A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[HoodlumSheep]

The Zarian thing kind of diminishes the season 3 finale, and it was so good. Marian is such an awesome character, and it's painful to know she really did die there in the forest. But I still call retcon, mainly for the season 4 premiere, where she nearly got killed by the snow monster while everyone else was unconscious. There's no way that Zelena wouldn't have unleashed her own magic to save herself when no one else was looking. She didn't know Regina was there. And I certainly can't imagine her so earnestly thanking Regina for saving her, not with a straight face.

I think A&E's biggest mistake was not telling Christie the plot!twist they had planned. Or at least I don't think Christie knew beforehand. I loved Marian and Christie played her well. If she knew of the twist beforehand, I'm sure she would have acted some of those scenes differently.

Cause you are right: real Marian is what we saw in 4x01. She was ready to try defending herself and all the unconscious people. That was in no way Zelena.

[andromeda331]

I think it was a mistake bringing Marian back at all. I mean having her being the one Emma brings back.

Somehow A&E thought that was a clever twist and somehow not realizing most people weren't going

to be able to get past the part where Regina murdered Marian in the past, she was alive now

thanks to Emma. And it only got worse when they put Marian on ice. A&E were shocked that people

were horrified and/or grossed out by their twist. It wasn't romantic. It made Robin and Regina

both look even the worse. They were clearly weren't expecting that. They only came up with

the Zelena is Marian as a way to undo the whole thing. See? It wasn't so bad that Robin

and Regina had crypt sex, it wasn't really Marian. But that really doesn't make it any better.

They really shouldn't have brought Marian back in the first place.

[YaddaYadda]

It wasn't so bad that Robin and Regina had crypt sex, it wasn't really Marian. But that really doesn't make it any better. They really shouldn't have brought Marian back in the first place.

 

So they have Robin have sex with someone he thinks is his wife and who was likely actively trying to get pregnant? They made it worst. 

 

That baby better not be ordinary.

[KingOfHearts]

 

I think it was a mistake bringing Marian back at all.

I agree. Between S3 and S4, we all dreaded what would come of that twist. There was no silver lining or possibility of a good story from it. We didn't expect it to be Zelena getting pregnant, and that by far is worse than any other scenario we concocted. If A&E really wanted to throw a wrench in the gears for Outlaw Queen, maybe Robin could have just found out about the true circumstances surrounding Marian's death. Perhaps for some reason he didn't know Regina's reign of terror all that well because he lived in another kingdom. Maybe he just assumed the rumors were tall tales and meeting Regina got him thinking they were exaggerating. But nope - we can assume Robin knew the details and was unswayed. Zarian birthed (no pun intended) a myriad of inconsistencies like that.

Edited September 20, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

That would have been the natural story to tell.  It would have provided a lot more emotionally rewarding scenes for the actors who play Regina and Robin.  I don't get why the writers wanted to go the tacky "It's so wrong but it feels so right" route.  They could still have done their "surprise" reveal with Zelena.  Their decision is simply unfathomable.  

[kili]

I think A&E's biggest mistake was not telling Christie the plot!twist they had planned. Or at least I don't think Christie knew beforehand.

 

I'm completely convinced that A&E didn't know that plot!twist either when they wrote & filmed those snow monster scenes.  None of Marian's pre-Frozen scenes (prior her to being frozen) make any sense if she was Zelena.

 

Since they fell in love with their twist, why didn't they make Zelena hitch-hike back with the portal (the magic that re-created the portal re-created her since she was intrinsically part of the portal) - she bided her time (the Frozen arc lasted only a few days) and killed Marian right after she had the chat with Regina about how she didn't want somebody who didn't want her. With her time to observe, she would have a reason to know who Marian is and why it would be worth her time (in her demented view) to impersonate her and how to do it successfully.

 

You've still got the problem with crypt sex, but making Marian Zelena doesn't change that Regina and Robin still thought it was her so it is still icky.

Edited September 21, 2015 by kili

[KingOfHearts]

 

That would have been the natural story to tell.  It would have provided a lot more emotionally rewarding scenes for the actors who play Regina and Robin.  I don't get why the writers wanted to go the tacky "It's so wrong but it feels so right" route.  They could still have done their "surprise" reveal with Zelena.  Their decision is simply unfathomable.

It would have done more wonders for Regina's redemption arc too. She'd be forced to confront her past. Deciding against killing her boyfriend's wife doesn't quite have the same effect...

 

'm completely convinced that A&E didn't know that plot!twist either when they wrote & filmed those snow monster scenes.  None of Marian's pre-Frozen scenes make any sense if she was Zelena.

The Zarian theories came out even before S4 premiered. It wasn't impossible to come up with it at the time. However, after the writers did absolutely nothing with it for 4A, it was clear they weren't going that direction... or so we thought.

Edited September 20, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I'm completely convinced that A&E didn't know that plot!twist either when they wrote & filmed those snow monster scenes.  None of Marian's pre-Frozen scenes make any sense if she was Zelena.

The pre-Frozen scenes aren't the issue, since most of them aren't Zelena. It looks like Zelena killed Marian while she was unconscious -- after Emma knocked her out and while Hook and Emma were off to check on Snow and Charming at the troll bridge. So it was only Zarian in the scenes after they returned to Storybrooke. The problem is that none of Marian's scenes during the Frozen arc make any sense if she's Zelena. All of it is totally contrary to everything we've learned about Zelena's personality, and Marian's behavior in most of those scenes doesn't make sense if she's an impostor. There's no setup whatsoever to the big twist, no tiny breadcrumbs that we might not have noticed then but that become evident retrospectively if you go back and watch these episodes after knowing the twist. Really, knowing the twist just makes it all even more unbelievable during a rewatch because you notice stuff like Marian lying there helplessly as the snow monster comes to kill her, even though everyone else around her is unconscious, or Marian earnestly telling Regina with a perfectly straight face that she's not a monster when no one else is watching, or Marian not noticing that she's being put under a freezing curse that's going to keep her from getting in between Robin and Regina.

 

As for Zelena's Plot Stupidity in 3B, she could still have accomplished making herself the center of attention (one character trait that doesn't fit with the way Marian acted in 4A) without giving away her entire evil scheme. She could have popped by to taunt Regina with how much better she looked in Regina's clothes, showed off how much better she was at magic, and generally made a pain of herself, all while Regina vowed to destroy her, but without her creeping all over Snow about her baby and making it sound like she was going to take the baby for some nefarious purpose, Snow and Charming probably would have just rolled their eyes at her antics and said something like "I'm so glad I was an only child/I'm so glad I never knew my brother." They certainly wouldn't have sacrificed his heart to send them all to another world if they hadn't thought there was a threat to their baby.

 

With the Pan arc, there's just enough leeway to suggest that any easier ways he tried might not have been successful. He and the Lost Boys did try to attack the Nevengers with Dreamshade-tainted weapons, but all of them but David successfully defended themselves and Hook knew the antidote to Dreamshade. There were two powerful magic users in the group. Hook knew the way the island worked. The island's magic was fading. Plus, regardless of how stupid he might have been, to equal Zelena's stupidity, Pan would have had to go to Storybrooke eight months before he kidnapped Henry and announce that he would be kidnapping Henry to take his heart as a sacrifice in eight months. And then went about doing everything stupid along the way rather than cutting to the chase.

[kili]

The pre-Frozen scenes aren't the issue, since most of them aren't Zelena. It looks like Zelena killed Marian while she was unconscious

 

 

Sorry, I meant prior to Marian being frozen - I'll clarify.

 

The problem is that none of Marian's scenes during the Frozen arc make any sense if she's Zelena. All of it is totally contrary to everything we've learned about Zelena's personality, and Marian's behavior in most of those scenes doesn't make sense if she's an impostor

Totally agree. There is no build up for the twist at all. It would have has as much foreshadowing if it were Zoso or Prince James who were magically now not dead and wanting to return to the future.

 

Really, knowing the twist just makes it all even more unbelievable during a rewatch

And that's the opposite of what it should be. When you watch back after a twist reveal, you should be able to see the clues...not think the twist is even less likely. 

 

Either A&E are complete hacks or they did not  have this planned at all. Since they have pulled off some twists in the past, I'm going with the "not planned at all"

Edited September 21, 2015 by kili

[Shanna Marie]

After getting into season 4, I'm glad I got the regular DVDs instead of springing for the Blu Ray set, but I am glad I got the season. Basically 4A is a case study in how when this show is good, it's terrific, and when it's bad, it's horrific. Almost all the stuff with Elsa, Ingrid, and Emma is wonderful and worth watching. The casting was wonderful, and the actors work well together. On the other hand, Anna's grand tour through the Enchanted Forest is annoying and has to be fast-forwarded through, as does just about any scene with Regina feeling sorry for herself (all she does in this arc) or Robin looking constipated about his "code" (his face looks really funny while fast-forwarding because there's this one expression he uses when looking at Regina). Then there are some things that are sometimes good, sometimes bad or that are ruined upon rewatch by subsequent developments.

 

I like most of the stuff with Emma and Hook, but the lack of payoff hurts it now. Her tearful confession that she's afraid to get close to him because she's lost so many people and can't bear to lose him is undermined by the fact that she watched him almost die later in this arc while she was helpless to do anything about it, and she had zero reaction. She didn't pull away from him, she didn't seem overly concerned, just nothing at all. The date episode was cute on first run, but it's undermined by the fact that most of the date really ended up being about Will, whose story came to nothing and who is now being written off the show, and the evil hand plot, which also came to nothing and which makes even less sense now. In 4B they had a whole episode about Hook being at his worst, being the selfish pirate he used to be, and guess what, he had the hook, not the hand then. And there was a scene in which he talked about getting back to the good man he used to be -- which would have been when he had the hand, since it was the revenge quest that sent him over the edge and that's when he got the hook. So how on earth would Hook believe that the hand would make him evil again? I kind of feel like that entire episode was done in response to fan questions about Rumple having the hand in a jar, so now they can say that Hook decided for himself that he didn't want two hands. Except I think a lot of the fan questions were about how Belle could believe Rumple was so good when he was keeping Hook's hand in a jar. And does a decision made under a deception count as him having decided he doesn't ever want his hand back? Yes, I fast-forwarded through scenes involving Hook because the stupid burned too badly.

 

Sometimes the writing makes me wonder if the writers actually watch the show.

 

There's just so much wasted potential during this arc, so many things that could have been fun if they'd bothered exploring them. Like Hook and Elsa barely interacted after the third episode or so, and they were a lot of fun together because they had that outsiders thing going on and could comment about Storybrooke and modern life.

[daxx]

I really believe Rumple cursed Hook's hand on rewatch. He was ooc during the date and was dismissive of Emma's gut instinct about the Snow Queen, so much ooc. He even said what does that prove when she mentioned the puddle under her car. He used the left hand vey instinctively when he was violent, he wouldn't normally, he's right handed and hasn't had a left hand to use in centuries.

[YaddaYadda]

I really believe Rumple cursed Hook's hand on rewatch.

 

Things we will never find out anything about, like Emma being cut by one of those tiny icicles Ingrid sent her way, then losing all control over her magic.

[Curio]

Yeah, I definitely think Rumple was just screwing with Hook and had complete control over what the left hand did. He just used reverse psychology to make Hook feel like it was actually his old personality when Rumple was the puppet master all along. There's that scene where Hook attacks Rumple with his left hand in the car and says that wasn't him. I feel like Colin played that line completely genuine, so I tend to believe it. Rumple allowing Hook to attack him just adds to the illusion that Rumple wasn't controlling the hand, when in fact he was.

 

It just makes sense for Rumple to be the one controlling it because no matter what, Hook would have been forced to crawl back to Rumple and "owe" him one for removing the hand. Even if Hook went to him and was like, "I know you messed with this hand, now take it off," Rumple still would have had the upper hand (pun not intended) and forced Hook to be his bitch for the rest of 4A. It's just that Rumple enjoyed seeing Hook freak out over something that wasn't actually his fault even more because Rumple loves playing mind games like that. (Just like his father, too...)

Edited September 21, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

Yeah, I definitely think Rumple was just screwing with Hook and had complete control over what the left hand did. He just used reverse psychology to make Hook feel like it was actually his old personality when Rumple was the puppet master all along.

That's my headcanon, though even in that case, it would have been nice if when Rumple warned him about the hand making him into the selfish pirate he used to be, Hook had said something about how the hook came with being a selfish pirate, but he had the hand before he even became a pirate and when he was last capable of love. He could still have freaked out and worried that Rumple was right when the hand started doing evil things, but it would have shown that at least the writers remembered their own story.

 

As in the case of much of season 4, they raised all kinds of questions and issues that would have made for interesting stories, and completely dropped them because they only wanted them as plot devices for one episode or to get one scene, or to raise and dismiss one question, not really for a true story purpose. The whole hand thing was to set up the Rumple blackmail, but then the blackmail never came to anything because when Hook decided to risk it and tell Emma what he knew anyway, she never got the warning and if she learned what he did under the blackmail #ItHappenedOffscreen. So you could remove that whole story without altering the plot one bit.

 

And is anyone else a little bothered by the fairytale characters without the Storybrooke download being so comfortable with the concept of a "date"? That's a rather modern concept. You'd think Elsa and Hook would have to have had it defined for them, but they were casually tossing the term about. Hook would have been more likely to use the term "courting," and I'm not sure he'd be familiar with the concept of inviting someone out to a restaurant. That's not what someone from his world/time would have done in courting. Just imagine the fun we missed by not getting to see him being coached in what Emma would expect in a date by someone who did have the Storybrooke download. And then Elsa talked about Kristoff "dating" Anna, but again, would they have gone on what we think of as "dates" or used that term? Every time one of them said "date" it took me out of the story.

[Curio]

And is anyone else a little bothered by the fairytale characters without the Storybrooke download being so comfortable with the concept of a "date"? That's a rather modern concept. You'd think Elsa and Hook would have to have had it defined for them, but they were casually tossing the term about. Hook would have been more likely to use the term "courting," and I'm not sure he'd be familiar with the concept of inviting someone out to a restaurant.

 

I'm amazed how little screen time the date plot took up. It could have easily taken up the entire A-Plot if they focused on these #ItHappenedOffscreen scenes:

 

• A scene where Killian struggles to do something with his hook around Emma and he feels embarrassed by it. Without the context of that #ItHappenedOffscreen scene, the onscreen part where he goes and asks Rumple for his hand back comes out of the blue because we've always been shown a Hook who's very confident with his appendage. I can't think of many times where we've seen him self-conscious about it before, so this new change in attitude should have been explored because it introduced us to a new fear for his character. 
• A scene where Hook is researching how to properly court in the modern world. This is where he reads up on the terminology of dating (like calling it 'dating' and not 'courting'), getting a single rose, going to a fancy restaurant, and offering to buy the first round of drinks. Hilarity ensues when Hook asks all of the dwarves for dating advice and they all give totally different answers.
• A scene where Hook walks by a modern clothing shop and the mental lightbulb goes off that maybe he should start adapting to Storybrooke life permanently.
• A scene with Emma and Snow bonding because this is Emma's first "real" date, and they could have gone through Snow's wardrobe and Snow could have insisted for Emma to wear a more modern dress, but Emma surprises her and picks the very Mary Margaret-esque pink dress.
• A scene where Emma awkwardly explains to Elsa and Snow what she expected this date to be like, and we actually could have heard some of Emma's point of view on why she asked Hook out in the first place. Continuity shout out to Hook trading his ship to her and how she actually feels about that. Snow could have talked about what courting rituals were like in the Enchanted Forest and Emma could sigh in relief that she dodged that bullet.
• A scene where Emma and Killian actually have a normal freaking conversation at the dinner table that doesn't involve monsters of the week.
• A scene where they are walking back from their date and Hook offers his jacket to Emma.

 

But these scenes are all way too "kitchen sinky" for our writers.

Edited September 22, 2015 by Curio

[Shanna Marie]

I'm going to take the date discussion to the relationships thread because it's no longer really about looking at the big picture of the story arcs, though it is symptomatic of some of the problems with the 4A character arcs.

[KAOS Agent]

I was thinking this morning that one of the reasons to be more excited and interested in Season 5 is that at least the main story, that of Dark Swan, is not a mission where the outcome is already determined (Emma could "die" or be saved or remain the Dark One or any number of possibilities). This is a very refreshing change from the past few half seasons where the outcome was apparent from the very start. The heroes were going to fail to stop the big thing. We knew they'd fail because obviously the writers wanted time travel to happen, they wanted the Shattered Sight thing to happen, they wanted to write AU shenanigans. When you know that all plot points and actions are going to fail from the outset, they really aren't all that interesting. This leaves us with character moments and interaction and fairybacks/background stuff being the thing that carries the show. If you hate Zelena and her brand of crazy, 3B isn't going to be your bag. If Frozen is dead boring to you, 4A must have really sucked. If you like things to make sense and are a fan of coherency, 4B was not going to work for you. Dark Emma, on the other hand, opens up a world of interesting things that can happen in the here and now and all of the mains are affected. Multiple plans can be worked. Some can fail, some may see success. It makes things much more watchable when a specific outcome is not already determined from the outset. 

 

I'm also a fan of consequences. The past few main arcs of the show have had few long term consequences for the main characters. Nothing came of the deaths in the AU, no one seemed to even have an epiphany after walking a mile in someone else's shoes. It just was there and now it's over. The Shattered Sight spell was just stupid slap stick that everyone laughed about. The time travel stuff was fun, but other than Marian/Zelena (which is the dumbest thing ever in my opinion) nothing big came of that either. Dark Swan has consequences no matter how it turns out. I may end up hating where they take the Dark Swan stuff, but at least I don't feel like I have for the past few seasons where I feel like I'm just watching 8-10 episodes of pointlessness to get to the big thing that will ultimately fizzle into nothing. The journey to get to the end is much more enjoyable when I can theorize & speculate about where it's going.

[Shanna Marie]

I fizzled out on my season 4 rewatch because I ran out of time, but I did find I'd gone from fast forwarding over the scenes I didn't like to fast forwarding to get to the scenes I did like. I liked most of the Arendelle stuff, and I like show Elsa a lot more than I like movie Elsa. But boy, the Arendelle guards and military are all a bunch of fickle traitors. It was rather ridiculous for Elsa to have to be sneaking around her own palace and hiding from her own guards because they're working for Ingrid when she's the queen, or for the whole navy to apparently have just gone along with Hans. (I have a mental fanfic currently running in which Elsa gets Hook to come clean house and revamp her navy for her.). I liked the Hook and Rumple plot at the time, but it's hard to watch now because it's even more obvious in marathoning that it's the same scene over and over again, even with the exact same lines, and it's also annoying knowing how that's going to come out, with no real fallout. Even Belle's moment of awesome at the town line is less satisfying when you know that she'll end up still standing by him and being in love with him, even after he deceives her even more. She just doesn't know how to quit him, I guess, which makes it look even more like an unhealthy abusive relationship.

 

I have zero enthusiasm for trying to rewatch 4B.

[Mathius]

The Rumple plotline was just fine, and rightfully praised as it was airing, up until 4x08. Once he failed to hat Emma and ripped out Hook's heart, that's when the repetitiveness came in, with all the "once the stars align with the stars in the hat I will CLEAVE myself from the degree!" and "Enjoy this day, for it will be your last", and "I will enjoy this very much". It was so painfully obvious that Rumple's ego was setting him up for a fall, so his loss was predictable; and when something like that is predictable, then you compensate with emotional drama and pay-off...which they didn't. At all. Even Robert Carlyle's acting took a downturn at that point. For most of 4A, he looks to be enjoying himself. For most of 4B, he's on autopilot mode.

Edited September 27, 2015 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

It was so painfully obvious that Rumple's ego was setting him up for a fall, so his loss was predictable; and when something like that is predictable, then you compensate with emotional drama and pay-off...which they didn't.

Yeah, the fact that Rumple was going to take a fall and Hook would live was obvious, so the only thing that was going to make that interesting was how he took a fall and then seeing the emotional payoff, and they skipped all that completely. Belle's realization mostly happened offscreen and wasn't set up, and then we saw nothing of the real aftermath. They went straight from Rumple groveling at the town line to weeks later being large and in charge in New York, so we didn't even really see him take a fall. The fall lasted about thirty seconds. We never learned how he went from freaking out about going from being on the verge of having infinite power to being utterly powerless to pulling himself together and coming up with a plan. There's not much point in making him take a fall when we don't really see him at his fallen point. Yeah, there was the bathrobe at Ursula's place, but he was already doing okay before he found Ursula. How did he get from the edge of town to New York?

 

The one 4B episode I rewatched before the premiere was "Poor Unfortunate Soul," and while I think that's possibly the best episode of the season (it may not have the highs of some of the other episodes, but it doesn't really have any serious lows, so it's rather consistently watchable, start to finish), it's completely out of place in the season, mostly because it blows the premise of most of the season completely out of the water (pun somewhat intended). For one thing, there's the contrast between Regina and Hook. Everyone goes on and on all season about how Regina has "worked so hard" to no longer be a villain, and yet we haven't actually seen her working, unless they're counting whatever inner struggle to not murder people. Here we have Hook actually doing something to make up for one of his past wrongs. Regina has yet to make amends for anything. Then we have Ariel blowing up the "villains don't get happy endings" theory by pointing out that maybe that's their own fault, and once Hook sees the light about that, he's able to help both Ursula and Poseidon get their happy endings. All of them truly seem to realize where they went wrong and want to move in a different direction. That makes the rest of the season look rather pointless, if Emma can see this and encourage Hook about his potential happy ending while still going on to do stupid stuff like freeing the Author because Regina needs her happy ending. And you have to wonder about Emma being so busy chasing off after Regina's happy ending because she's a former villain who needs the rules of the universe rewritten so she can get everything she wants, without apparently ever having considered that her boyfriend is also a former villain. Did she think that didn't apply to Hook? Does she care more about what happens to Regina than what happens to Hook?

 

The rest of the season only works if you eliminate what they learned in that episode because they're all a bit silly if they keep on with Operation Mongoose after seeing villains get happy endings and realizing that villains are holding themselves back by going about it the wrong way.

[HoodlumSheep]

The only episodes I find rewatchable in 4b are "Poor Unfortunate Soul" and "Sympathy for the De Vil." I find the latter to be rather removed from the 4b story "theme" as well. It kind of spat in the face of the whole "evil isn't born, it's made."

Funny how the two best episodes (imo) of 4b were the ones that basically go against the premise of 4b.

And on a season 5 premiere note: so far I like Elsa better than I like Merida. I know it's only been one episode--and Merida isn't bad per say--it's just this feeling I have.

Edited September 28, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[KingOfHearts]

 

Funny how the two best episodes (imo) of 4b were the ones that basically go against the premise of 4b

And they're about stories that have almost nothing to do with 4B.

 

We never really saw the Queens of Darkness functioning as a unit past 4x12. We didn't see them interact with each other on any deeper level than snarking around town. I wanted to see more of why they were working together and what made them a good team. In the end it just seemed like Maleficent and Rumple were the ringleaders while Cruella and Ursula were bumbling henchwomen. They became so irrelevant that it was like two completely different arcs altogether. 

 

I wasn't expecting deep personal relationships or the Sisterhood of the Draco Leather Pants, but the show did little to compensate for how contrived the combination was. The writers basically slapped three random villainesses together and put a fancy title on it. That doesn't seem very necessary when in their centrics they appear to get more work done alone.

Edited September 28, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[abhishah]

Hi,

 

So i have been confused with the concept of OUAT for a while now, i haven't watched any of the seasons yet, but really want to watch the show, from my understanding, each season is a new fairy tale a new story, so can i start with any season like season 5 or do i have to watch the the other 4 seasons to clearly understand the plot?

 

Thanks

 

[Camera One]

It's possible to jump right in, but it would be extremely confusing.  Even though new fairy tales are introduced each season, there are multitudes of plot threads that were begun in earlier seasons.  I would start from Season 1.  The other advantage to that is you can see the characters as they were originally drawn, rather than the characters they came to be by Season 5.  

[HoodlumSheep]

I'd at least watch season 1 before considering skipping around or jumping into season 5, because you'll get a feel for most of the characters. :)

Then, depending on if you feel like watching the rest of the seasons all the way through, and who your favorite characters are, you could probably skip around a bit.

Edited September 28, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Rumsy4]

You could probably skip some episodes from each season, and just read the wikipedia summary. I do that sometimes with shows I'm trying to catch up on. :-p

[KAOS Agent]

Season 1 is hands down the best season of the show, I wouldn't skip it. Also, some of the fun of S1 is trying to figure out which fairy tale character is the Storybrooke character's counterpart. You'd miss out on that (and their "real" stories) if you jump in later.

[Rumsy4]

I would probably give a couple of S1 episodes like Dreamy a miss, but I agree that S1 is the best.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Rumsy4

[kingshearte]

No way; you gotta watch Dreamy, if for no other reason than to know if you're in the loved-it or hated-it camp. :)

[Rumsy4]

I wasn't aware that a person who loved the episode existed! ;-)

Edited September 29, 2015 by Rumsy4

[HoodlumSheep]

I like "Dreamy" too! I thought the backstory part was pretty neat. I'd watch all of season 1 for sure. I normally don't like to skip previous episodes if I'm a first-time viewer of a show and all the episodes are available. Not every person likes doing that, so whatever floats your boat.

Edited September 29, 2015 by HoodlumSheep

[Free]

Season 1 is hands down the best season of the show, I wouldn't skip it. Also, some of the fun of S1 is trying to figure out which fairy tale character is the Storybrooke character's counterpart. You'd miss out on that (and their "real" stories) if you jump in later.

 

I missed that, it was so fun figuring out which character is which and they pretty much stopped that during S2.

[Mathius]

Honestly, the negative reaction to "Dreamy" may very well have come back to bite us all. It was the definition of a breather episode with characters just living life, and the bad rep it got may have influenced A&E to avoid such episodes like the plague afterward and stick to a "plot!plot!plot!" style of writing.

[coops]

Honestly, the negative reaction to "Dreamy" may very well have come back to bite us all. It was the definition of a breather episode with characters just living life, and the bad rep it got may have influenced A&E to avoid such episodes like the plague afterward and stick to a "plot!plot!plot!" style of writing.

Yep. Also people commented on how the Storybrooke part of the show was boring such as the Katheryn/David/Mary Margaret love triangle and so it seems the writers decided it would be a good idea to introduce magic to Storybrooke which lost the show its edge if not part of the original concept i.e fairy tale characters in our world. Part of the fun of the show in season 1 was seeing what roles the fairy tale characters played and how the evil queen would scheme and plot in a world without magic (she uses a shady newspaper reporter instead of a magic mirror) sadly all this is lost for good once the curse is broken.

[Free]

Honestly, the negative reaction to "Dreamy" may very well have come back to bite us all. It was the definition of a breather episode with characters just living life, and the bad rep it got may have influenced A&E to avoid such episodes like the plague afterward and stick to a "plot!plot!plot!" style of writing.

 

Definitely, I missed the more character moments we had in S1.

 

Yep. Also people commented on how the Storybrooke part of the show was boring such as the Katheryn/David/Mary Margaret love triangle and so it seems the writers decided it would be a good idea to introduce magic to Storybrooke which lost the show its edge if not part of the original concept i.e fairy tale characters in our world. Part of the fun of the show in season 1 was seeing what roles the fairy tale characters played and how the evil queen would scheme and plot in a world without magic (she uses a shady newspaper reporter instead of a magic mirror) sadly all this is lost for good once the curse is broken.

 

The love triangle was bad but not because it was in Storybrooke, it was just a weak aspect of the storyline.

 

I loved the duality aspect between the characters in Storybrooke and FTL and how each one carried from 1 side to another and vice versa.

[Camera One]

The love triangle was bad but not because it was in Storybrooke, it was just a weak aspect of the storyline.

 

Yes, the writers never see the reason why something didn't work was because of how they set it up (or more often, how they didn't set it up), so their solutions rarely ever addresses the underlying problem.  Thereby leading to A&E concluding the biggest mistake in Season 2 was giving Tamara a taser, and coming up with the "solution" of killing off Tamara, Greg and eventually Neal, while never addressing where they went wrong in their conception of Neal's backstory.  

Edited September 29, 2015 by Camera One

[Writing Wrongs]

 

 

Hi,

So i have been confused with the concept of OUAT for a while now, i haven't watched any of the seasons yet, but really want to watch the show, from my understanding, each season is a new fairy tale a new story, so can i start with any season like season 5 or do i have to watch the the other 4 seasons to clearly understand the plot?

Thanks

 

Just consider Once to be the fairy tale version of Lost. It would be really hard to just jump in without having watched from the beginning. Everything is connected and flashbacked and stuff.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Writing Wrongs

[Shanna Marie]

If you just want to be able to follow the story and know what's going on without worrying about all the nuances (and let's face it, the writers often don't worry about those previously established nuances), you might be able to get by with the first few episodes and last few episodes of season one.

 

Unfortunately, understanding the current character and plot situations requires viewing some of the weakest arcs. The Robin/Regina/Zelena situation that's pretty key to the current stuff is from the weak 3B, and it was the weak to the point of lame 4B that led into the main current plot. The stronger plot arcs seem to have next to no long-term consequences that affect the current story, so the most skippable episodes may be the most enjoyable, while the most painful episodes are most critical to understanding the current story.

 

Which may not be a good sign for the current story.

 

I guess you might need some of season 2 to get how Regina has gone from villain to hero, but that doesn't actually make it make more sense. With Hook, you probably won't be too confused if you just take it as a given that this version of Captain Hook isn't a villain and is in love with Emma. You'd get more out of his story if you saw it all, but I don't think you'd be too lost.

[Free]

Yes, the writers never see the reason why something didn't work was because of how they set it up (or more often, how they didn't set it up), so their solutions rarely ever addresses the underlying problem.  Thereby leading to A&E concluding the biggest mistake in Season 2 was giving Tamara a taser, and coming up with the "solution" of killing off Tamara, Greg and eventually Neal, while never addressing where they went wrong in their conception of Neal's backstory.

 

Exactly and unfortunately things get swept under the rug in their attempts at trying to fix it or brushed aside completely.

[KingOfHearts]

We've talked a lot about the show's lack of payoff and how the execution is always dead on arrival.

 

With that mind I was watching 1x22. (My favorite episode of the entire series.) Unlike most of the finales, it directly tied up most of the loose ends throughout the season and used them to introduce the cliffhanger. It covered Graham, August, Maleficent, Snow/David/Kathryn, the Snowing saga, Rumpbelle, Regina's fears, and Jefferson all in addition to the curse/magic/TLK stuff. Some of those storylines hadn't been touched on for several episodes. Even though it was going through a lot of PLOT PLOT PLOT, it never felt over-rushed or that we were missing out on character moments. They were in there and they directly drove the events.

 

Now compare that with 4x11, which had much less story to conclude. It had the same amount of time given and yet did so little with it. Half of the episode was spent setting up 4B, while 1x22 only used the last few minutes to introduce new territory. It was rushing hard to push the Frozen peeps out of the picture and you could tell it was using any hackneyed contrivance it could find to do so. It cuts from Rumpbelle drama to Frozen to the Queens of Darkness without any transitioning. Contrarily, the S1 finale uses the flashbacks to illustrate the present day and it flows, paralleling nicely. It wasn't a completely different story with vague connections not even the audience could decipher. (Like Belle's realization Rumple was tricking her because he still had the gauntlet.)

 

While 2B finale's does a similar thing with exposing what's next through flashbacks, it's not so far off that it takes us out of the present day action. They involved Hook and Bae, explaining their relationship and tying in Henry's kidnapping with Bae's. It was stuff we actually want to see, as opposed to Belle's random hostage situation. In the present, while 2B plots were being wrapped up, it was still all heading for S3. In fact, 2B fuels many of the characters' reasons for going to Neverland. Snow wants to absolve her guilt for killing Cora, Hook and Rumple want to honor Bae, and Regina is desperate to have Henry. It was less lazy than saying, "We'll we're an ensemble cast, so I guess we all have to go together."

 

After S1, 3x11 worked the best as a finale. It used flashbacks to support what was going on and was full of character moments. The PLOT PLOT PLOT was there but it didn't drag everything else down. There was payoff and it was beautiful. Notice we didn't a big Zelena reveal or much exposition at all. It followed a similar formula to 1x22 where the last scene effectively gave us the snippet of what was to come. That was done in such a way that there was a lot of mystery surrounding future but we were given just enough taste to speculate wildly. That's how a cliffhanger should work.

 

I'm not really talking about the 3B or 4B finales here because they're standalone TV movies having little to do with what precedes them. What we do get in Storybrooke from each is fine, but not fully setup climaxes.

Edited October 4, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[OnceUponAJen]

In my opinion, ever since the Captain Swan "movie" set of episodes, the timing has been horribly off. There are too many characters, the story drags in the middle of each half season (with storylines that never go anywhere), while rushing through the finales.

I really want them to slow down and show believable character reactions and interactions, focusing on the main characters rather than new characters or villians.

Edited October 4, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Curio]

I think the first two episodes of Season 5 have actually done an admirable job of focusing more on the core characters than on the guest stars. Yes, the guest stars are there, but they haven't been stealing the show like they did in Season 4. Of course, this could quickly change back to the status quo, but I'm enjoying the change in pace so far. The only major gripe I have about Season 5 so far is that we know little to nothing about what the Charmings think about Emma's situation. Heck, we've spent more time with them helping pick out a wardrobe for Regina than on their emotional reactions to Emma going dark. That's just pathetic.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Curio

[Camera One]

Well, the ironic thing is that at least we got more Charming family scenes in 5x2 than we have gotten in a very long time.  We can't expect very much on this front at all.  Having Snow looking sad and having some Emma/Henry, Henry/Charming and Snow/Emma scenes is already better than nothing.  When we finally get some Charmings/Emma stuff, I can almost guarantee the writers will only hurt the relationship further in the name of creating angst.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm surprised we got no scenes in 5x02 with Snowing and Emma, especially in the aftermath of what happened at Granny's. 

[Camera One]

I am assuming they are saving it for a Snowing episode.  These writers like to segregate characters rather than think about what would be natural.  Their main priority is to have Hook (and Regina) interact with her, so clearly, the writers have Snowing lower on the priority list.

[Camera One]

Video of the NYCC OUAT Panel. Some spoilers, I guess.

 

Can we talk about how much of a troll Eddy is? Sometimes it's "she did it to save Regina", this time he says "She takes the dagger to save everyone.". THE MOST TROLLISH.

 

 

He is, but it's now in the dialogue in the show that she saved everyone, as opposed to the whole oh, it's ambiguous, which it wasn't if you watch the whole show. What's always bugged me with Eddy was that he was one of 2 people who wrote that finale. 

 

It still makes no sense to me, especially since A&E had Snow accuse Regina in 5x1 that Emma sacrificed herself for Regina.  But then in 5x3, Snow again is given a similar line but she now says that Emma did it to save everyone.  There is still an inconsistency about it.  Unless you fanwank that in the heat of the moment in the premiere, Snow blamed Regina and then she saw the bigger picture by the third episode. Or, I guess I could imagine that Snow and Emma talked en route to Camelot and Emma clarified she did it to save everyone, which would be my preferred off-screen moment fanwank,

Edited October 15, 2015 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

This is from the new Hot Seat interview. But there are spoilers in the article. So beware before you click!

 

Will we see Belle (Emilie de Ravin) confront Regina over taking her heart?

KITSIS: She is unaware that it happened.
HOROWITZ: In the immediate future, no, but never say never.
KITSIS: Someday, yeah.
HOROWITZ: She certainly wouldn’t be happy about it.

 

How convenient for Regina! Add this to list of bad/horrible things Regina has done that no one will ever know. 

Edited October 16, 2015 by Rumsy4

[YaddaYadda]

This makes no sense to me though. Regina went to Belle to ask her for something. I thought that's what it was. And it's when she told her to forget everything that she did basically forget everything.

[Delphi]

Then where the hell did she think Rumple got it from? She assumed he was just walking around Storybrooke with her heart for years?

[october]

When Will returned Belle's heart he told her that it was Regina that took it and Rumple told her why. So uh.. wtf?

Edited October 16, 2015 by october