GH History Lessons: Because History is Always Repeating Itself

[Asp Burger]

Liz probably has had more "stories that were going to happen, but didn't" than any other character still on GH.  Michele Val Jean was arguably the character's/actress's biggest booster ever behind the scenes. Had she remained the head writer for five years, GH history might have looked very different.  

There was a lot of Sonny/Liz in 1999-2000: scenes of them together, scenes of other people talking about them. I think it had to be setup for something. He comforted her after the bike-shop fire; she comforted him after the miscarriage. Robin was gone, so that left one void in the show, and then Jason left town, so Sonny became the person everyone was telling Liz to stay away from, whether they were concerned friends/family (Nikolas, Audrey), law-enforcement types (Taggert) or jealous rivals (Carly).  

"Sonny's secret sister" is the version I had always heard. They were going to find out they were related but continue to keep it a secret for Liz's safety, Carly would notice how much time they spent together and suspect an affair, et cetera.  

Other Liz stories that never made it past the drawing board: Camera for modeling shoot rigged by Gia to explode/scarring/comforted by Jason (Burton left to make the Robert Redford movie). Love story with a poet named Ethan (scrapped when they put her with Ric instead). There was subsequently a character on the show named Ethan, seven years later, but not the same one. At least...I don't think so. I wonder if Liz's poet boyfriend would have turned out to be Luke's son with Holly.  

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Asp Burger said:

"Sonny's secret sister" is the version I had always heard. They were going to find out they were related but continue to keep it a secret for Liz's safety, Carly would notice how much time they spent together and suspect an affair, et cetera.  

 

This sounds horrible.

[ulkis]

1 minute ago, peachmangosteen said:

This sounds horrible.

Yes, but admit that you would have loved Liz's poet boyfriend. I bet he would have had a scene like this:

[peachmangosteen]

Oh yea, I totally would have loved Liz's poet boyfriend.

LMAO that scene will never not bring a smile to my face. It just brightens all my days!

[ulkis]

They should have Nathan quit the force and become a poet. And seduce Liz.

Hmm, time to go to the fanfic thread.

[dubbel zout]

41 minutes ago, Asp Burger said:

Carly would notice how much time they spent together and suspect an affair

The trust between Sonny and Carly has always been strong, heh.

I'm glad Elizabeth and Sonny weren't siblings, and who knows how that would have been written, but it does amuse me to imagine Carly's reaction to Elizabeth as Sonny's sister getting involved with Jason. The only reason Carly tolerated SWSNBN was because she was Sonny's sister.

[Asp Burger]

Oh, yes. Even at that, Carly initially had friction with SWSNBN. It was not until the CourAJ period had run its course that they became besties.  

I'm of two minds about the sister reveal that never happened. I hate that everyone has to be drawn into the Moobster's orbit as if connection to that tired character (tired already in 2000) is a seal of viability, but I cannot say what we got instead was better. Five years of SWSNBN, people. Five years. And then a ghostie visit a couple years ago.  

[WendyCR72]

I don't recall Liz being Sonny's possible sister, but Gia. I even remember her mother appeared briefly and hints were dropped. And since she was also Taggert's sister, I think the idea was to keep conflict between Taggert/Sonny going with Gia in the middle. But then, it all petered out to nothing...

[UYI]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

The secret sister came true, alas, though of course it's not about Elizabeth.

I think the first idea was by either Guza or MVJ, though, while the second with SWSNBN was JFP and Megan McTavish. JFP LOVES giving characters random long lost siblings; it's practically one of her trademarks. 

Edited June 12, 2017 by UYI

[Asp Burger]

Pruza gave a joint interview a little while after they took over writing in 2002, and they said that when they got back, the first thing they noticed was that everyone had a sister. They were quite derisive about it. They quickly sent Sarah packing again, killed off Big Kristina, wrote Gia out a little later, and SWSNBN was the one they kept around. Am I forgetting anyone? Oh, Skye. She was the other "new sister" of the JFP/McTavish period. Pruza de-Q'd her, right? 

[stlbf]

Wait, didn't they have Liz be Sonny's blood type too? He was hurt/shot/in an accident or something, requiring a transfusion. Which makes the whole super rare blood type shared with HayChel even dumber.

But yeah, the show was brewing something for Liz and Sonny, but it went nowhere.  As usual for Liz. TIiC made SkipperBitch Sonny's lost sister. And they broke up Liason, immediately sticking poor Liz with unLucky 3.0 and Jason was stuck with "saving" SkipperBitch from a life with AJ. Honest to god, that all happened in like a week or two.

Skye was never a Q as far as I was concerned. I hated that the network allowed the soaps to de-Chandler her. I loved her with Adam, Stuart, Hayley and a very young little Adam. And to just do an Another World family reunion on AMC, it royally pissed me off. And I say that as an Another World avid fan.

Edited June 12, 2017 by stlbf

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, Asp Burger said:

SWSNBN was the one they kept around

Wasn't that because Guza and/or Pratt had a creepy crush on her? I remember some unsavoriness.

[ulkis]

I think that was Frons. Guza hated her.

[UYI]

Guza hated the character AND the actress. Tension between the two of them over story direction is probably why SWSNBN really got a permanent death, rather than any fan hate. That was just a bonus. 

[Oracle42]

And despite that, he wrote Every Beat of her relationship and break-up with Jason. Now part of that was his raging Jasus boner but he did the same thing with Courtney and Jax and Courtney and Nik - because he knew how to write relationships in a soap opera. 

And even in the darkest days of his jasus obsession, we still had strong, well-written male characters - Nik, Ric, Jax, Patrick, Dante Luke, JJ!Lucky and Spin (like him or not, he still had better writing and character development than every character that is currently on this show) and female characters who (even if they had children) got to do non-baby related things. And now all we get is ME and RoHo because that's what OLTL had and that's what FV is comfortable with

I think they're actually considering bringing over AMC and One Life to Live characters in lieu of admitting that they are shitty at casting and developing new characters.

Edited June 13, 2017 by Oracle42

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, Oracle42 said:

And despite that, he wrote Every Beat of her relationship and break-up with Jason. Now part of that was his raging Jasus boner but he did the same thing with Courtney and Jack's and Courtney and Nik - because he knew how to write relationships in a soap opera. 

And even in the darkest days of his jasus obsession, we still had strong, well-written male characters - Nik, Ric, Jax, Patrick, Dante Luke, JJ!Lucky and Spin (like him or not, he still had better writing and character development than every character that is currently on this show) and female characters who (even if they had children) got to do non-baby related things. And now we just have ME and RoHo because that's what OLTL had and that's what FV is comfortable with

I think they're actually considering bringing over AMC and One Life to Live characters in lieu of admitting that they are shitty at casting and developing new characters.

 

At least he got to write about his favorite thing to jack off too: Jason Morgan. 

[Asp Burger]

Curious what happened on the day present-day GH superstar Nicolas Bechtel was born? Soap Central has you covered! 

Tuesday, February 15, 2005

Feeling guilty for the way his family treated AJ, Alan blasts the Q clan as they gather for the memorial service.

Shocked to see Rachel [note: Not Rachel Berlin/Hayden Barnes] in attendance, Courtney pulls out her gun. Meanwhile, Jax doesn't know what to make of it when he finds a bullet in Courtney's loft.

Durant tries to push Reese to use the information she has gathered on Sonny to destroy him, but she says her only goal is to find Kristina. When Reese wonders if Sonny is mentally unstable, Carly fibs and says he has always been emotionally solid. Jason and Sonny get instructions from the kidnapper to be at the park later that afternoon.

Dr. Meadows tells Alexis that she must avoid stress or risk her unborn baby's life. When Sonny goes off on Alexis for tipping Reese about his meeting with the kidnapper, Ric tells his brother to back down because Alexis is pregnant. Alexis is terrified that her baby is in trouble when she starts to cramp.

[UYI]

I was just shy of sixteen back then! (My birthday is February 28th.) 

[peachmangosteen]

Honestly, all of that, minus the AJ/Q stuff, sounds bad.

[UYI]

It was at the height of the Frons, JFP, Guza and Pratt years. Of course it was bad. 

[Chairperson Meow]

On 6/18/2017 at 8:15 AM, peachmangosteen said:

Honestly, all of that, minus the AJ/Q stuff, sounds bad.

Stuart Damon was great in those scenes.

[Ambrosefolly]

If  didn't exactly how it would turn out, I thought AJ "dying" the first time was so beautifully done. It was pretty much the anti-Morgan: the show didn't try to sanitize his memory, mainly because Guza hated him, but One Good Writer got a hold of the first part of it and I think it was one of the most poignant funerals on GH.Sister or not, Skye was the perfect person to speak, because I truly think she was his only friend and RC did a great job. If Carly, Sonny and Jason didn't deserve every ounce of pain he dished out to them, I say the show should have left AJ dead.

[Asp Burger]

The "crimes committed" section of one of the GH info sites is a hoot, because it will have three or four really minor things and then something huge. On Michael: 

Ran away from home [2008]

Underage drinking [Jun 2009]

Bar fight [Jun 2009]

Driving without a license [Jul 2009]

Murdered Claudia Zacchara with an axe [Nov 4, 2009]

[dubbel zout]

Murdering someone is a PC rite of passage.

[TeeVee329]

16 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Sister or not, Skye was the perfect person to speak, because I truly think she was his only friend and RC did a great job.

I loved Skye's eulogy.  And I loved that they acknowledged Skye and AJ's close relationship when she (and Lila Rae) came home for Edward's funeral.  Her being overjoyed to discover he was alive was so sweet (her basic disinterest in Jason's recent "death" was icing on the cake lol) and RC and SK had a similarly good rapport.

[OnceSane]

25 minutes ago, TeeVee329 said:

Seeing Kiki in the freeze fame image on this clip made me wish it was the scenes of Michael tearing KA Kiki to shreds over all her lies right after she walks in on him sexing up Rosalie.  So good.

For you, @TeeVee329!

 

I think it's missing a couple scenes at the end, but it's still a thing of beauty.

[jsbt]

February '91, I believe. Bill Eckert's first day, back when he had fire-engine red hair and was a good-hearted sailor.

I wasn't viewing at the time so I'm not sure how long it took the character to begin to dramatically morph into various different schizoid incarnations; people like @Francie would know better. I know by the time Julia Barrett arrived (super-campy, in a big hat) in June, Bill was rich(?) and working as a business executive. I've always been curious about how quickly these various quick-changes of Bill's took place.

Julia's equally OTT intro below. What a wacky period for the show:

Edited June 22, 2017 by jsbt

[jsbt]

May 1998: Genie Francis returns as Laura during the Cassadine bacchanalia. Katherine falls from the parapet, the unintended victim of Luke and Alexis' scheme to assassinate Helena.

Edited June 22, 2017 by jsbt

[jsbt]

And now: August '98, and Helena's explanation of how she brought Katherine back from the dead. (not embeddable)

The looks on Dara Jensen, Stefan and Alexis' faces are worth the price of admission. Constance Towers' cheery performance is hysterical.

Edited June 22, 2017 by jsbt

[UYI]

Well now, look at who was hitting on Holly here. :)

 

[ulkis]

On 6/22/2017 at 2:45 AM, jsbt said:

May 1998: Genie Francis returns as Laura during the Cassadine bacchanalia. Katherine falls from the parapet, the unintended victim of Luke and Alexis' scheme to assassinate Helena.

 

It's weird to me Luke and Alexis never had an affair. I guess it just didn't work out. Even GF suggested it.

Edited June 24, 2017 by ulkis

[Francie]

Bill showed up in mid-February,  and we had about two months of turning on GH and getting the blue collar Eckert Family show, instead. Their house set was huge!  And they had a bakery set too.The fan revolt was palpable, and corrections were made in May and carried over to June, I think. Gloria worked fast.

First they killed off Pop Eckert, whatever his name was, sidelined the mother, and sent Jenny to the Quartermaines and Bill to Barrett Enterprises.  Those changes happened over a few short weeks. 

Tony even wore brown contact lenses when he first appeared as Bill.  Those were the last remnants of Bill Eckert that remained by summer, aside from his son, Sly.  The red hair started disappearing right about the time that Harlan Barrett gave him the posh job and Julia Barrett showed up immediately after the job offer.  Then Bill moved into the lighthouse, and I forget at what point during the summer he did that. 

Here is Bill being all blue-collar in late Feb./early March:

 

Here's the Family Eckert about a month later:

 

And, by July, it was a "Luke Spencer by any other name is still ... Luke" situation. Though he did keep the brown contacts going for awhile:

Edited June 26, 2017 by Francie

[Francie]

On 6/22/2017 at 9:32 AM, ulkis said:

It's weird to me Luke and Alexis never had an affair. I guess it just didn't work out. Even GF suggested it.

I have no doubt that was the plan back in 1998.

Luke was one of the very first people that Alexis met, and they had one of those typical "meet antagonistic" situations. And then he shamelessly flirted with her, for months. 

 One of my favorite lines, and writing it out now, I realize it was probably was 99% line delivery, was when Alexis was talking about how Stefan and he were nipping at each other's hindquarters, and Luke said, "Turn around, and I'll nip at your hindquarters." 

For some reason they dropped it.  I've always wondered if it had to do with Nancy's savviness to the politics of daytime, and she did not want to mess with Luke and Laura fans. 

[Oracle42]

I need somebody to come up behind Robert and cut off that horrifying ponytail

1 hour ago, Francie said:

And, by July, is was a "Luke Spencer by any other name is still ... Luke" situation. Though he did keep the brown contacts going for awhile:

[jsbt]

On 6/22/2017 at 7:32 AM, ulkis said:

It's weird to me Luke and Alexis never had an affair.

I wanted it bad at that time. Bad. And I was a hardcore little LNL fan.

[jsbt]

8 hours ago, Francie said:

Here's the Family Eckert about a month later:

 

Francie, thanks so much for this. It's the most I've seen the original iteration of this mess of a family.

I don't even want to know why Bill is reading Bret Easton Ellis' American Psycho near the end. I'll assume that's Tony's nihilistic little touch. "It's layers, beneath the banal nice guy script!"

Edited June 26, 2017 by jsbt

[Francie]

7 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

I need somebody to come up behind Robert and cut off that horrifying ponytail

Tristan's never admitted to this, but I like to call that his "ponytail of discontent."   I don't think he liked Robert being turned into a family man.  Nothing to  do with Finola or Kimberly, I think, but he didn't like Scorpio moving out of his bachelor pad penthouse and into a two-story colonial, and all that signified. 

[dubbel zout]

3 hours ago, jsbt said:

I don't even want to know why Bill is reading Bret Easton Ellis' American Psycho near the end. I'll assume that's Tony's nihilistic little touch. "It's layers, beneath the banal nice guy script!"

LOL. You know that's exactly what it was.

I'm always torn with this stuff and TG. I know he struggled to make peace with the fact that his renown was due to a soap, and in those days it was almost impossible to break out of that world (ironically, it was probably easier for women than for men), yet he also was kind of an asshole with his pushbacks. 

[Asp Burger]

I'd always heard how horrible Demi Moore was when she was on GH, and I watched a clip of a Jackie/Holly (verbal) catfight. Reports were not exaggerated.  

She was, admittedly, stunning, and she had a distinctive voice.  And within just a few years, she was giving good performances in movies like About Last Night... It does make me want to go a little easier on young actors, because I don't think the soap grind allows their talents to be nurtured. Now, if someone has been acting for a long time and is terrible, the gloves are off.

[jsbt]

I was looking more old shit up on YT. I was barely watching every now and again at the time, so does anyone wanna explain the whole Equinox/toxic balls thing? What a hoot.

I always thought it was interesting how Guza and JFP would sort of attempt to do medical crisis stories but ultimately bring them back to centrally focusing on Sonny, Jason and the mob. There was often the seed of a good idea mired in dumb shit.

[dubbel zout]

Sonny and especially Jason always had to save the day.

[Cheyanne11]

I'm trying to desensitize myself to the upcoming SBu/LW scenes, but I don't know if it's going to work.  Six minutes worth of scenes of Carly basically peeing on Jason's leg and screaming how mean old Elizabeth was keeping Jake from him and I've got a rage headache:

 

[ulkis]

"How wonderful Michael turned out? Come on!" One of Jason's best moments.

[dubbel zout]

That also might have been one of the only times Jason showed some regret about his post-tree life choices.

[coffee drinker]

1 hour ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I'm trying to desensitize myself to the upcoming SBu/LW scenes, but I don't know if it's going to work.  Six minutes worth of scenes of Carly basically peeing on Jason's leg and screaming how mean old Elizabeth was keeping Jake from him and I've got a rage headache:

 

 

LW playing the pissy fishwife to a T.  Loathed that scene.  

[bannana]

3 hours ago, Cheyanne11 said:

I'm trying to desensitize myself to the upcoming SBu/LW scenes, but I don't know if it's going to work.  Six minutes worth of scenes of Carly basically peeing on Jason's leg and screaming how mean old Elizabeth was keeping Jake from him and I've got a rage headache:

 

I wasn't watchin then.  Who is Carly pregnant with?  Morgan?

[SlovakPrincess]

I didn't realize it as a kid in the early 90s, but now that I've gone back to watch more of the beginnings of the 80s era, I can see that Bill really just relived much of Luke's early trajectory.  Both started out blue collar and wanting to prove themselves (Bill as the son of a baker, Luke as a small-time criminal and disco manager), then they got mixed up with something sinister thinking they were breaking into the white collar world (Bill with Harlan Barrett's business and the cartel, Luke with Frank Smith and then with Alex Quartermaine at the beginning of Ice Princess).  They both liked money but had disdain for those born with wealth.  They both got disillusioned and ended up going full asshole for a while (Bill when he got greedy and started cheating on Holly, Luke when he flipped out over Robert and Holly's marriage and campaigned to be mayor for dirty reasons).   I assume this was by design, since they were trying to recreate the Luke and Laura magic (without Laura) ... until they just gave up and actually brought back Luke and Laura.  

This is just to say that, sorry TG, you were always playing Luke!  

 

As for Carly ... doesn't it feel like she's literally had 100s of almost the exact same scene?   Bitching at or about Liz or Sam or Robin or someone else over their treatment of Jason??

Edited June 30, 2017 by SlovakPrincess

[coffee drinker]

48 minutes ago, bannana said:

I wasn't watchin then.  Who is Carly pregnant with?  Morgan?

No, it wasn't Morgan.  Morgan was born back before Elizabeth had Cameron.  It would have been Josslyn.  

[bannana]

Just now, coffee drinker said:

No, it wasn't Morgan.  Morgan was born back before Elizabeth had Cameron.  It would have been Josslyn.  

Wait, what!?  It sounded like Carly was with Sonny in that scene, but she was preggers with Joss?  She also sounded ridiculous.  Jason actually sounded normal.

I swear I need to not think about these past storylines, because the ages of the kids do not make sense to me at all. I get SORASing, but they are all over the timeline with this.

I should have realized, because wasn't it Tamara Braun Carly who had Morgan while being shot in the head by Sonny (I still don't understand this one!)?

Thanks, @coffee drinker.

[ulkis]

11 minutes ago, bannana said:

Wait, what!?  It sounded like Carly was with Sonny in that scene, but she was preggers with Joss?  She also sounded ridiculous.  Jason actually sounded normal.

 

She wasn't pregnant with anyone in that scene.