GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[CPP83]

I might be remembering this wrong, but didn't that Manny dude also have a "See, not my fault!" brain tumor?

 

 

 

I know he had a twin, a priest I believe...and I do know Alexis somehow successful defended him in court against the charges dealing with Sam.

 

I remember it was right before she and Sam found out they were daughter and mum and Sam basically lost it on Alexis for defending the man who had terrorized her for so long and getting him released. So they may have played the "tumour" defense then.

[OnceSane]

They played the tumor defense, but it was made clear that he was faking his remorse and changed behavior. IOW, Alexis used the tumor defense to get Manny acquitted, but most (if not all) people knew it was BS.

Manny's twin, Mateo, was a priest and was one of the hostages when Mr. Craig/Jerry Jacks held everyone at the MetroCourt. I kinda wish he'd stayed around especially after he stabbed one of the gunmen.

[CPP83]

Right because after his acquittal he shot Sam on the roof top when she was there at that function with Jason.

 

I recall this piece of history rather well because her getting shot led to the whole damaged womb outcome and being told she'd never be able to have anymore children (yeah right), and Alexis finding out about Sam being her daughter and then promptly badgering Jason to up and leave Sam in a hospital bed because she suddenly knew what was best for the daughter she'd been at odds with for years and who blamed her for killing not only her daughter but her brother as well.

 

I remember thinking how could everything go so wrong so quickly, heh, then I remembered who was in charge, Guza and what else did I really expect.

 

I wish they would have kept Robert around as well, at least for a bit longer. He really is a very talented actor I feel and he could play a "good guy" no problem.

Edited January 15, 2015 by CPP83

[jsbt]

Manny's twin, Mateo, was a priest and was one of the hostages when Mr. Craig/Jerry Jacks held everyone at the MetroCourt. I kinda wish he'd stayed around especially after he stabbed one of the gunmen.

 

I remember the twin. That was so fucking stupid. This is what I mean when I say Manny and all that shit went on forever. It got so dumb. I thought they were playing with the idea that he really was Manny, too. What happened to the twin?

 

I mean, sure, I would not mind him on the show now in some role. But at that time, it was just Manny Ruiz as Jason Voorhees. And it was all focused on Sam and Jason, who I found to be the two most boring people on the show.

Edited January 15, 2015 by jsbt

[CPP83]

I think the twin just left? I don't think he was killed off but I can't remember, Guza really was hacking people left and right back then.

[jsbt]

That wouldn't surprise me. When was that, 2007? They had a lot of detritus floating around in the couple of years prior to that that they had to jettison (in addition to what they did to Stuart Damon, which is the primary reason I have never, ever warmed to the Metro Court stunt story everyone else seems to like - that's when I walked away from most of the show beyond sporadic periods of viewing, until Guza was gone).

Edited January 15, 2015 by jsbt

[GHScorpiosRule]

No, the twin, Matteo was killed off. either a gunshot wound to the stomach or a knife. I'm not clear on the details. But he died onscreen. That much I do remember.

[OnceSane]

Mateo was shot after stabbing one of Jerry's goons, but he recovered. Then was seen only once or twice after that before disappearing from the canvas. But he was alive the last time we saw him, I'm almost positive.

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Yes, OnceSane, my Google-Fu tells me that Mateo survived being shot in the chest, but wasn't seen much on canvas after that. Also, I had forgotten that he was a priest at Sonny's church, or all things.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Manny's twin, Mateo, was a priest and was one of the hostages when Mr. Craig/Jerry Jacks held everyone at the MetroCourt. I kinda wish he'd stayed around especially after he stabbed one of the gunmen.

 

I got chills when I saw him under the hood. Evil oozed from his pores. It was delicious.  

 

SB/Jerry was also another cold blooded villein that I loved to hate. He was nothing like RC's cartoon villeins that have overtaken PC. 

 

They played the tumor defense, but it was made clear that he was faking his remorse and changed behavior. IOW, Alexis used the tumor defense to get Manny acquitted, but most (if not all) people knew it was BS.

 

I recall this piece of history rather well because her getting shot led to the whole damaged womb outcome and being told she'd never be able to have anymore children (yeah right), and Alexis finding out about Sam being her daughter and then promptly badgering Jason to up and leave Sam in a hospital bed because she suddenly knew what was best for the daughter she'd been at odds with for years and who blamed her for killing not only her daughter but her brother as well.

 

 

I hated Alexis so much during that time .....

Edited January 16, 2015 by Deputy Deputy CoS

[SlovakPrincess]

I always felt like Jason didn't leave Sam just because Alexis told him to.  Jason left Sam because he felt guilty she got shot in the babymaker, because he was the target and it was his mob business that caused the shooting.  If he hadn't agreed with Alexis on some level - that being his girlfriend means getting shot at - he would have told Alexis to shove it.  And Robin got shot at and nearly blown up when she was with Jason, and I'm sure his other girlfriends were targets, too.  Alexis has always annoyed me, but she had a point on that one.

 

That whole storyline was annoying, though, and everyone in it was annoying.  And I never liked the long-lost connection between Sam and Alexis.  Or the Ric/Sam and Jason/Liz sex that resulted from the whole mess.  Just ... no.  

[ulkis]

Cattitude, I'm posting this old Dante/Lulu clip for you, mostly because a) Dante actually has normal hair in a pre-2012 clip and b) oh my gosh, Dominic looks soooo young here. Of course it was 5 years ago, but he looks even younger than he was at the time

 

ETA: although Lulu's hot topic tee is horrific

 

Edited January 16, 2015 by ulkis

[CPP83]

I hated Alexis so much during that time .....

 

 

Oh so did I, so did I...I had never really liked her but during that time I as at my limit with her every single time she popped up on screen.

 

 

 

I always felt like Jason didn't leave Sam just because Alexis told him to.  Jason left Sam because he felt guilty she got shot in the babymaker, because he was the target and it was his mob business that caused the shooting.  If he hadn't agreed with Alexis on some level - that being his girlfriend means getting shot at - he would have told Alexis to shove it.  And Robin got shot at and nearly blown up when she was with Jason, and I'm sure his other girlfriends were targets, too.  Alexis has always annoyed me, but she had a point on that one.

 

That whole storyline was annoying, though, and everyone in it was annoying.  And I never liked the long-lost connection between Sam and Alexis.  Or the Ric/Sam and Jason/Liz sex that resulted from the whole mess.  Just ... no.  

 

 

 

Oh Jason was an assy ass to leave Sam the way he did and he did make the choice of his own free will, but I was still annoyed by Alexis suddenly acting as if she alone had Sam's best interest at heart and her first line of business was to get her away from Jason. The one person who supported Sam, though I begrudgingly say that, during the times Alexis directly affected her life in the worst possible ways.

 

Frankly I had wanted Sam away ffrom Jason since they were first paired together, but the whole Alexis playing "Mama bear" to the woman she couldn't stand and vice versa just days before was too much. Being biologically related shouldn't just wipe away years of bad blood.

 

To me the way it played out made it appear as if Sam was suddenly her property, and since I already disliked Alexis as much, if not more, as I liked Sam back then it was just...

 

It was annoying and stupid to me, especially making Sam and Alexis mother and daughter in the first place. I still feel that wasn't the least bit necessary.

 

Sam could have been related to anyone, at one point I had hoped they might make her Mac's daughter but alas...

 

She would have been Robert and Anna's niece, cousin to Robin, big sister to Maxie and Georgie, it just worked in my head but of course the show would have her be a Cassadine.

[Harmony233]

I'm the opposite.I had taken a break from GH in like 2003-2006.whenever Robert came back.When I came back I found sam to be one of the most insufferable characters which was weird because I loved Livvie.I wasn't even an Alexis fan but I was totally on her side when the show was claiming Jasamn were good and Alexis was evil.I did root for sam in the Jason/Liz/Sam tri even though I didn't think Jason was worth it lol.Other than that the last few years sam has been pretty harmless other than boring me lol.

[ulkis]

I fucking hated Sam in 2006. Oh my gosh, she ranted at alexis every fucking day. When Alexis told her to get out because she was crap and to get out if she had no other aspirations besides being Jason's mob moll, I cheered (even though I actually did feel bad for Sam in that moment. Alexis *did* go too far, and she knew it, but understood why Alexis snapped and I think Sam did too eventually). I'm okay with her more or less now but it took a long time for me to warm up to the character because of that period.

Edited January 16, 2015 by ulkis

[CPP83]

I pretty much had given up on Sam reaching her full potential in 2005, I think it was after the dancing island nonsense. I still...the less said about that awfulness the better.

 

They just didn't know what the hell to do with her so I knew there'd be a hail Mary pass thrown in at some point to try and save the character which of course turned out to be her somehow being Alexis' long lost offspring. And it was straight down hill after that, imho.

 

I just couldn't stand any of them at all. Jason pushing Sam away, Sam basically acting as if she needed to be committed, and Alexis being Alexis, and then Ric and Sam slept together and Jason and Liz screwed in a bell tower and I was done, heh, I checked out for nearly eight years thanks to that bullshit.

[jsbt]

I fucking hated Sam in 2006. Oh my gosh, she ranted at alexis every fucking day. When Alexis told her to get out because she was crap and to get out if she had no other aspirations besides being Jason's mob moll, I cheered (even though I actually did feel bad for Sam in that moment. Alexis *did* go too far, and she knew it, but understood why Alexis snapped and I think Sam did too eventually). I'm okay with her more or less now but it took a long time for me to warm up to the character because of that period.

 

I've hated Sam most years. Since Jason left her life she's become a lot more tolerable.

[ulkis]

Before that Sam was barely on my radar, once they connected her to Alexis it was like "who IS this? Go away and stop yelling at your fake mom!" And I can actually totally see how if you were a Sam fan before that Alexis would be annoying as hell too. They're okay now but that mother/daughter match-up was so contrived in the beginning.

[dubbel zout]

that mother/daughter match-up was so contrived in the beginning.

 

The long-lost child/parent thing usually is. Ethan/Luke remains for me the most WTF surprise child.

[ulkis]

That was ridiculous, when it could have been so easily NOT contrived. There are tons of periods in Luke's life when he could have fathered a child with another woman. Guza was such an ass. (and Tony, quite frankly. I always think of this interview when I think of Ethan:)

 

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2009/05/the-people-vs-tony-geary.html

Edited January 17, 2015 by ulkis

[CPP83]

The long-lost child/parent thing usually is. Ethan/Luke remains for me the most WTF surprise child.

 

 

 

Franco being Scotty and Heather's take the cake for me. I mean for god's sake they couldn't even have had the sex necessary to produce the damn kid in the first place.

 

Of course that is also why I refuse to believe he is their kid. I'm still in the camp that the SERIAL KILLER is really a pod person.

[Harmony233]

Franco being Scotty and Heather's take the cake for me. I mean for god's sake they couldn't even have had the sex necessary to produce the damn kid in the first place.

 

Of course that is also why I refuse to believe he is their kid. I'm still in the camp that the SERIAL KILLER is really a pod person.

I think the thing that annoys me the most is they didn't even have to rewrite history so giving them a child wouldn't have been that suprising since they was still hooking up when heather left town.Although I always thought Logan would have made more sense to be there kid lol.

[sometimesfan]

I've hated Sam most years. Since Jason left her life she's become a lot more tolerable.

 

I don't think I ever liked her.

That was ridiculous, when it could have been so easily NOT contrived. There are tons of periods in Luke's life when he could have fathered a child with another woman. Guza was such an ass. (and Tony, quite frankly. I always think of this interview when I think of Ethan:)

 

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2009/05/the-people-vs-tony-geary.html

 

SO MUCH AGREEMENT HERE!  And honestly there's no way Holly was going to cheat on Robert back then. They weren't even in Australia that long before she supposedly died and he returned to the show.

[Tiger]

That was ridiculous, when it could have been so easily NOT contrived. There are tons of periods in Luke's life when he could have fathered a child with another woman. Guza was such an ass. (and Tony, quite frankly. I always think of this interview when I think of Ethan:)

 

http://serialdrama.typepad.com/serial_drama/2009/05/the-people-vs-tony-geary.html

 

Shut the fuck up Tony.  You saw Nathan Parsons' audition for Dante so you royally screwed the history of the show and pissed all over the fans so you could lick your lips and lust after you latest boy toy and get paid for it.   

[ulkis]

lol. But it honestly wasn't Tony's idea to bring Nathan aboard. The casting director was like "we like this kid we're gonna cast him as your son" and Tony and he pretty much hit it off instantly. The rest of the douchebaggery is all Geary's though.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ulkis

[Harmony233]

I thougt orginally they as going to cast him as Roberts son but that TG wanted him to be his son.I could totally be off the mark here.TG confuses me sometimes lol I remeber him complaining about wanting luke to be more than a father yet he was okay with luke having a long lost kid.

[ulkis]

No, I don't think they ever planned to cast him as Robert's son. The story was they saw him in casting and they said his energy reminded them of Tony Geary, so they wanted to give him a role. for whatever reason though they decided to tease the audience that maybe he was Robert's son.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ulkis

[Chairperson Meow]

I never got why KeMo's character Livvie from Port Charles wasn't brought over. Just retcon the vampire crap. She was Kevin's daughter, Lucy's stepdaughter. They could have retooled ME as McBain on GH, which would have worked better imo. Livvie was more interesting than Sam. She was kind of bitchy, but sweet. Maybe because she could out Carly Carly? Or she would have killed Sonny or Jason rather than sleep with them?

[CPP83]

I had hoped that they would just bring Livvie from PC in the beginning, but Guza was determined to fashion his own creation for Kelly to portray that wouldn't be compared to Livvie, which is why she got off to such a rocky start, imho.

 

I'll never forget just how big of a colossal failure the Sam and Jax pairing turned out to be, and that is how she was first introduced on the show. And them they decided to "fix it" by putting her with Sonny.

 

Kelly was at her best as Livvie though, imho, she had such a fire when playing the character.

 

With Sam though they always kept going back and forth on what sort of personality she was meant to have, sometimes she was a bad ass who was strong and confident and then suddenly she'd be a weepy mess who needed her "princely saviour Jason" to pick up the pieces and put her back together again.

[Chairperson Meow]

That "your sweet Olivia " clip from Port Charles on you tube makes me wonder why the hell ME and KeMo couldn't spark this time completely, then I remember Ron wrote it.

[Harmony233]

personally never seen a soap where two former actors who were paired on another show could generate heat lol.

[Tiger]

personally never seen a soap where two former actors who were paired on another show could generate heat lol.

 

I saw a lot of chemistry between McBain & Sam, but then absolutely none between Silas & Sam.  

 

Similarly, I thought SBr Carly & Sonny had it, but when she played Claudia she had chemistry with literally every male except for Mo.  

[sometimesfan]

That "your sweet Olivia " clip from Port Charles on you tube makes me wonder why the hell ME and KeMo couldn't spark this time completely, then I remember Ron wrote it.

 

It was a bad idea from the start. He wasn't Caleb, he was John McBain with a wife/girl friend/significant other/fiancé (depending on the writer of the day) and a baby at home. It would work for fans of Caleb and Livvie and probably for anybody who hated Natalie, but it certainly didn't work for the John and Natalie fans Ron and Frank (and Michael) thought would embrace it.

[Ambrosefolly]

Meh, Carly acted shittily but Tony was a grown ass man. Yes, he was depressed from BJ but he still had the power to control whether to zip up his pants are not. Carly screwed him over but she was very young and nuts, the worst thing she did to him was lie about the paternity of her baby. That's a big disappointment for him but it's not on her that he went crazy afterwards.

If Guza had allowed Tony to have some self reflection after the affair imploded and the reveal of Carly as Bobbie's daughter, I would be fine with heaping blame on Tony. Instead of telling the story of a good man's fall from grace and the rebuilding of his life, they turned Tony into a mustache twirling villain to prop up Carly and then he made him a non entity. I didn't watch all of the clips, but when Carly lost the first of the CarSon's babies, was there a moment between Tony and Carly (seeing as he was one of her doctors) about his feelings towards Carly and what she was going through? 

[Harmony233]

If Guza had allowed Tony to have some self reflection after the affair imploded and the reveal of Carly as Bobbie's daughter, I would be fine with heaping blame on Tony. Instead of telling the story of a good man's fall from grace and the rebuilding of his life, they turned Tony into a mustache twirling villain to prop up Carly and then he made him a non entity. I didn't watch all of the clips, but when Carly lost the first of the CarSon's babies, was there a moment between Tony and Carly (seeing as he was one of her doctors) about his feelings towards Carly and what she was going through? 

yes when she lost the baby Tony told her he wouldn't wish losing a child on anybody.

 

speaking of carson losing there baby I was watching when lucy and scott lost there baby and comparing it.THey weren't potrayed as innocent victims or Alan as an evil villian the way poor AJ was.Plus lucys scheme to get more money out of the Q's she was portrayed as wrong and rightlfully so.Unlike Carly and sonny who we were supposed to feel for and root for.

[ulkis]

If Guza had allowed Tony to have some self reflection after the affair imploded and the reveal of Carly as Bobbie's daughter, I would be fine with heaping blame on Tony. Instead of telling the story of a good man's fall from grace and the rebuilding of his life, they turned Tony into a mustache twirling villain to prop up Carly and then he made him a non entity. I didn't watch all of the clips, but when Carly lost the first of the CarSon's babies, was there a moment between Tony and Carly (seeing as he was one of her doctors) about his feelings towards Carly and what she was going through? 

 

It's not that I am heaping blame on Tony per se, it's that I don't see Carly really responsible for his mental breakdown. It was a long time coming, and she was just the last straw. I get why Lucas is fine with Carly 20+ years later after the events happened.

[ulkis]

Continuing some of the Ethan talk from yesterday, I realized in a week or two he will now be gone longer than he was actually on the show. Take that, dismal footnote in GH History.

 

But yet I watched that clip where he held Kristina's hand and Luke was all "that jailbait wants you" and Ethan replies, "she's 18." And then it made me be sad about the missed possibility. Don't ask me to be consistent!

Edited January 17, 2015 by ulkis

[CPP83]

I  had no idea that the Ethan actor actually first tried out to play Dante, that's a bit...surprising, heh. It certainly would have made things a little interesting I guess.

 

I wonder if they would have pulled a Levi with him and have him fake an accent or would they have tied whomever ended up being his mum to Australia or something. 

 

Good lord, that would also have meant another Sonny's baby Mama to make up who would not have been Olivia..scary thought. 

[ulkis]

He's not really Australian. I think he was born there but his parents are American and he was only Australia for six months. He's from Texas. He just decided to do an Australian accent at his audition for no reason and they kept it.

Edited January 17, 2015 by ulkis

[CPP83]

Oh well the more you know. I can only remember maybe a scene or two of Ethan's and I remembered the accent he had. I guess that would have meant he'd been more successful sounding "American" than the Levi actor did then, heh.

 

Though I am not surprised they didn't pick him to be Dante, the look's all wrong, imho. At least when it comes to Sonny's biological sons it would appear that the casting directors have done their best to match the actors' to Maurice, to show a clear resemblance.

[UYI]

All this talk about Carly and whether she truly regrets what she did to Tony made me go and find this:

 

 

This is right after Tony died, and shortly after LW joined the show. Of course, it's a case of too little too late, given Tony was already dead, and YMMV on whether her apology was sincere or not, but here it is.

Edited January 17, 2015 by UYI

[MSquared]

This is the only reason I can buy that Carly and Lucas may have some kind of relationship.  And I have always taken this as, yes, Bobbie did, at last, forgive her daughter for all the shit from when Carly showed up.

 

And look, Carly is truly remorseful for her actions!  Maybe she should remember this in her dealings with her son.

[TeeVee329]

It's a nice enough scene that Laura Wright is very good in (and you look at stuff like that and it's like, see, she can play Carly remorseful and repentant, why not let her play this situation with Michael that way), but I kinda wish Bobbie hadn't gone on and on about excusing what she did.  She should have just accepted the apology.

 

And I guess my problem with Carly's relationship with Lucas is the usual problems - it exists mostly off-screen and it's mostly about what Lucas can do for Carly, not the other way round.

Edited January 17, 2015 by TeeVee329

[Ambrosefolly]

It's not that I am heaping blame on Tony per se, it's that I don't see Carly really responsible for his mental breakdown. It was a long time coming, and she was just the last straw. I get why Lucas is fine with Carly 20+ years later after the events happened.

While I get why Lucas not carrying an all consuming grudge in regards to Carly, I wish they wouldn't have him as one of her defenders because he knows just how destructive she can be. We never saw a scene with Carly giving a sincere apology to him about her hand in his father's breakdown. She ruined a good hunk of his childhood because she was anger at Bobbie for a reason that any therapist, or any person would deem as irrational, no matter what the age. No one gave Tony a pass because he was still reeling from BJ's death, why should people give Carly a pass because she was young and still is mentally imbalanced? I am glad Luke called her out on it. 

[UYI]

I know it isn't Christmas anymore, but I have to post this:

 

 

The only thing wrong with this is that Alan didn't injure his hand when he tried to kill Rick and Monica (hee!), he injured it before he ever came to work at GH, ending his career as a surgeon and forcing him to become a general practitioner. 

Edited January 18, 2015 by UYI

[Jazzy24]

Oh so did I, so did I...I had never really liked her but during that time I as at my limit with her every single time she popped up on screen.

Oh Jason was an assy ass to leave Sam the way he did and he did make the choice of his own free will, but I was still annoyed by Alexis suddenly acting as if she alone had Sam's best interest at heart and her first line of business was to get her away from Jason. The one person who supported Sam, though I begrudgingly say that, during the times Alexis directly affected her life in the worst possible ways.

Frankly I had wanted Sam away ffrom Jason since they were first paired together, but the whole Alexis playing "Mama bear" to the woman she couldn't stand and vice versa just days before was too much. Being biologically related shouldn't just wipe away years of bad blood.

To me the way it played out made it appear as if Sam was suddenly her property, and since I already disliked Alexis as much, if not more, as I liked Sam back then it was just...

It was annoying and stupid to me, especially making Sam and Alexis mother and daughter in the first place. I still feel that wasn't the least bit necessary.

Sam could have been related to anyone, at one point I had hoped they might make her Mac's daughter but alas...

She would have been Robert and Anna's niece, cousin to Robin, big sister to Maxie and Georgie, it just worked in my head but of course the show would have her be a Cassadine.

As a SamFF I was more annoyed with Sam during that time.

I totally got where Alexis was coming from and I wanted Sam far away from Jason she needed her own identity and stories away from him, I was excited she got a family and connections. But than her trifling Jason obsessed ass messed it up.

[Chairperson Meow]

Explain it to me like I'm Sonny, why Jason whom is/was an emotionally unavailable train wreck robot that carried torches and weird obsessions for Carly, Robin, and Liz was so damn desirable to Sam? Does she have low self esteem? The dude threatened to kill her. I've tried watching Jason the Jason again on you tube. I see Jason loved Robin. Jason liked sex with Carly. Jason liked the idea of Liz. Jason liked Sam's loyalty. I don't get love from him. I get this dude was comfortable and liked routines. Am I missing something?

[jsbt]

Explain it to me like I'm Sonny, why Jason whom is/was an emotionally unavailable train wreck robot that carried torches and weird obsessions for Carly, Robin, and Liz was so damn desirable to Sam? Does she have low self esteem?

 

Yes?

[CPP83]

I totally got where Alexis was coming from and I wanted Sam far away from Jason she needed her own identity and stories away from him, I was excited she got a family and connections. But than her trifling Jason obsessed ass messed it up.

 

 

 

As I said my issue was that Sam and Alexis rightfully couldn't stand each other, and suddenly having it come out that they were biologically related, to me, didn't mean they had to do some 180 turn around to "connect and bond" within a week's time. And that only happened, imho, so Sam could then go and sleep with Ric in record time in the home he shared with Alexis, basically playing out another Carly/Bobbie/Tony like crap storyline. But I won't dive into that mess...heh.

 

Anyhow, my point is that sharing DNA is one thing, being a real "family" is another imo, and Sam and Alexis had no basis or foundation to carry on like long lost mother and daughter at that time.

 

Alexis gave birth to a little girl and then she was given up, the child Alexis gave away was not Sam, at least not yet. She was a baby girl who was put up for adoption and then given to another family.

 

Sam had been raised by her family, for better or worse, she hadn't come up on the streets as some abandoned orphan. She didn't have the grandest upbringing but she did have family ties, just not to anyone really significant on GH. And personally there were ten families I would have tied her to before I would have made her a Cassadine and Alexis' kid at that.

 

But as far as Alexis pushing Sam to find her own identity, Sam wasn't a child. Yes she made terrible choices in men but she was still a grown woman who could make her own choices.

 

That was another thing I greatly disliked, Jason treated Sam like she was a child who needed to basically be ordered around and told what to do, then Alexis behaved no differently. They both carried on as if they knew what was best for her regardless of her own thoughts or feelings.

 

I wanted her far away the pair of them, to finally stand on her own two feet and figure out what she wanted to do with herself regardless of who she was related to or in love with.

 

They've always hinged Sam's identity on the people around her, first it was Jax, then Sonny, then Jason, then Alexis, then Jason again, then Lucky, and then Jason yet again, not to mention her many bouts of baby rabies where she "lived" to become a Mommy and nearly acted as if remaining childless was some sort of death sentence. To me there's really never been a time I felt Sam was just out for Sam.

 

 

 

Does she have low self esteem? The dude threatened to kill her

 

 

 

I've always thought Sam has terribly low, if any, self esteem. 

 

The very fact she considers Jason the "one" of her life, that one in a million love that can never be duplicated after he threatened to end her life like a dog in the street. That he would take her away from everyone she loved, and who loved her, like she meant nothing, like she was some bug to be squashed beneath his boot...

 

I'd already written Jason off long before Sam even came to town, but that really made me look at him as nothing but a soulless piece of shit.

[Jazzy24]

Explain it to me like I'm Sonny, why Jason whom is/was an emotionally unavailable train wreck robot that carried torches and weird obsessions for Carly, Robin, and Liz was so damn desirable to Sam? Does she have low self esteem? The dude threatened to kill her. I've tried watching Jason the Jason again on you tube. I see Jason loved Robin. Jason liked sex with Carly. Jason liked the idea of Liz. Jason liked Sam's loyalty. I don't get love from him. I get this dude was comfortable and liked routines. Am I missing something?

Sam has always had low self-esteem. But I do think besides Robin and as a romantic partner Jason did love Sam.