Why is Jimmy/Saul/Gene laying low in Omaha? (BB spoilers)

[Straitshooter]

Don't answer too quickly. I get the feeling there are still things we don’t know. The big question is what exactly has Jimmy/Saul done that keeps him laying low, looking over his shoulder and staying clear of police as Cinnabon manager in Omaha?

In “Granite State,” the penultimate episode Breaking Bad, Saul high-tails it out of Albuquerque because the DEA was about to move in on Walter’s operation. He didn’t want to be around for that.

But consider this: in “Felina,” Walter White, Todd, Uncle Jack and Lydia all die. Gus Fring, Eladio, the Salamancas and Mike were already taken care of, too. There’s nobody left from the criminal side to take revenge. And as far as the DEA is concerned, the entire Heisenberg case is closed because there’s no one to prosecute. The only remaining player is Jesse, who did not go on the run (as far as we know). And Jesse may not even be worth prosecuting at this point because he was not involved in Hank’s murder. The fact that he was kidnapped and coerced into cooking complicates the case against him.

Even if the authorities know that Saul Goodman was Walter’s attorney, that does not necessarily make him party to his crimes (and he can invoke client-attorney privilege). So why, from the start of the series, is “Gene” doing his best to avoid attention? Is there something we don’t yet know?

[Bryce Lynch]

I think Saul would be in hiding mainly out of fear of law enforcement.  Jesse is the only one on the criminal side, left alive, I can think of who might want to kill him and that seems a bit unlikely.  Maybe Ira from Vamanos Pest would also want to silence him, if he was afraid the the Heisenberg drug ring would be tied back to his company. 

As far as the evidence against him is concerned, while a lot of it died with the various criminals and DEA agents who were killed, he would probably have to worry about the following:

1) Skyler could rat him out to get a better deal for herself.

2) Jesse could return or be caught and make a deal to testify against him, or just testify against him to get even for his role in Brock's poisoning.

3) I don't recall if Jesse's confession tape was destroyed by the Nazis, but if it survived, I'm sure Jesse said plenty about him in it.

4) When he fled, he may have left behind incriminating records in his law office (though Francesca was doing her best to shred them all, I believe).  

5) If the authorities knew what he did, but couldn't prove it in court, they might be able to cut deals with a few of his former clients to rat him out for some of the illegal things he pulled on their behalf while he practiced.  

6) Kuby and/or Huell (if he ever leaves the safe house) might testify against him.  

7) Ted Beneke might testify about the great Aunt Birgit inheritance scheme

8) If they looked closely at Ice Station Zebra Associates and any other shell companies he had, they might have found evidence of money laundering or other wrongdoing.  

9) Marie may have known about his involvement either by being around when Jesse was making parts of the tape or through Hank telling her.  

Edited June 14, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Hanahope]

I would think that "Gene" could use a pay phone (they still exist, but you do have to hunt for them) or a burner cell to call Francesca and find out what, if anything, is going on.  It will be interesting to see what happens when we return to Glen after his fainting.  I assume we will get more info on that, hopefully even some closure, since othewise why would the producers even make those "Glen" scenes.

[Bryce Lynch]

In a related question, is there any indication how much time has passed in Omaha in those flash forwards?  Is Walt still on the lam in NH?  Is this just after "Felina", months later, years later?  I want to say I saw a health inspection certificate in the Cinabon, in episode 101, but I will have to watch it to see if I am imagining it.  

[ShadowFacts]

I think there are plenty of things that we don't know that could be motivating Gene to stay very, very unobtrusive.  He left Albuquerque in a big panic and paid a lot of money to get a new identity.  He's still very twitchy so I'm guessing it's early on in his disappearance, but I don't really know.  He could possibly know about Walter's death, he may have seen the Charlie Rose interview with Gretchen and Eliot, if that already happened.  As to what he is afraid of, everything Bryce Lynch said, and then the possibilities of what he did with/for other clients are endless.  In BB we saw only Walter White's world and Saul was in it, we didn't see Saul's world and everybody else who was in it.  If any authorities were investigating/surveilling any of his other clients, and Saul suddenly disappears, there might be search warrants issued, or arrest warrants out that get wider distribution than New Mexico. 

[Bryce Lynch]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

In a related question, is there any indication how much time has passed in Omaha in those flash forwards?  Is Walt still on the lam in NH?  Is this just after "Felina", months later, years later?  I want to say I saw a health inspection certificate in the Cinabon, in episode 101, but I will have to watch it to see if I am imagining it.  

I watched the opening scene of 101 again and there is a Omaha "Certificate of Grade" shown in the Cinnabon, but it undated.

The odd thing is the City Seal on the certificate say "Incorporated 1857", but there is a banner across the bottom of it that reads "200 Years".  Could it be 2057 and Gene looks young for a man in his 90s? :)

Does anyone know if and when Omaha or Nebraska celebrated some sort of bicentennial?  Could it have been in 2012 which was the 200th anniversary of the founding of the Missouri Territory and Fort Lisa which became North Omaha?

Edited June 15, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[Captanne]

Isn't Kim from Nebraska originally?

[Bryce Lynch]

24 minutes ago, Captanne said:

Isn't Kim from Nebraska originally?

During her job interview she said she was from a small town in Kansas, near the Nebraska border.  BTW, in the Omaha scene in episode 301, Gene has a Kansas City Royals lunchbox.  In earlier episodes, Kim, who is from Kansas, wore a Kansas City Royals t-shirt.  I suspect there is some connection.  

[Captanne]

Ta!  I had a feeling there might be a connection.  Remains to be seen, though, huh.  (I'm sure there will be.)

[Bryce Lynch]

1 minute ago, Captanne said:

Ta!  I had a feeling there might be a connection.  Remains to be seen, though, huh.  (I'm sure there will be.)

Yeah, the BCS writers rarely put little details in without a reason.  I think it would be somewhat unusual for someone to mention the bordering state the grew up next to, as opposed to only their own state.  Put that together with the lunchbox and the fact that Gene lives in Nebraska and it makes it unlikely that it is a coincidence.   

[Atlanta]

I'm sure Gene watches the news closely. He probably has a Google news alert set for anything to do with ABQ, Walt, meth, etc.

[Quilt Fairy]

On ‎6‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 7:17 PM, ShadowFacts said:

As to what he is afraid of, everything Bryce Lynch said, and then the possibilities of what he did with/for other clients are endless.  In BB we saw only Walter White's world and Saul was in it, we didn't see Saul's world and everybody else who was in it.

Except we see his waiting room clients and it's pretty obvious he's mainly a shyster trying to help other people scam insurance companies as well as finding loopholes to get low-level drug dealers off.  He never even meets Gus Fring, so it's not like he's his consigliere  or anything.  Jesse has absolutely left ABQ, IMO.  The only person in the DEA's sights who could really connect him to Heisenberg is Skylar.

[ShadowFacts]

8 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Except we see his waiting room clients and it's pretty obvious he's mainly a shyster trying to help other people scam insurance companies as well as finding loopholes to get low-level drug dealers off.  He never even meets Gus Fring, so it's not like he's his consigliere  or anything.  Jesse has absolutely left ABQ, IMO.  The only person in the DEA's sights who could really connect him to Heisenberg is Skylar.

Weren't there a few months between when Saul left town and when Walter returns from New Hampshire for the final showdown?  As far as Saul knows the DEA could have made lots of connections and gotten solid evidence in that time period.  He must be plenty scared of something to be acting the way he is in Omaha.  In one of the early scenes he is eyeing a young guy with apprehension -- was he thinking bounty hunter, former client?  Poor Saul is definitely quaking in his boots, no more bodyguard, no more swagger. 

Edited June 16, 2017 by ShadowFacts

[Bryce Lynch]

9 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Except we see his waiting room clients and it's pretty obvious he's mainly a shyster trying to help other people scam insurance companies as well as finding loopholes to get low-level drug dealers off.  He never even meets Gus Fring, so it's not like he's his consigliere  or anything.  Jesse has absolutely left ABQ, IMO.  The only person in the DEA's sights who could really connect him to Heisenberg is Skylar.

Jesse might have left ABQ, but the DEA and police were looking for him and might well have found him.  Saul actually did meet Gus Fring, in this season of BCS when Fring got his watch out of the LPH trash.  

While he does seem to have a thriving insurance scam/low-level drug dealer defense practice, I got the impression he was into a lot of other higher level things.  He suggested arranging a chow line shanking of Badger, her arranged the Jimmy In and Out scheme, he knew how to reach the "Disappearer", he had several contacts willing to share their places of businesses with a meth lab, he arranged for Kuby to scam Bogdan and Kuby and Huell to strong arm Ted.  When Walt and Jesse abducted him he assumed it was the cartel, and yelled in  Spanish that he was always a friend of the cartel, so obviously he had some sort of interactions with them.  He was also prepared to launder Walt and Jesse's money, suggesting he was doing it for others as well. 

Huell, Kuby and Francesca each probably know enough to put him away for a long time. 

He was a full partner in the the post-Fring Heisenberg ring.  With basically everyone else dead, Saul would probably be the #1 target of the DEA and police, who would definitely want someone to pay for the murder of 2 DEA agents and 10 incarcerated witnesses.  Though Saul was not directly involved in those, he would be the closest thing they had left to make a scapegoat out of.  

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, ShadowFacts said:

Weren't there a few months between when Saul left town and when Walter returns from New Hampshire for the final showdown?  As far as Saul knows the DEA could have made lots of connections and gotten solid evidence in that time period.  He must be plenty scared of something to be acting the way he is in Omaha.  In one of the early scenes he is eyeing a young guy with apprehension -- was he thinking bounty hunter, former client?  Poor Saul is definitely quaking in his boots, no more bodyguard, no more swagger. 

Yes, Gene is clearly afraid of law enforcement.  In the season 2 flash forward he was afraid to use the emergency exit because the police would come.  Given that he was obviously the manager of the Cinnabon, it would be almost inconceivable that the police would give him any trouble, much less that he would be recognized, but he is still terrified of any contact with law enforcement.  We see him again very nervous around the cop in the mall in season 3.  -

[LoneHaranguer]

On 6/14/2017 at 3:55 PM, Straitshooter said:

There’s nobody left from the criminal side to take revenge.

All of Mike's men in prison would have had buddies or SO's on the outside taking care of their payoff money. After the payoffs stopped and the murders went down, any of them might have figured that Saul was responsible and absconded with "their" money. At the least, he'd be somebody they'd want to talk to.

[303420]

On 6/14/2017 at 1:55 PM, Straitshooter said:

Even if the authorities know that Saul Goodman was Walter’s attorney, that does not necessarily make him party to his crimes (and he can invoke client-attorney privilege).

Privilege doesn't apply if the lawyer is a coconspirator. Saul was not Walt's criminal defense attorney, he was Walt's attorney in business matters - matters that we always knew and the authorities eventually found out were highly illegal. That puts him squarely in the prosecution zone.

[Bryce Lynch]

2 hours ago, LoneHaranguer said:

All of Mike's men in prison would have had buddies or SO's on the outside taking care of their payoff money. After the payoffs stopped and the murders went down, any of them might have figured that Saul was responsible and absconded with "their" money. At the least, he'd be somebody they'd want to talk to.

I think most of them had wives getting the payoff money, as opposed to the type of buddies that would try to harm Saul.  Also, the families would  know that Dan Wachsberger, the lawyer who was handling the Hazard Pay had been arrested and murdered in prison, and understand that was the reason the money stopped.  Which also brings up the point that Saul had nothing to do with the payouts or the Fring drug ring, it was Waschsberger. 

[JudyObscure]

5 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Jesse might have left ABQ, but the DEA and police were looking for him and might well have found him.

Please no.  My only shred of happiness at the end of BB was the thought of Jesse in some place like Wisconsin, building furniture in a nice quiet shop, with paintings of Jade and Andrea on the wall.

[ByTor]

On 6/16/2017 at 10:13 AM, Bryce Lynch said:

Saul actually did meet Gus Fring, in this season of BCS when Fring got his watch out of the LPH trash.  

They "met" in the broadest sense of the word, all Gus did was hand Jimmy a watch; neither one introduced himself to the other.  Years later in the BB universe I doubt Gus would even remember him.

[Ailianna]

On the other hand, given that Gus was working on nailing down Mike at the time, he may remember the face as someone associated with Mike.  Gus is too smart to underestimate what he will or won't remember.

[Ohwell]

I feel pretty certain that Gus would remember him.

[benteen]

On ‎6‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 1:31 PM, 303420 said:

Privilege doesn't apply if the lawyer is a coconspirator. Saul was not Walt's criminal defense attorney, he was Walt's attorney in business matters - matters that we always knew and the authorities eventually found out were highly illegal. That puts him squarely in the prosecution zone.

Agreed.  Saul was a coconspirator with Walt on a lot of things, like the train robbery that got Drew Sharpe killed.  As one of the very last men standing from Walt's empire, he'd definitely be on the hit list for a very embarrassed law enforcement.

[TVFan17]

13 hours ago, Ohwell said:

I feel pretty certain that Gus would remember him.

100% agree.   Gus would absolutely remember him, even years later.   We're not talking about an average Joe with a fuzzy memory.  Gus is cut from a different cloth, and is probably much more detail-oriented and observant than most people.  He probably commits everyone's faces to memory as soon as he meets them.

And also, I thought that we were to assume  that Gus was already on to Jimmy before he approached him at the trash bin.  At least I thought that the implication was that Gus was already aware that Jimmy was spying/looking for suspicious activity on behalf of Mike.  Gus would definitely remember someone who was spying, even if he is harmless to him and connected to Mike.  It probably has nothing to do with Gene's Cinnabon/Nebraska situation, but I just wanted to post to agree with you!

[Bryce Lynch]

On 6/19/2017 at 3:35 AM, TVFan17 said:

100% agree.   Gus would absolutely remember him, even years later.   We're not talking about an average Joe with a fuzzy memory.  Gus is cut from a different cloth, and is probably much more detail-oriented and observant than most people.  He probably commits everyone's faces to memory as soon as he meets them.

And also, I thought that we were to assume  that Gus was already on to Jimmy before he approached him at the trash bin.  At least I thought that the implication was that Gus was already aware that Jimmy was spying/looking for suspicious activity on behalf of Mike.  Gus would definitely remember someone who was spying, even if he is harmless to him and connected to Mike.  It probably has nothing to do with Gene's Cinnabon/Nebraska situation, but I just wanted to post to agree with you!

Whether or not Gus would remember him really isn't relevant to "Gene" because Gus is long dead.  

But, Gus definitely knew of Saul and knew that he worked with Mike.   In "Green Light" after Mike tells Gus about the Cousins drawing a scythe outside of Walt's house, he asks Mike, "Does the lawyer know?" and Mike says, "Should he?", Gus replies, "No.".

Saul didn't appear to have any direct involvement in the Fring meth ring.  The closest things to it were referring Walt to Mike who referred him to Fring and laundering money for Walt and Jesse when they worked for Fring.  

[TVFan17]

1 hour ago, Bryce Lynch said:

Whether or not Gus would remember him really isn't relevant to "Gene" because Gus is long dead.  

But, Gus definitely knew of Saul and knew that he worked with Mike.   In "Green Light" after Mike tells Gus about the Cousins drawing a scythe outside of Walt's house, he asks Mike, "Does the lawyer know?" and Mike says, "Should he?", Gus replies, "No.".

Saul didn't appear to have any direct involvement in the Fring meth ring.  The closest things to it were referring Walt to Mike who referred him to Fring and laundering money for Walt and Jesse when they worked for Fring.  

In my very last sentence above, I said "It probably has nothing to do with Gene's Cinnabon/Nebraska situation, but I just wanted to post to agree with you!"   So, yes, I was and am aware that Gus and his memory are not relevant to Gene's life.  I only posted to agree with Ohwell's comment, because it was suggested above that Gus might not remember Jimmy years later.     (In my mind, in any and all potential scenarios that could have been written and played out on BB and in the post-BB timeline -- like, for example, a scenario in which Gus might have still been alive while Saul fled New Mexico and became Gene at Cinnabon -- Gus would have remembered Jimmy/Saul in all of them, even many years later.)

I remember Gus talking to Mike about "the lawyer."  That scene made it pretty clear that Saul and Gus were not interacting much at all, if ever.  If Gus had outlasted Mike, I wonder if he and Saul/Gene would have ever had any contact for any reason.

[Ellaria]

On 6/14/2017 at 3:55 PM, Straitshooter said:

Don't answer too quickly. I get the feeling there are still things we don’t know. The big question is what exactly has Jimmy/Saul done that keeps him laying low, looking over his shoulder and staying clear of police as Cinnabon manager in Omaha?...

...But consider this: in “Felina,” Walter White, Todd, Uncle Jack and Lydia all die. Gus Fring, Eladio, the Salamancas and Mike were already taken care of, too. There’s nobody left from the criminal side to take revenge. And as far as the DEA is concerned, the entire Heisenberg case is closed because there’s no one to prosecute. The only remaining player is Jesse, who did not go on the run (as far as we know). And Jesse may not even be worth prosecuting at this point because he was not involved in Hank’s murder. The fact that he was kidnapped and coerced into cooking complicates the case against him.

Yes, most of the players are dead. Skyler and Jesse are the only main characters that could potentially cause trouble for Saul/Gene. Sure, the DEA could make him a scapegoat. Or the DEA could have moved on. 

We don't know what Gene knows and doesn't know about the fall of Walter's operation. And, as a viewer, I'm not sure that it matters right now. I think that we are supposed to experience the same sense of paranoia that Gene feels. He can't possibly know with any certainty that he is free and clear. I can't imagine that he wouldn't be constantly looking over his shoulder. I also think that Gene may be dealing with a lot of emotions - guilt, regret, sense of loss - that he has suppressed over the years. It may be much more than fear of law enforcement or retaliation from drug lords. All told, it would make for a unpleasant existence.

I think that Gene's story will have a definitive end once BCS is finished. I don't imagine that he will be left managing that Cinnabon. I just can't even guess what his end will be.

Edited August 18, 2018 by Ellaria Sand

[wendyg]

16 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Yes, most of the players are dead. Skyler and Jesse are the only main characters that could potentially cause trouble for Saul/Gene. Sure, the DEA could make him a scapegoat. Or the DEA could have moved on. 

You're forgetting Francesca. Now that we know she was working for Saul when he was Jimmy McGill, we know that she knows a *lot* about him, more than anyone else alive now. She is not dead, and it strikes me that if there were a lever to flush Gene out of Omaha and back to ABQ she would be it. She was not always happy about what Saul asked her to do - eg, making the call to Hank -  but it seemed to be Walt she blamed most. Huell is also still alive, and while he wouldn't know *much*, he'd know that Saul involved him in the Brock poisoning scheme, and he doubtless has memories of various of Saul's conversations, too.

We can be sure the police and DEA know about Saul's involvement - Skyler will have told them. There's nothing illegal about defending criminals, but they can get Saul on money laundering, conspiracy, probably obstruction of justice. We don't know anything about Saul's *other* practice, which had his waiting room filled at all times with anxious Latinos; was he helping them stay in the country illegally, helping them become legal and documented, or their lawyer of choice for petty crimes? Most likely a mix of all three...so although probably none of those clients are eager to help the police, it's easy to imagine deals being made.

It's also interesting to wonder where Howard and others who knew Jimmy in the BCS timeline are in the BB timeline (other than "not created yet"). There has to have been some pretty impressive reason why in a town the size of Albuquerque no one from the legal community reacts publicly to seeing all those pictures of Jimmy McGill on those benches and billboards advertising Saul Goodman's legal services. But whatever it is, that should be over now. It's entirely reasonable for Jimmy/Saul/Gene to think that all of Albuquerque is buzzing about him.

[ShadowFacts]

The DEA and federal prosecutors could be very keen on nailing him, two fine agents were murdered.  What happened to Jesse's recorded confession?  I think the neo-Nazis had it, was it left in the ruins of the lab that Walter shot up before he died?  I don't remember.  Anyway, the authorities would be looking for any associate of Walt's. 

[Bannon]

On 8/19/2018 at 5:52 AM, ShadowFacts said:

The DEA and federal prosecutors could be very keen on nailing him, two fine agents were murdered.  What happened to Jesse's recorded confession?  I think the neo-Nazis had it, was it left in the ruins of the lab that Walter shot up before he died?  I don't remember.  Anyway, the authorities would be looking for any associate of Walt's. 

I doubt the Neo-Nazis would have failed to destroy Jesse's recorded confession, since it would have implicated them as well. Hank and Gomey, the two that saw the confession, are dead, but it is hard to come up with a scenario where Jesse isn't quickly captured, given the neo-nazis lab would likely have Jesse's fingerprints all over it, and Jesse was in no condition to successfully evade a manhunt. Jesse would likely confess all over again, it seems to me.

[Bryce Lynch]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I doubt the Neo-Nazis would have failed to destroy Jesse's recorded confession, since it would have implicated them as well. Hank and Gomey, the two that saw the confession, are dead, but it is hard to come up with a scenario where Jesse isn't quickly captured, given the neo-nazis lab would likely have Jesse's fingerprints all over it, and Jesse was in no condition to successfully evade a manhunt. Jesse would likely confess all over again, it seems to me.

I totally agree that the Neo-Nazis would likely have destroyed the confession.  

Are Jesse's prints in the system?  I know he was detained for questioning multiple times, but was he ever actually booked for a crime?  I think it would be unusual for a tweaker and small time drug dealer to have never been arrested and charged even before his involvement with Walt.  But, did he ever get arrested and printed on the show?

At any rate, Skyler obviously knew a lot about Saul's involvement and, assuming this was after Walt killed all the Nazis, she would probably be singing like a bird.  She might have even ratted out Saul, while the Nazis were alive, as I believe, that polite boy Todd, told her that he knew she had to talk to the police, but that she had to promise not to mention the lady with the dark hair who came to the car wash.   

Marie might also know about Saul, depending upon how much of Jesse's confession she overheard or that Hank shared with her.  Francesca, Kuby and Huell all know a lot, as well.   

Edited August 20, 2018 by Bryce Lynch

[ShadowFacts]

40 minutes ago, Bannon said:

I doubt the Neo-Nazis would have failed to destroy Jesse's recorded confession, since it would have implicated them as well. Hank and Gomey, the two that saw the confession, are dead, but it is hard to come up with a scenario where Jesse isn't quickly captured, given the neo-nazis lab would likely have Jesse's fingerprints all over it, and Jesse was in no condition to successfully evade a manhunt. Jesse would likely confess all over again, it seems to me.

I think they're all open questions, of course.  Jesse might have been caught soon and confessed everything, or maybe after having been a chained, beaten slave for months may have found a renewed reason to want to live free.  The gang was brazen enough to have a chained captive in a meth lab at their compound, so I don't know how careful they would be about the confession that they were watching for entertainment.  In any case, I think between what Skyler knew and Marie, Saul and Jesse both would be wanted but Saul had already had his face in the public for quite awhile, so harder for him to disappear than Jesse.