S35: Chrissy Hofbeck

[Guest]

I actually wish we could see them occasionally talking about the game in those ways, and even about prior seasons.  You know they must sit around and discuss past seasons and players and challenges, etc.  I'd love to hear that.  I guess the show would need to be 90 minutes long, or skip something like the tribal banter.  

[Nashville]

12 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I actually wish we could see them occasionally talking about the game in those ways, and even about prior seasons.  You know they must sit around and discuss past seasons and players and challenges, etc.  I'd love to hear that.  I guess the show would need to be 90 minutes long, or skip something like the tribal banter.  

 

“YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED - TO TALK ABOUT - PRODUCTION.”

 

...Whoopsy, sorry - wrong show.  :D

[cherrypj]

Jeremy had his meat shield. But Jeremy is a young(ish) strong man, so his meat shields had to be other young strong men. He did that.

Chrissy is an older woman. Who can be her shields? Who are people that are plausible votes instead of her? Given the Survivor (the game) environment, it's other women, right? It makes sense, to me, that once she gets rid of the other women, she can then hide behind the strong men. "HE's going to win immunity and vote YOU off!"

That she prefers to play with men or doesn't like other women is all speculation based on who's gone home and who hasn't. 

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, cherrypj said:

That she prefers to play with men or doesn't like other women is all speculation based on who's gone home and who hasn't. 

It's not based on that for me. It is admittedly just based on a vibe/feeling though. And that vibe is probably always gonna be there for me, no matter what she does now.

[LadyChatts]

But will Chrissy be successful hiding behind the other men?  And, a bigger question is, can she beat them in the final 3?  I think she comes off as condescending and acting better than.  That tone in her voice just gives me that vibe.  She might make it to the final 3, but she might piss off a lot of people in the process.  If the Healers get picked off one by one, they may dictate how the jury votes.  Given how Joe feels about Chrissy, there's one automatic jury vote she won't get.  The other Healers may follow suit.  I don't know if she's doing a reverse Russell Hantz and aligning herself with guys she sees as dumb (JP/Ryan/Ben) and thinks will be beatable in the end or what.  

I'm actually going to enjoy the new jury format with her if she makes it to the final 3.

[simplyme]

8 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

I don't know if she's doing a reverse Russell Hantz and aligning herself with guys she sees as dumb (JP/Ryan/Ben) and thinks will be beatable in the end or what.  

I'm actually going to enjoy the new jury format with her if she makes it to the final 3.

Chrissy mentioned waaaay back that she was a bit leery of Ben because he had a good social game. I'm curious to see exactly how far she'd want to take him vs, say, JP or someone else. I'd be willing to bet she's constantly evaluating how she thinks the tribe feels about each person and who she has the best chance to beat, which may or may not include Ben.

I really wish they called Chrissy an actuary rather than a "financial analyst" because I think some people might have the wrong idea of what she does. She doesn't put together financial products for people to buy. She works for companies like insurance corporations and tries to evaluate risk and predict the future and sometimes put a financial price tag on it.

This is a very general description of things actuaries are known for doing from http://www.beanactuary.org/what/do/?fa=what-do-we-do:

Quote

Evaluating the likelihood of future events—using numbers, not crystal balls.

Designing creative ways to reduce the likelihood of undesirable events.

Decreasing the impact of undesirable events that do occur.

That looks like a good skillset to have for Survivor if you can pull off enough of the social aspect of the game.

[peachmangosteen]

48 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

She might very well be more comfortable with men then women and who cares?

There's not necessarily anything wrong with it, unless is comes with some internalized misogyny behind it. I go back and forth on whether or not it does with Chrissy. I think the decisions she's made on who to align with (all men) and who to boot (all women) so far have all been the right game-related choices, but I can't shake the feeling that there's maybe some internalized misogyny there, too.

[ProfCrash]

I just don't see that. I see a woman who is playing a bit outside of the stereotypes and maybe that is bothering folks. I see a woman who went back to work after having kids and is smart who appears to not have meshed with the younger women that she has played with. I think she had good reasons for voting off the people who she has voted for.

It drives me a bit nuts when people assume that a woman who gets along better with men then women has some internalized misogyny behind it because I know that is how people would be discussing me. I work in a male dominated environment, mainly current or retired military. I have an idea about how to interact with the guys at work and am not to sure that I would do well in a mainly female environment because the way the genders communicate is very different.

I think that she did not gel with the younger crowd in her original tribe, was happy to link up with Ryan on her merge tribe and has worked well with most of his allies. Ali is the only exception to the Ryan allies rule and I am not all that certain why Ali and Chrissy did not get along well. I suppose it could be an gender thing or it could be an age thing or it could be that Ali had allied herself with Roarke who did not get along with Chrissy.

I am thrilled that there is a woman playing a good strategic game who is playing outside the stereotypes. I am thrilled that she is doing so and not intentionally chaotic like Kass or playing outside her personality and getting trapped into a stereotype like Dawn and Lisa. I don't see her playing like Denise, I think Denise had a better social game but I think that is because Denise is a therapist and is better at reading people and figuring out how to interact with different personalities.

[Guest]

I agree on all counts.  Her field is my field and it is very male-dominated.  Working with men in a male field for decades does predispose you to working well with men, I think.  

I found this descriptor of 'internalized misogyny' on wikipedia.  It sounds nothing like Chrissy to me.  

The implications of internalized misogyny include psychological disorders such as depression, eating disorders, low self-esteem, and less social support among women.

I virtually always bristle at the M-word here.  It reminds me of Phillip accusing his white tribemate of racism because he didn't like Phillip or whatever entirely ludicrous reason he had.  It's a serious allegation and shouldn't be tossed out lightly.

[peachmangosteen]

.

Edited November 13, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Daisy]

On 11/11/2017 at 2:23 PM, LadyChatts said:

But will Chrissy be successful hiding behind the other men?  And, a bigger question is, can she beat them in the final 3?  I think she comes off as condescending and acting better than.  That tone in her voice just gives me that vibe.  She might make it to the final 3, but she might piss off a lot of people in the process.  If the Healers get picked off one by one, they may dictate how the jury votes.  Given how Joe feels about Chrissy, there's one automatic jury vote she won't get.  The other Healers may follow suit.  I don't know if she's doing a reverse Russell Hantz and aligning herself with guys she sees as dumb (JP/Ryan/Ben) and thinks will be beatable in the end or what.  

I'm actually going to enjoy the new jury format with her if she makes it to the final 3.

 

that will be very interesting. truly. I'm kinda hoping she does just to see how it works out. 

I also have to agree with Winston + ProfCash, and I find it's very interesting. I think we all tend to mock the "ooooh Women's Alliance!!" theme that pops up on the show all the time because people don't go "ooooooh GUYS ALLIANCE"  when that's what forms. (even though the long lasting ones sort of have a blend of both sexes. not all the time - but some of the lasting ones, then you get your final 4-3-2- split). 

As a sociologist by nature (yay my degree kicking in!). i always find this aspect so interesting. There are people who get upset that the people of colour get voted off relatively quickly. (for me, as person of colour i couldn't even care less. I barely truly notice it - except for when it's obvious, say a Cook Island because it was so focused on race). and I've pointed out several times the "oh there goes another woman." comments when 3 women in a row get voted off... regardless if it makes logical game sense or not. (but very rare a comment if it's 3 men in a row. (which has happened. many times) - and I'm a girl.  Some seasons i am TOTALLY about the girl Alliance (Micronesia) sometimes it's all about the GUY alliance. it doesn't bother me if all the girls get punted as  long as the reasons are sound - just like it wouldn't bother me if it were all the boys for the same reason. There are some misogynistic behaviour on the show - for sure  but i think at times there are misandry behaviour too (some seasons).  but I do know people watch for other reasons, - so i am always interested in the why. so i hope it's not coming off as judgmental - that's not my intention at all. just purely, utterly curious. 

 now the booted off survivors are like Chrissy doesn't want challenges from women/annoying etc, (which, fair). but then people are also saying she hates women 

 

Why?  Why does she hate women?
Why can't it just be she wants to work with the men as it benefits her game more?
i never really got the thought that Chrissy hated women. I just figured she doesn't want to work with the ones on the show. Now of course only having a 43 minute snippet every week doesn't give me the full story, but she comes off as arrogant (ie: talking to people about the game and assuming no one is hearing or paying attention) ..

if i were on the show, i'd probably be working with mostly the guys too. i don't know if i'd work with the girls. especially at this point where doing so doesn't work for my game. and that's all I ever see Chrissy doing. now is she not kind about it - probably i get that air, would she be someone i'd want to be around - probably not, but hater of her own sex? i doubt that very much. 

 

and then. the question would also have to be asked. 

if she does. does it matter on this show? she doesn't have to work with the women. if it were a man, and he was doing the same thing would he be hating men? no. 

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Maybe to vote people out and have them still like you, you need to be seen as ... JT?  I'm not sure how some people do it.  And how much of it is the jurors' own personalities.  

I think it really is usually like at minimum 75% just about personalities, of both the juror and the F3. I think Chrissy is someone whose innate personality is unlikely to inspire people feeling super warm and fuzzy about her anyway. She just comes off disingenuous to a lot of people. She might not in fact be fake, but perception is everything in Survivor. And just in these particular circumstances with these particular people I think her personality is really going to hurt her if she gets to F3. Although, I do think it might just be the women who get such bad vibes from her and since they're pretty much all gone now it might not end up mattering.

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

Joe still hates her and loves the hate she's getting.

Well then, maybe one of the men does hate her. LMAO at him loving the Chrissy hate. I might need to check his twitter.

I think Chrissy is playing a good-great strategic game, but I think she has at least one major flaw that may be her downfall and that's her belief that she's the smartest person in the room/that a lot of the other players are stupid. And if that doesn't get her I think her social game will. But if she ends up winning, she played a good game so good for her. I just hate her personality and I can't root for someone that I don't like.

Edited November 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[MissEwa]

At this point the "hate" she's getting is so over-the-top I feel like it's misdirection and she's going to win in a near-unanimous jury vote. I'd be happy to be wrong but I feel like if she was being set up as a Dawn production might start seeing the hate as spoilery. 

[peachmangosteen]

She isn't being shown as getting hate on the actual show though and that's why I'm not 100% sure it'll come up, which probably means she wins and her social game isn't her downfall or she doesn't make F3.

[LadyChatts]

We haven't seen what the jury has to say about her, though.  If she starts being responsible for getting rid of her alliance-and clearly Desi and Joe aren't voting for her-she might start getting a more negative edit, or might get blasted at the FTC if she makes it (I hope she doesn't).  Desi's only our first juror, so we might start seeing a shift in edits.

Anyone know when the finale is, or if they are going to have a 2 hour ep this season?  Just curious for a time line of how much longer we have to go.

Quote

I think Chrissy is playing a good-great strategic game, but I think she has at least one major flaw that may be her downfall and that's her belief that she's the smartest person in the room/that a lot of the other players are stupid. And if that doesn't get her I think her social game will. But if she ends up winning, she played a good game so good for her. I just hate her personality and I can't root for someone that I don't like.

This is exactly what might be Chrissy's downfall in the end.  We've gotten numerous TH about how wonderful her social game is and she's the smartest person out there, that I wonder if that's what she gets called out on it if she brings it up.  Now, those are TH which no one has seen, but how will Chrissy word her TC arguments?  It's a different format now, and since S35 was filming while S34 was airing, I'm not sure if they were made aware of it ahead of time (unless they revert back to the old format).  I can see Chrissy being like Adam and wanting to hear herself talk, and trying to interrupt or downplay whoever her Hannah and Ken might be.  I know there are people who like her, but overall, I'd wager she'd end up being a very unpopular winner unless something changed-either in her edit or she did something ground breaking.  I don't really see her as being some mastermind.  And now she's got a mega alliance that she's in the core of, so unless someone flips, it's easy for her now. 

Quote

Well then, maybe one of the men does hate her. LMAO at him loving the Chrissy hate. I might need to check his twitter.

Dr. Mike is probably the cringe worthy, attention seeking Twitter poster this season.  Joe seems to love the love, love the haters, and so far he's picked fights with Jonny Fairplay and Kass. 

Edited November 18, 2017 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

Quote

Anyone know when the finale is, or if they are going to have a 2 hour ep this season?  

Someone in another thread said there's a 2 hour ep on the 29th.

Edited November 18, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

Given that Desi detests Chrissy now, I'm guessing Chrissy never makes it to the jury house, because people seem to usually mend fences there.  

[peachmangosteen]

Good point. Also, maybe a lot of animosity over Chrissy builds up as more people enter Ponderosa because that is some OTT hate Desi has for her. If this does happen, they need to show more of Chrissy being like this on the actual show.

Although sometimes people don't mend fences much, so maybe the animosity grew with Chrissy there.

[kassandra8286]

12 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Given that Desi detests Chrissy now, I'm guessing Chrissy never makes it to the jury house, because people seem to usually mend fences there.  

Yeah, that is a good point. I was thinking also that the way all the bootees except Alan and Patrick have singled out Chrissy in their interviews and seem to harbor such bitterness towards her may indicate she never got her "comeuppance" by getting booted herself, thus depriving them of at least that bit of satisfaction. So I'm more and more convinced she'll be there at FTC.

Which is good news for those that like her, but pretty depressing to me, lol.

[LadyChatts]

Or it could be Chrissy is a late boot and only spends a couple of days there.  I also agree with @peachmangosteen that maybe some of the hate for Chrissy grew in Ponderosa.  

I'm drawing a blank but I know there have been examples of people who've gotten great edits but weren't so great behind the scenes.  Maybe Chrissy is one of them.  For this many people to dislike her so far, I've gotta think there's something we aren't seeing.  Which yes, could mean she goes far, everyone else was too boring, or she wins, but I don't think her winner's edit has been the best so far if that's the case.  As I said, I'll be curious what the others have to say about her.  Besides Joe, because we already know there won't be a lot of love when he gives his interviews.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm drawing a blank but I know there have been examples of people who've gotten great edits but weren't so great behind the scenes. 

Sugar in Gabon is who I heard this about.  Then she got her comeuppance her second season.  

Now I'm thinking that Chrissy's game is going to get really dirty and the jurors are going to hear all about it.  Darn, they're going to make me hate her, aren't they?  I guess that's ok as long as they don't make me hate her and she wins, but I'm not sure they've ever done that to me.  I didn't love Tom Westman and Michelle was a WTF but I don't think I've really hated any winners.  On TAR, maybe.  

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, LadyChatts said:

I'm drawing a blank but I know there have been examples of people who've gotten great edits but weren't so great behind the scenes.

Malcolm came out of Phillipines saying he was surprised by his edit because he thought he was much more of a jerk than they portrayed, but I can't remember if anybody else said anything. 

I feel like everything about her edit is pointing to a FTC zero, but to a point where it's *too* obvious. And even in Desi's interview (linked in her thread) where she made it very clear that she doesn't like her at all, she said she was playing the best game, so I feel like she either wins and this is the best they could do because she's actually much more terrible than we're being shown, or she gets her comeuppance in some brilliant way at Day 36 or whatever. 

[violet and green]

I don't think she's getting such a great edit. She's been shown gloating about her social game several times, and was nearly voted out tribal before last - so they are onto her dangerousness, to some degree.  The articulate people tend to get the narration spots. She and Ryan are also making moves or discussing moves.She's not sitting back, ie, so good on her. But I would not be surprised if she was out soon, and in fact the supposedly bitter people just don't like her.

[ProfCrash]

I think her edit has been interesting. It is clear that she understands the strategy but that her social game is lacking. I think it is one of the more honest edits we have seen. 

[Special K]

I know actuaries, some of my best friends are actuaries :) and I think her personality and social demeanor are about what I'd expect.  My actuary friends are the only people I know who -- they don't make me feel stupid exactly, but I sometimes suspect they think I am stupid when in conversation.  It's not necessarily that they do, but they are always looking at things analytically, they like to debate and get to the bottom of things, even for debate's sake, and are really much more jazzed about information and knowing things than your feelings.  Like if you make a hyperbolic statement, they'll want to suss out whether it is true or not, but not in a snotty way (or at least not intentionally), but in a "just the fact's ma'am" way.

I don't think this is a great personality for Survivor, though.  Probably better for Jeopardy.  But I like her.   

[peachmangosteen]

50 minutes ago, Special K said:

I don't think this is a great personality for Survivor, though.  

This. I think Chrissy was basically doomed from the start in this game because of her personality. Like I said somewhere else, it just doesn't really lend itself to people feeling real warm and fuzzy about you. And more than likely people will hate you even if you don't really mean to come off arrogant and fake. 

[Special K]

38 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

This. I think Chrissy was basically doomed from the start in this game because of her personality. Like I said somewhere else, it just doesn't really lend itself to people feeling real warm and fuzzy about you. And more than likely people will hate you even if you don't really mean to come off arrogant and fake. 

Yes.  And it's not just that she's smart, she's just smart in a left-brain kind of way which most people, wrongly I should say, associate with males and not females.  It's why I actually like seeing her on the show precisely because she isn't the kind of "make nice," warm, motherly woman that our society seems to value so highly.

[ProfCrash]

3 minutes ago, Special K said:

Yes.  And it's not just that she's smart, she's just smart in a left-brain kind of way which most people, wrongly I should say, associate with males and not females.  It's why I actually like seeing her on the show precisely because she isn't the kind of "make nice," warm, motherly woman that our society seems to value so highly.

Agreed. She is playing a very different type of game then we normally see a woman playing and I like that. She is not someone I am rooting for, per se, but I think she is playing a great game. She is not playing to the female stereotypes and I think that that bothers people. As much as we all like to think that we don't let our stereotypes influence our responses, they do. 

I like the game Chrissy is playing, I don't have a problem with it. I would much rather find myself in the final 7 with Devon, Cole and JP then Jessica, Desi and Ali. The guys are far easier to work around. And Chrissy doesn't bother to pretend to have BS alliances, which I have no problem with. Some how Sara figured out a way to play a strategic game that allowed her to take out people while still having a good social game, but that is rare. JT was the last person I can think of who was able to play the vote everyone out and have people still like you. It takes a certain kind of charm and ability. Chrissy does not have that. Unlike Denise, Chrissy has been in the dominant alliance since almost the start. So it is clear that Chrissy has helped vote people out. Denise played from an underdog position for much of the game so she didn't take the vitriol that Chrissy is taking.

[Special K]

11 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

 

I like the game Chrissy is playing, I don't have a problem with it. I would much rather find myself in the final 7 with Devon, Cole and JP then Jessica, Desi and Ali.

I've found all the "Chrissy hates women" discussion here kind of amusing.  To me it seems like she might have a lower opinion of the men!  And therefore wants to keep them around.  I mean:  JP vs. Ali?  Cole vs. Desi??  You do the math.  :)

[Clare]

I like Chrissy's game too.  I'm not sure if I think she can win but she's a different character.  She reminds me a little of Kathy Vavrick-O'Brien.  She's not quite as likeable but they edit the game so differently now that it's hard to tell.  Both her and Lauren are characters that we haven't really seen much of and I'm enjoying it.   I have no problem with all the younger women going first.  Jessica wasted her game on Cole and all Desi had to do was vote for Joe and she would have stayed.  None of that is Chrissy's fault.

[Wings]

On 11/17/2017 at 9:43 PM, Winston9-DT3 said:

Given that Desi detests Chrissy now, I'm guessing Chrissy never makes it to the jury house, because people seem to usually mend fences there.  

Yes.  I see this as a solid sign she is in F3.

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

She is playing a very different type of game then we normally see a woman playing and I like that.

I like that, too. They never cast women who play this type of game.

I really wish I didn't hate Chrissy's personality because I would love to be able to root for her. I even tried looking at her twitter to see if I could bring myself to like her and I just can't!

Edited November 20, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[peachmangosteen]

7 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

I do wonder how much of Desi and some of the other dislike is being feed by watching the show and what happened in Ponderosa.

I wonder about that, too. I also wonder if the fact that there is some fan backlash against Chrissy relating to her possible women issues might be influencing these people, too. They might not have had such strong feelings while playing but are developing them now while watching and seeing fan reactions.

6 hours ago, Special K said:

Desi complaining about Chrissy using her womanly attributes to manipulate the men is kind of LOL.  This is a 46 year old woman on Survivor, which basically makes her a grandma!  I mean, unless the editors REALLY aren't showing it, but it still kind of makes me do a massive eye-roll. 

Yea, I honestly can not see Chrissy trying to use a flirt type game with these guys. I do think she has quite a few of them in the palm of her hand though and I don't feel like I can suss out exactly how she accomplished that.

Quote

I mean, she mentioned Chrissy's teeth of all things!  I cannot even remember Chrissy's teeth ...

They're big, I know that! 

4 hours ago, LadyChatts said:

Chrissy may be hated by the jury, but they may rather her win than Ryan or JP. 

I feel like Ryan would easily beat her and if that happens I am gonna go batshit. I hate Chirssy but Ryan sucks so hard!

[LadyChatts]

Quote

I feel like Ryan would easily beat her and if that happens I am gonna go batshit. I hate Chirssy but Ryan sucks so hard!

I don't know.  Ryan seems likable but it might be whether the jury thinks he plays a good game (and whether this jury is game oriented voting, or bitter oriented voting).  That's why I think Desi is probably a good choice for first juror.  She hates Chrissy, but respects her game, and may talk others off the ledge if they let personal feelings get in the way.  Ryan does have some things he could argue about how he made moves, but it will depend on the new jury format and whether he was seen more as Chrissy's lap dog or not. 

Quote

I really wish I didn't hate Chrissy's personality because I would love to be able to root for her. I even tried looking at her twitter to see if I could bring myself to like her and I just can't!

To her credit, she doesn't seem to be acknowledging the haters at all.  I'll give her that, because most season's Survivor's can't help themselves but call out the haters.  Kyle Jason's wife even got into it with people ragging on him and Scot.  And this season, Joe doesn't seem to have any issue picking fights with fans and former cast members.  Kass actually blocked him.  But otherwise, her Twitter didn't turn me into a fan.  It still comes off as better than.

Edited November 21, 2017 by LadyChatts

[peachmangosteen]

3 minutes ago, LadyChatts said:

But otherwise, her Twitter didn't turn me into a fan.  It still comes off as better than.

It does. And she just comes off fake to me, even on twitter. 

Speaking of Joe, I checked his twitter and he is a laugh riot.

[LadyChatts]

37 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It does. And she just comes off fake to me, even on twitter. 

Speaking of Joe, I checked his twitter and he is a laugh riot.

I find his twitter feuds amusing, especially with Fairplay.  It's like picking a fight with Hantz.  Who hasn't gone at it with those two?

And the bravado that this season is lacking in game play is why he's doing so terrible and everyone else is just a sheep. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by LadyChatts

[GenerationX]

I like Chrissy's game.  She's playing a proactive, entertaining, strategic game.  She's hot, too.  She's in my age group so that may skew my opinion, but I have to believe even the young guys find her attractive.

[Special K]

It would be funny if Chrissy and Ryan end up with a Dawn-and-Cochran thing.  I mean they are all very different, but what if Ryan and Chrissy go to the end, and people hate Chrissy more for doing the "dirty work" and end up rewarding Ryan.  Or course if Ben is along, he'll win.

From a fan point-of-view, I would find that fun to watch actually.  But as a feminist I'd  be bummed.

[ProfCrash]

I don't know, Desi might vote for Chrissy over Ryan. Her RHAP interview was clear that she knew that Ryan wasn't willing to play with her and was not genuine. It could be that Desi is willing to vote for Chrissy who was probably more clear in her unwillingness to work with Desi then Ryan who tried to play a social game but was far too transparent.

[himela]

On 18/11/2017 at 1:42 AM, peachmangosteen said:

She isn't being shown as getting hate on the actual show though and that's why I'm not 100% sure it'll come up, which probably means she wins and her social game isn't her downfall or she doesn't make F3.

This is what is bothering me. I mean, I know we only see what the editors want but I feel like I'm being made fun of. 5 women have talked about Chrissy being arrogant, cold, condescending and not liked and we see none of that. Now it's only their word versus her word but I do believe the majority and what I feel in my gut is the truth and for me this is that Chrissy is threatened by other women. I don't accept that all male players are that bad and she didn't see them as threats. Ryan, Ben, Devon are good and strategic players plus they have a good social game.

If Chrissy is in the final two (which I think there will be this season) with JP she wins by default.

(Ewww with this thought...).

[ProfCrash]

Desi's comments make it clear that Ryan's social game is transparent. Desi flat out said that Ryan would have pleasant conversations but it was clear he was not willing to work with her or others outside his alliance. 

I loved that Rob asked Desi about Ryan, Ben and Lauren after the Chrissy questions because all the focus has been on Chrissy. And Desi's answer made it clear that Ryan and Ben were not approachable for an alliance switch. Lauren seemed to be amenable to the idea but stuck with her alliance. I wish that people would ask the voted out contestants about the role that Ryan, Ben and Lauren have played in their ouster. As with other seasons, the media is picking up on the anti-Chrissy vibe and focusing on that in their interviews. We saw how bullying and misogyny became the question of choice during Shirin's (sp) first season. And for good reason, the over all behavior by the men was pretty bad and the bullshit bullying was real. But it meant that the interviewers stopped asking about others.

Do the people voted out really put all of this on Chrissy? Desi doesn't in most of her interviews. Is Chrissy the center piece because of the conversation based on how the show is edited?

I see an alliance that  has voted off players outside of their alliance. Those people happened to be women. I see Ryan, Ben, Chrissy and Lauren discussing who to vote out. Lauren clearly has some faith and pull with Ben, she told him about her advantage. I doubt that the others are all voting out who Chrissy wants.

I think Chrissy can beat JP, Cole, Ryan and Ben. I think Ben has been loud and comes off as controlling to folks. I think people see that Ryan is trying to play a social game but is fake as hell. Cole has his obvious issues and has rubbed a lot of folks the wrong way. JP is barely seen which makes me think he doesn't add much to the game and doesn't win. I suspect Chrissy would win if she is up against Joe because she would get her alliances vote and Joe has really rubbed people the wrong way.

She comes off as cold and defensive to me. Perhaps calculating is a better word then cold. She is not someone I actively rooting for but I respect her game play and I think she is being dumped on.

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Some of it is base don interpretation, a good number of folks here see Chrissy as a woman hating individual while a good number see it as strategic game play and that she is voting as part of a block.

Why not both though? That's how I see it.

[ProfCrash]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Why not both though? That's how I see it.

OK, there is that option as well. Most of the posts seem to be in one camp or the other. Feel free to be difficult. :-) (Emoticons at work are hard to do so accept my old school smiley face.)

[peachmangosteen]

I think a lot of the anti-Chrissy people actually do acknowledge that she's making sound strategic decisions.

[Guest]

14 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think a lot of the anti-Chrissy people actually do acknowledge that she's making sound strategic decisions.

But if they're sound strategic decisions, how can they also be evidence that she hates women?  

[peachmangosteen]

I mean because they'e not mutually exclusive. Also, for me, the mere fact that she's voting out women isn't the evidence I see of her having women issues. But I and others have explained this so many times it's boring for everyone at this point!

Edited November 28, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[cuphead]

Chrissy looks like the middle-aged version of Emma Nelson/MiriamMacDonald from Degrassi.

[Guest]

This double ep was the first time she was getting on my nerves, and I rather enjoyed Lauren's smackdown of her.  I think her disliking Mike bugged me, and complaining about him and Joe being jokers.  Who cares?  I would think it'd be nice to have upbeat, funny people out there.  Though I guess if their brand of humor makes you cringe, it gets old quickly.  

[peachmangosteen]

And for me she was cracking me up in this ep. Her "That was a really tight alliance," line was hilarious. And her taking to her bed after she got blindsided and wanting Mike, who she hates, to fawn all over her was the funniest thing I've seen in awhile.

Edited December 5, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

That line was awesome. I believe that there was an accompanying eye roll...

Her response to Mike and Joe tells me that she likes who she likes and hangs out with who she likes.

I have a different read on the day in bed scene. I think she knew that she needed to back off a bit and change people's perception of her. She chilled out in the bed and reacted to Mike in a manner meant to engender a sympathetic response. I think Mike is really a good guy who wants to help people and went along with it because he is not a dick. Joe, Ashley and Devon were over the top in their reactions after tribal. They were rubbing salt in open wounds. Mike and Lauren seemed to avoid most of that.

Mike and Lauren were also quick to rebuff Chrissy and Ryan's awful attempts to change things after the fact. Interestingly, Lauren and Mike had the same response, neither Ryan or Chrissy them talked game with before the blindside so why approach them now? Lauren's response made more sense, she knew she had three people solidly with her and two votes she could throw away. Mike's response was more problematic because he was willing to buy into being a part of an alliance of five when just a few days ago he was on the bottom. Mike should have known that he moved from the bottom of 9 to the bottom of 5, a vast improvement but still not the final three. Mike should have been open to conversation with Ryan instead of the strong rebuttal that we saw.

Essentially, those scenes (and Desi's interview) point to an alliance of 3 (JP, Chrissy, and Ryan) that was really tight and felt comfortable ignoring everyone else. That includes the other four people in their alliance of seven. Chrissy had some conversations with Ashley and Ben, Ashley spoke to her about Ben and Chrissy went to Ben, but not Lauren and Devon. Ryan talked to Devon but it does not appear that he had much of an alliance with anyone else. They were too comfortable, which led to crappy social game play and an easy blindside.