S04.E05: First Of His Name 2014.05.04

[Catherinewriter]

I'm not sure Cersei really believes that Tyrion murdered Joffrey. She just wants to get rid of him in a quasi-legal way. But I'm not sure why, though I expect it's been revealed earlier. He's smarter than she is, he's a man and gets more attention than she does (well, so does Jamie, but they're sleeping together so there's that). And if he's gone, there's more chance that she will move up the ladder to whatever one achieves at the top of the Lannister ladder.

Margery had better watch out, just sayin'.

[Constantinople]

"I'm warning you I'm going to scream when my husband makes love to me.  I'm going to scream so loudly they'll hear me clear across the Narrow Sea"

 

Say what you will about Lysa, but she doesn't make idle threats.

[bunnyblue]

 

Did Robin throw the gift that Littlefinger just gave him down the moon hole?

 

Yup. Little ingrate. And his mother didn't reprimand him. That kid has no manners and is so spoiled.

 

 

Does Cersei have a heart after all?  Probably not, but she sure acted like it last night.

 

No. Cersei only cares about herself and her 3 kids. Now that she's lost 2 of them, she's acting all woe-is-me and milking her pain for all it's worth. She gets no sympathy from me. She certainly felt no pity for Ned as he was wrongly executed. She loved tormenting Sansa while she was her prisoner. She gloated over Robb and Cat's grisly deaths. I hope her crocodile tears don't sway Oberyn to her side. I want her to continue to suffer.

 

 

But I thought they were bigger than that? Ghost seemed a bit small when he reunited with Jon.

 

Last week Summer looked huge next to Bran and when he walked past Hodor. Grey Wind looked pretty big when he walked along side horses. I think Ghost may be smaller than them. He didn't look as large when he stood next to Jon last night and when he stood next to Commander Mormont and the Night's Watch in the season 3 premiere. I remember Theon calling the little white pup "the runt of the litter".

 

I loved Jon's reunion with Ghost. At least the show threw us a bone. I thought I saw blood on Ghost's muzzle. But it was so dark I couldn't be sure. If it was blood I found it funny Jon didn't even flinch at the sight of his wolf fresh from a kill.

Edited May 6, 2014 by bunnyblue

[LittleIggy]

Why did Locke try to abduct Bran?

[dramachick]

Why did Locke try to abduct Bran?

I think Locke was going to torture Bran to find out where Rickon was and then kill him. 

[LittleIggy]

"I'm warning you I'm going to scream when my husband makes love to me.  I'm going to scream so loudly they'll hear me clear across the Narrow Sea"

 

Say what you will about Lysa, but she doesn't make idle threats.

Wonder if Littlefinger wore earplugs. Bet he had to think about Sansa while doing the deed.

[SourK]

I laughed and laughed at Littlefinger getting hoist by his own petard and having to marry Lysa and live with her creepy son. I mean, clearly he's going to kill her, because she can't keep her mouth shut (that was some awkward exposition, BTW; this show usually does a better job), and how hard will it really be to pretend she just fell through that big, gaping hole in the floor that they like to keep open? Still, I feel like he's not very good at Game of Thrones. Yeah, he's moving up in the world, but he keeps getting all these crap titles, and ruins, and now there's all this stuff -- he's just very funny to me. I'm sure he'll do something awful and terrifying to make me hate him, soon, but for now I really enjoy it.

 

Serious question about Essos, though. Is Dany now living in wherever the hell place Shae comes from? Or are they conicidentally dressing the same? Or are they actually not dressed the same, and I'm bad at noticing the details of dresses (all of these things are possible)?

 

From a character perspective, it would make sense to me if Dany's story was ultimately that she decides she wants to live in Essos (and rule it?) and that Westeros is a foreign land to her that she no longer has interest in conquering, but, from a TV show perspective, she's always been kind of disconnected from everyone else, and her storyline is underdeveloped because of that. We're now in the fourth season, and she has even less to do with the other characters than she did at the beginning. I like her as a character, and I get that she and her dragons are one of the most iconic aspects of the show, but it's getting pretty weird.

 

Speaking of story lines that are boring, I enjoy that we haven't seen Rickon in ages.

[Lady S.]

Was this the first Tyrion-free episode?

Rains of Castamere was a completely Lannister-free ep. Though one could say their presence was felt with the song, and Roose did manage to deliver their regards.

Last week Summer looked huge next to Bran and when he walked past Hodor. Grey Wind looked pretty big when he walked along side horses. I think Ghost may be smaller than them. He didn't look as large when he stood next to Jon last night and when he stood next to Commander Mormont and the Night's Watch in the season 3 premiere. I remember Theon calling the little white pup "the runt of the litter".

I tracked down a gallery with s3 screencaps and I don't think we ever saw Ghost standing near Mormont, he just kinda disappeared back into the snow the wight got burned. We didn't really see him standing side by side with Jon for a height difference. He was definitely no smaller than Summer and Shaggydog in s2. But I don't think there's always consistency in the wolf cgi, and I really don't think Theon's word is anything to go by, before the cgi they all looked the same size in s1. Edited May 6, 2014 by Lady S.

[Haldebrandt]

The whole North of the Wall thing plays out like fanfic: A hoary collection of cliches.  You could see every beat from that sequence from miles away (and the Unsullied did a week ago).

 

I get that Bran's (and Jon's) story need some spicing up.  I just wish D&D had been more creative about it.

 

ASOIAF is many things, not al of htem good.  But predictable isn't one of them.

[KurlyGrl]

 

 

Why did Locke try to abduct Bran?

 

 

I think Locke was going to torture Bran to find out where Rickon was and then kill him.

 

And didn't Locke plan to do this all for the benefit of what's his name in Theon's arc.  Ramsey?  Is that his name?  Why can't I remember at the moment?  Probably cause I should be doing work instead of hanging out online.  LOL!!

Edited May 6, 2014 by KurlyGrl

[Constantinople]

Leaving aside the whole issue as to whether 10,000 soldiers (and 3 teen aged dragons) are enough to conquer the Seven Kingdoms, I didn't understand Ser Barristan's plan to sail on King's Landing, at least the part about calling it unexpected.

 

I don't know how long it would take to sail 93 ships with approximately 10,000 men from Mereen to King's Landing, but I suspect Tywin & Co. would hear about it long before the fleet reached Blackwater Bay.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Constantinople

[LittleIggy]

I think Locke was going to torture Bran to find out where Rickon was and then kill him.

Again, why? All these bearded guys confuse me!

[Isazouzi]

Again, why? All these bearded guys confuse me!

 

Because Theon told Bolton that he didn't kill the Stark boys and they want them dead?

[JTMacc99]

Because Theon told Bolton that he didn't kill the Stark boys and they want them dead?

I think that is right. If there are surviving Stark kids, he felt that he could never actually be the King of the North. The people would always consider [any Stark] > Bolton.

Edited May 6, 2014 by JTMacc99

[TooMuchCoffee]

I really need a Cliff's Notes for this show - the spoiler-free version of course. So... I think...

Bolton was a Stark bannerman who realigned with the Lannisters via Walder Frey. Locke was one of Bolton's men and the one who turned Jaime into a southpaw. Theon as Reek admitted that the younger Stark boys are alive.  To keep the rest of the North from rallying behind Bran and Rickon, Bolton sent Locke to find Jon Snow and hopefully Bran and Rickon. We can guess why Locke didn't kill Bran on the spot... first find out where Rickon is, kill him where Jon might not find the body and suspect Locke, hope the mutineers win so he, Locke, could maybe make it back south of the wall with Bran's head...  

[sugarbaker design]

I really need a Cliff's Notes for this show - the spoiler-free version of course. So... I think...

Bolton was a Stark bannerman who realigned with the Lannisters via Walder Frey. Locke was one of Bolton's men and the one who turned Jaime into a southpaw. Theon as Reek admitted that the younger Stark boys are alive.  To keep the rest of the North from rallying behind Bran and Rickon, Bolton sent Locke to find Jon Snow and hopefully Bran and Rickon. We can guess why Locke didn't kill Bran on the spot... first find out where Rickon is, kill him where Jon might not find the body and suspect Locke, hope the mutineers win so he, Locke, could maybe make it back south of the wall with Bran's head...

 

 

Nicely put, that's it in a nutshell.

[Constantinople]

All these bearded guys confuse me!

 

It helps if you break them down by color, geography or other defining features.  For example

 

Meeren:

1. Black beard - Daario Naharis - leader of the mercenary army The Second Sons
2. Grey/White beard - Barristan Selmy - former Lord Commander of King Robert's Kingsguard, now Lord Commander of Daenery's Queensguard (though I think that's a Queensguard of 1 for now)
3. Red beard, with some grey - Ser Jorah Mormont - Effectively the Queen's Hand

 

King's Landing

1. Trim grey/white beard, so trim it's barely there - Tywin Lannister - Hand of the King
2. Long white beard, fakes walking with a stoop - Grand Maester Pycelle - Lannister bootlicker
3. Trim black beard and moustache with some grey - wears pants when making out - Prince Oberyn from Dorne
4. Loras Tyrell, Margaery's brother, heir to Highgarden and the Knight of the Flowers.  Though clean shaven, his beard has a multitude of nicknames, such as "Your Grace" or "Cersei".

Edited May 6, 2014 by Constantinople

[Conan Troutman]

I laughed and laughed at Littlefinger getting hoist by his own petard and having to marry Lysa and live with her creepy son.

I got the impression that the little sucker is actually not only her, but their son. Didn't they say at some point in their awkward exposition (not quite sexposition, thank the gods!) that they did consumate the marriage already, long ago? Would be great, now we not only got creepy Littlefinger, but also even creepier little Littlefinger (Tinyfinger?). Ew. And of course Sansa's got to marry that, ahem, product of their love. Once more: Poor Sansa (she should get herself a shirt with that...).

 

Oh, and they were behind Arryn's death? Of course. I always thought Littlefinger's betrayal of Ned was more of a reaction to the circumstances and that he wanted to unveil the twincest thing to create chaos. Apparently, he planned to betray Ned all along and then hope that Joffers would do something stupid (granted, one can absolutely count on that...) so there's a war with the North. And now I'm quite sure he hired some old, subpar assassin and gave him Tyrion's dagger, too (maybe in co-op with Cersei). Maybe he's afraid that Tyrion will, at some point, see right through him and uncover the truth. That's why he tried a second time to get rid of him. Hell, maybe it was even him who planted the idea in Joffrey's head to assassinate Tyrion at the Blackwater? IIRC, he wasn't there at that point (wasn't he with the Tyrells?), but apparently that doesn't stop him from planning assassinations.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[bravelittletoaster]

And yet he still manages alternately to bore and annoy the shit out of me every time he's on screen.  For this viewer finding out Littlefinger is the puppet master on this show is a most unfortunate turn of events.  So, so miscast.  Ugh.  Ruined the whole big "reveal" for me.

[TooMuchCoffee]

And yet he still manages alternately to bore and annoy the shit out of me every time he's on screen.  For this viewer finding out Littlefinger is the puppet master on this show is a most unfortunate turn of events.  So, so miscast.  Ugh.  Ruined the whole big "reveal" for me. 

 

I think I might agree with this idea of miscasting.  That could certainly be it. 

I'm confused.  I'm almost underwhelmed.

 I haven't really been able to put my finger (little or otherwise) on what bugged me about the reveal of mastermind LF. 

 

Maybe it isn't so much the character of LF as the character of Lysa.  I need to rewatch the series with the LF/Lysa story in mind but as much as I can believe their backstory, I'm not sure the show gave us enough information to see Lysa in the light we are now to see her in. Her involvement seemed to me to be more of a "wft that was a stretch" than a "whoa, how amazingly badass is that!" 

 

What am I trying to say?

[bravelittletoaster]

I have just always, from the beginning of the series, thought Aiden Gillen stuck out like a sore thumb on this show.  I don't know what it is, but it's always felt to me like he's out of step with the tone, or mood, like he's just visiting from another universe.  And it's not against him personally--I thought he was great on the Wire.  Just, for me, a classic case of miscasting [but of course that's subjective.]  I guess I can try to make it work in that the character is standing apart from everyone else, pulling strings, but ugh, he always just takes me out of it for some reason and pulls focus in all the wrong ways.  He's never felt like he belongs in this ensemble.  And it doesn't help that this season his accent's all over the fucking map.  I would have preferred this reveal being about literally any other character.  But I also didn't feel like it was much of a reveal, significant though it may be, because Littlefinger's always acted like he's some big mastermind 5 steps ahead of everyone else.  It's not that exciting to see someone's cards when they've been telling you for years that they're holding them.  <shrug>  

 

Her involvement seemed to me to be more of a "wft that was a stretch" than a "whoa, how amazingly badass is that!"

Yeah, I agree.  I had the same reaction.  It was less "AHHHHHH" and more "um, ok?"  I know it's not retcon, but to me it felt like retcon.

Edited May 7, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[TooMuchCoffee]

I have just always, from the beginning of the series, thought Aiden Gillen stuck out like a sore thumb on this show.  I don't know what it is, but it's always felt to me like he's out of step with the tone, or mood, like he's just visiting from another universe.  And it's not against him personally--I thought he was great on the Wire.  Just, for me, a classic case of miscasting [but of course that's subjective.]  I guess I can try to make it work in that the character is standing apart from everyone else, pulling strings, but ugh, he always just takes me out of it for some reason and pulls focus in all the wrong ways.  He's never felt like he belongs in this ensemble.  And it doesn't help that this season his accent's all over the fucking map.  I would have preferred this reveal being about literally any other character.  But I also didn't feel like it was much of a reveal, significant though it may be, because Littlefinger's always acted like he's some big mastermind 5 steps ahead of everyone else.  It's not that exciting to see someone's cards when they've been telling you for years that they're holding them.  <shrug>  

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree.  I had the same reaction.  It was less "AHHHHHH" and more "um, ok?"  I know it's not retcon, but to me it felt like retcon.

 

I came thisclose to using the term retcon. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. 

[NoWillToResist]

I love that Podrick has been assigned to Brienne. She is the best person to see and appreciate his loyalty over his skills. Her trying to keep her patience and civil manner in the face of his mounting incompetence made me laugh. Two of the most loyal, decent people on the show, stuck together - awwww. But I find it weird that she's heading towards the Wall, thinking that Sansa would go there. Isn't the aunt closer? And more likely to be a safer place for a girl than the fucking WALL?

 

Cersei...expressed a non-selfish emotion? What is this trickery? For half a second, I almost felt bad for her. Of course, the feeling passed, but it did try to make an appearance.

 

Hodor!! Poor Hodor. Beaten, tormented, stabbed, chained up, then possessed by his young charge to commit a murder. Rude! That said, that murder was kick-ass. Ahem.

 

Nice to know that Dany is putting her world domination plans on hold in order to clean up the messes she's made.

 

Another example of Sansa sticking up for Tyrion and I awwwww'd. Sigh. I did not see that ship coming but I can't get off the damned boat. ;) 

 

But, Lyssa? Kudos to the actress because I was just SQUIRMING in all of her scenes. She just oozes ickiness. Hell, I was feeling bad for Littlefinger who had to kiss her, marry her, and then fuck her. Ugh. I'm sure he'll kill her in no time and then set his sights on Sansa, so I fear that little corner of Westeros will soon be a big, tall glass of NOPE (TM The Oatmeal) for me.

 

I just can't decide whether Littlefinger is just THAT good in the sack that he managed to convince her to do all this crazy shit and pine for him, or is she just that crazy and thus easy to manipulate?

 

I'm impressed with the Eyrie's (is that how it's spelled?) architects. Putting those buildings on those two peaks and managing to merge them above it (with convenient Moon Door of Death) in the middle? Must have been a bitch to build.

 

I cheered when the abused girl stabbed the head mutineer. I actually didn't care that she saved Jon in the process...I was just glad that she got a little bit of payback for his mistreatment of her. I admit that I found Jon's killshot pretty epic though. And I was waiting for Ghost to take his revenge on that Night's Watch dude. Death by direwolf does not look pleasant...

[CeeBeeGee]

 

It helps if you break them down by color, geography or other defining features.  For example

 

Meeren:

1. Black beard - Daario Naharis - leader of the mercenary army The Second Sons
2. Grey/White beard - Barristan Selmy - former Lord Commander of King Robert's Kingsguard, now Lord Commander of Daenery's Queensguard (though I think that's a Queensguard of 1 for now)
3. Red beard, with some grey - Ser Jorah Mormont - Effectively the Queen's Hand

 

King's Landing

1. Trim grey/white beard, so trim it's barely there - Tywin Lannister - Hand of the King
2. Long white beard, fakes walking with a stoop - Grand Maester Pycelle - Lannister bootlicker
3. Trim black beard and moustache with some grey - wears pants when making out - Prince Oberyn from Dorne
4. Loras Tyrell, Margaery's brother, heir to Highgarden and the Knight of the Flowers.  Though clean shaven, his beard has a multitude of nicknames, such as "Your Grace" or "Cersei".

 

 

Holy s***.  I am literally sitting here laughing out loud at the Loras comment.  Perfect.

 

I have to say, Lord Tywin's beard seems to have a lot of red in it.  The makeup team needs to cover that up better.

[Constantinople]

I love that Podrick has been assigned to Brienne. She is the best person to see and appreciate his loyalty over his skills. Her trying to keep her patience and civil manner in the face of his mounting incompetence made me laugh. Two of the most loyal, decent people on the show, stuck together - awwww.

What I loved about the Pod & Brienne scenes is that I could imagine Jaime saying exactly the same thing as Brienne, but perhaps a different tone.

Brienne/Jaime: Didn't they teach you how to ride a horse?

Pod: I took a vow

Brienne/Jaime: I release you from that vow.

Silence

Brienne/Jaime: That means you can go

Brienne/Jaime: Have you ever done anything remotely related to combat?

 

But I find it weird that she's heading towards the Wall, thinking that Sansa would go there. Isn't the aunt closer? And more likely to be a safer place for a girl than the fucking WALL?

I don't understand that either.

 

But, Lyssa? Kudos to the actress because I was just SQUIRMING in all of her scenes. She just oozes ickiness. Hell, I was feeling bad for Littlefinger who had to kiss her, marry her, and then fuck her. Ugh.

It's getting harder and harder to be the Worst Sister of Westeros.

Before this season, I would have given it to Cersei. Then, upon seeing her brother buring rapture, I thought Selyse had a firm grip on the title, even after Cersei accussed Tyrion of murder. Tyrion, after all, is not yet a heap of ash and bone.

But Lysa just blew them out of the water. I don't see how she can be topped.

[SourK]

I came thisclose to using the term retcon. I'm glad to hear I'm not alone. 

 

Yeah, it feels a little retconny to me, too. It doesn't really contradict what we know (as far as I remember), but because it seems to come ouf of nowhere, and because there was no real indication, during the first three seasons, that we were supposed to believe anything we were told about that murder was untrue, it does feel like they're retoractively changing their minds. It makes it feel a little bit like one of those conspiracy shows where, every time the action needs to change, the characters are just like, "Ha! Everything I said before this conversation was a lie, and part of the long game I was playing to make you confused!" They need to be careful with that.

 

Another example of Sansa sticking up for Tyrion and I awwwww'd. Sigh. I did not see that ship coming but I can't get off the damned boat. ;) 

 

...

 

I just can't decide whether Littlefinger is just THAT good in the sack that he managed to convince her to do all this crazy shit and pine for him, or is she just that crazy and thus easy to manipulate?

 

I liked Sansa and Tyrion as a (fakeish kind of) couple because they were nice to each other, and that's pretty rare on this show. From a story perspective, I like that the writers arranged it so that Joffrey's murder (which should be a joyous occasion) actually disrupts one of the only stable relationships between kind people and leaves them both stranded in bad situations again.

 

For Lysa and Littlefinger, my impression is that Littlefinger is to Lysa as Catelyn was to Littlefinger -- i.e., the object of a crazed obsession that began during their childhoods. After the way he treated Catelyn, it's even more delicious to me that he got stuck with Lysa in the end.

[marcee]

 

I just can't decide whether Littlefinger is just THAT good in the sack that he managed to convince her to do all this crazy shit and pine for him, or is she just that crazy and thus easy to manipulate?

Remember, he's also had a TON of experience running whores.

[nanners84]

I admit, Little Finger is a tad cartoony for the GoT world, but I kind of enjoy it. It's a really random reference, but the way he talks reminds me of Satan's lackey in the Terry Schiavo South Park episode, when he tells the politicians what to say, ending with an evil cackling, "Ack ack ack ..." ("No, you don't say that part, ack ack ack ..."). Just me? Yeah, I figured as much.

And I don't mind that explanation of events with LF orchestrating everything, though I agree he needs to come off as Tywin levels of shrewdness to believably pull it off. But I like the idea of someone without personal investment pitting groups against each other through emotionally fueling matters, it's so reflective of real politics.

[Patssy Stoned]

Well, I discovered this series about three weeks ago {thanks to On Demand} and while I'm current, I'm still a bit confused as to who is aligned where.  But I love the show!  Great entertainment, GORGEOUS settings and sets.

I'm hoping for {and I asked for} the three earlier seasons as a Mother's day gift {but I think I'm getting  couple of My Pilllows}.  I watched it all in one week, and I need a refresher.

 

I always have on closed captioning. People talk too fast.

[TooMuchCoffee]

On why Brienne isn't looking for Sansa in Aunt Lysa's cuckoo's nest...

the best reason I can think of is that everyone knows that the fine, upstanding Lannister loyalist, Lord Baelish, is there.  Littlefinger would, of course, never harbor a fugitive and enemy of the realm so if Sansa is foolish enough to go to the Eyrie, she will promptly be returned to King's Landing.  Instead, the assumption is that she'll beeline for what remains of the traitorous part of the family.

[bunnyblue]

 

But I find it weird that she's heading towards the Wall, thinking that Sansa would go there. Isn't the aunt closer? And more likely to be a safer place for a girl than the fucking WALL?

 

Yeah, I too found it strange that Brienne thinks Sansa is heading all the way north to the Wall. There was no hint that Brienne picked up a trail on Sansa; so, she's just guessing she'd go there instead of her aunts? Okay. 

 

What I find weird is that everyone who goes out hunting for the Stark kids thinks they would make their way to Jon at the Wall. Roose Bolton sent Locke to find Bran & Rickon there; Brienne is going there in search of Sansa; and wasn't Arya being taken to the Wall by the guy who smuggled her out of King's Landing? Do people think Jon is running a daycare center at Castle Black?

[Meredith Quill]

Well, I discovered this series about three weeks ago {thanks to On Demand} and while I'm current, I'm still a bit confused as to who is aligned where.  But I love the show!  Great entertainment, GORGEOUS settings and sets.

I'm hoping for {and I asked for} the three earlier seasons as a Mother's day gift {but I think I'm getting  couple of My Pilllows}.  I watched it all in one week, and I need a refresher.

 

I always have on closed captioning. People talk too fast.

Welcome! Always happy to see new victi...er, converts ;)

Any questions, ask away, someone or multiple someones will be happy to help, I'm sure.

[Lady S.]

Yoren was taking Arya home to Winterfell on the way to the Wall, Bran and Rickon were going to Jon on Maester Luwin's advice before the Reeds got involved, and I guess TooMuchCoffee's explanation works for Sansa. It is weird but Tyrion got to use the place as a hotel in s1, so I think the Starks of Winterfell would be welcome visitors if Ser Alliser weren't in charge now.

Anyway, here's Ghost chomping Rast, he looks pretty good-sized to me.

[Isazouzi]

On why Brienne isn't looking for Sansa in Aunt Lysa's cuckoo's nest...

the best reason I can think of is that everyone knows that the fine, upstanding Lannister loyalist, Lord Baelish, is there.  Littlefinger would, of course, never harbor a fugitive and enemy of the realm so if Sansa is foolish enough to go to the Eyrie, she will promptly be returned to King's Landing.  Instead, the assumption is that she'll beeline for what remains of the traitorous part of the family.

 

Would anyone believe that, really? I mean does anyone really trust LF to that point? You're probably right and I might be overthinking it because none of us trust LF. But I seem to remember that Cersei didn't either. But I can see how Brienne would think like that and go to the Wall instead.

 

Anyway, here's Ghost chomping Rast, he looks pretty good-sized to me.

 

Meh. He still looks too small to me, but I'll admit the size of the direwolves don't seem to be consistent. For instance, Robb's wolf (name?) looked huge next to Jaimie and Robb when Jaimie was prisoner, but his head didn't seem so big when mounted on Robb's body. Or maybe I remember it that way because I could barely watch that scene. And I'm not going back to check. The number of scenes that I'll never watch again is getting bigger and bigger...

[dr pepper]

I think they are using multiple stand ins for the wolves. At least they aren't using those fluffy gray shepherds that most shows use.

[Conan Troutman]

What exactly is Brienne's plan if she found Sansa at the Wall? Take her back to KL? Hardly. Where else could they go? Essos? 

[Isazouzi]

What exactly is Brienne's plan if she found Sansa at the Wall? Take her back to KL? Hardly. Where else could they go? Essos? 

 

She should take her to Dorne. Seems like a nice place!

[Constantinople]

What exactly is Brienne's plan if she found Sansa at the Wall?

 

After all she's been through, Sansa might be amenable to picking-up some self-defense skills from Brienne.

Nothing like slicing a man in two with a broadsword, but something more ladylike, like a dagger (too bad they don't have stilettos in Westeros; Sansa could be deadly with one of those).

 

Where else could they go? Essos?

 

Sansa's late, great departed brother has in-laws in Volantis, but I don't know

• if Sansa or Brienne know about this
• if Robb's in-laws know about this and, if they do
• If they'd be willing to do anything for the Starks

[NoWillToResist]

 

What I find weird is that everyone who goes out hunting for the Stark kids thinks they would make their way to Jon at the Wall. Roose Bolton sent Locke to find Bran & Rickon there; Brienne is going there in search of Sansa; and wasn't Arya being taken to the Wall by the guy who smuggled her out of King's Landing? Do people think Jon is running a daycare center at Castle Black?

 

I think it's kind of cute that the general populace seem to think that Jon - the bastard - would shelter and protect the legitimate kids. Guess the Stark bond is famous. :)

 

 

What exactly is Brienne's plan if she found Sansa at the Wall? Take her back to KL? Hardly. Where else could they go? Essos?

 

Maybe across the sea somewhere? Tyrion thought Shae would be out of reach somewhere over there. Heck, maybe Brienne could go pledge herself to Dany and give Jorah and the boys a run for their money.

[Constantinople]

What I find weird is that everyone who goes out hunting for the Stark kids thinks they would make their way to Jon at the Wall. Roose Bolton sent Locke to find Bran & Rickon there.

I think that makes sense since Bran and Rickon were already in the North. It would be safer for them to travel to the Wall then head south and risk running into Iron Islanders or anyone still running around the Riverlands.

 

Brienne is going there in search of Sansa

That I don't understand since I'd think the Vale would be closer to King's Landing than the Wall. I'd also think Brienne would know that Lysa Arryn is Sansa's aunt, or if she didn't, that Jaime would have told her. Perhaps Brienne is thinking Sansa would want to flee the realm of politics, which would mean skipping the Vale and going to the Wall.

 

and wasn't Arya being taken to the Wall by the guy who smuggled her out of King's Landing?

Yoren was using the Castle Black Express as cover to take Arya to Winterfell, where he could stop along the way. That was before Winterfell was trashed and Yoren could expect there would be family there to take care of Ayra.

 

Do people think Jon is running a daycare center at Castle Black?

If the Night's Watch is going to fight the White Walkers and win, they'll have to provide competitive child care services. Right now the Walkers are winning that battle hands down.

[Isazouzi]

Or she could take her to her home, the Sapphire Isles, or whatever the name was? Where are they and who does Brienne's family pledge allegiance to?

Edited May 8, 2014 by Isazouzi

[Popples]

Or she could take her to her home, the Sapphire Isles, or whatever the name was? Where are they and who does Brienne's family pledge allegiance to?

 

Tarth is pledged to the Stormlands (it's a tiny island off the coast), the Baratheon seat, which is why she was with Renly. So, technically she should be pledged to Stannis now, I guess.

 

I don't know if it's spoilery, but I got it from on the map on the HBO site.

[halgia]

That I don't understand since I'd think the Vale would be closer to King's Landing than the Wall.

 

Yeah, it's way closer. The HBO site has a map (which the Unsullied won't look at but probably most unspoiled are fine with).

[Isazouzi]

 

Tarth is pledged to the Stormlands (it's a tiny island off the coast), the Baratheon seat, which is why she was with Renly. So, technically she should be pledged to Stannis now, I guess.

 

I don't know if it's spoilery, but I got it from on the map on the HBO site.

 

 

Poor Sansa (again) if she was taken to Stannis. I really think the best place for her is Dorne.

 

Yeah, it's way closer. The HBO site has a map (which the Unsullied won't look at but probably most unspoiled are fine with).

 

But we've seen in this episode that the access to the Eyrie is far from easy. Brienne could always send word that she's looking for Sansa on behalf of her dead mother, but knowing crazy Lysa, it might not end well...

[Colored Francie]

I don't think Baelish will kill Lysa and Robin, but he will have to keep her quiet (in terms of secrets, since she's not quiet otherwise...). Even as remote as they are, I just don't think you can kill your highborn new bride right after you get married. Her troops would probably murder him almost immediately, even if he's technically the new lord.

[CeeBeeGee]

I liked Sansa and Tyrion as a (fakeish kind of) couple because they were nice to each other, and that's pretty rare on this show. From a story perspective, I like that the writers arranged it so that Joffrey's murder (which should be a joyous occasion) actually disrupts one of the only stable relationships between kind people and leaves them both stranded in bad situations again.

 

it was and it wasn't stable.  Yes, they are two fundamentally decent people and yes, Tyrion had privately sworn to honor Sansa's wishes over whether or not to consummate but I was always very aware that Tywin was not just urging but ORDERING Tyrion to get to business.  It really bothered me.  I like that they stood up for each other post-Joffreycide but a part of me is relieved that Sansa is away from that.  Not that she's much better off.  Man, Littlefinger sure does like his redheads!

[Travy1991]

 

 

Serious question about Essos, though. Is Dany now living in wherever the hell place Shae comes from? Or are they conicidentally dressing the same? Or are they actually not dressed the same, and I'm bad at noticing the details of dresses (all of these things are possible)?

 

 

No, Shae is from Lorath, which is one of the Free Cities. Westeros is roughly the same shape as South America but based on medieval European countries, specifically Britain with elements of Ireland, France, Spain and Northern/Eastern Europe. Essos is roughly the same shape as Eurasia. Essos is roughly based off historic Southern European city states, parts of Asia and North Africa. I would really recommend buying the Blu-rays of all three seasons if you can and watching the Histories and Lores videos because they reveal so much about the worlds of Westeros and Essos. If you can't afford them or you're just a cheapskate, you can also watch them on YouTube.

 

Here's a breakdown of Essos as shown from the supplementary maps. The spoiler tag below indicates SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION that the show has provided on the history and geography of Westeros and Essos. It does not spoil future events from the book but it may touch on background information which may or may not be revealed at a later date in the show.

 

In the west of Essos, you have the Nine Free Cities. The Nine Free Cities are independent city states that do quite a bit of trade with the Seven Kingdoms. They are the part of Essos that Westerosi people are most familiar with. Four of the cities are on the coasts of western Essos (Pentos, Myr, Volantis and Bravoos), three of the cities are islands in close proximity to western Essos (Lys, Lorath and Tyrosh) and two of the cities are slightly more inland than the rest (Qohor and Norvos). We've met various characters from most of these cities. Braavos is probably the most prolific free city in the show as the Iron Bank is here, Syrio Forel is from here and Jaqen H'ghar asks Arya to join him in Braavos at the end of Season 2. It also looks like we'll see it onscreen next episode. Volantis is the home city of Talisa. Myr is the home city of Thoros. We already seen Pentos onscreen - it is the city where Viserys and Daenerys were based in the first episode. I don't think we've met anyone from Qohor or Norvos. Tyrosh is the home city of Daario. Lys is home to Varys, Doreah and Salladhor Saan. Lorath is home to Shae and Jaqen claims to be from here too (i.e. all the German actors).

 

South of the Free Cities, you have a ruined volcanic peninsula known as Valyria. Valyria was once a quiet shepherding community under the thumb of the Ghiscari Empire. They discovered dragons among a chain of volcanoes known as The Fourteen Fires. Somehow the Valyrians managed to tame the dragons and they grew into a large empire themselves, taking down the Ghiscari Empire. The Valyrians were famed for their sorcery, their dragons and their weapon-making. The Targaryens are originally from Valyria. One of the ancient Targaryens had a prophetic dream that Valyria would be destroyed and so they set out with their dragons to the island of Dragonstone of the east coast of Westeros (where Stannis is currently based). Sure enough, either volcanic eruptions (or sorcery) destroyed Valyria in an event known as The Doom. The peninsula was partially submerged underwater and the area is now believed to be cursed. All the dragons died out on Valyria as well as knowledge of spells and steel-making (for the most part). The Targaryens were the only ones with living dragons which they then used to conquer the Seven Kingdoms and unify into one realm. The surviving Valyrians moved north to the Free Cities.

 

Going back up north and east of the Free Cities, you have the Dothraki Lands. The Dothraki obviously inhabit these lands - a vast expanse of grassy plains known as The Dothraki Sea. Towards the end of the Dothraki Sea lies their city of Vaes Dothrak where Dany is camped out for the majority of Season 1.

 

Lying directly south of The Dothraki Sea are the lands of Lhazar which is made up primarily of shepherding communities. This is where Dany rescues Mirri Maz Duur and then Mirri kills Dany's unborn child and turns Drogo into a vegetable. It is also the birthplace of Dany's dragons.

 

South east of Lhazar across a broad desert known as The Red Waste, you have the city of Qarth which we seen in Season 2. Qarth is a pretty mystical place as we know. East of that lies the city of Asshai and The Shadow Lands where Melisandre is from.

 

West of Lhazar and east of Valyria, lies the region known as Slaver's Bay. Slaver's Bay is where Ghiscari influence is the highest and where slavery is practised. The three Slaver's Bay cities as shown through Dany's journey in Season 3 and 4 are Astapor, Yunkai and Meereen. 

Edited May 10, 2014 by Travy1991

[Isazouzi]

No, Shae is from Lorath, which is one of the Free Cities. Westeros is roughly the same shape as South America but based on medieval European countries, specifically Britain with elements of Ireland, France, Spain and Northern/Eastern Europe.

 

This is very interesting. Could you tell us (maybe not in this thread though) which elements you're talking about? I know G.R.R Martin got inspired by the war of the roses and a good chunk of Britain history, but I'd be interested to know more. Without spoilers of course. Is that too tricky?

[Travy1991]

This is very interesting. Could you tell us (maybe not in this thread though) which elements you're talking about? I know G.R.R Martin got inspired by the war of the roses and a good chunk of Britain history, but I'd be interested to know more. Without spoilers of course. Is that too tricky?

 

Sure, I created a brand new thread for any questions you might have about the background history, mythology and geography of Westeros and Essos while still remaining in the dark about future events. You can read my response here: http://forums.previously.tv/topic/6804-history-and-geography-of-game-of-thrones-supplementary-show-spoilers-only/

[The Companion]

Though Lysa is family, they are clearly not close. After all, Sansa introduced herself. The assumption that she would head towards her brother (and closer to her home) is probably a good one. I suspect that is what she would have done.

I agree that Littlefinger feels smarmy but not like the mastermind he has been revealed to be.

I was happy to see Dany stay where she is to learn how to rule. It would not have felt authentic for her to leave a power vacuum and have it all work out swimmingly. 

Edited August 4, 2017 by The Companion