Prime Suspect (1973) - General Discussion

[Pickles]

2 hours ago, GussieK said:

SusanSunflower, ITA on Woodstock. I have no idea what they meant by that, and I was Jane Tennison's approximate age in 1973. 

As for Bentley Sr. in the waiting room, I was at a loss to explain whom he was waiting for. Did he actually think someone would show up?  

Maybe he was hoping his wife would show up, but he probably knew that was a lost cause. Or did they just let a whole group of prisoners into the visiting area, even though they may not have anyone coming to see them?

[Dowel Jones]

While I realize it was necessary for plot development, I can't understand why the police didn't block off any escape route ahead of time.  There was only one way out; through the cafe's front door or back door.  Put somebody there. 

[Kath94]

Can anyone here confirm if prison inmates in the UK actually wore ties, as depicted here?  I'm American & far too young to have known about prison fashion in the 70s, but knowing that US prisons take away belts, shoelaces, basically anything that can be used to hang yourself or others seem such a cultural difference!

[MortysCleaningLady]

So relieved that I wasn't the only one who didn't see the lover/ senior officer both dying and being married.   Well done, show!

[AllAboutMBTV]

Quote

at some point in the middle episode I decided I was simply going to ignore the Tennison thing and was watching this as a period police drama with a young police woman trying to make her mark.  And I enjoyed it quite a bit within those perimeters.

Agreed. I never saw any of the Tennison-to-come in either the way the character was written or in Martini's performance. But as a standalone police procedural I liked it. I always enjoy Alun Armstrong (Bentley Sr.), and, hey, it's Neil from The Inbetweeners (Gibbs)! While I thought Sam Reid's Bradfield was rather one-note, I've liked him in other things. (Sidebar: Can people having illicit affairs look around them before they start macking and then get busted for doing it? It's happening on every Sunday night show on PBS now -- My Mother and Other Strangers, Grantchester and this. Get a room, people!) My favorite aspect of PS:T was the production values. They spent a fortune on period cars alone.

[proserpina65]

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 11:40 PM, Pickles said:

Did not see it coming that Bradfield was married with kids! Clearly, Jane did not either.

I actually figured it out early on.  I'm surprised that she didn't.

I found the resolution of both cases quite overly melodramatic.  And I still wasn't buying that actress as Jane Tennison.  Practically nothing of how the character was presented bore any resemblance to the Jane we see later.

On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 3:05 AM, magdalene said:

I never could buy this young woman as a young Tennison and that she didn't look in the least like Mirren didn't help but isn't the main reason I couldn't accept her.  I watch "Endeavour" about the young Morse and that actor doesn't look anything like the old Morse - yet because of the spirit of the performance he is young Morse to me.

However, at some point in the middle episode I decided I was simply going to ignore the Tennison thing and was watching this as a period police drama with a young police woman trying to make her mark.  And I enjoyed it quite a bit within those perimeters.  I liked the production values and the supporting cast of police and criminals.  Stand-outs I thought were the mother of the criminals and the sergeant our heroine saved from a police brutality charge.  That actor had a good period look and was always interesting to watch.

Ironically her police detective lover was the blandest part to me - until he got killed off (which I didn't expect) and turned out to be married with children all along - which I also didn't see coming.

This was pretty much how I ended up handling it.  Although I thought there wasn't enough blatant sexism.  Certainly not as much as the original, which was set in the nineties.

[AnnieBeez]

I found this show to be soooooooo slow. Costuming and setting was great, but the story really was lacking. On a shallow note, Jane's heavy dark brows were really distracting.

[Brattinella]

6 minutes ago, MissHavisham said:

I found this show to be soooooooo slow. Costuming and setting was great, but the story really was lacking. On a shallow note, Jane's heavy dark brows were really distracting.

VERY.  I have always thought if you want to go blonde, lighten up those eyebrows, too.

[proserpina65]

15 hours ago, Brattinella said:

VERY.  I have always thought if you want to go blonde, lighten up those eyebrows, too.

I wouldn't recommend this to people in general, at least not at home, because dyeing anything close to one's eyes can be difficult and dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.  However, an actress with access to top-flight professional hair colorists (presumably the television production uses good hair people) don't really have an excuse.

[Brattinella]

20 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

I wouldn't recommend this to people in general, at least not at home, because dyeing anything close to one's eyes can be difficult and dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.  However, an actress with access to top-flight professional hair colorists (presumably the television production uses good hair people) don't really have an excuse.

Of course not!  I think most people know they should not use bleach near their eyes.  I was referring mainly to the new eyebrow preparations, waxes, etc, that color the entire brow area.  Or use a professional hair colorist.

[SusanSunflower]

I don't remember that sort of ombre dark root dye job in the 70's either ... actually several folks here and in "my mother and other strangers" had strangely monocolor hair suggesting careless use of wigs since in "mother" era, those folks would have frowned on dye jobs as unnatural, vain, frivolous and suggesting immorality i.e. "cheap"   Gray hair was covered -- when it was -- with fool-no-one dyes.  

Again, a female police officer would not have wanted her working class colleagues to think she spend time and big money on something as transitory as dyed hair ... definitely an expensive professional job since home dye kits were "still being developed" (and monochrome hair looks artificial and cheap) 

Edited July 12, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[12catcrazy]

In reply to SusanSunflower, there was plenty of home dyed hair back in the 70s.  I was in high school  (a convent school, no less) and I had classmates (and at least one teacher) who dyed their hair.  Clairol had their "Born Blonde" line from back in the late 60s at least, and it was in every drugstore that I was aware of.   And there were lots of other home dye products as well.  

I thought the dark roots on Jane were indicative of her maybe starting to let her appearance slide at bit as she was so engrossed in her job.  The dark eyebrows were harsh looking but then again, that was somewhat the style and most women weren't going to be bleaching their eyebrows to go with their hair (and again, there were products for that use at the time).   

[Tosia]

I color my eyebrows with regular light blonde hair coloring,  and as, long as you're careful about drips,   no worries.  Jane's  dark eyebrows are very distracting. 

I'm going to give a pass to casting on this young Jane, because  photos of young Helen Mirren show her to be absolutely gorgeous when she was in Shakespeare productions, with long hair.  Of course,  Helen is awesome now too, but there is still a very slight resemblance to this young actress.  

Plus, I figured that this series shows how the tougher, stronger Jane was formed as she rose through the ranks.  

[statsgirl]

Dark eyebrows with blonde hair is a current fashion thing.  Caity Lotz (Legends of Tomorrow) showed up at a fan event last weekend with eyebrows strikingly dark with her blonde hair. I hope that's not why Jane's eyebrows were so dark here; I find modern details in a period piece annoying whether it's the light blue eyeshadow in Tom Jones or the zillion candles in Keira Knightly's Pride and Prejudice.

Whether natural or not, her dark eyebrows were very distracting.

I'm glad Bradfield was a cheating husband.  Now I don't mourn the character.

Edited July 16, 2017 by statsgirl

[AnnieBeez]

4 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Dark eyebrows with blonde hair is a current fashion thing.  Caity Lotz (Legends of Tomorrow) showed up at a fan event last weekend with eyebrows strikingly dark with her blonde hair. I hope that's not why Jane's eyebrows were so dark here; I find modern details in a period piece annoying whether it's the light blue eyeshadow in Tom Jones or the zillion candles in Keira Knightly's Pride and Prejudice.

Whether natural or not, her dark eyebrows were very distracting.

I'm glad Bradfield was a cheating husband.  Now I don't mourn the character.

Not to get too stuck on the eyebrows, but I also think thinner brows were the thing then.

[Brattinella]

5 hours ago, MissHavisham said:

Not to get too stuck on the eyebrows, but I also think thinner brows were the thing then.

Very true; think "Twiggy".  This is a mistake in the styling of this show.

[nx74defiant]

On 7/14/2017 at 3:18 PM, 12catcrazy said:

In reply to SusanSunflower, there was plenty of home dyed hair back in the 70s.  I was in high school  (a convent school, no less) and I had classmates (and at least one teacher) who dyed their hair.  Clairol had their "Born Blonde" line from back in the late 60s at least, and it was in every drugstore that I was aware of.   And there were lots of other home dye products as well.  

I thought the dark roots on Jane were indicative of her maybe starting to let her appearance slide at bit as she was so engrossed in her job.  The dark eyebrows were harsh looking but then again, that was somewhat the style and most women weren't going to be bleaching their eyebrows to go with their hair (and again, there were products for that use at the time).   

The 70s hair dye. That brings back memoires. My best friend was always dyeing her "dishwater blonde" hair to be blonder. I remember the various horrible orange colors she would often end up with. I was terrified to dye my own hair even decades later.

[SusanSunflower]

yes, I know and knew there were dyes ... I wsa referring specifically to Tennison's ombre dye job that today would probably (?) be an expensive salon project ... the "tell" about dyed hair, which I also mentioned, was that dyed hair tended to be all one color** which natural hair color rarely is (aside from naturally deep black/dark brown) and that I had noticed that in many shows the "cheap wigs" (or maybe just old enough to have been used pre high-def) are also often monotone (and no-gloss), looking like a dead thing.  

** no, I'm not talking about streaks or highlights, which I also know about, and were popular -- even homemade lemon juice in the summer sun --  particularly among the natural blonds in Southern California where I grew up. I don't recall much interest beyond getting blond ... Hitchcock's blondes represented a non-tanned model. 

Bottle blondes have been around forever, however, in the feminist 1970's there was a lot of emphasis in being taken seriously as a professional and so makeup and hair were kept non-alluring and low maintenance (since touch-ups were so female).  Different jobs have different standards and dress codes.  My first job had a dress code that included no colored nail polish, no perfume, unobtrusive plain jewelry, no sleeveless and more. Not presenting oneself as a "sex object" meant for many the loathsome woman's business suit (complete with tie).  It wasn't that anyone particularly "liked" those things as "fashion" or "flattering" -- it's that they were business attire to signify a business-like attitude (make no mistake) not to be confused with help-meet women eager to make and pour the coffee and taken the meeting notes. 

For Jane, her appearance also -- imho -- would signify her "posh" upbringing ... no DIY dye job, no awkwardly unpressed or ill-fitting clothing, no smeared mascara or whiff of sweat. 

Endeavor (irrc) came from a lower working class family but Cambridge gave him some sartorial role models (although he doesn't usually have tastes beyond his station -- except opera and Jaguars, perhaps). 

Between both shows, I'm wondering if law enforcement was such a magnet for that generation's best-and-brightest who might have chosen some other white-collar profession.  We'll never know what allure Law Enforcement held for young Jane.  The only woman I've known who aspired to police academy hoped to join the FBI and dreamed of being part of hostage negotiations -- I never understood the allure -- she said it was the "excitement" ... I lost track of her after a year or two of regular dispatches from city college night courses and physical training to pass the impossible-for-women (upper body strength doncha know) physical exam. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by SusanSunflower

[catrice2]

Sorry this did not get a second season. I wonder if it was the ratings or the issues with the writer walking out on the show over the creative differences.  Some of the casting choices were interesting. 

[proserpina65]

Having just re-watched Prime Suspect 1 and 2 (after being inspired by watching this), all I can say is that there's no way I see the person shown here developing into Jane Tennison,  No way.

[Mumbles]

I wanted to like this. I love the sub-sub-genre of UK police period pieces (George Gently, Endeavor, Life on Mars). But the story was stretched too thin and I got bored by the end. And I did kinda dig that the older male colleague did seem to be attracted to Jane's intelligence (although I'm sure her prettiness helped), what a shame he was a dog who was cheating on his wife/mother of his small children.

[SusanSunflower]

Found Martini and a very impressive cast in a Julian Fellowes production of an Agatha Christie story (sort of) on Amazon .... called "Crooked House" .... high production values, dreadful dialog, impressive cast, a lot of scenery chewing and magnificent production values ... (I thought it was dreadful -- mostly because the pretentious and ponderous dialogue and "artistic" camera work seemed to be adding unnecessary "complexity" by obsfuscation .... the aforementioned charms of Glenn Close, Terrance Stamp, Gillian Anderson among others are real ... not a bad way to spend an couple hours.  It was rated "fresh" (71%) on Rotten Tomatoes when it came out in 2017, but was reviewed by a remarkably small number of reviewers considering its pedigree.  Apparently it premiered around the same time as Branaugh's Murder on the Orient Express (57%).   fwiw, Amazon reviewers said the book is really quite good and significant changes were made. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by SusanSunflower

[nara]

On 7/7/2017 at 4:19 PM, 12catcrazy said:

Still enjoying this show but a bit taken aback by Jane jumping into bed with her boss.  We know that she's sexually "liberated" by her mother finding her birth control pills but for being a smart, young, ambitious woman, she doesn't seem to realize that no matter how good she is on the job, her success is going to be chalked up to her sleeping with the boss!

Again, not having seen the Helen Mirren show, I don't know if there was ever anything in there about the character having "slept her way up the ladder" but I remember there was something like that in the short-lived American remake.  The New York version of Jane Tennison seemed to have a number or personal issues and there seemed to be a long-standing simmering resentment by some of the male detectives that she had gotten her position by having a long-ago affair with her boss.  

I don’t think there needs to be any rumors about Jane having slept her way up. She is 22 in this show and may never have done it again. In her place, I would have learned my lesson. The station closed ranks around her for her lie to protect Gibbs, so they would have kept a lid on this brief affair. Plus, I suspect they would have felt pity because Bradfield died on the job and he seemed to genuinely like Jane—as opposed to it being a purely sexual fling.

On 7/9/2017 at 11:40 PM, Pickles said:

Did not see it coming that Bradfield was married with kids! Clearly, Jane did not either.

I call BS on Bradfield being married. I think they  threw that it for shock value. It’s inconceivable that Morgan or the Police Sergeant wouldn’t have warned Jane, even if Bradfield chose to keep his personal life quiet—either for their safety or for nefarious reasons. I think it’s more likely that he would tell Jane his wife didn’t understand him blah blah blah.

 

Loved this show (even though I am late to the party) and was disappointed that they did not do more series. Here we see the initial intelligence and commitment of the future Tennison without the experience and authority that she will have . I would have liked to see that development.

[Leeds]

On 7/15/2017 at 9:02 PM, statsgirl said:

Dark eyebrows with blonde hair is a current fashion thing.  Caity Lotz (Legends of Tomorrow) showed up at a fan event last weekend with eyebrows strikingly dark with her blonde hair. I hope that's not why Jane's eyebrows were so dark here; I find modern details in a period piece annoying whether it's the light blue eyeshadow in Tom Jones or the zillion candles in Keira Knightly's Pride and Prejudice.

Whether natural or not, her dark eyebrows were very distracting.

 

Dark brows with blonde hair has been around for decades.  Jayne Mansfield? Marilyn Monroe?  Farrah Fawcett Major?