S07.E03: The Queen's Justice

[Star Aristille]

On ‎8‎/‎2‎/‎2017 at 8:54 AM, penelope79 said:

I guess it will be a huge surprise for her, since she's still convinced that Tyrion & Sansa murdered her beloved, sweet child.

Wait.  Cersei thinks Sansa killed Joffrey, too?!  Is that why she fled King's Landing back in season four?

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Star Aristille said:

Wait.  Cersei thinks Sansa killed Joffrey, too?!  Is that why she fled King's Landing back in season four?

If I recall correctly, she escaped because Joffrey's death and the resulting turmoil gave them (the one knight, I think, and then Littlefinger) the opening to get away. Her disappearing made Cersei believe she was in on it with Tyrion (her husband at the time).

[peggy06]

Quote

I am always amazed that Daenerys' accomplishments are dismissed or ignored by so many fans,

Typical fandom thing IMO. Seen it many times. The complaints about Daenerys in that first meeting with Jon puzzle me. She is positioning herself as ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, based on lineage, and the North is one of the Seven Kingdoms.  She invited him in that guise, and he came. Is she supposed to act all humble and apologetic? Is she supposed to make a show of weakness right off the bat? She doesn't know him any more than he knows her. It's the first she's hearing about an army of the dead (and he didn't do a great job of explaining). Both are right to be wary. 

Also, as soon as their second meeting, things were on a much more open basis. But Jon has to get a lot better at describing the WW threat if he wants to convince people. It was the same when he returned from Hard Home. Frustrates me no end.

Edited August 5, 2017 by peggy06

[SeanC]

20 hours ago, Star Aristille said:

Wait.  Cersei thinks Sansa killed Joffrey, too?!  Is that why she fled King's Landing back in season four?

Sansa fled KL because she was a prisoner and wanted to leave.  But that she fled the scene of the crime made Cersei believe she was culpable.

[Bec]

Honestly, the real reason Jon didn't send an emissary is because it's been seven seasons, it's high time for him and Dany to meet already.

They need time to get to know each other so they can stop being all suspicious and just be allies, and the time it takes to mine the dragonglass will probably be exactly how long it takes for them to do that.

Of course Dany acts like she's somehow destined to rule the seven kingdoms, like someone else already mentioned, it's not like Westeros is anything close to a democracy, "who has some divine power chosen to rule over everything?" used to be the major form of government in our real life world, and monarchs throughout history has made the claim that they're the chosen one, without even hatching three dragons or walking through fire to "prove it".

I vaguely remember there was this big scene where Dany said to the former slaves "you're free to go, but you can follow me if you want to" (not her exact words, but it was something like that, heh). I suppose she did force the former slave-owners to be her subjects, though. They were not happy campers.

It's not doing Jon any favors to wish he gets the Iron Throne. It's a safe bet he'll be miserable there. Hell, I bet whoever gets it in the end will be miserable. Even if they think they want it now, it'd be a "be careful what you wish for" kind of thing.

[Mabinogia]

I think the only reason Dany wants and thinks she is entitled to the Iron Throne is because she was told most of her life that it is the Targareon birthright, that their family should be on the throne and that it was taken from them. It was her brothers only goal in life, to get that throne back. She doesn't know anything about Westeros other than what she's been told so she has this skewed view of what it is like. I think she's obsessed with it only because she's been told her whole life that it's the only thing that matters but once she gets the throne (if she does) I think she will realize that it really isn't what she wants. She's not a Westrosian. All the politics the underhanded scheming and backstabbing aren't her thing. She goes back to Mereen, Jon goes back to the North and Westros is gone because Cercei blew it up rather than see anyone else on her throne.

[Macbeth]

4 hours ago, Bec said:

Honestly, the real reason Jon didn't send an emissary is because it's been seven seasons, it's high time for him and Dany to meet already.

 

Seriously. No more running around in circles or in one place.  The people with the best abilities to address the dead army are finally in the room and the subject has at least been broached.  I mean the first scene of the series was about the dead rising.

So I am so thrilled.

[ShannaB]

5 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

 She goes back to Mereen, Jon goes back to the North and Westros is gone because Cercei blew it up rather than see anyone else on her throne.

My take....Cercei realizes that she has lost and plans to blow up KL rather then have any else take the throne.  Jaime is forced to kill the Mad Queen to prevent all the innocents from dying..  Full circle.

I am betting that we see a shirtless Jon soon so that Dany can see the scar over his heart.  Has to happen since Dany asked Tyrion if she heard Davos correctly.  Can't wait!

[riley702]

11 hours ago, Bec said:

I vaguely remember there was this big scene where Dany said to the former slaves "you're free to go, but you can follow me if you want to" (not her exact words, but it was something like that, heh).

That was at Astapor. The speech starts at about the 5 minute mark:

[The Companion]

On 7/30/2017 at 9:07 PM, AimingforYoko said:

And Euron is the BEST. How much did I love him trolling Jaime? 

I don't love Euron (he is a little much for me), but I did love him trolling Jamie.  That part was absolutely hilarious, especially when he starts asking Jamie what his sister is into. I also cannot imagine Cersei would ever let him stick around after she is done with him. After all, he seemed to be getting a lot of attention, and we know how Cersei feels about sharing the spotlight.

On 7/30/2017 at 9:11 PM, Couver said:

Boo at the show not showing Highgarden for seven seasons only to show a tiny bit of it after it was sacked! I actually pictured it looking more like Casterly Rock and Casterly Rock looking more like Highgarden did.

The Sansa and Bran reunion was touching but marred a bit by how lifeliess Bran behaved. I guess that's part of his transformation. But of all the things to use to let Sansa know you can see things you choose to discuss one of her worst traumas? And if his powers have advanced that far can he just find Ayra?

I wanted to see so much more of both of them. I know there was no real cause in the show, but the description of Highgarden was so compelling in the earlier seasons.

I know Bran was fairly lifeless, but Sophie Turner sold the hell out of that scene and I definitely got a little choked up. Her eyes showed so much sadness when Jon left. They have been separated for so long and you could just feel her worrying that she was being left all alone again. The shock of finding her little brother and her absolute joy was amazing to watch. 

On 7/30/2017 at 9:12 PM, Daisy said:

Actually, I know there's going to be all these "Cersei is horrible." but really - Ellaria had it coming. Oberon died in a fair fight, and because Oberon was more obssessed to get his justice (where no one would give a crap anyway), than to actually make sure the mountain was dead. (which is still to date the ONLY thing on this show i can't re-watch). 

Ellaria's answer was to then murder Myrcella (and take over everything) to hurt Cersei in something she really had nothing to do with (and I'm defending Cersei. what mad world is this?). She was going on what she knew/thought, Tyrion killed Joffery. So basically Cersei was basically giving Ellaria the business and giving Ellaria exactly what she did to Cersei. But see it. like Jamie did. 
 

I hate both of them, so there were never going to be any winners for me in that show down. That being said, Cersei sat there smirking as Oberyn was killed. It wasn't just that she played a part in Oberyn's death, its that the arrogant witch can't figure out how to throw up a poker face every once in awhile. There is also the fact that she just has to one up everyone else in her revenge plots. She is going to leave that poor girl (who may or may not be an innocent like Myrcella) rotting in front of her mother. Presumably, that is because she herself couldn't stop imagining her daughter rotting, but she was spared either watching Myrcella die or watching Myrcella rot. She can't just kill people, she has to take pleasure in it (and even had blood lust after sticking it to Ellaria). Contrast that with the executions we have seen in the north. It is one thing to punish someone, it is another thing to enjoy it. She is as sick as Ramsey.

On 7/30/2017 at 9:30 PM, Popples said:

I want her to get eaten by a dragon. Like she tries to escape somewhere when everything has gone to hell, then just when she thinks she's safe, we see a small light emitting from the throat of a dragon and they get a nice, crispy snack.

And her joy will turn to ashes in her mouth.

On 7/30/2017 at 9:35 PM, TrininisaScorp said:

Well, I really enjoyed the long awaited meeting between Dany and Jon!  They were very true to themselves.  I thought it was a great power move to have the dragons flying on Jon's long walk up to the castle.  IMO, I think they both had rough edges tonight, but it really worked for me and you can see a sense of mutual respect developing.   I also loved how fiery Davos was to describe Jon's deeds.  That contrasted nicely with the titles intro piece.

Cersei is a monster.  We know.  Everyone knows.  And she'll get hers (my hopes are for dragon fire).  But for me, Jaime is worse.  She has always been a psycho.  He has/had a choice and he chose.  I loved that Olenna (RIP, you wonderful creature) got the last word in and that he know knows it wasn't Tyrion that killed Joffery.  And I hope that bit of knowledge comes around to bite Cersei in her evil ass.  But Jamie, you just killed the coolest of cool old ladies and wiped out an entire house.  Fuck you, man.  Believe your lies and delusions.  As much as I could care less about Euron, I'm enjoying him using Jamie as a verbal punching bag.

I loved that it was a bit awkward, with some posturing here and some distrust there. We have seen both of these characters for 7 seasons, and we want them to know what we know. When you think about it, the power families all know everything about one another. It has to be an odd experience for Jon to be talking to someone who doesn't trust him simply because the Starks don't lie. It has to be weird for Dany to have to explain why she deserves the throne from scratch after establishing herself for years. I had no problem with the posturing on both sides, and I loved to see just a bit of movement from both of them. I also thought Tyrion was a great go between, and I loved his point to Jon - ask for something smaller and learn more about her. 

Olenna's death scene was satisfying (while being SO SAD), in several ways but perhaps most satisfying was her ability to take the victory out of it. I loved that she confessed, knowing that she was going to die. I loved that she called Jamie out on his ridiculous devotion to a woman who is truly devoted to herself and is clearly devolving into madness. 

There was a lot of resignation from Jamie. He boxed himself into a corner and now he is stuck with the crazy. I think he truly does love his sister, but love just isn't enough when the object of your affection is a crazy sociopath. I am sad that we saw a lot of inner struggle only to have him basically get pulled back into the same toxic place he started. There have been several characters lately who have called him out on it. How do you live with yourself? Don't you see that your sister is crazy? I want to believe that it will eventually reach him but he feels too far gone. 

On 7/30/2017 at 9:39 PM, LittleIggy said:

Sophie Turner has grown into a very beautiful woman. I love Sansa's Lady of Winterfell costumes.

She is gorgeous and I love the way they have been styling her. She really brings some gravitas to the role. I am impressed with all of the children that they cast. It is hard to know what a kid is going to be able to do with a meaty role in a few years. Sophie Turner and Maisie Williams in particular have really brought it. 

On 7/30/2017 at 10:01 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Well, as sad as it is to see her go, Olenna got a hell of an exit.  Just slamming down the poison like it was nothing and then going "Oh, hey, remember how that little prick of a son of yours died?  That was me!  The Queen of Thorns, sisterfucker!  Suck on that!" about Joffery?  Brilliant.  Loved Jaime/Nikolaj Coster-Waldau's reaction, because there was a whole lot of simmering anger, but I also saw a glimpse of regret due to him kicking himself for thinking it was Tyrion that did it.  But still, that scene was all Diana Rigg.  She was nothing of spectacular on this show.  She will be missed, but what a way to go.

I think this was exactly the subtext. This description of that scene legitimately made me choke on my coffee. I agree on the glimpse of regret. Was he wondering if he backed the wrong horse, or just regretting that they had divided the Lannisters as he and Cersei had feared? Either way, it was nice to see his confidence waiver.

On 7/30/2017 at 11:59 PM, Couver said:

Jamie was so foolish when he told Olenna people wouldn't care once Cersei brought peace after defeating her enemies. One thing the show has depicted well is that Cersei will never not have enemies. She'll beat some but then inevitably make more. Peace was a real possibility with Tommen in power but her jealousy of Margaery  caused her to literally blow up any chance at peace up.

So much this! In what world can Cersei bring about peace? She is always going to find someone she wants to destroy. Margaery may have been conniving, but she treated Tommen well and he seemed to truly care about her and Cersei just coudn't stand for that. She has shown a complete unwillingness to build bridges, form alliances, or do anything that may require an ounce of thought for someone other than Cersei. 

On 7/31/2017 at 1:12 AM, HunterHunted said:

This was really common in history. A new queen would be crowned and the ladies at court would change their style of dress and hairstyles. The show has already done a bit of this when Margaery was engaged to Joffrey. A lot of the younger ladies at court started dressing like her.

I just read an article about ladies adopting a limp to emulate Princess Alexandra. http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-magazine-monitor-28357269 Then again, knowing Cersei's love for all things Cersei, I can totally imagine her forcing everyone to cut their hair so she wasn't the only one without long locks.

On 7/31/2017 at 7:46 AM, DarkRaichu said:

That and Dany asked if Tyrion tried to pass his opinion as ancient wisdom :D :D :D

This cracked me up. "I would never do that . . . to you."

 

On 7/31/2017 at 10:24 AM, ShannaB said:

I have no problem with the way Bran is acting because he really isn't Bran anymore.  I think he feels a familial bond but he has a purpose and is all seeing.  I thought Sansa's reaction to Bran 's vision about her wedding was perfect.  We saw a similar reaction with Varys  when Melisandre told him about his death.  Both Sansa and Varys were shaken to their core.

Two things about that scene with Cercei and Jaime - (1) Yes, Cersei could have been on a bloodlust high after her visit with Ellaria but I thought it was great timing on Cersei's part to insure Jaime's love and devotion in the coming (no pun intended) battles.  (2) I wonder how Jaime would have felt if he had known what Cersei had just used her mouth for down in the dungeon.  Hmmmmm.

I suspect Bran is just trying to figure out how to be the three eyed raven, but he has also been under a tree for years with almost no contact with the outside world, so he really should be a bit off anyway. I think he was trying to connect with Sansa about her wedding and then realized that the rest of the night made it a not so happy memory. That being said, I can't fault him for it. We were all talking about how beautiful she was that night. 

My husband said the same thing. I hope she wiped her mouth off. How amazing would it be if Jamie just dropped dead a week later because he was poisoned? 

 

On 7/31/2017 at 1:42 PM, Traveller519 said:

My only reservation is that it undercuts the impending doom of the Army of the Dead. What exactly are they up to up there? I know we can't very well check-in on the Night King since he's this foreboding presence, but I would laugh if we saw him and his generals standing around an Ice Map of Westeros, with Ice Troop Markers on it.

That is an amazing mental image. His zombie advisors around him positioning troops. I love it.

On 7/31/2017 at 9:06 PM, sashabear21 said:

I just wish Jon would have been smart enough to bring Lady Boss Bear Lyanna Mormont with him. She would have been all hand up,  "Enough with the titles! We're not here to hear those! The King in the North has some business to discuss". They would not have been relieved of their weapons, that boat would have stayed put, and Dany would have been paying them to take away the Dragonglass before it was all said and done.  Jon, always take Lyanna Mormont with you, everywhere.  

Would that we could all have Lady Boss Bear Lyanna Mormont follow us around and deal with obnoxious people. 

 

On 8/2/2017 at 0:17 AM, Lady S. said:

Yeah, she clearly believed Marg was the YMBQ and Marg was just another queen consort. And "I will be Queen?" to the witch was in response to being told she'd marry the king. I don't think li'l Cersei would have any reason to expect to be a ruling queen when that was unheard of in Westeros and she had no claim to the throne. Back in s5 she didn't even bother to name herself Tommen's Hand, saying she knew it would be improper for a woman to do that when Kevan challenged her about sitting in Tywin's chair. She had to go through a lot and kill a lot of people to get the point of just seizing the throne. Up til then she'd tried to just rule through her sons and would have been happy enough if Tommen could just be her puppet with no influence from Marg.

I don't think she thought the prophecy included her serving as queen, but I recall thinking it sounded like that to me. Her first question was whether she would marry the prince and she was told she would marry the king. She then asked whether she would be queen and the witch said: "You'll be queen, for a time. Then comes another, younger, more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear." The way it was phrased "for a time" seemed to me like it was something different than her title as queen consort. 

She may have let Tommen stand if he would be her puppet, but she clearly wanted to rule in his stead. She didn't seem to bother to even use him as a puppet. She just showed up places, made demands and claimed Tommen had backed them.

On 8/3/2017 at 1:33 AM, Star Aristille said:

Loved Cersei's scene with Ellaria and Tyene.  Lena Headey was definitely excellent, and she made me believe that Cersei was absolutely furious at Ellaria over Myrcella's completely pointless murder.  I don't get why anyone would doubt Cersei loved her children.  I think she's a stone-cold, evil monster of a bitch, to be sure.  But I never saw one thing from her that made me think she didn't care about her children.  And I did feel a bit for Tyene, since she had nothing to do with Myrcella's death.  But it makes sense.  A daughter for a daughter.

 

Ok, so clearly I hate Cersei, so perhaps she is just my BEC, but I would say she either loves herself more than her kids or that her love is so twisted that she is incapable of loving them in a normal manner. When she talks about her love for her kids, she often talks about it in relation to herself. She doesn't want the best for them or happiness for them, she wants them to love her and only her. It was most pronounced with Tommen. He was clearly smitten with his wife but she did not care because she didn't like Margaery. She made no attempt to play nice. She got his wife thrown in to prison (and for all she knew her grandchild) and made no efforts to extract her even after she realized how awful the place was. We have never seen her make sacrifices for her children. Instead, she is constantly expecting them to defer to her, and she is constantly manipulating them. Perhaps the worst of it is that she seems to love them because they are a reflection of herself (just like I think she loves Jamie because it is the closest she can get to herself). 

 

Overall, this episode delivered. I am particularly relieved to see Sir Jorah back up and running, and I hope that he is able to get to Dany and make a difference. It would be cool if he could make it while Jon was still there and they could compare notes on Sam and Sir Jorah's dad. I really enjoyed his interaction with Sam. This show has done a lot of random pairings over the years, and that was one I didn't anticipate but I really liked it. 

I am dying to have Arya get to Winterfell. I want three Starks in one place. 

[riley702]

8 hours ago, The Companion said:

Ok, so clearly I hate Cersei, so perhaps she is just my BEC...

I had to google BEC, and now I'm sitting here giggling over a bitch eating crackers.

[The Companion]

8 hours ago, riley702 said:

I had to google BEC, and now I'm sitting here giggling over a bitch eating crackers.

Lol. I am 99% sure I picked up around here somewhere. It is an incredibly useful term. 

 

ETA: you KNOW Cersei would be sitting there eating crackers like she owned the place.

Edited August 18, 2017 by The Companion

[Jamoche]

On 7/31/2017 at 1:39 PM, Jamoche said:

Sam's more patient than I would be, but he was right that there are books that contain useful information the others are ignoring, so now his "punishment" of transcribing books is really an excuse to give him exactly what he's looking for. Books that are so old and neglected that nobody has copied them? Yeah, the maester knows what's up, and knows that if he drew anyone's attention to Sam or those books they'd both be mocked and someone else would put Sam back on bedpan duty.

Boy, was I ever wrong about that! I've given up expecting intelligence out of the people in charge...

[wayne67]

It would have been nice if Jon verbalised the threat more clearly than just saying the White Walkers were coming... Something along the lines of there's at least several White Walkers who can raise the dead who can only be killed by fire and they have an army of thousands. A single line that would convey more relevance than simply saying the threat is dire.

After all it's been 7? years and the White Walkers have done very little except attack an unknown (to Westerosi) Wildling settlement. He never bothered to mention fighting a wight in the Night's Watch or how effective the undead army was at killing. He's said very little of any value.

Yes I am very late to this party, I only started watching this season yesterday. 

[NYCFree]

On 7/31/2017 at 8:25 PM, enoughcats said:

Want to climb up to Dany's castle?  

In an interview Jon talked about worrying about being blown off the cliff in his scene with Peter.

That was shot at

San Juan de Gaztelugatxe   in Spain. 

If you use Google Maps, you can find that on the north coast of Spain, and switch to satellite and use the orange walking man icon, you can climb/walk up that long climb up to the castle.  A heck of a climb (and fun to do long distance.) Especially go out to the building and look down and back (south) to the mainland.

I want to thank you for posting this. Oddly enough my son and I are in a suburb of Bilbao for a week and we are  watching one episode of Season 7 every day. So today we went to look at the rock pathway/bridge. It was totally cool and the drive there was lovely. We wouldn’t have done it without your writing about it—Thanks!