally taunt or shoot his own son. He's a mobster on the show. That's what mobsters do. 

Did Sonny know he was a federal agent or just thought he was some guy from another crime family trying to take him down? 

I didn't realize Spinelli would kill someone. I thought he was a techie nerd guy. 

Sonny did intentionally shoot Dante, he simply didn't know Dante was his son at the time. He knew Dante was a cop. The problem for some fans is that the show treats Sonny like a saint and not a mobster. When kidnapping Johnny lead to Michael getting shot, when he nearly killed Kristina with a car bomb that eventually lead to a dangerous surgery a few months later, it's swept under the rug.

As for Spinelli, he was helping Jason, who was originally going to kill Dante himself. He said to Maxie about the planned murder:

Spinelli - I remember the day of Josslyn’s christening. I was aware that Stone Cold and Mister Sir were planning Dante’s demise, and there was Lulu, so worried about Dante. And yet I said nothing.

Maxie - Do you regret that?

Spinelli - No... I’m of the belief that what’s set in motion has to take its due course without outside interference. And when the stakes are higher for others than they can ever be for you, sometimes the most prudent choice is just to do nothing.

[ulkis]

Ask away! It's what this stuff is here for. The barge is a metaphorical one for people who have stopped watching or taken a break from the show. If you scroll down there's a thread for it here.

[MSquared]

8 hours ago, ulkis said:

copying and pasting @MSquared

 

 

He was really gross about it too. He held Dante at gunpoint, taunted him about how he (Sonny) was never going to be convicted because no one would ever find Dante's  body, and after that he shot him. Dante didn't know Sonny was his father either when he was infiltrating Sonny's mob. Sonny felt extra betrayed because he had liked Dante.

Wow, @ulkis,how old is that quote?  I don't even remember making it!

[katie9918]

Does it seriously matter that Sonny didn't know the man he was about to murder was his son? 

 

I also seem to remember Robin blaming Patrick for Dante being shot by Sonny because he knew Dante was Sonny's son and was asked by the police to keep that secret (he was a cop) and by Dante and Olivia to keep the other one (he was Sonny's son). That was one of my special rage blackout moments with Robin, for the Uncle Mac factor alone.

[ulkis]

2 hours ago, MSquared said:

Wow, @ulkis,how old is that quote?  I don't even remember making it!

Maybe two years? I thought I had already made an explanation here and just used the search function to look for the word "undercover" in this thread, but nothing of mine popped up and something of yours did so I went with that. :)

@katie9918 I don't remember them having a huge arguement about that; she was surprised he knew and was like "if you told me maybe I could have stopped this" but that's about it. It was later on Robin went to try to stop Dante from testifying against Sonny that they got in a fight.

Sonny was the one who got mad at Patrick. A couple days later after the shooting Patrick went to apologize to him for keeping the secret and Sonny got mad and it ended with Sonny asking if Patrick was perfect and saying maybe one day Patrick would mess up, foreshadowing his affair. Because on GH, having an affair is as bad as murder. Well, if it's Sonny doing the murdering. 

I remember this hilarious site called madcaprecaps said about that scene: "I really think in Sonny's mind Patrick and Olivia held him back trying to get to Dante while Jax squeezed the trigger."