S02.E02: Karma

[fellini]

As Smurf adjusts to being sidelined, the boys scope out their next job; Deran needs quick cash, so Pope and Craig lend him a hand; Baz investigates Catherine's disappearance.

[solea]

Was Baz this much of a douche nozzle last season? You have to work pretty hard to make your creepy, murdering brother the more likable one. 

Hard to believe Craig is still alive what with only those 15 brain cells he's got. He's like a dopey irish setter that keeps missing the frisbee. 

Deran can't know how much work a bar can be. He thinks he does, but probably doesn't. Is he going to have employees? 'Cause if not he won't have time to pull jobs. 

Why do I have the feeling Pope will end up killing the Bible teacher?

I want more capers and Jay. 

[Chaos Theory]

9 hours ago, solea said:

Was Baz this much of a douche nozzle last season? You have to work pretty hard to make your creepy, murdering brother the more likable one. 

Hard to believe Craig is still alive what with only those 15 brain cells he's got. He's like a dopey irish setter that keeps missing the frisbee. 

Deran can't know how much work a bar can be. He thinks he does, but probably doesn't. Is he going to have employees? 'Cause if not he won't have time to pull jobs. 

Why do I have the feeling Pope will end up killing the Bible teacher?

I want more capers and Jay. 

Baz was always a douche nozzle he just hid it better when he was happy.  He had (at least) two girlfriends and a kid he saw when he felt like it.   Now he has to watch a kid 24/7 that actually demands his time and a single girlfriend who doesn't want to be anything more then his occasional bed buddy.

Pope is creepy but there is also something about him.   He is better with his brother's kid and he is kinder to his other brothers then Baz is.  

Deran has always wanted a way out and for him this looks like it.  A legitimate way to make money.  I am not sure he understands how much work it actually takes but I don't think he is completely oblivious to it either.  The question I have is if he's capable of that much work.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[sugarbaker design]

8 hours ago, solea said:

Why do I have the feeling Pope will end up killing the Bible teacher?

Pope only murders women that have children with either him or his brothers.  So when the EPT test shows a plus sign it's time to worry.

[Chaos Theory]

Pope isn't nearly as crazy or a bad seed as people think he is.  He is better with Lena then Baz is and he was the one to come up with robbing the taco truck and gave his cut to Deran.  

I am not saying he won't kill again.  But I don't think he is the "bad" brother.  He has shown more genuine emotion the Baz has.   My guess is that he will be fine until Smurf get ahold of him again.  She was the one who manipulated him into murder in the first place.

[sugarbaker design]

I'm sure many murderers exhibit good parenting skills and are generous to their siblings.  But they're still murderers.  I'm the first one to admit there are mitigating circumstances (Smurf messing around with Pope's medications i.e.), but the fact is Pope held the pillow over Catherine's face, while Catherine struggled, he held it over her face until she was dead.

Has there been a change in showrunner this season?  The tone is much different than last season.

[Artsda]

Smurf's got multiple storage lockers with safes of cash? The others don't know they exist do they?

I liked Pope giving his money over to Deran so he wouldn't do anything stupid for the rest of the money.

Craig is an idiot. 

Why the heck is Smurf letting the dumb teen girl live with them? Especially without asking Jay first? 

I think Baz's spiral is partly due to the fact he does in his mind think Catherine's dead. I think Pope suddenly being attentive uncle/father of the year is due to guilt. 

[lazylou]

Have to agree that Baz has always been a douche.  He was a terrible husband and father throughout the first season, and it appears he was responsible for Julia's exile from the family. Think how Baz reacted when Jay asked if he was his father?   Why is he so suspicious of Jay? Does he realize Jay may have been on the brink of telling him about the cops just before the big job at Pendleton, a confidence Baz derailed by his attitude?

And Pope has always had some redeeming qualities.  He now seems to be on his meds and very resentful and aware of Smurf's ability to manipulate him, as well as filled with guilt for having killed the woman he loved.   Unfortunately Catherine misplayed her final hand by doing just what Smurf had pointed out to Pope that she had always done...played him. ...Not that I am blaming the victim....what a shame she did not take that money she stole from Smurf and head with Lina to Mexico.  Finally, Pope, creepy and scary as he was when not on his meds, did seem to have loved Julia and, for whatever reason, did seem to try to sympathize with Jay about her death.

I see Jay is still dong math, but his attendance at school appears sporadic, thanks to his family, and sadly it appears he is not going to go on to college.  Maybe Smurf invited the girl to the house in an effort to use her to control Jay.  However, Jay may well see Nicki for who she is and Smurf may have made a mistake.

Edited June 7, 2017 by lazylou
Spelling error

[sugarbaker design]

3 minutes ago, lazylou said:

for whatever reason, [Pope] did seem to try to sympathize with Jay about her death.

The reason may be he's Jay's father.

[lazylou]

Just now, sugarbaker design said:

The reason may be he's Jay's father.

That really would be terrible...after all, Pope and Julia were not only full siblings, but twins....though who knows what they may have done as kids...maybe possible.  Consider the carving on the bed!  However, he did, in the first season,  say something to Baz like, "you were supposed to be her brother too" which suggests to me that while Pope may have wanted to be more than her brother, he did not act on the impulse.

In the latest show Baz does say something to Pope like, "no one will ever have a baby with you," which suggests that Baz is the father of Lina and maybe Jay. 

[topanga]

10 hours ago, solea said:

Was Baz this much of a douche nozzle last season? You have to work pretty hard to make your creepy, murdering brother the more likable one. 

Hard to believe Craig is still alive what with only those 15 brain cells he's got. He's like a dopey irish setter that keeps missing the frisbee. 

Deran can't know how much work a bar can be. He thinks he does, but probably doesn't. Is he going to have employees? 'Cause if not he won't have time to pull jobs. 

Why do I have the feeling Pope will end up killing the Bible teacher?

I want more capers and Jay. 

 

I love that Smurf said that Craig would love having teenage Nicki stay at the house. The smirk on her face was priceless. I wonder if J really is cool with it or if, per usual, he's burying his emotions in order to keep the peace. 

Yes, Craig is hanging on by a thread. But I liked his concerns about karma. And he loves Darren. 

Baz is a huge d-bag this season. Part of it could be his concern for Catherine possible grief. He brought the possibility with the private investigator that she could be dead. 

Bur poor Lena. She doesn't deserve being tossed aside by her dad. It was sad when she heard Lucy and thought it was her mom. And what's wrong with Lucy-- a married chick who doesn't like children. "Your daughter STAYS with you sometimes? You could have told me that." WTF? Why is it weird for a daughter to visit her father?

I want more J, too. I also wonder if Manny is his dad. Smurf asked him to go with her to the wake. Or is it just that she doesn't want to go alone? I hate that Manny is supposedly an important character in Smurf's life, and we know nothing about him. Maybe there will be flashbacks in the future. 

[sugarbaker design]

4 minutes ago, lazylou said:

In the latest show Baz does say something to Pope like, "no one will ever have a baby with you," which suggests that Baz is the father of Lina and maybe Jay. 

You see, I think it suggests that Pope in fact, already has a baby.

[iMonrey]

Please don't tell me Pope is going to find religion at this church they're casing.

This is such a weird season, both Daren and Baz feel almost like different characters, and Jay is such a cipher. The first season really revolved around Jay's journey and so far he's adrift in this one. Pope actually feels like the sanest of the bunch when he was the dangerously crazy villain last season. I guess Smurf and Craig are the real constants. 

Quote

Why the heck is Smurf letting the dumb teen girl live with them? Especially without asking Jay first? 

I'm guessing just because she's lonely. She's used to having a lot of activity in the house, and we had that shot of her staring wistfully out the patio door remembering her four boys playing in the pool.

Quote

I see Jay is still dong math, but his attendance at school appears sporadic

I want to know what the hell kind of school these kids go to that lets them just show up whenever the hell they feel like it and they can still pass their classes. They're not in college after all. If I didn't show up for high school the school called my house. 

Also: when Smurf was helping Lena get ready for school she handed her this big, puffy down coat. In San Diego? Never. I lived in San Diego for a year, the coldest it ever got was maybe in the 60s and that's only if it was raining.

Edited June 7, 2017 by iMonrey

[Joimiaroxeu]

Oh man, the way Pope looked at Lucy when Lena saw her, I wouldn't be surprised if he later kills her.

I think Nicky has really aged since she's been hanging out doing drugs with Craig. And it's a wonder she hasn't gotten pregnant. A blessing too since that baby would born into a den of felonious and incestuous fcukery.

"No one is ever gonna have a kid with you!" Um, yeah, about that...I'm still guessing that Lena is Pope's kid and Baz is in denial about it.

Quote

Pope only murders women that have children with either him or his brothers.  So when the EPT test shows a plus sign it's time to worry.

Heh, Nicky better be using at least two forms of contraception then.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Joimiaroxeu

[Chaos Theory]

Nicky right now is a great pawn.  Despite what J says he still has feelings for her and Smurf knew by inviting her to stay it would keep J and most likely Craig close.  

Nicky still believes that Smurf is the best person ever and Nicky is not exactly bright.  Add to it her use of drugs Smurf knows she will be easy to manipulate. Which is why Smurf likes her.  

Edited June 7, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[Texasmom1970]

Baz, Baz, Baz that shade of I'm an asshole does not look good on you. Stop thinking with your dick, get your priorities in check, and get home and care for your maybe she is yours daughter.

I usually don't care for guys with any kind of pony tail. But Craig and Derran when they were pretending to work on the church AC, yum!

Also love Craig with his karma worries. Drugs, robbery, screwing your relatives underage ex that's cool. But if a church is involved oh no!

[NorthstarATL]

6 hours ago, Artsda said:

Why the heck is Smurf letting the dumb teen girl live with them? Especially without asking Jay first?

I think this hits the nail on the head:

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Nicky right now is a great pawn.  Despite what J says he still has feelings for her and Smurf knew by inviting her to stay it would keep J and most likely Craig close.

Smurf didn't seem to care much for females last season, and I doubt Nicky is the exception. IIRC that was part of the problem with J's mother and her. Smurf seemed, until this season, much better at handling guys.

  Baz lost me with his horrific treatment of his daughter.

5 hours ago, lazylou said:

In the latest show Baz does say something to Pope like, "no one will ever have a baby with you," which suggests that Baz is the father of Lina and maybe Jay.

I was sure all last season until the end that Pope had had sex with his sister, and that J AND the sister spiraling out of control were the result. I can't recall what made me no longer think that, but Pope is hopefully Lena's dad. She deserves better than Baz.

[MaggieG]

I loved Deran busting Craig's balls about the fire. Craig is an idiot. A hot idiot but an idiot nonetheless. I also liked that Pope and Craig gave Deran the money he needed. 

Baz is officially the worst father ever.

[Raja]

22 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Please don't tell me Pope is going to find religion at this church they're casing.

This is such a weird season, both Daren and Baz feel almost like different characters, and Jay is such a cipher. The first season really revolved around Jay's journey and so far he's adrift in this one. Pope actually feels like the sanest of the bunch when he was the dangerously crazy villain last season. I guess Smurf and Craig are the real constants. 

I'm guessing just because she's lonely. She's used to having a lot of activity in the house, and we had that shot of her staring wistfully out the patio door remembering her four boys playing in the pool.

I want to know what the hell kind of school these kids go to that lets them just show up whenever the hell they feel like it and they can still pass their classes. They're not in college after all. If I didn't show up for high school the school called my house. 

Also: when Smurf was helping Lena get ready for school she handed her this big, puffy down coat. In San Diego? Never. I lived in San Diego for a year, the coldest it ever got was maybe in the 60s and that's only if it was raining.

I think Pope already found religion, probably in a prison ministry. I  am not saying he will be like Boyd Crowder in Justified but rather not instantaneously hostile to the ideal either.

Where are they going with the Bible teacher?  All of the rest of the women around the boys had their own drug habits which were feed. Is she interested in his cold as a shark's dead eyes as a man or just part of her Evangelist dream to save another. 

[iMonrey]

Quote

I'm still guessing that Lena is Pope's kid and Baz is in denial about it.

I'd really have to go back and watch Season 1 again but I do recall some scenes where Pope showed up at Catherine and Baz's house and Catherine told him he had to stop coming over. I have a vague recollection that there was something between them but she seemed mostly afraid of him. Maybe someone who recently did a rewatch can fill us in. I honestly don't think Baz has any idea, though - that seemed to be the root of Catherine's fear. 

Quote

I usually don't care for guys with any kind of pony tail. But Craig and Derran when they were pretending to work on the church AC, yum!

Funny you should say that because I was thinking how much nicer Deran looked with his hair pulled back away from his face.

Quote

 I also liked that Pope and Craig gave Deran the money he needed. 

And yet at the very end we see Craig returning to his burned-out house. I took that to mean Deran said "No" to his request to crash with him, even after he gave him his money! LOL.

[MaggieG]

38 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

And yet at the very end we see Craig returning to his burned-out house. I took that to mean Deran said "No" to his request to crash with him, even after he gave him his money! LOL.

Deran probably doesn't want that annoying Nicky showing up LOL

[Artsda]

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

And yet at the very end we see Craig returning to his burned-out house. I took that to mean Deran said "No" to his request to crash with him, even after he gave him his money! LOL.

I actually just took that as him wanting to see what he did to his house.

Edited June 9, 2017 by Artsda

[ethalfrida]

For some reason episode 2 was much better than episode 1. I watched the first one twice and still couldn't get into it. At one point in the opener the Oedipal was way over the top. 

Anyways, in episode it looked like thay were driving down Highway 1 in Orange County.Anyone know?

[iMonrey]

I couldn't tell where they were supposed to be when they were hijacking the food truck, but it's awfully lucky for them nobody else was driving by during the shoot-out. That would have been one deserted road.

[BunchOMalarkey]

On 6/7/2017 at 0:27 PM, topanga said:

 

I love that Smurf said that Craig would love having teenage Nicki stay at the house. The smirk on her face was priceless. I wonder if J really is cool with it or if, per usual, he's burying his emotions in order to keep the peace. 

Yes, Craig is hanging on by a thread. But I liked his concerns about karma. And he loves Darren. 

Baz is a huge d-bag this season. Part of it could be his concern for Catherine possible grief. He brought the possibility with the private investigator that she could be dead. 

Bur poor Lena. She doesn't deserve being tossed aside by her dad. It was sad when she heard Lucy and thought it was her mom. And what's wrong with Lucy-- a married chick who doesn't like children. "Your daughter STAYS with you sometimes? You could have told me that." WTF? Why is it weird for a daughter to visit her father?

I want more J, too. I also wonder if Manny is his dad. Smurf asked him to go with her to the wake. Or is it just that she doesn't want to go alone? I hate that Manny is supposedly an important character in Smurf's life, and we know nothing about him. Maybe there will be flashbacks in the future. 

I didn't think Lucy didn't like children. I took her response to mean that she didn't want to be discovered by his kid in that way. That is a heck of a way for them to meet - especially if there is ever to be a future with her and Baz.

 

Baz is horrible and gets more unattractive with every episode. 

[ethalfrida]

Posted on wrong episode...

Edited June 23, 2017 by ethalfrida
Posted on wrong episode...

[Novel8]

That scene with the church lady and Pope was really odd. Is Pope impotent? He is never shown interest in any of the females that come around. The lady was as if she was a whore in a brothel and Pope was going for the first time and she was showing him how it should be done.

My wife noticed that of all the guys in this show, Baz is the one guy that is never shown completely nude. Is it because of his star status and told the producers...no nudity for me...ha,ha.

[Raja]

9 minutes ago, Novel8 said:

That scene with the church lady and Pope was really odd. Is Pope impotent? He is never shown interest in any of the females that come around. The lady was as if she was a whore in a brothel and Pope was going for the first time and she was showing him how it should be done.

My wife noticed that of all the guys in this show, Baz is the one guy that is never shown completely nude. Is it because of his star status and told the producers...no nudity for me...ha,ha.

The last season we saw Pope having sex with Baz's wife when he smothered her to death. as she was trying to seduce him to save herself. About the closest that I can remember Pope showing intimacy was when he was spooning with Smurf.

[lazylou]

4 hours ago, Raja said:

The last season we saw Pope having sex with Baz's wife when he smothered her to death. as she was trying to seduce him to save herself. About the closest that I can remember Pope showing intimacy was when he was spooning with Smurf.

There was also a scene in the first season when the bros were celebrating Pope's birthday.  They took him to a strip joint and arranged for him to be with one of the girls...at which time he told her he had not had an erection for a long time and then insisted on her turning her back to him and saying, "We can't...we can't" or something like that before we see him reaching for the condom. Who knows whom he was imagining she was...Smurf? Catherine? Julia?  So it did occur to me that he may have been fearful he could not perform with Amy and thus the "talk"...or maybe he was just stalling for time.  This is all posted on the wrong episode, though!