GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[HeatLifer]

1 hour ago, SlovakPrincess said:

As for Carly ... doesn't it feel like she's literally had 100s of almost the exact same scene?   Bitching at or about Liz or Sam or Robin or someone else over their treatment of Jason??

Yes.

[UYI]

Yeah, that scene was from January if 2008, and Josslyn was born in November of 2009. Morgan was born in October of 2003 (when TB was still playing Carly). 

Edited June 30, 2017 by UYI

[bannana]

1 hour ago, ulkis said:

She wasn't pregnant with anyone in that scene.

Thanks, but then why did Jason say, is this about you having a baby again?

[UYI]

1 minute ago, bannana said:

Thanks, but then why did Jason say, is this about you having a baby again?

Because she and Jax were trying to have a baby by then; they had just married the year before. I think she actually miscarried later that year and THEN got pregnant with Joss a year later. 

[Oracle42]

I think Carly wanted to have a baby with Jax and her doctor told her it was too dangerous

Edited June 30, 2017 by Oracle42

[UYI]

Oh, and this includes a scene where Liz is pregnant with Jake (although no one knew quite yet that Jason was the father), and Carly, who had JUST started dating Jax, actually has the balls to tell Jason, while waiting to have a DATE with Jax, that she always wanted to have Jason's baby. Tone deaf bitch.

[HeatLifer]

3 minutes ago, UYI said:

that she always wanted to have Jason's baby.

That scene always makes me LMAO. His face. Stevie was gold sometimes, IDC.

[UYI]

....Annnnnddddd I just realized that back then Carly had an idea that Jason could be the father, but was obviously convinced otherwise, leading to the scenes posted before mine. DUH. *smacks forehead* 

[bannana]

6 minutes ago, UYI said:

....Annnnnddddd I just realized that back then Carly had an idea that Jason could be the father, but was obviously convinced otherwise, leading to the scenes posted before mine. DUH. *smacks forehead* 

But I loved the scene, because WTF would Jax and Carly have a date on death pier?  Really, Jax?

[Francie]

13 minutes ago, bannana said:

But I loved the scene, because WTF would Jax and Carly have a date on death pier?  Really, Jax?

Is that the same death pier that Sabrina would go take Emma to feed the ducks?

Or Sam would take her baby out for a ride in its stroller? I vaguely recall a scene where she's pushing a pram, while someone's scrubbing up blood from a crime scene.  Or is that my imagination? (Probably a TWOP post)

[UYI]

4 minutes ago, Francie said:

Is that the same death pier that Sabrina would go take Emma to feed the ducks?

Or Sam would take her baby out for a ride in its stroller? I vaguely recall a scene where she's pushing a pram, while someone's scrubbing up blood from a crime scene.  Or is that my imagination? (Probably a TWOP post)

Yes to all of the above, except I think it was Molly who brought Danny over there; it's how she met Rafe (I think Alison was murdered over there). 

[EarlGreyTea]

I've been Barging it up for about 5-10 years, on and off, and there's one major thing that puzzles me.

How exactly is it that ME has played, what, 4 different character on the same show? How do the writers explain away that one? There's Silas, McBain, Caleb (and Stephen Clay?), and now the current guy he's playing, Finn? I was recently watching some of the Caleb returns storyline on YouTube because I thought it was major campy fun, what with Alison and Lucy thinking Sam was Livvie. Then I got to wondering how many versions of ME are running around in PC. Is it because he constantly wants off the show unless he plays someone fresh, or OLTL's rights to the character, or what?

I kind of wish they had kept McBain. ME always, always has had insane chem with KMo, but I particularly saw it when he played McBain. And I'm sure it pissed off the Jolie fans.

And why did they bring back Alison only to kill her off? What a waste.

Edited July 9, 2017 by EarlGreyTea

[ulkis]

I'm not sure he's [Valentin] been all that villainized. As usual, the show is afraid to paint anyone too negatively.

Replying here, @dubbel zout

Well, he did kill Nikolas. But is it safe to say, that at that point, Nikolas had been AJ-ed?

[dubbel zout]

They're walking that back somewhat. Some of it is just Valentin's defense, but he's right that there's been no body. I wouldn't put it past them to bring Nik back.

I think they do tend to demonize the characters that get killed, unless your name is Jason or Morgan. To make the killer more sympathetic, I guess. Fail.

Edited July 19, 2017 by dubbel zout

[Oracle42]

Taunting Nik's family with the fact that there was no body for them to bury doesn't make Valentin more sympathetic. 

If they're going to bring back Nik, they need to go ahead and reveal that Valentin is a fraud because the Billy Joel lounge singer doesn't even work as an illegitimate Cassadine

[jsbt]

I said it in the other thread but: Reveal Billy Joel here is the stablehand's clueless deformed son who got duped by the 'real' Valentin (or an equivalent villain) into thinking he was the long-lost Cassadine heir. Done.

4 hours ago, ulkis said:

Well, he did kill Nikolas. But is it safe to say, that at that point, Nikolas had been AJ-ed?

No, IMO. It was not the same as A.J.. I think they just didn't know where Valentin as a character was going and dove right for the worst thing bc they assumed TC would fold to Frank and return as Nik.

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

Taunting Nik's family with the fact that there was no body for them to bury doesn't make Valentin more sympathetic. 

I didn't mean that specifically was the show walking back Valentin not being sympathetic. Pointing out there's no body means there's still a sliver of hope Nik is alive, which would mean Valentin didn't kill him. So he's not Nik's murderer. As usual, the show is hedging its bets.

This sort of thing drives me nuts. It's not as if the viewers seeing a body confirms someone is dead anyway, so why not at least commit to the story being told? If subsequent writers want to change it, they will. I mean, AMC undid an abortion, FFS.

Edited July 19, 2017 by dubbel zout

[LexieLily]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

I didn't mean that specifically was the show walking back Valentin not being sympathetic. Pointing out there's no body means there's still a sliver of hope Nik is alive, which would mean Valentin didn't kill him. So he's not Nik's murderer. As usual, the show is hedging its bets.

This sort of thing drives me nuts. It's not as if the viewers seeing a body confirms someone is dead anyway, so why not at least commit to the story being told? If subsequent writers want to change it, they will. I mean, AMC undid an abortion, FFS.

Um...explain, please? That seems pretty in-undoable. (So did a dead child with organs harvested coming back to life with both kidneys and no scars, but that's not the point. Lol)

[nilyank]

25 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Um...explain, please? That seems pretty in-undoable. (So did a dead child with organs harvested coming back to life with both kidneys and no scars, but that's not the point. Lol)

I think it was McTavish but basically she introduced a young 20 something guy who turned out to be Erica Kane's son from the abortion that she thought she had (one of the first on soaps). The doctor who performed her abortion removed her fetus and implanted it into his wife. The doctor was played by Ian Buchanan.

It was a completely stupid storyline that rewrote a historical moment in soap history.

[stlbf]

On Sunday, July 09, 2017 at 4:10 PM, EarlGreyTea said:

I've been Barging it up for about 5-10 years, on and off, and there's one major thing that puzzles me.

How exactly is it that ME has played, what, 4 different character on the same show? How do the writers explain away that one? There's Silas, McBain, Caleb (and Stephen Clay?), and now the current guy he's playing, Finn? I was recently watching some of the Caleb returns storyline on YouTube because I thought it was major campy fun, what with Alison and Lucy thinking Sam was Livvie. Then I got to wondering how many versions of ME are running around in PC. Is it because he constantly wants off the show unless he plays someone fresh, or OLTL's rights to the character, or what?

I kind of wish they had kept McBain. ME always, always has had insane chem with KMo, but I particularly saw it when he played McBain. And I'm sure it pissed off the Jolie fans.

And why did they bring back Alison only to kill her off? What a waste.

They did go campy with the Caleb/Stephen/McBain. But really was a total waste. They murdered Allison (a legacy character) for nothing. They damn near ruined Lucy for almost nothing. Rafe Jr lead to nothing and was just killed off. McBain was the best for ME. But the damn lawsuit forced the show to toss the character. Silas was dumped with Kiki as an unknown offspring. And nobody misses him. Finn has gone nowhere fast after starting fairly decently. 

And yeah, it still pisses me off that they just murdered off Alison for pretty much nothing. And then did the same to her son when the writers couldn't come up with any decent teen stories. Rafe was an interesting character. He lived with a crazed mother, on the run, with her belief that his biological father was a vampire. He had nothing. Was thrusted upon Sam and an Uncle he didn't know. Was bullied as a foster kid/orphan in a group home. All of that just went by the wayside to make him a foil to TJ for Molly's affection and Danny's babysitter. Then he became an overnight drug addict who ended up driving Patrick, Emma and stupid pregnant St. Sabrina of Lip gloss off the road for some reason because of the Cassadines. He was blackmailed into doing it. Why? Who the fuck knows? Did they have his mom like they had Jason? We don't know. It was stupid.

 

9 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Um...explain, please? That seems pretty in-undoable. (So did a dead child with organs harvested coming back to life with both kidneys and no scars, but that's not the point. Lol)

Shhhh! Let's just pretend that the unabortion never happened. Because it made no sense whatsoever. 

And yeah, why has nobody dug up Jake's grave and checked for a body? Isn't someone in the world missing a child? Or just check to see if it is empty. Who the hell is buried in that grave? Why are the police interested in figuring it out?

[LexieLily]

1 minute ago, stlbf said:

Shhhh! Let's just pretend that the unabortion never happened. Because it made no sense whatsoever. 

And yeah, why has nobody dug up Jake's grave and checked for a body? Isn't someone in the world missing a child? Or just check to see if it is empty. Who the hell is buried in that grave? Why are the police interested in figuring it out?

That was one of the first questions I had. Why was no one concerned or even questioning who Elizabeth and Lucky buried if not their son? Did no one care that because Jake was alive, that meant another then-four-year-old was dead and in Jake's grave?

[jsbt]

I can't recall for sure, but IIRC Victor did tell Rafe he could revive his mother (and was lying). That was what he had on him. I may be wrong. I agree killing the Barringtons was a waste. I enjoyed the concept of a story using those characters and reconciling PC to GH but from about Day 2 it went to shit. They never adequately addressed what really happened - like, if a spell erased the rest of the world's memories just come out and say it. But you still have to account for, say, Kevin and Livvie.

[Asp Burger]

The quote feature is giving me fits. Italics for nilyank's portion. 

I  think it was McTavish but basically she introduced a young 20 something guy who turned out to be Erica Kane's son from the abortion that she thought she had (one of the first on soaps). The doctor who performed her abortion removed her fetus and implanted it into his wife. The doctor was played by Ian Buchanan.

It was a completely stupid storyline that rewrote a historical moment in soap history.

Yeesh. I thought DOOL's bringing back Bo and Billie's stillborn, not-nearly-term daughter from 1998 as a rebellious teenager (with the obligatory "I hate my biological parents because I was adopted" attitude) about six years after the stillbirth was bad.  

Edited July 20, 2017 by Asp Burger

[jsbt]

She died in the swamp! With Swamp Girl! Remember that shit? The show called her that! That was her official name for weeks, months! Swamp Girl!

Edited July 20, 2017 by jsbt

[UYI]

5 hours ago, nilyank said:

I think it was McTavish but basically she introduced a young 20 something guy who turned out to be Erica Kane's son from the abortion that she thought she had (one of the first on soaps). The doctor who performed her abortion removed her fetus and implanted it into his wife. The doctor was played by Ian Buchanan.

It was a completely stupid storyline that rewrote a historical moment in soap history.

It was specifically the first LEGAL abortion in daytime history (there actually had been a backalley abortion or two in soaps before that--AW had one at least). Roe v. Wade had JUST been decided by the Supreme Court, THAT'S what made it so upsetting. 

But I'm getting off topic, so I'll stop there. 

5 hours ago, jsbt said:

I can't recall for sure, but IIRC Victor did tell Rafe he could revive his mother (and was lying). That was what he had on him. I may be wrong. I agree killing the Barringtons was a waste. I enjoyed the concept of a story using those characters and reconciling PC to GH but from about Day 2 it went to shit. They never adequately addressed what really happened - like, if a spell erased the rest of the world's memories just come out and say it. But you still have to account for, say, Kevin and Livvie.

And I hate how Amanda was just said to be dead offcamera, even though Anne Jeffreys is still very much alive. 

[dubbel zout]

To be fair, Anne Jeffreys is 94. I doubt she'd have returned as Amanda. Of all the terrible things in that story, Amanda being dead wasn't one of them, IMO.

[TeeVee329]

9 hours ago, stlbf said:

Rafe was an interesting character. He lived with a crazed mother, on the run, with her belief that his biological father was a vampire. He had nothing. Was thrusted upon Sam and an Uncle he didn't know. Was bullied as a foster kid/orphan in a group home. All of that just went by the wayside to make him a foil to TJ for Molly's affection and Danny's babysitter.

Agreed.  I know I said as much at the time - that the idea of Rafe was a good one - that he was a character in an age group that needed one, that he was connected to the show's history in a different way, etc. - but the execution of Rafe - sanding away all the interesting edges to make him a bland white option for Molly - was poor.

I really wanted Rafe to live with Lucy and Kevin.  If the show was dead set against their daughters (though we do know Ron had an interest in them at some point), I think being his guardians would have helped give them more story and more grounding in Port Charles.

9 hours ago, jsbt said:

I can't recall for sure, but IIRC Victor did tell Rafe he could revive his mother (and was lying). That was what he had on him. I may be wrong.

That's what I remember too.  It was a tossed-off line to Robin, I believe (we never saw Victor talk to Rafe), but yeah, that's what I recall being his motivation.

Poor dead Alison.  Nothing was worse than those stupid scenes a few months later when Lucy started giving vampire tours of the city, including the spot where he longtime friend WAS MURDRERED.  It was so gross.

Edited July 20, 2017 by TeeVee329

[UYI]

6 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

 

 If the show was dead set against their daughters 

Scott would like to have a word with you. ;)

[TeeVee329]

1 hour ago, UYI said:

Scott would like to have a word with you. ;)

Scotty knows what i mean! ;)

[stlbf]

Killing off Alison was so freaking stupid. The Barringtons were the same blue blood type that the Qs were, which made it maddening that Rafe had no one. He had grandparents(including a vampire Grandma) and Alison had discovered that she had a secret half sibling too. Instead they had Alison comeback crazy, sans Rafe Sr, with Caleb's son, destitute, homeless and recognizing Sam as Livvie. And promptly brutally murdered her. It was just moronic. Why the hell wouldn't everyone in town be fighting for the kid? He should've been a trust fund millionaire heir. Instead we got Rafe in foster care and then the stupid custody arrangement to have ME and KM together for a reason. Like Amanda Barrington would ever not have her descendants protected without trust funds. Lucy was nuts, then fine, then glibbly doing tours where her friend(and cousin's beloved wife) was stabbed to death. WTF? Shit writing. 

There was so much potential with Rafe. And it went absolutely fucking nowhere. What a waste of a character. All for the show's need to give TJ competition for Molly's affections. Hell, even it would've been great for the show to delve into Rafe's abuse while at the foster home. His trauma about his mother's fears about his biological father's coming after them and life on the run. His would've been very different than Lucky's adventurous upbringing. It would've been nice to have Kevin treat Rafe as a patient if Kevin and Lucy couldn'thave custody. Kevin knows all about having a rotten childhood and crazed family members. But nope. We got stalker and then instant drug addict, Rafe and moped Molly. And they added the joy of Felix's bratty sister. The only thing I like about her was that she and Britt seemed to actually like one another. Poor Rafe didn't have St. Jasus to cure him of his insta addiction.

[nilyank]

1 hour ago, stlbf said:

There was so much potential with Rafe. And it went absolutely fucking nowhere. What a waste of a character. All for the show's need to give TJ competition for Molly's affections.

But I actually think the goal was to break up Molly and TJ with the character of Rafe but he was no badly written and so bland despite what his history would indicate a more edgier personality. 

Years, later Molly and TJ are the most stable longest running couple on the show.

[Asp Burger]

So, really, it seems no one liked the GH vampire detour. The people who had never watched Port Charles were mystified at the sudden influx of characters from a spinoff that had been canceled more than a decade earlier (first the show was spilling over with OLTL characters, then Port Charles characters?). People who had watched Port Charles (and OLTL) probably would have been happier with whatever conclusion they could imagine. 

I stopped watching around that time, and stayed away quite a while (a year and a half, two years?), but I cannot remember whether it was the Caleb/Rafe/Alison/Lucy story or the constant plugs for The View when AJ was promoting the pickle relish. One or the other was the last straw. It seemed General Hospital desperately wanted to be any show except General Hospital. I'd finally seen something worse than The Sonny Corinthos Hour. I've hated him since the late 1990s, but I'll grant he at least has history and a fan base of GH viewers.

[jsbt]

I liked the concept as advertised. I was happy when it was announced; I think on paper a lot of it (Caleb's return/McBain being mistaken for him, the Barringtons returning with Rafe Jr.) was viable. I think the execution of it, the casting of Rafe, the plotting and and the inability to make a commitment to some sort of explanation - even if it was kind of glanced over onscreen -was a real mess.

To me the pickle relish showdown (Ron Carlivati's thinly-veiled allegory for PP OLTL 'stealing' that show from him) on The Chew with the reintro of the OLTL actors as their lousy new characters amidst vomit/diarrhea follies was the show's nadir under Ron. Until the summer of 2015, just before he was fired.

6 hours ago, nilyank said:

Years, later Molly and TJ are the most stable longest running couple on the show.

Because Frank doesn't give a shit about either actor/character and wants to promote other young people. Molly 'failed' his cute young white hope (Rafe) and at that point he lost all interest.

Edited July 21, 2017 by jsbt

[TeeVee329]

20 minutes ago, jsbt said:

I liked the concept as advertised. I was happy when it was announced; I think on paper a lot of it (Caleb's return/McBain being mistaken for him, the Barringtons returning with Rafe Jr.) was viable. I think the execution of it, the casting of Rafe, the plotting and and the inability to make a commitment to some sort of explanation - even if it was kind of glanced over onscreen -was a real mess.

Same.  I mean, I was definitely leery because Ron, but I was excited to see Lucy/Lynn Herring get a big story, it was the excuse needed to bring back Kevin/Jon Lindstrom, as I already said, I though the idea of Rafe as a character with a new tie to GH history/in an age group that needed a character was good, and I was even excited to see Alison, even though I had grown sick of her and Rafe Sr. by the end of "Port Charles".  It had the potential to be a fun diversion and another sign that the show was breaking from nonstop mob dreariness.

But the execution was a mess.  Killing Alison instead of, I dunno, having her drop off Rafe with Lucy or Kevin thinking he'd be safer with them.  It turning into another "John McBain has been falsely accused of a crime, now he's got to break out of jail and clear his name!" story.  Heather and Todd being part of it for no real reason.  The casual way the story treated the idea that Lucy had been mentally ill for years.  Sloppy plotting in cherry-picking what was real, wasn't real, was kinda real, etc.

But I agree with jsbt, the (re)introduction of Silas/Kiki/Franco is where things really started going off the rails for me.

7 hours ago, nilyank said:

But I actually think the goal was to break up Molly and TJ with the character of Rafe.

Oh, that was definitely a big part of it.  Which, in a better story with better chemistry, I wouldn't have been opposed to.  Molly and TJ were/are young people on a soap opera, they shouldn't be mated for life.  But again, piss-poor execution all around.  And deciding to make fuckin' Felix's sister the fourth spoke?  So stupid.

Edited July 21, 2017 by TeeVee329

[jsbt]

I could understand killing Alison, narratively. I don't think it was entirely necessary but it is a common soap staple. I even understood Todd with Lucy in Shadybrook. The Heather shit was dumb. And yeah, they did end up treating Lucy's 'illness' far too casually. There were no real substantive conversations about it with her and Kevin. The way Livvie was totally glossed over is also just not viable, IMO.

I do think Ron intended to say at the end that Caleb/the magic ring had cast some sort of spell to make the world forget about PC, and that it all had happened after all, the folks on GH just don't remember/have glossed it over mentally. That explanation makes sense IMO, and I get having to explain it with some ambiguity given the difference in tone between GH and late-stage PC. But onscreen it is barely there as even a hint.

[UYI]

8 hours ago, nilyank said:

But I actually think the goal was to break up Molly and TJ with the character of Rafe but he was no badly written and so bland despite what his history would indicate a more edgier personality. 

Years, later Molly and TJ are the most stable longest running couple on the show.

Weren't Jimmy Deshler (Rafe) and Haley Pullos (Molly) a couple for awhile in real life? Nothing was ever explicitly said by either of them, but I remember appearances together in the soap magazines/on social media where they looked very couple-ley.

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

So, really, it seems no one liked the GH vampire detour. The people who had never watched Port Charles were mystified at the sudden influx of characters from a spinoff that had been canceled more than a decade earlier (first the show was spilling over with OLTL characters, then Port Charles characters?). People who had watched Port Charles (and OLTL) probably would have been happier with whatever conclusion they could imagine. 

I stopped watching around that time, and stayed away quite a while (a year and a half, two years?), but I cannot remember whether it was the Caleb/Rafe/Alison/Lucy story or the constant plugs for The View when AJ was promoting the pickle relish. One or the other was the last straw. It seemed General Hospital desperately wanted to be any show except General Hospital. I'd finally seen something worse than The Sonny Corinthos Hour. I've hated him since the late 1990s, but I'll grant he at least has history and a fan base of GH viewers.

You missed the stuff where Robert and Anna found Robin alive? That was in late 2013, and it was easily the best part of the year. 

I could see why the PC stuff was included that year--from 1997-around 2000 or 2001, the two shows WERE very closely connected--they were in the same town, after all. The Nurses Ball, at least, took place on both shows during those years. And even though the connection started to fade the more supernatural Show!PC became compared to GHTown!PC, people still sometimes crossed over between both shows until the former ended in late 2003. It just wasn't handled right at all. 

Edited July 21, 2017 by UYI

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

So, really, it seems no one liked the GH vampire detour.

I liked it, but I often like stuff that's really bad and dumb lol. It definitely could have been way better, but it ended up being the kind of bad I enjoy.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, jsbt said:

To me the pickle relish showdown (Ron Carlivati's thinly-veiled allegory for PP OLTL 'stealing' that show from him) on The Chew with the reintro of the OLTL actors as their lousy new characters amidst vomit/diarrhea follies was the show's nadir under Ron.

I'm still in awe at how seriously bad that was. I wonder if that was the story that made Jane Elliot think about retiring. I know she stayed on a while after, but only in comparison to that did Tracy's stories improve.

[ulkis]

Quote

There was so much potential with Rafe. 

I don't think you can blame the writers for Rafe not taking off. They tried really hard with him. It was the actor. He wasn't the worst actor ever, but he wasn't good and he had no charisma to make up for lack of talent. Why they didn't try recasting I don't know.

Edited July 21, 2017 by ulkis

[Francie]

11 hours ago, TeeVee329 said:

Same.  I mean, I was definitely leery because Ron, but I was excited to see Lucy/Lynn Herring get a big story, it was the excuse needed to bring back Kevin/Jon Lindstrom, as I already said, I though the idea of Rafe as a character with a new tie to GH history/in an age group that needed a character was good, and I was even excited to see Alison, even though I had grown sick of her and Rafe Sr. by the end of "Port Charles".  It had the potential to be a fun diversion and another sign that the show was breaking from nonstop mob dreariness.

But the execution was a mess.  Killing Alison instead of, I dunno, having her drop off Rafe with Lucy or Kevin thinking he'd be safer with them.  It turning into another "John McBain has been falsely accused of a crime, now he's got to break out of jail and clear his name!" story.  Heather and Todd being part of it for no real reason.  The casual way the story treated the idea that Lucy had been mentally ill for years.  Sloppy plotting in cherry-picking what was real, wasn't real, was kinda real, etc.

But I agree with jsbt, the (re)introduction of Silas/Kiki/Franco is where things really started going off the rails for me.

Oh, that was definitely a big part of it.  Which, in a better story with better chemistry, I wouldn't have been opposed to.  Molly and TJ were/are young people on a soap opera, they shouldn't be mated for life.  But again, piss-poor execution all around.  And deciding to make fuckin' Felix's sister the fourth spoke?  So stupid.

 

11 hours ago, jsbt said:

I could understand killing Alison, narratively. I don't think it was entirely necessary but it is a common soap staple. I even understood Todd with Lucy in Shadybrook. The Heather shit was dumb. And yeah, they did end up treating Lucy's 'illness' far too casually. There were no real substantive conversations about it with her and Kevin. The way Livvie was totally glossed over is also just not viable, IMO.

I do think Ron intended to say at the end that Caleb/the magic ring had cast some sort of spell to make the world forget about PC, and that it all had happened after all, the folks on GH just don't remember/have glossed it over mentally. That explanation makes sense IMO, and I get having to explain it with some ambiguity given the difference in tone between GH and late-stage PC. But onscreen it is barely there as even a hint.

 

10 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I liked it, but I often like stuff that's really bad and dumb lol. It definitely could have been way better, but it ended up being the kind of bad I enjoy.

I raged during that storyline. Flames! Flames coming out the side of my head rage! They had Lucy – Lucy! –  holding Anna at gunpoint. And then afterwards it was all “Hey, no big woop.” They had a 15-year-old child break grown and possibly dangerous men out of jail. And of course the whole thing was designed to showcase the oh-so-wonderful talents of McPursey Lips Bain/Caleb/Angus/Whatever.  That was the beginning of Ron’s “We’ll write what we want to write, and if you don’t like it, YOU HAVE A PROBLEM!!” phase. 

BTW, because it can’t be said enough. I love this community. I cherish this community. I respect this community. I’ve traveled around the forums of late, and everywhere I go I come across something that makes me appreciate this group all the more! I mean, it’s not so great that I’m planning on returning to watch the show, ha!, but I miss y’all.  Group hug!

Okay, back to flames! Flames coming out of the side of head!!

Edited July 22, 2017 by Francie

[Asp Burger]

Quote

 I could see why the PC stuff was included that year--from 1997-around 2000 or 2001, the two shows WERE very closely connected--they were in the same town, after all. The Nurses Ball, at least, took place on both shows during those years. And even though the connection started to fade the more supernatural Show!PC became compared to GHTown!PC, people still sometimes crossed over between both shows until the former ended in late 2003. It just wasn't handled right at all.

Yeah, but in 2013, not immediately and not soon after Port Charles lost its own platform, deciding, "Okay, time to tidy up Port Charles business. It's vampires and magic rings now. Go!"?

I'd never watched Port Charles. There was a big difference between this and Julie Pinson's character being in a few GH scenes during the Nurses' Ball in the summer of 1999, or Lucy (a long-time GH character) emceeing it.  In the late 1990s, I "got" it -- maybe the crossovers would spur interest in Port Charles, because there was a Port Charles in which to spur interest. If this was bewildering to me, I can imagine what it was like for anyone who came to GH at any point between 2004 and 2012. Four soaps left on all of network television, only one on ABC, the network was cheaping it up with cooking shows and talk shows, every year GH had left was a gift...let's reopen business from something that had 50 percent of GH's audience when soaps were robust by comparison.

For me, it even took the fun out of posting about the show on TWoP at that time. Page after page of discussion about things I'd never watched and had no point of view on, how well or poorly the events on GH 2013 fit with things on PC 2002. My choices were either to go read up on Port Charles history so I could participate, or just shut up.

It was much worse than the recent reintroduction of Anna's sister, because Alex worked okay as an imported story device from ABC Daytime past. She was used for a twist in an ongoing GH story involving Anna and Valentin, and if you'd never watched one day of AMC, all you needed to know was that Anna always had had a twin out there. Ignorance of Alex's history arguably was helpful, because it's not as though they used any of it. She hardly seemed like the same character, and I still don't know how the relationship between the sisters reached its current point. But I'm not complaining. I'm grateful they didn't bring on an Alex supporting cast from AMC in 1999-2001 with her, and weren't talking about Dmitri, Gabriel the Dog Boy, and Ilene the Hitwoman. I'd have understood those references, but I consider other GH viewers part of my support group. I want us all to be infuriated together, not some of us infuriated and the others lost.   

I've seen a lot of things on GH that I thought were bad uses of the time, but the extremely tardy PC revisit was the only thing that ever made me think, "How did this even get the green light?" 

Edited July 21, 2017 by Asp Burger

[UYI]

2 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

Yeah, but in 2013, not immediately and not soon after Port Charles lost its own platform, deciding, "Okay, time to tidy up Port Charles business. It's vampires and magic rings now. Go!"?

I'd never watched Port Charles. There was a big difference between this and Julie Pinson's character being in a few GH scenes during the Nurses' Ball in the summer of 1999, or Lucy (a long-time GH character) emceeing it.  In the late 1990s, I "got" it -- maybe the crossovers would spur interest in Port Charles, because there was a Port Charles in which to spur interest. If this was bewildering to me, I can imagine what it was like for anyone who came to GH at any point between 2004 and 2012. Four soaps left on all of network television, only one on ABC, the network was cheaping it up with cooking shows and talk shows, every year GH had left was a gift...let's reopen business from something that had 50 percent of GH's audience when soaps were robust by comparison.

For me, it even took the fun out of posting about the show on TWoP at that time. Page after page of discussion about things I'd never watched and had no point of view on, how well or poorly the events on GH 2013 fit with things on PC 2002. My choices were either to go read up on Port Charles history so I could participate, or just shut up.

It was much worse than the recent reintroduction of Anna's sister, because Alex worked okay as an imported story device from ABC Daytime past. She was used for a twist in an ongoing GH story involving Anna and Valentin, and if you'd never watched one day of AMC, all you needed to know was that Anna always had had a twin out there. Ignorance of Alex's history arguably was helpful, because it's not as though they used any of it. She hardly seemed like the same character, and I still don't know how the relationship between the sisters reached its current point. But I'm not complaining. I'm grateful they didn't bring on an Alex supporting cast from AMC in 1999-2001 with her, and weren't talking about Dmitri, Gabriel the Dog Boy, and Ilene the Hitwoman. I'd have understood those references, but I consider other GH viewers part of my support group. I want us all to be infuriated together, not some of us infuriated and the others lost.   

I've seen a lot of things on GH that I thought were bad uses of the time, but the extremely tardy PC revisit was the only thing that ever made me think, "How did this even get the green light?" 

That's fair. I'm sorry for any confusion I might have caused!

And of course, PC went its whole run with certain TV markets never even airing it (or airing it very early in the morning/very late at night), which put it at a certain disadvantage from day one. 

Weirdly enough, I actually watched PC way before I ever watched GH...and I didn't even begin watching current GH until 2012, after having watched a few older stories on YouTube (and after OLTL was gone). There's a reason I don't talk about THAT very much--I don't want to forced to run away with torches following behind me for being a "lesser" GH fan for not starting earlier on, LOL! I haven't even watched current GH on any sort of basis in a few years. Whatever I know is usually from here. 

Edited July 22, 2017 by UYI

[Asp Burger]

From the general discussion thread:  

16 minutes ago, stlbf said:

Carly only tolerated Skipper. She was Sonny's sister and Jason's gf/wife. Carly really doesn't have female friends.

I can understand this reading, based on how Carly is with Every Other Woman Ever, but I'm not sure I agree. I think Tamara Braun and Alicia Leigh Willis became very good friends in their time on the show, and maybe that added a level of genuineness to their scenes...which doesn't mean I enjoyed watching their smug bitch characters constantly reassuring and propping each other. However, even just taking what is on the page, as it would be played by anyone, they were written as BFFs once Courtney capitulated to kissing Sonny's ring, hating AJ, and worshiping Jason. When Journey broke up, Carly was out of her mind trying to force them back together. Didn't the batshit crazy Jennifer Bransford version even make a scene at the Courtney/Jax wedding? 

Now, with Carly/Sam, I think what stlbf says about Carly/Courtney is very true. She has learned to tolerate Sam, and she'd rather he be with her than any of the other options of recent history. But if Jason washed his hands of her for any reason, not only don't I think she would hang out with Sam, she'd probably be encouraging him to pursue full custody of the kids.  

Edited July 26, 2017 by Asp Burger

[stlbf]

Not disagreeing that Carly and Skipper were written as besties. But it was written fairly crappy(IMO), instant and fake. Like everything Fab 4 was written. Skipper was instantly Carly's bff the moment she dropped AJ and was Jason's gal. Which is just weird and lazy. And I'd argue that Carly was more upset at the thought of losing Jason to hated enemy Liz or some other woman not named Carly. With Toonces, Carly had some control with Jason, at least in Carly's mind. Add to the fact that with Skipper, she didn't have to worry about Sonny sleeping with her. So Carly was cool with this arrangement. She got to have her cake and eat it too.

With Sam, Carly lost that power. Sam does have a sex past with Sonny. Which is why we didn't get alot of Sam/Carly after Jason's "death" either. They have nothing in common outside of a love for Jason. I just don't think that Carly is the type of woman to have women friends. Maybe if the show had a full time lesbian character on the show, Carly could have a friend. Even as a kid, Caroline Benson didn't have many friends. Her one bff relationship ended when she was discovered to be having an affair with her bff's married father.

But yeah, Sam is only tolerated. Skipper was useful. I don't know about loved by Carly. I honestly don't think she can really love anyone besides herself. Even her kids. She does what she wants. Not what is best for them. She is a control freak when it comes to the males in her life. Which is why I really want Joss to give her hell over her continued unhealthy relationship with Sonny. Michael is too wishy-washy. Dating Nell is his current rebellion. We'll see how long that lasts.

[coffee drinker]

6 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

From the general discussion thread:  

I can understand this reading, based on how Carly is with Every Other Woman Ever, but I'm not sure I agree. I think Tamara Braun and Alicia Leigh Willis became very good friends in their time on the show, and maybe that added a level of genuineness to their scenes...which doesn't mean I enjoyed watching their smug bitch characters constantly reassuring and propping each other. However, even just taking what is on the page, as it would be played by anyone, they were written as BFFs once Courtney capitulated to kissing Sonny's ring, hating AJ, and worshiping Jason. When Journey broke up, Carly was out of her mind trying to force them back together. Didn't the batshit crazy Jennifer Bransford version even make a scene at the Courtney/Jax wedding? 

Now, with Carly/Sam, I think what stlbf says about Carly/Courtney is very true. She has learned to tolerate Sam, and she'd rather he be with her than any of the other options of recent history. But if Jason washed his hands of her for any reason, not only don't I think she would hang out with Sam, she'd probably be encouraging him to pursue full custody of the kids.  

Meh, they were two actresses who let their front burner status go to their heads, imo.  The writing of the characters being  smug bints did them no favors, however the the actresses also seemed to believe the hype that they'd earned their status.  They didn't.  Guza wrote for "Carly" regardless of the actress in role.  ALW supposedly had a cow when she got tossed over for Frons new flavor, KMo, losing her favored status as Jason's love interest.

What was written on the page was because of Pratt/Frons, which was a disservice to Braun and Willis.  But the actresses also tended to buy into their own hype because of that writing.  The actresses both overestimated their worth to the show.  

*shrug*

[UYI]

7 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

I think Tamara Braun and Alicia Leigh Willis became very good friends in their time on the show, and maybe that added a level of genuineness to their scenes.

FWIW, there were also rumors that they were a real-life couple for awhile. No idea if that's actually true, though. 

Edited July 26, 2017 by UYI

[Melgaypet]

Tamara Braun is a much better actress than Alicia Leigh Willis, though. Like, not on the same level at all. Hell, Natalia Livingston was a better actress. Yes, I went there. 

[ulkis]

11 minutes ago, Melgaypet said:

Tamara Braun is a much better actress than Alicia Leigh Willis, though. Like, not on the same level at all. Hell, Natalia Livingston was a better actress. Yes, I went there. 

You've gone too far!

Granted, my memories of Courtney are hazy. But I don't remember thinking "this chick is terrible" the way I did about Livingston. I'd have to re-watch some clips.

[OnceSane]

12 hours ago, stlbf said:

Michael is too wishy-washy. Dating Nell is his current rebellion.

How pitiful is that from the former Micheal Without Pity chooses Nelle as his battleground?

[coffee drinker]

4 hours ago, ulkis said:

You've gone too far!

Granted, my memories of Courtney are hazy. But I don't remember thinking "this chick is terrible" the way I did about Livingston. I'd have to re-watch some clips.

Willis had two patented acting tics:  rolling her eyes and rubbing a hand across her forehead when playing angry/upset.  Livingston winning an Emmy remains a mystery to me.