S02.E10: Dirty Little Secret

[PrincessPurrsALot]

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Jesse connects with an unlikely source and learns more about God's whereabouts. Tulip can't forgive Jesse when she finds out he's been lying to her.

[Mr. Sparkle]

I liked this one. It was paced better and moved the story towards something. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

Did Jesse tell Tulip that he sent the Saint's weapons to Hell with him?

Seems like the show found a way to stop having to cover up the new tattoo Joseph Gilgun got between the first and second seasons.

[TigerLynx]

While I don't expect to see a ten foot Lion/Eagle/HoneyBadger running or flying around anytime soon, the idea that God took a look at humans, said to hell with this, and went off to create something better was very very very believable to me.

[SoSueMe]

That was different.

[Lantern7]

I have to admit, I kept thinking that the Messiah was going to veer a little away from the canon, especially since he wasn't a kid. But then Starr said his name, he pissed on Jesse, and all was right with the world. Well, at least in this world. I'm still thinking that if the guy running the show pops up, he won't look like he did in the comics.

I know, watching Tulip cope with shell shock and Jesse's lies gets a little monotonous, as does Denis careening into a messy end. But we get stuff like the last night of Jesus's life, the modern-sounding guys with him, insane shadowplay that's bound to piss people off, and the Pope and the Archbishop of Canterbury speculating on God's whereabouts. This isn't the best show, and I think American Gods had more fun with Jesus, but it's still fun.

[Eulipian 5k]

Well, I learned one surprising thing, that Herr Starr has a soul. But does Herr Starr want to be Chief of Staff to the new god? He didn't strike me as a 2nd fiddle type.

[pezgirl7]

That opening scene with Jesus was pretty blasphemous! But I guess the whole show is, really. Herr Starr was actually palatable for me this episode. Since the messiah was drawing pictures of dogs, then was that really God in the dog suit in the first episode?

Looks like Dennis actually killed someone. That won't end well. 

I don't know how much of those pancakes I could eat, but they make me hungry every time I see them! With the candy, and the whipped cream... yum!

[ganesh]

The flashbacks with Jesus killed me, calling the disciples "bro". 

4 hours ago, pezgirl7 said:

Since the messiah was drawing pictures of dogs, then was that really God in the dog suit in the first episode?

It has to be. Hiding in plain sight. Having a long convoluted search doesn't make sense because god can do whatever he wants. I do like the idea that he got sick of humanity and just walked away. 

I was hoping they'd allude to how the grail was able to continually produce offspring. Since there was only one original boy, and Starr mentioned inbreeding, did they only have Jesus' progeny mate? I would think someone would have wised up in the ensuing 2000 years.

I liked that Starr brought up becoming god. I said last week, does it matter? Also, does Jesse know for sure the current god is the original version? 

[tennisgurl]

"Judas is waiting with the escape donkeys!" You know, sometimes I feel like this show is the bored doodles of some angry 12 year old stuck in Sunday school, wishing he was at home playing video games.

I'm now pretty sure the dog guy was God, and that's why inbred Jesus spawn was drawing creepy dogs. Looks like we will end up there again, hopefully with an awesome jazz soundtrack.

The dude Grail lackey is normally the doofy one, but he played the Drunk Abusive Ex part really well, and he shrugged off those attacks pretty quickly. I guess you have to be at least a little bit competent to be a Grail operative.

At least we seem to be moving a bit, plot wise, even as Cassidy and Tulip seem to be stuck in a rut plot wise. But now that Dennis is probably going to start killing people, and Tulip knows Jessie lied about the Saint, we might get more movement soon.

[Snookums]

That was really a blasphemous opening, showrunners, even for you guys.  Dang.

However, when I googled Thaddeus (the Apostle who started the Grail with Jesus's offspring), I found out he's better known as St. Jude. The patron saint of lost causes and hopeless situations. So, nice play there, show. 

So, I know Tulip and Jesse are pretty estranged right now, and she was wondering where he was, but didn't that trip to see Humperdo take, like, days?  I was under the distinct impression that they went to Europe: even on a supersonic jet that isn't a quick trip. 

 

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I was hoping they'd allude to how the grail was able to continually produce offspring. Since there was only one original boy, and Starr mentioned inbreeding, did they only have Jesus' progeny mate? I would think someone would have wised up in the ensuing 2000 years.

I can't remember how they did it in the comics but I suppose they could have bred him with one of Jesus's siblings or cousins and gone on from there. He was definitely an only child, so whoever was his partner to create the third generation must have brought some genetic refreshment to the table. Even so, that didn't help too much, did it? I think Herr Starr's depression stems from realizing, as he says, that he is devoted to a lost cause, and is surrounded by denial to the point of lunacy. It's completely obvious that Humperdo couldn't lead a two car funeral but nobody will say so.

[thuganomics85]

Welcome to Preacher, ladies and gentleman.  A show that has an episode start off with Jesus having sex with a random lady (and married too!), and ends with them revealing that his descendent is all kinds of mess up thanks to years of inbreeding.  Also, I see what you did there show with both the title of the episode and having the singer from All American Rejects playing Jesus and the descendent.

That said, those random drawings of the dog totally means that God was really that guy in the dog suit that Jesse was led to when he first got to New Orleans, right?

Featherstone and Hoover's new plan seems to be causing Jesse and Tulip to breakup, apparently.  It will likely work since they helped her find SOK's guns, so she now knows he didn't damn him to hell.  Also, Hoover can apparently take a beating and Featherstone knows how to make delicious pancakes!

That sure looked like a lot of blood on Denis' face.  This isn't good.  Have a feeling this is only going to end badly for him and Cassidy.

[Captanne]

Plus, (I love this show), God is "dog" backwards.  They would so go there.

[SoSueMe]

They really did a slam bang job on the makeup for Humperdoo (same actor that played Jesus, right?) 

I know that Featherstone's admiration for Cassidy was part of her deception, but real or not I agree, he's pretty attractive.

[ganesh]

I didn't have a problem with the opening. It was funny. The account in the bible that Jesus was single and a virgin is arguably the most unlikely of accounts anyway. It's much more likely he had a family. Granted he probably wasn't a total pimp, but I didn't care. They obviously were being stylized like a comic for those scenes, given the source material. 

8 hours ago, Snookums said:

It's completely obvious that Humperdo couldn't lead a two car funeral but nobody will say so.

Why not just breed him with a few other women chosen outside of the family. The babies would still be the bloodline of Jesus. Do they need a Jesus right now? I guess it's a fair assumption that god took off during this Jesus' lifetime, but you've got nothing to work with here. 

This was a much more interesting episode. I'm feeling a parallel in story structure to American Gods. Both stories really could be told over 6 episodes. 

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

That said, those random drawings of the dog totally means that God was really that guy in the dog suit that Jesse was led to when he first got to New Orleans, right?

I thought Jesse looked at the drawings. He isn't much for deductive reasoning. Unless the dog is Jesus' sibling who escaped or something. I would think Starr would have brought something like that up though. 

[johntfs]

16 hours ago, ganesh said:

I would think someone would have wised up in the ensuing 2000 years.

Not necessarily.  Go read up on inbreeding within European royal families.

[Snookums]

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Why not just breed him with a few other women chosen outside of the family. The babies would still be the bloodline of Jesus. Do they need a Jesus right now?

It sounds like they were obsessed with bloodline purity, which is beyond stupid for countless reasons. Plus, it's way too late for that now; Humperdoo is so messed up I doubt his sperm could even combine with an egg to make a viable fetus. 

[TigerLynx]

2 hours ago, johntfs said:

Not necessarily.  Go read up on inbreeding within European royal families.

Or the human race in general when it comes to anything.  Learn from history, we do not (imitating Yoda).

If it's God in the dog suit, that is going to be all kinds of hilarious.

[Spaceman Spiff]

The cold opening with Jesus was fun. "Getaway Donkeys". Plus I am still charmed by how Tulip eats her pancakes with mountains of whipped cream. I saw Denis being a shit vampire from a thousand miles away so that portion of the story bores me.

[Captanne]

The only thing I'm enjoying about the Denis plotline is Cassidy.  

 

ETA:  I don't want to give the wrong impression -- the plot line just doesn't interest me that much.  The performances and energy are there -- I'm just not sure why it's happening.  I can only trust that the blow up of Cassidy's choice will impact Jesse's quest for God somehow.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Captanne

[pezgirl7]

Cassidy should just ask Jesse to use his powers and command Denis to not kill anyone. Problem solved!

 

On 8/23/2017 at 1:30 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Also, I see what you did there show with both the title of the episode and having the singer from All American Rejects playing Jesus and the descendent.

Wow, I didn't catch that at all! But I'm not that familiar with the lead singer to recognize him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

11 hours ago, Captanne said:

The only thing I'm enjoying about the Denis plotline is Cassidy.  

I was too, until he decided to turn him. I just find that Cassidy, who seems to be so on point with other people in regards to their feelings and realizing something is wrong or going on, is completely blind when it comes to Denis. I get that he is his son, but it just seems so OOC for him to not see what is going on.

[Captanne]

I agree - he's totally blinded by Denis.  For me, the proof of that is the vignette of Cassidy first seeing the infant Denis in the cradle. I think the point of that was to prove that Father-love is so strong that it blinds you (Cassidy).

I love the way the actor presents that.  He's kind of having fun hanging out with his son -- teaching him all over again how to "adult".   Only this time as a vampire.  He was kind of crap at that when Denis was a young normal man and he's crap at that now.

[rmontro]

On 8/23/2017 at 10:52 AM, ganesh said:

The account in the bible that Jesus was single and a virgin is arguably the most unlikely of accounts anyway.

Actually, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that Jesus was a virgin, nor does it specifically say He is single.  But it never mentions Him being married either.

[ganesh]

It also doesn't mention his brother either and we know he had one. 

[Captanne]

"Jesus' brothers and sisters. The Gospel of Mark 6:3 and the Gospel of Matthew 13:55-56 state that James, Joses (or Joseph), Judas, and Simon were the brothers of Jesus, the son of Mary."  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brothers_of_Jesus

Mark 6:1-6

1 And he went out from thence, and came into his own country; and his disciples follow him.

2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing him were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands?

3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

4 But Jesus, said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed them.

6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching.

 

 

Matthew 13:54-56

54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?

55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?

56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?

 

(Italics mine.)

ETA:  I don't mean to imply that Wikipedia is the perfect source of information taken as fact but this entry does point you to the gospel quotes and gives you a nice reference history of how the Church established by Peter and the Apostles interpreted Jesus having siblings through the ages (Eusebias in particular.)

Edited August 27, 2017 by Captanne

[ganesh]

Then it would stand to reason that he would have his own family himself, than being a 30 something single virgin. If he existed. I don't care either way. I thought the portrayal in this show was hilarious. 

Edited August 27, 2017 by ganesh

[Captanne]

As far as I know the Gospels and Acts are silent as to Jesus' personal love life.  We know that John the Baptist developed a large following and spent his time alone in the wilderness at the time of Jesus' baptism.  (Matthew 3, et al.)  Whether Jesus had sexual intercourse with another human being or actually took a wife is not mentioned.  As for a wife ~with~ children, we do know that He was very active up and down the country in a relatively (pun intended) short span of time.  Interesting, too, that none of the four gospel writers thought to mention a family and, yet, they do mention his mother and brothers and sisters.  And there are many mentions of generic families.  (Parents bring children for healing, Mary's around quite a bit.)   It stands to reason -- no nuclear fam. for Jesus.  Also, interestingly enough, no further mention of Joseph, either.      (And, to my mind, the BIG question -- Why?  Why give the Son of Man a nuclear family?)

Edited August 27, 2017 by Captanne

[Lantern7]

Not into the Bible. Just needed an excuse to post this bit from Robot Chicken: The 33-Year-Old Virgin. It's not really work-safe, though the narrator should be recognizable.

Heading the the "Gospel" thread now to debate whether the show deviated that much from canon.

[Captanne]

That's fabulous!  Love the Shroud of Turin. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 8/27/2017 at 11:43 AM, ganesh said:

Then it would stand to reason that he would have his own family himself, than being a 30 something single virgin. If he existed. I don't care either way. I thought the portrayal in this show was hilarious. 

 

On 8/27/2017 at 0:11 AM, rmontro said:

Actually, it doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that Jesus was a virgin, nor does it specifically say He is single.  But it never mentions Him being married either.

I thought that Catholic priests are required to be celibate because they follow Jesus' model. Never married, never sexually active.  Stating that Jesus had sexual relations (even more so with a woman not his wife) is quite blasphemous, I presume.

Edited August 29, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[ganesh]

Yes, I'm saying the biblical account is a fabrication and doesn't match up with the historical context of what life was like back then. 

[Captanne]

I'm not Catholic (I'm a practicing Episcopalian with 1/2 a PhD in humanities/theology from Georgetown University.)  However, priestly celibacy became mandated after St. Augustine (4th Century) wrote about Original Sin based on Genesis 3 and Romans 5:12.  Putting Yaweh's word and Paul's interpretation of the Gospel message together, Augustine linked sex and sin.  (Briefly put.)

Augustine also complained of priests being distracted by any other sort of life than an abstemious one.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cclergy/documents/rc_con_cclergy_doc_01011993_chisto_en.html

 

I'm not aware of any authoritative mention of emulating Jesus by being celibate.  Nor of any priestly celibacy prior to St. Augustine's writing.  (That includes the Apostles.  We know Peter was married because his mother-in-law took ill and Jesus healed her.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healing_the_mother_of_Peter's_wife  Again, Wikipedia is not a primary source but does give great references!)

Edited August 29, 2017 by Captanne

[WatchrTina]

I definitely prefer Kevin Smith's version of the "last scion of Jesus" as depicted in his movie "Dogma" to the inbred/cretin Jesus descendant in this story.

Edited September 1, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Spaceman Spiff]

4 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

I definitely prefer Kevin Smith's version of the "last scion of Jesus" as depicted in his move "Dogma" to the inbred/cretin Jesus descendant in this story.

Or even the one in The Da Vinci Code, where the Holy Grail is depicted as his descendant. But I understand why they did what they did making this Jesus scion an imbecile.