Most and Least Favorite Past Contestants

[kikaha]

 

There's a scene where she "charms" Coach in the water by flattering him and saying "I don't fear has ever controlled you" and then goes into a confessional and totally bashes him.

 

Like what Natalie did this season with Jon.  Said all sorts of nice things to his face, gained his trust, but was lying to him the whole time, bashed him in confessionals, and was merely setting him up for the big blindside.  

 

I have no problem with that.  It's a key part of Survivor.  Parvati is quite good at it, too. 

[Oholibamah]

That might be true, but I think one of the reasons a lot of people dislike Parvati is because they can very clearly see that her "charm" is really inauthentic. There's a scene where she "charms" Coach in the water by flattering him and saying "I don't fear has ever controlled you" and then goes into a confessional and totally bashes him. I think some people can tell, even without the confessionals, that what she says is mostly fake and full of crap. 

 

I always thought it was interesting that the players that found her the most charming seem to be the ones that are most insecure and most in need of attention. Players like Coach and Russell need constant attention and validation. I don't think they can detect if it's authentic or not and if they could, I don't even think they would care. If Parvati is smart enough to pick up on this and choose to work with these people because her "charm" can work best on them then good for her, but I always thought it was very telling that her charm never worked on guys who seemed to be smart or mature or more secure with themselves. 

 

She also gets a lot of credit for her double idol play in H vs V. I thought that was an awesome moment and really exciting, but I've read that the reason she did that is because she knew Amanda so well outside of the game and could tell Amanda was lying to her about who the Heroes were voting for. Using both idols was brave of Parvati, but is it really that impressive that she could tell when one her good friends was lying to her? I think that would be expected. It would be more impressive if she had pulled that off with a stranger or another player. Which is why, even though I do enjoy All-Star seasons, Survivor is really a game meant to be played with strangers. 

 

In Parvati's defense, Amanda just might be the worst liar on the face of God's green earth.

 

Which still helped her with the Double Idol play, but I don't think her relationship with Amanda was what made her realize she was lying - ANYBODY in Amanda's shoes would have lied. It was simple deduction: Danielle had Immunity and Russell had an Idol that he would conceivably pass to Parvati if needed. This leaves Jerri and Sandra exposed.

 

The added genius to her move is that, had the Heroes in fact been targeting her, then Parvati is now safe if it goes to rocks.

[Lantern7]

I liked Shii Ann. I didn't even mind her calling herself "Shii Devil." Heck, I even tried to improve on it with "Shiiablo" on the TWoP forums. She came across as very aware, and I loved it when she held off her own elimination in S8, celebrating wildly afterward. I vaguely recall meeting her at TARCon 5 . . . I just found this picture I took of her ten years ago.

[BigRedCheese]

I really liked Shii Ann as well, I felt especially bad for her when she ended up on the wrong end of that merge fake out. I really felt bad for her when the others wouldn't share their food with her, that seemed especially petty. Even with all the high school level slights she had to put up with, I admired that she took it all like a good sport, and fought her heart out.

[KimberStormer]

I always thought it was interesting that the players that found her the most charming seem to be the ones that are most insecure and most in need of attention. Players like Coach and Russell need constant attention and validation. I don't think they can detect if it's authentic or not and if they could, I don't even think they would care. If Parvati is smart enough to pick up on this and choose to work with these people because her "charm" can work best on them then good for her, but I always thought it was very telling that her charm never worked on guys who seemed to be smart or mature or more secure with themselves. 

 

Well, and on Cirie, Amanda, Alexis, Sandra, and Courtney, for example.  And Parvati never worked with Coach,  he was against her because he thought she was lazy and entitled just like every other pretty girl he ever met on Survivor (though she won him over with good play and, I suspect, especially immunity wins).  What I'm really talking about is people who've met her at like charity events, not players--who have often reported that she just draws people in.  And my real point is that, despite the fact that people find Kim boring, I think she's got that quality too.  Which has nothing to do with stringing along desperate boys, or whatever.  If they were dudes, it would be called "natural leadership" or something.  (I think JT and Tom had this quality too.)  Instead it's "fake slut" and "boring gamebot" and that's annoying.

 

I think about this alot because it seems to be a more or less inborn quality and I don't have it at all.  I can't get people to listen to me when it's their actual job.  So I'm kind of in awe of Kim and Parv, my two favorite players.

Edited December 21, 2014 by KimberStormer

[Miss Scarlet]

I think Parvati did try to work with Coach and swing him and Jerri over to her alliance. I might be misremembering, but I think that's where the whole scene in the water came from. In terms of the inauthenticity thing, I just meant to explain that that's why I think that's why a lot of viewers don't like Parvati. I think (and hope) that if men were charming in the same way (i.e. to a person's face, but then mean in confessionals) they would be called out as being inauthentic as well. Lots of fans have called out Boston Rob for this. I like Kim a lot and I've seen her being called charismatic and charming, but rarely called out as fake about it.

 

Parvati's charm probably works better in person simply because then the flattery is directed at you. It might also be because at this point she has a reputation for being charming and that reputation almost pre-forms people's opinions or creates self-fulfilling prophecies in her interactions.

 

I think this is also speaks to the difference between charisma and charm. Charisma is just pizzazz that someone has and it's just there. They don't try to put it on. It just emanates from them. Whereas being charming is very specific to the person you're talking to, trying to get something from, etc. So that's why the people being charmed by Parvati on the show get it, but those sitting at home think it's like being charismatic and  expect to see it, but can't really because it's not directed at them.

 

I think being charismatic is an inborn skill, but being charming is something that pretty much anyone can do.

[Kromm]

I think Parvati did try to work with Coach and swing him and Jerri over to her alliance. I might be misremembering, but I think that's where the whole scene in the water came from. In terms of the inauthenticity thing, I just meant to explain that that's why I think that's why a lot of viewers don't like Parvati. I think (and hope) that if men were charming in the same way (i.e. to a person's face, but then mean in confessionals) they would be called out as being inauthentic as well. Lots of fans have called out Boston Rob for this. I like Kim a lot and I've seen her being called charismatic and charming, but rarely called out as fake about it.

 

Parvati's charm probably works better in person simply because then the flattery is directed at you. It might also be because at this point she has a reputation for being charming and that reputation almost pre-forms people's opinions or creates self-fulfilling prophecies in her interactions.

 

I think this is also speaks to the difference between charisma and charm. Charisma is just pizzazz that someone has and it's just there. They don't try to put it on. It just emanates from them. Whereas being charming is very specific to the person you're talking to, trying to get something from, etc. So that's why the people being charmed by Parvati on the show get it, but those sitting at home think it's like being charismatic and  expect to see it, but can't really because it's not directed at them.

 

I think being charismatic is an inborn skill, but being charming is something that pretty much anyone can do.

And yet it's a complete different disconnect from the people who seem to automatically disregard Kim as a top tier player (or in Jeff Probst's case of her even existing), simply because her charisma overcame the obstacles so completely we didn't see it failing.  I understand people hating the season she was on as a result, but the way it's led to her being totally disrespected as a personality who played the game is the problem for me.  Again, it's basically faulting someone for playing too GOOD a game.

 

Whereas Parvati (as much as I like her game overall) basically gets recognition for where her game failed (or at least eventually overcoming those areas to win anyway).

Edited December 22, 2014 by Kromm

[Trick Question]

Think about how ridiculous it would seem to suggest lets say... a professional football player... was less of a great football player simply because they didn't showboat and entertain the crowds.  But just scored points in a workmanlike unflashy fashion. That's the treatment Kim seems to get when people talk about how her in terms of her season being boring.  They're punishing her for the lack of adequate competition, also.

 

If you move the analogy from football to basketball, this is literally the same criticism that has been directed at Tim Duncan over the years.  He's one of the seven or eight best players in NBA history and he's led the San Antonio Spurs to five championships, but the haters call him "boring" since he sticks to a very fundamentally-sound game (his nickname is actually 'The Big Fundamental') and doesn't draw attention to himself, keeping things very low-key in terms of endorsements, commercials or even interviews.

 

Given that Kim hails from San Antonio, I can imagine she'd like no better compliment than being called the 'Tim Duncan Of Survivor.'

[kikaha]

For me Kim is a great player, the opposite of boring.  I believe she played against very poor competition though.  To continue the basketball analogy from above, she played against the equivalent of a high school JV team, while Parvati played against the NBA. 

 

Zero question in my mind that Kim belongs in the NBA.  But is she an all-star?  I'd love to see her play again, against other top contestants, to see how she does. 

[Kromm]

For me Kim is a great player, the opposite of boring.  I believe she played against very poor competition though.  To continue the basketball analogy from above, she played against the equivalent of a high school JV team, while Parvati played against the NBA. 

 

Zero question in my mind that Kim belongs in the NBA.  But is she an all-star?  I'd love to see her play again, against other top contestants, to see how she does. 

You know.... I think the Jedi mind trick Kim did on her allies was the big thing though, and that aspect wasn't dependent much on the competition.  The lack of competition was responsible for the other alliance falling apart, but the way Kim was basically able to have the others do exactly what she told them, without them minding in the least, and in fact being HAPPY she got to the end, was inherent in her and not really about strategy.

[Nightbaron]

I liked Shii Ann. I didn't even mind her calling herself "Shii Devil." Heck, I even tried to improve on it with "Shiiablo" on the TWoP forums. She came across as very aware, and I loved it when she held off her own elimination in S8, celebrating wildly afterward. I vaguely recall meeting her at TARCon 5 . . . I just found this picture I took of her ten years ago.

 

Ah, meeting Shii-Ann at TARCon 5, great memories!

 

Topic:  My least favorite player of all-time still remains Russell Hantz, watching him makes me actively angry.  Same with Colton.

 

My favorites are many; Rob M. and Rob C., Cirie, Parvati, Sandra, Yul, JT (despite his poor showing in HvV), Spencer and now Natalie Anderson.

[ToastnBacon]

I can't stand Rupert, or anyone else who plays the game while spouting honor and integrity.

His thing is supposedly being genuine, but the guy is one big walking self manufactured character.

He never seems to be a contender to make it far in the game, except as a goat with a ratty beard and tie dye shirt.

Coach and his warrior tai chi nonsense is over-the-top idiotic too.

Still, a couple of my favorite moments in the show have come from these two players. Rupert with his hole in the ground shelter fiasco, and Tyson telling a crying Coach to do his Tai Chi in private, stop telling boring stories, and quit wearing feathers in his hair.

[Scratch]

Some favorites: 

 

Rich Hatch, the one who got it rolling. He'd probably never be able to win again on another season of the show, but he laid out the basic framework of how to win. Ever since, most all of the winners have just tried variations on the basic idea of alliance building.

 

Matthew von Ertfelda, in some ways, S6 The Amazon is one of the great seasons to watch. We weren't getting overwhelmed with mactors yet and there was still a lot of naivete in many of the players. Of course a lot of Matt's story was orchestrated in large part by Rob Cesterino, but it's really funny if you watch the season and see how the editors play upon a theme of Dr Frankestein (Rob) and Frankenstein's monster, Matt. There's one hilarious confessional by Matt which shows Matt becoming aware of what Rob has been teaching him inadvertently. 

 

Sandra Diaz-Twine, first two time winner and the first master of creating the just-so-ít's-not-me-being-voted-out alliance. Also gets major props for harassing and hassling Russell Hantz, the most odious contestant ever.

 

Yau Man, he's never won, but he was smart and incredibly entertaining.

 

Kim Spradlin, an incredibly dominant performance of charm. You almost get the feeling like she could stab a person in the back and the person stabbed would thank her. 

 

Sue Hawk, she gave the original best vicious jury member rant. It was so classic and along with Richard Hatch's win, was probably a key part of showing a part of the show dynamic that makes the show so entertaining. 

 

The Despised:

 

Colby Donaldson, he's probably not a bad guy, but Probst's adoration of Colby just makes me grind my teeth.

 

Benjamin Wade, I refuse to call Benji by a nickname he chose for himself. Although he was an entertaining story in his first season and he did deliver one of the classic drop dead funny moments at one of the reward challenges, which involved the players throwing balls underhanded to try to break tiles. I think it was Brendan who said that none of them had ever done anything like this in their lives, at which point Benji coughs, raises his hand, and says, "I have." That was classic Benjie attitude, "I have done everything and have always done it better than anyone else.

 

Russell Hantz, one season would have been plenty of him. Then his bitching and whining about how he lost because the people he put on the jury didn't understand how awesome he was for being such a putrid and vile jerk was just terrible. 

 

Survivor Casting, because of the Hantzes. I can forgive them for 2 seasons of Russell Hantz, but a 3rd season and then 2 season of Brandon Hantz was just so f'ing wrong.

[ToastnBacon]

Whatever happened to Sue Hawk's lawsuit over Richard rubbing his pee pee against her during that challenge?

The way she stormed off the show, it seemed that she was thinking that she could sue CBS and Richard.

I'll agree that she was entertaining to watch, but there is no way I would call a blow hard like Sue a favorite.

Favorite imbecile, perhaps.

[BigRedCheese]

I bailed on two or three seasons of Survivor around ten years ago, can't remember why exactly, but I spent the long weekend watching season 12, and I have to add Terry Deitz to my favorites list. He took challenge beast to a new level, wish he would have won instead of Aras. I don't know how this guy hasn't been brought back for an all star season.

[Donny Ketchum]

I bailed on two or three seasons of Survivor around ten years ago, can't remember why exactly, but I spent the long weekend watching season 12, and I have to add Terry Deitz to my favorites list. He took challenge beast to a new level, wish he would have won instead of Aras. I don't know how this guy hasn't been brought back for an all star season.

Because not as many liked him as you think.  Very few respected how he badly leveraged his idol and then pretty much let his alliance die.  That's why he hasn't been brought back.

[choclatechip45]

 

Because not as many liked him as you think.  Very few respected how he badly leveraged his idol and then pretty much let his alliance die.  That's why he hasn't been brought back.

Agreed plus he fit the same role as Tom who was one of the most popular winners ever. Also, if you ever re-watch the reunion show  it's all about Cirie.

Edited December 28, 2014 by choclatechip45

[BigRedCheese]

Yeah, I agree that he could have used the idol to greater effect at the merge, but that was still a new thing then. I did see the reunion show, and it was all about Cirie, guess I'm the odball, I didn't like her in her all star season, and watching this season didn't change my mind. I did some googling, and apparently he was supposed to be on Micronesia, but got pulled at the last minute.

[choclatechip45]

I'm a big Cirie fan and the only reason I mentioned the Reunion show was because I recently re-watched and was surprised how much of it was about Cirie. I completely forgot about that and it makes so much more sense why they put her on the Hereos tribe.

[BigRedCheese]

I don't hate her or anything, she just kind of rubs me the wrong way. One thing I found funny watching this season now, is that they're all worried about the idol being in play, Aras knows that if it's played, he will be voted out, but none of them think of splitting the votes. So nobody really knew how to handle the idol at this point. Oh well, I was really impressed with Terry, but I found out that he's hosting some show on the Military Channel now, so I doubt he'll be back again at this point. Also, he would be in his mid to late 50's by now, so he probably wouldn't be as good at the challenges anymore.

[ByaNose]

I'm one of the few that really likes/liked Terry. He was awesome in challenges and the Terry/Aras rivalry made the show so much fun. I know he almost got asked backa few times but he is older now. He's ancient in the Survivor world but I would love to see how he plays. Heck! I'd like to see what he looks like now. I think he's young than Keith & Probst so he surely could still play physically.

[KimberStormer]

One thing I found funny watching this season now, is that they're all worried about the idol being in play, Aras knows that if it's played, he will be voted out, but none of them think of splitting the votes. So nobody really knew how to handle the idol at this point.

 

Yep, it wasn't until Cao Boi the next season that anyone figured out that Plan Voodoo, aka the split vote, could beat the idol.  (And I have always believed that's the real reason Yul voted him out immediately.)  I love how he came up with it, it came to him in a bizarre prophetic dream!  Cao Boi, a very underrated innovator in Survivor history.

[snoopythecat]

These are based only on the seasons I've seen in their entirety.

Favorites: Kim, Sandra, Natalie A., Parvati, Tom, Ian, Stephen, Cirie, Andrea, Cochran.

Least Favorites: RUSSELL, Brandon, Phillip, Coach, Tyson, Corinne, Ben (Samoa), Shannon (Nicaragua), NaOnka, Andrew Savage, John Rocker, Rupert, Shemar, Fairplay, and -- of course -- Colton.

On the Fence: Rob, Penner, Tony, Ami, Hatch, Tarzan, Stephenie (because I've heard she morphed into a bitch in Guatemala), Ozzy (a marvel to watch competing in challenges or scaling a coconut tree; strategizing and socializing, not so much).

People I like that most people seem to dislike: Sugar, Bob, Twila, most of the cast of One World (except for Colton, Troyzan, Matt, Mike, and Alicia). Lill gets a sympathy like from me due to the way she was treated by her tribe early on (and I feel she was screwed over by the producers essentially casting her in the role of the Scout leader who would have to -- gasp! -- lie to people in order to play the game). I also was fine with the stunt casting of Jimmy Johnson and Lisa Whelchel because, unlike Rocker, they were both legitimate fans of the game, and they were reasonably likable during their seasons. And I liked the Twinnies even on TAR (except for the money-stealing, which I like to think is something they would only ever do in a competition for a million dollars and not in their everyday lives).

People I dislike that most people seem to like: JT (he's always rubbed me the wrong way, and his parting comment on HvV -- "Never, ever trust a woman," after getting screwed over by the decidedly not-female Russell -- confirmed my opinion of him), Malcolm (even he admits he was surprised at the positive edit he got in his first season), Spencer (I might feel differently if I hadn't read his bio on the CBS website), Eddie (any guy who so clearly evaluates women solely by how "hot" they are is dead to me), Jim Rice (I HATED the way the Savaii tribe treated Cochran and didn't blame him one bit for flipping on them -- and Jim was the worst offender in my opinion, because he, like Cochran, knew all too well what it felt like to be excluded from the cool kids table and therefore should have had more empathy for Cochran).

[choclatechip45]

 

JT (he's always rubbed me the wrong way, and his parting comment on HvV -- "Never, ever trust a woman," after getting screwed over by the decidedly not-female Russell -- confirmed my opinion of him)

I didn't like Stephen or JT during their original season or JT during Heroes vs Villans. I think they are both pretty overrated to be honest. I might be biased because Taj was my favorite. I found all sexist undertones from the Heroes men really gross during that season. Which was really unfortunate since I found Colby and Rupert both funny in their original seasons for different reasons.

[snoopythecat]

I think my liking Stephen is due to my fondness for underdogs. I was angry that he basically did all the strategic heavy lifting, yet somehow JT got all the credit. Debbie even said in one of her postmortem interviews that she was shocked watching the show and seeing how much of the strategy came from Stephen, because they had all thought JT was the mastermind. The way everyone that season was falling all over themselves to hand the game to JT made me want to vomit. Hell, it was obvious at FTC that even Stephen himself was infatuated and didn't think he deserved the win over JT.

I.hate to admit it, but part of my INTENSE distaste for JT has to do with geopolitical prejudices and personal baggage. I'm not proud of it, but as a lesbian, I was inherently distrustful of someone who identified so strongly as a good ole Southern boy -- because of how frequently homophobia spoke with a Southern accent, especially back in 2008 before the tide really turned in America. It's worth noting that there have been a lot of Southerners on Survivor, and I haven't had the same intensely negative reaction to all of them that I had to JT. Some, like Natalie White, I liked quite a lot. I think what bugged me with JT was that the very quality that I found off-putting -- the Southern charm -- was what most people without my baggage just looooooooved about him.

I generally am not a huge fan of overdogs to begin with. I'm wary of alpha males (again, because of personal baggage). Both of these are a large part of why I'm on the fence about Tony and Rob. And I also HATE any situation where one person gets the credit for another person's work.

Oddly, I do like Tom Westman, despite his being both an alpha male and an overdog. Again, I think geopolitical prejudices play a role -- I live 25 miles from NYC, and an Irish firefighter from New York is a familiar, comforting character type to me, while a cattle rancher from Alabama is a character type with which I have no personal familiarity to draw from and mostly negative impressions from the media.

I sincerely apologize if this offends anyone, especially anyone from JT's part of the country. As I said, I'm not proud of my own prejudices, and I am working on them. (Off the top of my head, I like Natalie White, I like Tina, I mostly like Keith, and I liked Jane until she showed herself to be the female Rupert. And my dislike of Russell and Shannon is due to their individual personalities, but where they're from.) But I think we all bring our own personal baggage to our interpretation of both the players and the game.

[choclatechip45]

 

Oddly, I do like Tom Westman, despite his being both an alpha male and an overdog. Again, I think geopolitical prejudices play a role -- I live 25 miles from NYC, and an Irish firefighter from New York is a familiar, comforting character type to me, while a cattle rancher from Alabama is a character type with which I have no personal familiarity to draw from and mostly negative impressions from the media.

Interesting, since Tom's nemesis was a gay guy. I think you hit the nail on Stephen's FTC it has to be than Amanda I mean who starts off by saying they should vote for the person who grew the most while out there in season 18! I could see maybe in the first couple of season, maybe I would of liked Stephen more if he didn't hand JT the game. I was actually surprised I didn't like him since I had liked Rob C and Rafe beforehand who fit the same casting archetype.

[snoopythecat]

Ian is gay? I assumed he was straight, because his interactions with Katie suggested to me that he was attracted to her and she used that to manipulate him. Or did you mean Coby? I kind of thought Coby alienated himself from most of his tribe and sealed his own fate. He kind of reminds me of Reed, if Reed had been playing with a more competent group of players that didn't include his boyfriend.

The impression I got from Stephen is that, like most players, he brought his own baggage to the game. In his case, I suspect his baggage was that, as a skinny, bookish, unathletic nerd, he'd spent most of his life feeling inferior to (and perhaps being bullied by) strapping, athletic, charming guys like JT -- and that he had a kind of Wayne's World/"I'm not worthy!" reaction when JT accepted him as a closer friend and ally. This was decidedly NOT conducive to arguing with any real conviction that he deserved the million dollars more than JT. All speculation on my part, of course, but it seems to be the subtext in the narrative presented to us my the editing.

[choclatechip45]

 

Ian is gay? I assumed he was straight, because his interactions with Katie suggested to me that he was attracted to her and she used that to manipulate him. Or did you mean Coby? I kind of thought Coby alienated himself from most of his tribe and sealed his own fate. He kind of reminds me of Reed, if Reed had been playing with a more competent group of players that didn't include his boyfriend.

I meant Coby. Coby did have a big chip on his shoulder I alway wondered if that was because he was a gay guy in a small Texas town and had lot of issues with people like Tom growing up. Granted that is all speculation on my part.  I thought his relationship with Jen after the show was really sweet. I remember reading a blog he wrote on RHAW about his friendship with Jen and it brought tears to my eyes.

 

The impression I got from Stephen is that, like most players, he brought his own baggage to the game. In his case, I suspect his baggage was that, as a skinny, bookish, unathletic nerd, he'd spent most of his life feeling inferior to (and perhaps being bullied by) strapping, athletic, charming guys like JT -- and that he had a kind of Wayne's World/"I'm not worthy!" reaction when JT accepted him as a closer friend and ally. This was decidedly NOT conducive to arguing with any real conviction that he deserved the million dollars more than JT. All speculation on my part, of course, but it seems to be the subtext in the narrative presented to us my the editing.

That actually makes a lot of sense. I wonder how he would of done on the other tribe. Since that tribe was full of alpha guys like Coach, Tyson and Brendon. To be fair to him I really wasn't into Tocantines I felt really burned out on the show at that point.

Edited January 4, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Kromm]

I think there's a nice subtopic here on people who our impressions of changed a lot between seasons, and when we think it was editing, vs. them deliberately changing their behavior vs. them simply being more mature.

 

I mean I loathe the whole returnee thing overall, but we've been stuck with it--and likely will be always in some form (All-Star seasons at the very least, and very likely Fans vs. Faves again at some point... even if they seem to have given up on the "two return as Captains" thing).  So accepting that, I do find it interesting WHY some people seem different.

 

For me there were big changes in Boston Rob, for example.  The more he came back, the more easygoing he seemed.  Maybe it was as simple as having money in the bank already (not just Amber's money, but also the money they got for stuff like their wedding stuff all being on TV).  Maybe it was having kids at that point he'd have to explain being a dick to.  I think it was a conscious choice, but not specifically a strategic one--it just worked out that it eventually DID help him strategically, in the Redemption Island season, because it wound up contrasting him with Russell Hantz.

 

I also came around a lot on Parvati between Cook Islands and Micronesia.  With her I think a big part of that was her deliberately adjusting her behavior for strategic reasons. But another big part of it was the editing too.  In Cook Islands the editing was all too willing to play her flirt strategy as "another girl uses her wiles to get her way".  By Micronesia, the editors had to deal with the fact that she was back as a Favorite and show more of her brain (also them being ahead of the viewing audience in knowing what was coming they also needed to show in the edits of the episodes leading up to that that she had brains so viewers would get how she won eventually--whereas in Cook Islands, her coming in sixth place didn't necessitate that).  By the time Heroes vs. Villains came along, it was hard to think of her as a villain, really--at least for me. 

[choclatechip45]

 

I also came around a lot on Parvati between Cook Islands and Micronesia.  With her I think a big part of that was her deliberately adjusting her behavior for strategic reasons. But another big part of it was the editing too.  In Cook Islands the editing was all too willing to play her flirt strategy as "another girl uses her wiles to get her way".  By Micronesia, the editors had to deal with the fact that she was back as a Favorite and show more of her brain (also them being ahead of the viewing audience in knowing what was coming they also needed to show in the edits of the episodes leading up to that that she had brains so viewers would get how she won eventually--whereas in Cook Islands, her coming in sixth place didn't necessitate that).  By the time Heroes vs. Villains came along, it was hard to think of her as a villain, really--at least for me.

I wonder how much of it had to with Parvati not being a Survivor fan before she went on the show. By the time she went on play in Micronesia and Heroes vs Villans she had seen a couple of seasons. Plus during Cook Islands people hated Candice and Adam with a passion and those were her closest allies. In Micronesia, she was aligned with James and Cirie who people liked and she also helped blindside Ozzy who people were sick of by that point. I remember Probst saying that in an interview before Heroes vs. Villans how he thought the audience was sick of Ozzy because of his behavior in Micronesia. ETA I do remember Yul saying either during the show or in an interview he was scared most of Parvati because of her game instincts.

 

For me there were big changes in Boston Rob, for example.  The more he came back, the more easygoing he seemed.  Maybe it was as simple as having money in the bank already (not just Amber's money, but also the money they got for stuff like their wedding stuff all being on TV).  Maybe it was having kids at that point he'd have to explain being a dick to.  I think it was a conscious choice, but not specifically a strategic one--it just worked out that it eventually DID help him strategically, in the Redemption Island season, because it wound up contrasting him with Russell Hantz.

Boston Rob is interesting because when we first saw him he was pretty young. I think it has to do with the fact we saw him in different parts of his life. We saw him as a young single guy during Marquesas by the time All-Stars came around he seemed to have matured a bit with his leadership skills. By the time he came back in Heroes vs Villains and Redemption Island he was married and was a father.

Edited January 4, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Lingo]

Whatever happened to Sue Hawk's lawsuit over Richard rubbing his pee pee against her during that challenge?

The way she stormed off the show, it seemed that she was thinking that she could sue CBS and Richard.

I'll agree that she was entertaining to watch, but there is no way I would call a blow hard like Sue a favorite.

Favorite imbecile, perhaps.

 

I just watched Season 1 basically for the first time (I know!), and I was really surprised by how much I liked Sue. I had absolutely no problem with anything she said and did, right up until her jury speech (which I feel was needlessly mean to Kelly).  Up until that point she was refreshingly honest, shrewd, funny, and competent. I think she doesn't get enough credit for her gameplay (and Rich gets a bit too much).  I think Sue came into the game with the same basic alliance strategy that Rich did, although Rich played it better in the end. She made an alliance with Kelly before Rich even came to them with his idea for an alliance (which Rich admits to on-camera).  Her big mistake (and it was big) was telling Kelly to her face that she'd try to get Kelly out before the end (and even then, Kelly still voted with her against Rich at F4 the first time).

 

I definitely didn't think she was a blowhard or imbecile in S1.  I can't remember how she acted in S8, though.

[fishcakes]

Sue's speech to Kelly was really mean, but it seemed to come from a place of genuine hurt feelings and not just grandstanding. Before they'd fallen out, Sue did that tearful confessional where she talked about how she and Kelly were as close as sisters and how she hadn't had a really close woman friend since her best friend had died 20 years earlier. It was never exactly clear what happened to cause the blowup, but it seemed like after the merge, Kelly was spending time with Colleen and Jenna, who were about the same age as her, and Sue got the idea that Kelly was strategizing with them against her. So I think she felt betrayed both in terms of the game and in terms of their friendship, and since it was the first season and the game was far less cutthroat and a lot of people were all, "YAY! Friends forever!" I cut Sue a lot of slack on that. Her hurt feelings did kill her game, but I otherwise agree that, strategically, she was every bit as good as Rich.

 

She was almost a different person in All-Stars, though. The biggest thing about her in Borneo was that she was constantly working and foraging for food. Gervase said if she was awake, she was working, and if she was asleep, she was dreaming about working. In All-Stars, she was so lazy, she couldn't even be bothered to stand up a lot of the time. There was this one hilarious scene where the tribe was gathered around Boston Rob who was reading treemail and Sue was lying on a log away from the group and yelling, "READ LOUDER!"

[BigRedCheese]

I remember hating Jerri in the second season, just like most of America, but after that, I saw her on The Surreal Life, ready to boo and hiss, and actually found her very likable. Of course, over the years, there have been people much worse than Jerri was on the second season, so I wonder if I re watched it .now, if she would even come across as unlikable to me at all. Either way, I like her now.

[snoopythecat]

I submit Andrea's play in Caramoan as evidence that Rob's tribe was not, in fact, populated entirely by mindless groupies.

I found Jerri way more likable in HvV than in Australia (haven't seen all of All-Stars). I think we can conclude that this was not merely a trick of editing, because Colby of all people expressed a similar sentiment.

I hated Coach in Tocantins, liked him better in HvV, then hated him again in South Pacific.

I liked Ozzy until he acted like an entitled brat after Parvati and Cirie decided they actually wanted to win the game rather than just handing it to Ozzy.

Rupert has become increasingly annoying with each appearance.

Malcolm came off much better in his first appearance than his second. This could be partly due to the toll back-to-back seasons took on him, but even he admitted he was surprised at the positive edit he got in Philippines. Being on the underdog tribe that season benefitted him in that regard, much as I believe it benefitted Spencer (who was NOT at all likable in pre season interviews) in Cagayan.

ETA: Autocorrect issues

Edited January 5, 2015 by snoopythecat

[peachmangosteen]

Yea, I think Malcom and Spencer were actually very lucky to have ended up being so doomed because there's no doubt it my mind they'd have been insufferable otherwise. Hell, Malcolm still was IMO.

Edited January 5, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[KimberStormer]

All the more Malcolm for me!  My schoolgirl crush on him is undimmed.

 

I'd like to think that Spencer had his attitude seriously adjusted by the hapless beating the Brains took and his own admitted failures at the game.  His pre-season and post-season interviews are like night and day.  I imagine he was somewhat playing the jerkass to get cast, like I believe Sophie has admitted to doing, and I also imagine he got a sweetheart underdog edit, but wouldn't it be nice to imagine that he grew and developed through his experiences like a fictional character would?  I'm not on the Spencer love train, but I don't hate him either; I wouldn't mind seeing him again.

[ToastnBacon]

I've been watching some of the older seasons on YouTube and I just finished Gabon a few days ago.

I really liked Sugar, and I think she was possibly one of the most authentic people who have been on the game.

Not a great player, but not entirely terrible either. Once Ace, her goat herder, was voted off she showed a little savy orchestrating the fake idol scam with Science Bob.

I think she is the ideal goat player. Once you have her in your goat herd, you can keep her loyal. The only reason she flipped on Ace was because he was a crappy goat herder.

Plus, she is so darned cute.

[peachmangosteen]

I loved Sugar a lot in Gabon. But then she handed the game to fucking Bob and that kinda made me hate her. She was fairly awful in her short time on HvV as well. Also, I think there's been talk that she's actually pretty terrible in real life, so I've decided she just got a great edit in Gabon.

 

My all time fave is Sandra and I doubt anyone will ever replace her as my #1. Two time winner, bitches! But I love Kim a lot, too. And I really liked Natalie White. I also liked Parvati (mostly), Natalie Anderson, and Sophie. As for non-winners, I liked Andrea. And the lone male player that I ever had strong feelings of like for is Penner and that's mostly just because I think he's hot and I love his voice.

 

Least faves are Russell, Terry, Tom, and Bob. I hate that Boston Rob won RI and I don't think he's a great player, but I like him as a person.

Edited January 11, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[BigRedCheese]

 

I found Jerri way more likable in HvV than in Australia (haven't seen all of All-Stars). I think we can conclude that this was not merely a trick of editing

 

I don't think it was a trick of editing, I just wonder if I would find her as unlikable as I did back in 2001 if I watched season two again. There's a lot of Survivor's under the bridge by now, and much worse people than Jerri have come and gone. Of course, I'm sure my opinion would be clouded by the fact that I've liked her in everything I've seen her in since then, so probably no way to tell.

 

I liked Sugar, and still do, she wasn't in HvV very long, from what I've read online, JT had a brief affair with her before the season started, and his girlfriend found out about it, so he wanted to get her out as quickly as possible so that his girlfriend wouldn't be jealous.

[KimberStormer]

I've been watching some of the older seasons on YouTube and I just finished Gabon a few days ago.

I really liked Sugar, and I think she was possibly one of the most authentic people who have been on the game.

Not a great player, but not entirely terrible either. Once Ace, her goat herder, was voted off she showed a little savy orchestrating the fake idol scam with Science Bob.

I think she is the ideal goat player. Once you have her in your goat herd, you can keep her loyal. The only reason she flipped on Ace was because he was a crappy goat herder.

Plus, she is so darned cute.

 

Sugar ran that game.  She was what some of us call an Ox--the goat who drives the game, like Russell.  But she knew it, unlike Russell, and manipulated the game towards an ending she could live with, which in a way is as impressive to me as winning yourself.  I agree she was authentic--when she's wading through the muck to find the idol and laughing at the ridiculousness of it all is one of my favorite Survivor moments.  But I disagree that she was bad at the game.  She played a sort of detached, weirdly independent game, and everyone was too stupid or scared or condescendingly dismissive to do anything about it.  She was on the right side of every vote and really ran circles around everyone who was trying to use her.  (I think Susie played really well too--flipping and winning immunities at just the right times.  Bob was easily the worst choice of the final 3.)  A whole bunch of people thought "she is the ideal goat player. Once you have her in your goat herd, you can keep her loyal," to their sorrow.

 

I liked Sugar, and still do, she wasn't in HvV very long, from what I've read online, JT had a brief affair with her before the season started, and his girlfriend found out about it, so he wanted to get her out as quickly as possible so that his girlfriend wouldn't be jealous.

 

This is one of those stories which are appealing but, to me at least, once you think about them, don't make much sense.  What do any of the other Heroes care about JT's love life?  I think they were all just playing smart--Sugar was a hugely unpredictable, independent force of chaos in the game, and it just makes sense that they'd want to boot her ASAP.  Her game really only worked once, with competing groups of arrogant morons (Ace, the Onions, Ken and Crystal) who kept thinking she'd be an easily controllable goat for a guaranteed million bucks.  After watching the season it should be clear that you're juggling nitroglycerine when you're playing with her.

[ToastnBacon]

Sugar ran that game.  She was what some of us call an Ox--the goat who drives the game, like Russell.  But she knew it, unlike Russell, and manipulated the game towards an ending she could live with, which in a way is as impressive to me as winning yourself.  I agree she was authentic--when she's wading through the muck to find the idol and laughing at the ridiculousness of it all is one of my favorite Survivor moments.  But I disagree that she was bad at the game.  She played a sort of detached, weirdly independent game, and everyone was too stupid or scared or condescendingly dismissive to do anything about it.  She was on the right side of every vote and really ran circles around everyone who was trying to use her.  (I think Susie played really well too--flipping and winning immunities at just the right times.  Bob was easily the worst choice of the final 3.)  A whole bunch of people thought "she is the ideal goat player. Once you have her in your goat herd, you can keep her loyal," to their sorrow.

 

 

This is one of those stories which are appealing but, to me at least, once you think about them, don't make much sense.  What do any of the other Heroes care about JT's love life?  I think they were all just playing smart--Sugar was a hugely unpredictable, independent force of chaos in the game, and it just makes sense that they'd want to boot her ASAP.  Her game really only worked once, with competing groups of arrogant morons (Ace, the Onions, Ken and Crystal) who kept thinking she'd be an easily controllable goat for a guaranteed million bucks.  After watching the season it should be clear that you're juggling nitroglycerine when you're playing with her.

You make some interesting observations.

Not sure if you remember but Sugar is the one who spent a significant amount of time on exile island. I think that had more to do with her detached and independent game play than anything else. She went out there five or six times in a row, lucky for her that season they had a choice of choosing idol clues or luxury that season.

After she found the idol, she spent the rest of her days in that little hut on the lake that she named the Sugar Shack.

It put her in a unique position, but I wouldn't say she was running the game by her design. She wasn't percieved as a threat, and she had other players courting for her vote to gain numbers.

Regardless, the last thing I would ever call her is a dumb blonde. She was far from being a dummy, and I do give her credit for being clever and making a couple of good moves.

I just don't think she was at the mastermind level of game play.

I do think she would be easy to keep loyal, not because she is a dummy, but because she is a genuine person with with heart.

I don't see her as choosing betrayal without a lot of justification for doing so. In other words, I don't think she has a cold hearted killer instinct.

As far as HvV, I think that was Colby that she had the fling with and not JT.

The first night in the shelter she kept following Colby around trying to snuggle with him and he kept moving away from her.

The way the edit made it look, it was completely unsolicited attention and Colby was annoyed by her. Colby then was one of the loudest voices to vote her out based on she was too weak at challenges and annoying in camp.

The possibility that they had some type of fling before the game would match what happened on the show.

I don't know, but I do know that Sugar is adorable while Colby is bland, boring and full of crap. He is also one of those preachy players that I despise.

Sugar was interesting and incredibly charming in my book, and I would have loved to seen her last longer on HvV.

[peachmangosteen]

Sugar ran that game.  She was what some of us call an Ox--the goat who drives the game, like Russell.  But she knew it, unlike Russell, and manipulated the game towards an ending she could live with, which in a way is as impressive to me as winning yourself.  I agree she was authentic--when she's wading through the muck to find the idol and laughing at the ridiculousness of it all is one of my favorite Survivor moments.  But I disagree that she was bad at the game.  She played a sort of detached, weirdly independent game, and everyone was too stupid or scared or condescendingly dismissive to do anything about it.  She was on the right side of every vote and really ran circles around everyone who was trying to use her.  (I think Susie played really well too--flipping and winning immunities at just the right times.  Bob was easily the worst choice of the final 3.)  A whole bunch of people thought "she is the ideal goat player. Once you have her in your goat herd, you can keep her loyal," to their sorrow.

 

Yea, this. I loved Sugar in Gabon for all these reasons. I thought she was killing it game-wise and was also super cute and fun. But then Bob won and UGH. 

 

Also, I thought Susie played great, too, and I liked her a lot. I actually wanted her to win.

 

I actually just enjoyed Gabon a lot in general, which I believe may be an unpopular opinion.

Edited January 12, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[choclatechip45]

Sugar was great tv in Gabon. I remember the JT affair she admitted to it in one of her preshow interviews. Also, she swallowed a bunch of pills  the night Tyson was booted I think it was a suicide attempt. I remember Tyson mentioning in a RHAP interview that the psychologist wasn't there to greet him when he was voted off because she was dealing with an emergency.

Edited January 15, 2015 by choclatechip45

[Trick Question]

Geez, I didn't know that tidbit about Sugar overdosing on pills.  Scary stuff.

 

Sugar was an interesting player since she was one of the first to be overtly 'playing to the cameras' rather than actually trying to win the game.  Remember, she's an actress.  It's clear that she either saw Survivor as just a role to be played, or she decided early on that she didn't have much of a chance of winning and thus all of her gameplay was geared towards eliminating and pissing off her enemies rather than making moves to help her victory.  The biggest example, of course, was picking Bob for the F3 over Matty --- that was a deliberate "picking the kindly old guy will win me points with the audience" decision since it made zero sense game-wise.  it's no surprise that she was so universally hated by the Gabon cast; if I was out there trying to play a logical game and win, it would irritate me to have a wild card in the mix.  Then again, most of the Gabon cast were wretched a-holes, so their opinion of Sugar doesn't carry much weight.

[BigRedCheese]

Sugar's father had also recently passed away, and she was dealing with that, so that affected her behavior as well. I think Bob reminded her of her father, that's probably why she threw the game to him.

[ToastnBacon]

Geez, I didn't know that tidbit about Sugar overdosing on pills.  Scary stuff.

 

She talked about it on Celebrity Rehab, she said she took a bottle of aspirin and started gobbling pills. The medical team flew her to Australia to make sure she didn't damage her liver too bad.

From the way it sounded, she didn't take near enough aspirin to do the job.

About a year ago, one of my cousins showed up at my house a day after after taking a bunch of Tylenol.

She was fine at first but in a lot of pain the next day. Fortunately, she didn't take enough for it to overwhelm her liver.

That is a horrible way to kill yourself, because it isn't quick and it is very painful. The way it usually goes is you feel normal for a day or two afterwards, and then, your liver starts to fail and it takes a day or two to die.

[Kromm]

I loved Sugar a lot in Gabon. But then she handed the game to fucking Bob and that kinda made me hate her. She was fairly awful in her short time on HvV as well. Also, I think there's been talk that she's actually pretty terrible in real life, so I've decided she just got a great edit in Gabon.

Yeah, I went on a weird trip perceptionwise with Sugar too.  I also really liked her in most of her initial appearance and kind of soured on her later.  I don't know what to say about rumors of her in real life though until I at least read them myself (rather than get it third-hand).

Sugar was great tv in Gabon. I remember the JT affair she admitted to it in one of her preshow interviews. 

JT who?

 

Abbreviations are rarely our friend on these boards!

[choclatechip45]

 

JT who?

JT the guy who won Tocantins. He went by that name on the show I have no idea what JT stands for.

[sara416]

This is probably one of the most unpopular opinions out there, but I loved Russel the first season he was on. After that, not so much. But he played a brilliant game that first time around, making moves that in no way should have worked but totally worked to his favor. I was so pissed when he lost in the end to some blonde girl whose name I don't remember. The jury voted for her simply because they hated Russel, but she did nothing except stay under the radar the whole game. He should have won his first season. Was he a good person? Not necessarily. But he was a hell of a game player. 

[Donny Ketchum]

This is probably one of the most unpopular opinions out there, but I loved Russel the first season he was on. After that, not so much. But he played a brilliant game that first time around, making moves that in no way should have worked but totally worked to his favor. I was so pissed when he lost in the end to some blonde girl whose name I don't remember. The jury voted for her simply because they hated Russel, but she did nothing except stay under the radar the whole game. He should have won his first season. Was he a good person? Not necessarily. But he was a hell of a game player. 

And you're yet another who only looked at the editing and not past the editing.  If it were just the moves, he would've won.  But he also continued to insult people after they were voted out, even as they were leaving the Tribal Council area, and continued to be nasty to people around camp.  Also, you missed that everyone in his alliance actually worked to preserve their safety, not just he himself.  Basically, there is no way he "should" have won.  The strategy part of the game is one thing, but he plum blew the social game, which is even more important than the strategy game.  That is his own fault.