S05.E09: Trust

[Lily247]

On 6/9/2017 at 9:12 AM, Drogo said:

Danielle just has high standards and a very specific idea of how a man should act. 

For example, she wants to get on a city bus one morning and find out there's a bomb on it and she has to keep it above 50mph after the driver's been shot or the bomb will explode. And she wants to marry the SWAT officer who helps her through the ordeal and saves her life. 

Happens everyday.

I think by "manly man" she was meaning a man who puts her in her place and doesnt take any sh*t from her, and doesnt try to please her all the time in every way, but instead has expectations of how she should please him. Also, someone who takes charge on a regular basis on nuances of daily life ( paperwork, fixing things, social plans) and has an aggressive, almost arrogant air about him. Someone who wont passively aggresively be a jerk but be a straigt up jerk sometimes. Because sometimes that is how "the spark" and chemistry just work. 

[Jack Sampson]

2 minutes ago, Matias130 said:

I think by "manly man" she was meaning a man who puts her in her place and doesnt take any sh*t from her, and doesnt try to please her all the time in every way, but instead has expectations of how she should please him. Also, someone who takes charge on a regular basis on nuances of daily life ( paperwork, fixing things, social plans) and has an aggressive, almost arrogant air about him. Someone who wont passively aggresively be a jerk but be a straigt up jerk sometimes. Because sometimes that is how "the spark" and chemistry just work. 

She sounds like a very damaged woman.  If only there were mental health experts on this show to screen out people like her...

[roseslg]

3 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

She sounds like a very damaged woman.  If only there were mental health experts on this show to screen out people like her...

Well, we do have the esteemed experts...

[Agnetha]

2 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

She sounds like a very damaged woman.  If only there were mental health experts on this show to screen out people like her...

I don't think she has any mental health problems, but she has a really odd notion of how a man should be like (and this is not about Cody). It doesn't help that she has a dominating personality and is pretty set in her ways. Like there is no reflection along the lines of "Ok, maybe my definition of a man is too rigid", all you get is defensiveness. Her last relationship apparently ended because she had to push the guy out of his comfort zone and had to show him things (she wants a guy who comes up with new ideas etc. himself). I don't have a problem with her way of thinking per se. If she wants to be an adventurer, so be it. I just don't get why she was desperate enough to go on MAFS. 

[Lily247]

Just now, Jack Sampson said:

She sounds like a very damaged woman.  If only there were mental health experts on this show to screen out people like her...

Idk... I wouldnt say damaged. I think that a lot of women crave a guy like that. They want an "Alpha male" not a passive or "Beta male". I think that Type A women go more for beta men and more submissive type women like Alpha men. I think that Danielle seems like a very normal woman, she happens to always speak with a calm, collected air,  and she seems to be very organized and meticulous with her daily things, which are qualities that I think are important. 

Just now, Agnetha said:

I don't think she has any mental health problems, but she has a really odd notion of how a man should be like (and this is not about Cody). It doesn't help that she has a dominating personality and is pretty set in her ways. Like there is no reflection along the lines of "Ok, maybe my definition of a man is too rigid", all you get is defensiveness. Her last relationship apparently ended because she had to push the guy out of his comfort zone and had to show him things (she wants a guy who comes up with new ideas etc. himself). I don't have a problem with her way of thinking per se. If she wants to be an adventurer, so be it. I just don't get why she was desperate enough to go on MAFS. 

Yea, I agree. I think that typically type A women dont mind a man who is more passive. The problem is that she is type A and she also wants a type A man. I think that the kind of man she wants would prefer a woman who is more easygoing, go with the flow, willing to change and learn new things. However - this is only from the few minutes of edited TV we see with these people, I dont really know them  myself ! 

[humbleopinion]

Cody's Gym

https://getfitrockfordblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/15/367/

Think Cody's the guy in the board shorts with the grey vertical stripe and the guy on the right in the lower photo.

If those are representative of his cliente...he needs to suggest more frequent and rigorous workouts..no judgements or body shaming here...

 

Out of all the M@FS men...Danielle wouldn't have stayed married to but would have banged early and often with criminal intent Hundy Ryan because he is a manly man in a felonious, stranger danger way...

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

My guess is that mb 30 they have so much baggage...baby mommas and kids...they are out of the running.  The successful, well polished ones are long gone.

I wonder why she hasn't found 'love on her own'?  She's pretty, well put together and has a great job.  Does she act like this with all men?  Has she been around the block too many times?  What's her problem that she's 30 and single and still looking for love?

When they were checking out her apartment did no one notice the amount of booze she had in her place? IMO she is a party girl that has been around the block a few times or so. As well as Danielle comes off more high maintenance than Ashley ever could be. Even my husband said there isn't something right about her at all. I think with Danielle it wouldn't matter the kind of guy she got matched with either. If he was to aggressive she would push back and if he isn't aggressive enough she pushes back too. Either way unless she is hot for him its just not going to work. She wasn't into Cody the second she saw him. She said she didn't feel it on their wedding day. That is fine and dandy. It sucks how editing has been done because he was making people think she wanted sex with him when really she could care less it wasn't happening since she feels no chemistry with him at all. He tried a few times but in the end has been turned down. Poor Cody can't win though here because first it was he wasn't giving her sex or trying (when he really had) and now its he isn't doing other things to prove his worth. The preview scene of him asking about wanting to be married or not will have a shit edit of course because this show has a horrible edit crew (ie: Nate/Mom scene). They will more than likely edit it in her favor though I am betting and not his. At least this is how it has been so far. I don't think this is one of those compare to past casts. Heather got the screw job big time and its probably because she walked out on the marriage after the shit that went on (that we didn't get to see). Which I know I was a Heather supporter and was glad she stood her ground on walking out. If she hadn't she probably would have need some major therapy like Neil had after dealing with Sam. Atlanta Ashley was just a cold dead fish that shouldn't have been on the show and was for the wrong reasons....she didn't like David from his looks alone. IMO its not always the women that the viewers are harder on. There was a ton of crap given to David just as much as Ashley got. That whole thing situation though continuing like it did was more because the show and "experts" not ending it when they should have and pushing it to go on. Neil got crap his season from some for not doing more...hell I'm surprised he didn't get called names as much as Cody has been. Tres has had been trashed left and right with some comments towards Vanessa....which IMO she got the shit end on that. Last season it was a mix bag aside from Heather getting trashed as much as she had by some. I don't know how it was the first 2 seasons here or other places. I just watched the shows but didn't get on her until Atlanta. Which season 2 to me I rather not talk about. I couldn't stand any of them at all. Now with this season, I am not seeing Ashley as high maintenance at this point and don't see much else really said on her or Anthony. Sheila and Nate both have issues but I have major side eye towards him. Cody I think has gotten the shit end with editing so far while Danielle is not all she is cracked up to be and her edit job has been more in her favor. I just think if they had discussed things more, especially when the sex topic came up on the honeymoon, that they could have just gone on as friends hanging out and maybe it wouldn't have been so awkward like. While he has done a bunch of things to show he helps out and wants to be a good husband, what has she done to show she could be a good wife? If she isn't in it at all, then say so instead of acting like you want to try. 

1 minute ago, humbleopinion said:

If those are representative of his cliente...he needs to suggest more frequent and rigorous workouts..no judgements or body shaming here...

 

Not saying you are body shaming or anything but this is a reason some don't go to regular gyms. Getting told how they need to go more often or do harder workouts because of weight they have on. Its a good way to make those people walk out the door and not come back. I will bet he has one of the few gyms in this world that is targeted towards people overweight and want a place to go workout without being judged by others. 

[humbleopinion]

Now that you mentioned booze...noticed how much liquor was on the Duhon's kitchen counter.

Niche gyms are the way to go in a crowded fitness field.

Probably personal training is their bread and butter.

[gonecrackers]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Either way unless she is hot for him its just not going to work. She wasn't into Cody the second she saw him. She said she didn't feel it on their wedding day. That is fine and dandy. It sucks how editing has been done because he was making people think she wanted sex with him when really she could care less it wasn't happening since she feels no chemistry with him at all. He tried a few times but in the end has been turned down.

THIS.  I do think Cody is jumping to do anything he can to look good in her eyes, & is always failing. I think it's unfair of her to continually act like there's a chance when clearly there isn't. Danielle needs to stop being so passive aggressive with him & let him off the damn hook already. She's not attracted, fine; she should just say it. They can have a convo w/o cameras & decide to friend it for the time left.

Neither one of them should have done this 'experiment'. Cody is clearly too young & Danielle said 'chemistry' is very important to her, which she should have known cannot be determined on paper. But she took the risk anyway, so now she should be totally honest with the experts, the viewers, & especially, with Cody.

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

Not saying you are body shaming or anything but this is a reason some don't go to regular gyms. Getting told how they need to go more often or do harder workouts because of weight they have on. Its a good way to make those people walk out the door and not come back. I will bet he has one of the few gyms in this world that is targeted towards people overweight and want a place to go workout without being judged by others. 

Agreed. I think if Cody is running a gym where overweight or even obese people feel comfortable, & he'll even include them in his pictures, that says something good about him. Usually gyms are such 'meat lockers', as a guy I worked for years ago (who was a name gym regular) used to say.

Edited June 10, 2017 by gonecrackers

[okerry]

3 hours ago, Matias130 said:

Idk... I wouldnt say damaged. I think that a lot of women crave a guy like that. They want an "Alpha male" not a passive or "Beta male". I think that Type A women go more for beta men and more submissive type women like Alpha men.

Thank you. My thoughts exactly. 

High-powered, aggressive, bossy women actually do better with beta types who don't mind being told what to do. Picture Bernadette and Howard from *Big Bang Theory.*  

While more low-key women are happy with the alphas because these women enjoy a man who will take the lead - not being a tyrant, just taking the lead, the way a man is supposed to lead a ballroom dance. That's Amy from *Big Bang Theory.* Even though Sheldon's not exactly an alpha, he is in Amy's eyes and that's why she's happy when he occasionally shows some alpha-type behaviour.

[ridethemaverick]

D&C are exhausting to watch. I wanted to give him a hug when she was watching him fiddle with the drill and he was undoubtedly feeling more and more pressure to be a man for her. Put these two out of their misery, show.

A lot has been made about Cody's vocal fry but Ashley does it too and it grates. I know I'm in the minority on this but she and Anthony seem equally matched, looks wise. I know blonde hair and blue eyes mean a lot in some communities (for lack of a better description) so perhaps that's part of the reason some think she's way hotter than he is. Maybe? Beyond that, they're cute together but kinda zzzzz.

N&S are almost enjoyable to watch lately. They seem to have fun and they're definitely into each other. Nate actually made me giggle with his yoga commentary. I'm still keeping one eye on him though. Something about him rings false but we'll see.

Edited June 11, 2017 by ridethemaverick

[Drogo]

9 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

Dro...Can't get the picture of you and Khaleesi doing the Flying Bow pose outta my head.....

My Khaleesi is 10 years old and I'm 6'2" 230lb, so that Flying Bow pose would be accompanied by "Timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!"

[Drogo]

Quick reminder: any media info from outside the episode is considered a spoiler and belongs in the Spoiler thread.  

[MsPH]

22 hours ago, Drogo said:

I can't believe it; Nate is my favorite person on this show.

Strangely enough I'm starting to feel the same way. He gave me strong douchebag vibes in the beginning, but now I actually believe he really does like Sheila and wants to be a good husband to her. Whether he'll succeed remains to be seen of course, but at least he's trying and seems capable of stepping up and "being a man" when necessary. I think he seems surprisingly mature for his age, yet still has that boyish energy, and I think Sheila's starting to appreciate it much to her own surprise. As long as his mother stays out of it, they might have a good chance. Clearly there are feelings there if Sheila feels committed enough to change her name at this stage.

Cody's inability to find out the wedding time was pissing me off more than Danielle. It's not like it was some huge task he needed to make time for, it took like two minutes and one text. If she needed to ask him about it 10 times before he did anything then what's gonna happen when it's something that takes actual effort? I'm a bit of a procrastinator myself, but that kind of foot-dragging is beyond my comprehension. He clearly knew she was annoyed before she said anything since he was trying to think of excuses. I don't blame her for being turned off at this point. I'm glad Cody likes doing chores, but if he thinks Danielle's idea of a manly leader is someone who cleans up after her, then he's even more clueless than I imagined. I did feel sorry for him with the drill, since it clearly wasn't his idea or his drill, but watching him do anything at this point gives me anxiety. I think he's one of those people who needs to have everything taught otherwise he has no hope of getting it right. That's probably why he's blaming his dad not teaching him stuff for his general cluelessness. I'm not into particularly manly men myself, but I'd still have a hard time being attracted to Cody. Danielle needs to put him out of his misery already though, since there's no hope in hell she'll change her mind about him.

Ashley has the potential to be exhausting, but I'm hoping it's just insecurity and will settle down naturally over time. So what if Anthony didn't love his first pedicure? Most adults can get through a slightly uncomfortable experience without losing their sh*t, as shocking as that may be.

[humbleopinion]

Danielle...you don't have a ghost.

One of your shared wall neighbors has  a remote that can turn on/off your TV.

Anthony's 2 dinners looked delish.

Chicken breast over Brussels sprouts.

Stuffed bell pepper so hot that they had a hard time talking and eating.

[Snarklepuss]

10 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

THIS.  I do think Cody is jumping to do anything he can to look good in her eyes, & is always failing. I think it's unfair of her to continually act like there's a chance when clearly there isn't. Danielle needs to stop being so passive aggressive with him & let him off the damn hook already. She's not attracted, fine; she should just say it. They can have a convo w/o cameras & decide to friend it for the time left.

Season after season we see one member of a couple obviously not into the other that stays in the relationship even when it's obvious that they're just going through the motions.  All this means to me is that production strongly encourages them do it even when it's obvious to the audience that they're never going to be interested in their husband/wife.  The only person completely unwilling to do that was Heather and she backed out of the show early in order not to have to put herself through that kind of torture.  I don't doubt that behind the scenes Danielle has leveled with Cody and he with her, and both of them are just going through with this charade so that there's a show to film, even though they are both very aware and open with each other about how it's not really going anywhere.  It's very misleading to the audience because in their talking heads we are lead to believe that the couple is still "hanging in there" and genuinely hopeful about things working out, when this is obviously not true.  I am wise to this by now because I find it just so obviously incongruent with everything else about the relationship that we can see with our own eyes.  I am very convinced of this after several seasons of watching this show because I get the same feeling over and over again to varying degrees.  Of course in many cases I don't also get the feeling that either member of a couple was open with each other about their real feelings, such as David's Ashley who couldn't care less and never bothered to give him the courtesy of the truth.  But even David's Ashley "went through the motions" to act to the camera like she was "still giving things a chance".  Meanwhile we all knew it was total BS.  Again, I think this lying to the camera and continuing with what they know is a doomed relationship is what production wants them to do so the audience stays tuned in.  Otherwise they wouldn't have a show.  And Danielle and Cody are far from the first people on this show to comply with this.

[Snarklepuss]

12 hours ago, Matias130 said:

Idk... I wouldnt say damaged. I think that a lot of women crave a guy like that. They want an "Alpha male" not a passive or "Beta male". I think that Type A women go more for beta men and more submissive type women like Alpha men. I think that Danielle seems like a very normal woman, she happens to always speak with a calm, collected air,  and she seems to be very organized and meticulous with her daily things, which are qualities that I think are important. 

Yea, I agree. I think that typically type A women dont mind a man who is more passive. The problem is that she is type A and she also wants a type A man. I think that the kind of man she wants would prefer a woman who is more easygoing, go with the flow, willing to change and learn new things. However - this is only from the few minutes of edited TV we see with these people, I dont really know them  myself ! 

No way, no how is Danielle a "dominant woman".  I will gladly burn my master's diploma in Psychology if I am wrong.  The only reason she is looking that way is because Cody is coming off to her as such a total puss.  She is only trying to compensate for his lack of dominance by assuming some of it in the relationship to restore the balance of power/give/take in the relationship to her satisfaction.  In other words, she assuming that role because he's NOT doing it and she feels that SOMEONE has to pick up the slack!  But IMO NO WAY, NO HOW is she comfortable in that role!  I feel for her every time I see it!  Believe me, if Cody really were matched with an extreme dominant Alpha female, he'd be cowering in the corner by now in the fetal position crying for his mommy!  Or maybe he would like that!  If he really is that submissive he might actually love a woman who wants to boss him around and be dominant to him.  I think what is uncomfortable for him is that Danielle doesn't seem to want someone who wants to be dominated!  If she loved that he might be very happy with that situation!

And actually, in my experience, Alpha women usually go for Alpha men, just not the ones that want a woman to be their submissive.  Dominance and submission seem to be only loosely related to the Alpha/Beta concept so it doesn't always work out that Alphas are looking to dominate someone pure and simple and Betas are looking to be dominated.  I think people rarely fit into the generalizations to the extreme definition of each.  I have known people that do (such as the Howard/Bernadette example plus my own parents where my mother was A and dad B) but in most cases it's a shades of gray situation.  In general, I am what people would consider an Alpha woman and my husband is also Alpha but we both have certain beta aspects that provide a nice level of give and take and no clear dominant/submissive partner.  So I personally find generalizing about this in every case to be a little simplistic for my taste.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[MsPH]

5 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Season after season we see one member of a couple obviously not into the other that stays in the relationship even when it's obvious that they're just going through the motions.  All this means to me is that production strongly encourages them do it even when it's obvious to the audience that they're never going to be interested in their husband/wife.  The only person completely unwilling to do that was Heather and she backed out of the show early in order not to have to put herself through that kind of torture.  I don't doubt that behind the scenes Danielle has leveled with Cody and he with her, and both of them are just going through with this charade so that there's a show to film, even though they are both very aware and open with each other about how it's not really going anywhere.  It's very misleading to the audience because in their talking heads we are lead to believe that the couple is still "hanging in there" and genuinely hopeful about things working out, when this is obviously not true.  I am wise to this by now because I find it just so obviously incongruent with everything else about the relationship that we can see with our own eyes.  I am very convinced of this after several seasons of watching this show because I get the same feeling over and over again to varying degrees.  Of course in many cases I don't also get the feeling that either member of a couple was open with each other about their real feelings, such as David's Ashley who couldn't care less and never bothered to give him the courtesy of the truth.  But even David's Ashley "went through the motions" to act to the camera like she was "still giving things a chance".  Meanwhile we all knew it was total BS.  Again, I think this lying to the camera and continuing with what they know is a doomed relationship is what production wants them to do so the audience stays tuned in.  Otherwise they wouldn't have a show.  And Danielle and Cody are far from the first people on this show to comply with this.

 

I don't think they've agreed to go through the motions yet. Cody seems to still be trying, in his own way, and in that conversation at the end of the episode when he told her he's trying and asked if a part of her doesn't want them to work out, he started welling up. Reminded me of a little kid who's just realised he's not getting the toy he's been asking for for months. It felt very real to me. I kind of feel sorry for him, but on the other hand, they're just a horrible match and will both be much happier with someone else. Danielle needs someone older than her who's more experienced and will naturally take charge without having to be nagged into it. Cody needs someone younger who doesn't yet have a set idea of what she wants and who will look up to him as the more wordly one, OR someone dominant who's totally fine with having a lapdog. Maybe he should've been married to Angie the bridesmaid instead.

[Drogo]

1 hour ago, MsPH said:

. Cody seems to still be trying, in his own way, and in that conversation at the end of the episode when he told her he's trying and asked if a part of her doesn't want them to work out, he started welling up. Reminded me of a little kid who's just realised he's not getting the toy he's been asking for for months. It felt very real to me. I kind of feel sorry for him, but on the other hand, they're just a horrible match and will both be much happier with someone else.

I think Cody just wants someone to love him and who he can love in return. 

Regarding his gym and clientele, I recall a high-school photo of him in his parents' house and he was shlumpy.. so I could see why running a transformative gym and not a meatlocker would feed his soul. 

[gonecrackers]

I'm not giving Cody a pass on his 'Friday night Cody' & his had sex 'every night' comments, which were either lies or immature 'saving face' type comments, but I am feeling somewhat empathetic towards his situation here. I also don't think they've been honest with each other yet because I feel they'd be more relaxed if that were so, especially him. He's quite tense around her, & for good reason. It may not all be Danielle's fault either, as it's true production will dwell on things they want to make an issue & blow them up even more than is real, so they're each 'playing the part'. I think one or both also stated they were not comfortable in front of the cameras, & that will make everything look worse. So due to his insecurities he was doomed to look like a 'puss'.

But I didn't see Cody blaming his father for his lack of 'manly' skills. He just stated a truth; some parents are not involved. My parents taught me nothing; I had to figure it out as I went along & would've looked insecure, bumbling, & even timid as well. Cody had to figure out a drill while the cameras rolled & Danielle watched, with him being keenly aware she's judging his 'lack of manly skills' & the world is watching him bumbling around with the thing. Honestly, I have to give him credit on that one because I probably would've had a panic attack. And he's giving her a treadmill & getting it all set up for her before she gets home -that he should be able to do well given he's a gym owner, but I noticed they didn't dwell too much on that. Also, he's not just putting up with her crazy dogs, he's helping care for them. Those two could've sent someone packing after a day or so.

But anything Cody does right, or can do well, they probably won't show, or at least won't linger on lest we think he's at all competent about anything.

[Gem 10]

I haven't read ALL these comments yet, but have something to say about age & the guys.  25 is not too young to be married for a guy.  I've seen marriages of guys being 21, 23, 25 who are still married to the same woman.  I've also seen older guys married after 30 who got divorced.  So, it's not the age you have to blame .. It's the person himself.  That goes for women also.  Years ago, people took marriage seriously.  Today, a few fights ... They call the attorney.  There's too much talking about stupid things like I've never seen before.  Get married because of love and shut the hell up and do what you gotta do.

[Snarklepuss]

4 hours ago, MsPH said:

 

I don't think they've agreed to go through the motions yet. Cody seems to still be trying, in his own way, and in that conversation at the end of the episode when he told her he's trying and asked if a part of her doesn't want them to work out, he started welling up. Reminded me of a little kid who's just realised he's not getting the toy he's been asking for for months. It felt very real to me. I kind of feel sorry for him, but on the other hand, they're just a horrible match and will both be much happier with someone else. Danielle needs someone older than her who's more experienced and will naturally take charge without having to be nagged into it. Cody needs someone younger who doesn't yet have a set idea of what she wants and who will look up to him as the more wordly one, OR someone dominant who's totally fine with having a lapdog. Maybe he should've been married to Angie the bridesmaid instead.

I didn't mean to say that both of them were not interested and telling each other that, only that Danielle was communicating that she was not interested and he was just accepting that.  I also don't think Danielle has come out to tell Cody point blank that there's no chance with him period, but I think Danielle has been open enough for Cody to not be mislead that she's unhappy and doesn't really see things going anywhere at this point.  Even what she said on this episode was pretty clear to me at least.  The way he asked her was as if he already knew the answer.  I don't think Danielle is using a knife to get her point across but he's getting the point anyway or he wouldn't be that upset.  I do think he may have been more invested in making the relationship work if she also were but I kind of sense that he knows he's not going to get anywhere with her.  So I do think that he is just going along with things as if there might be a chance at this point for the sake of the show.  I suppose he's not ready to give up hope yet as long as she's not leaving the show altogether like Heather did, but he pretty much knows at this point that he's not going to get anywhere with her.  I can't feel that sorry for him because I don't think he was ready for marriage anyway.  Like others, I can't forgive him for his "sex every day" comments.  I agree with you that Danielle would be best matched with someone older and more mature and Cody needs to wait a few years to find someone, perhaps his own age or younger.

[Snarklepuss]

13 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

I haven't read ALL these comments yet, but have something to say about age & the guys.  25 is not too young to be married for a guy.  I've seen marriages of guys being 21, 23, 25 who are still married to the same woman.  I've also seen older guys married after 30 who got divorced.  So, it's not the age you have to blame .. It's the person himself.  That goes for women also.  Years ago, people took marriage seriously.  Today, a few fights ... They call the attorney.  There's too much talking about stupid things like I've never seen before.  Get married because of love and shut the hell up and do what you gotta do.

The average age of first marriage in the US keeps climbing.  Right now it's 29 for men in the US and 27 for women.  It's even higher in some countries!  In Canada, men average 31 for first marriage!  So I think a lot of this is generational.  Somehow 20 something people today are not feeling ready for marriage at the younger ages that older generations did.  Sociologists are always talking about the prolonged period of adolescence in modern society as a possible reason for this, which seems to be getting longer and longer as the decades progress.  So this may have something to do with this show's audience's perception that men around age 25 or 26 are "too young" or "too immature" for marriage.  In a lot of cases, this may be the truth despite whether they themselves feel ready for marriage.  Of course, this varies by area and the individual, but this is the general trend, anyway.

Edited June 11, 2017 by Snarklepuss
Clarity.

[Intuition]

On 6/9/2017 at 10:12 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

Codys voice is soooo terrible and monotone but I do feel sorry for that poor vocal fry of a guy because he looks like he has so much anxiety trying to be masculine enough for D and it gives me anxiety watching him .Speaking of D, she is a very old looking 30 . She could also use a different hair do and eyebrow . 

OMG I have been thinking this about Danielle the entire season!  She needs an eyebrow intervention in the worst way.  I understand the strong eyebrow is in style but she has no idea how to shape them!

[Intuition]

On 6/9/2017 at 5:16 AM, bichonblitz said:

So after the hot date with Danielle and Cody, she says she was too tired to have sex when they got home? Wha? She acts like an old lady. A passive aggressive old lady.

There's no way she would have been too tired for sex with him if she really wanted it.  That was total BS.  I think he makes her feel like an "old lady".  She talks to him as if he were her son or something.  Then again, he asks for it by acting like an unsure teenager.  What a horrible match!

[gonecrackers]

38 minutes ago, Snarklepuss said:

ITA with this - For some people the school of life is all that is needed to be experts - In that you would graduate with an A+!!!

Thank you :) - & it's surely the most challenging school we'll all ever attend.

[Jeanne222]

Well hasn't this turned out to be a 'steller' year.  Lots of chit chat tells me there will be a 'morning after' next season for all of us to enjoy.

Ok so we all get our opinion..here's mine.  Cody is just toooo young for Danielle.  Also we have not brought up the fact that evidently Danielle is unable to control anything.  Just look at those two crazy, jumping, sleeping in bed dogs she brought to the marriage.  My heart screams...Obedience School.  Those dogs are her life.  She does not need a man.  Cody is sooo patient with the three of them...Danielle and two dogs.  You just gotta love his efforts.

This is a whole new, crazy world to me.  Does it bother people these days that the person you are with has had multiple partners and lots of one night stands and most likely lived with another person for years?  Also just for the record I don't think anybody rushes off to divorce with the going price in the South west for an attorney being $10,000 for starters.  Soon nobody will get married because they can not afford a divorce.  That will solve that problem.

My last comment is Anthonys hair...Oh never mind! 

[humbleopinion]

I'll bite..

Anthony's hair is a force to be reckoned with.

Very healthy, curly and luxurious like a Garnier Fructis commercial.

But to look like a serious business guy he has to slather on hair product and comb it back.

When dry, he looks like he is wearing a Mrs. Doubtfire wig.

Now you...

[Agnetha]

1 hour ago, Intuition said:

OMG I have been thinking this about Danielle the entire season!  She needs an eyebrow intervention in the worst way.  I understand the strong eyebrow is in style but she has no idea how to shape them!

They look horrible. I like strong eyebrows, but they still need shape. Her's look like she has strong eyebrows and fills them simply in with eyebrow powder instead of plucking them.

 

16 minutes ago, humbleopinion said:

I'll bite..

Anthony's hair is a force to be reckoned with.

Very healthy, curly and luxurious like a Garnier Fructis commercial.

But to look like a serious business guy he has to slather on hair product and comb it back.

When dry, he looks like he is wearing a Mrs. Doubtfire wig.

Now you...

Oh god, now I cannot unsee this. I don't know how Ashley does it. 

[humbleopinion]

Ashley likes Anthony and  his hair is not a deal breaker.

Anthony is tolerable and so is his hair...dry or goopy.

Your mileage may vary...of course.

[gonecrackers]

Anthony's cooking & willingness to make babies outweighs the crazy hair for Ashley. She will focus on his eyes so she can see herself & not his hair.

Edited June 11, 2017 by gonecrackers
stay on the eyes

[Jack Sampson]

41 minutes ago, Agnetha said:

Oh god, now I cannot unsee this. I don't know how Ashley does it. 

Because my Ashley's an angel.

 

1 hour ago, Jeanne222 said:

This is a whole new, crazy world to me.  Does it bother people these days that the person you are with has had multiple partners and lots of one night stands and most likely lived with another person for years? 

I would never even seriously date a woman who's had more than 3.  It's a double standard because my count is considerably higher. 

[okerry]

12 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

And actually, in my experience, Alpha women usually go for Alpha men, just not the ones that want a woman to be their submissive. 

yebbut I think both sides find out pretty quickly that it really doesn't work well. Alpha men don't like women trying to run the show and tell them what to do, and alpha women resent a man doing the same. If you've seen couples who fight like cats and dogs over everything and act like they have nothing in common except wild sex, they're probably two alpha types. It just doesn't work well. 

It's just like a ballroom dance. One partner has to lead and the other has to be happy to follow that lead. If neither will step up to lead, they just stand around looking at each other like Danielle and Cody and there's no dancing.

If they both try to lead, all they do is struggle constantly over where they're going and you have endless fights like Monet and what's-his-name.

Edited June 11, 2017 by okerry

[Agnetha]

11 minutes ago, Jack Sampson said:

Because my Ashley's an angel.

 

I would never even seriously date a woman who's had more than 3.  It's a double standard because my count is considerably higher. 

Unless you date a 20 year old or someone who's been in really, really good relationships... good look with that. They are not going to tell you anyway. A school friend of mine was before the age 19 in double figures. She married a Catholic teacher. I don't think he should judge her, but I don't think she ever told him. 

[humbleopinion]

A gentleman doesn't ask and a lady never tells.

If you are dating an angel, you are their first and only.

[okerry]

2 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

The average age of first marriage in the US keeps climbing.  Right now it's 29 for men in the US and 27 for women.  It's even higher in some countries!  In Canada, men average 31 for first marriage!  So I think a lot of this is generational.  Somehow 20 something people today are not feeling ready for marriage at the younger ages that older generations did. 

I don't think this has anything to do with "prolonged adolescence" or anything like that. If men aren't getting married today like they used to, it's for one reason and one reason only: They Don't Have To.

It used to be that men would get married as much to have a steady sex partner as anything else, and there's nothing wrong with that. But now? In the name of "equality," females are strongly encouraged to treat their sex lives exactly the way men always have. That means sleeping with pretty much any guy who looks good and seems nice, and being willing to walk away in the morning - and risk being called a prude, a cold fish, or worse if she doesn't.

So, men can freely help themselves to all the casual sex they want, with as many partners as they can find. They even get free housekeeping support if they ask a girlfriend to move in with them. Even if said girlfriend turns up pregnant, that's still no reason to get married in this enlightened age we live in.

It's a super arrangement for men. They can get all the sex they want, free housekeeping, and children to carry on their name, all without the risk of losing at least half of what they have if one of them wants out.

In the meantime, women watch endless reruns of Say Yes to the Dress while crying about how they can't find a husband. We have other TV shows like MAFS that get 10,000 women and five loser men showing up to each audition.

Sorry 'bout it, girls, but you can't fool Mother Nature. If you really want a husband, you've got to wait for the man who will treat you like that's what he is - and you've got to treat him the same way. That means Wait. Don't act like a wife when you aren't one. What you give away for free is worth exactly what these men are paying for it: Nothing. And that's exactly how they're going to treat it.

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

I haven't read ALL these comments yet, but have something to say about age & the guys.  25 is not too young to be married for a guy.  I've seen marriages of guys being 21, 23, 25 who are still married to the same woman.  I've also seen older guys married after 30 who got divorced.  So, it's not the age you have to blame .. It's the person himself.  That goes for women also.  Years ago, people took marriage seriously.  Today, a few fights ... They call the attorney.  There's too much talking about stupid things like I've never seen before.  Get married because of love and shut the hell up and do what you gotta do.

I agree with this.  I wonder if these people really want a partner, or if they want to be married.  I think many of them really want to be married, want the title of "husband" or "wife," not so much interested in who the partner will be.  It's like, "I want to be a husband, I want to be a wife."  Like being married is more important than who they're marrying.  

I remember when Sheila showed her ring to the camera and said, "BAM, I'm married," and that she changed her name so quickly, I mean in a conventional situation, of course, but this isn't conventional, to me it seemed silly to change her name so quickly.  

I don't know if I'm making much sense but I get the feeling that a lot of these folks want the "idea" of marriage, rather than the reality of marriage.  That some people think if they have a few fights, and things are rocky, then they aren't meant to be together.  In a mature relationship, sometimes you disagree, you might even argue, but then you can repair.  I have a friend who can't stay in a job for more than three years, because every time there is some type of disagreement, she quits.  I used to be like that too, until I realized, "oh shit, we can actually repair this?"

I also wonder if some of these folks want marriage because they feel they're supposed to want it at their age. 

But I have to say this:  Decades ago, people took marriage seriously because then it wasn't just about marriage, it was about survival.  Even though today women still earn less than men for doing the same job (think a job like a physician), decades ago it was WAY different; the thinking was "we don't have to pay a woman anything, because eventually, she'll find a man to take care of her."  Back then, women put up with a lot of shit; now many women don't have to.  

Edited June 11, 2017 by Neurochick

[Drogo]

Everyone here is equally qualified to share their opinions on the couples.  Posts have been hidden.

[Snarklepuss]

1 hour ago, okerry said:

I don't think this has anything to do with "prolonged adolescence" or anything like that. If men aren't getting married today like they used to, it's for one reason and one reason only: They Don't Have To.

It used to be that men would get married as much to have a steady sex partner as anything else, and there's nothing wrong with that. But now? In the name of "equality," females are strongly encouraged to treat their sex lives exactly the way men always have. That means sleeping with pretty much any guy who looks good and seems nice, and being willing to walk away in the morning - and risk being called a prude, a cold fish, or worse if she doesn't.

So, men can freely help themselves to all the casual sex they want, with as many partners as they can find. They even get free housekeeping support if they ask a girlfriend to move in with them. Even if said girlfriend turns up pregnant, that's still no reason to get married in this enlightened age we live in.

It's a super arrangement for men. They can get all the sex they want, free housekeeping, and children to carry on their name, all without the risk of losing at least half of what they have if one of them wants out.

Eh, I don't really agree with this.  50% of all couples that live together eventually marry and the highest increase in cohabiting couples in recent years has been in the 50+ age bracket.  I think most young people are looking at cohabitation as a "road test" for potential marriage, not an end unto itself.  Most men, so I have read, are looking for a similar long-term life partner and many want children too so they are more amenable to marriage if those things are important to them.  I think a lot of young people associate marriage with a lifetime commitment, and because they know how hard it is to maintain one, they'd rather test drive that situation before jumping into marriage.  Unfortunately, this show does just the opposite - they marry first, THEN they decide whether the "road test" is a success.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

But I have to say this:  Decades ago, people took marriage seriously because then it wasn't just about marriage, it was about survival.  Even though today women still earn less than men for doing the same job (think a job like a physician), decades ago it was WAY different; the thinking was "we don't have to pay a woman anything, because eventually, she'll find a man to take care of her."  Back then, women put up with a lot of shit; now many women don't have to.  

I think young people take marriage just as seriously or even moreso than decades ago, which is why they put it off until they are absolutely sure it's going to work for the long haul.  That's why they move in together to try out living together first.  They're trying in their own way not to end up like their parents' generation with high divorce rates.  Not sure if they're succeeding, but I have to admire them for this anyway!

Edited June 11, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[yb125]

  1 hour ago, okerry said:

I don't think this has anything to do with "prolonged adolescence" or anything like that. If men aren't getting married today like they used to, it's for one reason and one reason only: They Don't Have To.

It used to be that men would get married as much to have a steady sex partner as anything else, and there's nothing wrong with that. But now? In the name of "equality," females are strongly encouraged to treat their sex lives exactly the way men always have. That means sleeping with pretty much any guy who looks good and seems nice, and being willing to walk away in the morning - and risk being called a prude, a cold fish, or worse if she doesn't.

So, men can freely help themselves to all the casual sex they want, with as many partners as they can find. They even get free housekeeping support if they ask a girlfriend to move in with them. Even if said girlfriend turns up pregnant, that's still no reason to get married in this enlightened age we live in.

It's a super arrangement for men. They can get all the sex they want, free housekeeping, and children to carry on their name, all without the risk of losing at least half of what they have if one of them wants out.

Eh, I don't really agree with this.  50% of all couples that live together eventually marry and the highest increase in cohabiting couples in recent years has been in the 50+ age bracket.  I think most young people are looking at cohabitation as a "road test" for potential marriage, not an end unto itself.  Most men, so I have read, are looking for a similar long-term life partner and many want children too so they are more amenable to marriage if those things are important to them.  I think a lot of young people associate marriage with a lifetime commitment, and because they know how hard it is to maintain one, they'd rather test drive that situation before jumping into marriage.  Unfortunately, this show does just the opposite - they marry first, THEN they decide whether the "road test" is a success.

  1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

But I have to say this:  Decades ago, people took marriage seriously because then it wasn't just about marriage, it was about survival.  Even though today women still earn less than men for doing the same job (think a job like a physician), decades ago it was WAY different; the thinking was "we don't have to pay a woman anything, because eventually, she'll find a man to take care of her."  Back then, women put up with a lot of shit; now many women don't have to.  

I think young people take marriage just as seriously or even moreso than decades ago, which is why they put it off until they are absolutely sure it's going to work for the long haul.  That's why they move in together to try out living together first.  They're trying in their own way not to end up like their parents' generation with high divorce rates.  Not sure if they're succeeding, but I have to admire them for this anyway!

I agree, I mean of course the couples on this show are in no way representative of their general age groups. More people put of marriage for many reasons. Economics is a basic one (and because of that education)
Many young(24-30) people I know believe they are with their life partners but want to reach certain economic/educational goals before marriage. If you want to finish college and make some head way on a good career path, you are already looking post 25 easy. Survey data backs this up as well.

Many just as you said want to make sure by living together.

Every generation has access to more potential partners then the last. More choices can create anxiety about choosing.

Just an aside it's not that relevant here, but while their is data that says marrying age is increasing, those studies are often skewed because that tend to survey college educated and higher earning people (even when these studies try to do random sampling, getting a hold of lower income people is just harder). When you look at lower income and lower education levels you see younger marriage rates.

[gonecrackers]

This is going to be a very insecure endeavor for anyone because even though the 'experts' insist they are REAL marriages, they also call it an 'experiment'. Just the word experiment suggests possible failure. Even if one party is taking it seriously as a lifelong commitment, there is always the concern the other one is still viewing it as an 'experiment'. It's also a TV show with a high failure rate, so I don't know how anyone could go into this thinking they're really going to find their forever mate.

[HZAnita]

Something is seriously wrong with me or this show, because suddenly Sheila and Nate have become my favorite couple.  Even after that awful honeymoon and ping-pong-gate. a little pizza contest and I'm melting.  Are Sheila and Nate that fantastic?  Or are the other two couples just that awful?  Granted, A&A are miles above C&D, but still...WTH, show?

[ethalfrida]

9 minutes ago, HZAnita said:

Something is seriously wrong with me or this show, because suddenly Sheila and Nate have become my favorite couple.  Even after that awful honeymoon and ping-pong-gate. a little pizza contest and I'm melting.  Are Sheila and Nate that fantastic?  Or are the other two couples just that awful?  Granted, A&A are miles above C&D, but still...WTH, show?

Ping-Pong-Gate!!! Love it...

[humbleopinion]

Sheila and N8 are getting to lovey dovey edit...portrayed and progressing towards a lasting relationship.

 

Ant/Ash are getting the nit picky edit.

Anthony: Look out Ashley...a mole hill...watch your step...

Ashley: What are you talking about?...I only see the mountain blocking my way...

I can climb it by myself...I've done just fine all these years without you, Mr. D'Amico.

 

Cody and Danielle...causing some heat on this forum so backing away slowly

[yb125]

This is going to be a very insecure endeavor for anyone because even though the 'experts' insist they are REAL marriages, they also call it an 'experiment'. Just the word experiment suggests possible failure. Even if one party is taking it seriously as a lifelong commitment, there is always the concern the other one is still viewing it as an 'experiment'. It's also a TV show with a high failure rate, so I don't know how anyone could go into this thinking they're really going to find their forever mate.

I agree but I can see the rationalization of someone., especially if they didn't keep up whit all the online info about people. They might see some failed couples and think "Well I would never do that, act like that so I would be OK", and instead see themselves more in the successful couples. Of course to do think particular show means more then just unlucky in love. There are services that are also made to get you married and a lot more private. So potentially if they really are serious about marriage, they already tried without success those services, or couldn't afford them maybe, or also want to be on TV.

[yb125]

Something is seriously wrong with me or this show, because suddenly Sheila and Nate have become my favorite couple.  Even after that awful honeymoon and ping-pong-gate. a little pizza contest and I'm melting.  Are Sheila and Nate that fantastic?  Or are the other two couples just that awful?  Granted, A&A are miles above C&D, but still...WTH, show?

I pretty much agree, at the very least they are committed to the roles and we'll see if those roles become real.
A&A are good with a big exception, it seems that he is not comfortable being honesty with her about his feelings. They isn't a deal breaker yet, but it seems he may be developing the belief that he'll always have to be super careful around her.

[roseslg]

I'm not picking up what N8 is putting down so far.   Asquared, they seem to get along the best, 'expert' interference aside. I can kinda get where Danielle is coming from, though I don't agree with how she is playing Cody.   The guy I dated before my husband was a bit like Cody.  Mind you, I am not one for the manly, take charge type, but he was so blah.  His mom was his soul mate, he told a story about how he had been doing pushups wrongly for years, he would try to lead me through crowds and would fail every single time, the list goes on.   I had people in my ear who were telling me "oh, he'll grown on you, just give it time." These were married folks who thought something must be wrong since I was in my mid-thirties and not married with babies.  Lord, I tried, but I could not have sex with him.  I couldn't.  I don't believe in leaving folks hanging, but, I couldn't.   Never saw him again, never looked back.   People, it's ok to be single.  Don't rush to be on some stupid show because you want to be "married".  

[Snarklepuss]

7 hours ago, humbleopinion said:

I'll bite..

Anthony's hair is a force to be reckoned with.

Very healthy, curly and luxurious like a Garnier Fructis commercial.

But to look like a serious business guy he has to slather on hair product and comb it back.

When dry, he looks like he is wearing a Mrs. Doubtfire wig.

Now you...

Eddie Munster called and wants his hairstyle back.

Doesn't he know the wet head is dead?

Old Brylcreem commercial to Anthony:  A little dab'll do ya!

(I know, I'm showing my age!)

[Snarklepuss]

7 hours ago, Agnetha said:

They look horrible. I like strong eyebrows, but they still need shape. Her's look like she has strong eyebrows and fills them simply in with eyebrow powder instead of plucking them.

I've noticed this with her too.  And they change from week to week!  She's not even consistent with how she does them!

[LotusEsq]

11 hours ago, Jeanne222 said:

Also just for the record I don't think anybody rushes off to divorce with the going price in the South west for an attorney being $10,000 for starters.  Soon nobody will get married because they can not afford a divorce.  

Hmm. Having handled many divorces in several jurisdictions, I can tell you that this is completely untrue in my experience. Uncontested divorces go for about 1/10 of that. And contested divorces are billed at an hourly rate. So I'm not sure where you got this number from?  Besides the fact that one can file for a divorce without an attorney by just paying the nominal filing fee, I don't think people think about the cost of divorce when considering getting married. Look at all the people who don't get pre-nups!