Let's try to market this: media, articles and interviews

[caracas1914]

Alex O'Loughlin. He was a lead on a CBS show called Moonlight, which was cancelled after the first season, but after cancellation CBS signed him to a development deal. Then they first cast him as a lead in Three Rivers, which also failed in the first season, yet CBS still cast him next as a lead in the Hawaii Five-O remake, which was finally successful.

 

 

True, tall white  leading men  get about 6 or 7 shots at TV stardom.  Alex is a perfect example.

 

I do think that HW isn't going to hold any of the cast responsible for Glee's demise ( I especially read this directed  at Lea all the time, as the "face" of Glee ).  Short of a Kathering Heigle attitude on a show, most HW folks seem to realize that TV show fails for a myriad of reasons and just trudge forward casting people with experience.

Edited December 24, 2014 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

I do think that HW isn't going to hold any of the cast responsible for Glee's demise

 

 

Because they're not biased to a particular actor and realize that many things contribute to a show's failings - writing, cast chemistry, acting, network scheduling, etc. 

[Glorfindel]

Well I think that excuse is wrong too.  I simply don't think Mia is out promote Darren at Chris' expense nor that the writer's are trying to keep Kurt's story hidden.

I cannot see the bts video of 'Old Dog, New Tricks' as anything else than Mia blatantly promoting Darren over Chris, and Darren went along with it quite enthusiastically.

Having Darren babble on endlessly about what he would do if he were asked to write an episode (yeah, like that would ever happen) and especially him basically making a fool of himself by assuming people would immediately think of him when all Chris' awards, noms and further achievements were listed, in a bts video that was about Chris' episode..... that was highly unprofessional and biased of Mia. So why would that have changed now, when there's even more evidence piling up with every promo that comes out that features Darren heavily and leaves out Chris (and others) completely?

 

And tbh: if I hadn't known it was Darren's girlfriend who had made the bts of 'Old Dog, New Tricks' I would have thought someone in the promo department of Glee had it in for Darren and wanted to deliberately expose him as the fake-humble-but-actually-jealous attention seeker he clearly was in that video. It was cringeworthy to watch, so if this is Mia's idea of promoting her boyfriend then I think it's going to bite them in the butt, because it made them both look petty and unprofessional.

 

I think caracas  and Sara have a point because I keep going back to the bts for Chris' episode. Even if he checked out last season, getting to write an episode about what he wanted for Kurt, and use some favourite veteran actors was not him checked out at all. They interviewed him for the bts then, so he had time for that. The end result is well known.

Imo Chris didn't check out last season. He was quite willing and even honored to write for Glee, and afraid he wouldn't do justice to all characters involved. I don't blame him for writing mostly for Kurt, as no other writer had really done that in years.

And although Chris seldom tweets about Glee so it's hard to tell, there were definitely some things in season 5 he was enthusiastic about, like 'Previously Unaired Christmas', Adam Lambert, Whoopi, singing a duet with Amber, and of course the guest stars in his own episode.

 

I think if Chris is over anything it's Klaine and (in close connection to that) the lack of storylines for Kurt as an individual. Or at least he refuses to portray Kurt as still completely and blindly head over heels in love with Blaine and their relationship being Kurt's only focus, which imo is an excellent acting choice considering the history and storylines Klaine got, and is true to his character (and whoever directed those scenes must have thought his acting sufficient and fitting, or else Chris would have been corrected on the spot and told to do the scene again).

But even if Chris is just waiting for Glee to be over now (and who would blame him for that?), he has never been anything than professional, especially when talking about Glee with the media, and would definitely do bts videos if asked. I bet he's also ambitious enough to want to have some of the PR and exposure he and his character deserve as an original regular, a lead, and still awards winning actor (the PCA's may be not as prestigious as a Golden Globe or Emmy nom, but it still shows he's a fan favorite), especially when some of his peers get so much when he gets nothing.

 

To be honest I find it rather remarkable that almost every time Chris (and Kurt) doesn't get much in the show, whether it's songs, screentime, POV (especially when it comes to Klaine), and now even the bts videos, somehow it gets heavily suggested it's all probably his own choice, his own fault even.

When so far that has been disproven and debunked each and every time.

Edited December 24, 2014 by Glorfindel

[camussie]

Genuinely puzzled how the lack of Chris  this year puts  the onus on HIM as if he is somehow responsible for the lack of   BTS/promo.   Don't understand the reasoning that it's his fault and that somehow he has the clout to keep people away from him for BTS and promos because of his lack of cooperation.

 

 

and

 

To be honest I find it rather remarkable that almost every time Chris (and Kurt) doesn't get much in the show, whether it's songs, screentime, POV (especially when it comes to Klaine), and now even the bts videos, somehow it gets heavily suggested it's all probably his own choice, his own fault even.

 

 

Seeing as how I posted the following

 

That said it still is wrong as I am sure if asked Chris would do the promo work.

 

 

That is not to say Chris wouldn't do it, if asked.  I am sure he would and let me be clear they should ask him but it is to say that all of the production team, including the PR team, is really doing the bare minimum.

 

 

I think I made it more than clear that I am absolutely NOT blaming Chris for him not being in the BTS the scenes stuff.  I am saying Mia is to blame but i think she is to blame for a different reason than some sort of agenda regarding Darren and Chris.  I think she is to blame because she, like the rest of the production team, are simply doing the are minimum.  

 

Imo Chris didn't check out last season.

 

 

I think he did with his acting even as I acknowledged he was very enthusiastic to be wearing a different hat with writing "Old Dog, New Tricks"

Edited December 24, 2014 by camussie

[Hana Chan]

If Mia was doing the minimum, then all of the cast would be equally affected with a lack of focus. It's not quite as noticeable with Kevin, because he's rarely been used heavily for promotion, but it is very noticeable with Chris. He's been a very prominent face of Glee since midway through season one and for him to have been excluded from all promotional video that Mia has done for this season so far, as well as being sidelined through much of last season once Mia took over the BTS bit has been noticed. And reducing promotion certainly hasn't affected how much Darren gets featured.

 

As I and others pointed out, it was insane that for the episode that Chris wrote and was the lead actor in last season he was barely in the BTS video. But we had plenty of Darren going ME ME ME! And "joking" how it would be understandable that he might be mistaken for a Golden Globe winning actor or what he would do if he wrote an episode. So I don't buy that Chris not being seen in the latest promotional material is accidental or an oversite.

 

Let me be blunt here... I think that Darren (and Mia) are getting worried that Glee is wrapping production for good in a few weeks and thus far, we've got no confirmed new projects for Darren. He's going to be out of work very shortly and he's hardly high profile enough to survive being out of the public eye for long and be able to maintain career momentum. I think that Mia is doing everything she possibly can in order to try to keep Darren on people's radar so that maybe one of these rumored opportunities for him post-Glee actually materializes. It's unprofessional, but that's what you get when you hire someone's SO and they prove that they cannot act in the show's interest (focusing on their partner's). And if Darren's fortunes fade, it's just going to make Mia look even more foolish for squandering her professional credibility to try to keep his career afloat.

[caracas1914]

Casmussie: I think it is more along the lines that everyone is coasting and since to me it is obvious Chris is over the whole thing the people doing what little BTS promo work there is simply aren't going to go out of there way to ask a cast member to participate who is obviously ready to roll on from this train wreck.

 

Let me get this straight.  So somehow because Chris (per you) communicates in a clearer way that he is over the show and thus less likely to want  to  participate  the BTS people ask Lea, Jane, Matt, Chord, Darren, Dot and Amber instead.   They are not "going out of there" to interview those cast members but it takes an extra effort to interview Chris because of his attitude apparently.  So Chris is the difficult one because it takes an extra effort to recruit him.  Again "out of there way".    Your words.   Unlike Lea, Jane, Matt, Chord, Darren, Dot and Amber who you strongly implied are more cooperative and easier for the BTS crew.

 

Seriously?

 

Sorry, but if sounds, smells and talks like putting the onus and blame on Chris for not being used, even with the qualifier " I'm not blaming him". IMO that certainly was what you were doing.

Edited December 24, 2014 by caracas1914

[caracas1914]

And if Darren's fortunes fade, it's just going to make Mia look even more foolish for squandering her professional credibility to try to keep his career afloat.

 

With Mia IMO she''s either,

a) staggeringly unprofessional and biased

b) staggeringly stupid in her stated profession (PR)

c) staggeringly lazy and inept

 

Or could it a combination of all three.

[camussie]

Well your opinion is wrong because once again I am NOT blaming him which I said QUITE CLEARLY. But to clarify one more time "out of her way" was not the best wording on my part so I apologize for that.    What I meant is that when ANY project (be it a TV show or a new IT system) is obviously a train-wreck like Glee most people will put in a minimum effort and I think that is where all aspects of the production team is.  That means if there is something extra to be done they will simply say you, you, and you who aren't  over this mess do it even if there is someone who is more qualified to do it, who would be glad to do it, and who would be a professional when doing it (as I think  would be the case with Chris).  I am saying I think it is Mia's incompetence at "reading the room" when it comes to the actors driving this rather than some sort of agenda that involves tearing down Chris to promote Darren.

Edited December 24, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

That means if there is something extra to be done they will simply say you, you, and you who aren't  over this mess do it even if there is someone who is more qualified to do it, who would be glad to do it, and who would be a professional when doing it (as I think  would be the case with Chris).  I am saying I think it is Mia's incompetence at "reading the room" when it comes to the actors driving this rather than some sort of agenda that involves tearing down Chris to promote Darren.

 

Is that what you think happened with the BTS promo for "Old Dogs, New Tricks".  That Mia through sheer ineptitude decided that Darren needed the most screen time for a episode he was minimally in, on a BTS promo ostensibly about Chris the writer of the episode.  So she "read the room" that Chris didn't want to be focused on a BTS promo for his first written episode?  So she "read the room" that Darren needed to be featured in that BTS promo, but with no agenda at all, naturally.

 

Or perhaps Mia "read the room" by analyzing which of their onscreen acting performances indicated they were over Glee ?  So her performance "analysis" has no hidden agenda either.

 

I am curious if that is what you think..

Edited December 24, 2014 by caracas1914

[Sara2009]

There's been nary a word about any of the actors behaving as if they're " over it" on set. Because of that, I'm not sure Mia could " read the room."

[camussie]

Honestly I didn't really get the reaction to Darren's part of the BTS for ODNT.  As someone who doesn't really care about Blaine or Kurt and who also isn't all that interested in either Darren's or Chris' career I didn't notice anything off about it.  I have noticed Chris (and Kevin) not being present in the current round of promotion which I chalk up to the BTS team sharing the same crappy ass production values that the rest of the production team has at this point,

 

There's been nary a word about any of the actors behaving as if they're " over it" on set. Because of that, I'm not sure Mia could " read the room."

 

 

I am sure they all are professional on set (and I have NEVER said otherwise) but I stand by my contention that through his ACTING performance I think Chris has seemed over it since about "Trio" on.    I said this long before (as in last season) this current debate over Chris not being in the BTS stuff came up.  

Edited December 24, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

am sure they all are professional on set (and I have NEVER said otherwise) but I stand by my contention that through his ACTING performance I think Chris has seemed over it since about "Trio" on.    I said this long before (as in last season) this current debate over Chris not being in the BTS stuff came up.

 

Ok, so you are saying that Mia "read the room" by critiquing and analyzing their onscreen performances and concluding  that Chris Colfer is so over Glee.  So the BTS team's duty includes studying  which screen  acting determines who gets the BTS footage/interviews.

 

BTW, I have no problem that this is your opinion (though I disagree) with Chris acting,  but rather that Chris' on screen acting , more than his professionalism on set that you don't dispute, is how he contributed to his lack of inclusion in these BTS things?

 

So doesn't this get back to blaming Chris or  at least saying he's somewhat responsible for being excluded from BTS footage/interviews?

Edited December 24, 2014 by caracas1914

[camussie]

I think she probably watches the show and could have gotten the same impression I did and WRONGLY and INCOMPETENTLY extrapolated that to mean that Chris wasn't the person to ask to do BTS stuff because it might mean extra effort for her.  WRONGLY and INCOMPETENTLY because I have every reason to believe he (and Kevin)  would gladly do whatever was asked of them.   Let me be clear, given their very difficult workloads, I think the high level of professionalism among the glee actors is something to be admired.  The one and only time I think we have heard about problems on the set was with Naya last year.  I find that astounding given all that has been asked of them over the years.

 

I realize that I am in the minority about Chris' performance last season and that is one reason my opinion is controversial.  The only thing I can say is that this is an opinion I have consistently had since last season.  

 

So doesn't this get back to blaming Chris or  at least saying he's somewhat responsible for being excluded from BTS footage/interviews?

 

 

No because I blame it on Mia WRONGLY thinking him checking out on his acting from about "Trio" on means that would check out on his other responsibilities as well and there is nothing to indicate that he would.  

Edited December 24, 2014 by camussie

[caracas1914]

I think she probably watches the show and could have gotten the same impression I did and WRONGLY extrapolated that to mean that Chris wasn't the person to ask to do BTS stuff because it might mean extra effort for her.  WRONGLY because I have every reason to believe he (and Kevin)  would gladly do whatever was asked of them.

 

 

Thanks for clarifying your position.  Chris acting per you contributed to Mia's unbiased decision not to use him for BTS footage because unbiasedly she extrapolated his performances indicated it would mean extra work to have him do BTS footage/interviews despite his proven track doing it professionally the first 5 years of the show.

 

All of course with absolutely no agenda.

 

So if Chris acted "better" Mia would have included him in the BTS footage/interviews,  AKA, he contributed to his exclusion.  Which circles back to Glorfindel's statement that whenever he's excluded the burden/responsibility is somehow   put back on Chris, this time precisely because of his lackluster performances.   Thank goodness Darren's acting ensures he will always be featured prominently per Mia's analysis,  unbiased of course, in her  BTS footage/interviews because Mia extrapolates/ sees his acting as totally vested in Glee and worthy of BTS footage, video/interviews, etc..

 

I think I have it clear now.

Edited December 24, 2014 by caracas1914

[Casual Viewing]

I so need a book or two about what really happened behind the scenes in Glee. There were so many rumours about factions and back stabbing, esp. in season 5. Whatever is going with the BTS promos etc., it strikes me as very weird that Chris is excluded. Whether intentional or not on Mia's part, she should be playing fair and unbiased in utilizing everyone, or maybe focusing more on the originals.

Edited December 25, 2014 by Casual Viewing

[dizzyizzy01]

I think people just read too much into things. Personally, I think is fairly obvious how little planning goes into the actual show. I doubt the behind the scenes fares much better.

I do think Darren is inherently easier to get on these simply for the fact he's always ready to mug for a camera, but I do not think there is some master plan on anyone's part. The BTS clips is a very small part of the overall production of the show.

[caracas1914]

"Inherently easier"

Wait what???

Edited December 25, 2014 by caracas1914

[dizzyizzy01]

Perhaps poor word choice, but Darren very obviously likes the BTS team, is often on set, and is very willing to get in front of a camera. It's not to say other actors aren't willing or able.

I just think a lot of people don't realize how little planning goes into some of this stuff. I know there was some media article about the whole fox special ops thing, but i think that article made it sound more sophisticated than it really is. TV production operations are some of the most convoluted things sometimes illogical things out there.

[caracas1914]

Perhaps poor word choice, but Darren very obviously likes the BTS team,

Well yeah, he sleeps with Mia Swirren, the BTS person, we already know that.

I just think a lot of people don't realize how little planning goes into some of this stuff.

Is it really just that easy that Mia just rolls over in bed in the morning and says "Hey Darren , you wanna do the BTS videos for this week?" Wild guess but I would think there's slightly more planning than that.

It's not to say other actors aren't willing or able.

That is sort of precisely the point. Some are not used when it's obvious they are available and cooperative from their past track record. Chris a leading character since Season 1, the only Golden Globe winner and 2 Emmy nominee among the younger cast , absent from all this footage as just some accidental happenstance is a bit hard to fathom. Now to say MIa shows favoritism for certain actors (particulary it seems Darren, Lea and Chord) for this stuff, well, it is what it is based on the on screen evidence.

Granted this year will go by in a blink so I don't expect to see any changes for the small window Glee actually airs. Seriously doubt there is any Chris footage/video nor will there be any after the break.

But , hey, with champagne and in the spirit of goodwill and peace; everyone have a good one!

Edited December 25, 2014 by caracas1914

[KatWay]

 

Is it really just that easy that Mia just rolls over in bed in the morning and says "Hey Darren , you wanna do the BTS videos for this week?" Wild guess but I would think there's slightly more planning than that.

I actually don't think more planning goes into that. I thought it was already apparent last season that they didn't even re-record the bits anymore. They probably have like zero budget at this point.

 

I agree with carmussie that Chris seemed kind of over it in S5. Much as I don't give a crap about the Klaine relationship I still thought it was kind of obvious that Chris didn't even try to sell it anymore, as it was more or less his only storyline except for a couple of moments. Which is fine. I get that he's over it. I have nothing against Chris Colfer, I think he's certainly talented and I hope he has a great career after Glee, but that's something I noticed and I guess others did too (it was a subject of discussion on TWOP). He's far from the only actor on Glee who's dialled it down a notch.

 

Let me clarify that this is a subjective perception and is not intended as a direct insult to Chris' general acting capability, future career, professional attitude or whatever else it could be misconstrued as. I agree with those who say that the people behind the scenes are also barely doing more than the minimum at this point. See also, the lazy costumes, the boring setting and cinematography, the lazy song choices and recordings, the godawful writing, which has reached a new low since a while back. I think they're all over it. The only people I still see involved are Lea, who is more the face of Glee than anyone else, so she kind of has to put on a brave face to the end, and Darren who just likes the camera stuff and who also is still trying to wring out everything he can out of the production. Chris has his projects lined up and whatever the hell he does on Glee this season probably won't affect his career path one bit, so why wouldn't he be "eh".

 

Of course that's all speculation until someone publishes the big tell-it-all book on Glee's behind the scenes, but I can definitely see why people would get the impression.

 

So maybe we can just stop casting certain members of the cast/production as the devil incarnated and just realise that the show is done for and nobody is lifting a finger more than they absolitely have to (and I'm sure that includes Mia). And why would they, this is going to be a trainwreck and everyone knows it.

 

Merry Christmas everyone!

[fakeempress]

Happy holidays!

 

Like it was said many times, Chris wasn't checked out for ODNT at all, but we still got Darren in the bts for the episode he was little involved with, using the time to humble-brag about himself. The bts's around the S5 NY episodes especially had Darren all the time. It's also hard for me to imagine FSO making as little effort as possible in their job (there are other struggling Fox shows, are they slacking there as well?), and that it translates directly into Chris not being asked to do promo. This reminds me of the Daleastreet debate where some also saw it as just friends on set happening to create a hashtag for themselves. Yet the people in this hashtag are there in the promos and not only for Glee, and people like Chris and Kevin aren't.

 

About the association between Chris's acting and him being checked out last season. Not to derail the thread, but seemed to me people were expecting Chris to act as old Kurt in the Klaine relationship when the character isn't in that place any more. I think he acted Kurt as after a painful break-up and reconciliation, where he has residual trust issues and a bit of a resistance to adjust to a couple's life (we know Kurt was wondering if they were too young for engagement and marriage, and that was also the case in the Finchel engagement) , things that were actually written in the NY episodes (so it's not just his personal interpretation at play here). Is this what makes people say he acts his personal opinion of the Klaine relationship or that he didn't centre his episode on Klaine? Both he and Darren are on record having problems with how the relationship and their characters in it are written. I wouldn't say Chris not promoting the writers' choices and not being enthusiastic about them, and seeing his character as more than his relationship, means he's checked out. He's also said it's more interesting for him as an actor when there is some conflict, which happens to be the case with S5 NY episodes. 

 

And as was said, Matt Morrison is the one who everyone knows wanted out and is also busy working on other projects, yet FSO randomly decided to make the "extra effort" for him?  

Edited December 25, 2014 by fakeempress

[truthaboutluv]

Not to derail the thread, but will just mention that it seemed to me people were expecting Chris to act as old Kurt in the Klaine relationship when the character isn't in that space any more. I think he acted his character as after a painful break-up and reconciliation, when there are residual trust etc. issues, which were actually written in the NY episodes. Is this what makes people say he acts his personal opinion of the Klaine relationship or that he didn't centre his episode on Klaine?

 

 

I can't speak for anyone else but it seems there's a big misconception whenever anyone speaks about Chris being checked out, that it's because the viewer wanted him gushing about Klaine or making moony eyes on screen at Blaine and so that's where the criticism comes from. As a person who has stated that I too thought he seemed over it, I can say wholeheartedly that was not it. Again this is highly subjective and not a judgement on Chris' acting abilities in general as I wouldn't dare - but the reason I personally found him checked out is that I honestly thought he seemed bored in MOST of his scenes and I totally felt like almost all his scenes seemed phoned it and like he was doing the bare minimum. 

 

I felt it in scenes with Elliot which is why I was highly amused at all the so called heat and chemistry some claimed they saw between them. I thought Elliot a few times looked flirty but I think that was largely on Adam Lambert and his natural personality. The Bash episode was one of the worse for me. My favorite scenes throughout the series had been Kurt and Burt and I got nothing from that hospital scene. Mike O'Malley was trying but Chris came across like he was just reciting lines off a card. Even the fight with Rachel in that episode that led up to him walking home alone was just muted on his part. Lea was doing her part but again he just seemed to be reciting lines with no emotion behind it.

 

And then yes there was Kurt and Blaine. Again, if the writers were going for Kurt looking like he downright loathed Blaine and barely wanted him near him, then he did his job well because that was largely what I got from Kurt in most of the Kurt and Blaine scenes. Blaine was weepy and whiny and clingy and Kurt was cold and detached. That is honestly how I read most of their scenes. About the only scene where I didn't feel like if he could Kurt would just shove Blaine off a building, was the one when he asked him about working with the June woman and Blaine lied about it because he didn't want to tell him June hated him. Also, he actually seemed to have a semblance of emotion when he got pissed off at Blaine for lying about June and I will give that he actually seemed genuinely happy when Blaine proposed even though he should have said no but that's neither here nor there.

 

Also, he was good in The Quarterback episode, obviously. But for the most part, I really felt like Chris Colfer was mostly sleep walking through the last season and looking more than ready to put Glee behind him. And as a person who has ranted about the shit quality of this show and particularly its writing, I don't entirely fault him for it and he's certainly not the only actor to do this. I've seen many actors on shows that used to be great who after 5-6 or more seasons and the writing quality has seriously deteriorated just kind of more or less check out. 

Edited December 25, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[fakeempress]

 

Mike O'Malley was trying but Chris came across like he was just reciting lines off a card.

We clearly have our own understanding of how things should be acted. In this case, the character was beaten and in a hospital bed, how exactly should he speak his lines when he is supposed to have bruises and be on painkillers?

 

This is what I mean when I gave the example of Chris playing the character in the place he is, which also relates to his non-Klaine scenes.I'm not sure what you expect Chris to act as in the hospital bed? To weep? To rend his bandages? 

 

Also, what do you expect him to act as re Elliot if you mention how flirty Elliot was, when Kurt wasn't meant to be flirting with him? I really don't get the complaint here nor the reasoning. 

 

Finally, you see him playing Kurt as cold and detached when Blaine was weepy. I wouldn't go so far re Kurt,  since I think Chris played him accordingly to what the character felt. Kurt wasn't having the time of his life (although nominally he was expected to) - from his point of view. He felt crowded, annoyed with Blaine's clinginess, immediately suspicious about Blaine cheating on him (as any who recently was cheated on will), jumpy, etc. And he played him as more subdued in general, which I also don't find unjustified.

 

I guess it boils down to how people think a person will act in the place and situations Kurt was. When I identify with the character's point of view, I don't see a problem with Chris's choices. Maybe if I don't consider Kurt's POV, I will have the same problems as you. 

Edited December 25, 2014 by fakeempress

[caracas1914]

Yet it goes back ( as far as this thread) to whether his acting choices dictate if he gets any BTS promo/material/interviews because he's somehow choosing with his acting NOT be be involved and the BTS are picking up on his not wanting to participate.

I have no issues with subjective disagreements on Chris acting ( in New New York I thought per the context his acting was pitch perfect whereas Darren horribly overacted, Blaine seemed a deranged killer with his " I love him so back off") .

It seems the onus is being put on Chris for not being used; this year it's glaringly obvious he is excluded completely from all the promo stuff. Considering that along with Lea, he's the only young character lead since the pilot ( Amber, Naya, Jenna and Kevin arguably have all been demoted as far as screentime and appearances, they all so far are missing from multiple episodes, hell Naya will only appear in 4 out of 13) still featured prominently on the show, his absence IMO can't be attributed that they decide on the fly make up the promo of whoever is waving on the set "pick me!" they want to be used.

Even in Season 4 he was used when his onscreen precense was severely limited. The show has made a big issue that this year it's going back to the original characters, and whether one likes Chris or Kurt or not, or whether one likes Chris acting choices or not, he is by any standards as iconic and well known a character on the show as anyone else.

This oversight seems delliberate; it's too obvious to be mere happenstance with such a major character the last year of the show.

Edited December 25, 2014 by caracas1914

[truthaboutluv]

Yet it goes back ( as far as this thread) to whether his acting choices dictate if he gets any BTS

 

 

Just to be clear, my comment had NOTHING to do with the BTS stuff because honestly, I don't watch and never have watched the BTS stuff and really don't care about any of the drama related to it. 

 

We clearly have our own understanding of how things should be acted. In this case, the character was beaten and in a hospital bed, how exactly should he speak his lines when he is supposed to have bruises and be on painkillers?

 

 

Yes I'm well aware that he would likely be groggy from the painkillers, weak from the pain and beating, etc. However, and this is just my opinion, I didn't get weak and beaten, I got bored and mechanical. That's just how it came across to me. 

 

Also, what do you expect him to act as re Elliot if you mention how flirty Elliot was, when Kurt wasn't meant to be flirting with him? I really don't get the complaint here nor the reasoning.

 

 

No, I didn't expect Kurt to be flirty with Elliot (I guess other than their whole kiss on the cheek selfie thing).  I was commenting on those who swore there were some amazing sparks and heat between them because in my opinion, I didn't see that not just because Kurt was never really flirting with Elliot as I would expect but because again, Chris seemed disinterested through most of their interactions.

 

Like I didn't even buy this "best friend I've had since I moved here" line he said to Blaine because I never bought this close friendship with him and Elliot because in most of their scenes Kurt just seemed sort of checked out. Again I'm not saying Chris was horrible or awful in any of his scenes. Just, exactly what I noted above, that after awhile it felt like he was doing the minimum to get by because it seemed (again just my interpretation so surely subjective) like he'd checked out. That is all...

Edited December 25, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[fakeempress]

Just to be clear, my comment had NOTHING to do with the BTS stuff because honestly, I don't watch and never have watched the BTS stuff and really don't care about any of the drama related to it. 

But this is what's being discussed here for a while? Maybe we move further acting comments to the respective thread if you don't relate to the BTS discussion at all.

Edited December 25, 2014 by fakeempress

[truthaboutluv]

That is why I specifically quoted what I was responding to and made sure I stated that was what I was responding to. No part of my comment referenced the BTS stuff. But yes, the comment may be better suited for that thread, so I'll gladly drop the discussion entirely.

Edited December 25, 2014 by truthaboutluv

[fakeempress]

I will take my comment to the acting thread.

[camussie]

All of course with absolutely no agenda.

 

 

Well no agenda beyond wanting to put in as little effort as possible but no I don't think there is a pro-Darren anti-Chris agenda.  As far as Darren i think he is a generally a mediocre actor but I also don't think he has started checking out, probably because his prospects beyond Glee aren't looking all that great.   Still as I have made clear time and again Mia shouldn't assume that checking out on screen  equates to an unwillingness off-screen to do the promo work and because it seems she is, she is the one in the wrong here.

Edited December 25, 2014 by camussie

[SevenStars]

Well no agenda beyond wanting to put in as little effort as possible but no I don't think there is a pro-Darren anti-Chris agenda.  As far as Darren i think he is a generally a mediocre actor but I also don't think he has started checking out, probably because his prospects beyond Glee aren't looking all that great.   Still as I have made clear time and again Mia shouldn't assume that checking out on screen  equates to an unwillingness off-screen to do the promo work and because it seems she is, she is the one in the wrong here.

I find it hard to believe that Mia equal checking out on screen to no willingness to do promo. That would mean Mia was not only unprofessional but also stupid. Because I would assume that she was smart enough to know that Chris being under-contract, and one of the main lead on the show and someone who was there from the start  equal to doing promo, check out or not. Being under contract means that an actor have no real say in whether they do a promo or not, therefore, Mia holds the power, not Chris.  So at anytime she could have schedule a time and place for him to meet her, so he can be included. Give him a scripted statement about Glee, if he can't think of a good thing about Glee right, and have him say that. Use good editing to make it seems like he is totally excited about Glee coming back and sad about Glee ending. 

 

If what you saying is true, Mia needs to be fire without question.

Edited December 25, 2014 by SevenStars

[camussie]

I have said it is both wrong and incompetent so no argument there.  I also should clarify that it is probably less of a conscious decision than I have laid out but that doesn't make it any less wrong and incompetent.  I should also say that, while I understand that show business is  different type of business, I still think most of the workplace politics and personalities are similar to what many of us experience in other professional environments.  That means, just like in other professional environments, some stuck on projects that are obviously train-wrecks will start to do the minimum (I am talking about the Glee production team here) which leads to all sorts of stupid decisions and assumptions that only make the train-wreck all that much worse.  

 

Having been on a couple of those projects in my time I can say I have experienced first hand that sort inertia that turns a train-wreck to an even worse mess.  The dynamics of it all are to me equal measures fascinating and horrifying.  That is why I hope any Glee tell-all really starts with summer before season 3 media mess and goes from there.  

Edited December 25, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

Well no agenda beyond wanting to put in as little effort as possible but no I don't think there is a pro-Darren anti-Chris agenda.  As far as Darren i think he is a generally a mediocre actor but I also don't think he has started checking out, probably because his prospects beyond Glee aren't looking all that great.   Still as I have made clear time and again Mia shouldn't assume that checking out on screen  equates to an unwillingness off-screen to do the promo work and because it seems she is, she is the one in the wrong here.

I think a pro-Darren agenda is clear on the part of FSO (basically Mia as producer). I don't think his overexposure in the FSO content just happens because he just enjoys being on camera and "hasn't checked out". It's a conscious push, which was stepped up last season, how - it's been discussed. As to Mia paying attention to who's checked out so that she can make the minimum effort - I really don't see the logic. First, she works on other shows and Fox has a lot of under-performing and failing shows atm, not only Glee. If she makes a minimum effort for all of them, I don't see how she's keeping her job. Second, she certainly makes a lot of effort to push Darren and Chord. Third, testing the checked-out theory - Matt Morrison is the one we have reasons to believe over the show, and he's had several outside projects including preparing for his return to Broadway, Will was practically non-existent save for few episodes last season, yet somehow Mia doesn't make the same conclusion about Matt as she does for Chris, even if she doesn't have to watch the show (this saving herself even more effort) to know Matt is done, it's common knowledge.

 

Unless you can compare Mia's work on Glee to her work for other Fox shows, there is no way of saying she's making minimum effort on Glee. She got Darren plus a couple others on non-Glee related content so far this season, that alone doesn't seem minimum effort to me. 

Edited December 26, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

Given that Glee is by far the deadest man walking on Fox (really they only got 13 episodes this year because of a stupid deal Reilly made with RM way back in 2013) I think it is a safe assumption that many on of Glee's production team is not giving it their all. To me that is evident from the bad writing, to the lazy song producing, to those awful extensions.  I have no reason to believe the BTS people wouldn't be of the same mindset.  Is it professional?  Absolutely not but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

 

I think a pro-Darren agenda is clear on the part of FSO (basically Mia as producer). I don't think his overexposure in the FSO content just happens because he just enjoys being on camera and "hasn't checked out". It's a conscious push, which was stepped up last season, how - it's been discussed.

 

 

That too is subjective because I have watched all of the BTS stuff and I never noticed Darren being over-exposed given that Blaine has been written as one of the leads on this show since mid season 4.  Now should Blaine be a lead?  Goodness no but much to my dismay and the show's misfortune he is.  From spoilers we have so far it seems Blaine and Rachel are the only leads this season - something that it appears will be made quite apparent with the first episode setting up their journeys.  Given that I have been expecting Lea and Darren to be the most featured in the BTS stuff this season and so far they have been.

 

And let me repeat again I think Chris should be on the BTS stuff more and I think Mia is being incompetent at her job by not including him and to a lesser degree Kevin.  I just don't think it is part of some big pro-Darren/anti-Chris agenda.  

Edited December 26, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

 

I think it is a safe assumption that many on of Glee's production team is not giving it their all. To me that is evident from the bad writing, to the lazy song producing, to those awful extensions.

Recent tweets of a couple of directors and some crew have been full of pride with their work (whether we may or may not think justified) and at times nearly tearful. I don't think these people see the last 13 episodes of the show as just something to do and be done. RIB possibly, but for a lot of crew and the other writers, It's been their bread and butter, and also community for 6-7 years now, and some may not get their next job right away..

 

How is bad writing, lazy song production different than previous seasons? You also seem fixated on these extensions when they have been gellmetting Blaine's hair since S3, and spoiler shots of Mercedes from later S6 episodes show her with a great hairdo.  

 

I really don't see how a pro-Darren agenda isn't evident, so everything is on the up and up, and it's just Chris being checked out that's preventing him from consideration by FSO because darn that Mia, happens to have the same opinion as you about Chris' acting (big assumption here on your part). If Chris were indeed checked out, this information is more likely to come to her through her boyfriend, and not from her spending hours watching Glee. I think it's safe to say Darren is the most used Glee cast member recently for any Glee and non-Glee content. His stans are ecstatic over that, let me tell you. If they notice, I think I'm not mistaken. Also, it's Lea and Matt who are the leads. Lead is a bit of a misnomer for Chris and Darren although I use it as well; they are regulars though.  

Edited December 26, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

Those extensions were really the thing that stood out the most, to me, from that BTS clip.  The reason they stood out?  Because I have always thought Glee did a good job with extensions compared to so many other shows (bad hair extensions are something that stand out to me).  As for the production people tweeting about pride in their work I wouldn't expect any of them to say we are counting down the days but I think almost everything we have seen so far from the Glee team this year comes across as bush league.  

 

Also, it's Lea and Matt who are the actual leads.

 

 

Matt/Will has been a lead in name only for several years now.  In what we have seen on the actual show I feel Darren/Blaine has been a lead since about mid season 4 and my impression from what we know about this season Rachel and Blaine really will be the true leads of this show no matter what they say about Will.  

 

I really don't see how a pro-Darren agenda isn't evident

 

 

Well it isn't to me and it seems at least some people on this thread  agree with me so apparently it isn't as evident as you think it is.  As far as my assumption about Mia noticing Chris has checked out on screen I agree it is one but then again it is also an assumption on your part that Mia has some sort of anti Chris agenda (that I guess people think is fueled by her seeing him as competition for Darren).  Really none of us know what the deal is for sure other than that we all seem to agree that Chris (and Kevin) should be in more of this BTS promotion this season and the fact that they aren't means she is not doing her job well.  

 

I also wanted to address this

 

Second, she certainly makes a lot of effort to push Darren and Chord.

 

 

Seeing as how the show runner was the one to start the whole DaLeaStreet push last spring and we have seen it sporadically pop up this year why wouldn't the BTS people use that as a major input for guidance?  The problem is they should also use other inputs like Chris' PCA nomination and Kevin's knack for this kind of thing.    

Edited December 26, 2014 by camussie

[Sara2009]

I honestly don't think any of them absolutely hate their jobs. Even Matt Morrison has said that he'll genuinely miss the cast and crew.

[camussie]

No one said they hated their jobs or especially the people they work with.  That said Glee is a dead show walking and even the most positive person has to know they only reason they got 13 episodes this season after a 0.6 demo in the season ender is because of a bad deal (for Fox) Kevin Reilly made two years ago.  I am sure they all noticed they got the Friday death spot.  Working in that kind of environment can't be easy so while I am sure many are grateful for what Glee has given them, many or even most are ready to finish this thing up, especially those who have other things to move onto.  A mindset like that is normal for any business going under so while show business is unique in some aspects it isn't so unique that the people involved wouldn't be experiencing many of these same things.  

Edited December 26, 2014 by camussie

[Myrna123]

I think it was clear at the end of last season that for whatever reason the creative thrust of the remainder of the show would concentrate on Rachel, Blaine and Sam, and I think that decision was made by some combination of RIB and I think the BTS focus is an offshoot of that decision. Why on earth they made that decision I can't fathom. My own feeling is that Lea, Darren and (after his rehiring) Chord never heard an RIB idea that wasn't the most amazing, revolutionary, amazingly amazing flash of brilliance ever in the history of human existence. Why not focus on the actors who have the good sense to recognize your genius?

[fakeempress]

Those extensions were really the thing that stood out the most, to me, from that BTS clip.  The reason they stood out?  Because I have always thought Glee did a good job with extensions compared to so many other shows (bad hair extensions are something that stand out to me).  As for the production people tweeting about pride in their work I wouldn't expect any of them to say we are counting down the days but I think almost everything we have seen so far from the Glee team this year comes across as bush league.  

 

 

Matt/Will has been a lead in name only for several years now.  In what we have seen on the actual show I feel Darren/Blaine has been a lead since about mid season 4 and my impression from what we know about this season Rachel and Blaine really will be the true leads of this show no matter what they say about Will.  

 

 

Well it isn't to me and it seems at least some people on this thread  agree with me so apparently it isn't as evident as you think it is.  As far as my assumption about Mia noticing Chris has checked out on screen I agree it is one but then again it is also an assumption on your part that Mia has some sort of anti Chris agenda.  Really none of us know what the deal is for sure other than that we all seem to agree that Chris (and Kevin) should be in more of this BTS promotion this season and the fact that they aren't means she is not doing her job well.  

Mostly, I've argued against the line of reasoning you take about Chris being checked out as a reason for FSO, talked about how I don't see any reason to exclude him that comes from him so it becomes suspicious, and that something has to give if FSO increases Darren's share in finite content, and that Chris's absence is becoming very conspicuous. You'll note that in the last post I only commented on your questioning there is a pro-Darren agenda, not on questioning an anti-Chris agenda. I can suspect but I can't be sure.

 

Us not knowing is true.

 

I think it's been said that Matt/Lea being the leads is in their contract. They are also the ones submitted by Fox for lead actor in the Emmys and GGs. The screentime and SLs don't affect this, it affects our perception hence taking Chris, Darren, etc. as leads as well. But for the production, it's Lea and Matt.

 

Re extensions - it could be anything, like hair haven't yet gotten to Amber to fix them. I had the same reaction to Lea's ombre in previous seasons, for instance.

Edited December 26, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

I would say the perception of most of the audience at this point is that Rachel and Blaine are the leads because most go by what is on screen and what is on screen is that Rachel is a lead and since about mid season 4 Blaine is a lead too.  

 

I think it was clear at the end of last season that for whatever reason the creative thrust of the remainder of the show would concentrate on Rachel, Blaine and Sam, and I think that decision was made by some combination of RIB and I think the BTS focus is an offshoot of that decision.

 

 

i think this is a factor too although it seems the show backed away a little from Sam being a lead, at least in the first few episodes, which means chord isn't as present in the BTS as Lea and Darren but still more present than some others.  I agree it makes little sense but that is what RM in his "genius" decided to go with.  Combine that with many of the production people not giving it their all and you have people noticeably excluded from the promotion that shouldn't be.  

Edited December 26, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

I honestly don't think any of them absolutely hate their jobs. Even Matt Morrison has said that he'll genuinely miss the cast and crew.

I agree, and this is indication straight from the horse's mouth. my impression is that Matt doesn't mince words. I think the assumption that cast and crew for the most part can't wait to be done, and will courtesy-tweet otherwise, is a bit cynical. Chris for instance, is rather direct in his interviews, and he's said how he still sees it as his current job as in previous seasons, and the reality of the series ending will hit him as they end production. 

 

 

I think it was clear at the end of last season that for whatever reason the creative thrust of the remainder of the show would concentrate on Rachel, Blaine and Sam, and I think that decision was made by some combination of RIB and I think the BTS focus is an offshoot of that decision.

This makes more sense for the context we know, than Mia detecting Chris' checking out and making the least effort. That's why I brought up Daleastreet in a previous post. I think Lea and Chord are on a par, Darren being most used of all so far (I include the non-Glee stuff I could find as well). 

Edited December 26, 2014 by fakeempress

[camussie]

And i think it is naive to assume that the working environment at Glee hasn't been negatively affected by the mess Glee has evolved to.  It also isn't an either/or.  I am sure they all still enjoy spending time with each other and are proud of the impact Glee once made but that doesn't exclude them looking beyond Glee which in turn can and probably is affecting the product they are putting out.  Sure the writing has been really bad for a while now but until recently I thought they production values of Glee were pretty good.  That is no longer my opinion.  For example, I think all of the promotion we have seen so far, not just the stuff Mia is in charge of, has looked cheap and thrown together.  

 

And let me repeat no one said that anyone HATES at Glee their jobs.  

Edited December 26, 2014 by camussie

[fakeempress]

And i think it is naive to assume that the working environment at Glee hasn't been negatively affected by the mess Glee has evolved to.  It also isn't an either/or.  I am sure they all still enjoy spending time with each other and are proud of the impact Glee once made but that doesn't exclude them looking beyond Glee which in turn can and probably is affecting the product they are putting out.  Sure the writing has been really bad for a while now but until recently I thought they production values of Glee were pretty good.  That is no longer my opinion.  For example, I think all of the promotion we have seen so far, not just the stuff Mia is in charge of, has looked cheap and thrown together.  

 

And let me repeat no one said that anyone HATES at Glee their jobs.  

I actually agree with the bolded, and never argued about there not having been any conflicts, etc, but this is not an absolute. Chris has said as much, he likened it to family squabbles when they pressed him to talk about Naya last summer but he didn't deny it outright. The Lea-Naya-Brad mess alone - yet, Naya is back for the final season in an important SL, and it's rumoured it's her wish to have the episode commitment she was given (grain of salt of course). They could've not bothered with her after the big showdown last season.

 

The promo values - I don't notice as much of a difference. The bad photoshop jobs for previous cast photos are legendary, and the S5 NY poster without Kevin was such a fail, even he tweeted about it. I think the work has been at that level for quite a while, but ymmv.

Edited December 26, 2014 by fakeempress

[fakeempress]

Reposting from the song thread: the first clip in the final season promos and bts's, featuring Chris. So it took FSO 8 episodes worth of production time to find him available on set (since he's 

shot on location of the wedding scene in 608, wearing Kurt's wedding tux

)

http://www.etonline.com/media/video/glee_sneak_peek_take_on_me-155731/?viewFull=true

Edited December 31, 2014 by fakeempress

[jaytee1812]

I'm just watching the sneak peak on iTunes and Christ these people are either really good actors and incredibly professional, or they're are dumb enough to think this show is entertaining.

[jaytee1812]

Is it just me or is this total shade? My dog will be watching Glee while I'm skiing! It's Jenna's dog btw

http://instagram.com/p/xqFpSpGZRz/

[ComfySweater]

Jenna got dropped to guest star. She's been shading this thing subtly and not so subtly for awhile. 

 

Cute doggie. I approve.

[jaytee1812]

Jenna got dropped to guest star. She's been shading this thing subtly and not so subtly for awhile.

Cute doggie. I approve.

Really, I hadn't noticed. Shade must go over my head!!

Looks like more shade she was with one of the actors booted from the show!

[spiritof76]

 

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/new-fox-chiefs-reveal-reboot-761341

So this article doesn't mention Glee a lot, but I think it sheds some light on the struggles Fox has had, and where it is trying to go. And I think the fact that Glee is barely mentioned in such an in-depth article about Fox, is a testament to how far it has fallen. There was a brief moment when they thought they were going to be able to franchise this thing. 

[fakeempress]

So this article doesn't mention Glee a lot, but I think it sheds some light on the struggles Fox has had, and where it is trying to go. And I think the fact that Glee is barely mentioned in such an in-depth article about Fox, is a testament to how far it has fallen. There was a brief moment when they thought they were going to be able to franchise this thing. 

The revolving door system works on shows like The Voice, DWTS, etc. There, the routine progression is what makes the show, while on Glee the repeat of same stories with the same competition cycle without finding fresh angles, doesn't work. The audience will bail, as it did. And you need a strong core to provide continuity and also focus the rest around itself. The split worked against this, as did downgrading Will to a bit player. 6x01-02 show that it can be done but the core needs to stay put in one place, and you need to create new original characters, and opportunities for fresh stories like the rotation of choir directors, and do it well. But I doubt Glee would've been sustainable for much longer than what they got anyway.