PODCAST S01.E04 Go Pirates!: You Love Me, Don't You

[Primetimer]

Veronica takes on some gamers, but the episode's really all about Lilly Kane.

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[Primetimer]

Veronica busts a couple hackers; John and Sarah bust on aughties fashion and simpy one-off love interests in the most important pics from S01.E04.

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[Petunia13]

Lilly was so adorable and likable. 

I think this show was the last time I REAAAALY shipped a couple. 

[MostlyC]

I must be getting old...I was thinking, Lily's dress is too low cut.

And Duncan and Logan are so cute that evening.  I like Logan- how he was with Lilly and the look he and Veronica shared at the end.

As for the con part....ah well, I guess they had to embrace the cliche.

[topanga]

--I agree that Lily's dress was too low cut. She must have had a wardrobe malfunction (or several) in that dress.

--I didn't start to ship Logan and Veronica until much later in the season. I rather enjoyed Logan's slow transition from hostile asshole to slightly-less-hostile asshole who respected and eventually liked Veronica. 

--I agree with Sarah and John that the use of flashbacks was perfect in this episode. I really got a sense of who Lily was and why Veronica missed her so much

[secnarf]

My best friend growing up was nothing like Lily, but this episode made me try to imagine how I would feel if she died, and as a result I cried the first three times I watched this episode (I was in high school when this episode first aired - and luckily my best friend is still alive and well!)

The flashbacks are my favourite part of the episode, hands down. Amanda Seyfried was absolutely perfect as Lily.

[Affogato]

Some recent award show Kristen Bell was quoted as preparing to wear the dress she was wearing by duct taping her nipples to her shoulders. I wonder if this episode was where she learned that trick?

[Affogato]

A lot happens in this episode, really a lot.

Whenever I see these flashbacks I hear music, specifically "Misty watercolored mem'ries of the way we were" (cue orchestra). It is really annoying.  I think Lilly is so perfect here because Veronica is fixing her friend (and those times) in her memory as perfect, not that Lilly didn't look like that, but she probably wasn't absolutely wonderful, and I think there are hints of that later. 

I keep on thinking how different it would all look if everyone in the limo looked the age they were supposed to be. Lilly and Logan's confident sexual front would seem to smack of way early sexualization, even suggest one or the other was ... well, I think the general impression would be different and maybe less savoury. 

My other thought for the episode is that, in my humble opinion, the main struggle Veronica has  is her little blond girl desire to please people (read the patriarchal society, too) as opposed to her alpha jerk personality that demands people clear out of her way (I think by the movie small blonde girl is a goner). So in the flashbacks she's pleasing Liane, and like little girls often do, pleasing her dad by trying to be like her mom ( hooked up with the Kanes and dressing in that quaint retro way) but now in the present her mother has run off and she's pleasing her Dad for real, and doing a much better job of it because Keith and Veronica are soulmates (or at least originally started out as the same exact character, they always think alike). In the first season I think their similarities are emphasized and they do communicate as equals, but I don't think it is sexual. 

I think there are hints that Lilly saw the real Veronica and that Logan and Duncan really didn't have a clue.

[MostlyC]

I loved this episode.  Even though the Con bit was kind of lame, and it hasn't aged well at ALL.

Lilly is great but I worried (In my head) that she had it in her to be a mean girl, and when she was, that she was beyond terrible.  I wonder how Veronica felt about Lilly running around on Logan (although Logan ran around on Lilly, and they definitely had the high school tempestuous "do I date you/do I hate you" relationship). 

But I loved all the flashbacks- they were epic.  And the night was worth the (probable) weeks long grounding Veronica got.

[topanga]

8 hours ago, Affogato said:

Some recent award show Kristen Bell was quoted as preparing to wear the dress she was wearing by duct taping her nipples to her shoulders. I wonder if this episode was where she learned that trick?

Sounds painful. And I don't know...you could see most of Lily's boob, and it didn't look like her nipples were veering towards her shoulders. 

[MostlyC]

Some recent award show Kristen Bell was quoted as preparing to wear the dress she was wearing by duct taping her nipples to her shoulders

Not only does it sound painful, but I'm having trouble visualizing it (ew, not like that).  Duct taping like wrapping around to torso or vertically like straps?  Off to google?

[scarynikki12]

I had classmates in college who used duct tape and did exactly what Kristen described, though they placed swatches of fabric between the tape and the nipples. 

It would depend on the cut of the dress but, for Lilly's, you'd use the tape like suspenders and just focus on staying under the dress.

[Clare]

I love this episode.  The relationship between the four friends.  This really sets up what everyone lost.  I can understand why losing her would be devastating for this group.

  I liked the MOTW, I know it doesn't really hold up but Veronica calling Wallace 'Papabear' kills me.  I like the scenes at the Cybercafe and the college.  Also Enrico is hot walking around with the DEA jacket with the dog. 

In my head LoVe was pronounced Low Vee.   I know they became really problematic as a couple but damn do KB and JD have chemistry.  

Edited July 2, 2017 by Clare
spelling

[sweetandsour]

The taller brunet criminal reminds of a more unkempt Billy McFarland of Fyre Festival infamy! I wish he had said, "let's just do this and be legends, man," in this episode.

[John Potts]

I always thought LoVe was pronounced, well, Love.

One point I remember from the old TWoP Forums - on the way back from her skinny dip, unless she walked backward out of the waves, she'd have given those in the limo a full frontal display (why do I remember THAT and NOTHING else about the episode!).

Still, good to hear that this rewatch has enabled Sarah to work out her high school issues.

Edited July 3, 2017 by John Potts

[Affogato]

On 7/1/2017 at 11:51 PM, scarynikki12 said:

I had classmates in college who used duct tape and did exactly what Kristen described, though they placed swatches of fabric between the tape and the nipples. 

It would depend on the cut of the dress but, for Lilly's, you'd use the tape like suspenders and just focus on staying under the dress.

I think sticking your butt out of the car would make her lose control of her boobs.

[Melgaypet]

It really would have been much easier to buy the skinny dip if the dance was over and they were on their way back. Troy's (hilarious) nervousness would have made more sense as well.

Forgive me for forgetting already, but I don't recall if you guys mentioned Weevil's crying at Lilly's memorial? I remember being very intrigued by that, even as Jake Kane was also setting off my Leland Palmer bells.

[Sarah D. Bunting]

Quote

this rewatch has enabled Sarah to work out her high school issues

I don't think those will ever get worked out tbh but I appreciate everyone's patience.

[John Ramos]

On 7/3/2017 at 0:21 PM, Melgaypet said:

Forgive me for forgetting already, but I don't recall if you guys mentioned Weevil's crying at Lilly's memorial? I remember being very intrigued by that, even as Jake Kane was also setting off my Leland Palmer bells.

I think we didn't mention it in this episode, but we definitely reference it in the future!

[AmandaPanda]

I'm fairly certain that Kyla Pratt's one and done appearance as Georgia was another network intervention. At the time, she was starring on UPN's One on One, which was in its third season. It was probably similar to the Paris Hilton appearance, where they were trying for the name recognition to get viewers to tune in. 

[Earmuffs Mom]

Wasn't one of the tech mafia guys the same guy that played a doctor on Grey's Anatomy that got shot during the hospital shooting finale?  

[Sarah D. Bunting]

I think IMDb confirms that (I don't watch that show).

[jeansheridan]

This is the ep I fell in love with Logan. And the chemistry of all four of them.

But it was Logan begging Duncan to let him do the video because he knew how hard it would be for his friend. Zing! Logan with a heart.

I did not like how Bell's wig made her look like SJP. And her voice.

[topanga]

On 7/15/2017 at 11:30 AM, jeansheridan said:

I did not like how Bell's wig made her look like SJP. And her voice.

I know, right? A know we were watching a younger (by one year!) more innocent Veronica, but that baby voice got on my nerves. I didn't mind the wig as much--I like the way it whipped around whenever V turned her head. 

[Affogato]

45 minutes ago, topanga said:

I know, right? A know we were watching a younger (by one year!) more innocent Veronica, but that baby voice got on my nerves. I didn't mind the wig as much--I like the way it whipped around whenever V turned her head. 

I thought it made her look older and I usually wonder if there isn't some better way to do those flashbacks. I guess we can assume that Veronica deliberately moderates her voice when she cuts off her hair and changes her clothing. I would. We know she is a good actress (we never see Logan act, even though Dohring does, but we see Veronica take on other characters regularly).

[topanga]

37 minutes ago, Affogato said:

I thought it made her look older and I usually wonder if there isn't some better way to do those flashbacks. I guess we can assume that Veronica deliberately moderates her voice when she cuts off her hair and changes her clothing. I would. We know she is a good actress (we never see Logan act, even though Dohring does, but we see Veronica take on other characters regularly).

So so you think her current 'regular' voice is an act? I mean, I know that's Kristen Bell's natural voice, but is it Veronica's? She puts on her 'tough girl' voice with the 09ers and sometimes Weevil, but when she's with her dad or Wallace, she's somewhat light-hearted and even giggly at times, but never the whiny, breathy girl she was around Lilly. So was that an act? Did Veronica want Lilly to protect her, thus adopting the teen girl variety of a damsel in distress? And while we're at it, wasn't Duncan the one who was supposed to protect Veronica if she felt she needed protecting?

[Affogato]

1 hour ago, topanga said:

So so you think her current 'regular' voice is an act? I mean, I know that's Kristen Bell's natural voice, but is it Veronica's? She puts on her 'tough girl' voice with the 09ers and sometimes Weevil, but when she's with her dad or Wallace, she's somewhat light-hearted and even giggly at times, but never the whiny, breathy girl she was around Lilly. So was that an act? Did Veronica want Lilly to protect her, thus adopting the teen girl variety of a damsel in distress? And while we're at it, wasn't Duncan the one who was supposed to protect Veronica if she felt she needed protecting?

Oh, I don't know. Kristen Bell isn't stereotypically feminine in tone or manner and that may be her trying to sound girlish. I think Veronica was imitating her mother, her clothes also seemed dated to me (although considering my age I'm not a huge judge of high school ought fashion). If she'd been hiding behind Lilly she would probably have dressed more like Lilly, since Lilly seemed to put pressure on her to do that.  Also if the 12 year old soccer uniform is any indication she probably was a tomboy and the girlish stuff may have been a recent push when she entered high school.

I honestly don't think people change overnight like that. I think there was a lot of expectation from people, her being just the cuuuutissst widddle thing, but I think the pretext dropped away pretty easily. So yeah, probably intentional but kept it because it was a good fit. By the movie, damn scary.

Edited July 26, 2017 by Affogato

[jeansheridan]

My favorite Veronica characters were all her phone scams. She had such fun with those. Bell was already such a dream then. Pity her film career fizzled. 

[luna1122]

11 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

My favorite Veronica characters were all her phone scams. She had such fun with those. Bell was already such a dream then. Pity her film career fizzled. 

I don't think it's actually fizzled. The Bad Moms flick was really popular and successful enuf to produce a sequel, and she's done good voice work in Frozen and Zootopia, and been in some nice little indies. But yeah, it IS kind of baffling why such a talented, gorgeous actress isn't, like, a HUGE movie star, if she wants to be.

[jeansheridan]

I guess fizzled is harsh. Plus diversifying her resume was smart. But I would have hoped she would have Anna Kendrick-like choices. But with two kids, she may have followed more stable schedules and money. The Good Place is okay for a network comedy. Certainly not an embarrassment. 

Edited July 27, 2017 by jeansheridan

[topanga]

3 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I guess fizzled is harsh. Plus diversifying her resume was smart. But I would have hoped she would have Anna Kendrick-like choices. But with two kids, she may have followed more stable schedules and money. The Good Place is okay for a network comedy. Certainly not an embarrassment. 

I think her choices in movie roles have been questionable (except for Bad Moms). Her TV roles have been more interesting (VM, House of Lies, The Good Place, VO for Gossip Girls [?]) and better showcase her acting range.

[Affogato]

4 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

I guess fizzled is harsh. Plus diversifying her resume was smart. But I would have hoped she would have Anna Kendrick-like choices. But with two kids, she may have followed more stable schedules and money. The Good Place is okay for a network comedy. Certainly not an embarrassment. 

I love The Good Place. Funny and thoughtful.

Yes, most of the movies she makes are pretty mediocre.

Edited July 27, 2017 by Affogato
meant something else

[EyewatchTV211]

9 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I don't think it's actually fizzled. The Bad Moms flick was really popular and successful enuf to produce a sequel, and she's done good voice work in Frozen and Zootopia, and been in some nice little indies. But yeah, it IS kind of baffling why such a talented, gorgeous actress isn't, like, a HUGE movie star, if she wants to be.

I'm pretty sure I read or heard her interviewed where she said she purposely hasn't taken roles in things that could make her a HUGE movie star because she doesn't want the kind of life where she can't go to the supermarket without getting recognized. She's aiming for the mid-level celebrity where people won't necessarily recognize her. She seems to be succeeding with her choices. 

@jeansheridan After initially not being sure about The Good Place, I eventually began to love the show and think it's really great. It is definitely more than okay. The critics generally seemed to agree, with some feeling the show was snubbed by the Emmy voters.

[jeansheridan]

I enjoy The Good Place but it won't age well. I don't generally like comedies so it is probably me. Points for a diverse cast however and Janet is delightful in small doses.

[Affogato]

On 7/30/2017 at 5:11 PM, jeansheridan said:

I enjoy The Good Place but it won't age well. I don't generally like comedies so it is probably me. Points for a diverse cast however and Janet is delightful in small doses.

I think it may age well because its themes, ethics, morality, have staying power.