S03.E16: Part 16

[paigow]

No knock, no doorbell.

[jsbt]

Twin Leaks continues: Part 16 has already leaked to Sky TV in the UK.

[djsunyc]

pretty uneventful episode :)

[Wamboyil]

:-) ALL. 

[TexasGal]

After all these episodes of plodding, I feel certain I missed things in that action packed one!  I don't know which made me more excited, FBICooper is back or Eddie Vedder (squee!).

[Guest]

Ain't gonna lie. I burst out crying when Mike said to Dale, "You are awake." And the waterworks started again when Dale told Janey-E and Sonny Jim he'd walk through the red door and see them again. (I've a feeling that this is not going to be the case.) 

The Audrey shit blew my mind. Diane is a tulpa. Richard is deep fried.

Twin Peaks is the one hour a week that gives me life. I don't mean that lightly. I am horribly saddened that it all ends next week. 

4 minutes ago, Wamboyil said:

:-) ALL. 

What WAS that?!

ETA: I fucking love the Mitchum Brothers. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Guest

[djsunyc]

coop coming back made me smile so much.

i don't think anybody thought diane was a tulpa - that came as a surprise.

is richard in the lodge?  for 25 years?

and looks like audrey really is in a coma.

[Penman61]

So:

Most satisfying payoff in TV history?

or

Most satisfying payoff in TV history EVER?

I can't decide.

[queenbee9b]

14 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

Ain't gonna lie. I burst out crying when Mike said to Dale, "You are awake." And the waterworks started again when Dale told Janey-E and Sonny Jim he'd walk through the red door and see them again. (I've a feeling that this is not going to be the case.) 

The Audrey shit blew my mind. Diane is a tulpa. Richard is deep fried.

Twin Peaks is the one hour a week that gives me life. I don't mean that lightly. I am horribly saddened that it all ends next week. 

What WAS that?!

ETA: I fucking love the Mitchum Brothers. 

I think he might not see him again, but he is having Mike dup him for them because he promised them and real Cooper keeps his word.  

Also, I would watch a spin off with the Mitchum Brothers.  They were so thrilled to have hearts of gold! 

I felt so emotional when Cooper came back and the old score was playing and again during Audrey's dance.  

So speculating - is all the roadhouse in Audrey's mind.  Did we see the fight that we saw to the side before? Was that the James fight from the other week or a different fight?  

[Affogato]

I'm without words allow me to explain at length...? Um .... 

"I am the FBI" 

wow, a series of moments. "dad can drive good."

i liked that.he armed himself. 

Audrey showed the sexuality I remember from the first season in her dance. But. I guess she is waking up from a coma. 

Where is the real Diane?

[Affogato]

40 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

 

Twin Peaks is the one hour a week that gives me life. I don't mean that lightly. I am horribly saddened that it all ends nrxt week.

Every person carries so much history. Richard Horne is a monster but also so much lost potential. It is communicated emotionally but with ....common stories and characters have endings and middles and special hats so you can recognize them and once you figure them out you just watch them play out. Lynch's characters are all born with the pieces to change and grow.!

[TattleTeeny]

Well, let's just say there was a whole lot of "oh my goodness! Oh my god" hollering happening here. I could barely contain myself when Agent Cooper awakened! I may have hopped around a bit!

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, Affogato said:

Where is the real Diane?

She's in the Sheriff's station in Twin Peaks. I presume she's Naido. (Which is sorta like "Diane" backwards except for that "o".)

I rewatched the episode and here's my guess: when Dale gave Mike the piece of his hair and told him to manufacture someone, Mike's going to manufacture another Dougie Jones who's gonna be the one to walk back through the red door. Dale Cooper is no longer of this world. I can't imagine neither one of them will survive next week. I just don't see any way either of them can. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Guest

[jsbt]

Whoo. Okay. So:

I'm assuming there was, once, a real Diane Evans, and that the Bad Dale raped her, took her to the convenience store (which seems to be a kind of floating waystation for Lodge beings, perhaps moving from place to place around the world - maybe that's why they called it "the Dutchman", as in Flying Dutchman) and either destroyed her or imprisoned her - and then replaced her with a tulpa. But the tulpa Diane was too strong-willed and fought its creator's commands, hence the events of tonight. I hope we get some closure on that thread with Diane in the finale. Great showcase for Laura Dern though. You could do a miniseries just about the Diane mystery. So much left unknown.

People had guessed something extra-normal was up with Audrey, and after part 13 I became convinced they were right, even though it's unusual for Lynch to play with multiple levels of reality in the context of Twin Peaks. But then he's done a lot since Twin Peaks, including Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway. I actually thought Coma? Institution? Audrey looked better than overly made up Audrey. I'm glad her character is turning out to be very central after all.

I loved everything with Coop, the Vegas gang and Janey-E and Sonny Jim. It's clear he is creating a new Dougie for them - shades of Ronnie Rocket or One Saliva Bubble - but I wish he would stay with Janey. I love them together. I just hope the new model Dougie is a significant improvement on the old one. Maybe because our Coop makes it?

Edited August 28, 2017 by jsbt

[dosodog]

I can't even express what I'm thinking because there's just so much.

I'm relieved for Jerry.  I just am.

Richard dies, we get confirmation on papa. 

Am I missing something on the :-ALL.

Give the accountant a medal!

I'm now onboard with the Candy is Laura theory.

I've been waiting on you Eddie.  You did not disappoint.

Audrey's dance!  

I just.  Wow!

Looking forward to reading all of your thoughts on tonight's episode.  I get a lot from what you see and your perspectives.

[jsbt]

Something Redditors noticed but I did not - questioning if "Naido" (which means "ruler's property" in Japanese) could somehow be the real Diane. Hence why Diane was asking if she was in the sheriff's station. ???!!!

[Guest]

Just now, jsbt said:

Hence why Diane was asking if she was in the sheriff's station. ???!!!

I don't think she was asking -- she said, declaratively, "I am in the sheriff's station." 

[Pete Martell]

1 minute ago, jsbt said:

Something Redditors noticed but I did not - questioning if "Naido" (which means "ruler's property" in Japanese) could somehow be the real Diane. Hence why Diane was asking if she was in the sheriff's station. ???!!!

Naido is also backwards for "Odian."

Oh Diane indeed.

I do wonder if the show would delve into something that murky with just two hours to go, as I'm not even sure how Cooper, Gordon, Albert would react to that or what Cooper would feel. I guess it would make sense since Naido did save Cooper's life, even at cost to herself, but it would be odd if she lives and just ends up spending her days eyeless, being taken care of by Lucy and Andy. And if she turns into Laura Dern at the end it would probably make the complaints about Piper Laurie in yellowface seem like a field day. 

[Pete Martell]

Of everything in this episode I think what stayed with me most was the way that Chantal and Hutch died. It was borne of complete stupidity and rage on all sides, and played with our expectations in that they were killers, they were terrible people, yet I was still very disturbed by the way they died, and I actually did care. When I saw Hutch sprayed with gunfire and saw how slow the van was going, and realized she was dead or dying as well, I had to pause it for a second, because I did care. 

I think what disturbed me most is that on the surface this was so cheesy, like an action movie from the '80s. I was watching that Jim Jones TV movie a few days ago (I wish some of the cast in that, especially Veronica Cartwright and Brad Dourif, could have been in season 3, but anyway...) and they had the air strip massacre at the end, and even though it was based on a real life tragedy, it felt very cheesy, very manufactured. The scenes with Chantal and Hutch were very much not based on real life, the trope of them as the wacky killers, suddenly gunned down in a way that could have been seen on USA Up All Night years ago, yet it felt real. It felt real because the world is so mad now that something like this - a suburb raining bullets thanks a guy who is pushed too far and has a gun handy - can happen every day. Suddenly it's all real - the jokey comic killers gunned down by fate and by their own hot tempers, by a man who clearly had nothing but rage and a gun he never should have owned. His surrendering to the feds instead of going into a gun battle with them as well meant the scene was allowed to maintain a smaller and more potent sense of shock and ugliness that kept it from being a parody.

As with the shooting up of the Double R, it's a more powerful message about the danger of letting anyone and everyone tote guns than a million dollar ad buy could ever be.

It was the shot of the van slowly teetering down the road that really got to me. It disturbed me in a way almost nothing else by David Lynch ever has. I won't be forgetting it for a while.

Edited August 28, 2017 by Pete Martell

[jsbt]

I suspect JJL and Tim Roth as Chantal and Hutch was kind of a knowing riff on their roles in Tarantino crime flicks and such - wacky killers, etc. - and ultimately they are dispatched without fulfilling their terrible purpose. Which is not to say he disliked their work in films like Hateful Eight, Pulp Fiction and so on, he clearly did like them. But I think in his world those types of characters can only get so far without tripping over their own feet. We saw that in Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway too.

[Jalyn]

2 hours ago, djsunyc said:

and looks like audrey really is in a coma.

I don't think that it is a coma, when she flashed back she was up and looking in a mirror. It looks more like she's been taken somehow. 

I wonder how the casino employee that was beaten and fired over Dougie's winnings would feel about the Mitchum brothers having hearts of gold.

So, Mr. C received the apparently incorrect coordinates from 2 people. Is that Ray & Jefferies? It sounds like Diane was the one that sent the correct ones. So, then, what was :-) ALL supposed to trigger for her? I doubt that Mr. C intended for her to confess everything to Cole and company and get herself killed. So what did he want her to do?

[hoodooznoodooz]

Cool shoot-out.  

I wonder if Chantal was in fact on the rag.  

[newcheese]

44 minutes ago, Jalyn said:

I don't think that it is a coma, when she flashed back she was up and looking in a mirror. It looks more like she's been taken somehow. 

I wonder how the casino employee that was beaten and fired over Dougie's winnings would feel about the Mitchum brothers having hearts of gold.

So, Mr. C received the apparently incorrect coordinates from 2 people. Is that Ray & Jefferies? It sounds like Diane was the one that sent the correct ones. So, then, what was :-) ALL supposed to trigger for her? I doubt that Mr. C intended for her to confess everything to Cole and company and get herself killed. So what did he want her to do?

I thought  :-) ALL meant for Diane to kill Gordon, Albert, and Tammy. After she saw the text, Diane looked in her purse, and the gun was shown.  

[minamurray78]

"I AM THE FBI."  *tears of joy everywhere*

Holy shit.

"People are under a lot of stress, Bradley". Well, I say! Chantal and Hutch finally  met their match. If they had just moved the van, rather than making a scene and pulling a gun (which was insane considering they saw the feds circling Dougie's house), they might still be there waiting. 

I guess Richard really was Mr. C's son like people were speculating? At least that's what he called him when he got fried.

And Audrey wow. I'm not sure what the drawing in her arm means, but then I'm not sure what most of anything means anymore? ?.

Also enjoyed Diane's last words in the black lodge: "Fuck you". 

I thought the "  : - ) ALL "  was a command to kill them all, which is why she drew a gun on them, but it looks like parts of  real Diane were resisting, and she coughed up the story first? 

You'll notice how all my "thoughts" end up in a ??

Edited August 28, 2017 by minamurray78

[Guest]

47 minutes ago, minamurray78 said:

I'm not sure what the drawing in her arm means

I missed that completely! I'll have to rewatch the scene again I guess.

When the first shot of Cooper was in the hospital—in a coma—I said, out loud to no one, "You have got to be kidding me!" The payoff was great but the anxiety this show produces sucks. 

Thought this was helpful re: Diane/Naido:

Edited August 28, 2017 by Guest

[dwmckim]

Second week in a row TP made me cry.  I'm so not ready for it to be over next week!  At least the Mark Frost book is coming up soon after to aid in the severe withdrawals whether or not we get a season 4 (though my biggest fear is that it will be wrapped up in such a way that would make a S4 pointless - a clear end to the story.)

(Of course if a fourth season is indeed possible and it doesn't get renewed, i predict Showtime will be flooded with photos of Diane reading "Fuck you, Showtime!")

 

And btw Sonny Jim did the "YOU'RE my dad - YOU'RE my dad" SO much better than Donna! 

Edited August 28, 2017 by dwmckim

[IDFfm0870]

I AM THE FBI 

Yes you are man, yes you are. So good to have you back in the game Agent Dale :)

Richard's a goner, or is he?

Diane is a tulpa. What happened to original Diane?

Chantal and Hutch, I'll miss your crazy discussions.

And Audrey's still got it. You go girl. So long Janey-E.

I'm so in love with this show.

[Cheezwiz]

I can't believe we're almost at the end. I teared up at a few points:

• When zippy ultra-competent professional Dale Cooper finally re-awakened, and he had to say goodbye to his make-shift temporary family.
• He bid farewell in the kindest way possible though. I think the theory that others have posted about him having Mike fashion a new Dougie for the family is correct - he may walk back through that red door, but it won't be Agent Cooper. Which makes me worry about what will happen to real Agent Cooper in the finale.
• Eddie Vedder made me cry for some reason as well. Maybe because when the original Twin Peaks aired Pearl Jam were in their heyday, and so much time has passed since then.

Was surprised Evil Coop had Junior fried so quickly - I thought he might keep him around a bit longer and use him in some way to further his own ends. So long Richard, you won't be missed.

Who knew accountants could be so badass? A fittingly ignoble demise for Chantal & Hutch.

I was puzzled by the :-) ALL, so I appreciate the explanations.

Dying DYING to know what's up with Audrey - it seems she's in the process of reawakening from whatever state she's in. This ep had me fooled, because when I saw her and Charlie enter the Roadhouse, I thought "oh they're out and about in the real world, maybe she's not in a coma after all", and then we get the jump cut to her staring into a mirror wearing what looked like hospital whites. The fight that broke out during her dance did appear to be the same fight that James was in last week, so it appears timelines are being played with.

I'm so sad we only get one more weekend to look forward to this. I wonder if we'll ever find out who JUDY is.

[Ms Lark]

5 hours ago, Penman61 said:

Most satisfying payoff in TV history?

No offense, but I wouldn't really call it a payoff. To me it was more like, "It took David Lynch 16 freakin' episodes to get to Twin Peaks (the show, not the location)?" This episode was Twin Peaks at long last. Possibly because it ain't TP without Agent Cooper, not brain-dead Dougie stumbling around Las Vegas. I can't believe I made it this far since it has been a study in tedium. I felt the same about Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway, so YMMV.

I now have some hope for the final two episodes! 'Bout time.

[Cheezwiz]

5 hours ago, djsunyc said:

is richard in the lodge?  for 25 years?

When he was getting fried and we saw the heavy volumes of smoke, I almost wondered if he was being turned into one of those awful charred smoke hobos instead.

[dwmckim]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

When he was getting fried and we saw the heavy volumes of smoke, I almost wondered if he was being turned into one of those awful charred smoke hobos instead.

"Obviously, SOMETHING requires burning...and since we don't want to set fire to your smoked cheese pig..."

[Affogato]

5 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Cool shoot-out.  

I wonder if Chantal was in fact on the rag.  

Or pregnant, choosing food over torture. Best not delve too deeply......

[Pete Martell]

1 hour ago, Ms Lark said:

No offense, but I wouldn't really call it a payoff. To me it was more like, "It took David Lynch 16 freakin' episodes to get to Twin Peaks (the show, not the location)?" This episode was Twin Peaks at long last. Possibly because it ain't TP without Agent Cooper, not brain-dead Dougie stumbling around Las Vegas. I can't believe I made it this far since it has been a study in tedium. I felt the same about Mulholland Drive and Lost Highway, so YMMV.

I now have some hope for the final two episodes! 'Bout time.

I'm probably in the minority but it was the long break from Dale that made me feel more invested when he did return. Admittedly I was never that invested in Cooper, so I'm not able to see it from that perspective, but I think there was a lot of material with his return yesterday that felt more alive and fresh because of the long absence. I also think that his inherent goodness and decency did a lot to shape the Vegas arc and the people Dougie encountered (they all became good and decent people, with the exception of Ike the Spike).

I can definitely see why people had enough though as I did a few times. It's just the overall story arc and the characters and performances that I really appreciated.

[Affogato]

I'm assuming Richard was fried in a trap only the cooper DNA could set off. A very specific trap. Dark Cooper is a user. 

Also means good Cooper can survive by sacrificing a manufactured clone/Tulpa  at some point or by convincing dark Cooper to take the 'wrong' door. The red door image is to me possibly significant. Dark Cooper wants to avoid the red room .

Why would Naido look nothing like Diane? White duke's tin machine changes a woman!

For a moment I wondered if Lucy was Diane. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Which makes me worry about what will happen to real Agent Cooper in the finale.

I've been dreading his ultimate fate for quite some time. I just don't see how Agent Dale Cooper, after a 25-year absence confined in a netherworld, and a string of horrible crimes (done by his doppleganger) behind him, simply goes back to life on Earth as normal. 

 

3 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

Eddie Vedder made me cry for some reason as well.

That scene got me, too. The song was so mournful. I put the closed captions when I watched it again, and maybe it was the lyrics? 

Quote

Can't climb to heaven on the cross
One liar's promise drained the blood from my heart
Came a message in the dark
Offered the hand of a disembodied man
While I still had the chance

Now it's gone, gone
And I am who I am
Who I was I will never be again
Running out of sand

 

3 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

I wonder if we'll ever find out who JUDY is

My guess is a solid "yes" on that one. But we're not going to talk about that. ;)

[Affogato]

59 minutes ago, Giant Misfit said:

I've been dreading his ultimate fate for quite some time. I just don't see how Agent Dale Cooper, after a 25-year absence confined in a netherworld, and a string of horrible crimes (done by his doppleganger) behind him, simply goes back to life on Earth as normal. 

There is going to be the possibility of a sequel or continuation because, like the Bene Gesserit, Lynch understands the importance of an open ended system.  I don't mean there will be a sequel.  I mean whenever it ends the story will have one foot raised, taking the next step. 

I felt at the beginning of season two Cooper was ready to retire and fish with Harry. 

 

I think him him wanting to be with his family is plausible. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Affogato

[Affogato]

I also think it is possible we'll have alternate universe endings. 

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, Cheezwiz said:

When he was getting fried and we saw the heavy volumes of smoke, I almost wondered if he was being turned into one of those awful charred smoke hobos instead.

This is still possible.  If we go back to the dutchmans we may see a flash of his face. 

Edited August 28, 2017 by Affogato

[jamblastx]

9 hours ago, Pete Martell said:

Of everything in this episode I think what stayed with me most was the way that Chantal and Hutch died. It was borne of complete stupidity and rage on all sides, and played with our expectations in that they were killers, they were terrible people, yet I was still very disturbed by the way they died, and I actually did care. When I saw Hutch sprayed with gunfire and saw how slow the van was going, and realized she was dead or dying as well, I had to pause it for a second, because I did care. 

I think what disturbed me most is that on the surface this was so cheesy, like an action movie from the '80s. I was watching that Jim Jones TV movie a few days ago (I wish some of the cast in that, especially Veronica Cartwright and Brad Dourif, could have been in season 3, but anyway...) and they had the air strip massacre at the end, and even though it was based on a real life tragedy, it felt very cheesy, very manufactured. The scenes with Chantal and Hutch were very much not based on real life, the trope of them as the wacky killers, suddenly gunned down in a way that could have been seen on USA Up All Night years ago, yet it felt real. It felt real because the world is so mad now that something like this - a suburb raining bullets thanks a guy who is pushed too far and has a gun handy - can happen every day. Suddenly it's all real - the jokey comic killers gunned down by fate and by their own hot tempers, by a man who clearly had nothing but rage and a gun he never should have owned. His surrendering to the feds instead of going into a gun battle with them as well meant the scene was allowed to maintain a smaller and more potent sense of shock and ugliness that kept it from being a parody.

As with the shooting up of the Double R, it's a more powerful message about the danger of letting anyone and everyone tote guns than a million dollar ad buy could ever be.

It was the shot of the van slowly teetering down the road that really got to me. It disturbed me in a way almost nothing else by David Lynch ever has. I won't be forgetting it for a while.

I cannot say that the passing of Chantal and Hutch affect me as much as it did you Pete, but I would agree that the van rolling down the road silently was extremely creepy and disturbing for some reason

[luna1122]

What an amazing episode. I cried too at Coop's awakening, and the theme song swelled up,  and then"I am the FBI"....it was all so emotional. I don't want Coop with Janey-E, but I do believe he's sending a new Dougie for them. Hopefully, a more competent, talky, driving Dougie.

Love all the Diane/Naido theories.

Jennifer Jason Leigh is probably well past being 'on the rag', but she looks 20 years younger, so there's that. I loved watching her power-eat all those Cheetos.

Words fail me when it comes to this show. There's so much to discuss, so many emotions evoked, so much beauty and weirdness, that i just lose my power of speech and eloquence. I"m so sad it's almost over.

Edward Louis Severson!! That was so beautiful, so mournful.

And then Audrey's dance...also beautiful.

just...wow.

[dawnsupergrass]

I'm curious about the ring. Coop was given the ring with the symbol on it and put it under the pillow when Sonny Jim and Janey-E came back into the hospital room and then I didn't see him retrieve it.

[Pete Martell]

I keep hoping that we'll get some final closure on Diane (if she is Naido that will be something in of itself - I just selfishly wanted to see Dern play the real Diane, even just for a moment), but sometimes I wonder if Lynch wanted Diane to remain a permanent mystery. It's very clever - Diane was the biggest mystery of the original show to many fans, even more than who killed Laura, and we finally see her, we see her for months, but she leaves with question marks the only trace of what once was. It's like the old saying about a riddle wrapped inside an enigma. 

It was strange to see the moment where she was sitting at the bar while the Twin Peaks theme wound down, or when we saw her in the Black Lodge, defiant to the end. Just seeing Diane, or Laura Dern, in the Red Room felt so surreal. I was never completely sure if Dern would fit into the Twin Peaks universe or if it would just come across as a vanity choice in casting, given Lynch's long history with her, but somehow she fit in perfectly, yet she also didn't, because that was the whole point of Diane - familiar and unfamiliar.

Her monologue in her last scene with "the old gang" was extremely disturbing, especially knowing that she was living someone else's memories, and that this likely made the experience even worse, knowing this was her reason for existence. And because this was the first time she'd said any of this, and she knew it would be the last. The part where she mentioned that she and Cooper had kissed before that once - briefly - was one of the saddest moments, because of what he took from her - her relationship with Dale, friendship and flirtation and all the rest, for his own sickness. 

I can't imagine anyone but Laura Dern playing this part and giving so much which wouldn't have been on the page. I can see why Lynch has always had such faith in her.

[jamblastx]

As this is now sadly ending, I am truly amazed at the journey we have been on this season.  From the anticipation and initial disappointment that this was not going to be the same Twin Peaks from 25 years ago but then the building bits of intrigue that has made this iteration just as compelling as the original series.  While I initially did not like the whole Dougie Jones arc and portrayal, it grew on me...and I became concerned what would happen to Janey E and Sonny Jim once Dale inevitably woke up.  And then when he did...man, it was worth it...so much more compelling even though he essentially will be in only two episodes.

I know that there is supposedly no plans for season 4, but my god, I am not ready to let go of this world yet.  18 hours should have been more than enough to tell this story but I know there is so much more to tell and I can only hope and pray that we will NOT get everything wrapped up in a nice tidy little bow.  While I had originally hated that the originally series ended on so many cliffhangers, over the years I appreciated it more and thought it was one of the best series finales ever, it also gave the impetus to eventually have a season three....and 25 years later to boot.  An open end may spur on Showtime and David Lynch make a season four....at least I am hoping that it will....but let's make this happen a little sooner than 25 years

[minamurray78]

I'm curious about the tulpa thing. Diane seemed to notice there was something wrong with her near the end. She clearly had memories of original Diane, although it seems the incident with Mr. C was obscured, either by trauma or by his design. I'm also unclear how he got her to answer to him, either under threat or again, by his design. But when she arrived at the black lodge she seemed aware of it all.

Dougie was different. We didn't see enough of him to know whether he had any of Dale's memories, but he looked baffled in front of Mike, like he had no clue what was going on. Was Mr. C keeping in contact with him like with Diane? Was Dougie created totally "blank"? If so, maybe the second Dougie Dale asked Mike to create could perhaps be improved. I'm sorry, but I just want Janey-E and Sonny Jim to have a happy ending.

[Penman61]

I feel like I haven't worked out the whole doppleganger/manufactured person thing.  And I feel like I'd better before the finale, lol.

For instance, I thought we were told that the doppleganger and original can't co-exist simultaneously in our world.  

Yet Cooper (fully aware) and BadCooper now do, correct?  (And it appears they are heading for a showdown.)

Also, was BadDiane a doppleganger or a manufactured person (like Dougie Jones)?

If someone has a link to a Vox Explainer on this, would be much appreciated. :)

[minamurray78]

28 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I feel like I haven't worked out the whole doppleganger/manufactured person thing.  And I feel like I'd better before the finale, lol.

For instance, I thought we were told that the doppleganger and original can't co-exist simultaneously in our world.  

Yet Cooper (fully aware) and BadCooper now do, correct?  (And it appears they are heading for a showdown.)

Also, was BadDiane a doppleganger or a manufactured person (like Dougie Jones)?

If someone has a link to a Vox Explainer on this, would be much appreciated. :)

I think BadDiane was a manufactured person like Dougie. When she went up in smoke in the Black Lodge, she left behind a golden snitch just like Dougie did (I think Dale called it "seed" when he talked to Mike).

I guess this manufactured tulpas can coexist in the same realm as the real person as if an extra spot had been created? I think Mr. C created Dougie so that when Dale tried to return, he would end up in Dougie's place rather than pushing Bob back in the Black Lodge. That's how I made sense of it, I might be wrong.

[Cheezwiz]

43 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

I feel like I haven't worked out the whole doppleganger/manufactured person thing.  And I feel like I'd better before the finale, lol.

For instance, I thought we were told that the doppleganger and original can't co-exist simultaneously in our world.  

Yet Cooper (fully aware) and BadCooper now do, correct?  (And it appears they are heading for a showdown.)

Also, was BadDiane a doppleganger or a manufactured person (like Dougie Jones)?

If someone has a link to a Vox Explainer on this, would be much appreciated. :)

I find this part of the mythology confusing as well.

As I understood it, it seems as though in the Black Lodge Lynchian universe, there seems to be a term limit for evil doppelgangers. They must return to the lodge at some point. EvilCoop created a tulpa, Dougie Jones, as a decoy, so that Evil Coop could stay out and continue his mayhem, while Dougie got sucked back into the lodge. His plans were altered by Mike (the one armed man) who released GoodCoop to assume Dougie's life in Vegas. You saw Evil Coop fighting his return to the lodge in that awful vomit scene when he was driving the car in the desert. I guess Good/Evil Coopers were able to coexist on the same plane via the vehicle of Dougie.

Diane is also a tulpa, I have no idea who created her (EvilCoop?) or who the real Diane is (Naido? not sure why she looks different if that's the case).

Something that has stumped me is why EvilCoop was apparently sentient right out the gate, while GoodCoop was barely functional when he re-emerged from the lodge.

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, Cheezwiz said:

I find this part of the mythology confusing as well.

As I understood it, it seems as though in the Black Lodge Lynchian universe, there seems to be a term limit for evil doppelgangers. They must return to the lodge at some point. EvilCoop created a tulpa, Dougie Jones, as a decoy, so that Evil Coop could stay out and continue his mayhem, while Dougie got sucked back into the lodge. His plans were altered by Mike (the one armed man) who released GoodCoop to assume Dougie's life in Vegas. You saw Evil Coop fighting his return to the lodge in that awful vomit scene when he was driving the car in the desert. I guess Good/Evil Coopers were able to coexist on the same plane via the vehicle of Dougie.

Diane is also a tulpa, I have no idea who created her (EvilCoop?) or who the real Diane is (Naido? not sure why she looks different if that's the case).

Something that has stumped me is why EvilCoop was apparently sentient right out the gate, while GoodCoop was barely functional when he re-emerged from the lodge.

Also puzzled.

There is something about shadowself. You meet and conquer your shadowself in the lodge on your way to perfection. 2nd season? I think dark coop is Cooper's shadowself and they will meet and, to borrow a phrase, there can be only one. I think this is where he/they are headed.

The spacial contraption could be a gigantic dictating machine. But I digress. 

I think albert's blue rose story indicates a tulpa could be a shadow self.  However there are also manufactured beings. Maybe those are the tulpas exclusively and the blue rose story was about one of the fakes. Maybe naido is Diane's shadow self, much altered by sound waves. Diane herself is elsewhere, maybe in that dimension where garland was, and the constructed one we just saw go poof was just that, set into place along with dougie by dark Cooper. 

The ring is a puzzler. Is coop to put the ring on dark Cooper or defend himself from bob?

Edited August 28, 2017 by Affogato
On phone can't spell

[Affogato]

8 hours ago, dawnsupergrass said:

I'm curious about the ring. Coop was given the ring with the symbol on it and put it under the pillow when Sonny Jim and Janey-E came back into the hospital room and then I didn't see him retrieve it.

I'll go check..

[JustCrazy]

17 hours ago, Jalyn said:

I don't think that it is a coma, when she flashed back she was up and looking in a mirror. It looks more like she's been taken somehow. 

I wonder how the casino employee that was beaten and fired over Dougie's winnings would feel about the Mitchum brothers having hearts of gold.

So, Mr. C received the apparently incorrect coordinates from 2 people. Is that Ray & Jefferies? It sounds like Diane was the one that sent the correct ones. So, then, what was :-) ALL supposed to trigger for her? I doubt that Mr. C intended for her to confess everything to Cole and company and get herself killed. So what did he want her to do?

I think the bang bang bar is some kind of pergatory like place.  I don't remember which episode, but the one with 5 minutes of a younf nman sweeping thr bar floor.  Jacque Renault was behind the bar.  He was killed by Lealand/Bob.  We've only seen James, and now Audrey, from the original series.  The bar seems to be some kind of limbo space.  

17 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Cool shoot-out.  

I wonder if Chantal was in fact on the rag.  

What a horrible way to die...on the rag and without cheetoes, stuck in a van.  ?