Season 2 Talk

[Dowel Jones]

Once again, Teresa bounces from crisis to crisis, but manages to evade the consequences.  And the DEA planted evidence on Camilla?  I'm shocked.  SHOCKED!

Note to mourners:  Nothing says narco so much as wearing sunglasses inside a church during a funeral.

How in the hell was Camilla going to launder $30 million in cash for the payment of the 2200# of coke?  That's like a full time job right there.  I could see doing it over time, but if this guy was going to deliver it over the weekend, that's some serious weight.

I did like Kika's comment about Pedro:  "When Pedro gets smashed, he gets all Kanye and shit."  Ouch, that's a smackdown of the first order.  Turns out Pedro's a weasel, too.  Poor Isabella.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

And the DEA planted evidence on Camilla?

I was baking while watching last night but are we sure it was the DEA?  I was wondering if it was Theresa because didn't she call the police?

[SoapDoc]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I was baking while watching last night but are we sure it was the DEA?  I was wondering if it was Theresa because didn't she call the police?

It was the DEA. Teresa only called to keep Camillia alive. 

[slf]

I'm kind of hoping Camila doesn't survive the season, tbh. She has about three kinds of scenes ("you/other men underestimate me", sexy times with lawyer, being condescending to people she's totally dependent on) and none of them interest me. Also the empowerment angle the show keeps trying to sell me w/r/t her just a joke. C'mon, the woman used to make her money by drugging women against their will and letting them get raped. A feminist she ain't. For all that the writers seem to love her I didn't find a single thing she did interesting. I'm ready to be done with the Vargas' entirely.

[SimoneS]

I thought this was the best episode in a long time. Finally, there was major plot movement where the light at the end of the Vargas tunnel appeared. Teresa finally found out that Camilla was exactly who Pote kept warning her that she is. I want to see whose side James takes. Camilla would throw him under bus also. How loyal is he to her? The Colonel survived his shooting and barbecue and is on his way to take care of the husband. I don't even understand why he decided to kill the Colonel and his men, but I am glad he failed.

Edited August 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[Irlandesa]

I'm not happy the Colonel lived.  I've been tired of him all season.  I kind of envisioned mutually assured destruction between Camila and Epi.  I also wish the daughter had OD'd.

I really enjoyed the episode as well.  I like Camila more than others here and I especially appreciate seeing her toughness in the fight and her manipulation.  I wonder if she's going to die this season or if she becomes the antagonist next season.

BTW, it was renewed for a third season today.

[Chicago Redshirt]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

The Colonel survived his shooting and barbecue and is on his way to take care of the husband. I don't even understand why he decided to kill the Colonel and his men, but I am glad he failed.

Epi had declared Camilla off-limits and thought that the Colonel was abiding by that dictate.  Because reasons, Epi didn't see that the guy who fed him  BBQ Batman would not keep his word and would instead try to rub Camilla out. Epi only figured it out when daughter explained her ODing was because she was worried about her mom and specifically talked about Colonel trying to kill Camilla.

So it finally became clear that a. Colonel disobeyed orders and b. Colonel would continue his attempts to kill Camilla unless he did something.

He can't just kill Colonel because a. Colonel's men would avenge him and try to kill Epi and b. his men would still go after Camilla. 

That said, I don't really understand why Epi cited Batman as the reason he did what he was doing. I also don't get why he didn't make sure Colonel died. And finally, I don't know if Epi thought two moves ahead to see that trying to kill Colonel would fundamentally undermine his deal with Boaz.

[SimoneS]

I forgot to mention that I was shocked when the lawyer's wife shot him. I had her pegged as the usual young blonde trophy wife. She lost it though. This will make her a threat and will likely get her killed. Too bad.

Also, I was impressed about how Teresa sussed out Camila's lies in the prison. I thought she would confront her directly, but instead she set a trap and Camila walked right in.

 

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I really enjoyed the episode as well.  I like Camila more than others here and I especially appreciate seeing her toughness in the fight and her manipulation.  I wonder if she's going to die this season or if she becomes the antagonist next season.

BTW, it was renewed for a third season today.

I am always conflicted about Camila. While I admire her toughness and survival instincts, I cannot get over her drugging women so they can be raped. However, I have no problem with her being Teresa's antagonist next season since Epi might not make it with the Colonel out there.

 

9 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Epi had declared Camilla off-limits and thought that the Colonel was abiding by that dictate.  Because reasons, Epi didn't see that the guy who fed him  BBQ Batman would not keep his word and would instead try to rub Camilla out. Epi only figured it out when daughter explained her ODing was because she was worried about her mom and specifically talked about Colonel trying to kill Camilla.

So it finally became clear that a. Colonel disobeyed orders and b. Colonel would continue his attempts to kill Camilla unless he did something.

He can't just kill Colonel because a. Colonel's men would avenge him and try to kill Epi and b. his men would still go after Camilla.

Thanks for the explanation. I usually catch the show when it is being shown at odd hours so sometimes I miss bits of the episodes.

Edited August 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[TigerLynx]

Both the Vargas should end up dead this season.  They have become liabilities, and drug dealers do not tolerate liabilities of any kind.  I'm still baffled by the idea that someone can get out of the drug dealing business, the Mafia, or a gang and live.

The Colonel should be dead.  He was on fire.  Not burnt a little, not barely escaped, but literally on fire.  Even if he had survived the fire, the chance that the Colonel would get an infection and die while recovering in the burn unit of a hospital is also very high.  Casually walking around shot and burnt was ridiculous.

I like Teresa, but who does she think she is working for?  No matter what facade they present the reality is drug dealing criminals are going to protect themselves, and throw everyone else under the bus.

[Chicago Redshirt]

Camilla has told Teresa to her face numerous times that she would not hesitate to kill her if she thought it was warranted. But being set up is different, IMO, because the deal Teresa probably perceived was that if I'm loyal to Camilla, she will be loyal to me. The fact that Camilla set her up proves that is wrong. 

Also, it was pretty much strictly unnecessary and futile.

Literally, Camilla could have named just about anyone she wanted to, even a fictitious person, as the so-called owner of the company.

And if the papers came to light saying "Teresa Mendoza," I don't see how that would get Camilla out of her jam. 

First of all, it would not be enough to show that our Teresa Mendoza was the owner of the company. The signature wouldn't necessarily match our Teresa Mendoza's signature. And there would be no other sign besides that document that our Teresa Mendoza received any profits from the venture, or had the capital to buy the shipping company in the first place.

But even accepting for the sake of argument that the authorities would not use some common sense or do any additional investigating to see that Teresa essentially could not have been the owner , all that would mean is that Teresa was working for Camilla. Nobody would buy that Teresa was the queenpin back when the documents were signed presumably a year or so ago, after she'd just come from Mexico with basically nothing. 

Re: lawyer's wife, I think she has some potential usefulness for a bit. As she said, she herself is an attorney. And her being hot will lead to her being underestimated. I could see her at least for a while being a confidante for Teresa. After all, they initially hit things off. But at some point, the fact that Teresa is a witness to her murdering her husband will cause her to become an obstacle.

Re: the Vargases, I think it's more likely that Epi will attempt to regain his position and eventually take out both Boaz and the Colonel. He can then justify all-out war against Teresa since he's held himself back out of Camilla. I likewise think that there is some more mileage to be gained out of Camilla seething over Teresa's rise.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Chicago Redshirt

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, TigerLynx said:

The Colonel should be dead.  He was on fire.  Not burnt a little, not barely escaped, but literally on fire.  Even if he had survived the fire, the chance that the Colonel would get an infection and die while recovering in the burn unit of a hospital is also very high.  Casually walking around shot and burnt was ridiculous.

The Colonel wasn't on fire, that was one on his men. The last they showed him, he was shot in the shoulder and curled up on the ground wincing in pain as the fire flared around him. This is why I wasn't surprised that he made it out alive. 

 

1 hour ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

And if the papers came to light saying "Teresa Mendoza," I don't see how that would get Camilla out of her jam. 

First of all, it would not be enough to show that our Teresa Mendoza was the owner of the company. The signature wouldn't necessarily match our Teresa Mendoza's signature. And there would be no other sign besides that document that our Teresa Mendoza received any profits from the venture, or had the capital to buy the shipping company in the first place.

But even accepting for the sake of argument that the authorities would not use some common sense or do any additional investigating to see that Teresa essentially could not have been the owner , all that would mean is that Teresa was working for Camilla. Nobody would buy that Teresa was the queenpin back when the documents were signed presumably a year or so ago, after she'd just come from Mexico with basically nothing. 

While the legal authorities would not buy Teresa as the sole operator of the drug business. I am sure that an ambitious prosecutor would be happy to make a splash prosecuting Teresa, thereby giving Camila some breathing space so she could regroup. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Also, I was impressed about how Teresa sussed out Camila's lies in the prison. I thought she would confront her directly, but instead she set a trap and Camila walked right in.

I'm impressed by Teresa period, I like that girl. Another lesson learned, she's got nine lives.  The "sisterhood" is OVER, and it's really on now. None of this surprises me, Tre is as useful to Camilla as she is a threat and of course Camilla damn well knows this. There was no where to go but to full on enemy territory with these two women. They are both leaders in a business where there isn't much room for sharing power. No way in hell was Camilla going to share as in be her partner, please. 

Damn, is the Colonel the example of being such and evil being, he can't be killed. How in the hell is he walking around looking like Freddy Krueger? I died laughing when I saw him.

Shut up James, either come on Tre's side or I hope Pote takes your ass out. How many freaking times has Tre NOT left your ass behind to die? I know it's more than once. 

 

Quote

I also wish the daughter had OD'd.

Good lord does she need to be gone. Is she out of high school? She is so damn immature and dumb/denial, which are one in the same for me. She seriously didn't know what her parents did? She seriously thought her father was out of the business? She should have known what her parents did from grade school, a smart kid would have known a long time ago. I've been around enough of them; you cannot sell them bullshit, no way. Now she's flying all around trying to destroy herself because mommy and daddy aren't who she thought they were, please. 

Edited August 11, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[TigerLynx]

Epi was just plain stupid for not making sure the Colonel was dead.  Epi handing over his business to Boaz will lead others to believe he is weak.  Stupid and weak in the criminal world get you killed.

James won't be loyal to Camilla or Teresa.  He's like the Colonel.  He doesn't like women being in charge, and what really annoys them is Camilla and Teresa are good at what they do.

Teresa made the right moves by meeting with Devin, and getting Camilla the right kind of protection.  James was wrong both times.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Camila's lawyer was all kinds of dumb to be keeping the entire trove of dirt in one place and in his own house. Plus with a password that his wife could guess. I'd have been impressed if it were all fake.

Queen of the New Black? Okay then.

WTF? How could the Colonel still be alive? No half measures, Epi! #gustavofring #same #sorta

[TigerLily20]

I too was frustrated that the Colonel was still alive....I mean I get it he's a big bad but he needs too die already.....he's annoying.  Also my love for Pote grows....Chewbacca lol....

[Chicago Redshirt]

3 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Good lord does she need to be gone. Is she out of high school? She is so damn immature and dumb/denial, which are one in the same for me. She seriously didn't know what her parents did? She seriously thought her father was out of the business? She should have known what her parents did from grade school, a smart kid would have known a long time ago. I've been around enough of them; you cannot sell them bullshit, no way. Now she's flying all around trying to destroy herself because mommy and daddy aren't who she thought they were, please. 

I had thought that Isabella has always known what her parents were about. The only difference was that the violence part was never right in her face until the Colonel was about to kill her mom. 

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

While the legal authorities would not buy Teresa as the sole operator of the drug business. I am sure that an ambitious prosecutor would be happy to make a splash prosecuting Teresa, thereby giving Camila some breathing space so she could regroup. 

It probably wouldn't buy her breathing space, because the authorities would basically say, "Aha, Teresa Mendoza! We have you now! Flip on Camilla and go to witness protection or we'll throw the book at you." And having just been freshly betrayed and knowing how to survive, Teresa would be doing her best gymnast impression, giving names and dates to all sorts of stuff that the feds have no idea about.

If Camilla were not already a target of the DEA for at least a couple years, if Teresa had the means to buy a fishing company at the time of the purported sale  and if Teresa were not a known subordinate of Camilla's, it might make sense. 

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

I had thought that Isabella has always known what her parents were about. The only difference was that the violence part was never right in her face until the Colonel was about to kill her mom. 

Could be, but she surely was under the assumption that because her father had become governor, he was no longer in the business. Then they went to that party and they were singing that song about him and she was pouting all the way home. I didn't take it as she was ashamed that a song like that was written about her father, because it's not true.  I took it as her realizing that, no, you are the Narco Princess just like that kid was teasing you about because your father is still a Kingpin.

Edited August 11, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Dowel Jones]

Teresa should take the trawler out and sink it, collect the insurance, dissolve the company, and buy/lease another with a shell company and offshore money.  Then she's on her own.  She has a deal with Devon, and all she needs do (a tall order, I concede) is get rid of Camila and Epifanio.

[IBeeQueenB]

Why doesn't Camila & Epifanio's daughter have an accent?  That bothers me to no end.

[Chicago Redshirt]

21 hours ago, IBeeQueenB said:

Why doesn't Camila & Epifanio's daughter have an accent?  That bothers me to no end.

Makes sense to me. Epi grew up poor and possibly Camilla too. Isabella went to a posh private school and probably was brought up to talk non-accented English.

[IBeeQueenB]

16 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

Makes sense to me. Epi grew up poor and possibly Camilla too. Isabella went to a posh private school and probably was brought up to talk non-accented English.

Even people who grow up in the US have a hint of a dialect when they study at schools that teach non-accented English, but go home to neighborhoods and family members who primarily speak another language or accented English.  There is NONE of that.  It's just really strange.  Are none of the teachers in this posh school Mexican-born?

That's rhetorical.

Edited August 14, 2017 by IBeeQueenB

[Jade Foxx]

On 8/11/2017 at 3:46 AM, SimoneS said:

Also, I was impressed about how Teresa sussed out Camila's lies in the prison. I thought she would confront her directly, but instead she set a trap and Camila walked right in.

Camila is the truest meaning of "trust no bitch." Damn!

[slf]

I hope Camila dies next season. I'm fairly certain they'll only kill Epifanio this season, which is a pity. The Vargas family has long outlived their usefulness as villains. I've seen people speculate elsewhere that Isabella is being set up to be groomed by her mother, to eventually join the cartel and then run it when her mother dies. I hate that idea with the fire of a thousand suns. I'm sorry but Isabella, as written, is a moron and the actress who plays her is so one-note.

The way I see it the show is setting Teresa up to keep El Santo as a supplier, Devin as a distributor, and King George as the smuggler who'll help her get her drugs to America. If she can get her hands on the book, which is in Camila's office, she'll be set since it also has the location of Epifanio's clean money (IIRC they said ten of millions) as well as information she can leak to rival cartels. Teresa is more of a people person than Camila is, is better at negotiating deals than Camila is, doesn't think every problem should be solved with a gun, and doesn't betray everyone she comes into contact with. Her rise will have setbacks, I'm sure, but this is still going to end with Teresa as the most powerful drug lord in the west. Camila is living on borrowed time.

Not every drug lord trafficks people, not every drug lord constantly sells out their own employees and business partners. Of course there's a lot of jockeying and bloodshed as a result, but no one would last long in that business if they all did that. Camila is unnecessarily violent (that assault on the DEA safehouse back in season one was unbelievably stupid). I can't wait for her to die.

On 8/11/2017 at 0:16 PM, TigerLynx said:

James won't be loyal to Camilla or Teresa.  He's like the Colonel.  He doesn't like women being in charge, and what really annoys them is Camilla and Teresa are good at what they do.

He worked for Camila for years, becoming her right hand man rather than trying to get in with Epifanio or some other cartel leader. (If it was about Camila being stateside then he could've gotten work with the Jiminez cartel.) He was scornful when Guero thanked him for keeping Teresa alive "when I couldn't." He didn't take the Colonel up on his offer to switch sides, either. I think it's just a case of he's spent years serving Camila, catching bullets for her, risking prison for her, and she's been dragging his ass (publicly) and assigning him tasks he feels are beneath him. He's been telling Teresa for two seasons that you can't trust Camila, that "the second you think you know where you're at [with her], the ground shifts underneath you." Despite that I think he became comfortable in his position and thought he was secure only to find out he's just as expendable to her as anyone else. So he lashed out and Teresa took the brunt of it because he damn sure wasn't going to sling that attitude around Camila. Not his finest episode, to be sure. I think in the long run he will leave Camila. Surely it has to occur to him that it could've been his name on the trawler company documents- that Camila would be just as willing to send him to prison to save her own ass.

On 8/11/2017 at 5:46 AM, SimoneS said:

I am always conflicted about Camila. While I admire her toughness and survival instincts, I cannot get over her drugging women so they can be raped. However, I have no problem with her being Teresa's antagonist next season since Epi might not make it with the Colonel out there.

Sometimes I wonder if the writers and showrunner even remember that they had Camila be a sex trafficker who enabled the rapes of at least a dozen girls (and consider: how many times a day were each of those women raped to turn a profit for Camila? Then a week, then a month? Exactly how many rapes did Camila enable for cash?). They really gotta stop trying to sell me on Camila as an Empowered Woman. It's weird that this show considers itself to be feminist because it's kind of a mess on that front.

Edited August 19, 2017 by slf

[Dowel Jones]

No wonder Teresa is headed for Queendom.  She can outlast a full on assault by some professional killers in a ratty old cabin and come out unscathed.  I do hope the DEA agents do some excellent cleanup and inspect all the phones. One should lead back to the guard at the prison, at least. 

Pro tip:  Pote', if you're going to stand guard with your shotgun, you might as well have a round chambered ahead of time.  In a real gunfight, the time it takes you to jack the action back will leave you in second place.

Is this the first real backstory on Teresa's family?  Poor girl, she has lived in the drug world since her childhood, and has those memories of everything.  And the DEA's empty promises of "we'll protect you" only serve to drive her deeper into the life she has created.

[bentley]

I think tonight we saw the nucleus of Teresa's future power base. Pote as the muscle and the female lawyer as legal consultant and also friend to Teresa,. I don't think it's a coincidence that she was "top of her class". The little boy will be Teresa's link to humanity (and will probably have to die horribly somewhere along the way). The only piece missing is a right hand man, and I think that will be James. Although his actions looked suspicious, I think they're supposed to look that way for the moment. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt, because I've seen him save Teresa, and choose Teresa over Camilla, multiple times now. 

I suspect one of the Vargases is going to have to die as a direct or indirect result of Teresa's actions, leaving the other two as her sworn enemies throughout the show. Speaking of....so happy it's been renewed! I've been afraid to look at the ratings for fear they were bad (just based on traffic at this site) but obviously USA likes something it sees.

 

P.S. that little girl playing Young Teresa tonight was a dead ringer. Good casting.

Edited August 18, 2017 by bentley

[TigerLynx]

When Kellyanne bought the sunglasses, gave a pair to Teresa, and told Teresa these were their disguises, my only thought was, "Damn, I hope you all have a better long term plan than that."

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Is this the first real backstory on Teresa's family?  Poor girl, she has lived in the drug world since her childhood, and has those memories of everything.  And the DEA's empty promises of "we'll protect you" only serve to drive her deeper into the life she has created.

No, we knew from season one that her mother died by the hands of drug lords, Teresa has said it. We just never knew the details of how it went down until this episode. 

And I apologize to the blonde who I said a week or two ago was just a trophy wife, which I equate to someone who doesn't have much ambition, at least not the kind of ambition I admire. It didn't help that she was confronting another woman over her loser husband which I also don't like, I hate to see women doing it. If I have to confront another woman over some shitty man then I've hit a low. Instead, just pack your damn bags and leave especially since she actually has a brain and hasn't been tied to him by way of children.

Yeah, she did have ambition, she did achieve something noteworthy other than catching a rich man. She actually wanted to be a power couple with him. Unfortunately, she found out that's not what he wanted and then got sucked  in, like Tre with that loser Guerro.

On another note, Tre needs to get that same crew who she hooked up to protect Camilla in jail, to take her ass out.  Or, just look the other way the next time she gets jumped.

James, let him go Tre, even if he decides to come on your side, execute him. He put a tracker in little Tony's game, no, no.  That was weeks ago when he acted like he had a soft spot for how much Tre cared for that kid and thought he would donate some stuff for him to play with, weeks ago. So weeks ago he was playing her.

Edited August 18, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Joimiaroxeu]

A gunfight at your first communion? That's almost literally baptism by fire. I don't know about all the "queens are born not made" destiny b.s. but Teresa really never stood a chance to have a remotely normal life.

I love how loyal Pote is, even when it's not gaining him anything.

[luckyroll3]

Whatever happened to James' girlfriend?  Did they end their relationship last season?  I just can't remember.

When Teresa said at the end that she's going to go claim what's hers, I was like, "Yaaaas! Get it girl!"  Camila wouldn't have any of the new arrangements currently in place for her business without Teresa's help.  And Teresa was willing to follow her.  Some people always want to demand respect and loyalty without giving the same in return.  Looking forward to hopefully seeing Camila's downfall.  And can her dumb ass daughter just die already?

[slf]

James let me down. Goddamn. If he comes over to Teresa's side she better make him walk through fire before accepting him (pull a Daenerys and send his ass on a near-suicide mission to prove his loyalty).

This sucks tho. Pote is her most loyal friend and he watched Gato rape her and did nothing. Guero's a rat and a limp dick in about five different ways. All the women are at odds (except for Teresa and Kellyanne, but knowing this show that won't last). Now they have James all of a sudden being a punk (after he let the maid live and spared Guero, too- even Camila pointed that out!)? So we're watching a show about a woman who's been outrunning cartels since she was a little girl, who lost her parents and two closests friends to the cartels, who's been raped, abducted, betrayed by the man she loved, betrayed by the man she thought was her friend, and who's going to spend the next few years with only a man who enabled her rape to depend on before she's shot in the head? 

I don't know. They need to give me something in the next two episodes or I might be out.

Edited August 18, 2017 by slf

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

This sucks tho. Pote is her most loyal friend and he watched Gato rape her and did nothing. Guero's a rat and a limp dick in about five different ways. All the women are at odds (except for Teresa and Kellyanne, but knowing this show that won't last). Now they have James all of a sudden being a punk (after he let the maid live and spared Guero, too- even Camila pointed that out!)? So we're watching a show about a woman who's been outrunning cartels since she was a little girl, who lost her parents and two closests friends to the cartels, who's been raped, abducted, betrayed by the man she loved, betrayed by the man she thought was her friend, and who's going to spend the next few years with only a man who enabled her rape to depend on before she's shot in the head? 

I don't know. They need to give me something in the next two episodes or I might be out.

Well don't hold your breath. Tre had to look little Tony in the face and tell him to not even depend on her in life, that he can only truly depend on himself. So, from Pote to even little Tony who eventually won't be so little, I suspect we're in for more disloyalty somewhere down the line. They won't be giving us anything in the way of lasting loyalty and friendship on this show IMO. All any character has is themselves, that's all Tre has, that's all she's had since she was orphaned and that shall continue. As I watched Tony shooting that gun, I wondered if he would be the one to put that bullet in Tre's head in years to come. I keep wondering if somewhere down the line Pote is the one who sets her up because in that flash forward she snorting the product and that's never a good thing if you're the boss. Maybe she gets sloppy because of it and becomes a liability. 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Irlandesa]

On 8/17/2017 at 0:57 PM, slf said:

It's weird that this show considers itself to be feminist because it's kind of a mess on that front.

It's not a show that portrays perfect feminism or feminists but I don't think that's the only definition of a feminist show. Feminism is about equality. So I think it's a feminist show in that its show runner is a woman.  The main two leads are women-one of whom is pretty awful while the other is just sometimes awful.  The women are defined by their struggle for survival, freedom, money and power.  Love is there but it's mostly tangential.  Yes, Camila did awful things, even awful things to women.  She may not be a feminist but the fact that she's there is a feminist move. 

17 hours ago, bentley said:

peaking of....so happy it's been renewed! I've been afraid to look at the ratings for fear they were bad (just based on traffic at this site) but obviously USA likes something it sees.

Posts don't necessarily have anything to do with ratings. For instance, Mr. Robot has episode episode threads for every episode with multiple pages yet QotS S2 has approximately 400,000  more viewers and does .08 better in the demo compared to Mr. Robot S2.   I would imagine USA is very pleased with the ratings for QotS considering they're pretty steady compared to S1. 

[slf]

2 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's not a show that portrays perfect feminism or feminists but I don't think that's the only definition of a feminist show. Feminism is about equality. So I think it's a feminist show in that its show runner is a woman.  The main two leads are women-one of whom is pretty awful while the other is just sometimes awful.  The women are defined by their struggle for survival, freedom, money and power.  Love is there but it's mostly tangential.  Yes, Camila did awful things, even awful things to women.  She may not be a feminist but the fact that she's there is a feminist move. 

I agree that the show supports women in terms of its cast and crew, certainly. But I've seen some tweets from the writers, some article and comments on the official website that Camila is meant to be Empowering. That's what I'm disagreeing with. A show where almost all the women are at odds/trying to kill each other, are constantly being screwed over by every man, etc. I've seen shows written by mostly men with male show runners that have done much better in terms of what actually happens on screen. Hell, the source material is pretty great on that front so I'm not sure why they deviated from it so much (something which really disappointed Alice Braga since they made the choice to do so after she had already signed on). 

8 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

Well don't hold your breath. Tre had to look little Tony in the face and tell him to not even depend on her in life, that he can only truly depend on himself. So, from Pote to even little Tony who eventually won't be so little, I suspect we're in for more disloyalty somewhere down the line. They won't be giving us anything in the way of lasting loyalty and friendship on this show IMO. 

I know that's the route they might go I just think it's stupid.

[Irlandesa]

50 minutes ago, slf said:

something which really disappointed Alice Braga since they made the choice to do so after she had already signed on

I'm curious about what Alice has said. 

[TigerLynx]

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm curious about what Alice has said. 

I would like to know to.  I was looking forward to Teresa heading her own crew.  If it's just going to be Teresa running from Camilla, Epi, etc., and constantly trusting the wrong people only to be betrayed by them, I have seen enough of that.  I would like to see Teresa actually be in charge, and winning a few battles.  With all that has happened with the Colonel, Camilla, James, Epi, other drug dealers, etc., it should be set up for conflicts between several groups.

[slf]

12 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I'm curious about what Alice has said. 

It's this interview here, here's the relevant part:

"It is based on a novel by Arturo Pérez-Reverte, this wonderful Spanish writer. I read the book eight years ago. A really good friend of mine gave me the book, and she said, "You need to read this book because it's a beautiful, strong story about this woman. Maybe she's a nice character for you to play, but just read it." The years went by and they did the telenovela version in Spanish, and I was happy that they made it, because I always thought it was such a beautiful character for a woman to play. When they called me, I couldn't believe that eight years after I had read the book and loved the character, they came to me. It was very special. It was funny because Blindness, which is based on the book by José Saramago, was also a book that I loved, so when they invited me it was the same feeling. For Queen of the South, my main [reason] to sign up for it was the character and the book, because that was a journey I really wanted to play. So right after I got cast, I went straight to the book and made notes, getting all the little details about what people say about her, who she is, what type of woman she is in the world that she's born, how she manages to survive—all that. Just trying to honor the book and have a better understanding of it. I have an acting coach that helps me. He works with me on preparing—running lines and having ideas and developing different ways of approaching characters.

They decided afterwards to change the course of the story. They got the inspiration from the book—this character Teresa Mendoza that goes from being the girlfriend of a drug dealer to running for her life. She escapes from the Sinoloa Cartel in Mexico. In the book she goes to Spain, and in the series she goes to the U.S. Because the writers decided to change the journey of the character, I sat down with them and said, "The character that I want to play is the character that's in the book. That's my passion. So I'm going to base how she would respond to these new things that you guys are creating on little notes and details that Arturo Pérez-Reverte wrote." I really went to the book all the time to get little details that I love about her, like she never victimizes herself, she's someone that listens more than she speaks, that observes a lot and has a very beautiful inner strength. She could have died; anything could have happened throughout her whole life. She was sexually abused. She comes from very poor circumstances. Those little details of her life I tried to honor. Whatever they wrote, my main source of preparation was the book."

While she doesn't flat out say she's disappointed....it's kind of all over that. I got a laugh out of her saying she went to the writers and told them "okay you aren't following the book, you're writing things differently, but I'm still gonna play her the way she is in the book." Because that's just so...ballsy. But also it must suck to have loved a character for eight years, get offered the chance to play her, sign a contract, and then have them say "actually, we're changing things around." 

ETA: Oh wait. I thought it was that interview because I remembered her talking about her journey to getting the role but it was actually this one with Parade:

"Kate del Castillo did an amazing job in La Reina Del Sur. I love her work in it. Unfortunately, they decided to not follow the book on this version. They created a new journey for the character, so it’s very different than La Reina Del Sur. The character still has the same name and the same initial journey, but the tasks are completely different. The character itself I based on the book and that’s the character that I try to play, but her journey and the facts in her life are completely different than Kate’s series."

You can tell this character means a lot to her, that she's put so much thought into how to play her and stay as true to the original character as possible. I admire how candid she is without being insulting.

Edited August 19, 2017 by slf

[TigerLily20]

I am sad that this show is almost over, I feel like this has been a good season, and my love for Pote just continues to grow......

[slf]

Getting the coke back from James was almost too easy. Methinks something else is going on and Teresa's gonna have to deal with that in the finale and prove herself a serious rival to Camila. Either way, we know El Santo doesn't kill her.

Okay, Camila is associated with/responsible for the deaths of at least six federal agents now (three in the DEA safehouse, the corrupt one, and the two marshals), potentially seven (Tex), and the shooting of one more (Loya) and as far as I can tell the entire series has so far happened in under five months, maybe four. There's no way in hell Camila could ever come back to the US without being in a world of shit and any operation she has in the states is going to be constantly under threat. Why would anyone want to go into business with her when she takes such unnecessarily violent risks? Yeah, cartels don't have a great history of non-violent methods but six dead feds in one American state in less than twenty weeks is nuts. And exactly what was her plan for once she was broken out of custody, anyway? Walking around Dallas wasn't an option- I don't recall her saying she intended to forfeit her business in Dallas and return to Mexico.

James is comin' off like an idiot, tbh. Camila will throw anyone except maybe her daughter under the bus and he's still going to follow her? Once she got thrown back in prison by being stupid enough to go after Teresa he should've cut his losses. There's loyalty then there's this. Maybe Guero was right, maybe Camila did take his balls. All I know is when Guero comes off as more intelligent then you've got problems. He should have taken Teresa's offer. 

I'm happy the show had Teresa say what she did to Pote. He never had to prove his loyalty to her, just "I'm not the worst guy in the world, you know, you don't have to point a gun at me" last season and bam he was her number two. Also he tends to forget what Teresa has accomplished and survived.

Enjoyed the neo-Nazi getting shot in the dick. Very timely.

Edited August 27, 2017 by slf

[TigerLynx]

I really need for one or both of the Vargases, James or the Colonel to die.  This is getting ridiculous.  I doubt it will happen, but if they wanted to kill off the teen idiots, that's okay to.

Teresa actually has a good selling point when she tells people she will run a more stable business that doesn't put them all in jeopardy all the time, but she has to deliver.

I think I maybe done.  This show just keeps going in circles, and I am really really tired of Camilla and the Colonel.  One dead Vargas is not enough.

Edited September 1, 2017 by TigerLynx

[Chicago Redshirt]

Have to say that I wasn't super impressed with the finale. Pretty much every single character should have been killed but wasn't because of plot armor/straight-up stupidity.

Yes Pote, you're a bad-ass with a heart of gold. That still doesn't mean you can go charging into a scenario with like 8 gang-bangers to one of you and expect to come out on top.

Camilla, Cortez literally tried to murder you several times against your late husband's wishes. In what world do you not gun him down? Him bringing the kidnapper of your daughter shouldn't be enough to save him.

Teresa, Pote tells you that if you let Camilla live, she'll kill you. You know that she was about to kill you anyway before all this started. Before you stole a METRIC TON of coke from her. Before you were responsible for the death of her husband. You're really going to let her live?

James and Guero,one of you just f'ing shoot the other. Please. Yes, we get that you both want to bone Teresa and on some level T wants to bone each of you. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't shoot the other when your ongoing survival dependson it.

[Keepitmoving]

Quote

Have to say that I wasn't super impressed with the finale. Pretty much every single character should have been killed but wasn't because of plot armor/straight-up stupidity.

Me neither, you gotta be like HBO, they tend to do a pretty good job of knocking off characters no matter how major the character is on the show. If it makes sense for them to go, they get cut. The only thing I noticed that could excuse her not killing Camilla is that her heart is not yet as cold as it needs to be as she has yet to completely taken over the throne. Also, it seemed like she was having a PTSD flashback when she saw the daughter crying over Epifano. The look on her face, she looked a bit frozen as if she was thinking about when her mother was shot.

Don't even get me started on Guero not  killing James, don't even, WTF?

You kill these people off and you just get knew adversaries period.

And worse of all Camilla's daughter is still alive, ugh. 

Edited September 1, 2017 by Keepitmoving

[Joimiaroxeu]

Well, I didn't hate the season finale so that's something, I guess. I am disappointed that Camilla is still alive. She's made one bad decision after another and doesn't really justify the Queen title, IMO. Probably her biggest mistake was not killing Teresa early on. I never understood why she took Teresa under her wing. Whatever, the show seems to be well set up for some good storylines in the second season where we'll see who remains loyal to whom.

Edited September 1, 2017 by Joimiaroxeu

[Chicago Redshirt]

With the exceptions of underestimating Teresa and sexing up her lawyer, I don't know that Camilla has made any really bad moves.  Teresa had plenty of benefits to keep around. I mean, almost all of Camilla's success since the show has begun is due at least in part to Teresa. Sexing up the lawyer is a bad call on the "so many better fish in the sea, Camillita" front and also because it kicked off revelations that Camilla had set Teresa up, which put them at odds. If Camilla had just kept it in her pants, Teresa would almost surely not thought of trying to pull a coup. She's too loyal and good. But when basically put in the position that she could either die or rebel, of course she's going to choose to rebel.

My prediction (assuming the show lasts long enough to go full circle and show us who was gunning down Queen Teresa and Pote) is that Isabella is the responsible party after Teresa also takes Camilla down.

[wilful]

In the last scene, where Teresa is on the boat - she pushes up her sleeve and exposes a new tattoo.   Mayacayolgin.  Anyone have any idea what that means?

[Dowel Jones]

I figured it to be some sort of ID, sort of like the long departed Kwai Chang Caine of Kung Fu fame.  All she has to do is show it when the chips are down and people will recognize her as one of El Santo's cartel.

[slf]

On 9/1/2017 at 3:14 PM, Chicago Redshirt said:

With the exceptions of underestimating Teresa and sexing up her lawyer, I don't know that Camilla has made any really bad moves.  Teresa had plenty of benefits to keep around. I mean, almost all of Camilla's success since the show has begun is due at least in part to Teresa. Sexing up the lawyer is a bad call on the "so many better fish in the sea, Camillita" front and also because it kicked off revelations that Camilla had set Teresa up, which put them at odds. If Camilla had just kept it in her pants, Teresa would almost surely not thought of trying to pull a coup. She's too loyal and good. But when basically put in the position that she could either die or rebel, of course she's going to choose to rebel.

I would say the way she handled Epifanio throughout season one was idiotic. He's a very image-conscious man running for public office while trying to secretly keep a hold of his cartel, he's also very sexist- she's his wife and she left him. She left him to go run her own business and thought he'd support her, provide her with product and protect her from her enemies. Why exactly would he choose to support Camila's business after she left him and made it clear she wasn't coming back? Out of the kindness of his heart? And frankly I always thought she was an idiot for not realizing sooner it was Epifanio who ratted her out to the DEA (she suspected everyone, including Teresa, before figuring it out). The assault on the DEA safehouse was stupid. I think anything that results in the deaths of three federal agents is a bad idea in general. Cartels get violent, absolutely, but most drug traffickers stateside don't make a point of killing every fed they come across and by my count five feds have been shot in less than twelve weeks by Camila's crew, three died (maybe four). That's pretty dumb, especially when she was dealing with sabotage from her husband, feuding with at least one other cartel, and was often out of product and losing customers (that happened at least twice that I can recall). Sleeping with the lawyer was stupid for other reasons including him being under investigation by the DEA and married- that was a time bomb of a situation and was solely of her own creation. Of course the angry wife was going to work with the feds to get the "other woman" arrested, of course she was going to go digging into her husband's papers- she's a housewife, she's there all the time and has access to his office. Not to mention she herself is a lawyer and so would be able to understand how incriminating those papers were. Such a dumb situation and all because, what? Her feelings got hurt by Epifanio sleeping with someone else after she signed the divorce papers? Oy. Now working with the cartel guy? That hilariously stupid press conference where she plays the victim less than 72 hours after two federal agents were murdered to break her out of custody? She's the QOTS equivalent of Cersei. She thinks she's some brilliant strategist who's only been held back by the patriarchy when in reality she's not good with people, is easily goaded, and has poor instincts; she's survived largely because she has a lot of money (and Epifanio), has highly competent people around her to make her bad calls work (or did, she doesn't have Teresa, James, and Pote anymore), and she's willing to be more violent than everyone else.

Edited September 3, 2017 by slf

[Arwen Evenstar]

I just love how scrappy Teresa is.  She's got 9 lives for sure. Every show has me wondering just how she'll get herself out of the next scrape she finds herself in. I find Pote's loyalty to her to be endearing, and he's always there to save the day.

Though none of the characters are nice people that you'd want to have over for Sundaybdinner, Camila is pure evil. I do, however, think wardrobe has done a fantastic job with herl She's always impeccably dressed in stylish, age appropriate clothing that also flatters her curvy figure and petite stature. I wanted just about every outfit she wore.

The show has a lot of disconnects as many back stories from the original series are likely not told.  Teresa is trying t escape the wrath of Camila, but has time to buy a new wardrobe and get a tattoo before she sails away? Some things just don't make sense.

[slf]

5 hours ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

The show has a lot of disconnects as many back stories from the original series are likely not told.  Teresa is trying t escape the wrath of Camila, but has time to buy a new wardrobe and get a tattoo before she sails away? Some things just don't make sense.

The wardrobe thing always makes me laugh on this show. The tattoo, however, we saw her get when she and Pote went to the store where the little girl was; she inked Teresa herself. That's why Teresa had the bandage on her arm when she faced off with Epifanio and Camila.

[TigerLynx]

12 hours ago, slf said:

I would say the way she handled Epifanio throughout season one was idiotic. He's a very image-conscious man running for public office while trying to secretly keep a hold of his cartel, he's also very sexist- she's his wife and she left him. She left him to go run her own business and thought he'd support her, provide her with product and protect her from her enemies. Why exactly would he choose to support Camila's business after she left him and made it clear she wasn't coming back? Out of the kindness of his heart? And frankly I always thought she was an idiot for not realizing sooner it was Epifanio who ratted her out to the DEA (she suspected everyone, including Teresa, before figuring it out). The assault on the DEA safehouse was stupid. I think anything that results in the deaths of three federal agents is a bad idea in general. Cartels get violent, absolutely, but most drug traffickers stateside don't make a point of killing every fed they come across and by my count five feds have been shot in less than twelve weeks by Camila's crew, three died (maybe four). That's pretty dumb, especially when she was dealing with sabotage from her husband, feuding with at least one other cartel, and was often out of product and losing customers (that happened at least twice that I can recall). Sleeping with the lawyer was stupid for other reasons including him being under investigation by the DEA and married- that was a time bomb of a situation and was solely of her own creation. Of course the angry wife was going to work with the feds to get the "other woman" arrested, of course she was going to go digging into her husband's papers- she's a housewife, she's there all the time and has access to his office. Not to mention she herself is a lawyer and so would be able to understand how incriminating those papers were. Such a dumb situation and all because, what? Her feelings got hurt by Epifanio sleeping with someone else after she signed the divorce papers? Oy. Now working with the cartel guy? That hilariously stupid press conference where she plays the victim less than 72 hours after two federal agents were murdered to break her out of custody? She's the QOTS equivalent of Cersei. She thinks she's some brilliant strategist who's only been held back by the patriarchy when in reality she's not good with people, is easily goaded, and has poor instincts; she's survived largely because she has a lot of money (and Epifanio), has highly competent people around her to make her bad calls work (or did, she doesn't have Teresa, James, and Pote anymore), and she's willing to be more violent than everyone else.

I don't understand why Camilla decided to set up Teresa to be the fall guy.  Teresa had been loyal and helpful.  There should have been other options.  Now Camilla is willing to work with the Colonel a guy who tried to kill her several times.

I also don't understand why Teresa and Pote immediately assumed the gang stole the drugs either.  Why didn't they test it when they stole it from James?  Now Teresa has started a war with the people she was trying to go into business with.  Then Teresa kills Epi, but leaves Camilla alive.

Either James or Guerro, or both should be dead.

[Dowel Jones]

I would like to know where they found the 1000 kilos of flour or whatever it was, and had the time to wrap it up in exactly the same plastic bags as the real cocaine.