Past Seasons Talk: From Seattle Grace to Grey Sloan Memorial Hospital

[upperco]

I find Ameila very like her brother. But when they do similar things he gets praise and she gets criticised. It's strange I don't understand it.

 

Although both characters have imperfections in both their personalities and designs, Derek was always more consistently rendered than Amelia, my dislike of whom has been unshakable since her days on PRIVATE PRACTICE. I agree that they may be similar (or that the series tried to show that they were similar in the brief number of episodes during which they shared scenes), but I think part of what bothers me about Amelia's characterization is that her sudden bursts of vulnerability are such calculated efforts on behalf of the writers to justify her arrogance and make her seem complex. Derek, though smug and self-loving, had a bit more humility, and didn't need such manipulations to be accepted by the audience. He was shamefully shallow (and by that I mean, the writers didn't imbue him with a lot of depth outside of his relationship with Meredith -- especially in the latter half of his tenure), but he was always in possession of redeeming qualities that were inherent to his character from the beginning. That's not been the case with Amelia. I think it's a significant difference. 

[jaytee1812]

But why do we need to see Amelia as vulnerable to accept her? I don't think we ever saw Derek as vulnerable. He was shown as shallow, self-centred and egotistical. We sympathised with him when he killed someone due to his own arrogance. Yet Amelia is criticised for saving someone who thought she had a death sentence.

[BaseOps]

Although both characters have imperfections in both their personalities and designs, Derek was always more consistently rendered than Amelia, my dislike of whom has been unshakable since her days on PRIVATE PRACTICE. I agree that they may be similar (or that the series tried to show that they were similar in the brief number of episodes during which they shared scenes), but I think part of what bothers me about Amelia's characterization is that her sudden bursts of vulnerability are such calculated efforts on behalf of the writers to justify her arrogance and make her seem complex. Derek, though smug and self-loving, had a bit more humility, and didn't need such manipulations to be accepted by the audience. He was shamefully shallow (and by that I mean, the writers didn't imbue him with a lot of depth outside of his relationship with Meredith -- especially in the latter half of his tenure), but he was always in possession of redeeming qualities that were inherent to his character from the beginning. That's not been the case with Amelia. I think it's a significant difference. 

 

But why do we need to see Amelia as vulnerable to accept her? I don't think we ever saw Derek as vulnerable. He was shown as shallow, self-centred and egotistical. We sympathised with him when he killed someone due to his own arrogance. Yet Amelia is criticised for saving someone who thought she had a death sentence.

 

My issue with Amelia is how she treats others. Here's something that I think stretches beyond her character (mostly in the last several seasons): With such a large cast, the writers get lazy and bend characters to fit other stories - when they're doing something with Callie, for example, they may bend the character of Alex or April or Bailey to fit a beat in her story, to prop her up or push her along. So sometimes we have moments that feel very out of character - often that's doctors yelling in hallways, or making rude remarks. With Amelia, that's her entire character. Since she joined the show she's been obnoxious, demeaning, rude, and has caused scenes in the halls of the hospital countless times. She has a God complex that isn't interesting, it's crude and annoying. 

 

Derek certainly came off as an ass at times, but that usually felt like development to me (everyone IS an ass, sometimes.) Meredith certainly isn't perfect. Same goes for Callie, Alex, etc. etc. But we've watched them develop, and so when they have a beat that's odd, it usually can be justified. With Amelia, it's non-stop awfulness all the time. The way she treated everyone around her was ridiculous. She up and moved to Seattle and then acted like she owned the hospital. I loved Cristina for her no-nonsen, take-no-shit, unapologetic attitude - but it doesn't translate the same with Amelia. Like I said before, she literally went on a tirade at nearly every character that she interacted with, from Meredith and Derek, to Callie (talking down to her about being in ortho vs. cardio), Owen, Herman, Stephanie, etc. And her "dead Derek" jokes were ridiculous. She's just an awfully written character portrayed by a very sub-par actress, in my opinion. 

[jaytee1812]

Really? Amelia had some of my favourite moments, mostly when she put Detek in his place. But I actually loved her confessing to Derek how scared she was of falling for Owen.

I think the actress is great, but she was caught between a rock and a hard place being constantly compared to 'McDreamy' ugh.

[BaseOps]

Really? Amelia had some of my favourite moments, mostly when she put Detek in his place. But I actually loved her confessing to Derek how scared she was of falling for Owen.

I think the actress is great, but she was caught between a rock and a hard place being constantly compared to 'McDreamy' ugh.

 

Like I said, my issue with her was never a comparison to Derek because I never really cared for Derek anyway. This is a huge ensemble show with a very large audience, so people will always gravitate to different characters. For me, Amelia just doesn't work, and she took a lot away from my enjoyment of the show in season 11. 

Edited September 10, 2015 by BaseOps

[izabella]

I'm lucky - Amelia doesn't bug me at all.

 

Teddy, on the other hand, was pure torture for me the entire time she was on the show.  I was so incredibly happy when she left!

[Nobodysfan]

I'm lucky - Amelia doesn't bug me at all.

 

Teddy, on the other hand, was pure torture for me the entire time she was on the show.  I was so incredibly happy when she left!

 

For me both are equally horrible characters,but Teddy was sb I could put up with when she was with Henry although I liked only one scene Raver acted brilliantly when Teddy went to the operating room and cried over the dead body of Henry. To be honest, I liked the goodbye scene between Teddy and Owen.

 

Haha, but the "best " was Teddy with fake eyelashes in the war zone flashback episode. Honestly,nothing is more unreal than this.

 

All in all, I honestly do not understand that people can say  Scorsone is a great actress in the way she plays Amelia. I am a very critical viewer and have issues with Teddy but Kim Raver can have depth in her acting when given a well-written scene, but Scorsone is awful in the role of Amelia all the time whatever script she gets. I may not like a character but when I see the actress/actor does a mighty fine job in scenes, I am on board and can enjoy them or appreciate them, but with CS and her Amelia I am at my wits´ end.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[Nanda]

 

My issue with Amelia is how she treats others

My issue with her start before than that, starts at herself. Cristina  was lively, playful, cheerful, fun and full of life. This one is such a drag. Those kind of people who I call emotional indigents. Always in crisis.

If only  the actress didn't try so hard to hold up a permanent state of 'depth' in her acting it wouldn't come out as a show off and  forced and unnatural.

 

Raver when she wanted could deliver some good scenes apart her two facial expressions due to botox. But no one can say she seemed a deranged, uncontrolled histerycal like Scorsone in her daily  yelling and lack of self-control routine at the hospital.

 

Besides that, the flak Teddy got was because she tried to get in the middle of C/O. Amelia is disliked on her own.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Nanda

[jaytee1812]

Christina lived a privileged life and never had to struggle for anything. Amelia saw her father murdered, and is an addict who struggles through every day. They're not exactly similar.

[Nanda]

Cristina saw her father die in front of her eyes as a consequence of a car crash at 9 y o. In fact she put her hands in her father's chest and felt his heart stop beating. That experience was so emotionally striking that was what drove her to become a doctor and do everything to be the best one. So, Amelia's father death made her an addict, Cristina's father death  made her want to be the best Cardiothoracic surgeon to help others.  I suspect for what I've seen in this season (bc I never saw PP) that Amelia's drive is toward herself, everything revolves around her, while Cristina's drive is more toward others. In that stance Amelia seems to be like Owen, everything  they do, even for others, ultimately fulfills the function of relieve their  internal discomfort.

Besides that, Amelia got to grow up with a warm, caring, nurturing, involved mother  whereas Cristina got to grow up with a self involved mother and Beverly Hills house wife whose only concern was to make of her another Beverly H. little housewife in her likeness. So,  at the end of the day Amelia doesn't have a pass.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Nanda

[jaytee1812]

Amelia is an addict, nothing 'makes' you an addict. It is an illness not a personality defect.!

[photo fox]

I don't see why it's an either/or with Amelia and Cristina. Just because they're pushing Amelia and Owen together? They're independent characters, and never even really had anything to do with each other when they were both on the show. Amelia is no substitute for Cristina, but I didn't think she was supposed to be.

[Nanda]

Amelia is an addict, nothing 'makes' you an addict. It is an illness not a personality defect

 

This is a wide spread notion that's going on for decades but is falling into disuse. Addictive behavior is a symptom, not a disease .It's the new aproach.

It was my intention to put the words 'made' in to quotation marks, but I totally forgot.  What I meant was: "made" her an addict, Cristina's father death  "made" her want to be the best Cardiothoracic surgeon to help others. "Made" her in the sense that contributed  for.

Edited September 11, 2015 by Nanda

[Nanda]

 

I don't see why it's an either/or with Amelia and Cristina. Just because they're pushing Amelia and Owen together? They're independent characters, and never even really had anything to do with each other when they were both on the show. Amelia is no substitute for Cristina, but I didn't think she was supposed to be.

 

Yes, but it's inevitable people compare them both. It was expected that any woman that would come after Cris would be looked down.

And the similarities btw them make people presuppose Shonda tried to "recast" the character. However, if that was her intention it was an epic fail. I understand  that she might have thought that to replace a character/actress like Cristina/Oh she had  to resort toanother actress / character she considers to be the last wonder of technology. But again fail. There's no substitute for Cristina, that's the problem. Maybe if Shonda had tried the 'the completely opposite of Cristina' route it would be felt as total break with the past and a genuine atempt for a new life for Owen. Thus to me it seems she's using another Cris to further Hunt's SL, which in the end leads directly to Swiss.

[Guest]

Re. Derek and Amelia, I felt like the majority of the time that he was ridiculous and/or a jerk, the show acknowledged it. Either through Cristina rolling her eyes at him, Meredith fighting with him, or him being kicked down by someone else on the show.  With Amelia, she's obnoxious and/or ridiculous and we're supposed to be on her side.  

 

I never liked Cristina either, but she was 10 times better than Amelia.

[Nobodysfan]

My issue with her start before than that, starts at herself. Cristina  was lively, playful, cheerful, fun and full of life. This one is such a drag. Those kind of people who I call emotional indigents. Always in crisis.

If only  the actress didn't try so hard to hold up a permanent state of 'depth' in her acting it wouldn't come out as a show off and  forced and unnatural.

 

Raver when she wanted could deliver some good scenes apart her two facial expressions due to botox. But no one can say she seemed a deranged, uncontrolled histerycal like Scorsone in her daily  yelling and lack of self-control routine at the hospital.

 

Besides that, the flak Teddy got was because she tried to get in the middle of C/O. Amelia is disliked on her own.

You are my soulmate here, Nanda. I totally agree with you.

[Nobodysfan]

Re. Derek and Amelia, I felt like the majority of the time that he was ridiculous and/or a jerk, the show acknowledged it. Either through Cristina rolling her eyes at him, Meredith fighting with him, or him being kicked down by someone else on the show.  With Amelia, she's obnoxious and/or ridiculous and we're supposed to be on her side.  

A wonderful post. Truthful. S11 was unwatchable for me because of how they pushed hysterical Amelia into my face episode after episode.

[jaytee1812]

This is a wide spread notion that's going on for decades but is falling into disuse. Addictive behavior is a symptom, not a disease .It's the new aproach.

 

By people who went to medical school? Implying that someone addiction is the addict's faults is awful, even when it is a fictional character.

 

I never liked Cristina either, but she was 10 times better than Amelia.

 

Is that the Christina who laughed at someone being left at the aisle, even though she was a pathetic wreck when it happened to her? The same one who stabbed her closest friend in a desperate attempt to show how good she was at surgery? I always think Cristina and Meredith made such good friends because no-one is as awful as them. 

[represent]

 

Christina lived a privileged life and never had to struggle for anything.

Financially, the Shepard children never had to struggle. Maybe they weren't Beverly Hills rich like Cristina's stepfather, but they weren't poor. Mark on the other hand was like an orphan because he became like their adoptive brother and they took him in. Cristina had to struggle due to the same childhood trauma that Amelia had to suffer through. Watching your dad die a bloody death and being unable to save him.

 

But,

Cristina, had  even more of a struggle than Amelia seeing as she had dyslexia a learning disorder and a mother who lacked warmth to connect with her daughter and who was utterly superficial.

 

So, I'll have to disagree with the idea that Cristina  never had to struggle for anything. I'd say getting to where she got in her academic and professional careers with a learning disorder and no support or connection with the only biological parent she had left is plenty struggle. Beverly Hills doesn't matter especially since I've never gotten the impression that Amelia and the Shepards had any financial struggles. Amelia can take a ticket and stand in line either next to Cristina or behind her but sure as hell not in front of  her when it comes to cornering a market on struggle. And Meredith had no damn parents, she didn't have a learning disability but she had no damn parents, which was made worse because it wasn't like they died. Those two wolves were alive, one treated her like shit and the other flat out took care of his other children and acted like she was um, dead. So yeah, sit down Amelia.

Edited September 11, 2015 by represent

[Nobodysfan]

Financially, the Shepard children never had to struggle. Maybe they weren't Beverly Hills rich like Cristina's stepfather, but they weren't poor. Mark on the other hand was like an orphan because he became like their adoptive brother and they took him in. Cristina had to struggle due to the same childhood trauma that Amelia had to suffer through. Watching your dad die a bloody death and being unable to save him.

 

But,

Cristina, had  even more of a struggle than Amelia seeing as she had dyslexia a learning disorder and a mother who lacked warmth to connect with her daughter and who was utterly superficial.

 

So, I'll have to disagree with the idea that Cristina  never had to struggle for anything. I'd say getting to where she got in her academic and professional careers with a learning disorder and no support or connection with the only biological parent she had left is plenty struggle. Beverly Hills doesn't matter especially since I've never gotten the impression that Amelia and the Shepards had any financial struggles. Amelia can take a ticket and stand in line either next to Cristina or behind her but sure as hell not in front of  her when it comes to cornering a market on struggle. And Meredith had no damn parents, she didn't have a learning disability but she had no damn parents, which was made worse because it wasn't like they died. Those two wolves were alive, one treated her like shit and the other flat out took care of his other children and acted like she was um, dead. So yeah, sit down Amelia.

Tell it like it is, represent.

 

And stupid Amelia even made fun of Cristina´s learning disability in 703. What a jerk she is. Nothing but a jerk to me.

[Guest]

When was it revealed Cristina had a learning disability? I haven't been watching as closely as I used to because... well, because it is not interesting to me like it was.

 

Cristina was so often completely unempathetic, rude, and just mean.  Yet, it was all justified (on the show) because she watched her dad die.  Whereas other characters went through just as much or worse, and they should just get over it.

 

I think every main character has been shown to have struggles in life but only in the cases of Cristina and Amelia are those struggled portrayed as excuses for every single character flaw they have.

[represent]

When was it revealed Cristina had a learning disability? I haven't been watching as closely as I used to because... well, because it is not interesting to me like it was.

Cristina was so often completely unempathetic, rude, and just mean

 

 

 

 

She was very empathetic to me. Meaning I empathized with her inability and fear of showing empathy. But I just loved the character even when she was wrong and I liked when she was taught lessons. Sometimes it was overkill and I was like OK, move on and let her learn her lesson. This Cristina robot shit is exactly that, because I didn't see it. To me she was the type of person who was  afraid to feel, but not one that was unfeeling. Never bought that, maybe it was the way the actress played it, but I always got that if she actually acknowledge all those feelings she felt she would lose control and that was a no, no, in her mind if she were going to become a successful surgeon. That was actually part of the characters long arc of internal growth to realize and not be afraid of feelings that come from the connections you make and acknowledge, actually make you a better surgeon. I just adored this character and all her flaws.

 

Yeah I forgot the season, I think it was season four, because George had failed the intern exam.  I think Lexie was trying to help George so she broke into Webber's files and George found her doing so, and she started to read all of the MAGIC's files. In Cristina's she read aloud that Cristina had dyslexia with all these recommendations and first in her class, George had even more recommendations, I think Alex "lied" LOL, and his file said that he had testicular cancer and think only had one ball left, gotta love Karev. Izzie's had stuff on her financial struggles,oh it wasn't specifics on her financial state but all the jobs that she worked while putting herself through school. I don't think she read anything from Meredith's file though...at least I don't remember anything on her.

 

Oh, yeah and speaking of struggle how could I forget Karev, I actually would just about put him at the front of the line before all of them. The poverty and mental illness that has plagued his family in which he from the time he was boy has been the only one managing it, yeah, he takes the prize IMO. Because he has had no support all his life, he can't even count on one sibling, it's just always been him, alone.

Edited September 11, 2015 by represent

[Nanda]

 

By people who went to medical school?

Precisely by those. Non academics can't derive this kind of conclusions, right? It was not me who invented the notion!

 

 Implying that someone addiction is the addict's faults is awful, even when it is a fictional character.

Obviously!  That was the trend among doctors and the community before the 'disease trend'. After the disease trend they are now moving to a new concept. It's advised to keep in touch.

[Nanda]

I agree with represent, Cristina never had lack of empathy. She had plenty of that. She has a deep understanding of other feelings and the show had plenty of scenes where that was shown very clear. She was compassionate too but not in an ostensible way. Her problem was not being able to let her guard down in what concerns feelings for/of other people or situations. Bc as represent said she was afraid to lo lose herself in them. She couldn't afford that, she had to be the best. So, she uses dark, twisted sarcasm to divert from that difficulty bc it's easier than dealing with those hard feelings.  Saying Cristina is a robot is a poor excuse to avoid to see the character in depth.

I'm remembering the single malt scotch scene with her and Owen in the oncall room in S5. She came in saying the wife of the beating victim was there and wanted to talk to him (Owen) and he from the top of his mighty horse of high principles asked her in a judgemental tone : 'What's is name? I wonder if you asked his name so that he can become a person to you. They're all people Yang, this is not a contest, or  a game or a competition to see who gets surgery or who doesn't. They're people and we get to save them. You're good, you are excellent, you   could win all the contests, but if that's why  you're doing this you shouldn't be. So you just find his name." Her answer to him left him stunned and should be enough to show that she is everything but superficial. She explained the true reason behind her competitiveness and showed that she knew the patient's name. The way I read it, it is  not that she hasn't deep feelings of compassion and empathy.  She have them all right, but she chooses to feel  and live them in a superficial level bc if she  gaves in to them she knows she sucumbs. She pretends she's stronger than she real is.

Edited September 12, 2015 by Nanda

[vanillasky1979]

I stopped liking Amelia when she told Meredith that she doesn't know what it was like to lose someone.

 

Let's see:

1. Ellis

2. George

3. Lexi

4. Mark

5. Derek

 

Amelia was in love with her drugged out boyfriend for all of five minutes.  He died because she wanted to get high. 

[Nobodysfan]

I stopped liking Amelia when she told Meredith that she doesn't know what it was like to lose someone.

 

Let's see:

1. Ellis

2. George

3. Lexi

4. Mark

5. Derek

 

Amelia was in love with her drugged out boyfriend for all of five minutes.  He died because she wanted to get high. 

She is an awful woman,the reasons you give are enough proof. I have been saying this for a long time. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Greysaddict]

I stopped liking Amelia when she told Meredith that she doesn't know what it was like to lose someone.

 

Let's see:

1. Ellis

2. George

3. Lexi

4. Mark

5. Derek

 

Amelia was in love with her drugged out boyfriend for all of five minutes.  He died because she wanted to get high. 

This was the moment I knew for sure that Derek was going to die. This scene served no purpose but to foreshadow his death considering how many friends/family Meredith has lost AND the fact that she watched Derek get shot right in front of her eyes and had to watch her best friend do life or death surgery on him with a gun to her head*.  But, of all reasons to hate Amelia, this isn't one of them for me.  Maybe because I find the scene to be bad writing rather than bad character personality.  

 

*btw, I am totally laughing that I can say this with a straight face

Edited September 22, 2015 by Greysaddict

[jaytee1812]

That as before Meredith lost Derek. And that was what Amelia meant, she hadn't lost someone she was in love with. It was fairly cackhanded foreshadowing.

Also Meredith might've lost George, Lexie and Mark, but they weren't people she loved, she was fond of them, when she wasn't treating them like crap. But she didn't love them.

[pennben]

This was the moment I knew for sure that Derek was going to die. This scene served no purpose but to foreshadow his death considering how many friends/family Meredith has lost AND the fact that she watched Derek get shot right in front of her eyes and had to watch her best friend do life or death surgery on him with a gun to her head*.  But, of all reasons to hate Amelia, this isn't one of them for me.  Maybe because I find the scene to be bad writing rather than bad character personality.  

 

*btw, I am totally laughing that I can say this with a straight face

 

As far as Amelia goes, there was a lot....a lot... that annoyed me last season.  Yet, because I think the season plan was tossed into the air, swept up and then run through the shredder because of the Dempsey issues (whatever they were), I believe they built her up and made her more prominent, more quickly than perhaps they intended as they felt they had no choice.  A slow build would have been much better for her character and her relationships.

 

So, I'm going in with an open mind this season.....an open mind that will snap shut quite quickly if circumstances require!

Edited September 22, 2015 by pennben

[Deanie87]

Also Meredith might've lost George, Lexie and Mark, but they weren't people she loved, she was fond of them, when she wasn't treating them like crap. But she didn't love them.

 

I disagree here.  Given what we were shown onscreen, Meredith did love, if not Mark, then George and Lexie and I would include Izzie as well.  Her reaction to George's death and Izzie's departure were as emotional, if not moreso, than her reaction to Derek's death.  I don't mean to imply that a woman grieves for her friends more than she grieves for her husband, or that the loss is as acutely felt, but I don't doubt that Meredith loved George, Lexie and Izzie.  I never watched PP and I don't really care for Amellia, but if Amelia knew even half of Mer's story, then it is ridiculous for her to say that she doesn't know what it is like to lose someone.

 

So, I'm going in with an open mind this season.....an open mind that will snap shut quite quickly if circumstances require!

 

 

 

That is currently where I am.  As of today, two days before the premiere, I am optimistic that this past season was so out of the ordinary and so screwed up due to a number of backstage issues (mostly Dempsey but not just him), that this season has to be better.  So I am hoping that the overexposure of Amelia and Maggie and the scarcity of Alex, Jo, April and Jackson was just a byproduct of all of this, along with Meredith's supreme bitchiness and for the next few days at least, I am living in my happy bubble and assuming that these things will be remedied this season.  Check back with me at the end of October to see how catastrophically my bubble has burst!

[BaseOps]

No matter who Meredith had lost, Amelia saying that to someone just proves how vile she is. I don't care if the writers put it in as foreshadowing; it was a scene, it happened. She barely knows Meredith, and yet she went on that tirade against her out of nowhere. Her sister died in a freak plane accident along with her husband's best friend. One of her own best friends was hit by a freakin bus, and she was involved in a mass shooting. Amelia doesn't know what Meredith went through (she also watched her mom attempt suicide, lets not forget.) The whole scene was just weird and arrogant and unnatural. I already disliked Amelia a great deal before that, but that was just ridiculous. 

Edited September 22, 2015 by BaseOps

[Greysaddict]

So I am hoping that the overexposure of Amelia and Maggie and the scarcity of Alex, Jo, April and Jackson was just a byproduct of all of this, along with Meredith's supreme bitchiness 

I hope this is the case as well!  I binged my way through a rewatch of S11 the past few days, and in real time I didn't notice the supreme lack of Jackson, even in the beginning of the season (theoretically before everything went to crap).  But re-watching i noticed he is barely on screen for this entire season.  I think if Sarah Drew hadn't been pregnant in real life he (and maybe she) would have been totally swept aside.  I guess it just goes to show how bloated this cast is.

[jaytee1812]

Amelia's known Meredith for at least 7 or 8 years at this point. She was right, at that point Meredith hadn't lost somebody she loved. She has now.

[BaseOps]

Amelia's known Meredith for at least 7 or 8 years at this point. She was right, at that point Meredith hadn't lost somebody she loved. She has now.

 

Agree to disagree. As far as "knowing" her, Amelia only ever made very sporadic appearances until the very end of season 10. It's been stated several times how distant Meredith has been from Derek's sisters. So yes they "knew" each other, but it's not like they were friends or sat around having life chats. And besides, if Amelia HAD known all of that, it's even worse. It doesn't matter if she was referring to a spouse specifically; she basically told Meredith that her opinion didn't count because she had never felt a real loss. I don't have to repeat everything Meredith has been through. It's just an arrogant and rude thing to say in any circumstance, even coming from an arrogant and rude character. 

[windsprints]

Let's see:

1. Ellis

2. George

3. Lexi

4. Mark

5. Derek

Amelia was in love with her drugged out boyfriend for all of five minutes.  He died because she wanted to get high.

Amelia's father was murdered and her baby died, why aren't they are her list? I'd also argue she knew Mark better, or at least the same, as Meredith since she grew up with Mark. I think its clear that Amelia was greatly impacted by the death of both her father and baby. I can't say I ever saw Meredith being all that broken up over either Ellis or Lexie.

As far as "knowing" her, Amelia only ever made very sporadic appearances until the very end of season 10. It's been stated several times how distant Meredith has been from Derek's sisters. So yes they "knew" each other, but it's not like they were friends or sat around having life chats.

I agree. I don't think Amelia knew. She and Meredith weren't friendly and I doubt Derek told her since Amelia and Derek had a strained relationship until just before he died.

Edited September 22, 2015 by windsprints

[vanillasky1979]

I get that Amelia may not have known everything and everyone Meredith lost, but come on...she saw her hubby get shot and she miscarried all on the same day.

 

Then Amelia visits Derek with the tumor dude and made a poor joke about shooting someone, knowing Derek was shot. 

 

As far as Meredith/Lexie, in an episode in season nine, when Meredith was trying to save a woman who was crushed by a car, she was thinking of Lexie and how to save her, if that makes sense. GA does this a lot, like Bailey being there when Charles died, and a season later she saves a guy names Chuck.

 

Either way, it was the worst comment to make, and especially to someone she didn't know that well, and if she did that was worse. You don't know what a person went through, so she made a HUGE assumption. 

 

I feel like this Amelia...not PP Amelia, plays the "my drama is worse that your drama", if that makes sense. 

 

I had a friend once tell me that when she has an unbearable situation she "doesn't cry and stay in a corner", like I did. I have clinical depression and PTSD, that she knew. Sufficed to say we aren't friends anymore. 

Edited September 23, 2015 by vanillasky1979

[jaytee1812]

I was thinking about something after Viola Davis' speech at the Emmys. She mentioned that that Shonda redefined what it means to be sexy. It got me thinking about Bailey, is there any other show on TV where a plus size black women is shown to be desirable to very attractive men? It's not just a short one-off love interest, there's no catch, they just happen to be attracted to her.

[Deanie87]

I was thinking about something after Viola Davis' speech at the Emmys. She mentioned that that Shonda redefined what it means to be sexy. It got me thinking about Bailey, is there any other show on TV where a plus size black women is shown to be desirable to very attractive men? It's not just a short one-off love interest, there's no catch, they just happen to be attracted to her.

 

I think that there have been quite a few instances of it (Donna from Parks and Rec comes to mind immediately) but Bailey may be one of the few that actually participates in a love scene, as opposed to just having conversations about sex, etc.

 

As much Bailey has gotten on my nerves in the last few seasons, I do think that she as a character deserves love scenes as much as any other.  Same goes for the Chief, although since he has played such a paternal role on the show, it does have that semi-squick factor of watching your dad have sex :o  But I have always found JPJ to be one of the handsomest men on the show so bring it on I say.  Apparently I want the Chief to be my dad AND watch his love scenes.  Yikes.

[izabella]

I was thinking about something after Viola Davis' speech at the Emmys. She mentioned that that Shonda redefined what it means to be sexy. It got me thinking about Bailey, is there any other show on TV where a plus size black women is shown to be desirable to very attractive men? It's not just a short one-off love interest, there's no catch, they just happen to be attracted to her.

 

I believe Florida, played by Esther Rolle, on "Good Times," may have been an early vanguard in the late 70's.  She wasn't especially plus-sized, but I don't see Bailey as being especially plus-sized either.  Let's just say Esther wasn't Halle Berry, but she was a sexy woman and her husband, played by John Amos, always, always treated her as such.   I recall George Jefferson chasing Weezie around all the time, too.

 

Shonda didn't redefine everything, just in more recent times.  I was only a kid, but looking back now, the 70s shows seemed to show a lot more variety in what was considered attractive.  Older women were also not required to get plastic surgery and botox to get work, either. 

 

I'll add that plus-sized white women don't get a lot of lovin' on tv, either.  Cameron Mannheim was "ground-breaking" on "Private Practice," and Jane on "Drop Dead Diva," more recently, are exceptions.  I remember when Cameron won her Emmy, she made a point in her acceptance speech of saying she was accepting it on behalf of fat girls everywhere.

Edited September 23, 2015 by izabella

[Nobodysfan]

I get that Amelia may not have known everything and everyone Meredith lost, but come on...she saw her hubby get shot and she miscarried all on the same day.

 

Then Amelia visits Derek with the tumor dude and made a poor joke about shooting someone, knowing Derek was shot. 

 

As far as Meredith/Lexie, in an episode in season nine, when Meredith was trying to save a woman who was crushed by a car, she was thinking of Lexie and how to save her, if that makes sense. GA does this a lot, like Bailey being there when Charles died, and a season later she saves a guy names Chuck.

 

Either way, it was the worst comment to make, and especially to someone she didn't know that well, and if she did that was worse. You don't know what a person went through, so she made a HUGE assumption. 

 

I feel like this Amelia...not PP Amelia, plays the "my drama is worse that your drama", if that makes sense. 

 

I had a friend once tell me that when she has an unbearable situation she "doesn't cry and stay in a corner", like I did. I have clinical depression and PTSD, that she knew. Sufficed to say we aren't friends anymore. 

Interesting thoughts  vanillasky1979. I´m glad I find somebody who sees Amelia just like I do here.

By the way, you have a lovely name.

I was thinking about something after Viola Davis' speech at the Emmys. She mentioned that that Shonda redefined what it means to be sexy. 

I agree with Viola in this. You don´t have to be the usually desirable woman - tall,preferably blond, skinny, blue-eyed model to have a sexual appeal. At least that is how I interpret what she said.

 

As much Bailey has gotten on my nerves in the last few seasons, I do think that she as a character deserves love scenes as much as any other.  

That is true.

Edited September 24, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[Chas411]

I'm rewatching the end of season three and oh my god between Susan's death, thatcher rejecting Meredith, the break up of Burke/Cristina and then Gizzie it's some of the worst episodes the show churned out.

George/Izzie were awful. No chemistry whatsoever and way to much screen time and ~angst. I also hate how they tried to make it like some epic love story instead of them just being two selfish assholes being selfish. They weren't even that into each other after it all. I still think it was just Izzie trying to get one over on Callie and stake her self entitled ownership over George.

[DearEvette]

I am doing a re-watch and I started with S1 last week.  And I am up to S3 right now and you are so right!  Not only did George not have any chemistry with Izzie (the absolute worst pairing in GA history) he had none with Callie either, imo.  Frankly I just never found George have chemistry with anyone.  Actually I just disliked George from S1.  Even more than Alex who was written to be purposefully jerky.

[Chas411]

I liked George right up until he slept with Meredith and after that I found him seriously hard to deal with. He treated Callie like shit and though I slightly liked him again near the end of season four due to his friendship with Lexie I just always found him to be rather passive aggressive.

I must say though I thought the scenes with he and Izzie trying to have sex once they realised they had no chemistry were hilarious. Heigl and Knight were so funny and made the best of a terrible situation.

[Artymouse]

I liked George more or less his whole tenure on the show, but I think the friendship with Izzie was really bad for his character. I'm rewatching old seasons now too, and I'm realizing that I never bought into the super-close friendship between those two, and the romantic relationship was just, ick.

But he did treat Callie terribly, and most of it seemed to be generated by his friendship with Izzie. I mean, every time he made plans with Callie and either canceled at the last minute or didn't show at all, it was about Izzie-- cutting the LVAD wire, getting the inheritance check from Denny, giving bone marrow for her daughter. And that doesn't even count his adultery with Izzie.

That said, most of my favorite George moments were with patients. He had a great bedside manner and really was able to connect in a meaningful way.

[represent]

 

That said, most of my favorite George moments were with patients. He had a great bedside manner and really was able to connect in a meaningful way.

I agree, this was about the only place where the character shined, patient interaction.  I was re-watching the episode in which George reacts to Meredith crying while they slept together and boy does he suck. I think it was the "Superstition" eppy. As cruel as it was and as much as it was coming from a  place of self-loathing, everything Alex said to him at the end of that eppy was right. I mean he set himself up, it was not Mer's fault, sorry, it wasn't. I mean he was delusional, the girl loved Derek. Just like everyone since day one could tell that George was hung up on Meredith, everyone from day one pretty much could tell Mer was hung up on Derek. George just chose not to go with that and little did he know that Meredith had just come from feeling once again rejected by her father and he came in that bedroom saying all the things that she wanted to hear from Thatcher. It was like she was in some kind of trance at that moment, she was not all there, she really wasn't. I mean the writers had George say in that moment of all moments, that he would NEVER leave her, when she had just come from asking Thatcher why he left her. And worse he had NO answer for her. 

Yet, I'm suppose to look at Meredith as the evil wench that took advantage of Bambi, no, sorry. Show don't hit me over the head with your so called "good, kind" characters whom I'm suppose to support, that backfires with a viewer like me every time.  Especially when you throw other characters under the bus in order to do it, even characters like Meredith that I'm not even a fan first of. I can't stand it.

 

His ass was hung up on getting the so called "cool" girl, while ignoring the other cool and great girl that was interested in treating him the respect that had alluded him all his life. To Callie he was the cool guy, yet he spit in her face multiple times throughout that relationship.

 

As a matter a fact, going back to the way he treated nurse Olivia, he sucked to me. Shit, she slept with Alex before she got with George, but yet she deserved to be shitted on that way, no she didn't. We all know that George was looking for any reason to shit on her because he was hung up on Meredith, dummy.

 

Idiot.

Anyway, rest his soul, LOL, hate to speak ill of the dead, especially those run over and dragged by a bus, jeesh.

Edited October 26, 2015 by represent

[DearEvette]

That said, most of my favorite George moments were with patients. He had a great bedside manner and really was able to connect in a meaningful way.

 

One of the things that is sticking out to me in my re-watch is how much actual teaching the Residents/Attendings did with Mer, Christina George etc.  Even amongst all the sexy times you got a good sense of the personalities of the interns through their skills.  One of the reasons it is so hard to connect with the new interns is that the storytelling isn't as deep with them as it was with the original crew.  So of course, we have no way of knowing really how good Jo or Stephanie really are because we aren't getting to watch them really do anything.

 

i think they actually attempted to do it with the Jo, Stephanie, Tina Majorino and Friday Night Lights guy... but they were juggling too many characters to make it work effectively.   It seems like they are trying to get back to that a bit, but still this season  the only thing I know about Hot Intern is that he is good at sex.

[BaseOps]

One of the things that is sticking out to me in my re-watch is how much actual teaching the Residents/Attendings did with Mer, Christina George etc.  Even amongst all the sexy times you got a good sense of the personalities of the interns through their skills.  One of the reasons it is so hard to connect with the new interns is that the storytelling isn't as deep with them as it was with the original crew.  So of course, we have no way of knowing really how good Jo or Stephanie really are because we aren't getting to watch them really do anything.

 

i think they actually attempted to do it with the Jo, Stephanie, Tina Majorino and Friday Night Lights guy... but they were juggling too many characters to make it work effectively.   It seems like they are trying to get back to that a bit, but still this season  the only thing I know about Hot Intern is that he is good at sex.

 

Side-effects of the bloated cast. Back in S1 there were only 9 regular characters; in S2 there was 10. Now we're at 14, soon to be 15 PLUS the interns + now Penny. There's just no room to really delve into that many stories, so instead we get bits and pieces from each character. This season has been better than the last few, but it could have improved 100% if they cut a few more characters at the end of last year. 

[Deanie87]

I also think that they way that they brought the last intern class in didn't work (and they realized that).  They brought five new people in and used them in pretty much every single episode, gave them all biggish story arcs and hooked all or nearly all of them up with attendings.  That clearly didn't work and Jo and Stephanie are still suffering the effects of it.  This time out, they brought in a few interns but only two of them have been given anything to do (and thank god they are males at least), and they aren't in any episodes.  DeLuca has hooked up already and we got a tiny bit of backstory on him, but it isn't taking over the show the way that the last intern group did or Maggie and now probably Penny will.  So I don't mind them.

 

I would like to see a bit more bonding between Steph, Jo and Ben, but that probably isn't going to happen now.

[represent]

 

So of course, we have no way of knowing really how good Jo or Stephanie really are because we aren't getting to watch them really do anything.

But haven't they show between last season and this season Amelia working closely with Stephanie and teaching her? Again, I may have missed some stuff, but I thought the show showed quite a bit of that teacher/student relationships with these two. 

 

If so, could it be that many don't like nor connect with attending Amelia, so that feeling may transfer onto whoever she's mentoring? Or, you'd just not be as interested in anyone that she was mentoring.

 

Like if say, Meredith, Callie, Richard, Bailey if any of them were doing the close mentoring of these residents might we be more connected to the a Jo, Stephanie etc. because we already have a connection to these veterans. 

 

That's why I keep seeing posts asking for Jo to be mentored by Callie, because we have a connection to Callie, and it looked like that connection could go somewhere.  Unfortunately, they dropped it. 

 

But I don't  think there's that connection with Amelia, she's resented a lot so that would weigh on whatever they were trying to build between she and Stephanie. 

 

And I don't know what's up with Maggie, she runs around that place acting in such a way that I forget that she's an Attending, she acts like an intern.  Maybe if she started teaching someone, WTF?  But then once again, because she is not portrayed as being as kick ass as Burke, Yang or even Hahn, I don't know if could buy her mentoring a resident.  All she does is whine, cry and talk about her vagina, if not her grandmother's vagina.

Edited October 26, 2015 by represent

[DearEvette]

But haven't they show between last season and this season Amelia working closely with Stephanie and teaching her? Again, I may have missed some stuff, but I thought the show showed quite a bit of that teacher/student relationships with these two.

 

I am not sure about timelines but aren't Steph & Jo residents?  It just seems like in the earlier episodes even when Mer, George, Christina etc. were just interns we watched them do more and they seem to have more hands on responsibility than Steph and Jo do.  I mean there are scenes of Izzy scrubbed in with Burke and he is explaining some complicated thing and firing off questions to her, or when George had to do surgery on his own while trapped ion an elevator, or Addison forcing Izzy to take responsibility all by herself overnight with a Preemie telling her that the baby's life is her responsibility and the baby better be alive when Addison returns in the morning.  Even the nurses are shown to be subtlety teaching while simultaneously  standing back and saying 'you're the doctor you make the call.'

 

Having said all that, i do admit I find myself liking George more than I remembered, so maybe my dislike of him is something that came after the fact an poisoned my early memories.  But Izzy I am disliking more than I remembered.   I guess by the time I get to her with Denny and doing surgery on a deer, I'll be hating her guts.