Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, anamika said:

Jon did not secretly write a letter to the Iron Bank in the books. Tycho Nestoris arrives at the wall to meet with Stannis and Jon personally negotiates with him for a loan to buy food for the NW. Jon is a very good negotiator in the books - as Stannis says - he haggles like a fish wife.

I didn't mean in secret, but for the same reasons food, get them through hard times and rebuilding.

She's doing it now, with storing food and all, but it can ( and most likely will ) all go up in a second.

I do hope it's something political or clandestine in nature .

[Minneapple]

Emilia interview with Harper's Bazaar with some GoT tidbits.

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"She starts feeling pretty cocksure and confident, and then stuff happens,” Clarke tells BAZAAR.com of Dany’s arrival North and her first encounter with Sansa Stark (Sophie Turner), which HBO teased in early promos.

So maybe she's not as welcome at Winterfell as she thinks she is. Or maybe there's a setback, Jon finding out about being a Targ, etc.

Edited March 12, 2019 by Minneapple

[domina89]

On 3/10/2019 at 4:36 PM, John Potts said:

I can't help thinking that there must be some magic protecting Winterfell that means it won't fall to the Night King (it's possible the burning on the set is done as a defensive measure). However, NK has a massive army and can just leave part of his force to lay siege as he moves on South. Maybe the shots of Arya (et al) are of them trying to cut through the lines to chase after the NK's army (maybe with some vital information/superweapon vital to their victory).

I keep thinking about the Winterfell Godswood and the weirwood tree there and wondering if the crypts, which we know are massive, run all the way out there under the tree.  This would be a similar set up to the caves under the weirwood beyond the wall where Bran et al were protected until the NK touched him.  Presumably the children of the forest placed those magic spells of protection, but could someone else have done it in the past for Winterfell?  If Bran were able to get out there so he could touch the roots of the tree and still be protected, he might potentially be strong enough to warg a dragon or maybe even the NK himself.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, Minneapple said:

Emilia interview with Harper's Bazaar with some GoT tidbits.

So maybe she's not as welcome at Winterfell as she thinks she is. Or maybe there's a setback, Jon finding out about being a Targ, etc.

She could also be referring to Dany getting the news about the Wall falling, the AOTD coming south, and Viserion being turned into a wight, as well. I think Jon's Targ parentage is going to be the least of her problems.

Emilia compared finishing GOT to taking off her bra. She is so adorable.

Thanks for the link. Emilia also promised that you would see Dany's character arc through the changes in her clothing in S8. We've only seen two new costumes so far--a new version of the white coat from S7 with more red details, and the grey outfit with red fur trim from the S8 still (and the trailer)--so not much to be discerned yet.

[screamin]

15 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It occurred to me that Sansa could be captured. Maybe Tyrion also? Everyone else could take care of themselves and escape although I can't see Brienne letting Sansa be taken. 

Maybe this is the point that Brienne decides to put into effect her new doctrine "fuck loyalty?" If Jon, Dany et al get together a military expedition northward to confront the NK (with Jaime probably going along, to boot) I can totally imagine Brienne requesting permission of Sansa to go to that all-important battle, and Sansa granting it.

[SimoneS]

6 minutes ago, screamin said:

Maybe this is the point that Brienne decides to put into effect her new doctrine "fuck loyalty?" If Jon, Dany et al get together a military expedition northward to confront the NK (with Jaime probably going along, to boot) I can totally imagine Brienne requesting permission of Sansa to go to that all-important battle, and Sansa granting it.

That makes sense. Although, now I think about. If the NK attacks Winterfell right after, how does any the Golden Company survive long enough to take Sansa or anyone hostage? 

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

That makes sense. Although, now I think about. If the NK attacks Winterfell right after, how does any the Golden Company survive long enough to take Sansa or anyone hostage? 

Is there a vaguely reliable leak indicating that anyone is taken hostage?

[SimoneS]

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

Is there a vaguely reliable leak indicating that anyone is taken hostage?

Nope, now I think about it. Mostly just speculation.

[screamin]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

That makes sense. Although, now I think about. If the NK attacks Winterfell right after, how does any the Golden Company survive long enough to take Sansa or anyone hostage? 

If Jon and Dany go north, they'd have to go relatively slowly to allow their armies to follow. The GC could attack once they've gone a few days.

I envision a hit-and-run raid where the GC attacks a lightly manned WF, invade quickly, set granaries on fire, grab whatever easily portable thing that isn't nailed down (including hostages) and leave fast, before Jon and Dany get wind of what's happened and turn back. No money Cersei could pay mercenaries could induce them to try and hold WF when winter is setting in and dragons might return in a hurry.

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Is there a vaguely reliable leak indicating that anyone is taken hostage?

Not that I'm aware of. But what else can the GC do that's of plot importance?

Edited March 12, 2019 by screamin

[Happy Harpy]

35 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Nope, now I think about it. Mostly just speculation.

I thought so, but I wasn't certain. 😃 

[LadyChaos]

18 hours ago, anamika said:

I do not think that these are their character endgames. Considering every character is going to end season 8 at a different place to where they ended season 7, I doubt Sansa is going to end the show as LOW.

Maybe I am reaching here, but I am starting to think that Friki may not be right regarding what was shot in Seville. Sophie seems to be explaining how the day went to Maisie there. And it looks like Maisie does not know what the spoilery scroll is? So Sansa maybe has a separate plot line going on that has something to do with a scroll?

I kind of got the impression that Maisie and Sophie will clearly be ending on different days and different locations.  

I can't help but still think that Sansa will die. Her dire wolf is dead after all. I mean so is Bran's, but in a way Bran has died too.

3 hours ago, SimoneS said:

That makes sense. Although, now I think about. If the NK attacks Winterfell right after, how does any the Golden Company survive long enough to take Sansa or anyone hostage? 

This is one of the questions I have that makes me doubt the 'leaks' we've been given.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, screamin said:

Not that I'm aware of. But what else can the GC do that's of plot importance?

Create drama by attacking Winterfell unexpectedly seems like enough, to me.

It's worth remembering that the actor playing Strickland is only in two episodes, which would account for something like an introduction (it seems like we get a glimpse of that in the trailer) and then an assault on Winterfell.  If the GC was a big part of the rest of the season, you'd figure that Strickland would be a larger role.

[screamin]

10 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Create drama by attacking Winterfell unexpectedly seems like enough, to me.

It's worth remembering that the actor playing Strickland is only in two episodes, which would account for something like an introduction (it seems like we get a glimpse of that in the trailer) and then an assault on Winterfell.  If the GC was a big part of the rest of the season, you'd figure that Strickland would be a larger role.

That could be true whether the GC merely makes an unexpected attack on WF (as you posit) or if they make an unexpected attack on WF that burns food supplies, grabs hostage(s), delivers them by ship at KL and drops out of the plot thereafter.

If Dany is in residence with dragon and armies at WF when the Golden Company arrives, a frontal attack, from the point of view of a mere group of mercenaries, would be suicide. Ergo, they probably mean to do something more covert, and IMO the only way they could see the possibility of a clean getaway from such an attack is attacking when the armies and dragons are not home. Cersei knew the armies are heading north - the GC would know it too.

[SeanC]

2 minutes ago, screamin said:

That could be true whether the GC merely makes an unexpected attack on WF (as you posit) or if they make an unexpected attack on WF that burns food supplies, grabs hostage(s), delivers them by ship at KL and drops out of the plot thereafter.

The latter seems much less likely to me since the Golden Company was being brought over as a standing army, to all appearances.  Them just leaving doesn't make a lot of dramatic sense, either; they'd feel quite arbitrary.

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If Dany is in residence with dragon and armies at WF when the Golden Company arrives, a frontal attack, from the point of view of a mere group of mercenaries, would be suicide. Ergo, they probably mean to do something more covert, and IMO the only way they could see the possibility of a clean getaway from such an attack is attacking when the armies and dragons are not home. Cersei knew the armies are heading north - the GC would know it too.

I do think it's possible (or probable) that they will attack while much of the army is away, but that doesn't mean they'll succeed.  Since we know that Jon and Dany's army ends up back at Winterfell in time for the siege, seemingly in good order, as well.

[Eyes High]

50 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I kind of got the impression that Maisie and Sophie will clearly be ending on different days and different locations.  

I can't help but still think that Sansa will die. Her dire wolf is dead after all. I mean so is Bran's, but in a way Bran has died too.

This is one of the questions I have that makes me doubt the 'leaks' we've been given.

We know that Sophie wrapped in Seville in mid-May while Maisie wrapped in Belfast in July, so yes, they did wrap at different locations and times.

Whatever was filmed in Seville was from 8x06, so Sansa lives until the final episode at least. I really doubt Sophie would get a tattoo of “The pack survives” knowing that Sansa dies unless she has a really warped sense of humour.

[LadyChaos]

If much of the armies away, is it possible that the GC comes to attack Winterfell, and ends up in battle against the Whitewalkers instead? Then the Stargargyens in resident burn winter fell to get rid of the dead?

1 minute ago, Eyes High said:

We know that Sophie wrapped in Seville in mid-May while Maisie wrapped in Belfast in July, so yes, they did wrap at different locations and times.

Whatever was filmed in Seville was from 8x06, so Sansa lives until the final episode at least. I really doubt Sophie would get a tattoo of “The pack survives” knowing that Sansa dies unless she has a really warped sense of humour.

She said in an interview that the tattoo meant nothing in regards to what happens to her in the show, only that she loved the saying.

[SeanC]

5 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

She said in an interview that the tattoo meant nothing in regards to what happens to her in the show, only that she loved the saying.

I mean, she would have to say that, one way or another; she's not going to admit her character survives.

I don't know whether she would or would not have gotten said tattoo, but that she denied that interpretation tells you nothing.

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

I mean, she would have to say that, one way or another; she's not going to admit her character survives.

I don't know whether she would or would not have gotten said tattoo, but that she denied that interpretation tells you nothing.

Doesn't mean she survives either, or that that she is lying.  Essentially it just means that the tattoo has no baring.

[screamin]

24 minutes ago, SeanC said:

The latter seems much less likely to me since the Golden Company was being brought over as a standing army, to all appearances.  Them just leaving doesn't make a lot of dramatic sense, either; they'd feel quite arbitrary.

It has to make at least some sense from the point of view of the Golden Company, as well, or else you'd wonder why a force of mercenaries is agreeing to kamikaze themselves at WF, no matter how much money they're being paid.

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I do think it's possible (or probable) that they will attack while much of the army is away, but that doesn't mean they'll succeed.  Since we know that Jon and Dany's army ends up back at Winterfell in time for the siege, seemingly in good order, as well.

That's the thing, though. The Golden Company besieging WF in the middle of winter, in a country already devastated by war (hence not much food for an invading army to scavenge)? Futile. Besieging while an army and a set of dragons are within a few days' march when called by ravens to relieve the siege before the people inside can even start getting hungry? Suicide. I can't see the GC agreeing to a siege.

Not to mention, even if the dragons didn't exist and it wasn't winter, a siege is a long-term, open-ended operation. I doubt Cersei has enough money to pay for so long a period in advance.

I really don't think that when Cersei said she was 'taking back what was ours' with the GC, that she meant to take and keep WF. That's a losing proposition, with both dragons and winter to contend with. So what else is there to 'take' that was hers before? IMO, a certain useful hostage - a fortunately portable commodity.

Edited March 12, 2019 by screamin

[LadyChaos]

5 minutes ago, screamin said:

That's the thing, though. The Golden Company besieging WF in the middle of winter, in a country already devastated by war (hence not much food for an invading army to scavenge)? Futile. Besieging while an army and a set of dragons are within a few days' march when called by ravens to relieve the siege before the people inside can even start getting hungry? Suicide. I can't see the GC agreeing to a siege.

Not to mention, even if the dragons didn't exist and it wasn't winter, a siege is a long-term, open-ended operation. I doubt Cersei has enough money to pay for so long a period in advance.

I really don't think that when Cersei said she was 'taking back what was ours' with the GC, that she meant to take and keep WF. That's a losing proposition, with both dragons and winter to contend with. So what else is there to 'take' that was hers before? IMO, a certain useful hostage - a fortunately portable commodity.

Someone before posted the possibility that when the GC arrives, they actually change sides.  Maybe they take Cersei's gold, but when they march north they go to help the Stargaryen alliance instead?

[screamin]

3 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Someone before posted the possibility that when the GC arrives, they actually change sides.  Maybe they take Cersei's gold, but when they march north they go to help the Stargaryen alliance instead?

Why would they, though? Can't see mercenaries suddenly willing to turn their coats (thus showing future clients they're unreliable) and fight for the side that has no money, just because It's the Right Thing to Do.

[SeanC]

13 minutes ago, screamin said:

It has to make at least some sense from the point of view of the Golden Company, as well, or else you'd wonder why a force of mercenaries is agreeing to kamikaze themselves at WF, no matter how much money they're being paid.

It doesn't, really, though.  The Golden Company are a plot device.  Wondering why they take this job is like wondering why anybody is still serving in the Lannister army after Field of Fire 2.0, a subject the show has dedicated exactly zero time to.

Strictly speaking, no mercenary company would be taking Cersei's money at this point.  Between the firebreathing dragons and (if the know about it) the oncoming apocalyptic horde of zombies, no amount of money would be worth it.

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I really don't think that when Cersei said she was 'taking back what was ours' with the GC, that she meant to take and keep WF. That's a losing proposition, with both dragons and winter to contend with. So what else is there to 'take' that was hers before? IMO, a certain useful hostage - a fortunately portable commodity.

The phrase was "recover some things that belong to me" -- the most plausible construction of that is the Seven Kingdoms.  It's not phrased like she's talking about people.  Nor, frankly, is there any reason why she'd be so fixated on Sansa, who isn't, at this point, even particularly prominent among her enemies.  Sending an army north on the off-chance they'll be able to storm a castle and abduct one person is a really nonsensical strategy.  If the Golden Company is being sent to attack Winterfell, they're probably there to try to deal a knockout blow.

Edited March 12, 2019 by SeanC

[LadyChaos]

2 minutes ago, screamin said:

Why would they, though? Can't see mercenaries suddenly willing to turn their coats (thus showing future clients they're unreliable) and fight for the side that has no money, just because It's the Right Thing to Do.

1 minute ago, SeanC said:

It doesn't, really, though.  The Golden Company are a plot device.  Wondering why they take this job is like wondering why anybody is still serving in the Lannister army after Field of Fire 2.0, a subject the show has dedicated exactly zero time to.

Strictly speaking, no mercenary company would be taking Cersei's money at this point.  Between the firebreathing dragons and (if the know about it) the oncoming apocalyptic horde of zombies, no amount of money would be worth it.

The phrase was "recover some things that belong to me" -- the most plausible construction of that is the Seven Kingdoms.  It's not phrased like she's talking about people.  Nor, frankly, is there any reason why she'd be so fixated on Sansa, who isn't, at this point, even particularly prominent among her enemies.

They may take her money, and back the Stargaraeryns because they know if they fight for Cersei, they'll lose.  Maybe, as others pointed out, they know their fighting against unsullied, Dothraki, and dragons.  Maybe their loyalties were already bought, but Cersei doesn't know that. Maybe they see the undead, and that is all they need to switch sides.

[Wouter]

3 hours ago, screamin said:

Not that I'm aware of. But what else can the GC do that's of plot importance?

Attack wf after the grand battle with the nk? Or turn tail at some time (near wf or at kl)? Or only to provide Cersei with a credible army, independently of Jaime (who left) and Euron (who has his own designs)? 

Jon and Dany could choose to engage nk in the field, but there are some problems. They would need to be confident about the nk’s location and movements and they would have to deal with the cold (wf is heated). And wasn’t the apparent strategy to gather and protect civilians and armies in wf, for which they were hoarding food? 

From the trailer footage, it also seems a large part of Dany’s forces is in wf to defend it, when the walkers come. I doubt she would want to engage tte nk in the field without her max strength, so taking the field would be going all in for a battle  somewhere between wf and the wall.

[Wouter]

1 hour ago, LadyChaos said:

I can't help but still think that Sansa will die. Her dire wolf is dead after all. I mean so is Bran's, but in a way Bran has died too.

According to Friki, she lives. Other potential leaks (bsb) and filming info (seville) indicates Sansa makes it at least to the last episode. No credible source has pointed to Sansa dying. I doubt Turner would use that tattoo if her character didn’t make it in spite of the pack uniting. And her book arc calls for a character that will have the skillset to help rebuild westeros after the war.

[screamin]

22 minutes ago, SeanC said:

If the Golden Company is being sent to attack Winterfell, they're probably there to try to deal a knockout blow.

Setting their granaries on fire would starve the North, certainly. Knockout, though? How would the GC deal a knockout blow to an army plus dragons?

 Setting WF's stores afire won't kill the dragons, or the bulk of the army. If Jon and Dany's armies have no food to subsist in WF till spring, their only course is to go back down South - to KL. A hostage serves Cersei as insurance against a dragon attack on KL. That's long-term thinking.

Edited March 12, 2019 by screamin

[BadAssRobinArryn]

21 minutes ago, screamin said:

Why would they, though?  

Because the Zombies arrive and they have no other choice? Why wouldn't they change sides after they see the army of the dead with their own eyes?

[screamin]

2 minutes ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Because the Zombies arrive and they have no other choice?

Running away? Running away sounds good, too.

Edited March 12, 2019 by screamin

[BadAssRobinArryn]

Yeah, okay. They could run away, too. But nonetheless they also have a very obvious reason to help the Stargaryens. It definitely wouldn't come out of nowhere. Their motivation is a given.

[SeanC]

10 minutes ago, screamin said:

Setting their granaries on fire would starve the North, certainly. Knockout, though? How would the GC deal a knockout blow to an army plus dragons?

Frankly, the most logical interpretation of attacking Winterfell at this point is if she's trying to insure that Team Jon-Dany get the shit kicked out of them by the Army of the Dead.

Mounting an invasion of the North to take one person hostage, when there's no way to even predict that they'd be able to attack Winterfell when the dragons aren't there, is a big, big leap.  And, as I said, the idea that Cersei is fixated on taking Sansa hostage really isn't borne by the show.  Moreover, if the Golden Company actually did manage to sack Winterfell and was aiming to take hostages, they would logically walk away with a bunch of them, including, e.g., Bran.  But it's always just Sansa that people claim is going to be scooped up.

Edited March 12, 2019 by SeanC

[screamin]

21 minutes ago, Wouter said:

And wasn’t the apparent strategy to gather and protect civilians and armies in wf, for which they were hoarding food? 

IIRC, that was a last-ditch Plan B - an 'if all else fails, your family has a place at WF crowded among homeless refugees,' reassurance. I don't think Sansa was delineating a military strategy of having everyone north of WF evacuate and move in to WF, letting their homes be sacked by the NK while Jon sits idly waiting while jamming half his population into the fort. Sansa is specifically NOT a military strategist, so I don't think she was speaking for Jon about military strategy in dealing with the NK.

[LadyChaos]

so i was just listening to a video, and he says that this was leaked to him (though i tend not to believe leaks until i see it on the show) Im just curious what you'll might think of this.

He said it was leaked that Jon finds out about his parentage in 802, not in 801, and doesn't tell anyone not even Dany.  Somehow though, Verys finds out about it and tells Tyrion.  Tyrion pulls Sansa aside, and tells her. He then tells her that they should work together to break Jon and Dany apart because if it comes out that their in a relationship and Aunt and Uncle it will undermine everything and they will loose their supporters.  She agrees.

Tyrion also tells Sansa that they shouldn't believe that Cersei agreed to the truce, and that they should deal with Cersei while Jon and Dany focus on the AotD.  They agree on this as well and chose to send an assassin to kill her.  Later, in a moment of guilt over how Tyrion chose to deal with his sister, he decides to sends a raven to Cersei to warn her. Only Sansa intercepts it, and uses it as evidence that Tyrion was working against Dany and Jon, knowing full well he wasn't.  However, she has decided that all the Lannisters need to die, or the Starks will never be safe.

[Missrayn]

For me at this point the only leaker that seems real are boatbaby smt she was the one talking about the NK motivation being a big twist and now the actor begin to reveal his plan (having a specific target) she also the one keep bringing the big episode 5 and kl battle, saying they filmed some scene first thought for the winterfell episode being for the kl battle (maybe Jaime dying in Brienne arm) and the episode time seem going her direction too. Adding, that whatever happen to Tyrion the shot of him with the dragon was for me HBO trolling about all the rumors. I would be playing my bet on her being the most accurate. 

Edited March 12, 2019 by Missrayn

[GraceK]

39 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

so i was just listening to a video, and he says that this was leaked to him (though i tend not to believe leaks until i see it on the show) Im just curious what you'll might think of this.

He said it was leaked that Jon finds out about his parentage in 802, not in 801, and doesn't tell anyone not even Dany.  Somehow though, Verys finds out about it and tells Tyrion.  Tyrion pulls Sansa aside, and tells her. He then tells her that they should work together to break Jon and Dany apart because if it comes out that their in a relationship and Aunt and Uncle it will undermine everything and they will loose their supporters.  She agrees.

Tyrion also tells Sansa that they shouldn't believe that Cersei agreed to the truce, and that they should deal with Cersei while Jon and Dany focus on the AotD.  They agree on this as well and chose to send an assassin to kill her.  Later, in a moment of guilt over how Tyrion chose to deal with his sister, he decides to sends a raven to Cersei to warn her. Only Sansa intercepts it, and uses it as evidence that Tyrion was working against Dany and Jon, knowing full well he wasn't.  However, she has decided that all the Lannisters need to die, or the Starks will never be safe.

I find it highly coincidental that the day interviews are going around with Sophie Turner saying she kept a scroll that contains a spoiler, this “ leak” comes out about a scroll Sansa intercepts. 🙄😂. 

The leak itself doesn’t make sense and is in itself contradictory. Jaime will arrive at Winterfell within the first few episodes and they will all be aware Cersei can’t be trusted. So there’s no need for Sansa and Tyrion to plot in corners. 🙄  Sending an assassin to kill Cersei to begin with is not Tyrion’s style and why would he suddenly doubt Cersei’s word ? He was fine with it at the Dragonpit. And if he does send a scroll to warn her, and tries to break up Jon and Dany, then he IS working against them no matter how he may try to warp it, so Sansa isn’t being duplicitous, she’s protecting her family and is right to want to kill all the Lannister’s and keep that scroll for proof to show them. So none of it makes any logical sense. So yeah it’s fake. 👍🏻

Edited March 12, 2019 by GraceK

[LadyChaos]

8 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I find it highly coincidental that the day interviews are going around with Sophie Turner saying she kept a scroll that contains a spoiler, this “ leak” comes out about a scroll Sansa intercepts. 🙄😂. 

The leak itself doesn’t make sense and is in itself contradictory. Jaime will arrive at Winterfell within the first few episodes and they will all be aware Cersei can’t be trusted. So there’s no need for Sansa and Tyrion to plot in corners. 🙄  Sending an assassin to kill Cersei to begin with is not Tyrion’s style and why would he suddenly doubt Cersei’s word ? He was fine with it at the Dragonpit. And if he does send a scroll to warn her, and tries to break up Jon and Dany, then he IS working against them no matter how he may try to warp it, so Sansa isn’t being duplicitous, she’s protecting her family and is right to want to kill all the Lannister’s and keep that scroll for proof to show them. So none of it makes any logical sense. So yeah it’s fake. 👍🏻

Plus, I think Kit said that Jon wouldn't keep his parentage a secret from Dany either.

[Eyes High]

56 minutes ago, Missrayn said:

For me at this point the only leaker that seems real are boatbaby smt she was the one talking about the NK motivation being a big twist and now the actor begin to reveal his plan (having a specific target) she also the one keep bringing the big episode 5 and kl battle, saying they filmed some scene first thought for the winterfell episode being for the kl battle (maybe Jaime dying in Brienne arm) and the episode time seem going her direction too. Adding, that whatever happen to Tyrion the shot of him with the dragon was for me HBO trolling about all the rumors. I would be playing my bet on her being the most accurate. 

BoatsexBaby initially seemed credible to me, but Friki has directly contradicted their account of what was filmed in Seville. One of them is wrong.

I do agree that it seems weird for HBO to cut their trailer to insinuate that Dany executes Tyrion by dragonfire if that is actually what happens. Even if Tyrion betrays the Starks and not Dany and is still executed but by Jon, it would be weird to spoil his betrayal and death in the trailer when they’ve done everything they can to avoid spoiling anything. (Ditto for Peter Dinklage talking about how death can be a great escape for his character and hinting that his character has a tragic ending.)

I’m increasingly of the mind that the actors’ degree of implied negative endings in interviews is inversely proportionate to how happy their characters’ endings are.

Kit: I cried when I read the finale = Jon gets a happy ending with Dany

Emilia: It fucked me up, knowing that that will be a lasting flavour of what Dany is = Dany gets her baby, her man, and maybe a throne

Rory: I read the ending and I thought “Thank you, George. Thank you, David and Dan.” = Sandor dies a horrible, heartwrenching death

And so on. Hard to know what that means for Peter, who said Tyrion has a beautiful ending “whether or not it is tragic.”

Edited March 13, 2019 by Eyes High

[Missrayn]

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BoatsexBaby initially seemed credible to me, but Friki has directly contradicted their account of what was filmed in Seville. One of them is wrong.

Agree to o desagree!  I mean will see but without being a expert of their leak I really believe both had make mistake but for now the fact she was the one with the importance of the NK and his motivation for the end game. Give me more faith in her and even frikki himself give her some credit. We will see at the end! But, yeah for me there just too much tyrion for not make me have doubt about that also.

[anamika]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

And her book arc calls for a character that will have the skillset to help rebuild westeros after the war.

I will have to disagree with this. I am not sure what skillset Sansa has to rebuild Westeros in the books - surely this calls for someone who has the actual experience of ruling and leadership and made the tough decisions and knows what it takes?  I go back to GRRM's quote on ruling and his complaints about Aragorn at the end of LOTR:

Quote

One thing that I am trying to get at in the books, the political aspect if you would, is to kind of show that this stuff is hard. I think that an awful lot of fantasy and even some great fantasy falls under the mistake of assuming that a good man would be a good king and all that is necessary is to be a decent human being and then when you are king everything will go swimmingly. Tolkien is great but we never get into the nitty gritty of Aragorn ruling. What is his tax policy? How does he feel about crop rotation? How does he handle land disputes between two nobles, both of whom think that they should have the village, so they burn it down to establish their claim. This is the hard part of ruling be it in the middle ages or now. It’s not enough to be a good man to be an effective ruler. It’s complicated and it’s hard and I wanted to show that with repeated examples in my books with my kings and hand of the kings - the prime minister if you would - trying to rule. And whether it be Ned Stark or Tyrion Lannister or Tywin Lannister or Daenerys Targaryen or Cersei Lannister trying to deal with the real challenges that affect anyone trying to rule the 7K or even a city like Meereen and it’s hard. You know, we can all read the books or read history and say oh, so and so was stupid and made a lot of mistakes and look at all these stupid mistakes they make. But these kind of mistakes are always much more apparent in hind sight than when you are actually faced with the decision about, oh my God, what would I do in this situation. How do I resolve this thing? Do I do the moral thing? But what about  the political consequences of the moral thing? Do I do the pragmatic, cynical thing and kind of screw the people who are screwed by it? I mean, it is HARD. And I want to get to all of that - GRRM

If Westeros needs rebuilding,  it needs a Dany, a Tyrion or even a Bran who has actually ruled Winterfell for an entire book - folks with actual experience in how a country runs and works in the books. What it takes to make trade deals and negotiate and deal with insurgency and famine and sickness. We see Dany have to be judge, jury and executioner.

Surely it needs thinkers like Jon who look to the future and plan on building Green houses in the Gift or Dany planning for irrigation canals in Meereen. Surely it need someone like Tyrion who has navigated the complexities of KL for an entire book as prime minister.

Sansa knows how to charm people in the books - so maybe that's an asset in negotiations. But apart from that, I am not really seeing what book skillsets she has that will lend to rebuilding kingdoms.

On the show, it's even worse. Though, that could be the just bad writing. Sansa is rude, snarky, undiplomatic. She divides as opposed to Jon who unites people. And she still does not have the leadership experience that other characters do.

The show has tried to prop her up as a leader using book plot points of other characters like Jon - but they seem to be unable to give her something to do that is uniquely Sansa. Take the ridiculous armor bit. As silly as it was to see a young person teach experienced armorers their jobs, if they had to have a Stark do it, why not Arya? She was there in WF. And in the books, she has listened to Mikken talk to Ned about armor:

Quote

Back at Winterfell, they had eaten in the Great Hall almost half the time. Her father used to say that a lord needed to eat with his men, if he hoped to keep them. "Know the men who follow you," she heard him tell Robb once, "and let them know you. Don't ask your men to die for a stranger." At Winterfell, he always had an extra seat set at his own table, and every day a different man would be asked to join him. One night it would be Vayon Poole, and the talk would be coppers and bread stores and servants. The next time it would be Mikken, and her father would listen to him go on about armor and swords and how hot a forge should be and the best way to temper steel.

So stuff that we would expect Jon and Arya to do and have done is what Sansa is currently doing on the show.

From Emilia's comments it looks like there will not be an Iron Throne at the end - more likely a great council. But if Jon, Dany and Tyrion die and Westeros is stuck with show Sansa, Arya and Bran as the final endgame rulers, I would feel very sorry for the denizens of Westeros. At least in the books, Arya and Bran have personalities other than killer and Robo-God.

12 hours ago, Eyes High said:

By process of elimination, I don't know who else it could be if Sansa survives the series.

Well, we have to see. Sansa's entire story in the North is a patch-work of other book character plots - except for LF. Considering Emilia's comment about Clapton's costumes telling a story, it could be that Sansa's fish scales dress is hinting at her story ending down south - she is pretty much the only Stark not dressed in a Northern style costume for season 8. I don't see book Sansa ever going North. If they are sticking with the book ending for her, If she survives, I expect her to be somewhere in the south.

Edited March 13, 2019 by anamika

[LadyChaos]

15 minutes ago, anamika said:

Well, we have to see. Sansa's entire story in the North is a patch-work of other book character plots - except for LF. Considering Emilia's comment about Clapton's costumes telling a story, it could be that Sansa's fish scales dress is hinting at her story ending down south - she is pretty much the only Stark not dressed in a Northern style costume for season 8. I don't see book Sansa ever going North. If they are sticking with the book ending for her, If she survives, I expect her to be somewhere in the south.

In the book, everyone keeps bringing up how much she looks like her mother, and I know in the beginning she keepings telling herself to act like a strong lady, like her mother. So I wonder, now that the Tully's are essentially wiped out, if she will take over Riverrun. Edmure is still alive and so is his wife and child, but no one in River Run would likely follow him after he handed it over.

[screamin]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

Frankly, the most logical interpretation of attacking Winterfell at this point is if she's trying to insure that Team Jon-Dany get the shit kicked out of them by the Army of the Dead.

Mounting an invasion of the North to take one person hostage, when there's no way to even predict that they'd be able to attack Winterfell when the dragons aren't there, is a big, big leap.  And, as I said, the idea that Cersei is fixated on taking Sansa hostage really isn't borne by the show.  Moreover, if the Golden Company actually did manage to sack Winterfell and was aiming to take hostages, they would logically walk away with a bunch of them, including, e.g., Bran.  But it's always just Sansa that people claim is going to be scooped up.

Speaking strictly for myself, IIRC, I've said every time that I brought up Cersei taking hostages that another goal of the same expedition would be to fire the granaries, destroying winter stores. I never said that Cersei's motive would be ONLY to take Sansa hostage.

Sending the GC to make a frontal assault against a couple of armies and two dragons is suicide. Sending them in a guerrilla-style strike-and-flee, though? Totally doable. That strategy's already worked against Dany once in a different city across the Narrow Sea. And taking hostages is a natural tactic of such guerrilla strikes.

Edited March 13, 2019 by screamin

[GrailKing]

6 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

Is there a vaguely reliable leak indicating that anyone is taken hostage?

No, but most are basing it on all the times Sansa and others dropped words like safe in WF, need better guards, guards that are paid etc.

[SimoneS]

7 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Doesn't mean she survives either, or that that she is lying.  Essentially it just means that the tattoo has no baring.

There is no way that Sophie's tattoo has "no baring" or that she got it just because she likes the saying. Tattoos are always deeply personal. There is meaning what the tattoo is and where it is placed. I don't believe for a second that Sophie would have gotten that tattoo if any of the remaining Starks including herself died. 

Edited March 13, 2019 by SimoneS

[whoknowswho]

5 hours ago, screamin said:

Running away? Running away sounds good, too.

5 hours ago, BadAssRobinArryn said:

Because the Zombies arrive and they have no other choice? Why wouldn't they change sides after they see the army of the dead with their own eyes?

See, this is why I prefer horses. Foot soldiers and regular folks can only run so fast, the GC included.  They couldn't even tuck tail and turn back.

I know my horses can outrun a brushfire, but dragons? Never.  Count me as the one who would hoof it away from anywhere there's that army of the dead on my feisty Arabian, post haste.  Catch up to me in Dorne....:)

[anamika]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

There is no way that Sophie's tattoo has "no baring" or that she got it just because she likes the saying. Tattoos are always deeply personal. There is meaning what the tattoo is and where it is place. I don't believe for a second that Sophie would have gotten that tattoo if any of the remaining Starks including herself died. 

Apparently people warned her not to do it and she still went ahead and got her ending tattooed for everyone to see. So that's pretty brazen of her if it is indeed the endgame for the Starks. Especially for the final season where the showrunners are doing everything possible to prevent leaks.

From EW. Looks like they are pushing the "Will Tyrion chose his family/Cersei over Dany' plot for next season. And Jaime is still in love with Cersei?

Also apparently the Hound has found peace with team Dany as per Rory McCann. Not team Stark? Death knell for SanSan I guess.

Quote

When HBO fantasy hit Game of Thrones wrapped filming in 2018, the production team had a very special gift for every single cast member – a framed storyboard taken from the shooting of their character’s most significant scene, a reminder of a shot that defined their time in the role.

“I can remember when we wrapped this year, we all got gifts that were sort of storyboards that have a key moment from our storyline,” recalled Isaac Hempstead-Wright, who plays Bran Stark in the series.

“And my one was me getting pushed out the window [in the series’ first episode].”

I would think that if we are getting King Bran because he does something big next season and defeats the NK and becomes a God King like figure, he would have more significant scenes next season.

https://www.radiotimes.com/news/tv/2019-03-12/some-key-game-of-thrones-characters-have-their-biggest-most-defining-moments-in-season-eight/

Liam, NCW, Conleth and Carice all got scenes from previous seasons.

Rory's is from this season - possibly Cleganebowl?

Quote

“I just got a scene, one where I…it’s one of the scenes of this year,” Rory McCann, who plays scarred warrior The Hound/Sandor Clegane told RadioTimes.com.

“It’s just a small scene I can’t discuss yet.”

SanSan?

Quote

“Mine was of my last scene,” Richard Dormer, who plays resurrected Lord Beric Dondarrion, added.

“Yeah, I can’t say anything.”

And Gwendoline Christie, playing the mighty Brienne of Tarth, also suggested that her best moments were yet to come.

“I can’t tell you!” Christie said. “But not because I don’t want to – I just can’t.”

Interesting that Brienne's best moments are yet to come while Jaime's is his hand getting cut off.

I guess Bran and Jaime getting crippled ARE defining moments for their characters and changes them as people.

Edited March 13, 2019 by anamika

[Happy Harpy]

7 hours ago, GrailKing said:

No, but most are basing it on all the times Sansa and others dropped words like safe in WF, need better guards, guards that are paid etc.

Not the same as leaks/filming info. Not saying it won't happen, but it's speculation/wishful thinking without concrete basis.

[Eyes High]

9 hours ago, anamika said:

From Emilia's comments it looks like there will not be an Iron Throne at the end - more likely a great council.

Entirely possible, but I doubt Emilia would give something like that away in an interview.

Quote

Well, we have to see. Sansa's entire story in the North is a patch-work of other book character plots - except for LF. Considering Emilia's comment about Clapton's costumes telling a story, it could be that Sansa's fish scales dress is hinting at her story ending down south

That doesn't really answer why Sansa would choose to leave Winterfell permanently, and if she does choose, who would be the Stark in Winterfell in her absence.

9 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

So I wonder, now that the Tully's are essentially wiped out, if she will take over Riverrun. Edmure is still alive and so is his wife and child, but no one in River Run would likely follow him after he handed it over.

Edmure is still alive, and Tobias Menzies is in S8. Tobias may even have filmed for that 8x06 scene in Seville since he was spotted getting off the plane back, so if it is Tyrion's trial with a great gathering of lords and ladies, Edmure is likely there in his capacity as Lord of Riverrun. As for how "no one in Riverrun would follow him after he handed it over"...that's not how it works. 

5 hours ago, anamika said:

Apparently people warned her not to do it and she still went ahead and got her ending tattooed for everyone to see. So that's pretty brazen of her if it is indeed the endgame for the Starks.

Sure, but what are they going to do at this point? Fire her?

Quote

From EW. Looks like they are pushing the "Will Tyrion chose his family/Cersei over Dany' plot for next season.

...which means that that's not his actual storyline for S8.

Quote

And Jaime is still in love with Cersei?

Jaime/Brienne sex confirmed.

[Pestilentia]

Quote

Rory's is from this season - possibly Cleganebowl?

Quote

“It’s just a small scene I can’t discuss yet.”

I doubt Cleganebowl will be "a small scene." 

More likely his memento is from a touching moment between Sandor and Arya or even Sansa.  

OR he was being super-facitious and the fight scene  "a small scene" is huge  🙂

Edited March 14, 2019 by Pestilentia

[Eyes High]

So the roll call of storyboard gift scenes to date:

Lena: Jaime looking at Cersei as she ascends the throne in Season 6

Isaac: Bran getting shoved out the window in Season 1

Nikolaj: Jaime getting his hand cut off in Season 3

Conleth: Varys' sorcerer monologue in Season 3

Carice: Melisandre birthing the shadow assassin in Season 2

Liam: Davos being blasted back by the wildfire explosion in Season 2

And the Season 8 ones that can't be discussed yet:

Rory: Small scene

Richard Dormer: Beric's last scene

Gwendoline: Unknown

I really hope we find out about the rest of the storyboards. 

[SeanC]

8 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Richard Dormer: Beric's last scene

Obvious guess:  Dondarrion goes one-on-one with the Night King wielding his flaming sword one last time.

[bubble sparkly]

25 minutes ago, SeanC said:

Obvious guess:  Dondarrion goes one-on-one with the Night King wielding his flaming sword one last time.

Another option might be that he gives the "kiss of life" or whatever they want to call it to Dany/Jon etc. and sacrifices his last life.

I've got to say, I'm pretty confused with what they are doing with the Tyrion promo stuff.  These quotes about Tyrion having to pick between Cersei and Dany and not wanting his sister to die seem designed to plant the idea that he might switch sides back to Team Lannister.  If Friki's leaks about Tyrion are true, it just seems weird that HBO would be teasing his betrayal right from the get go.  I would have thought they would want it to be more of an "OMG" moment where the audience is shocked.  I guess they could be going with the sledgehammer approach, like they did with the Dany/pregnancy anvils from last season.

Edited March 13, 2019 by bubble sparkly