S01.E05: Part V

[luna1122]

Whatever the genesis of certain kinks, and whatever leads Ambrose to need to be dominated sexually,  that does not make him a nut or deranged. I don't think we're meant to see him that way at all. Whatever his issues are, he feels an empathy for Cora, not an involvement in the crimes that have been committed against her.

I think Jessica Biel is clearly attractive but I don't find her drop dead beautiful either or think that that is ambrose's motivation in wanting to help her.

[ccphilly]

On 8/31/2017 at 9:21 PM, YoureSoUrban said:

eal to Cora's maternal side, why do it in front of a new male colleague (subordinate?)? It felt like a cheap shot by the writers to me.

It was a ruse.  I am a woman in law enforcement.  I'll use whatever I can to make someone want to talk to me.  My male partner knows I can throw down with the best of them, but the person I am interviewing doesn't .  You catch more files with honey....

FWIW-the portrayal of law enforcement and the criminal justice system here is laughable.  I get it's fiction but at least lets have some common sense factor in.  

Edited September 5, 2017 by ccphilly

[Broderbits]

22 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

And we can agree to disagree but I think that those who engage in this type of behavior have issues.

This may be true of some people, but it most certainly is not true of all who have these kinks. And for folks with stressful jobs and/or lots of responsibility it can provide a safe outlet and relief.

Freud wasn't right about everything.

[LoveLeigh]

1 hour ago, Broderbits said:

This may be true of some people, but it most certainly is not true of all who have these kinks. And for folks with stressful jobs and/or lots of responsibility it can provide a safe outlet and relief.

Freud wasn't right about everything.

Well, my bone of contention is that there are many avenues for stress relief and those who choose to get involved in inflicting pain and receiving pain have issues that stem from childhood abuse. 

I meditate, listen to classical music, take warm baths etc. to relieve my stress. Getting spanked is a bizarre choice for relief unless it is rooted in some deep issue. "These kinks" stem from early arousal and the associations with that lead the participants to engage in it into adulthood.  

It is not a choice without some psychological background that gives one a predilection for it. To desire to be hurt in order to relieve stress is not "kinky" but a condition that probably developed from childhood spankings. It's sad. 

 

I know a few people with jobs with a lot of responsibility and they do not go out and look to get their back whipped to relieve the stress of the day. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by DakotaLavender

[Broderbits]

6 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

Well, my bone of contention is that there are many avenues for stress relief and those who choose to get involved in inflicting pain and receiving pain have issues that stem from childhood abuse. 

I have no bone to pick with you and no wish to change your mind about what you believe. People are different, what works for one may not work for another. In fact, you may not know as much about other people's sex lives as you think.

[LoveLeigh]

3 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I have no bone to pick with you and no wish to change your mind about what you believe. People are different, what works for one may not work for another. In fact, you may not know as much about other people's sex lives as you think.

How did this become about "other people's sex lives?" My main point was that when couples engage in this particular form of "kink" they are drawn to it for a specific reason and the reason stems from childhood abuse. They are turned on by it because of psychological reasons. People's sexual kinky preferences are not formed out of thin air. The foundation for this starts in childhood. 

I acknowledge it exists. But both have to be willing participants and enjoy it. They enjoy it and are drawn to it for psychological reasons and it is not a random choice. 

[Broderbits]

2 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

How did this become about "other people's sex lives?

When you wrote:

 

3 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I know a few people with jobs with a lot of responsibility and they do not go out and look to get their back whipped to relieve the stress of the day. 

Your personal beliefs are your own, over and out.

[LoveLeigh]

2 hours ago, Broderbits said:

When you wrote:

 

Your personal beliefs are your own, over and out.

I was just replying to your comment that people in high stress jobs turn to S and M for relief. It's a bizarre choice and not random. It is a psychological fetish. 

[bilgistic]

5 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

Well, my bone of contention is that there are many avenues for stress relief and those who choose to get involved in inflicting pain and receiving pain have issues that stem from childhood abuse...Getting spanked is a bizarre choice for relief unless it is rooted in some deep issue. "These kinks" stem from early arousal and the associations with that lead the participants to engage in it into adulthood.  

It is not a choice without some psychological background that gives one a predilection for it. To desire to be hurt in order to relieve stress is not "kinky" but a condition that probably developed from childhood spankings. It's sad.

Do you have scientific proof of this? I'm asking honestly. Please provide studies.

[LoveLeigh]

10 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Do you have scientific proof of this? I'm asking honestly. Please provide studies.

It's common sense. Do YOU enjoy getting your back whipped to relieve your daily stress? And if you do, have you ever analyzed why? 

ETA: and I do not look at that detective writing in pain and think anything about that is healthy. I think he is a bit of a sociopath. 

Edited September 6, 2017 by DakotaLavender

[bilgistic]

Plenty of people enjoy being spanked and/or engage in S&M in consensual sexual relationships. That doesn't mean they were abused as children.

Edited September 6, 2017 by bilgistic

[Emmeline]

7 hours ago, Broderbits said:

I have no bone to pick with you and no wish to change your mind about what you believe. People are different, what works for one may not work for another. In fact, you may not know as much about other people's sex lives as you think.

Didn't anyone watch or read 50 Shades of Grey?  Just being sarcastic.  It does sicken me that that women made milllions on that trash.  Not the sex, I'm no prude, but how could her sex scenarios be so boring I actually had to flip through some of the pages it was so boring.  I was like "oh no, they are not going to have sex again."  Frankly I couldn't even get through the books.  Really great sex comes from hot passion, not pain or goofy role playing.  Maybe something like that can come into play 10-20 years on when things start to get a little dull.

[Irlandesa]

19 minutes ago, Emmeline said:

Really great sex comes from hot passion, not pain or goofy role playing.

I'm sure those who engage in S&M would tell you that hot passion and pain and goofy role playing aren't mutually exclusive.

I think it's fine if people aren't into it but the reality is many people are--people who weren't abused.  People who got into it later than life. People who are friends and neighbors. People who aren't lying about what they enjoy...except maybe to people whose business it isn't.

But what's germane to this discussion is whether or not it's signaling he could have been involved in the non-consensual abuse of Cora.  I don't think it is because s&m is about consent.  That's not to say it couldn't spill over into something non-consensual but vanilla sexual practices can do that too.

[Emmeline]

35 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm sure those who engage in S&M would tell you that hot passion and pain and goofy role playing aren't mutually exclusive.

I think it's fine if people aren't into it but the reality is many people are--people who weren't abused.  People who got into it later than life. People who are friends and neighbors. People who aren't lying about what they enjoy...except maybe to people whose business it isn't.

But what's germane to this discussion is whether or not it's signaling he could have been involved in the non-consensual abuse of Cora.  I don't think it is because s&m is about consent.  That's not to say it couldn't spill over into something non-consensual but vanilla sexual practices can do that too.

I have to agree with you.  Whatever floats your boat. 

[Iguessnot]

On 9/3/2017 at 5:41 PM, Neurochick said:

I'm a straight woman but I don't see her physical attractiveness.  To me she's kind of basic, but I can see how a man might thing she's beautiful; she's young, thin and has nice hair.  But I think this comment is correct, to Ambrose, Cora is attractive, and he can't see how an attractive woman can just haul off and stab someone to death on a public beach.

I don't think Ambrose has shared his kink with his wife.  I think he's ashamed of it; thinks he, himself is a "sinner."

She is plain. There was nothing wrong with the state detective making her insinuation, given her view of Ambrose's approach to the case. I'm sure if she was aware of his relationships with his wife and dominatrix, she  wouldn't come to the conclusion that the seemingly autistic Ambrose is simply interested in Cora for her looks. 

[AuntDahlia]

The thing I am most interested in is the Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy shit with the sister and the mom.  At least that is what I suspect is going on.  In the recent interview with the cop, the mom has weird sores and appears sickly; guess after the kid died she had to turn to just plain old Munchausen Syndrome.

If I am wrong, I will be disappointed.  The sex club intrigue just doesn't do it for me.

[candall]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 4:19 PM, Broderbits said:

Without revealing anything spoilerish, let me just say whoever wrote the tv series added stuff that wasn't in the book and none of it makes any sense or adds to the story.

Wow, the author must be really furious that they added so much irrelevant padding.  And I'm a little pissed myself that this might have been a tight little four- or six-hour "limited series" instead of a long drawn-out meandering mess.  (Top of the Lake is being advertised all over the place as a "three-night special event."  See how that works, Sinner people?)

 

Just tell me what happened to the sister--is she dead or alive?--and why Cora killed that guy on the beach.  Was she PTSD triggered by the music or did she know him?

If the answers to those two things turn out to be substantially unrelated, I'm going to have permanent trust issues with summer suspense shows.

[lucindabelle]

Yeah, no, light bondage and s/m is apparently a really common fetish, and doesn't represent any real desire to hurt or be hurt at all. You should read up on it. It's just simply categorically untrue that people who enjoy s/m are victims of child abuse. Seriously, you're just wrong on this.

 

Similarly, lots and lots of couples role play in the bedroom things they would never ever do or wish to do in real life.

 

EDITED TO ADD: assuming people only role play things that go "deep" with them is about as logical as assuming Anthony Hopkins is a serial killer because he is a good actor. People have fun trying on personae they would never, ever, ever, ever, wish to be in real life. Human beings playact.

 

Your attitude strikes me as the one Ambrose assumes his wife would ahve (probably correctly). That's not real love-- couples have to be able to be open with one another. And if they can't accept each other wholly, they aren't really suited. I think Ambrose would be better off with his dominatrix, who seems to have real feelings for him.

Edited September 11, 2017 by lucindabelle

[Jax7917]

For some reason this show confuses me .. and isn't Maddie the girl from the beach ? 

 

I actually  do find jessica biel to be really pretty , I always have . She looked really bad in the first episode though . I asked my husband what the hell she did to her face .. I could do without the bangs on her though 

[shirazplease]

Quote

I know a few people with jobs with a lot of responsibility and they do not go out and look to get their back whipped to relieve the stress of the day. 

Would they tell you if they did?  I suspect not, because you appear to be very judgy about that type of thing.

[DEM]

On 9/1/2017 at 7:38 AM, MarylandGirl said:

I agree that Ambrose should have had more of an explanation planned for how he found the body--I guess he must have suggested that Cora led him there, based on what the female officer said? But that suggests that Cora shared the location, when really Ambrose pieced it together from what she said during hypnosis--especially the bus part.

I agree. I'm unclear about exactly how Ambrose found the bus because I thought he had some sort of epiphany well after the fact as he was on his hike, but regardless it was pretty gross how he made Cora take the fall for that. That's at least the third time he's done something like that to Cora. He claims to want to help her, but then he does things like interview the husband about "Cora's drug use" in a way that was apparently very specific rather than general/hypothetical (e.g., "Does she have a history of depression? Anxiety? Drug use? Been prescribed any medications?"), so Mason explodes and refuses to bring their son to visit the jail.

Ambrose is slippery and disingenuous when he doesn't need to be, and Pullman's "private, dirty joke" acting doesn't help.

 

On 9/1/2017 at 7:26 PM, Shellbell59 said:

Mason=bad

I wrote off Mason in ep1 when he didn't come to the police station or even call Cora. Then he did a 180 and berated Cora for wanting to plead guilty and lost even more points. He's so far in the hole now that he loses points simply for showing his face.

 

On 8/31/2017 at 8:11 AM, DoubleUTeeEff said:

The sister is something else. Whether she is with Cora or against her, I wonder what the motive for getting Cora in trouble with her parents was. She doesn't seem like the type to panic over nothing to me.

I haven't watched ep6 yet, but it wouldn't surprise me to learn that Phoebe did that because she was angry that Cora didn't answer the phone and give her all the creepy, voyeuristic details RIGHT NOW, rather than true concern for her safety.

 

On 8/31/2017 at 11:20 PM, thuganomics85 said:

So, we're past the halfway point, so I should have known we would be getting a state detective to show up.  This is the time when someone else gets involved and causes a bunch of jurisdictional crap and issues with the "lead" detective.  And, of course, they're making her come off so obviously gung-ho that Cora is guilty, that she's going to look like an idiot when it is revealed she's innocent (err, for this murder at least.)

Yeah, now the show is aware of jurisdiction, when just a couple of eps ago, Ambrose and novice officer who needs to learn how to use the block function on her phone showed up to arrest husband and JD in a town that was an hour away.

So many of these characters are annoying me that I hope the bones are Phoebe's, and Cora's DNA is on the blanket because it came from the family home. That's unlikely given the proximity to Sketchy Club, but I can dream. And shouldn't the police be concerned with identifying THE ACTUAL BODY?

[panthergirl13]

On 9/1/2017 at 4:38 PM, MarylandGirl said:

I'm also curious as to how Ambrose managed to just wander into that hunting club the second time and then down to the basement, because I got the sense it had some fairly tight security? Or at least that you'd have to check in at a front desk or something. And as someone else mentioned, it was funny how all the masks were just hanging there...

Oh didn't you notice? He was wearing a hat! (apparently a magical get-you-through-security hat).

I'm sticking this one out for the last three episodes but man, it has been painful. I cannot stand Bill Pullman as an actor, and paired with this terrible character and awful writing he is all but impossible to watch. The basic idea that a detective would be acting as an investigator for a defendant (one that has CONFESSED, no less) is beyond absurd. Also, what jails allow direct phone calls and prisoners to chat for hours? The only things missing from that nighttime chat session between Cora and Harry were fuzzy slippers and a princess phone. (old person reference, sorry). And if I never have to see Pullman in another sex scene it will be too soon.

And what a nuanced (NOT) performance by the lead state cop! I don't remember her name, but given all the subtly of the rest of this thing it's probably Cruella Von Dontbelieveyou.

There are really only a couple of options re the man behind the mask, right? Are they gonna go with the most boring and cheap revelation that t it's Frankie Belmont (a name right out of a 60s boy band)?

[panthergirl13]

On 9/8/2017 at 11:30 PM, AuntDahlia said:

The thing I am most interested in is the Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy shit with the sister and the mom.  At least that is what I suspect is going on.  In the recent interview with the cop, the mom has weird sores and appears sickly; guess after the kid died she had to turn to just plain old Munchausen Syndrome.

If I am wrong, I will be disappointed.  The sex club intrigue just doesn't do it for me.

I'm with you on the Munchausen by Proxy. Have suspected that from the beginning. Thinking ultimately the mother killed the sister to punish Cora and made Cora bury the body. What that has to do with the sex club etc. is beyond me but I'm desperately hoping that I didn't waste 8 hours of my life for a stupid ending. (well, 5 so far but I'm committed now).