Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

10 hours ago, anamika said:

Oh, I think PD definitely filmed something there wearing this costume. And that was conveyed to Friki. But I don't think the scene filmed is what Friki says it was.

Okay, but what, exactly? If Tyrion has longer hair and is in dirty clothes, etc., that sounds like he was kept somewhere against his will for a long period of time, so he was probably imprisoned by someone, but in 8x05, he's running around on the streets of KL with Jon, Davos and Arya, so not imprisoned. And if Friki got legit spoilers about Peter Dinklage's costume, I don't know why the rest wouldn't be accurate as well unless it was some sort of deliberate ploy to throw Friki off the scent, which seems unlikely to me (but not impossible, given the latest information about what HBO's been up to to shut Friki down).

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I am now leaning more towards BsB being right.

James Hibberd said in his EW article that the final battle between the Army of the Dead and the living takes place at Winterfell. He will tease and hint, but he as far I know, he has never outright lied. BSB has said that their source told them that the final clash is at KL and has talked up a big KL battle.  If BSB is wrong about that, they're wrong about the rest as well. BSB also said that extras also filmed this final KL battle during the night shoots at Magheramorne Quarry in March 2018 but were lied to and told it was for 8x03, which is not impossible but seems unlikely. The writers recently said that they were aware of criticisms about the pacing in S7 and said that there wouldn't be crazy time travel in S8, which contradicts BSB. Lastly, BSB has said that they think there were multiple scenes filmed in Seville, which is possible, but Sophie at least said she spent five days filming one scene, and with only D&D as directors in Seville, I doubt there were two scenes being filmed concurrently.

The weird part is that I do think BSB knows or has access to the social media of someone in the crew or knows or has access to the social media of one or more of the stand-ins (doubles). I just don't think they were told anything. I think they made some guesses based on their own conclusions about the set and filming information that they passed off as leaks and that later turned out to be wrong. 

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A lot of the stuff that Friki says makes no sense ultimately. There were contradictions. Extras being told to be prepared for fight scenes and their hair being cut and them being trained - apparently all this was being done to fool them.  And then these same extras were being used to guard Tyrion ?! Then what's the point of fooling them before, if they eventually know what the scene is about? Why do they need 30 guards for Tyrion?

I agree about the problems, and I don't know why they would throw Tyrion in prison for a few months before holding his trial. Littlefinger was tried and executed on the spot when his treason was revealed.

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Tyrion's betrayal is revealed in a scene that includes Tyrion - so pretty much the main characters know he is guilty. Tyrion is then executed in another scene.

Yes, with Littlefinger, this was all one scene. Usually, D&D don't write with in-scene flashbacks or cutaways and don't jump around chronologically (with the exception of the Cersei witch flashback in Season 5): when Littlefinger's treason was revealed, it was all dialogue, not flashbacks to Littlefinger lying to Catelyn about the dagger. Everything's usually pretty straightforward and sequential. They did do the Cersei flashback, though, as I said, so I suppose it is possible.

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So why the trial? Shot over 5 days with so many different takes that made Sophie Turner so frustrated she keeps mentioning it again and again in her interviews.

It sounds like a longish scene like the Dragonpit scene, and that could take five days to film. Sophie generally loves action scenes, too, so if she was complaining about being bored and standing around, it's probably a dialogue-heavy scene as Friki described.

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Why is it so essential to have the trial only in the dragonpit and no where else - especially if secrecy for this plot is so essential but everyone could see which actors where involved and that only D&D where there - basically giving away that all these characters made it episode 6.

I actually think this supports Friki's story, though. I remember that HBO initially insisted on filming at the Royal Shipyards (which doubled for the area where Cersei had the dragon weapon tested) as well as the ruins at Italica, and said that they weren't interested in the latter if they couldn't get the former. They obviously changed their minds about that, since there was no Royal Shipyards filming for S8, but I was thinking that maybe it's because the Royal Shipyards are supposed to be where Tyrion is supposed to be held leading up to his trial.

And we do know about a lot of "decoy" actors whose characters probably died before 8x06 who showed up in Seville only to leave before filming anything: NCW, Lena, Conleth Hill, etc. It was only the obsessives like us who kept track of who stuck around and who left.

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I don't think Maisie filmed in Seville or she was not part of whatever Sophie filmed. 

Kit, sure, but HBO doesn't usually pay for actors to fly in and stay at expensive hotels unless they're going to film. The actors probably would have flown in for Sophie's last day just as Kit seems to have done instead of hanging around in Seville for a week. Maisie was also snapped leaving for and returning to the hotel with cast members on multiple days. And while I might be able to buy that Maisie would just want to hang around on set for multiple days as a moral support for Sophie, I doubt Gwen, Isaac and Liam would feel compelled to do the same.

For actors who were in town but stayed somewhere else (like Gemma Whelan), it's dicier. 

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I think a lot of the actors where there because Sophie was wrapping the series, a documentary, just to be together one last time in Seville. Gemma Whelan could have been sight seeing with her baby. If Friki had mentioned Edmure being there, I could see some truth to it - as no one made out Tobias there until the airport. But as per Friki, Edmure is not there.

The Edmure thing admittedly makes no sense to me. Why sneak Tobias in and put him on the same returning flight as the cast if he wasn't going to film anything? If he wasn't part of the scene, it would make sense to have Tobias making himself very visible along with the other decoys. On the other hand, if Edmure is in the scene, that again points to an epilogue scene, although it does pose a big problem with respect to the source's information.

The Joe Dempsie thing also makes no sense to me. He gave at least two interviews about wrapping in Seville, even talking about what it was like to wrap there while the other actors were having trouble holding it together, etc. but didn't actually film for a scene? It was initially what made me doubt Friki's source. On the other hand, I wonder if Gendry does indeed perish in 8x03, in which case I guess he would be lying about filming in Seville, to what end I can't imagine. If Sophie's allowed to say truthfully she wrapped in Seville, surely Joe is allowed to say whether or not he wrapped, too?

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Peter Dinklage and Sophie Turner filmed a 5 day long, exhaustive shoot with many, may takes in Seville. That's the only thing I know for sure happened there.

The Thursday in Seville, I think there were reports of a fog machine being used for filming based on an aerial picture, although looking at the pics taken a ways off from the amphitheater that day, it may just have been a foggy day. I also remember another specific account at the time that I can't find anywhere that said that there was a scene with Tyrion and Sansa was filmed with them running around. It doesn't sound like anything Sophie or Friki described, but Peter and Sophie's stand-ins were spotted entering and leaving the set that Thursday at least. 

The long and short of it is that I've been over all the information, and in the end I think Friki's source is probably right about the trial even if they missed some details. This is a historical site that was supposed to undergo renovations: a long, talky scene that poses no risk to the property seems like the safe bet. On the other hand, I guess you could argue that if it was such an innocuous scene, it wouldn’t have taken such a long time to get the permits to film there, but the way Sophie described the scene she filmed sounded nothing like an action scene.

10 hours ago, GraceK said:

I don’t see why he would be pissed off. Peter Dinklage has always been adamant about not wanting to play the stereotypical dwarf and has chosen his roles carefully for that reason. To be able play a character universally beloved, and then go on a hero’s journey  that ends in a tragic betrayal and death is possibly one of the best character arcs ever in television if done right. 

It doesn't sound like it is done right, though, no more than Shae swearing she loves and would die for Sansa and then not long after callously throwing her under the bus at Tyrion's trial. And Peter Dinklage would feel the same way about it that we know Sibel Kekilli felt about Shae lying about Sansa (she  begged for it to be changed): pretty fucking terrible. And Sibel Kekilli had only been playing Shae for three seasons when she had that reaction! Peter Dinklage had been playing Tyrion for seven when he found out his fate.

Actors are advocates for their characters and want the best for them. They can't not be. And if you think Peter Dinklage would be thrilled about Tyrion having an arc and fate that confirms the worst of what Tywin and the prejudiced Westerosi thought of him--a twisted, ill-made, untrustworthy, vile creature inherently prone to evil and vice, etc. etc.--and has the heroic leading characters stand and talk about how awful and despicable he is and condemn him to death, well, you can think that, but I expect you'd be very wrong.

I also doubt Peter Dinklage cares about getting another Emmy, particularly if acting out this bullshit is how he has to earn it. He seemed almost embarrassed to get the last one at Jonathan Banks' expense.

3 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

1- Yes, or they wouldn't have used security to threaten WatchersOnMyBalls

No, HBO is used to first episode spoilers getting out. Kind of an occupational hazard when you do red carpet premieres (and other premieres, as HBO has done in the past) before the episode airs.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[screamin]

58 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Actors are advocates for their characters and want the best for them. They can't not be. And if you think Peter Dinklage would be thrilled about Tyrion having an arc and fate that confirms the worst of what Tywin and the prejudiced Westerosi thought of him--a twisted, ill-made, untrustworthy, vile creature inherently prone to evil and vice, etc. etc.--and has the heroic leading characters stand and talk about how awful and despicable he is and condemn him to death, well, you can think that, but I expect you'd be very wrong.

But in another sense, it would be just as limited and confining a role, as well as just as poor an ending, if Tyrion ended as saintly and faultless.  IMO, the most compelling story would be one where a character  - ANY character - is a imperfect one with well-drawn virtues and flaws, who does interesting - and perhaps WRONG things - for understandable reasons.

IMO, a trial where Tyrion defends actions he's taken with bad outcomes for some but for the good of the many, with all the wit he's capable of, with his judges recognizing his points but reluctantly in the end deciding too much weighs against him and condemning him...that could be a great scene that Dinklage could rightly be proud of. (Myself, I still think he's going to convince Jon to be the Nissa Nissa sacrifice so Dany can survive, but that's just my theory).

The possibility that really bugs me is that the GC gets to WF by ship before Jaime or Theon has time to warn them of Cersei's treachery, Tyrion talks people into letting them in because he thinks they're Cersei's promised reinforcements - and then is blamed for whatever attack they execute. The most annoying ending to me would be St Tyrion the Martyr getting one more coat of whitewash. If he's to be tried, let it be for a crime he really DID do, for a change.

[Eyes High]

52 minutes ago, screamin said:

But in another sense, it would be just as limited and confining a role, as well as just as poor an ending, if Tyrion ended as saintly and faultless.

You might see it that way, but I doubt Peter Dinklage does. Lena still says she wants Cersei to be queen, after all, and I have no reason to doubt that she honestly believes that, too. NCW has also strongly advocated for his character and wants him to have a great ending (and openly questioned and complained about Jaime's S7 arc, which he felt was a step backwards for his character since he was still Cersei's lapdog), despite all the despicable things TV Jaime has done. 

Peter Dinklage has already played Richard III. I doubt he's interested in rehashing GRRM's bargain basement version (assuming that's what happens).

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...that could be a great scene that Dinklage could rightly be proud of

He wouldn't be, for the reasons I've said.

And really, you can't have it both ways. Either what Tyrion did is truly evil and completely unjustifiable, in which case the remaining heroic characters will be justified in executing him in a departure for TV Tyrion's character so insane and extreme that no actor could pull it off (much less be happy with such a radical shift, as with Sibel Kekilli), or it was justifiable or at least understandable, in which case the heroic characters will look ridiculously harsh for condemning him to death instead of exile, the Wall, or some lesser punishment. And Friki's source has stated that Tyrion is executed.

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 The most annoying ending to me woul d be St Tyrion the Martyr getting one more coat of whitewash. If he's to be tried, let it be for a crime he really DID do, for a change.

Yes, but again, you can't have it both ways. Either Tyrion did something incredibly, insanely awful to justify his execution, which is completely out of character for TV Tyrion in the show, or he didn't do anything that awful to justify his execution and D&D are okay with depicting the remaining heroes as unreasonable assholes making Tyrion a martyr. This idea that Peter Dinklage would be happy with either ending, much less excited to act it out, is sheer fan projection, I think.

Lastly, EW published an interview with D&D from 2015 (I think) that Hibberd had been sitting on until the last season to release (I believe at D&D's request). In that interview, it's revealed that D&D had already mapped out every character's endgame and started giving actors hints during the filming of S6 how to play their scenes based on those endgames. And really, I didn't see anything in Peter Dinklage's performance in Seasons 6 and 7 that suggested he was being sketchy with his advice to Dany, that he was lying in 7x07, or that he was struggling with hatred and resentment. Nor is there anything along those lines in the leaked script outlines from S7 that were never intended for public consumption, apart from Tyrion's unrequited love for Dany. I mean, maybe they'll try to sell it that way after the fact, but I don't know.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

I don't think anyone can speak about what Peter wants for his character. He said Tyrion has a beautiful ending and I think every actor would love to die on GoT. And if he dies in the last episode that would be the most iconic death GoT had. And they have a lot of iconic deaths so that does say something.

And it's nonsense to claim that either Tyrion will be seen as monster or other characters will. It will be "bittersweet"

Edited March 25, 2019 by nikma

[Eyes High]

40 minutes ago, nikma said:

I don't think anyone can speak about what Peter wants for his character. He said Tyrion has a beautiful ending

Sure, but as GRRM is so fond of reminding us, words are wind. If Peter Dinklage says Tyrion has a beautiful ending and it's a beautiful season but is refusing to do any press for anything other than his own non-GOT projects, is limiting the number of GOT questions he is asked in interviews, and has also described S8 as "complicated," how do you think he really feels about it? Not everyone expresses their displeasure with the writing by grousing to the press like NCW. Peter Dinklage has been completely MIA during preseason promotion. The rest of the cast are giving interviews, and he is nowhere to be found. He also skipped the press junket. There are 20 days left, but his relative silence so far is noteworthy. He hasn't given any interviews since that mid-October Vulture interview in the fall, whereas the other lead actors are giving multiple interviews and making multiple press appearances to promote the show and their new projects. It would be the best time to promote himself and his new projects (and it sounds like he is working on a few things, like a comedy "Brothers" with Josh Brolin), but he's saying nothing. It is very peculiar. There are 20 days left, so we might see something, but everyone else is doing interviews and taking advantage of the preseason promotion, and Peter Dinklage hasn't.

And to go back to the interviews where he did (begrudgingly, apparently) talk about GOT, spoiling Tyrion's death, which if true would be the biggest spoiler for the entire series, if Tyrion truly does die, knowing just how hard HBO is attempting to prevent endgame spoilers from getting out, is the best passive-aggressive thumb in D&D's eye I could think of. If he was bitter about S8 and wanted to fuck D&D over, well, that would be the best way to do it. Vulture even appended a "Peter Dinklage probably doesn't mean that" qualifier to the quote in the Vulture interview where he talks about Tyrion's death, which sure looks like HBO-ordered damage control to me. I even wonder now if HBO banned Peter Dinklage from doing further GOT-related press after those two interviews in the fall.

Now, if Tyrion does die as a result of betraying the Starks for the Lannisters and is executed, I'm completely surprised that the promotional materials like the trailer would hint so heavily at that outcome, which is why I said upthread that I thought this Tyrion betrayal thing was all a big blind, but with Friki's death spoilers and Peter Dinklage's interviews out there, maybe that's the play.

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And it's nonsense to claim that either Tyrion will be seen as monster or other characters will. 

No, it isn't. Those are the options.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

Peter said more about S8 than any other season since S4. He just doesn't give that many interviews. And he is coming for his 4th Emmy if he has great speech on that trial.

Actors are not fanboys of their characters. If he gets good material to show his talent he will he happy IMO.

And tbh from all the interviews I watched from him since S1, he doesn't seem like someone that passionate about the show. He is like Charles Dance or Lena. Not Nikolaj or Liam.

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

No, it isn't. Those are the options.

No. There are other options.

Edited March 25, 2019 by nikma

[GraceK]

We could also be looking at the Tyrion betrayal theory all wrong. With all of the theories that have gone around about what “ unexpected ending that everyone got wrong “, what I haven’t heard much is one where Cersei lives. Maybe Tyrion helps her get the hell out dodge and as a result someone dies on TeamStark. 🤷🏻‍♀️ That could be a betrayal that really doesn’t require a retcon of anything he has done, it just continues to show that   He doesn’t want her dead. If Jorah, or Gilly, or Missendi or someone innocent accidentally dies while Cersei escapes, or If Cersei is responsible for killing someone on Team good guy or Attacking Winterfell and Tyrion still decides to help her escape to Essos or whatever towards the end, that could be enough of a betrayal. If Jaime is dead in battle, maybe he feels she’s his last relative left and doesn’t want her to die. 🤷🏻‍♀️ Who knows. 

It doesn’t have to be something twisted and horrible he has done, just a remaining sliver of loyalty to his sister that helps her survive. I feel better about that that having him be secretly undermining Dany for seasons or shady backroom deals or giving up Sansa or something that betrays his character arc.

Edited March 25, 2019 by GraceK

[nikma]

Yes. As I said, he doesn't need to be a monster to be a traitor.

[Eyes High]

44 minutes ago, nikma said:

Peter said more about S8 than any other season since S4. He just doesn't give that many interviews. And he is coming for his 4th Emmy if he has great speech on that trial.

Actors are not fanboys of their characters. If he gets good material to show his talent he will he happy IMO.

And tbh from all the interviews I watched from him since S1, he doesn't seem like someone that passionate about the show. He is like Charles Dance or Lena. Not Nikolaj or Liam.

No. There are other options.

I based my opinions about Peter Dinklage's attitude on facts about Sibel Kekilli's reaction to Shae selling out Sansa, Peter Dinklage's interviews, his comments, and the runup to S8, which I've asserted and have given examples in support. Where are your facts? There are none in your quote, just unsupported assertions. And even Lena is a proven outspoken advocate for her character as I've indicated in my previous posts (again, with facts about previous statements), so invoking Lena of all people to suggest that Peter Dinklage isn't some sort of fanboy for his character really doesn't help you. And Lena unlike Peter Dinklage has been playing a villain since the beginning of the show.

Considering it's only Tyrion haters who have shown any great enthusiasm for such an ending for Tyrion as described by Friki's source (and Tyrion fans hate it for obvious reasons), from what I've personally seen of the reaction, I think the idea that Peter Dinklage will feel the same way about an ending as people who loathe and have always loathed his character is completely absurd. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

About Tyrion, I'm still of two minds.

He's a fan favorite and he's been the flawed but saintly one, so doing something that has terrible, deadly or genocidal consequences he didn't foresee seems the most probable to fit his characterization on the show.

However.

He's going to be the "bitter" part of the "bittersweet". And because he's a fan favorite, what would be worse in terms of casual audience reaction and satisfaction after the finale, that he betrays and dies for becoming a monster (shocking but after all, he deserved it re: Stannis after Shireen) or that he betrays and dies whereas he had good intentions (feeling of unfairness, tainting the "heroes" who sentenced him, therefore the "sweet" part)?

So they could make him as blinded by his jealousy and selfish desires as Cersei. Of course, there are ways out of the dilemma, like giving him "good" reasons that don't resonate at all with the audience and making him TSTL (like they did with Tommen). The audience might be peeved at first but accept the ending "on reflection".

Tyrion being inept during S7 and making a mountain out of a molehill re: Mad Kweeeen! Dany seems to hint at this solution. His ominously looking at Dany's door during boatsex suggests a dark turn. A bit of the latter might be necessary for the audience to wash their hands off him.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Happy Harpy

[nikma]

47 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I based my opinions about Peter Dinklage's attitude on facts about Sibel Kekilli's reaction to Shae selling out Sansa,

Peter Dinklage is not Sibel Kekilli. What does her reaction has to do with anything?

48 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Peter Dinklage's interviews, his comments, and the runup to S8, which I've asserted and have given examples in support. Where are your facts?

You gave examples that are not really examples. This is what Peter said about S8

 “I feel very, very — I’m trying to find the right word. I think he was given a very good conclusion. No matter what that is —death can be a great way out.”

“I think it’s going to be the best season of television anyone has ever seen,” Dinklage confidently tells the Belfast Telegraph. “It takes you to a place that you never saw coming—that I didn’t see coming. Just be prepared! It’s a fun ride.”

 The actor praises showrunners Dan Weiss and David Benioff, saying “there are no better writers in television”, and declaring “they ended it brilliantly. Better than I could have imagined, and you people are in for it.” Regarding Tyrion’s ending specifically, Dinklage has his lips sealed—almost literally—, but he does give away “it ends beautifully for my character—whether it be tragic or not.”

And you say that Peter hates S8 and Tyrion's end? Ok. 

[GraceK]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Considering it's only Tyrion haters who have shown any great enthusiasm for such an ending for Tyrion as described by Friki's source (and Tyrion fans hate it for obvious reasons), from what I've personally seen of the reaction, I think the idea that Peter Dinklage will feel the same way about an ending as people who loathe and have always loathed his character is completely absurd. 

I’m definitely not a Tyrion hater 😮. I don’t like the Tyrion betrays everyone theory and dies. I never liked it. I’m just trying to make some kind of sense of it because the Tyrion we have seen I cannot imagine doing something like that.   

I will be honest though, I would rather the unexpected ending be that Tyrion saves Cersei and is seen as a traitor and possibly is put on Trial rather than Daenarys dying . 

[Eyes High]

30 minutes ago, nikma said:

Peter Dinklage is not Sibel Kekilli. What does her reaction has to do with anything?

Because it's an example of how actors get incredibly attached to their characters, to the point of complaining about or even lobbying the writers to change plot developments they think are incredibly out of character or ill-serve the character. Another example would be NCW, who questioned D&D's choices about Jaime in S7 (at least after the fact), and Ian McElhinney (Barristan), when D&D killed him off summarily in Season 5 instead of adapting Book Barristan's storyline. I'm really not sure why you think Peter Dinklage is somehow so special or different that he would genuinely be pleased with an outcome where the character he has invested almost 10 years of his life in playing has an ending worthy of Tyrion's greatest haters, or that his diplomatic words about the show should necessarily be taken at face value. That seems incredibly naive to me.

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And you say that Peter hates S8 and Tyrion's end? Ok. 

Yes, he loves it so much that he limits questions about it, refuses to do interviews in the preseason promotion, and skips opportunities to answer questions about it.

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I will be honest though, I would rather the unexpected ending be that Tyrion saves Cersei and is seen as a traitor and possibly is put on Trial rather than Daenarys dying.

Honestly, Cersei surviving is one of the few things the writers could do would actually shock me. Even Tyrion being outed as a villain, tried and executed I can kind of understand, certainly based on the books which will have the same endgame for Tyrion, although as I said it would make a lot of the preseason promo and such look very odd in retrospect.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

7 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Because it's an example of how actors get incredibly attached to their characters,  to the point of complaining about or even lobbying the writers to change plot development

So what? If she did it that means Peter did it as well? I really don't get that logic. There are actors who sexually harassed people on set. What that has to do with anything?

7 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm really not sure why you think Peter Dinklage is special or different that he would genuinely be pleased with an outcome where Tyrion has an ending worthy of his greatest detractors.

I don't pretend to know what he thinks, but I know what he said. He said that there are no better writers in television than D&D and that they ended  GoT brilliantly.

Edited March 25, 2019 by nikma

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, nikma said:

So what? If she did it that means Peter did it as well? I really don't get that logic. There are actors who sexually harassed people on set. What that has to do with anything?

I've explained my reasoning. If you want to persist in your belief that Peter Dinklage would be thrilled with an ending for the character's he has spent 10 years playing that only fans who hate his character are excited about, that's your business, but personally I think it's absurd and that his actions not his words reflect his true feelings, again for the reasons I've said. If you want to take his statements about how beautiful he thinks the ending is at face value, then again, that's your business.

Anyway, I've said my piece. We'll see how Tyrion's death plays out, but I'm not confident.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[GraceK]

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/25/maisie-williams-game-of-thrones-season-8/

new interview with Maisie 

It’s not often you see a character siding with Sansa who’s not manipulating her,” Williams notes. “Last season it was really tough for Sansa because Jon was thinking with his penis and it kind of made Sansa look bitter. This season you see Arya teaming with Sansa and sometimes calling out Jon.

Not super thrilled with what she says  to be honest 🤦🏻‍♀️🙄

Edited March 25, 2019 by GraceK

[nikma]

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

I've explained my reasoning. If you want to persist in your belief that Peter Dinklage would be thrilled with an ending only fans who hate his character are excited about, that's your business, but I think it's absurd.

I think it absurd to claim that only fans who hate his character are excited about Friki's leak, because I like that leak and Tyrion is my favorite character, together with Cersei, and I think that's great ending for his character and in his place, I would be thrilled to act in a storyline like that, rather than to be only wise advisor. 

So if Peter said that there are no better writers in television than D&D and that they ended  GoT brilliantly, I really don't see how anyone can draw a conclusion that he hates S8, but ok. 

[screamin]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Peter Dinklage has already played Richard III. I doubt he's interested in rehashing GRRM's bargain basement version (assuming that's what happens).

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...that could be a great scene that Dinklage could rightly be proud of

He wouldn't be, for the reasons I've said.

And really, you can't have it both ways. Either what Tyrion did is truly evil and completely unjustifiable, in which case the remaining heroic characters will be justified in executing him in a departure for TV Tyrion's character so insane and extreme that no actor could pull it off (much less be happy with such a radical shift, as with Sibel Kekilli), or it was justifiable or at least understandable, in which case the heroic characters will look ridiculously harsh for condemning him to death instead of exile, the Wall, or some lesser punishment.

Not all murderers are Richard III. Not all villains are monsters. Many have understandable motives that are worthy of sympathy. Doesn't exonerate them all of their crimes. Nor does it makes all their stories alike. It makes no sense to say that once Dinklage has played Richard III, he could NEVER possibly be interested in performing any dark criminal character again, no matter how different the character is.

The fact is, TV Tyrion - however whitewashed his character is compared to the books - is already a murderer.  Dany already pardoned his patricide. He's also betrayed her once, by urging she abstain from attacking KL with dragons for supposedly humanitarian reasons, which he already admitted to Cersei was a cover for protecting his sister - while getting his queen's people killed by needlessly prolonging the war. Dany doesn't know this, but with Bran, it's now knowable. Add to that something else (say, Tyrion engineering Jon's death as the necessary Nissa Nissa sacrifice instead of Dany, rather than leaving it in the hands of fate or allowing both of them the choice) and I don't think it would be 'ridiculously harsh' for the judges to reluctantly conclude it's just one too many crimes.

Not to mention there's no Wall any more to send him to.

Edited March 25, 2019 by screamin

[Eyes High]

32 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I’m definitely not a Tyrion hater 😮. I don’t like the Tyrion betrays everyone theory and dies. I never liked it. I’m just trying to make some kind of sense of it because the Tyrion we have seen I cannot imagine doing something like that.   

I will be honest though, I would rather the unexpected ending be that Tyrion saves Cersei and is seen as a traitor and possibly is put on Trial rather than Daenarys dying . 

Sure, but "Oh, yeah, I can totally see that happening given Tyrion's downward spiral in the books, although I don't know what D&D were thinking with TV Tyrion's characterization if that was always the plan" is a completely sensible reaction in my opinion. It's the "Oh my God, yes, I always knew Tyrion was an asshole and a villainous piece of shit and it's going to be fucking amazing to see Jon execute him, Peter Dinklage is going to be so hyped to play Dark Tyrion because it's such a gift!" stuff that I meant. People are entitled to their negative opinions about Tyrion--God knows Book Tyrion has earned them--but it's irrational to me to expect Peter Dinklage to share them. Sibel Kekilli didn't feel that way about Shae selling out Sansa. NCW didn't feel that way about Jaime sticking by Cersei in S7 despite all the horrible shit Cersei had done by that point. Why would Peter Dinklage feel great about a last-minute heel turn completely at odds with everything that came before?

17 minutes ago, GraceK said:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/25/maisie-williams-game-of-thrones-season-8/

new interview with Maisie 

Maisie warns there's a lot of death in S8. Bring it on!

...She also indicates that Arya sides with Sansa in calling out Jon. Ugh.

14 minutes ago, nikma said:

I think it absurd to claim that only fans who hate his character are excited about Friki's leak, because I like that leak and Tyrion is my favorite character, together with Cersei, and I think that's great ending for his character

Usually, fans of a character are not eager to see that character suffer defeat, humiliation, denunciation and death. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[nikma]

15 minutes ago, GraceK said:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/25/maisie-williams-game-of-thrones-season-8/

new interview with Maisie 

Not super thrilled with what she says  to be honest 🤦🏻‍♀️🙄

“It’s not often you see a character siding with Sansa who’s not manipulating her,” Williams notes. “Last season it was really tough for Sansa because Jon was thinking with his penis and it kind of made Sansa look bitter. This season you see Arya teaming with Sansa and sometimes calling out Jon. 

Free Folk will implode LOL.  

[nikma]

Just now, Eyes High said:

Usually, fans of a character are not eager to see that character suffer defeat, humiliation, denunciation and death. 

Because I don't see characters as real people, but as elements of the story. I love Cersei, and I love watcing her face problems and being defetaed, I can't wait to watch her death scene, and I really hope she does not survive. 

Tyrion as traitor is more interesting to wach that him being wise advisor. His realtionship with family was always important part of his characters and I think it would be great end for his arc if that was his downfall. 

[Minneapple]

Quote

As suggested by the season 7 finale, Arya and Sansa are very much united in the final season, which for Williams was more natural to portray given her longtime friendship with Turner.

“It’s not often you see a character siding with Sansa who’s not manipulating her,” Williams notes. “Last season it was really tough for Sansa because Jon was thinking with his penis and it kind of made Sansa look bitter. This season you see Arya teaming with Sansa and sometimes calling out Jon. It felt nice and powerful to stand next to Sophie. Sophie and I are the tightest of friends when sitting across from anyone, so no acting required.”

This is from the EW article linked by @GraceK

So Friki told us that Jon goes to Arya to ask her for help with Sansa re: Dany. But maybe Arya won't help Jon out and she'll tell him to be careful about Dany instead. Jon will reunite with Arya and everything will be happy reunion yay Starks. But in a real reversal from season 1, now Arya is BFFs with Sansa and Jon is sort of the left out one with Arya. 

On the one hand, I love that the sisters are BFFs. I always said that Sansa and Arya would be important to each other's story because they are sisters. On the other hand...I'd rather see the Starks all working together rather than siblings taking sides. I do hope they work it all out. Team Stark is my greatest hope for this show.

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, nikma said:

“It’s not often you see a character siding with Sansa who’s not manipulating her,” Williams notes. “Last season it was really tough for Sansa because Jon was thinking with his penis and it kind of made Sansa look bitter. This season you see Arya teaming with Sansa and sometimes calling out Jon. 

Free Folk will implode LOL.  

Lol and Tumbler will have an orgasm 😂😂

[GraceK]

7 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

. But in a real reversal from season 1, now Arya is BFFs with Sansa and Jon is sort of the left out one with Arya. 

I’m also not liking this “ let’s isolate and be against Jon” theme. I mean, so far it seems like he comes home after doing his best to save everyone he loves and the North , and not only are his people gonna be  against him, which he probably expected, but now his sisters too? Then he gets the dealt the blow that he’s not even a Stark, he’s actually a Targaryen, by his best friend . At this point the only one whose gonna actually be on his side will seem like Daenarys, depending on how that plays out. ( and Ghost!) just saying, it’s gonna be a tough few days for Jon 

Edited March 25, 2019 by GraceK

[GraceK]

We will just have to see how everything plays out onscreen. No point getting all riled up yet 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Eyes High]

56 minutes ago, screamin said:

The fact is, TV Tyrion - however whitewashed his character is compared to the books - is already a murderer.  Dany already pardoned his patricide. He's also betrayed her once, by urging she abstain from attacking KL with dragons for supposedly humanitarian reasons, which he already admitted to Cersei was a cover for protecting his sister - while getting his queen's people killed by needlessly prolonging the war. Dany doesn't know this, but with Bran, it's now knowable. Add to that something else (say, Tyrion engineering Jon's death as the necessary Nissa Nissa sacrifice instead of Dany, rather than leaving it in the hands of fate or allowing both of them the choice) and I don't think it would be 'ridiculously harsh' for the judges to reluctantly conclude it's just one too many crimes.

Not to mention there's no Wall any more to send him to.

Well, given that from your comments, you see Tyrion as a traitorous, murderous villain who already deserves to die as of the end of S7, of course you think Peter Dinklage must be pumped at the opportunity to display Tyrion's true villainous nature, and that it's not harsh for the heroes to order his death for anything less than an utterly vile act. How could it be harsh to order Tyrion's death? Tyrion is a patricidal, murderous traitor who deserves to die regardless of what happens in S8. Dany is a paragon of restraint for not already killing him, apparently. How could Peter Dinklage feel bad about playing Tyrion as a villain  who deserves to die? Didn't he get the memo that Tyrion is a villain who deserves to die?

It's fine to hold those opinions dripping with contempt for Tyrion (as I said, Book Tyrion has done plenty to earn them), but it's absurd to me that assume that Peter Dinklage would share them. And yeah, I'm sure Peter Dinklage would be psyched to play a well-written dark, criminal character, but despite your view of TV Tyrion's characterization, that's not who Tyrion has been in the show for the first seven seasons. 

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[tangerine95]

I think maybe Maisie means siding with Sansa in the Lannisters being an issue rather than Dany.Because from Friki's leaks Jon asks Arya for help getting Sansa on board with Dany.Like is he really gonna ask for help in their first scene and she goes and sides against him.I honestly hope that doesn't happen because it will be incredibly annoying and Jon doesn't deserve that.Honestly if someone told me I'll be looking forward to WF getting destroyed just so people could get some perspective and shut up lol

[onyxrose81]

D&D love to shit on Jon so what else is new.  I don’t even care at this point.  I would think everything that he’s done would show that he’s not but apparently everyone else thinks differently.  

Edited March 25, 2019 by onyxrose81

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, tangerine95 said:

Honestly if someone told me I'll be looking forward to WF getting destroyed just so people could get some perspective and shut up lol

I hope 8x04 is just a single file of every character who survives the battle of Winterfell apologizing in turn to Jon and Dany for all their destructive, petty bullshit.

[Minneapple]

Just now, Eyes High said:

I hope 8x04 is just a single file of every character who survives the battle of Winterfell apologizing in turn to Jon and Dany for all their destructive, petty bullshit.

Just because someone disagrees with Dany and Jon doesn't mean they're destructive and petty. It's perfectly fair to disagree with the people you love. It's not a betrayal if they tell Jon "Hey, be careful, we don't really know Daenerys and we don't know how she's going to treat us. Also why the fuck did you give the North away for free?" Also, by all accounts Arya will also be sacrificing herself at the Battle of Winterfell. Maybe she's the big reason they survive. Why on earth would she apologize for anything?

[screamin]

28 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Well, given that from your comments, you see Tyrion as a traitorous, murderous villain who already deserves to die as of the end of S7, of course you think Peter Dinklage wouldn't be pumped at the opportunity to display Tyrion's true villainous nature, or that it wouldn't be harsh for the heroes to order his death for anything less than an utterly vile act. How could it be harsh to order Tyrion's death?

I beg your pardon. Do you not consider Tyrion killing his father a murder? Do you not consider Tyrion pressuring Dany out of attacking KL explicitly to save his sister - thus dooming large numbers of his queen's men to needless death - a betrayal? If not, why not? And did I say that I considered Tyrion an unequivocal villain now? I did not. I said he has one more betrayal coming which will tip his scales.

Granted, the bar for behavior is set much lower than ours for what is forgivable behavior - even lower than for Westeros in peacetime. The Hound HAS committed utterly vile acts. He's been informally pardoned by Arya, in a sense - but IMO, he still has a punishment coming before the scales can be balanced - if not by the legal powers of Westeros, then by karma.  Did little Olly commit an "utterly vile" act in aiding the assassination of Jon? IMO, no - his reasons for carrying out the killing are as understandable as Tyrion's are for his murder - and as a child, they're much more excusable. Yet Jon put him to death. Do you consider Jon's action 'ridiculously harsh' and thus unbelievably out of character?

IMO, there's a whole spectrum of possibility for committing a crime and deciding a punishment for a person than 'good riddance to bad rubbish.' One may reluctantly, sadly come to the conclusion that this is what must be done...and the punishment of such more complex villains can be the stuff of great drama. Just because Dinklage has played Richard III doesn't mean he can never possibly be interested in playing another Shakespearean (or other) villain. They're all different - just like the good guys are. And Tyrion is a very different character from Richard III, anyway, even if he does commit one more betrayal which ends up being the last straw for his character.

Edited March 25, 2019 by screamin

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

https://ew.com/tv/2019/03/25/maisie-williams-game-of-thrones-season-8/

new interview with Maisie 

It’s not often you see a character siding with Sansa who’s not manipulating her,” Williams notes. “Last season it was really tough for Sansa because Jon was thinking with his penis and it kind of made Sansa look bitter. This season you see Arya teaming with Sansa and sometimes calling out Jon.

Not super thrilled with what she says  to be honest 🤦🏻‍♀️🙄

Sounds delightful. 

[Eyes High]

13 minutes ago, screamin said:

I beg your pardon. Do you not consider Tyrion killing his father a murder? Do you not consider Tyrion pressuring Dany out of attacking KL explicitly to save his sister - thus dooming large numbers of his queen's men to needless death - a betrayal? If not, why not?

Frankly, who isn't a murderous traitor by this point? Dany is, too, by the way, so I guess by your standards she deserves to die as well, but in your post Dany appears as  the angel patiently abiding Tyrion's murderous ways and generously forbearing from executing his patricidal ass. 

And if you're waxing rhapsodic about the dramatic value of and audience perception of Tyrion's death, particularly by comparing him to Olly of all characters, it's hard to take your claims of serious interest in the dramatic possibilities of Tyrion's turn to villainy, trial and execution as anything other than a Tyrion hater champing at the bit for the demise of a character they despise, and projecting that hatred on to the storyline, the audience, and to Peter Dinklage. You've actually proved the point I've been trying to make in the last several posts, so thank you for that.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Eyes High

[screamin]

7 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Frankly, who isn't a murderous traitor by this point? Dany is, too, by the way, so I guess by your standards she deserves to die as well. And if you're waxing rhapsodic about the dramatic possibilities of Tyrion's death, particularly by comparing him to Olly of all characters, it's hard to take your claims at all seriously.

So do you think Olly committed an 'utterly vile' act that Tyrion is far above, and that therefore he deserved a death that Tyrion could never possibly deserve - no matter WHAT he does as a final betrayal (even though neither of us has the faintest idea what that betrayal could be?)

I'm also puzzled why you think Tyrion condemning himself at the end would be a 'bargain basement Richard III". They're very different characters. Richard was a sociopathic villain from the get-go. Tyrion's voyage is far different.

Edited March 25, 2019 by screamin

[Nightingale]

Maisie's comments don't fit with Friki's leaks of episode 1 at all. Jon and Arya seem to have only one scene, their reunion, and it goes well.

Does this mean she's trolling or that this is all going to happen in episode 2? Because I really thought the big drama for episode 2 would be the aftermath of the parentage reveal and I don't see Arya telling Jon off about Dany while he is doing some epic brooding about his identity. I'm confused.

Edited March 25, 2019 by Nightingale

[GrailKing]

46 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I think maybe Maisie means siding with Sansa in the Lannisters being an issue rather than Dany.

Yeah, both Stark girls know better than Jon on what went on in KL and Harrenhal, they had the eye witness view of things.

But there should be some caution thrown his way about Danearys and dragons.

[screamin]

7 minutes ago, Nightingale said:

Maisie's comments don't fit with Friki's leaks of episode 1 at all. Jon and Arya seem to have only one scene, their reunion, and it goes well.

Does this mean she's trolling or that this is all going to happen in episode 2? Because I really thought the big drama for episode 2 would be the aftermath of the parentage reveal and I don't see Arya telling Jon off about Dany while he is doing some epic brooding about his identity. I'm confused.

I'm thinking that Arya will be more wary of Dany than Jon is - especially if Dany reacts badly to the news that Jon is the heir to the throne before her. Anything less than wholehearted support of Jon by Dany is going to activate Arya's protective instincts toward Jon. This isn't likely to occur in the first episode, though.
 

[SeanC]

9 minutes ago, Nightingale said:

Maisie's comments don't fit with Friki's leaks of episode 1 at all. Jon and Arya seem to have only one scene, their reunion, and it goes well.

Does this mean she's trolling or that this is all going to happen in episode 2? Because I really thought the big drama for episode 2 would be the aftermath of the parentage reveal and I don't see Arya telling Jon off about Dany while he is doing some epic brooding about his identity. I'm confused.

She doesn’t specifically say she’s going to disagree with Jon about Dany, just that she’ll be on Sansa’s side in some matters.  That could be about any number of things.  And for that matter, her views on Dany could change depending on how things play out.

All that said, the writers’ attempts to introduce interpersonal drama in the Stark family have always sucked, so...

Edited March 25, 2019 by SeanC

[GrailKing]

46 minutes ago, onyxrose81 said:

D&D love to shit on Jon so what else is new.  I don’t even care at this point.  I would think everything that he’s done would show that he’s not but apparently everyone else thinks differently.  

I don't think they're shitting on him, but showing in one way or another he's doing what Ned and Robb did.

Sansa understood after their 2000 mile trek for troops and picking up Lady Mormont and Glover's anger.

[whoknowswho]

3 minutes ago, screamin said:

I beg your pardon. Do you not consider Tyrion killing his father a murder? Do you not consider Tyrion pressuring Dany out of attacking KL explicitly to save his sister - thus dooming large numbers of his queen's men to needless death - a betrayal? If not, why not?

Granted, the bar for behavior is set much lower than ours for what is acceptable - even lower than for Westeros in peacetime. The Hound HAS committed utterly vile acts. He's been informally pardoned by Arya, in a sense - but IMO, he still has a punishment coming before the scales can be balanced. There is still a limit. Did little Olly commit an "utterly vile" act in aiding the assassination of Jon? IMO, no - his reasons for carrying out the killing are as understandable as Tyrion's are for his murder - and as a child, they're much more excusable. Yet Jon put him to death. Do you consider Jon's action 'ridiculously harsh' and thus unbelievably out of character?

IMO, there's a whole spectrum of possibility for committing a crime and deciding a punishment for a person than 'good riddance to bad rubbish.' One may reluctantly, sadly come to the conclusion that this is what must be done...and the punishment of such more complex villains can be the stuff of great drama. Just because Dinklage has played Richard III doesn't mean he can never possibly be interested in playing another Shakespearean (or other) villain. They're all different - just like the good guys are. And Tyrion is a very different character from Richard III, anyway, even if he does commit one more betrayal which ends up being the last straw for his character.

I love Tyrion, but TV Tyrion has killed more than his father. He murdered Shai, the woman he loved (but good riddance), and then his father. Prior to that, when going to or coming from The Vale, he killed the guy that attacked them with a shield.  So he has a temper- though killing the guy at the Vale/on the road was justified as he was being attacked and he saved Catelyn's life in the process.

Tyrion's story has been getting darker as time goes on, he isn't the sweet, funny, well read man of the first couple seasons.   He's more dark in the books, but he's been through a lot of crap in the books.  As The Hound has become a somewhat "nicer" character, we see other's who become worse, like Arya, Tyrion and frankly Daenerys. She burns people who will not kneel.  Take away her dragons and you take away her power.  She'd have burned down the Red Keep already if not counselled not to.  I'm not a Dany fan. And the North won't be Dany fans either IMO, The Targs were despots and yay, now we have 2 and likely (gag) a baby!

[nikma]

I think some fans wanted Starks to be this big happy family after reunion, but that's not happening. There are a lot of issues between them. I have no problem with that, I find that it fits their established characterisation. 

[screamin]

2 minutes ago, whoknowswho said:

I love Tyrion, but TV Tyrion has killed more than his father. He murdered Shai, the woman he loved (but good riddance), and then his father.

I tend to disagree that TV Shai's death was a murder - as the show presented it, it was more self-defense. Tywin was the more clear-cut murder, though if ever 'he needed killing' was a defense, that was.

Which doesn't mean that that was the nadir of dark things Tyrion does in his life.

[ursula]

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Actors are advocates for their characters and want the best for them.

Not to sound cynical but I think most actors, unless they're really young and new in the business, are just advocates for their paychecks. 

[Happy Harpy]

I take Maisie's words with a huge grain of salt. She's the biggest Sansa stan fan, she already picked her side against the very character she plays and IIRC it already led her to say things that contradicted what was in the script for S7 (Just in case: I use this as an example of an actor's' interpretation vs script, I'm not discussing the WF storyline again. Any answer about the matter in itself will be ignored, and you can picture me rolling my eyes to high heavens).

I have no problem with Arya calling out Jon at times, if she disagrees with him. If it's about Cersei, Arya hates her so it makes sense that she wouldn't trust her.

If it's against Daenerys, I do have a huge problem. The issue for me isn't the character objecting. No matter if it's Sansa, Arya, Lyanna Mormont, Sam, whoever. Friki's leaks made clear that they all know the AOTD is here, hundreds of thousands, with giants and dragons. It's beyond ridiculous to question how and why Jon got men and dragons to fight the invasion and give everyone a chance of survival; even more since the solution, an alliance by marriage, is parading in plain sight in a gold bikini. Holding on to the Northern independence in a personal quest for power or for pride, whereas said North is facing annihilation, is braindead level of stupid.

Moreover, in Arya's particular case, she didn't give a fuck last season about the North or the Northern lords, all she cared about was keeping Jon in charge and be loyal to him. So I'd also have a problem if she was written OOC or if her bond with Jon was damaged only in order to prop other characters and create some conflict that shouldn't exist, unless the naysayers already have the brain capacities of a wight.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

Moreover, in Arya's particular case, she didn't give a fuck last season about the North or the Northern lords, all she cared about was keeping Jon in charge and be loyal to him. So I'd also have a problem if she was written OOC or if her bond with Jon was damaged only in order to prop other characters and create some conflict that shouldn't exist, unless the naysayers already have the brain capacities of a wight.

Maisie did say Arya misunderstood Sansa's actions. So would it be OOC for her to change after all that happened not just to her, but Bran, Sansa, and Rickon dead?

Jon's changed too, but he is more like Robb and Ned still; even after their travels, getting troops, and in the great hall convention.

[nikma]

Tbh Jon didn't need to give up KITN title in E6. Dany already agreed to help when she saw Night King and his army. He did it because he fall in love with her. 

And he did it alone, without consulting with anyone. 

[Happy Harpy]

4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Maisie did say Arya misunderstood Sansa's actions. So would it be OOC for her to change after all that happened not just to her, but Bran, Sansa, and Rickon dead?

Jon's changed too, but he is more like Robb and Ned still; even after their travels, getting troops, and in the great hall convention.

That's my point, precisely. She said that Arya misunderstood, the script says the opposite.

Everything that happened to her, Sansa, Rickon's death and Branbot, she knew/had lived from 7x05 on when she didn't give a fuck about the North or the Northern Lords, only cared about keeping Jon in charge and be loyal to him. So yes, it would be OOC if it changed all of a sudden in S8.

Jon isn't like Robb at all. He didn't give up a crucial alliance for the North in order to "follow his heart". It happens that he fell in love with the person who is a crucial ally for the North -it's as if Robb had fallen for Margaery Tyrell. Robb lost half of his troops. Jon doubled, tripled, quadrupled his troops; he actually did just the opposite of Robb.

Arya and Jon have in common their admiration for Ned, Arya even dresses like him; so I don't see how Jon being like Ned would be a problem for Arya.

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

And he did it alone, without consulting with anyone. 

Once more, Jon is a king. A king can consult his vassals, but they don't have a say.

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

the script says the opposite.

I ignored those, they were opposite of what they gave us in show, in the ATE and BTS shorts.

also many in interview went against them; are they lying ? maybe, but what I saw was different then those scripts.

[screamin]

4 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

It happens that he fell in love with the person who is a crucial ally for the North -it's as if Robb had fallen for Margaery Tyrell.

And if Robb fell for Margaery Tyrell while idealizing all Margaery Tyrell's drawbacks as nonexistent because he loves her, that still would be fair game for his family to comment on as an issue. I don't see it as unfair that Sansa - or even Arya - point out things they might think he's overlooking, because they aren't in love with Dany.

[Minneapple]

12 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Arya and Jon have in common their admiration for Ned, Arya even dresses like him; so I don't see how Jon being like Ned would be a problem for Arya.

Well, Ned was naive and trusted the wrong people, and he died because of it. I'm fairly certain Ned and Robb are on Sansa and Arya's minds as they contemplate Jon.