GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[SlovakPrincess]

And the way she sobs here pathetically saying "yes I know you were just trying to calm me down . . . " is so off-putting.

 

 

Was the 80s really so long ago that slapping someone because they're "hysterical" was still seen as a-ok?   But she wasn't even being hysterical, she was just disagreeing with him.  He's such an ass.

[dubbel zout]

Was the 80s really so long ago that slapping someone because they're "hysterical" was still seen as a-ok?

 

Hasn't it always been kind of a cliché? I'm thinking of Airplane!, when everybody takes turns smacking the lady with the panic attack. That was 1980.

[ulkis]

it has a vague patina of 'history,' even though Nikolas and Liz's original affair was one of the most horrendously-received, unpopular, ruinous storylines of the last ten years. Why would anyone want to revisit this when it destroyed them last time? There is no way to legitimize it as a romance, IMO. They tried it under Guza - mostly as, again, a time-waster, but also, I think, because that former team had much more contempt for the characters - and it failed.

 

 

I think the character he really had the most contempt for was Lucky in that scenario, although at that point I guess he didn't give a crap about Nikolas either, but he was still kinda trying for him at least. I don't know if Guza had contempt for Liz (at least not more so than any other woman), more like he just didn't care. I always felt like he cared more about Liz than, say, Sam, who I think was more protected by Frons, by anyway, yeah, because Nik/Liz was written as being, I don't know if I want to say sympathetic, but certainly the ones with actual POV when Greg Vaughan's Lucky was there. I wonder if Guza would have been able to/would have tried to pull off Liz and Nikolas as a legit couple for a while if Jonathan Jackson hadn't returned as Lucky. Because with Guza, Greg Vaughan's Lucky would have been, at best, if not the one driving Liz and Nik to have an affair (see: him doing drugs and sleeping with Maxie to send Liz into Jason's arms), the well-natured chump in the scenario (see: him marrying Liz again while she was pregnant with Jason's baby).

Edited July 20, 2014 by ulkis

[jsbt]

I think once JJ came back Guza lost all interest in Nikolas or Liz and became a big Lucky booster again. I don't think he'd given much thought to any of them in years - it was obvious he was done with Nik as a major male lead when they put him with Courtney and made him the heavy opposite Sonny and Emily, and without Jason Liz was nothing to Guza. Hence why Guza just stuck them together in various weird little plots for years after - with Brook Lynn, etc. until Tyler finally walked. Which is what I think Guza really wanted anyway, just as he'd quietly waited for Ingo Rademacher to finally leave. Everything I saw with them after JJ's return indicated it was this B or C story designed to make them both look as tawdry and uninteresting as possible.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I wonder if Guza would have been able to/would have tried to pull off Liz and Nikolas as a legit couple for a while if Jonathan Jackson hadn't returned as Lucky. Because with Guza, Greg Vaughan's Lucky would have been, at best, if not the one driving Liz and Nik to have an affair (see: him doing drugs and sleeping with Maxie to send Liz into Lucky's arms),

 

I think you mean sending Liz into Jason's arms, right?

[ulkis]

whoops, yes, off to edit

I think once JJ came back Guza lost all interest in Nikolas or Liz and became a big Lucky booster again. I don't think he'd given much thought to any of them in years - it was obvious he was done with Nik as a major male lead when they put him with Courtney and made him the heavy opposite Sonny and Emily, and without Jason Liz was nothing to Guza. Hence why Guza just stuck them together in various weird little plots for years after - with Brook Lynn, etc. until Tyler finally walked. Which is what I think Guza really wanted anyway, just as he'd quietly waited for Ingo Rademacher to finally leave.

 

Oh no, they were fired. Ingo I'm not 100% about, but Tyler definitely was. His statement after they fired him:

 

http://abc.soapsindepth.com/2011/03/exclusive-axed-gh-star-sets-th.html

 

I remember cause this particular statement stood out in my mind

 

Last night, Soaps In Depth's Twitter page released Tyler Christopher's official statement on his exit as GENERAL HOSPITAL's Nikolas: "Commitment, professionalism and performance doesn't get you anything."

 

 

Like . . . I like Tyler, and Nikolas, was glad he came back last year, but he never seemed very committed to the material by the time he left. Of course, considering his material at that point was a D list romance with Brook Lynn, it's hard to blame him.

[jsbt]

Oh, you're right, I wasn't sure. I do think they'd waited a very long time to try and drive both him and Rademacher off over the years, and then finally just canned them instead.

 

I think Tyler was terrible by the time he left, too, and came back more energized. Now he's boring and dead-eyed again and I can't really blame him. I can blame him for the steroid look though.

[dubbel zout]

I think the actors who have something going on outside GH are probably the happiest; Jasus knows they can't be getting much creative satisfaction from any of the stories going on.

[ulkis]

Oh, you're right, I wasn't sure. I do think they'd waited a very long time to try and drive both him and Rademacher off over the years, and then finally just canned them instead.

 

I think Tyler was terrible by the time he left, too, and came back more energized. Now he's boring and dead-eyed again and I can't really blame him. I can blame him for the steroid look though.

 

I think if Becky's canning hadn't been reversed they probably wouldn't've fired Tyler. Ingo probably still would have gone though I'm sure.

[LeftPhalange]

Why do Lucy and Bobbie not like each other? Is it because of Scott?

[SlovakPrincess]

Why do Lucy and Bobbie not like each other? Is it because of Scott?

 

 

Ooh, ooh, I know this one!  At least, I know why Bobbie would hate Lucy.  If memory serves, right around the time before BJ's death, Bobbie cheated on Tony with a dude named Damian.  Of course, it was her own fault for cheating, but Damian manipulated the situation somehow (maybe he faked her out into thinking Tony had cheated first?  I forget that part ...)  Anyhoo .... the reason Damian started targeting Bobbie at all is because he and Lucy had made some weird bet that he couldn't seduce any woman he wanted.  Lucy said "how about Bobbie?"

 

Somehow, after her marriage went to shit, Bobbie found out about the bet.  Lucy's lame-o excuse when confronted was: "but I only challenged him to go after you because I was sure he would fail, because you would never cheat!"   I think I have that right.

 

Possibly, there was tension before that, over Tony.  Lucy reacted strongly to BJ's death ... so I figure she must have had some connection to Tony before he got with Bobbie, but I don't really remember a Tony / Lucy matchup. 

[jennifer6973]

No, it's a lot more then that.

 

Way back when, Lucy was bad bad news and she suckered (according to Bobbie, but I agree) Tony into marrying her after Tania died.  Every chance she had, she threw it in Bobbie's face.

 

 

Also I think before that Lucy messed with Terry's (Bobbie's step-daughter with Brock) marriage to Kevin.

Edited July 23, 2014 by jennifer6973

[SlovakPrincess]

Ah, that fills in some gaps.  Tania must have been BJ's mother - always wondered who that kid's mom was!

 

I can't even imagine Tony and Lucy together.  They seem so mis-matched!  Although perhaps that was the point ...

 

Lucy and Scott could be fun back in the day.  I hated her after she got with Kevin, though.  Maybe because she always called him "Doc," and she had a pet duck and it was fucking stupid that she had a pet duck.  In the city. 

[dubbel zout]

Aw, I liked Sigmund. It was an interesting choice of pet. They overdid the quackiness (sorry! I had to!), of course.

Edited July 23, 2014 by dubbel zout

[GHScorpiosRule]

I don't know if Bobbie ever found out, but Lucy also had sex with Bobbie's hubby, Jake, who was defending Lucy for some murder or something.

[jennifer6973]

Yes, Tania was BJ's mother and was killed in a car accident.  BJ was named after Bobbie, thus some of the heartbreak on Bobbie's part when Tony married Lucy.

 

I think Bobbie knew about that too.  Plus during her time with Tony, Lucy cheated on him with Scott.

Edited July 23, 2014 by jennifer6973

[SlovakPrincess]

I'm not really sure why I reacted so strongly to the duck, to be honest.  Maybe it was because I had grown tired of her character, and so everything she did started to bug me to irrational levels.  "Who keeps a pet duck in the city?!  Stupid bitch!"

 

I think this was also around the time of the doggie love story, so maybe it was Cute Animal Overload. 

[dubbel zout]

I thought the Annabel and Foster thing was cute until, inevitably, they overdid it. But I'd take that back in heartbeat if it meant I didn't have to watch the kiddie crap that's on now.

[Harmony233]

Actually Bobbie and lucy hate each other because Bobbie was married to this lawyer Jake and he slept with lucy and she got pregnant.Bobbie did find out and lucy was going to give the baby to bobbie and jake but then lucy miscarried.They have a bad history.Kinda weird Jake wasn't mentioned in their fight today.

 

Also lucy married tony next.She was always obessed with money lol.omehow something happened to tony where he had to have an operation and tony wanted bobbie to have cusody of BJ and then Lucy decided she wanted custody also.Then of course their was the bet with Damien smith for him to seduce bobbie ect.

 

Another thing that annoyed the shit out of me was the recton that lucy was some great mother To BJ.She wasn't.BJ sallowed finger nail polish remover because lucy wasn't watching her and it almost killed her.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Harmony233

[jsbt]

They did overdo the kids and dogs a bit in Labine's day but I have nothing but fond love for those memories now. It was good stuff, occasionally cloying (which is why the grittier OLTL ultimately became my main soap as a tween) but good.

 

I've always liked stories that used kids, because it's a show about families, soaps are about families and because when I started watching the ABC soaps I definitely identified with Lucky and Robin and then Emily a bit. My problem with the current stuff is it's too much, too precocious and just glib and sort of cynical - the kids have no heart, it's just one-liners. And most of them can't act. Josslyn can but that's it. Spencer can be fun but he's not an actor - he is constantly mugging for the control room and there is no soul to the kid beneath all the jokes. They could develop him into a real character and performer if they tried, but they don't. Lucky, Robin, Emily, etc., those kids were three-dimensional.

Edited July 23, 2014 by jsbt

[Carrie Ann]

Lucky and Emily were supposed to be pre-teens when they started on the show, right? JJ's Lucky is actually what sucked me in to GH in the summer of '94. And Emily didn't show up until a couple years later, and I don't remember any "romantic" stories for him in between. I could be mistaken.

 

But anyway, I think there's a huge difference between young teen love stories and freaking NINE year olds in a love quad. For one, the odds of finding four decent young kid actors is slim to none. So spending a lot of time with them in scenes together is just painful. But two, nine year olds shouldn't be involved in love stories. One or two scenes hinting at a future conflict between Cam and Spencer over Emma would be kinda cute. But a whole storyline about it is ridiculous and off-putting.

 

Also, none of those kids is developing an actual friendship with the others, which is what made the L/L/E/N Fab Four so appealing to me. They all had friendships/relationships with each other that were meaningful and believable. Again, too much to ask of nine-year-olds, probably, but it would be more appealing to watch Cam and Spence become friends than to watch this silly farcical crap.

[Chairperson Meow]

I don't understand. Who is Cam's father? Has Lucky been baby daddy to any of Liz's kids? Was it just Jake and dead Zander?

[dubbel zout]

Cam's bio father is Zander. Jake's bio father was Jason. Aidan's bio dad is Lucky. Lucky considered all the kids his, regardless of paternity.

[Chairperson Meow]

My God. How the hell do you keep it straight? That's why I hate Liz. She gives me headaches. I just can't with her.

So Lucas.... son of Julian/Cheryl but adopted by Bobbie/Tony. Did Tony have any bio kids?

[jennifer6973]

BJ with Tania

[Chairperson Meow]

And they slaughtered her to save Maxie.

I wonder what BJ would be like now. She wouldn't be dating Levi.

[jsbt]

They did that fantasy episode some years ago where Kirsten Storms played B.J. in a lousy red wig. The world had gone to shit because Maxie died and good girl B.J. had lived. Patrick was married to...uh...was it Carly? So Guza and JFP could continue to get their "anyone but Robin" fix satisfied? Bobbie and Monica were incompetent drunks about to be fired, I believe. Shit like that.

[Chairperson Meow]

I don't buy that. Guza sucked during his second run.

[Francie]

Bill Echart has no reason to hate Sonny

 

Could someone please tell if my memory's right or wrong about this, as my recollection of the events of 1993-97 were as follows:

 

Sonny worked for the mob. He was kinda low level, running a strip club. Frank Smith was the head of that mob.

 

Then, Luke and Laura come back to town in late 1993, having been forced out of hiding by Frank Smith. Once in Port Charles, Frank Smith's men target Luke, but accidently kill Bill instead.

 

After that, Luke decides to work for Frank Smith in some sort of "keep your enemy close" kinda plan. Luke and Sonny are assigned to work together.  But Frank Smith orders Sonny to kill Luke, which Sonny doesn't want to do because he's grown attached to both Luke and Laura.

 

Somehow, Luke gets out from under the mob. Frank Smith is neutralized, and this part I don't remember, but I assume he was killed.

 

So now Luke is out of the mob, but somehow Sonny stays in. And this time it's Lily's dad, Rivera, who now runs the mob. Sonny moves up the chain, though, and is Rivera's right-hand man.  

 

Lily's father is killed. There's creepy cave sex with Brenda next to his dead body. And, presto, Sonny's in charge of the Port Charles mob.

 

So, if that's all correct, wouldn't Bill Eckert, if he were shot and presumably killed by Frank Smith's men but somehow managed to survive, have a beef with Sonny?  Sure, it wasn't Sonny's orders, it was Frank Smith's, that got him shot.  And Sonny didn't pull the trigger, but Sonny was all mixed up with them and then grew powerful because Frank Smith's neutralization (death?) gave Rivera the opening to take over, and then Sonny took over after that? So, Sonny became all powerful, and meanwhile Bill was shot and hurt or kidnapped or whatever happened before he himself got all powerful. I mean, that's if Bill is, in fact -- and this is speculation -- Fluke.  

 

Have I lost you all?  Probably, lol.

[dubbel zout]

Luke killed Frank Smith.

[jsbt]

It's a stretch but I agree that is enough of a motivation for RC. Bill Eckert often struggled with his dark, venal side and strove for more power and wealth, to live a bigger, better life. He had many different phases onscreen. He dabbled in the underworld. He was killed by Frank Smith's men who were gunning for Luke. Sonny Corinthos became the big man in Port Charles with money and power while Bill faded into obscurity. Sonny's rise came on the back of his former boss, whose men killed Bill - instead of Luke.

 

It's a bit of a stretch but in Ron's world, and as soap logic goes, IMO it is enough.

Edited July 23, 2014 by jsbt

[ulkis]

They did that fantasy episode some years ago where Kirsten Storms played B.J. in a lousy red wig. The world had gone to shit because Maxie died and good girl B.J. had lived. Patrick was married to...uh...was it Carly? So Guza and JFP could continue to get their "anyone but Robin" fix satisfied? Bobbie and Monica were incompetent drunks about to be fired, I believe. Shit like that.

 

And there was this weird "Lulu would have ended up a miserable cynical bitch waitressing at Kelly's if Maxie had died" side plot. Which was weird, because Lulu pretty much WAS a miserable cynical bitch at the time anyway? More so than usual, lol. Maybe it was the waitressing at Kelly's that was supposed to be the awful part.

Edited July 24, 2014 by ulkis

[Francie]

I appreciate the response, jsbt. I agree, the link is tenuously, but it's technically there. And that's oftentimes enough for RC.

[jsbt]

And there was this weird "Lulu would have ended up a miserable cynical bitch waitressing at Kelly's if Maxie had died" side plot. Which was weird, because Lulu pretty much WAS a miserable cynical bitch at the time anyway?

 

Until Julie Berman left, you mean.

[ulkis]

Until Julie Berman left, you mean.

 

Nope :p 

[jsbt]

Nope :p 

 

Eh!

[rur]

 

Sonny was all mixed up with them and then grew powerful because Frank Smith's neutralization (death?) gave Rivera the opening to take over, and then Sonny took over after that?

 

Sonny made some kind of deal w/ Rivera in the wake of Frank Smith's death. I believe Rivera agreed to make Sonny the head of the mob in PC  if Sonny would marry Lily. (She had told her father that she wanted Sonny.)

[Chairperson Meow]

And clink boom! True love!

I'm sorry. I just love that montage.

[rur]

I agree, Grrpants. It was one of the best ones ever done on the show, IMO.

Edited July 24, 2014 by rur

[SlovakPrincess]

Man, was Flea always so um slow with people?

 

Felicia's IQ has seemed to fluctuate with the needs of the plot over the decades.  In the 80s, she started out very young and naive, but by the end of the decade, she was solving mysteries with Frisco, Robert, and Anna - and she was fairly smart. 

 

When she came back in the early 90s, with the amnesia, they seemed to make her a little dumb and a little childish.  Like, she had a hard time finding a job she could do at first, because she acted like a ditz.  The fact that the actress has a naturally high, chirpy voice doesn't really help, but the writers did Felicia no favors by trying to make her winningly cute and flirty around Mac, and say silly things. 

[jsbt]

Felicia can do no wrong with me anymore. She's come a long way. Yeah, she's perky, she always has been. That's just her and Kristina Wagner. And honestly, Kristina, while not an untalented (or amazing) actress, did some of the best work of her time on GH last spring without really acting at all - when Jack Wagner came back. She looked absolutely heartsick and overcome at any given moment they were together. I really felt for her and at times - especially during his musical numbers, which were very good - her face was hard to watch. By most accounts, there was not much acting involved given their history. I am so glad they did not force a Frisco/Felicia reunion on her.

 

Actually, there was one time Felicia could do wrong with me, and that was the other day, when they put bullshit dialogue in her mouth, having her urge Lucy to go after Scott. Really, Felicia? Felicia, the woman who lost everything thanks to her fling with Luke? Felicia knows better. She wouldn't do that. At best she should've just smiled and said, 'whatever makes you happy, Lucy.'

Edited July 24, 2014 by jsbt

[UYI]

The amazing thing about Kristina Wagner as Felicia is that before she got GH in 1984 (30 years ago, y'all--I'm 25, so that doesn't mean as much to me right now *ducks for cover*), she was a college girl in Indianapolis married to her first husband, Peter Malandro (hence her original last name on GH--Crump is her maiden name). There was a nationwide search for the part of Felicia, and being from Indianapolis, the closest place for KW to audition was in Chicago--I remember her saying in the GH coffee table book how Gloria Monty thought she had a terrible resume but they loved her head shot. She got called for a call back the next day and had to drive back to Chicago, then got the part and moved to LA. In her interview for the special 50th anniversary SOD magazine they did for GH last year, she talked about how everything--the climate, the time zone, her whole life--instantly changed, and she was only 22 years old. And, of course, it wound up ending her first marriage, although she did get Jack and her kids out of it.

 

I don't know, those kinds of contests seem to be the sorts of things nowadays that guarantee that the character won't be around for long, and here Felicia has lasted--off and on--for almost 30 years!

 

Well done, Kristina. I think that's pretty cool. And you're still damn beautiful, too :) .

Edited July 24, 2014 by UYI

[SlovakPrincess]

She looked absolutely heartsick and overcome at any given moment they were together. I really felt for her and at times - especially during his musical numbers, which were very good - her face was hard to watch. By most accounts, there was not much acting involved given their history. I am so glad they did not force a Frisco/Felicia reunion on her.

 

 

Why, are they not together anymore in real life?  :(

[UYI]

No. They had actually been on and off again several times even before they got married in 1993, IIRC (they had their first son before then--I think that was Maxie onscreen), but after at least one time where they had filed for divorce before getting back together again in the early 2000s, they divorced for good in about 2006, I think. 

 

Random memory: I remember in 2000, back when they were still married, seeing them in one of those as seen on TV/call the number on this screen ads for something called Forever White, which I guess, was some method for whitening teeth. Very bizarre.

Edited July 25, 2014 by UYI

[jsbt]

Jack and Kristina had a series of very public separations and reunions and finally divorced. He did not treat her well.

[SlovakPrincess]

Well, dang.  That's too bad! 

[UYI]

I remember hearing last year that the main reason Jack sang All I Need instead of Lady of my Heart at the Nurses Ball was because the latter song was just as much Jack & Kristina's song as it was Frisco & Felicia's, if not moreso. He wrote it for her! It probably would have been way too painful for both of them. 

Edited July 25, 2014 by UYI

[Francie]

I remember hearing last year that the main reason Jack sang All I Need instead of Lady of my Heart at the Nurses Ball was because the latter song was just as much Jack & Kristina's song as it was Frisco & Felicia's, if not moreso. He wrote it for her! It probably would have been way too painful for both of them. 

Just to add even more to what you've said (which I agree with):

 

All I Need was also his big hit.  Lady of My Heart wasn't quite as popular. I can see Ron and Frank wanting Jack to sing his signature hit, just as they wanted Rick Springfield to sing his.

 

All I Need was never performed for Felicia on GH before then because Jack wrote it for Hillary Edson (Is that her name?), the actress who played Tanja, and then performed it on GH as Frisco singing it to Tanja. 

 

Tanja wound up with Frisco's brother, Tony, instead.

[rur]

"All I Need" came out around the same time that music videos were really big. When Frisco sang it on GH, there was a real effort to make the scene more . . . "videoesque" than the rest of the show. It would probably look cheesy now, but at the time it was a fairly groundbreaking thing to do, especially for daytime TV.

[Ambrosefolly]

Sonny is responsible for Michael's rape in prison. Jason carefully brokered a peace with AZ in which AZ would keep Michael safe in prison in exchange for Sonny leaving JZ alone. Sonny had such a hair up his ass that he negated that peace and AZ no longer kept Michael safe. I wish that the writers, Jason and Michael remembered this. Sonny ruins everything including his son's safety.

And Sonny was largely responsible for Michael ending up in prison in the first place.  Had he (along with Carly and Jason) not engaged in their absurd shenanigans to cover up what was, originally, a likely "In defense of others" case, the judge wouldn't have lost his shit all over them and sent Michael to prison to teach him (and his idiot family) a lesson.  So Sonny's dumb ass sent Michael to prison and then ruined the deal Jason made to keep the kid protected there, and sat back and let Jason throw himself in prison, too, as a last ditch effort to try and clean up Sonny's mess, which, of course, happened too late to prevent Michael's rape.  I'd LOVE if Michael, when he finds out about AJ, finally has that damn burst moment of clarity with regard to Sonny and throws his role in his prison rape right in his face.  Oh, and I almost forgot, he's also the reason Michael even needed to conk Claudia over the head, since she was on a rampage after Sonny decided to publicly humiliate her.

 

The whole reason Michael even wound up in that coma is because it was a botched hit on Sonny's life . He kidnapped, imprisoned and  tortured Johnny, Claudia was just following the mob bible about what to do when someone fucks with you. When Claudia found out she point blank told him to release Johnny immediately and nothing would happen, keep him and he would not like how it will end. He kept him, even after he found out Johnny had nothing to do with Michael's disappearance and Kate's shooting.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Stinger97
Moved from the 'Spoiler' thread.