These Spoilers Suck: Bitter Speculation About SPN Spoilers

[Castiels Cat]

1 hour ago, Casseiopeia said:

Is anyone talking about Misha's interview?  He made it sound like whoever Dean becomes is the Big Bad for S14.

Well ... this was obvious I think.  Season's 12 and 13 are the beginning of a heroic tragic fall and redemption arc for Dean similar to what they did for Sam in seasons 8- 11.  

So there has to be a fall... negative ramifications for the tragic flaw.  Then a redemption arc which in Dean's case will be about healing since his,tragic flaw is less about a character flaw like Sam's hubris and more about the depression and low self worth that leads to his belief that his sacrifice is the answer to every problem.   

[Castiels Cat]

2 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

A few scenes in an ep isn't the same as multiple episodes.  IMO, the show will never go there for long than an episode or two at most.

Bring em back alive... the entire episode.

We will get more than the 2 we got for D2.

We will see I guess.

Both Dean and Michael are mentally ill. All season they hit Dean's mental illness and all season we saw so many other mentally ill characters. Michael is definitely going to be nuts.

Whether they run with it or not....?

I can see them going for a Gotham Asylum vibe with it... or they chicken out because Singer had no vision. 

At this point they have nothing to lose.  They are golden on the CW.  Might as well push rhat envelope. 

[Casseiopeia]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

Well ... this was obvious I think.  Season's 12 and 13 are the beginning of a heroic tragic fall and redemption arc for Dean similar to what they did for Sam in seasons 8- 11.  

So there has to be a fall... negative ramifications for the tragic flaw.  Then a redemption arc which in Dean's case will be about healing since his,tragic flaw is less about a character flaw like Sam's hubris and more about the depression and low self worth that leads to his belief that his sacrifice is the answer to every problem.   

But what is different about Dean feeling depressed and having low self esteem?  Hasn't that been a character trait since S1?  Why would that make Dean agree to become another world destroying monster?  I certainly hope this isn't where we are going with Dean.

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

Both Dean and Michael are mentally ill.

What?!

[ILoveReading]

1 minute ago, Castiels Cat said:

Bring em back alive... the entire episode.

We will get more than the 2 we got for D2.

We will see I guess.

Both Dean and Michael are mentally ill. All season they hit Dean's mental illness and all season we saw so many other mentally ill characters. Michael is definitely going to be nuts.

Whether they run with it or not....?

I can see them going for a Gotham Asylum vibe with it... or they chicken out because Singer had no vision. 

At this point they have nothing to lose.  They are golden on the CW.  Might as well push rhat envelope. 

The and beginning scene of bring em back alive had Sam and Dean interacting. 

I'm not convinced its going to be cage Michael.  He's been ignored all season, not sure why someone would bring him up now. 

I figure 3 episodes at most.

[Res]

6 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/17/supernatural-season-13-finale-jensen-ackles/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=entertainmentweekly&utm_medium=social

Its disappointing that once again Dean is just reduced to protecting Sam instead of being given a world saving moment.

If that does happen, it's the BIGGEST reason I'm so looking forward to Jensen playing a new character. Dabb/Singer having Dean be ALL about SAM all the time is really ruining the character for me. Dean is so much more IMO than just "Sam's big Brother" like they want to treat him.

 

I hate to say it but I also think it will unfortunately be AUMichael/Dean to kill Lucifer so that Dean can save same. AND I'm Going to HATE EVERY MINUTE OF IT!

But that totally lines up with Dabb's "Giv'em what they want, just not in the way they want it".

I Really DESPISE that Man!

[ILoveReading]

From @catrox14 in the spoiler thread.

Quote

You're more optimistic than me. I fully expect a time jump like s10 and the strangers will be Sam and Jack without Dean.

Other then Jensen getting to stretch his acting muscles a bit as Michael I can't get excited about this storyline with Dabb behind it.   This is why.  I think it will be very shallow and superficial.  I think we'll get a glimpses of Dean and see lots of sloppy eating and flirting with woman.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dabb Simpsonizes* this storyline as well and show that Jack and Sam are doing perfectly fine without Dean and hunting successfully and bonding and then Jack saving Dean with his powers or with a spell rather than letting Dean fight off Michael.   

Then Dean having to prove he trusts Sam again and learn to let him go because ultimately Dean failed with both controlling Michael and killing Lucifer whom I fully expect to be back. 

*Simponize- Is a reference to an episode of The Simpsons where Homer gets to see what his families life would be like if he wans't in their lives and everyone of them was better off. 

[Pondlass1]

I wonder if Jensen is going to be dressed in 1940s style for a few episodes. I wonder if there'll be the usual Dad to Dean video or if he'll be kept under wraps so not to spoil the surprise.  They start filming soon.

[catrox14]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

 

Looks like there is a good chance Bobby is going to be in the premier.

 I wonder now if he'll be a series regular if Lucifer isn't coming back.
 

Quote

 

Quote

Three hours’ sleep before heading to the airport for three hours’ travel and a day of prep for the first day of Supernatural season 14! If I weren’t so tired, I’d be excited

 

.https://www.facebook.com/Jim-Beaver-254377915494/

This really does not thrill me as it seems to imply that Jim will be regular or recurring.  .

I was over OG Bobby back in s5 and was okay with his death in s7. I could barely tolerate Ghost!Bobby. Surprisingly, I  kind of enjoyed the few minutes with  AU!Bobby back in 12.23, because he seemed quite unlike OG!Bobby which was a big plus for me. He had a different demeanor was kind of snarky in a good way. 

And then in 13.23,  they decided to turn him into an OG!Bobby clone spouting Bobbyisms like saying "idgit" and "What in the Sam Hill!" .  And now he's  uninterested in saving the people he was speechifying about in 13.22, and more interested in making googly eyes at Mary.  Ugh. DO NOT WANT.  Dean saying, "He's taking over the place' was same A+ lampshading  LOL

I'll bet A!Bobby will have something to do with giving Sam, Jack and Cas intel on AU Michael. It really should be AU Michael's vessel giving most of the intel, but I'll bet they have him not be able to remember much so it will have to be AU!Bobby giving the 411 in the quest to help rescue Dean from AU!Michael. 

And I absolutely don't want any romance between AU!Bobby and Mary, which was being strongly hinted at in 13.23 with that stupid walk in the rain with Mary and AU Bobby.

Of course, if a romance does come to pass between, it's because Dabb and Singer will view it as Saint Mary deserving such a great man as Saint Bobby Singer because the boys loved Bobby.  It's one thing for OG!Bobby to be presented as the surrogate father to them after John died and quite another to make AU!Bobby and Mary a thing. It's just, .no thank you.  Even if I liked Mary, I would be against that pairing. To be clear,  I hated John because he was a shitty father in many ways after Mary died but he did seem like a good husband to Mary and a good father when the boys were under 5. Putting AU!Bobby and Mary together would to me be just another swipe at John and I don't even think John would deserve THAT kind of erasure.

[Jonesy]

24 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

 I wonder now if he'll be a series regular if Lucifer isn't coming back.
 

.https://www.facebook.com/Jim-Beaver-254377915494/

This really does not thrill me as it seems to imply that Jim will be regular or recurring.  .

I was over OG Bobby back in s5 and was okay with his death in s7. I could barely tolerate Ghost!Bobby. Surprisingly, I  kind of enjoyed the few minutes with  AU!Bobby back in 12.23, because he seemed quite unlike OG!Bobby which was a big plus for me. He had a different demeanor was kind of snarky in a good way. 

And then in 13.23,  they decided to turn him into an OG!Bobby clone spouting Bobbyisms like saying "idgit" and "What in the Sam Hill!" .  And now he's  uninterested in saving the people he was speechifying about in 13.22, and more interested in making googly eyes at Mary.  Ugh. DO NOT WANT.  Dean saying, "He's taking over the place' was same A+ lampshading  LOL

I'll bet A!Bobby will have something to do with giving Sam, Jack and Cas intel on AU Michael. It really should be AU Michael's vessel giving most of the intel, but I'll bet they have him not be able to remember much so it will have to be AU!Bobby giving the 411 in the quest to help rescue Dean from AU!Michael. 

And I absolutely don't want any romance between AU!Bobby and Mary, which was being strongly hinted at in 13.23 with that stupid walk in the rain with Mary and AU Bobby.

Of course, if a romance does come to pass between, it's because Dabb and Singer will view it as Saint Mary deserving such a great man as Saint Bobby Singer because the boys loved Bobby.  It's one thing for OG!Bobby to be presented as the surrogate father to them after John died and quite another to make AU!Bobby and Mary a thing. It's just, .no thank you.  Even if I liked Mary, I would be against that pairing. To be clear,  I hated John because he was a shitty father in many ways after Mary died but he did seem like a good husband to Mary and a good father when the boys were under 5. Putting AU!Bobby and Mary together would to me be just another swipe at John and I don't even think John would deserve THAT kind of erasure.

They obviously are going for Bobby/Mary romance.  It doesn't bother me a bit.  And always liked Bobby in all his versions.  And I LOVE John--nothing takes away from him ever imo.

Edited July 9, 2018 by Jakes

[DeeDee79]

46 minutes ago, Jakes said:

They obviously are going for Bobby/Mary romance.  It doesn't bother me a bit.  And always liked Bobby in all his versions.  And I LOVE John--nothing takes away from him ever imo.

Personally I have zero interest in Bobby and Mary as a couple. We have had a scant amount of scenes with her with Sam and Dean when they weren’t dealing with a catastrophe and we’ve already had plenty of Bobby character development without needing a new SL. Also even though it’s supposed to be a different Bobby I still find it somewhat gross based on regular Bobby’s relationship with John whether it was strained or not. I want to see Mary connecting with her sons the way I hoped to see in seasons 12 & 13, not a burgeoning relationship with yet another character. YMMV.

[catrox14]

46 minutes ago, DeeDee79 said:

I want to see Mary connecting with her sons the way I hoped to see in seasons 12 & 13, not a burgeoning relationship with yet another character. YMMV.

Seriously! And of course, if Dean or Sam have any issues with this pairing, then they will be shamed in the narrative for not letting Mary be her own person as if their opinions would matter to her anyway cause they didn't the rest of the time.

[Jonesy]

1 hour ago, DeeDee79 said:

Personally I have zero interest in Bobby and Mary as a couple. We have had a scant amount of scenes with her with Sam and Dean when they weren’t dealing with a catastrophe and we’ve already had plenty of Bobby character development without needing a new SL. Also even though it’s supposed to be a different Bobby I still find it somewhat gross based on regular Bobby’s relationship with John whether it was strained or not. I want to see Mary connecting with her sons the way I hoped to see in seasons 12 & 13, not a burgeoning relationship with yet another character. YMMV.

Meh, I think they can do both.

[gonzosgirrl]

43 minutes ago, Jakes said:

Meh, I think they can do both.

They haven't been able to so far. First Mary connected (heh) with Ketch, then Jack, now, apparently, Bobby. We've yet to see her make any effort at all to connect with Sam or Dean on any level beyond hunting.

[Jonesy]

5 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They haven't been able to so far. First Mary connected (heh) with Ketch, then Jack, now, apparently, Bobby. We've yet to see her make any effort at all to connect with Sam or Dean on any level beyond hunting.

I think she's had moments of connection with the boys--not enough but it was there, so we disagree some on that.

[ILoveReading]

18 minutes ago, Jakes said:

I think she's had moments of connection with the boys--not enough but it was there, so we disagree some on that.

The only moment I can really remember of her asking her sons about themselves was in 12.02 where Mary asked Sam why he went back to hunting.  Other than that everything else has been kind of shallow and superficial like beef jerky flavors and music.

The writers don't seem capable of anything beyond.  Layers aren't exactly their strong suit.

[Res]

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They haven't been able to so far. First Mary connected (heh) with Ketch, then Jack, now, apparently, Bobby. We've yet to see her make any effort at all to connect with Sam or Dean on any level beyond hunting.

She slightly connected with Sam during the MoL thing and she will probably connect with Sam as Jack helps her and Sam and (UGH!)Bobby look for clues on Mean. But rest assured we will not have to worry about her connecting with Dean when he's "saved" other than telling him she could have saved everyone without him giving Michael his perfect vessel. 

I'm so over everyone except Dean that I really do believe Micheal is giving Dean a much better life in whatever dream he has him locked in. Hopefully that will make a difference whenever he is "saved".

ETA: Dean will have his connection moment with his family when he apologizes to everyone for saying, 'yes', to Micheal. There will be the standard meaningless BM Bro-Hug. Mary acknowledging his apology so he gets 1 hug before she leaves him for anyone but him. And Charlie "forgives" him for not waiting for her because we all know she save Oz single handedly so Lucifer is "no big, bitches".  Mary, Rowena and her "totes" had it handled, stupid wean. (BLECH! I just made myself throw up in my mouth a little.)

Edited July 9, 2018 by Res

[DeeDee79]

1 hour ago, Jakes said:

Meh, I think they can do both.

I don't.

44 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

They haven't been able to so far. First Mary connected (heh) with Ketch, then Jack, now, apparently, Bobby. We've yet to see her make any effort at all to connect with Sam or Dean on any level beyond hunting.

And this is why.

[devlin]

I am confused at why there will be any great attempt to save dean. Sam will finally be free of his bossy domineering big brother, he will be allowed to sit at the adult table! He will be able to develop a relationship with his mother( she sure as hell won’t care that dean is not there), he gets to be a big brother to jack( who he has shown more concern about his welfare than Dean’s) Then with bobby forming a relationship with Mary the perfect family will have been created. Though cas will be concerned about dean. 

[Jonesy]

1 hour ago, ILoveReading said:

The only moment I can really remember of her asking her sons about themselves was in 12.02 where Mary asked Sam why he went back to hunting.  Other than that everything else has been kind of shallow and superficial like beef jerky flavors and music.

The writers don't seem capable of anything beyond.  Layers aren't exactly their strong suit.

I'm not saying had great depth but it was there in various moments.  Could have it been done better?  Yes.

[Res]

14 minutes ago, devlin said:

I am confused at why there will be any great attempt to save dean. Sam will finally be free of his bossy domineering big brother, he will be allowed to sit at the adult table! He will be able to develop a relationship with his mother( she sure as hell won’t care that dean is not there), he gets to be a big brother to jack( who he has shown more concern about his welfare than Dean’s) Then with bobby forming a relationship with Mary the perfect family will have been created. Though cas will be concerned about dean. 

Agree with this so much! Wish I could do more than love it!

[Bobcatkitten]

Sam said in The Purge that he wouldn't try to save Dean so maybe we will see that come back to bite his sanctimonious ass? I mean it was bullshit then since he TRIED to trade his soul to get Dean out of Hell except that no demon would deal. Ugh. I just rewatched that episode and it makes me seethe.

[BabySpinach]

8 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Sam said in The Purge that he wouldn't try to save Dean so maybe we will see that come back to bite his sanctimonious ass? I mean it was bullshit then since he TRIED to trade his soul to get Dean out of Hell except that no demon would deal. Ugh. I just rewatched that episode and it makes me seethe.

I mean Sam was pretty much forced to eat those sanctimonious words all throughout season 10. Sure, Dean was willing to lie to his brother about being possessed by an angel, for fear he would then immediately cast it out and die, but Sam was willing to fuck over the entire world to the Darkness to cure Dean of something that wasn't even threatening his life. This doesn't make me any less mad at The Purge, but Sam's proclamations have been thoroughly refuted since then. The writers probably realized they went too far in season 9 so they scrambled to overcompensate for that in seasons 10 and 11. I would've preferred that Sam never said any of that in the first place, and that he wasn't then forced into a really heavy-handed audience sympathy redemption journey, but it was better than letting those words stand.

I'm sure that Sam will do whatever he can to save Dean, and Sam has done and gone through enough for that to not be hypocritical. Seasons 11, 12 and 13 sure have their flaws (!!!), but I sure don't miss the dour, cranky, downright unpleasant brothers' dynamic of seasons 8 and 9. 

[Reganne]

20 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Sam said in The Purge that he wouldn't try to save Dean so maybe we will see that come back to bite his sanctimonious ass? I mean it was bullshit then since he TRIED to trade his soul to get Dean out of Hell except that no demon would deal. Ugh. I just rewatched that episode and it makes me seethe.

Didn't that already bite him in the ass with what Sam did when Dean had the MOC? 

[BoxManLocke]

1 hour ago, devlin said:

I am confused at why there will be any great attempt to save dean. Sam will finally be free of his bossy domineering big brother, he will be allowed to sit at the adult table! He will be able to develop a relationship with his mother( she sure as hell won’t care that dean is not there), he gets to be a big brother to jack( who he has shown more concern about his welfare than Dean’s) Then with bobby forming a relationship with Mary the perfect family will have been created. Though cas will be concerned about dean. 

Seriously, this victim complex has got to stop. The writing was terrible for both guys in season 13, so how about we don't go and cherry-pick a few lines that went nowhere or act as if the lack of character arcs for both Sam and Dean was more beneficial for one over the other ?

Sam, Jack and Cass will try to save Dean because that's how it's supposed to work, because he sacrificed himself to save their asses from Lucifer. And that's a decent enough start for next season.

 

One thing about Bobby though, I am so over the character in any shape or form. His annual comebacks because reasons were already frustrating because they stopped adding anything of value a long time ago, but bringing back the character full time ? Why ? There's nothing left to explore, unless you're okay going the trashy fanfic way with Mary. And it seems nothing is off-limits these days, so here we are.

The writers have a choice, they can either try to inject some new stuff in a show that desperately needs it, or they can keep parading the corpse of Supernatural around like a fucking puppet for those who are only interested in having their nostalgia quota filled, creativity be damned.

[gonzosgirrl]

I think Jason Fischer said it best. (If 'office' means 'writer's room)

[devlin]

24 minutes ago, BoxManLocke said:

Seriously, this victim complex has got to stop. The writing was terrible for both guys in season 13, so how about we don't go and cherry-pick a few lines that went nowhere or act as if the lack of character arcs for both Sam and Dean was more beneficial for one over the other ?

 

Never said dean was a victim or that the writers are ignoring dean. Sam as far back as season 1 has been pushing back against dean and now is his perfect chance to become himself and not be in his brother’s shadow.

[DeeDee79]

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Sam said in The Purge that he wouldn't try to save Dean so maybe we will see that come back to bite his sanctimonious ass? I mean it was bullshit then since he TRIED to trade his soul to get Dean out of Hell except that no demon would deal. Ugh. I just rewatched that episode and it makes me seethe.

Still haven't rewatched it after the first time!

2 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

One thing about Bobby though, I am so over the character in any shape or form. His annual comebacks because reasons were already frustrating because they stopped adding anything of value a long time ago, but bringing back the character full time ? Why ? There's nothing left to explore, unless you're okay going the trashy fanfic way with Mary. And it seems nothing is off-limits these days, so here we are.

Yes! I couldn't agree more with all of this.

[Casseiopeia]

2 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Sam said in The Purge that he wouldn't try to save Dean so maybe we will see that come back to bite his sanctimonious ass? I mean it was bullshit then since he TRIED to trade his soul to get Dean out of Hell except that no demon would deal. Ugh. I just rewatched that episode and it makes me seethe.

Except that wasn't what Sam said.  He said he wouldn't save Dean "same circumstances", he didn't say under any circumstances.  If Dean were dying and the only way to save him was to do something that went against everything that Dean believed in Sam would respect that.  Can you imagine if the tables had been turned how pissed Dean would have been with Sam?  Especially if having Dean possessed caused the death of a protected family member?  Sam would have been in the doghouse for the rest of the season.

[gonzosgirrl]

Moving to B v J

Edited July 10, 2018 by gonzosgirrl

[Jonesy]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I think Jason Fischer said it best. (If 'office' means 'writer's room)

Fischer is talking about the Production office getting ready with a lot to do a day before the actors show up...not the writers room.

[AwesomO4000]

4 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

Seasons 11, 12 and 13 sure have their flaws (!!!), but I sure don't miss the dour, cranky, downright unpleasant brothers' dynamic of seasons 8 and 9. 

This. So much this.

3 hours ago, devlin said:

Sam as far back as season 1 has been pushing back against dean and now is his perfect chance to become himself and not be in his brother’s shadow.

Taking this to "B vs J" just in case...

1 hour ago, gonzosgirrl said:

The tables were turned and this is exactly what Sam did with the MoC and Dean not only didn't put him in the doghouse beyond an admittedly cruel statement (it should be you up there), Sam's 'punishment' didn't even last an episode. By 12x01 Dean was taking the blame along side him.

Taken to "B vs J"

Edited July 10, 2018 by AwesomO4000

[Res]

4 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

I mean Sam was pretty much forced to eat those sanctimonious words all throughout season 10. Sure, Dean was willing to lie to his brother about being possessed by an angel, for fear he would then immediately cast it out and die, but Sam was willing to fuck over the entire world to the Darkness to cure Dean of something that wasn't even threatening his life. This doesn't make me any less mad at The Purge, but Sam's proclamations have been thoroughly refuted since then. The writers probably realized they went too far in season 9 so they scrambled to overcompensate for that in seasons 10 and 11. I would've preferred that Sam never said any of that in the first place, and that he wasn't then forced into a really heavy-handed audience sympathy redemption journey, but it was better than letting those words stand.

I'm sure that Sam will do whatever he can to save Dean, and Sam has done and gone through enough for that to not be hypocritical. Seasons 11, 12 and 13 sure have their flaws (!!!), but I sure don't miss the dour, cranky, downright unpleasant brothers' dynamic of seasons 8 and 9. 

Taken to "B vs J"

[gonzosgirrl]

2 hours ago, Jakes said:

Fischer is talking about the Production office getting ready with a lot to do a day before the actors show up...not the writers room.

I know he was. I wasn't.

[trxr4kids]

I was thinking about the outfit Mean is wearing and assuming doesn't change clothes, it seems likely to there won't be any action scenes. The overcoat seems like it would restrict even arm movement maybe, I'm not sure. But the hat is downright impractical. I'm thinking just based on that the story wraps up in 3 eps or less with no quality action scenes and little if any supernatural power displays. I think we'll be stuck with glowy eyes as the only indication that some ability is being used, if any abilities are given to the character that is.

22 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I was over OG Bobby back in s5 and was okay with his death in s7. I could barely tolerate Ghost!Bobby.

Right, I FFW'd through a lot of that, it was ridiculous.

22 hours ago, catrox14 said:

And I absolutely don't want any romance between AU!Bobby and Mary, which was being strongly hinted at in 13.23 with that stupid walk in the rain with Mary and AU Bobby.

You have to wonder whose bright idea that was cause it was laughable IMO.

16 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

One thing about Bobby though, I am so over the character in any shape or form. His annual comebacks because reasons were already frustrating because they stopped adding anything of value a long time ago, but bringing back the character full time ? Why ? There's nothing left to explore, unless you're okay going the trashy fanfic way with Mary. And it seems nothing is off-limits these days, so here we are.

I couldn't agree more with this. I'm not sure anymore if they bring him back because they think the viewers want it or they bring him back because they can copy and paste all of his dialogue and fit him in anywhere, anytime, in an attempt to elicit nostalgic audience "feels". 

[Jonesy]

12 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I know he was. I wasn't.

Ah humor--lol.

[catrox14]

2 hours ago, trxr4kids said:

I was thinking about the outfit Mean is wearing and assuming doesn't change clothes, it seems likely to there won't be any action scenes. The overcoat seems like it would restrict even arm movement maybe, I'm not sure. But the hat is downright impractical. I'm thinking just based on that the story wraps up in 3 eps or less with no quality action scenes and little if any supernatural power displays. I think we'll be stuck with glowy eyes as the only indication that some ability is being used, if any abilities are given to the character that is.

Dean fights in his overcoat when he wears his Fed threads.  I hold out some hope he'll be doing some fisticuffs in the coat and jaunty cap. :)

[trxr4kids]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

Dean fights in his overcoat when he wears his Fed threads.  I hold out some hope he'll be doing some fisticuffs in the coat and jaunty cap. :)

I admit that I haven't been paying close attention lately but what I do recall is that they're conveniently back in street clothes for action scenes. I'm so hoping you're right on this because otherwise it's just another disappointment for me.

[catrox14]

21 minutes ago, trxr4kids said:

I admit that I haven't been paying close attention lately but what I do recall is that they're conveniently back in street clothes for action scenes. I'm so hoping you're right on this because otherwise it's just another disappointment for me.

Not always. I was rewatching Jump the Shark when Dean came to help save Sam from being dragged under the car and he had on his long overcoat and brandished a shotgun with a cool shot of him shooting underneath the car and dragging Sam out from under it.  Dean was  wearing his overcoat in s9 when he was captured by the demon in Captives and used his legs to take him down when Sam came in the room. In s12, Dean and Sam both fought the Nazi necromancers in their fed threads and Dean went into where Jody and Claire were held by the vampires and had some action there.   I think there are more but I have to research it, but those come to mind right away.  I also think because Jensen chose the wardrobe, I tend to think he factored action movement into the equation.

[MysteryGuest]

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I love Bobby and I'll be happy if he's back on a semi-regular basis.  I loved his relationship with Sam and Dean and was glad they had him when John went off the rails, and after he died.  To me, it makes perfect sense that he and Mary would become a thing.  And if I really get Bobby in place of Lucifer, I'll be doing a happy dance all season long.  

[Bobcatkitten]

8 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I love Bobby and I'll be happy if he's back on a semi-regular basis.  I loved his relationship with Sam and Dean and was glad they had him when John went off the rails, and after he died.  To me, it makes perfect sense that he and Mary would become a thing.  And if I really get Bobby in place of Lucifer, I'll be doing a happy dance all season long.  

I'm cool with Bobby sticking around. I love the relationship he has with Sam and Dean.

But not Mary and not them as a couple. I'm over her completely.

[ILoveReading]

Bobby isn't back.  He's salted and burned.  This is a guy who looks and sounds like Bobby but has no relationship with Sam and Dean.   He shouldn't have any one.  They're complete strangers to him.  So if they have Bobby 2.0 suddenly all concerned about Sam and Dean and have him act the exact same way towards them, its lazy writing.  

AU characters aren't supposed to be interchangeable, but I suspect they're going to cheat and have this Bobby act exactly like original Bobby. 

[Res]

33 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

Bobby isn't back.  He's salted and burned.  This is a guy who looks and sounds like Bobby but has no relationship with Sam and Dean.   He shouldn't have any one.  They're complete strangers to him.  So if they have Bobby 2.0 suddenly all concerned about Sam and Dean and have him act the exact same way towards them, its lazy writing.  

AU characters aren't supposed to be interchangeable, but I suspect they're going to cheat and have this Bobby act exactly like original Bobby. 

Which makes me hate him being back all the more.

[ILoveReading]

2 minutes ago, Res said:

Which makes me hate him being back all the more.

Same, because his sanctimonious lecturing is going to be all the more grating because he doesn't know Sam or Dean, their life, their experiences, their traumas, or their resason for doing things.   He has no right to criticize the things they do.

It will be even more annoying.

[catrox14]

54 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I guess my unpopular opinion is that I love Bobby and I'll be happy if he's back on a semi-regular basis.  I loved his relationship with Sam and Dean and was glad they had him when John went off the rails, and after he died.  To me, it makes perfect sense that he and Mary would become a thing.  And if I really get Bobby in place of Lucifer, I'll be doing a happy dance all season long.  

It would be one thing if this was OG!Bobby, but it's not. AU!Bobby is basically a substitute, just like AU!Charlie. IMO, it's kind of gross and creepy that the show seems to have Sam and Dean just accept them both as if they are the resurrected original recipe friends and loved ones.  I mean if I were OG!Bobby and OG!Charlie and showed back up as themselves and the boys are all "Hey we love your doppelgangers"...well I, personally, would be mad as hell at them and be like, seriously? 'You know they aren't us, right??" 

I just hate this kind of writing. They do the same stupid thing on Arrow and it really pisses me off. 

[BoxManLocke]

3 hours ago, ILoveReading said:

Bobby isn't back.  He's salted and burned.  This is a guy who looks and sounds like Bobby but has no relationship with Sam and Dean.   He shouldn't have any one.  They're complete strangers to him.  So if they have Bobby 2.0 suddenly all concerned about Sam and Dean and have him act the exact same way towards them, its lazy writing.  

AU characters aren't supposed to be interchangeable, but I suspect they're going to cheat and have this Bobby act exactly like original Bobby. 

Great post.

The way they're completely fine with making alternate characters be carbon copies of their original selves is cheap, lame and nonsensical. I'd actually be somewhat interested in a completely different Bobby because that would at least be new. But no, we're going to pretend we're right back in season seven because creating stuff is haaaard.

The only reason why this isn't a full resurrection is because they're hoping Bobby banging Mary will be less awkward. "Hey, but it's not actually our Bobby so it's cool !".

Also, SPN has always, and I mean always, sucked at romance that lasted longer than an episode. Just because we're talking about two established characters doesn't mean it's going to magically work this time, especially with the steep decline in the quality of the writing we've experienced in seasons 12 and 13. BuckLeming working on a Mary/Bobby love story is already nightmare-inducing.

 

You know you can really start to feel a show's age when it's just about the same roster of characters but slightly shuffled around to create an illusion of variety.

 

Thank God Jack and Dean!Michael will be there to spice things up a bit. The heaven storyline had some potential but they just had to have another useless character return. If Naomi's still a big part of that, I won't be able to enjoy it.

[MysteryGuest]

I think the show is winding down, and Jim Beaver/Bobby was and still is a pretty popular character, so they opted to find a way to bring him back.  I don't think that Sam or Dean are confused about the fact that Bobby isn't really their Bobby.  But I do expect that relationship to grow.  Knowing they were very close before, and basically being the same person, just with a different set of life experiences, it's not completely crazy that they'd become friends again.  It will be different, but could still be nice for us Bobby fans.  I guess we'll have to see.  Not sure what the plan is for Charlie.  Again, based on the backlash they received when they killed her off, they may be thinking the same sort of thing for her character.  I enjoyed both of these characters, so I don't have a big problem with it, but I get that not everyone feels the same way about them.  

[ILoveReading]

7 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

nowing they were very close before, and basically being the same person, just with a different set of life experiences, it's not completely crazy that they'd become friends again.

No, its not completely crazy but it shouldn't happen overnight.   It should take time to build a relationship. 

I found the more they tried to turn Bobby into a father figure the more they turned him into John who repeated the same dynamics John did with Sam and Dean.  Sam matters, Dean is the bodyguard/not a person. 

I'd rather they just be colleagues.  The paternal relationship shouldn't be there because they don't know this Bobby, and he doesn't know them.

It's the same with Charlie.  The way they had Dean react it was like he was confusing her with OW Charlie.  They keep saying that she's this great military leader and Ketch should thank his lucky stars Charlie allowed him to tag along.  But both times we saw her she was captured and needed resucing.  Not exactly a great track record. 

I need the show, not the tell.

[MysteryGuest]

3 minutes ago, ILoveReading said:

It's the same with Charlie.  The way they had Dean react it was like he was confusing her with OW Charlie.  They keep saying that she's this great military leader and Ketch should thank his lucky stars Charlie allowed him to tag along.  But both times we saw her she was captured and needed resucing.  Not exactly a great track record. 

I need the show, not the tell.

Well, this is a recurring issue on the show, even with Sam and Dean.  They're supposed to be these amazing hunters, but they sure can be made to look pretty inept when the plot calls for it.  Just lazy writing.

[catrox14]

1 hour ago, MysteryGuest said:

  Knowing they were very close before, and basically being the same person, just with a different set of life experiences, it's not completely crazy that they'd become friends again. 

But that's the rub. His life is not the same as OG!Bobby's.  He doesn't have the same ideals, the same likes and dislikes.  The fact that he's jonesing for Mary is indicative that he's not the same.  I don't believe for a minute OG!Bobby would ever have gone for Mary because of John.  It's like this dude just shows up and gets awarded Mary and Sam and Dean because he happens to look like Bobby and is alive?  It's gross IMO. 

I don't even like Mary and I sure don't think the Mary from the past that I did like should be stuck with any version of Bobby.  Now if this was resurrected OG!Bobby who I really did dislike as of s4 and the Mary from now, sure put them together and send them back to the AU and let that be the end of it but that's not what they are selling.

I have lost any respect I had for AU!Bobby when he decided to do fuck all to save the people he was making a big speech about saving.  When is he gonna bail out of helping Sam and Dean or anyone else, because he doesn't want to do it?   They have done AU!Bobby a disservice in the interest of terrible fanservice IMO.

[MysteryGuest]

23 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

But that's the rub. His life is not the same as OG!Bobby's.  He doesn't have the same ideals, the same likes and dislikes.  The fact that he's jonesing for Mary is indicative that he's not the same.  I don't believe for a minute OG!Bobby would ever have gone for Mary because of John.  It's like this dude just shows up and gets awarded Mary and Sam and Dean because he happens to look like Bobby and is alive?  It's gross IMO. 

I don't even like Mary and I sure don't think the Mary from the past that I did like should be stuck with any version of Bobby.  Now if this was resurrected OG!Bobby who I really did dislike as of s4 and the Mary from now, sure put them together and send them back to the AU and let that be the end of it but that's not what they are selling.

I have lost any respect I had for AU!Bobby when he decided to do fuck all to save the people he was making a big speech about saving.  When is he gonna bail out of helping Sam and Dean or anyone else, because he doesn't want to do it?   They have done AU!Bobby a disservice in the interest of terrible fanservice IMO.

But AU Bobby already knew Mary...or at least another version of her.  Our Bobby never knew Mary.  My assumption always was that John didn't meet Bobby until after Mary was killed.  I don't know that that was ever explicitly stated, but it's what I always thought.  I guess I just don't look at it that he's being "awarded" Mary, Sam and Dean.  Circumstances threw them together again, and they helped each other.  It's not perfect, and I get that I probably wouldn't like it if I wasn't a Bobby fan, so I won't fault you for what you're feeling.  But this show has done a lot of crap, especially lately, that I haven't liked, so getting Bobby back feels like a win for me.