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These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

catrox14

By catrox14
in Supernatural

ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

3 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Well, until three episodes ago when Yockey kicked Dean to the curb in a blatantly "neener neener" move and turned a blind eye to the mytharc he himself set up less than a handful of episodes before, I'd have been worried that the show was losing possibly the only writer who could actually write, and more importantly would write for Dean.

But now ... honestly, it just doesn't matter anymore. My first guess is that Berens may be/is halfway out the door, but it could be anyone given the number of noobs they're pushing into the BTS roles. Hell, maybe almost everyone is leaving for reasons.

Yeah, I'm right there with you on this.

I just can't let go of what these asshats did(and more importantly, DIDN'T do) with the MichaelDean storyline.

I honestly hope that it's killed any attachment that Jensen might have still felt for the show because that's what it's done for me; and the most recent spoiler pics in the promo for what's coming up has only intensified that feeling in me even more.

If we're headed for Samifer(again!) or worse, MichaelSam, next season, that will be it for me and even Jensen won't be able to tempt me to watch that kind of garbage. 

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Casseiopeia
Casseiopeia

The caption should be..."Dean looking for his dropped storyline"

gonzosgirrl
gonzosgirrl

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers ov

ahrtee
ahrtee

Also non-snarky:  I know I was hoping that the story would focus on Dean/Michael and not Sam learning to be a leader, Jack learning to be human, and Mary/Bobby.  I was hoping that we would get to actu

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

6 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

Yeah, I'm right there with you on this.

I just can't let go of what these asshats did(and more importantly, DIDN'T do) with the MichaelDean storyline.

I honestly hope that it's killed any attachment that Jensen might have still felt for the show because that's what it's done for me; and the most recent spoiler pics in the promo for what's coming up has only intensified that feeling in me even more.

If we're headed for Samifer(again!) or worse, MichaelSam, next season, that will be it for me and even Jensen won't be able to tempt me to watch that kind of garbage. 

This is why I didn't bother to even watch Nihilism.  I knew it was just a set up for a bait and switch. 

They were going to make the Michael story line even more pointless by bringing back Lucifer.  I think its inevitable at this point.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

This is why I didn't bother to even watch Nihilism.  I knew it was just a set up for a bait and switch. 

They were going to make the Michael story line even more pointless by bringing back Lucifer.  I think its inevitable at this point.

My last hope now is that they will kill Dean off in the season finale and we'll find out that Jensen is only going to be in S15 in a very limited role because an offer was made to him(with a WB blessing) that he couldn't refuse.

This is the only thing that could/would justify(and that even in just a miniscule way), what they did to the Michael!Dean storyline after Nihilism to me.

Otherwise, it doesn't make one bit of any kind of sense to me and indeed makes it seem to me more as if someone running the show literally lost their mind, at some point.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
1 hour ago, Myrelle said:

My last hope now is that they will kill Dean off in the season finale and we'll find out that Jensen is only going to be in S15 in a very limited role because an offer was made to him(with a WB blessing) that he couldn't refuse.

This is the only thing that could/would justify(and that even in just a miniscule way), what they did to the Michael!Dean storyline after Nihilism to me.

Otherwise, it doesn't make one bit of any kind of sense to me and indeed makes it seem to me more as if someone running the show literally lost their mind, at some point.

Better moved to BvJ. Sorry.

Edited by gonzosgirrl
ILoveReading

ILoveReading

So basically the rest of this season will be about Jack's identity crisis.  Which I don't care about since they did this last year and they'll never have the nerve to anger the the "i love everything about my sweet precious cinnamon roll jack" crowd so I doubt he'll be anything but off white for 20 minutes.

The brother (who I'm guessing will just be Dean) brush off concerns?  Since when?  Just so Mary can rush in and show motherly concern?  Talk about dumbing down the boys (again probably just Dean)for Snowflake Sue.  One again Mary rushes to the aid on anyone but her actual sons. 

This ep just sounds bad. 

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
9 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

This was less than 7 weeks ago. No one will ever convince me that Jensen (and possibly even Jared) didn't look at the scripts or at least the plan for the rest of this season and say fuuuuuuuuuuuuuck this. That TV guide blurb only convinces me more.

Yup.  Dean's always had great instincts, its one of his core characteristics.  He wouldn't need mommy rushing in to telll him.  He went through this exact same thing with Sam. He would know the signs.   Hell, Sam himself should see the signs since he went though it.

ETA:

Im guessing it is Dean getting lectured since we know he was the one that filmed with Sam Smith.

Edited by ILoveReading
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Myrelle

Myrelle

49 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

So basically the rest of this season will be about Jack's identity crisis.  Which I don't care about since they did this last year and they'll never have the nerve to anger the the "i love everything about my sweet precious cinnamon roll jack" crowd so I doubt he'll be anything but off white for 20 minutes.

The brother (who I'm guessing will just be Dean) brush off concerns?  Since when?  Just so Mary can rush in and show motherly concern?  Talk about dumbing down the boys (again probably just Dean)for Snowflake Sue.  One again Mary rushes to the aid on anyone but her actual sons. 

This ep just sounds bad. 

It sounds like Nougatnatural which started big time with Ouroboros and looks to be continuing.

I cannot even imagine what Dabb could have been thinking when he wrote this shit.

What an Asshole.

And I couldn't blame the Js one bit if they thought the same thing(and yes, especially Jensen!).

IDK, but maybe he truly was looking/trying to kill the show.

But if so, I hope it was worth sacrificing his own screen writing career over because if that is indeed the straw that broke the camel's back here everyone in the business will know of it-even if fandom never does.

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Lemuria

Lemuria

 Now they suddenly want to raise the nature versus nurture issue? After spending all this time just treating Jack like the cutest little cinnamon roll? And after dumping on Dean two years ago because he didn’t automatically see how wonderful Jack was and had some serious doubts about having him there?

They could have had a really interesting character if they had continued the type of behavior we saw in Fetus Jack, and if they had actually shown some conflict within him concerning the Lucifer half of his nature. It’s really too late now to either bring it up or make it at all interesting or realistic.

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juppschmitz

juppschmitz

4 hours ago, Lemuria said:

 Now they suddenly want to raise the nature versus nurture issue? After spending all this time just treating Jack like the cutest little cinnamon roll? And after dumping on Dean two years ago because he didn’t automatically see how wonderful Jack was and had some serious doubts about having him there?

They could have had a really interesting character if they had continued the type of behavior we saw in Fetus Jack, and if they had actually shown some conflict within him concerning the Lucifer half of his nature. It’s really too late now to either bring it up or make it at all interesting or realistic.

But guys, evilness is not hereditary. Lucifer is not evil because his from an evil species. He's just an asshole. 

Why should it even be part of Jack's ~nature~ 🙄🙄🙄

ILoveReading

ILoveReading

4 hours ago, juppschmitz said:

But guys, evilness is not hereditary. Lucifer is not evil because his from an evil species. He's just an asshole. 

Why should it even be part of Jack's ~nature~ 🙄🙄🙄

they can't keep they're own canon straight, there is no way they would remember that Lucifer only went bad becasue of the Mark of Cain.

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catrox14

catrox14

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2 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

they can't keep they're own canon straight, there is no way they would remember that Lucifer only went bad becasue of the Mark of Cain.

I thought they walked that back when Chuck said that the Mark enhanced more of what he already was so the nature v nurture was in play at that point.  That said your point about them not knowing nor following their own Canon stands LOL

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Photos for Game Night

Dollars to donuts, Dean (who built an EMF meter out of a walkman and has always been the mechanically inclined one) can't make the mousetrap work. Bonus points when Sam or Nougat Sue has to fix it for him.

dean.JPG

Well, mommy has to point out something's wrong with Jack so your probably not wrong.

I would also bet money on injured/limp/sick Sam saving the day.

This ep would be so much better if it was about Michael playing games in Dean's head.  I guess "not being idle" really did just mean pounding on the door.

Edited by ILoveReading
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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

Since we clearly have angel-healing of Sam in the promo and Cas looks off in his side plot, I think Dean will call the bunker, Jack will teleport there and heal Sam. Ultimately, it will be about the Nougat. And Lucifer. 

But agreed on Dean being made to look stupid during game night (and possibly the rest of it). 

And of course Mary is this warm motherly figure. Who never once even asked Dean how he was doing post-Michael (first or second time). She never was even around for that. But now hat Jackie-poo is in trouble, her motherly instincts are running wild. At least it`s consistent. Though I do find it weird that the writers and apparently the actress don`t want "nightgown!Mary" but very specifically only to her sons. 

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

I am really hoping the BTS thing that shows a crash test dummy version of Mary in the Impala means she dies in a fiery crash. Only problem with that is a) Baby! and b) she's in the passenger seat, which means someone else is in the car with her. Hey, maybe she takes Nougat Sue out for ice-cream and lets her baby boy drive.

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Lemuria

Lemuria

5 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

WTF?  Dean isn't closed off and hard.

He's the most open one. 

Seriously, fuck Dabb every which way

As much as I dislike Dabb, I have to admit that it hit me that he made that comment as a joke of sort, to break the bleak mood that Mary was in.

That last line of Mary's come across to as foreshadowing that she won't make it out of the season alive.  

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

(edited)
3 minutes ago, Lemuria said:

As much as I dislike Dabb, I have to admit that it hit me that he made that comment as a joke of sort, to break the bleak mood that Mary was in.

That last line of Mary's come across to as foreshadowing that she won't make it out of the season alive.  

I don't care what the reason for it.  I'm tried of it.  Because the writers tend to use Dean in these situations. 

Edited by ILoveReading
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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

WTF?  Dean isn't closed off and hard.

He's the most open one. 

Seriously, fuck Dabb every which way

They keep trying to explain Mary's cold distant behaviour.  Sorry, she was written as a disinterested mother that would rather be with anyone but her own sons.  To late to redeem her now.  I hope she is the one that is killed off...I really really hope...sorry Dean.

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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

(edited)
11 minutes ago, Casseiopeia said:

They keep trying to explain Mary's cold distant behaviour.  Sorry, she was written as a disinterested mother that would rather be with anyone but her own sons.  To late to redeem her now.  I hope she is the one that is killed off...I really really hope...sorry Dean.

Oh, that speech really sounds like the cop who brags about only having one more shift until they retire - you know they're a goner by the end of the hour. This, and the crash-test dummy Mary we saw in the BTS joke make me hopeful that this is why Dean is crying in the woods. Just don't hurt the Impala in that fiery crash!

Edited by gonzosgirrl
missed a word
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gonzosgirrl

gonzosgirrl

19 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

But the actress has apparently been shooting even for the Finale? And I would think the death is earlier than that. Unless Jack "brings her back". And it`s an even more horrifying version than the one Amara brought back.  

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers over her sons (who she then promptly forgot about once she was home). More horrifying? It boggles the imagination.

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Aeryn13

Aeryn13

3 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers over her sons (who she then promptly forgot about once she was home). More horrifying? It boggles the imagination.

I know, just imagine. 

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Bergamot

Bergamot

(edited)
15 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

So far she's chosen an institution that actively tried to murder her children over said children, Lucifer's kid over her sons, an old man (Not!Bobby) over her sons, and an entire world of strangers over her sons

Oh, but that's all okay, because she is "grateful for every day that she gets to spend" with Dean and Sam, right?

46 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

Yeah, it`s way too late to address Mary`s behaviour now after letting her coast on it and basically acting like she is right.

Yes, way too late. Maybe if the show had delved into what was wrong with Mary from the beginning. But the writers were too busy trying to show us what a cool badass woman she was, to allow any real exploration of the character.

58 minutes ago, bethy said:

Interesting to me that Dean essentially agreed with Mary that she is closed off and hard.

Well, he has pointed this out before, but he was made to look wrong and unfair by the writers for SUPPOSEDLY expecting Mary to stay home and bake cookies for him. Which was not what he was saying, of course.  But now we are supposed to feel sympathy for Mary's realization of her shortcomings? Sorry, but no.

Edited by Bergamot
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PAForrest

PAForrest

1 hour ago, Lemuria said:

That last line of Mary's come across to as foreshadowing that she won't make it out of the season alive.  

Even though death is a colossal joke on this show, no one watching can possibly take it seriously anymore, yeah, I'm back to thinking she's toast. Or, rather, I'll toast if and when Mary bites it, however temporary that is.

Like others have already pointed out, too little and WAY WAY WAY too late to attempt a quickie redemption for "hard, closed off" Mary Sue. Not buying it, sweetheart.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Even though death is a colossal joke on this show, no one watching can possibly take it seriously anymore, yeah, I'm back to thinking she's toast. Or, rather, I'll toast if and when Mary bites it, however temporary that is.

Like others have already pointed out, too little and WAY WAY WAY too late to attempt a quickie redemption for "hard, closed off" Mary Sue. Not buying it, 

5 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

I don't care what the reason for it.  I'm tried of it.  Because the writers tend to use Dean in these situations. 

IA.

Dean saying that he knows where he got it from makes it seem like he inherited that trait from her. 

Ummmmmm...no. 

That particular trait was nurtured in him via dear old dad more than anything else.

He was just trying to make her feel better about being an Ice Bitch since she returned from the dead IMO, too.

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Im sure the trauma antibodies will kick in and he'll be back to eating sandwiches and wanting to take naps in no time.

Nah. Dabb will make sure that he cries a river over yet another one of his pet characters, while *I* will just be hoping with all hope that her death will stick this time-even if it pains our boy-because in the end, the show will be better for it, Dearest Dean. 😉

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

8 minutes ago, Myrelle said:

He was just trying to make her feel better about being an Ice Bitch since she returned from the dead IMO, too.

Just once Id like to see one of his family members stick up for him.  When he degrades himself, I want them to tell him to stop.  Mary's only response here should be "you're not."  Instead she smiles like she agrees.

I know your love her Dean, but your better off without her.  Its not like she was ever there for you.  If she's gone you can stop insulting yourself on her behalf.

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Myrelle

Myrelle

15 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Just once Id like to see one of his family members stick up for him.  When he degrades himself, I want them to tell him to stop.  Mary's only response here should be "you're not."  Instead she smiles like she agrees.

I know your love her Dean, but your better off without her.  Its not like she was ever there for you.  If she's gone you can stop insulting yourself on her behalf.

This.

So much.

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Casseiopeia

Casseiopeia

4 hours ago, PAForrest said:

Even though death is a colossal joke on this show, no one watching can possibly take it seriously anymore, yeah, I'm back to thinking she's toast. Or, rather, I'll toast if and when Mary bites it, however temporary that is.

Like others have already pointed out, too little and WAY WAY WAY too late to attempt a quickie redemption for "hard, closed off" Mary Sue. Not buying it, sweetheart.

Not only that but the fact that she KNOWS how horrible she has been to her sons.  She knows how much she hurt them but for the last 3 years has continued her abhorrent behavior anyway.   Good job Andrew!

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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

On 3/29/2019 at 3:50 PM, Aeryn13 said:

Yeah, it`s way too late to address Mary`s behaviour now after letting her coast on it and basically acting like she is right. And Dean is nothing like that. He can make hard choices but he is hardly a closed-off ice-person. 

Seriously Dean is pretty much the opposite of both his parents.  He has a huge heart and warmth that can barely be contained, even though he has tried to do so at times.  Now see what would have been nice is if Mary answered "no you are one of the most caring people I've ever met", because that would be true to who Dean really is, unfortunately with Mary being the ice queen I guess she couldn't even melt a little for her son.

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Looks like Sam and Dean are arguing about something.  I'm sure Sam will win and Dean will learn a very special lesson about treating Sam like a big boy. 

My guess is that in order to take out Jack and Lucifer Sam wants to say yes to our world Michael.  They're arguing over who will say yes.  Sam will win, of course, because he needs to make up for getting the AU hunters killed.

Dean will be expected to go along or be accused of not trusting Sam/treating him like a child.

ILoveReading

ILoveReading

ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE ON A SHOCKING SEASON FINALE – Sam (Jared Padalecki), Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Castiel (Misha Collins) are thrown into an epic battle. Meanwhile, Jack (Alexander Calvert) becomes disenchanted with all the lies, and an old friend from the past shows up. Phil Sgriccia directed the episode written by Andrew Dabb (#1420). Original airdate 4/25/2019.

http://www.ksitetv.com/supernatural/supernatural-season-14-finale-description-moriah/191767/

Apparently Moriah was where God sacrificed Issac, so I called it when I said Sam and Dean were going to argue over who sacrifices themselves with Sam winning

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ILoveReading

ILoveReading

Here is what I don't get. If Jack did kill Mary and Dean hold Cas responsible because he didn't tell them Jack was dangerous why are they still fussing over Jack.  Shouldn't Dean have walked away from him too.

It's just going to make Dean look even worse. 

But it is the mark of a Mary Sue that every other character loves and immediately forgive.

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tessathereaper

tessathereaper

1 hour ago, ZennyKenny said:

Dean to Cas: "You're dead to me".

Me to the tv: "Oh fuck you."

I've got zero problem with Dean doing that.  Cas is the one keeping secrets and lying and it leads to stuff like this but Dean is supposed to just sigh disappointedly and let it go?  Cas deserves whatever he gets.

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DeeDee79

DeeDee79

(edited)
14 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

Cas is the one keeping secrets and lying and it leads to stuff like this

As also seen in seasons 4, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 12 & the present. Somehow Dean is always the one that is in the wrong for having feelings; it's amazing. *sigh*

Edited by DeeDee79
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ZennyKenny

ZennyKenny

41 minutes ago, tessathereaper said:

I've got zero problem with Dean doing that.  Cas is the one keeping secrets and lying and it leads to stuff like this but Dean is supposed to just sigh disappointedly and let it go?  Cas deserves whatever he gets.

To be clear, my problem isn't with Dean and Cas the characters, it's with the writers.

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ohjoy
Message added by ohjoy

Please keep your speculation and comments on the end of Supernatural in the Supernatural Ending topic. Use this topic here or the Spoilers With Speculation topic for discussion of the upcoming season only. As always, keep Bitch vs. Jerk discussion in its own topic.

Thank you.

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