A Thread for All Seasons: OUaT Across All Realms

[Camera One]

I was wondering... what would Rumple do if Emma just decided to never come back to Storybrooke and stay in NYC (and Henry will go live with her part-time)?  Does his idiotic plan just fall apart?  

Edited May 1, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

That's a great point. Why doesn't everyone just up and leave Storybrooke for the real world? Rumple doesn't have magic outside of Storybrooke, so he couldn't go through with whatever plan he has for Emma. I don't get why these characters writers are so attached to Storybrooke and having it be their permanent home.

[YaddaYadda]

I don't get why these characters writers are so attached to Storybrooke and having it be their permanent home.

 

Because it's home.  It's funny because I decided to watch the promo for the finale of last year and they were like we went to Enchanted Forest and Oz and New York City and then back home and they showed Storybrooke.

 

I think they justified Emma's mind set last episode when she told Mal that she was not going to run from Gold.  Pretty much ends the conversation right there.  

[Rumsy4]

Gold probably would find a way to blackmail or threaten Emma back to Storybrooke. Unless she changed her identity and moved to a different country. That may not be a bad idea...

[KingOfHearts]

 

I don't get why these characters writers are so attached to Storybrooke and having it be their permanent home.

In order for the characters to call it home, several plot holes have to be created. Not a single citizen misses their homeland? Emma thought it was safer for her son to live in magic hoo-ha world and with her neglectful parents? What happens if the curse gets undone or someone casts a new curse? Didn't Regina say Storybrooke doesn't belong in LWM?

 

 

Gold probably would find a way to blackmail or threaten Emma back to Storybrooke. Unless she changed her identity and moved to a different country. That may not be a bad idea...

He could have hired Cruella and Ursula, perhaps.

Edited May 1, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Arnella]

A reason for hope!  I saw this in an article:

So is that to mean we won't be getting any new characters for this upcoming arc?

Kitsis: Next year we're not introducing any new characters, we're just changing the condition of the town.

 

[Mathius]

Yeah, still don't trust them. Writers camp where they actually plan the next season happens at the end of May and into early June, I'm sure ideas for new characters that they won't be able to resist will come up. And come on, a whole 22-episode season without ANY new characters whatsoever? Not likely, especially once they reach the B half.

EDIT: The source has now been edited to say "in the finale" rather than "next year", so I guess it was a typo. There will be new characters next season after all.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

Back in the fall, I posted something either to this thread or to the writers thread about active vs. reactive plots, and my one hope about Operation Mongoose was that it was an active plot -- they were trying to find or achieve something rather than trying to stop something. Except it hasn't really played out that way.

 

When you compare arcs, it really does seem like this is what it comes down to. If you look at Henry as the protagonist of season one (since he was the one of the good guys in the know), then he had an active goal -- get Emma to believe in who she was and break the curse. Emma was often reacting to Regina, but Henry had a plan and a goal, and that was what drove the action. The things he got Emma to do forced Regina to react, and then Emma reacted to Regina's reactions, but it was pretty tight.

 

2A also had an active goal for the good guys on the Team Princess side of the plot -- get home. They had to react to what Cora and Hook threw at them, but even without Cora and Hook, there would have been a story about finding a way to get back to Storybrooke. Cora and Hook merely raised the stakes and added complications. It was a little messier on the Storybrooke side, as there was no clear-cut protagonist or goal. I guess maybe the goal on their end was to do what they could to help Emma and Snow get home without bringing Cora with them, but then there was also Regina trying to be good and David trying to be a leader.

 

2B was when it got really messy, with the good guys not having any particular thing driving their actions. They were just playing Whack-a-Mole -- react to Hook, react to Cora, react to Greg and Tamara, react to Regina, react to the failsafe. There wasn't any goal at all, really, other than surviving and protecting the town, but in doing that they were only reacting as things arose rather than creating their own plan.

 

3A, we're back to a goal so simple and concrete they were able to put it in a hashtag: Save Henry. They had to react to what Pan threw at them along the way, but even without that, there was still the goal of finding Henry and finding a way to get home. Pan's activities (beyond kidnapping Henry in the first place) just made it more interesting.

 

3B, we're back to Whack-a-Mole. There was just the one villain, but all they did was react to what she threw at them. She was the one with a plan, crazy as it was. They were left just wandering around and dealing with things as she carried out her plan.

 

4A seemed like it would have a fairly straightforward goal of finding Anna, but since she wasn't actually in Storybrooke, there wasn't much they could do about it, so that goal amounted to reading some books and then stumbling across the key accidentally. Otherwise, it was another game of Whack-a-Mole, reacting to what Ingrid did, reacting to what Rumple did. They didn't come up with any kind of "this is how we'll deal with Ingrid" plan. All they did was freak out when they learned what she'd done. And they didn't even know what Rumple was up to until the very end.

 

4B also seemed like it would have an active goal of finding the Author to get Regina's happy ending. But it very quickly turned into Whack-a-Mole, with the good guys reacting to Cruella and Ursula's actions, reacting to Mal's arrival, reacting to Rumple. It's interesting that probably the best episode so far of the arc was the one that had a proactive goal for the heroes -- Hook was going to learn Rumple's scheme by restoring Ursula's happy ending, and meanwhile the others were going to find August. It was the bad guys who were reacting to them, for a change. Otherwise, everything they've done has been reacting to the villains. Even the idea to have Regina go undercover was reacting to the fear of Mal's presence, not an actual plan for stopping the bad guys, since they weren't even sure what the bad guys were really up to until Hook came up with his plan. Meanwhile, they keep undermining the "find the Author" plan by outright telling us that he's not supposed to be changing things, then having Ursula getting her happy ending without him (with the mention from Ariel that the reason villains don't get happy endings is that they go about it the wrong way -- like, oh, maybe insisting on having an Author rewrite it?), then finding the Author midway through but then needing something else to get what they want, and then they're also sidetracked on the babynapping plot and the Charming family feud, Rumple's charcoal heart and the Zelena baby drama. We're well beyond Whack-a-Mole here.

[Mathius]

It was a little messier on the Storybrooke side, as there was no clear-cut protagonist or goal. I guess maybe the goal on their end was to do what they could to help Emma and Snow get home without bringing Cora with them, but then there was also Regina trying to be good and David trying to be a leader.

This is why we should've had more of an arc on that side of things too, with Albert Spencer as the Big Bad. But no, we got "Child of the Moon" instead. Sigh.

3A, we're back to a goal so simple and concrete they were able to put it in a hashtag: Save Henry. They had to react to what Pan threw at them along the way, but even without that, there was still the goal of finding Henry and finding a way to get home. Pan's activities (beyond kidnapping Henry in the first place) just made it more interesting.

Thank you. I've seen some complaints in the past that 3A was just wandering in circles or the heroes running around like chickens as usual, and I have to wonder what half-season those people were watching. Pan didn't direct all of their actions, he responded to their's a few time, and each episode had them working on getting a piece of a larger "rescue and escape" plan into place (which got redundant especially since a lot of those pieces were McGuffins they had to gather, but it was the character development and interaction that happened in gathering them that counted.). It was a very well-balanced arc when it came to action/reaction.

There was just the one villain, but all they did was react to what she threw at them. She was the one with a plan, crazy as it was.

Ironically, the ONLY time the heroes made an active plan against Zelena instead of just reacting to her latest attack was in "The Jolly Roger" when it was decided Emma should work on strengthening her magic. And how did THAT end up again?

Edited May 2, 2015 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

While I think it could have been done better, there was a lot that worked about the Pan arc. There was the fact that the heroes were active rather than just reactive, so there would have still been a story (just perhaps a less interesting one) if after kidnapping Henry, Pan had just sat around by his campfire, making s'mores. The Nevengers still would have been going through the steps of finding where Henry was being held, finding a way to disarm Pan, finding a way to get home once they got Henry, and trying to communicate with Henry so he wouldn't give up. Then there was also the fact that Pan was smart. He didn't suffer from Idiot Plotting. His interactions with the heroes weren't what brought about his own downfall. Just about everything he did made matters worse for them. The one exception might be him telling Hook about Neal, since it was Neal's knowledge that allowed them to leave, but as I recall, that was what bought Pan the time to finally turn Henry with his Wendy ruse. If Hook hadn't told about Neal or if they'd decided to rescue Neal later, they might have reached Henry before he was so willing to rip out his own heart to "save" Neverland and Wendy. It was a calculated risk on Pan's part -- If Hook had actually grown and wasn't willing to let his rival die, it bought Pan time, but if he was selfish and kept quiet, then they wouldn't get off the island and Pan might have another chance. They ultimately defeated Pan by making huge sacrifices, not because Pan screwed up.

 

Compare that to Zelena. If she hadn't been mwa-ha-haing all over the place, her plan would have succeeded. If she'd kept quiet and just gone about gathering her spell ingredients while waiting for the baby to be born, she could have swooped in and grabbed the kid at birth and done the spell before anyone even had a clue anything was happening. There was absolutely no need other than her ego (and because it would have been a boring story if the heroes were entirely oblivious to the fact that there even was a villain at work) for her to have made herself known to the heroes. And then she did it again with the curse. She got a clean slate, so she could have easily learned from her previous mistakes, stayed in stealth mode, gathered her ingredients, and then done the spell before they knew what was going on. I guess the winged monkeys were to keep the Charmings from finding Emma, but otherwise, why did it matter if anyone left town? Was anyone really trying to leave town? All the flying monkeys did was clue them in that there was a villain and who she was. She might even have been able to get to Regina's heart if Regina didn't know to be on her guard.

 

And this is why I can't buy the Zarian twist. Zelena twice ruined her own scheme because she couldn't resist taunting Regina and flaunting what she was up to. Would she really have been able to keep up the charade of being Marian for more than thirty seconds without starting to cackle, taunt Regina, and gloat?

 

2A is kind of mixed. Team Princess had a goal regardless of whether Hook and Cora showed up. There really wasn't any reason for Cora to have revealed her presence to Team Princess, and she might have done better if they hadn't known of the potential threat and if she'd just let Hook interact with them to get the compass. Hook was trying to switch sides (or was at least open to the option, in case they were the side that found a way to Storybrooke first), so he had a good reason for getting involved with them, and because he was switching sides back and forth, some of what might have been Idiot Plotting on his part might have been intentional -- he didn't consider or worry about the possibility of magic ink because he didn't care if they were locked up for good, he seemed to have thrown the sword fight. I really can't think of a good reason for Cora to have interacted with Team Princess in order to carry out her plan. Did she already know about the magic wardrobe, or did she have to follow them to learn about that? It was only because they knew about her that they were able to pass the message via the dream world and warn the Storybrookers about her. I'm not sure that Team Princess won (more or less -- they got home, but Hook and Cora still made it) because they were better, smarter, or more willing to make sacrifices or because Hook was playing both sides against the middle, not really trying to stop them, and sometimes even getting in Cora's way as long as he got what he wanted.

[Camera One]

Well, we finally have confirmation.  They wrote this Author crap for an entire season, just so they could do whatever they will do next week (I don't watch previews, but I'm assuming we'll be seeing Rumple's version of Heroes and Villains).  Yes, it sounds fun but that's just an insane way of writing a show.

[Souris]

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure that A&E had this “cool” idea for their season finale concept movie of an Author rewriting everybody’s character, because A&E are bored with their actual characters, and they came up with the Author storyline solely as a way to get to their “cool” idea. The fact that the journey to get there was an annoying, boring, convoluted, contrived, pointless mess that required every character to lose 99% of their brain cells was of no consequence to them.

 

It's a TERRIBLE way to write a show.

[KingOfHearts]

And they also get Regina's happy ending out of it. Two birds, one stone!

[Mathius]

Absolutely. I'm pretty sure that A&E had this “cool” idea for their season finale concept movie of an Author rewriting everybody’s character, because A&E are bored with their actual characters, and they came up with the Author storyline solely as a way to get to their “cool” idea. The fact that the journey to get there was an annoying, boring, convoluted, contrived, pointless mess that required every character to lose 99% of their brain cells was of no consequence to them.

It's the exact same thing as 3B then, when they had the time travel finale idea and built the preceding Zelena story to reach that end.

But at least that was only a half-season, whereas this has gone on since 4x01.

Edited May 4, 2015 by Mathius

[FabulousTater]

Bringing this over from the Ratings/Scheduling Thread:

I think all of this may be why ABC is touting this finale as a reset or something that will change the whole story. Because right now, no one wants to see the current story. It's better to entice people back by promising them that they're clearing the table and starting over sort of.

Ya, that's possibly true. But I think the problem is that the people that they are trying to entice back were probably with the show since the start, and those four years taught everyone watching that this show doesn't stick with it's resets. These show writers just don't do consequences so their resets never stick.

I think the biggest show changing reset of them all (outside of the s1 finale) was "Going Home" and that ended up being totally meaningless. It could have reset everything (the characters' relationships, the characters themselves, the story locations, the entire fabric of the show) but in the very next episode everything was back to status quo. And that's something the writers do all the damn time.
 
At the end of "Heroes and Villains" we all knew Rumpel would be back, and sure enough, he was back in town in the very next episode. We all know that the writers fix any and all of the problems with Emma and her parents with a throwaway line and a hug -- becuse they do. Every damn time. Introducing any conflict between them is essentially meaningless and so their relationship (along with most of the other relationships on this show) is shallow and predictable (and TBH, at this point, Hallmark cards elicit more emotional responses from me...and that's not because of the actors. It's because the writing isn't there to support the scene, so the actors are in the unfortunate position of trying to get blood from a stone).

Sure these writers throw in "twists" (Marian = Zelena + preggers) that they think will keep the audience watching (which I think is debatable and really kinda insulting to the audience's intelligence), but the stuff that really matters -- the characters & their relationships -- is utterly predictable. The characters' relationships and interactions are essentially the same as they have always been since s2: Belle will inevitably take Rumpel back; Snowing are epic levels of co-dependent (borderline unhealthy, IMO) and guaranteed to do something really moronic whenever the plot calls for it (because the show writers continue to confuse heroic acts with Darwin Award levels of behavior, and character development with plot points); Regina is on-off horrible, always selfish, blames everyone else for her own shit and effs up their lives, but as always, she won't be called out on it, and basically, she can do no wrong that won't be instantly forgiven and forgotten five seconds later (because the show writers continue to confuse basic levels of human decency with "heroism", and "forgiveness" with forgetfulness); And Rumpel, well this guy continues to be a massive, evil a-hole trying to kill/ruin everyone's lives in pursuit of whatever MacGuffin he's currently after, and yet no one cares enough to do anything about it in the end. The only thing that IMO seems different and well developed since s2 is Emma and Hook's relationship. But other than that, that's it. That's the show, season after season.

Really, when you look at it like that, almost nothing has changed on this show in three seasons. So the promo monkeys and writers can yell "Reset!" all they want. I don't think anyone's buying that snake oil salesman's pitch anymore.

Edited May 5, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Mathius]

I think the biggest show changing reset of them all (outside of the s1 finale) was "Going Home" and that ended up being totally meaningless. It could have reset everything (the characters' relationships, the characters themselves, the story locations, the entire fabric of the show) but in the very next episode everything was back to status quo.

Not everything was back to the status quo the next episode, but the stuff that was left ended up falling back into place as the arc went on (Rumple back to life, Henry's memories, etc.) Once the finale hit, the only difference between the town's condition before "Going Home" and after it was that one Neal had been replaced by another Neal.

[KingOfHearts]

Anyone else think 4B was a bit too... bleak? It seemed too mean-spirited and negative at some points. There was an awful lot of conflict, but a very seldom amount of happy moments. It was all very dire. Regina was depressed, Emma was angry all the time, Snowing were lying for a good portion, Rumpbelle was nothing but angst, etc. This show benefits from its humor and light-hearted tone that comes with the family genre, but in this particular arc I believe it took itself too seriously. Conflict is more meaningful when its balanced with joyful times. It never seemed to go anywhere or make us yearn for better days, nor did it really further any character development. It was repetitive and just so darn depressing.

 

Now I understand the show has covered darker areas in the past. It's not all rainbow kisses and unicorn stickers. I get that. But there's better ways to explore that type of storytelling. Poor writing quality stands out more with serious matters than it does with shallow, family-friendly entertainment. When dwarves are coming out of eggs and BoPeep is a warlord, you can gloss over the mistakes because it's just fun to watch at face value. But what's disappointing with how it's written is that we invest our emotions more, only to feel hurt in the process. The writers just don't know how to write up proper humans.

 

Whatever happened to hope? Isn't that what this show is supposed to be about?

Edited May 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[FabulousTater]

Anyone else think 4B was a bit too... bleak?

[...]

The writers just don't know how to write up proper humans.

I think you answered your own question right there. ;-)

 

I hear what you're saying, but for my tastes 4B (or s4 in general) hasn't been too bleak. It's just been really badly written. The problem, I think, is that the show in general doesn't take scenarios that they setup as serious, seriously, and they compound that problem by not paying-off (or spending little to no time) on the scenes and story line resolutions that really could be very cathartic.

 

For example:

• The Shattered Sight spell. That was sold to us as a "The End is HERE!" kind of event. But the show played it out like a slapstick comedy complete with Three Stooges style laughs. It was the world's longest Three Stooges brawl and everyone just hugged it out in the end. Ooooh, epic scary, writers. *rolling my eyes*.
• Regina's adventures infiltrating the Sisterhood of Evil Cleavage in 4B that was supposed to be super dangerous? Pfft, it amounted to a wild teenage night out on the town. Like, cow tipping would've been more sinister than what they did.
• The Queens of Darkness themselves? Not so scary. Maleficent had the best potential (and reason) to be a real threat and they used her for insta-sleeping spells. That baby rattle she was carrying around was more threatening than anything she did.
• Cruella also had the potential to be dark and sinister, but instead of dark we got mostly snark. Don't get me wrong, it was great snark, but still. The most harm she did was cutting remarks. (And it's sad because she actually could've become a hero had she killed Henry. We were soooo close of being free of that annoying little shit. So close... You couldn't have dragged him over the edge of the cliff with you?! Damn you, Cruella, and your inability to kill. *i cries*.)
• Ursula? Well, turns out she wasn't a Queen of Darkness at all and more like hanging out with the bad crowd to stick it to dad.
• In 4B, they've been hitting away at what was supposedly a super bad, change things forevhah! division between Snowing and Emma and they just resolved it with -- wait for it -- a short minute scene and a hug. Boy, didn't see that coming </sarcasm>. (And to rub salt into that wound, the basis for the resolution was pretty weaksauce. They ignored a lot of the fundamental problems between them and went straight with the easy out of "You lied, err, I mean, you omitted facts [nice whitewash there, Emma] but you're heroes so that makes it okay! Yay! Hugs!" *rolling my eyes some more*

 

The show constantly sets up things that are supposed to be fraught with danger and/or heavy-hitting, but ultimately end up being paper tigers.

 

And on the other side of the coin, to add insult to their paper tiger trail, the scenes that should be cathartic and should makes us all smiley with lovely emotional resolutions, they dedicate minimal time (less than a minute usually) if any time at all:

 

• In "Heroes and VIllains" Hook finally gets his heart back after being under Rumpel's thumb and in mortal peril for several episodes, and that is resolved with a whole 27 seconds of Emma putting his heart back and Emma and Hook kissing, before the writers force on us scene number 68236748723642 of Woegina wallowing in her misery. Yippee.
• Before Ingrid dies, Emma gets back what are supposedly happy memories with Ingrid, which should also provide some catharsis for the character and there's....nothing. The writers don't bother with a single scene or even a throwaway line acknowledging that.
• Going back to Emma and her parents egg!baby lie, that could've given us a real honest conversation between those three characters with a genuine earned resolution, but instead we got a short scene that only reset Emma and her parents relationship back to the shallow Stepford family dimension where it always lives. *sad trombone*

 

Those are just some examples off the top of my head, but I think it's stuff like that that kills the shows emotional moments and not so much that it's dreary. The writers don't know how to properly use and resolve the events they put into play (they give us laughs when it should be serious and skip over catharsis when it could pay off big time) and so everything just ends up feeling like a big pile of icky mush.

Edited May 5, 2015 by FabulousTater

[KingOfHearts]

I believe what I'm trying to say is that if the show wants go grittier, then it should be "Conflict -> Payoff", not "CONFLICT -> CONFLICT -> CONFLICT -> minimal payoff". Several of the plots were put on ice until 4x20 and were supposedly "resolved" in two minute conversations. Regina's quest for the Author and happiness was finished with one quote from Cora. All the buildup and all it took was Zelena's whining about mother. Yeah, no - you don't reverse someone's entire psychological mindset they've had for decades like that.

 

With Snow and Emma, they magically came together through a hug. They didn't need to mutually work out their issues or talk about the real problems that have been there since day one. They framed it as Emma being a rebellious teenager who won't forgive her parents. "Her parents just wanted to protect her!"... I call crap on that. They were looking out for themselves. If you're going to make two "good" characters commit a terrible act or crime, then it should be about them coming to terms with their guilt and making up for it. Instead we just got them being snubbed by Emma repeatedly. We got their reactions in Best Laid Plans, then it was totally dropped. Cut to convenient fix and we're done here. It doesn't even matter now.

 

There's a lack of purpose in the conflict, and there's a lack of purpose in the happy moments. They setup what's not going to happen and they don't for what actually does. It's not clever misdirects or shocking twists. It's lazy writing. The humor and lightheartedness just makes it slightly more palatable because it doesn't always have to have a good reason. Drama, however, does.

Edited May 5, 2015 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

In "Heroes and VIllains" Hook finally gets his heart back after being under Rumpel's thumb and in mortal peril for several episodes, and that is resolved with a whole 27 seconds of Emma putting his heart back and Emma and Hook kissing, before the writers force on us scene number 68236748723642 of Woegina wallowing in her misery.

 

You know what's sad? We spent a considerably much longer time on devising a plan to get Belle's heart back (which we're supposed to assume she willingly gave up to go along with Regina's plan to get back at Rumple), actually watching that plan unfold with tricking Maleficent and Will climbing through the window, and watching Rumple creepily put Belle's heart back in along with a monologue about their relationship, than we ever got with Hook and Emma where his heart was actually maliciously stolen from him for several episodes. Priorities—these writers have them in spades.

[KAOS Agent]

It would have helped to explain just what the author can and cannot do. If characters are spending an entire season looking for the guy, maybe they could have built up a little more drama by laying out what could happen if Rumpel gets his hands on the guy. I know we're getting Bizarro!World, but what does that mean? Can he rewrite the past? Does he change their personalities? Am I as an audience member now actually being told that the villains really aren't bad, but just drawn that way? Can he raise people from the dead? If so, would someone like Regina ask for Daniel to be resurrected or would that not work for her now that she's got a new man?

They are always so focused on the twist that they miss that there is huge drama to be found in the build up. In this case, they really could have played the what if game. Why not have several AU episodes? One for each character? Let Snowing see what it would be like to have raised Emma, Regina to have succeeded in running off with Daniel or going into that tavern and meeting Robin, let Hook save Liam and see where that took the Jones brothers. Instead, we got a season of convoluted stories and wasted characters and ret-cons galore and we still don't know what it means that they've reached the ultimate goal of the season other than a dun, dun, dun when Isaac pulled out his quill.

[Shanna Marie]

I think one of the big problems with both the darker side of things and the lighter side of things is that the writing on the whole tends to be very superficial. They set up all these potentially interesting things but always end up skimming the surface and then jumping on to the next thing.

 

So we get stuff like the super-scary spell that will destroy us all, and the result is a little street brawling that ends in everyone laughing after the spell breaks. No consequences at all, no using the spell to explore the darker feelings that might actually be justified, not even consistent development of the spell's effects.

 

Or we get Regina suddenly and abruptly having the epiphany that essentially changes absolutely everything about her entire world view in a brief scene and a flashback, after we've spent the entire season with all the other characters endorsing her world view. Much of the series has been driven by Regina's quest for a happy ending. That was the reason she cast the curse, because she thought that was the only way she could get a happy ending. She killed her father because of this. And it comes down to, "Oh, wait, never mind, I guess I'm supposed to make my own happy ending, duh!" This should be huge. Of all times for them not to wallow in Regina, to not show every single step of her process, this was not it. This should also fundamentally change her character going forward. Will we still have all the Woegina crying over everything that doesn't go her way, or will she follow through on this and actually take responsibility for her own life?

 

But on the lighter side where they could play with the whimsy of the situation and the storybook/real world mashup, we have one of the few characters who's 100 percent "real world" (in spite of her heritage) dating one of the few characters who's 100 percent Enchanted Forest, since he was never cursed with fake memories, and the most we get out of what should be an epic culture clash is a single Netflix joke. Working with that culture clash would not only provide a lot of humor, but it would give the relationship a little bit of an edge (for those who complain about it being too easy with no conflict). They could still get each other on a fundamental level the way they do and be totally supportive while not entirely understanding each other's worlds or lifestyles.

 

Or with Emma's magic, they've never really dug into how that works for her or done anything consistent with her. We get her annual "you have to believe in yourself!" breakthrough, followed by her suddenly having extra abilities (like healing now), and usually followed by her not getting a chance to actually use her magic in a useful way when the situation gets dire. She's only allowed to move around hot cocoa, untie ropes or heal a bruise.

 

All they really need to do is dig into what they've established and explore all the possibilities. Then they'd have more material than they'd know what to do with. They're not writing for five-year-old boys. They're writing for adults, probably mostly women, so their audience likes conversations and relationships. I'm not sure why they're so afraid of that sort of thing. Those are the best scenes in the series, and they actually do them well when they bother to do them.

[coops]

I find the writing to be clunky; really big conflicts/problems are brushed over in a few lines, such as Roland having to deal with the fact his mother died again and its all 'dont worry we'll make a potion!' Sometimes the characters act downright weird. And as much as I loved the nuttiness of Zelena's cheerful 'Ill put the kettle on' when Regina came to visit her in her cell, earlier in that episode I cringed at how Emma was talking to Lily about how Zelena killed Neal while Zelena was pottering around in the background making coffee! Dangerous mass muderer alert, maybe you might want to restrain her???

Its the same issue I have with Regina when she started becoming the loving stepmother to Roland in season 3 along with having cosy dinners with the Charmings at Grannys. Why would any of those people in their right minds want her anywhere near them??? What could they possibly have to talk about? 'Remember that time when you almost killed us? Lol-fest or what huh?' Now if Regina had decided to dedicate herself to helping others find their happy endings to REDEEM ALL THE EVIL she did none of that would be such a cringe fest. I'd buy that people were willing to forgive her, but her goal has been written all wrong. Now next season she wont be questing for her own happy ending there might be a chance of this happening, but it wont take away the fact everyone shrugged and forgave a highly dangerous murderer when in reality they would have locked her up.

The culture clash mentioned above is one of the main things I was looking forward to in season 1 before the curse broke. Once the characters remembered they came from the EF I really wanted to see how they dealt with the reality of being in our world. This never happened. Apart from Regina, kings and queens were downgraded to normal citizens. How did they feel about this? How do they feel about technology? How do they feel about the various portrayls of themselves and their lives in our world? There is so much to be explored there and it would bring the show back to contrasting the original stories with life in our world one of the major things I miss from season 1, like the Cinderella episode where the Storybrooke parts were like watching a modern day Cinderella.

[FabulousTater]

And as much as I loved the nuttiness of Zelena's cheerful 'Ill put the kettle on' when Regina came to visit her in her cell, earlier in that episode I cringed at how Emma was talking to Lily about how Zelena killed Neal while Zelena was pottering around in the background making coffee! Dangerous mass muderer alert, maybe you might want to restrain her???

Well, except, in a bizarre feeling of fairness that's overcome me towards Zelena, she didn't kill Nealfire. The Douchecanoe killed himself. All Zelena did right before Nealfire killed himself was stand there and told Belle AND Nealfire, "Yup, it's a trap. I want you to free the Dark One. Feel free to spring the trap that I'm telling you is a trap." Zelena literally just stood there while Nealfire killed himself while waving his flag of Ultimate Darwin Award Champion. Dumbass killed himself by springing the trap that he knew was a trap. The trap that Belle told him "Hey, stupid, it's a trap." That Zelena told him "Hey, stupid, it's a trap." 

 

Too Stupid To Live Achievement: Unlocked!

 

(Not that I'm saying Zelena should be set free, because no. Bitch be crazy. But, Nealfire pretty much killed himself.)

Edited May 5, 2015 by FabulousTater

[YaddaYadda]

Too Stupid To Live Achievement: Unlocked!

 

 

Felix: ...you grew up stupid...

Zelena: ...dumber than a box of hair...

 

Poor Neal!  He really never stood a chance, did he?

[FabulousTater]

Felix: ...you grew up stupid...

Zelena: ...dumber than a box of hair...

 

Poor Neal!  He really never stood a chance, did he?

What's worse is that he passed on the Too Stupid To Live.

 

Behold his dreadful spawn: Henry - The Truest Stupid. Little Mr. "I'm gonna rip my own heart out and give it to the evil Man Child (who is dressed in green tights and kidnapped me and that totally screams trusthworthy) even though all my parents are telling me not to do it. Idiots. What do they know? I'm The Truest STUPID! What could go wrong!!!"

Edited May 5, 2015 by FabulousTater

[Rumsy4]

Well, except, in a bizarre feeling of fairness that's overcome me towards Zelena, she didn't kill Nealfire. The Douchecanoe killed himself. All Zelena did right before Nealfire killed himself was stand there and told Belle AND Nealfire, "Yup, it's a trap. I want you to free the Dark One. Feel free to spring the trap that I'm telling you is a trap." Zelena literally just stood there while Nealfire killed himself while waving his flag of Ultimate Darwin Award Champion. Dumbass killed himself by springing the trap that he knew was a trap. The trap that Belle told him "Hey, stupid, it's a trap." That Zelena told him "Hey, stupid, it's a trap." 

 

Too Stupid To Live Achievement: Unlocked!

 

(Not that I'm saying Zelena should be set free, because no. Bitch be crazy. But, Nealfire pretty much killed himself.)

 

 

Yes! Yes, and yes! It's annoying when everyone in the Show, including Zelena, keeps telling that she killed Neal, or was "responsible" for his death. If Zelena had threatened Belle'a life unless he complied, that would have been a brave act. As such, Bagel's death is on no one but himself. 

[coops]

In a messed up way Zelena is kind of treated unfairly. She is the only villian to be locked up whereas all the others are let free! In fact most of the time the heros are running around trying to help the likes of Regina and Maleficent but Zelena gets locked up, both at the end 3B and now. I guess it because she pissed off everyone's best bud Regina.

[Mathius]

And as much as I loved the nuttiness of Zelena's cheerful 'Ill put the kettle on' when Regina came to visit her in her cell, earlier in that episode I cringed at how Emma was talking to Lily about how Zelena killed Neal while Zelena was pottering around in the background making coffee! Dangerous mass muderer alert, maybe you might want to restrain her???

Zelena killed Neal (kind of) and Marian, but that's it. Hardly a mass murderer.

In a messed up way Zelena is kind of treated unfairly. She is the only villian to be locked up whereas all the others are let free! In fact most of the time the heros are running around trying to help the likes of Regina and Maleficent but Zelena gets locked up, both at the end 3B and now. I guess it because she pissed off everyone's best bud Regina.

As I said before, she has no power and privilege, and thus falls prey to double standards.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Mathius

[Delphi]

Minus the missing year though, most of the atrocities that Zelena committed were done in the span of two weeks, or so. That's a short time to rack up evil points.

Rumple has had centuries to cultivate his evil and even when he was taking deals he wasn't always just awful. He stopped the Ogre Wars. He helped Charming find Snow. I'm not saying he was good or wasn'T suiting his own goal, but there were positive results.

Hook performed villainy but he was occasionally noble about it, sometimes selfless.

Zelena is on or above Cora level, she's just...insanely evil.

As for not restraining her in 'Manhattan' it wasn't really needed. Zelena is completely harmless to Emma in the land without magic, Emma would knock her six ways from Sunday.

[Camera One]

I was just thinking back to that promo at the beginning of 4B featuring the Queens of Darkness and Emma potentially turning Dark.

 

One Queen of Darkness disappeared halfway through 4B, becoming completely irrelevant.  If Ursula hadn't even been in this season, what difference would it have made?  

 

The only reason why Rumple seemingly needed Ursula and Cruella was to get into Storybrooke, so only one of them was needed, and even a one-episode guest star would have sufficed.  It could even have been a wayward Storybrooker who ended up on the wrong side of the townline and was now begging to get back.

 

Cruella lasted longer, but again, her absence would have had no major consequence.  

 

Once he was in town, technically, Rumple could have resurrected Maleficent himself.  Now why was Maleficent needed for his plan?  Why did he feel the need to tell her about her daughter?  

 

What exactly was Rumple's next step in trying to turn Emma dark?  He didn't do anything active to make it happen.  The Cruella thing fell onto his lap.  He also didn't engineer Emma knowing Lily, or Maleficent asking Emma to find Lily.

 

And in the end, Emma turning dark wasn't even necessary since, they can just use Lily's blood instead!  

 

Why did the Author decide to go back to Rumple once he had the ink?  Why not just write whatever he desired?  It's not like Rumple offered him protection, or has anything of worth to him.  Even worse, Rumple had power over him.  Why not write that no one in Storybrooke will ever be able to find him?  And that he will never lose the Writer's job again.  And that the ink well will be ever flowing?  And then write everyone doing whatever he wanted?

 

Meanwhile, there was the Zelena stuff.  If Regina hadn't given Robin and Marion the keys to Neal's apartment, would Zelena have even known he was in NYC?   When was Zelena planning to contact Regina?  What happened to Zelena asking Rumple to make sure she got a happy ending with the Author as well.  Or did she actually not care about that?  If not, why not just kill Rumple when she had the chance?

 

Everything in 4B felt either contrived for a specific plot outcome, or filler to waste time.  

Edited May 6, 2015 by Camera One

[Curio]

And in the end, Emma turning dark wasn't even necessary since, they can just use Lily's blood instead!   

 

Emma! You're essential to the plot because your dark blood is necessary for writing new happy endings! Just kidding... Lily has dark savior blood, too. We can just use hers.

 

Emma! You're essential to defeating the Wicked Witch because you're the only one with white magic! Just kidding... Regina randomly has white magic, too. We can just use hers.

 

Seriously—Emma, go grab your pirate boyfriend and leave Storybrooke while you can. You're not needed.

[YaddaYadda]

And in the end, Emma turning dark wasn't even necessary since, they can just use Lily's blood instead!

 

To be fair, Lily wasn't in Storybrooke and when Regina went to steal the Author from Rumple, he had no idea how to achieve his goal, but she had an inkling and that's why she went to Lily.  And that's probably why they decided to do the whole Lily has Emma's darkness in her which makes that whole Chernabog plot point completely useless as it were since Emma has basically zero potential for darkness or whatever.

 

What am I doing?  Why am I writing about this before 9 am?

 

Emma! You're essential to the plot because your dark blood is necessary for writing new happy endings! Just kidding... Lily has dark savior blood, too. We can just use hers.

Emma! You're essential to defeating the Wicked Witch because you're the only one with white magic! Just kidding... Regina randomly has white magic, too. We can just use hers.

Seriously—Emma, go grab your pirate boyfriend and leave Storybrooke while you can. You're not needed.

 

I find it sad how useless they have made Emma, how they build these plots around her and then nothing.  You're right, she should grab her boyfriend and go back to NYC where I'm sure her apartment still exists (since Neal's still exists even though he's been dead for months now).  She can just enjoy her life for a change and be completely happy.

 

Am I the only one who thinks that Emma's happy ending will happen outside of crazy town?

[FurryFury]

Probably outside of this show, too.

[BoPeeps]

To be metaphorically blunt, the creators and writers are all foreplay and no orgasm.

We hang around because the concept and promise of the potential are so lush with possibilities we are willing to forgive or overlook the sloppy and often dishonest teases because we yearn for that sweet satisfaction of the big sensual payoff of a story well told.

Not gonna happen. Not in any realm.

They are...lousy lovers ...in Storybrooke or the EF.We are...enabling, insufferable romantics.

Hope springs eternal for us and they relentlessly "play" us on that knowing full well that they can't deliver. They barricade themselves behind the visual pretties and continue the torture because "hope" tends to control. Those viewers who seek a bit more depth to their fantasy adventure needs will always be frustrated and left wanting. The less needy viewers will give them the doting attention (and viewer numbers) they need to continue the mediocre story telling they are providing until the bottom line is no longer profitable for them.

Why do we (I) hang around?

Dunno. Guess crappy foreplay is still better than none...until it isn't (heh) Apparently, in my case it isn't, yet...but it is getting mighty close.

Edited May 6, 2015 by BoPeeps

[Shanna Marie]

Why would any of those people in their right minds want her anywhere near them??? What could they possibly have to talk about? 'Remember that time when you almost killed us? Lol-fest or what huh?'

This is one of those cases of superficial writing because instead of really delving into what it would take for someone like her who'd done the things she's done to turn her life around and reconcile with her former victims, they just sort of waved the magic "redeemed" wand. We didn't even see enough bonding on the Neverland adventure to warrant them all becoming best friends. I know a lot of Regina fans say that it would be out of character and unnecessary for her to apologize and grovel the way Snow has to her, but even if they're extending grace, mercy, forgiveness, and all that, there's the practical matter that this person who has devoted her adult live to wanting to destroy Snow has never actually said she's done with that. She may have stopped trying, but how do you tell the difference between being done with that and biding her time while coming up with a new scheme unless she's actually said she's not going to do it anymore and why she's changed her mind? From what she's said, it sounds like she still does blame Snow for Daniel's death and considers Snow to have murdered Cora. How can they know she's done with revenge unless she says something like, "Revenge was wrong" or "I put the blame in the wrong place"? So they're hanging out with and trusting someone who vowed to destroy their family just because she stopped trying to destroy them for a while.

 

And even if Snow is Stockholm Syndromed enough to put up with Regina, what about all the other people she harmed? Are they okay with her -- and her being mayor? What about the bride whose husband had his heart crushed at their wedding? The family members of people who were executed? The people whose hearts are still in the vault?

 

The culture clash mentioned above is one of the main things I was looking forward to in season 1 before the curse broke. Once the characters remembered they came from the EF I really wanted to see how they dealt with the reality of being in our world. This never happened.

More shallow writing. David made the big "we are both" speech, and then identity was no longer an issue. They could have had so much fun with that, even in the background. Maybe some people preferred their Storybrooke lives and kept living that way while others wanted to go back to their Enchanted Forest way of life even while staying in Storybrooke, so they might have had a mix of old and new world culture -- would artisans and craftsmen be happy just selling things they didn't make, for instance? What do people like knights do in this world? Or pirates -- Smee told Hook last season that the crew wanted to get up to some piracy. What do the pirates think now that they know Hook ditched them and left them to the curse?

 

Emma! You're essential to the plot because your dark blood is necessary for writing new happy endings! Just kidding... Lily has dark savior blood, too. We can just use hers.

 

Emma! You're essential to defeating the Wicked Witch because you're the only one with white magic! Just kidding... Regina randomly has white magic, too. We can just use hers.

That's a rather alarming pattern. I'm okay with Emma not being turned dark (and I'm sure Emma is, too), but they do seem to like building up her importance only to show at the last second that someone else could easily fill in. Just as they like bringing her to a new level in being able to use her magic, only to freeze her for the big confrontation so that she's never actually had the chance to use her magic to do anything all that useful.

 

To be metaphorically blunt, the creators and writers are all foreplay and no orgasm.

Sometimes, they really build with the foreplay, get things hot and heavy, then get distracted by something else and go do that, completely forgetting what they were doing before. Other times, they skip foreplay entirely, rush straight to and through the deed, satisfy themselves, and move on with no thought as to whether it was good for anyone else.

[FabulousTater]

Sometimes, they really build with the foreplay, get things hot and heavy, then get distracted by something else and go do that, completely forgetting what they were doing before. Other times, they skip foreplay entirely, rush straight to and through the deed, satisfy themselves, and move on with no thought as to whether it was good for anyone else.

It's almost like this show is written by two 15 year old boys....oh, wait a minute..

[Curio]

I have to admit, I'm kind of surprised so many people are picking the magical deus ex machina whiteout in the weekly poll. I didn't think that one would be so popular!

 

But it's also sad that we're already at the finale and I can't think of anything the writers have introduced so far in 4B that could get them out of this pickle. Which inevitably means there will be some sort of deus ex machina introduced at the last second. Does the wishing star necklace still exist? Is that a thing? What does the black fairy's wand control? Has that been established? True Love's [something]? The empty books in the library?

Edited May 7, 2015 by Curio

[Souris]

I voted for the editor. Because I will always vote for the editor. This show needs a damn story editor.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Souris

[Mari]

I voted for the white out.   I figured that since only the last two minutes are going to matter anyway, judging on previous seasons, so that it's like the whole thing's going to be whited out. 

 

Yes.  My brain is full of cheesy jokes and bad puns.  I don't even care. 

 

Well, mostly don't care.

 

Some days.  :)

Edited May 8, 2015 by Mari

[jhlipton]

It would have helped to explain just what the author can and cannot do. 

 

He can remove a major chunk of what makes a character "tick".  Writing "Thou shall not kill" changed her in a major way.  Free will? what's that?

[Rumsy4]

I voted for the editor. Because I will always vote for the editor. This show needs a damn story editor.

 

Heh. I went for the editor too. Crackpot theory time: Henry acts as the editor. 

[Shanna Marie]

Thinking more about how some arcs have worked better than others, one very good bit of writing advice I've heard is that a story goal needs to be so specific and concrete that you know what it will look like when it happens. This is especially important in movies and TV, where everything has to happen in a scene. This doesn't necessarily mean that you should be able to predict what happens, just that when you know what the characters are trying to do, it should be something clear enough that you'll know for sure when it happens because you'll see it take place.

 

So for season one, the story goal for Henry, our real protagonist, was to break the curse. Even in the pilot episode, you had a pretty good sense of what that would look like. Since they started the pilot with a True Love's Kiss, there was a pretty good chance that's how the curse would be broken. The big question was whether it would be Emma and one of her parents or Emma and her son, and we didn't know exactly how it would all come about. But even in that pilot, you could imagine how it would look. There would be the kiss, some visual effect, and then everyone blinking like they were waking up and then rushing toward their loved ones.

 

In 2A, their goal was getting home, and that was pretty obvious -- the triumphant return and joyous reunion with loved ones. They gave us some twists, like Snow having to get back in order to save David, but otherwise, we knew what getting home would look like.

 

In 2B, there was no real goal, so it's impossible to picture what would happen to resolve things. If we flip it around and look at the villains, then Hook has a very specific and concrete goal: he wants to drive his poisoned hook into Rumple and kill him. Even before it happens, we know exactly what it wants and can imagine that scene. Cora wanted to become the Dark One. It didn't happen, but we can imagine what it would have looked like if it had -- you could have made a scene out of it. Greg and Tamara got kind of wonky because we didn't really know what they wanted. I guess they wanted to destroy Storybrooke, and we got a sense of how that might have looked, but it was all still pretty vague, and the heroes had no idea what was happening until it happened.

 

In 3A, the goal was saving Henry, so the conclusion of that would be something like them sailing back to Storybrooke on the Jolly Roger with Henry. We would know for sure whether or not Henry was saved.

 

3B gets harder because the only goal was stopping Zelena, but you can't picture that until you know what they need to stop Zelena from doing, and they didn't know that until later in the season. Goodness knows, I didn't picture Regina Tinkerbell Jesus. That wasn't a pleasant surprise. The finale had a good, specific goal: setting things right and getting home, so we knew it would involve Emma rushing home to find that her parents were still her parents.

 

4A, one goal was finding Anna, so I guess you could picture the joyous reunion between the sisters. Otherwise, they were stopping Ingrid, but they didn't know what they were stopping her from doing until the last minute. The sparkly snow effect was specific and visual, but I don't think the aftermath of that spell really would have been laughing and hugging. More like a little resentment and hurt feelings that would take time to get past, since people were saying things they actually felt. Theoretically. No one had a goal relating to Rumple because no one knew what he was up to until the end.

 

4B, what, exactly, does a happy ending look like? It's not the end unless the series is cancelled, so how do you picture an "ending" when life is going to go on and presumably it's never going to be perfect for anyone? What did Regina even want as her happy ending all this time? Once she had the Author, she was going to make Zelena not be pregnant or never have existed, but before that, what? Make Marian have died? Cure Marian so Robin could come back and be with her and split custody with Roland? And even though Regina changed her mind, it had to be told to us because you can't really picture something that vague and internal.

[Camera One]

I was just thinking about the pacing of 4B.  It took 3 episodes for the heroes (sorry, I mean "heroes" because they're 50 shades of grey) to realize Rumple was back in town, and then 1 episode to find out Rumple's plan to darken Emma, and then 1 episode to try to stop him from getting to the Author/finding the author first, but Rumple succeeds anyway and holds on to the Author for 3 episodes but can't do anything since he doesn't have the ink until Emma turns dark.  Then suddenly, it's the episode before the finale, so the tide turns, Rumple suffers major heart pain and Regina gets the Author AND the Ink without the need for Emma to turn dark, and realizes she never needed the Author after all, but in the last minute, the Author escapes.  Leading to whatever the hell next week is about.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Camera One

[HoodlumSheep]

I'm still not over everyone letting Rumple and the author hang out. I suppose they thought that without he ink, the author was harmless, and that they should probably leave the all-powerful Dark One alone...but still? They were just so nonchalant about it. I would think they'd want to keep those two separated just incase they got their hands on some magical ink.

[Curio]

The entire freaking town was so nonchalant about everything in 4B. (Except for the Chernabog.) You'd think at least Grumpy would have voiced some opinions about letting Maleficent, Cruella, and Ursula waltz around town. The most we got from the other townsfolk was Granny giving Ursula and Cruella bad dining service.

[YaddaYadda]

I'm still not over everyone letting Rumple and the author hang out. I suppose they thought that without he ink, the author was harmless, and that they should probably leave the all-powerful Dark One alone...but still?

 

Snowing stood right there with him, but they had to run and stop Emma from killing Cruella.

 

And Hook was too busy gloating to grab the man by the scruff of the neck and drag him away from Rumple.

 

And Regina decided that she had her happy ending after all so she left that slimey bastard with the ink.

 

They're all idiots.

[Shanna Marie]

The entire freaking town was so nonchalant about everything in 4B. (Except for the Chernabog.) You'd think at least Grumpy would have voiced some opinions about letting Maleficent, Cruella, and Ursula waltz around town. The most we got from the other townsfolk was Granny giving Ursula and Cruella bad dining service.

That's a persistent problem, that no one is allowed to act like a normal human being. No one seems to be at all bothered by Regina apparently being Mayor for Life, not even the family members of people whose hearts she crushed just for fun. The Dark One can wander into the local diner and hang out with the Author, and nobody bats an eye. Maleficent's in town and we never get to see what Aurora thinks about that -- not even a mention of one of the sheriffs having talked to her about it. It's like the main characters exist in a vacuum, and the main character villains or primary guest villains get some kind of immunity. It's really just bizarre if you think about it.

[Actionmage]

Maleficent's in town and we never get to see what Aurora thinks about that -- not even a mention of one of the sheriffs having talked to her about it. It's like the main characters exist in a vacuum, and the main character villains or primary guest villains get some kind of immunity. It's really just bizarre if you think about it.

 

Having all three villainesses in town, written in a way that explored not only their demons but how their foes react to them now, could have been a fascinating full season. Even if you kept in the Author and Rumple and Emma going dark stuff. A little more breathing room for the stories and this particular take might have been interesting, or at least potentially less teeth-gnashy.

 

Seeing a peace-wanting, forward-looking Mal and current mom Aurora could have delicious layers and at least a shared understanding/ agreement about peace between them moving forward.  Instead, Mal gets outfoxed by Gold's temporary alliance with Will Scarlet, several scenes with Snowing explaining/apologizing and Mal over them and Mal picking up Regina for a spot of marionette-napping in Cruella's magic Rolls.

[Actionmage]

For whatever reason, the writers/producers/directors are set on a certain course and they completely refuse to consider their first idea might not have been their best one.

 

You know, while  I have trouble with lots of writing decisions, it was their original idea that got me to tune in, every week, like clockwork in Season 1. As much as my hope for internal consistency has eroded since then, we have Season 1 as a mostly wonderful gift. ( And thank you for the kind words, whimsey98.)

 

The entire freaking town was so nonchalant about everything in 4B. (Except for the Chernabog.) You'd think at least Grumpy would have voiced some opinions about letting Maleficent, Cruella, and Ursula waltz around town. The most we got from the other townsfolk was Granny giving Ursula and Cruella bad dining service.

 

This!  Where were the dwarves? They and Granny and Red and the reliable pitchfork & torches crew could have gone looking for the Author!  Not all of them would have been altruistic either.  But that would be too boring, going by the established boring-o-meter by A&E: People connecting? Boring.  Big news about how your parents fiddled about with you in utero? Too boring.  A scene of someone complaining that happy endings are unfairly withheld? Must have! 

 

I just want the supporting characters back. ( I am enjoying Rose McIver and David Anders ( Tinkerbell and Dr. Whale/Frankenstein) on iZombie, so I get their absence.) Is poor Marco okay? Is August hanging out and looking after his Papa? Did Bo Peep decide to take over the Any Given Sundae shop?  Can we see another town get-together like in "Dreamy"?Did Hansel and Gretel's dad get custody of Cruella's Rolls?   Because it feels like "town" consists  of Snowing, Baby Snowflake, Hook, Emma, Henry, Regina, Belle, and Rumple. 

Edited May 8, 2015 by Actionmage