S02.E03: Obligate Mutualism

[Mindthinkr]

Quote

The Sensates make contact with a key figure in BPO. Ripped from her prison cell, Sun sends out a plea for help. Wolfgang meets an intriguing stranger.

 

This begins innocently-ish with Will and Whispers having a chat...and we learn so much more about Whispers , Mr Crome and BPO. Some old friends from our past episodes also come back into play. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Athena
Ep synopsis

[Helena Dax]

Wow, Sun. WOW. That fight was AMAZING. And I'm so glad she's finally out of prison. She wasn't exactly unhappy there, but she deserves better. 

I love Lito, Hernando and Dani, they make such a great team together. 

A sensate from another cluster! But I don't know if I like her. 

I was there, wondering if I could trust the new boss and...oops, it doesn't matter anymore. I wasn't expecting that twist, not so soon. Damn, Whispers is so evil...

[Mindthinkr]

That scene in the prison (during the hanging) was so haunting. Boy she rocks. I can't believe that she has kept up her physical skills whist living in a cell.  

I love Nomi and Amanita's friend Bug. He's their version of IRobot!! 

What happened in front of the Nightwatchman at the Rijksmuseum thru me off...so unexpected. 

[Boundary]

I love me some Bug too.

[justmehere]

Man, that hanging went on forever. And everyone felt it. There were some great things about the fight, but I think I held my breath through most of it. That was rough. One question: if the guards weren't from the prison, who were they? From Sun's brother? -- I hope she gets out of the country.

Will seems so much stronger. Even though he has to be drugged sometimes, he seems much more confident and in charge. They all seem that way, actually. Having seven other people who understand you completely, who have your back no matter what, who believe in you, who are part of you ... yeah, that could do it. We saw their early development, and I like that it's just natural to be in a later stage, without a montage or exposition or anything to explain the time in between. This is just where they are now, and they're really blossoming.

Man, Whispers -- what a dick.

[Mindthinkr]

It was thought by Sun, the sensates  and the lady she escaped with that the three men were sent by Sun's brother to kill her. Will's cop skills (seeing that they weren't in regulation uniform and carrying tasers) warned her so that they could mobilize and help her free  herself and escape. I love that the lady kept looking at Sun with her "bankers" daughter's skills hot wiring cars and disabling her handcuffs, although she too, became complicit when she murdered one of those men. 

Bug stated that the camera in that room was turned off. I'm sure that Sun's brother paid a pretty penny to shut down the camera and allow entrance to the prison for his men. I can't wait until the group exacts their revenge. 

Wouldnt it be nice to have people that grok you and always have your back? 

[Boundary]

It might be money that enabled Sun's brother to buy all that influence but you need power too. Someone's standing by/behind Joong-Ki and I can't wait to see how that conspiracy unfolds.

[tennisgurl]

That hanging scene was intense as hell. Thank God Suns prison friend has her back, I couldn't have watched for much longer. I was starting to start itching at my neck just watching it.

I love Bug. I don't think he knows about the Sense8 stuff, but when Nomi asked him to help him break out a seemingly random Korean woman out of jail, and he's just like "sure, I'm down".

Whispers is such an asshole. That was brutal.

[justmehere]

7 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

It was thought by Sun, the sensates  and the lady she escaped with that the three men were sent by Sun's brother to kill her.

Thanks - I must've missed that.

[Mindthinkr]

That's why then, more than ever (for her brothers killing of her father), she made the commitment to herself to permanently stop her brother. He wants her dead too. 

[molshoop]

10 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Wouldn't it be nice to have people that grok you and always have your back? 

I think a lot  of people who love this show would be happy to have at least one
person they felt that connected to.  We belong to the Subspecies Homo Solitarius.

This show is a fantasy, but I could almost believe that it is something we had
and lost.

[Mindthinkr]

Yes, and that thought is sad, isn't it? Homo Solitarius...Be well. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Mindthinkr
TMI

[darkestboy]

I really liked that one. 

The new Cluster lady is clearly a villain but sort of intriguing and I liked Jonas filling in some blanks too.

Milton is a hard one to get rid of huh?

The gang helping Sun escape was pretty tense but at least she's out of prison.

Lito seems to be suffering some fallout from being out but at least he has Hernando and Daniela and I loved Nomi/Amanita as always.

Good stuff with Will, Riley and Wolfgang but they didn't do much with Kala and Capheus in this one, 8/10

[Chaos Theory]

While watching the Will/Whispers and cluster celebration party it occurred to me that in their are four guys and four girls in the cluster which is amazing in itself.  

The Sensioriun pride "Give me some pound brother" line was hilarious.  

The prison scene was chilling.   The fight scene and the "Jailbreak baby"was great.  Of course there is a bus for Capheus.  

Am I the only one who loves Bug?  

I did find it hilarious that Will and Wolfgang did the post escape planning.   I thought that was very interesting writing.  The cop and the gangster planning the post escape car theft.  

Introducing new sensates was bound to happen.  They live in a big world and having the only other ones be Whispers and Jonas was silly.  Having Lila adds a whole new flavor to the show.  

Wolfgang and Lila..,ahhh making out while a conversation was going on at the dinner table was kinda funny.  

Lito and Hernando's struggles seem very real. i do however love Dani and always view the three of them as this weird threesome.  

I also like the idea that by their nature senseates are a threat to secretsy and sovereignty.  Which if you think about it is true and in a time of 9/11 paranoia that is a dangerous thing.

In the end this whole thing comes down two different If opinions.  The original vision of cooperation and the vision of secrecy BPO is on now. That uses Senseates as zombie assassins. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

Am I the only one who loves Bug?  

Not at all, I love Bug, he cracks me up. I love how he is just totally chill with all of this and is going with whatever Nomi says, just because he's known her for awhile and trusts her to have her reasons for why she's asking him to do stuff. I really love the whole supporting cast, actually. I like the ones I'm supposed to like, and hate the ones I'm supposed to hate (seriously, Whispers can go jump into the nearest body of water), which is super impressive for a TV show with so many characters.

2 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

I also like the idea that by their nature senseates are a threat to secretsy and sovereignty.  Which if you think about it is true and in a time of 9/11 paranoia that is a dangerous thing.

I think its an interesting idea too. That BPO was originally a more benevolent organization created to help Sensates and create corporation between them and regular humans who could be trusted that was corrupted due to paranoia, some of which actually might be justified. I can see why people would be nervous about a bunch of people around the world being able to psychically link to other people from around the world, with no basis of regions or affiliation. Look at what our Cluster can do together, even if they don't actually want to hurt anyone (well, more or less). That being said, its clear that BPO has gone full on supervillain at this point, kidnapping and torturing innocent people and turning them into zombie slaves to do their dirty work, so any points they might have had are long gone. It makes for more interesting world building than just being a generic Evil Corporation that does everything for the sake of Evil. Maybe some time down the road, we will get a plot where BPO tries to rehabilitate itself?

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎5‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:49 PM, Helena Dax said:

Wow, Sun. WOW. That fight was AMAZING. And I'm so glad she's finally out of prison. She wasn't exactly unhappy there, but she deserves better. 

I love Lito, Hernando and Dani, they make such a great team together. 

A sensate from another cluster! But I don't know if I like her. 

I was there, wondering if I could trust the new boss and...oops, it doesn't matter anymore. I wasn't expecting that twist, not so soon. Damn, Whispers is so evil...

I love this trio. I like how it seems, since last season, all the sensates are now more entwined. When they all experienced the hanging it showed how close they are getting as a group, unlike last year where Lito was off alone with a random visit from Sun or Nomi, or near the end with Wolfgang. 

I don't like the new sensate, there is something off about her.

[jhlipton]

On 5/5/2017 at 10:12 PM, Mindthinkr said:

I can't believe that she has kept up her physical skills whist living in a cell. 

I can -- we've seen her keep up her training every day.

[Danny Franks]

Damn. We couldn't even put Whispers out of commission for one episode? The opening scene, with them going over his head and showing his boss that he wasn't needed was brilliant. The final scene of yet another innocent victim (plus the dead boss) was harrowing.

I wonder if they let Brian J Smith choose the song for when he finally got to go outside? Because that same song was used in an episode of Stargate: Universe, which he starred in. The montages of the sensates sharing pleasure (no, not that kind... this time) always get me. Such warmth, love and wonder. And there's that Tuppence Middleton smile again.

I was legitimately worried that they were going to kill Sun, because the hanging scene just went on for so long, with all the other sensates powerless to help her. It's a shocking reminder that they are still so vulnerable, and I can't even imagine what it would feel like if one of their cluster was to die.

Bug, and his unquestioning acceptance of everything Nomi and Amanita ask him to do, is great. Want to break some random woman out of a South Korean prison? Sure, he'll get right on that.

Lito discovering that he's no longer getting leading man roles was not unexpected. But I liked that his agents weren't being dicks to him, like most other people.

Not sure what to make of Lila yet, other than to appreciate the hotness. She seems more likely to be trouble than to be a friend, though. I guess it was inevitable that they'd meet sensates from other clusters, especially if there are potentially tens of thousands of them, although I wonder how Lila recognised Wolfgang as one immediately.

Kala saying that she was prioritising her questions for Jonah, but had quite a list, was cute. She's starting to show her value to the cluster, more and more. It's interesting that one of Jonah's cluster didn't want to be a sensate, and wanted to return to normal. That's not something any of our lot considered even for a second, so it's nice to know that they could have been upset, and weren't bound to accept it.

[jhlipton]

On 5/17/2017 at 6:08 PM, Danny Franks said:

Not sure what to make of Lila yet, other than to appreciate the hotness.

My mileage definitely varies!  The first time we saw her she looked like a Barbie, and she's still very plastic.  Any of the women in "our" cluster beat her hands-down.  Hell, even Lito is hotter than she is!

[tua20782]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

My mileage definitely varies!  The first time we saw her she looked like a Barbie, and she's still very plastic.  Any of the women in "our" cluster beat her hands-down.  Hell, even Lito is hotter than she is!

I would argue Lito is the hottest of them all so definitely hotter than Lila.

[ahisma]

On 5/17/2017 at 3:08 PM, Danny Franks said:

I guess it was inevitable that they'd meet sensates from other clusters, especially if there are potentially tens of thousands of them, although I wonder how Lila recognised Wolfgang as one immediately.

Once two sensates (outside of their own clusters+whoever birthed them) look each other in the eyes, then they can "visit" each other psychically. I don't think Wolfgang has ever experienced this outside his cluster. Lila is more experienced and probably recognizes the momentary frisson, or whatever it is that denotes the start of the ability to "visit" someone. 

[Clanstarling]

10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

My mileage definitely varies!  The first time we saw her she looked like a Barbie, and she's still very plastic.  Any of the women in "our" cluster beat her hands-down.  Hell, even Lito is hotter than she is!

Whaddya mean "even" Lito. LOL. I'm with @tua20782, he's the hottest sensate in my books (which isn't to say I don't appreciate the women as well). Now, for non-sensates, Hernando gets my vote, though Amanita is pretty much on the same level.

Lila, she just icks me out - and I can't appreciate anyone's looks (even in real life) when that's the case.

[Chaos Theory]

10 hours ago, jhlipton said:

My mileage definitely varies!  The first time we saw her she looked like a Barbie, and she's still very plastic.  Any of the women in "our" cluster beat her hands-down.  Hell, even Lito is hotter than she is!

Mileage definitely varies.  I am not usually into boys but I find Wolfgang the hottest if we are speaking male wise.  Female wise I can't decide so I call it a toss up.   Then again none of them are.....uh not hot.  In other words I would definitely jump in the orgy.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[jhlipton]

4 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

In other words I would definitely jump in the orgy.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah!!!!

[Danny Franks]

17 hours ago, jhlipton said:

My mileage definitely varies!  The first time we saw her she looked like a Barbie, and she's still very plastic.  Any of the women in "our" cluster beat her hands-down.  Hell, even Lito is hotter than she is!

I don't think there's anything plastic looking or Barbie-like about her. She looks like an attractive woman in her thirties. Just because she plays an unpleasant character doesn't mean she's unattractive. But I didn't compare her to any of the cluster, just said she was hot. Which I think she is.

Oh, and if you're looking for the hottest woman of the cluster, it's Tina Desai. She's absolutely stunning.

Edited May 19, 2017 by Danny Franks

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't think there's anything plastic looking or Barbie-like about her.

Oh, and if you're looking for the hottest woman of the cluster, it's Tina Desai. She's absolutely stunning.

That's why I said YMMV. 

Tina is the hottest woman in the cluster (to me, obvs), but Freema is more attractive.

[Lady Calypso]

I'm working my way very slowly through the episodes, it seems. 

I don't know how I feel about the new sensate Lila. I think she's going to be more enemy than friend, and her ability to now meet with Wolfgang whenever she likes. 

I thought the prison hanging scene was also haunting. I was surprised that it went on for so long, and I was momentarily worried about Sun. It seems like their cluster is still closely connected, so I had to wonder briefly if Sun died, would they all die? Not that they should, since Jonas' cluster are all presumably dead and he's still kicking, but the scene was set up in a way where I had to wonder. 

It's nice to see all of them visiting each other more often. Last season had a couple visiting each other here and there, so I love that they're all there for each other when they need it.

It seems like Whispers is someone to also not underestimate. I knew that he wasn't gone for good, and I knew that there was no way Will would be safe forever, but I didn't expect him to show up at the end of this episode. 

Bug and Amanita are great adversaries for Nomi. I feel like Bug knows enough, but maybe not all of it. I can't remember how much he was told last season, but him being so accepting is just brilliant. 

Lito, Hernando, and Dani are a great trio together. Who knew that polygamy would be explored here? Either way, I love that the trio have a very unique connection. Neither of them know about Lito's sensate cluster, right? 

I'm glad we're getting more Sun this season. We're seemingly getting some more Wolfgang and Capheus, but I'm hoping for a lot more Kala. She is the most intriguing to me and I want to see more of her story unfold. 

Seeing Jonas was great. I've always wanted more answers, and he's trying to provide them as best as he can. It's intriguing to see that there are so many more sensates than we previously knew about, and how that they really could be a danger to society, if you think about it. It's not a simple explanation, which is what I love.

[MizStaken]

I don't think what Dani/Lido/Hernando have is a polygamous relationship. Lito and Hernando are very much together, Dani is their live in hag. They aren't including her in sex. 

And no the people who know about the sensates are Ammanita and Bug and Diego. 

[madam magpie]

34 minutes ago, MizStaken said:

 

I don't think what Dani/Lido/Hernando have is a polygamous relationship. Lito and Hernando are very much together, Dani is their live in hag. They aren't including her in sex. 

 

My trans hairdresser says Dani is their fruit fly, not a hag.

#ImStillLearning

Edited May 20, 2017 by madam magpie

[ahisma]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

It seems like their cluster is still closely connected, so I had to wonder briefly if Sun died, would they all die?

That was something that puzzled me. We got that hint earlier along the lines of "you know shared pleasures, but you don't know shared pain yet."  Terrible things happen to individual cluster members all the time, without it mirroring to the other members. Why, this time, were they all uncontrollably sharing Sun's fate rather than being there off to her side or not being there at all? It can't work that way all the time, or you'd never have an existing cluster with individual members who have died.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, MizStaken said:

Dani is their live in hag.

I hate that term.  I notice that the word that used to come before it isn't used -- while I'm glad that the gays that some women like/love are off-limits, their self-hate should be too.  This word needs to get dumped with all the other __-words.

[Loandbehold]

4 hours ago, ahisma said:

That was something that puzzled me. We got that hint earlier along the lines of "you know shared pleasures, but you don't know shared pain yet."  Terrible things happen to individual cluster members all the time, without it mirroring to the other members. Why, this time, were they all uncontrollably sharing Sun's fate rather than being there off to her side or not being there at all? It can't work that way all the time, or you'd never have an existing cluster with individual members who have died.

I think their relationships are evolving, so they're able to feel more of what another is feeling. They're still separate, so if one gets seriously injured or killed, the others won't suffer the same physical injury. 

[possibilities]

But they said Kala was bleeding, so this time it went beyond the usual bystander or solely empathetic effect.

RE Lito, Hernando, and Dani: I think they may be approaching a marriage level of partnership and commitment, even if Dani is not part of the sexual relationship.

I can't stand Angelica. I have a visceral aversion to her and I hate how she never really speaks, it's all just weeping and vague hints. Even in the flashbacks, she's never given any agency. Other people in those scenes are doing things, and she's just kind of wafting around.

Edited May 25, 2017 by possibilities

[Paloma]

On 5/5/2017 at 10:12 PM, Mindthinkr said:

What happened in front of the Nightwatchman at the Rijksmuseum thru me off...so unexpected. 

I was confused about the locations because I thought that Will went to London to meet Croome and that he and Jonas were visiting in one of the London train stations. Was that actually the Amsterdam station? In a way it makes sense that Will would set the meeting with Croome in Amsterdam, since that's where he and Riley were living, but it's also risky because it let BPO know where they physically were.  

[Paloma]

On 5/9/2017 at 0:43 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Wolfgang and Lila..,ahhh making out while a conversation was going on at the dinner table was kinda funny.  

It was funny but seemed like inconsistent writing because Felix and the gang boss didn't notice anything odd in Wolfgang's behavior. Apparently he was not IRL doing any of the movements that he was doing while making out with Lila at the table, but when Will was kissing Riley in his mind in previous episodes he had his arms "around her" and was making kissing movements with his lips IRL, which resulted in his partner seeing this and asking what he was doing. There have been other examples of the members of the cluster connecting mentally and others seeing and commenting on the resulting odd behavior (such as talking to someone who isn't there). So why didn't Felix and the gang boss see and hear Wolfgang's side of the makeout session? (There was one moment when Wolfgang was in a chair trying to hide his erection, I think, but that was the only time that the others noticed any unusual behavior.)

Another question: Why do the BPO technical and/or medical crew wear biohazard suits when they are guarding or handling sensates? Since it is known that the ability is genetic, it presumably can't be passed by physical contact. At first I thought they wore suits to fool any unaware members of the public who saw them going in to get a body, but they wear them even when they are in BPO facilities.

[justmehere]

Re: your first question: Lila seems to be on a different level of interaction. She's been self-aware for longer and has a different level of control. I assumed that when Wolfgang interacts with her, he is on her level -- maybe she "helps" somehow. His own group hasn't developed that far yet.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Even though realistically I know it's too early in the season for the cluster to get a permanent win, I was so happy to see all eight of them gathered while Will talked to Whispers and Croome (plus the extended Scooby gang members of Neets and Bug helping Will get the leverage he needed) and then getting Whispers put under so that Will could get him out of his head. Loved seeing how happy they all were when they walked outside together and just enjoyed the moment. But that made it even sadder when Lito walked into his meeting so excited and then found out the studio pulled his movie deal. I wasn't surprised. I just wish that Lito had been able to have a whole day of happiness before he got that slap of reality.

Similarly, even though I was afraid for Sun, once the others started feeling the noose around their necks, I knew that Sun wouldn't die because the show can't kill off half the cluster in one go. Thank goodness for Sun's awesome prison friend swooping in at the last minute to save her. But damn! She was willing to take the fall for all the guys that Sun & co beat up?! I was hoping that somehow Sun would be able to get her other two cellmates with her when she busted out. I'm glad she's finally out but they can't hide in that lady's apartment forever. I hope Nomi et al figure out a way to help Sun on a more permanent basis so that she won't be a fugitive forever.

As much as I appreciate Min-Jung's friend letting them hide at her place, I thought dude, they're escaped prisoners so maybe don't eat right in front of the window with the curtains open!

So how much has Nomi told Bug? Does he think he's just helping her fight the man? Or does he know about the others or does he still think that she's talking to herself? How would she explain that she and Neets were going to dinner and then she suddenly knew that Sun needed help?

I definitely don't trust Lila. Plus if she and Wolfgang were so hellbent on hooking up, wouldn't it have been smarter for Wolfie to excuse himself to the bathroom for a few minutes so that he wouldn't look like a weirdo grasping at air like when Will got caught kissing Riley? I hope Will explained the whole visiting thing and how other sensates can visit you once you've made eye contact. It seems really dangerous that Wolfgang is now open to her visiting his mind. Hopefully she isn't working for Whispers because he could end up leading BPO right to the other cluster members.

I still want to trust Jonas, but man, every time he has a chance to talk to Will, he wastes so much time. Share more information, Jonas! And quit being so mysterious when you answer questions, damn it. When Will asked if BPO killed everyone else in Jonas's cluster, Jonas said, "Not all of them." It would have taken two seconds longer to say, "BPO killed X number of my cluster and the others died [insert cause of death]."

So the guy who birthed Jonas had ten clusters. I wonder how many Angelica had. It seems like there should be some sort of new sensate protocol where the person who birthed the cluster contact everyone and explains what the hell is happening to them.

As soon as I saw the woman painting at the museum, I knew she was going to try to stab someone. I thought that Croome brought her though, not that she was one of Whispers' patients.

Whispers is like a cockroach. He just keeps coming back no matter what. I'd love to hear how he went from iced to sending one of this lobotomized assassins after Will.

I don't know how sincere Croome was - it could have all been an elaborate story to get Will to trust him. I definitely wouldn't take any of those pills just yet.

Edited August 12, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[EyewatchTV211]

On 5/25/2017 at 3:50 AM, possibilities said:

But they said Kala was bleeding, so this time it went beyond the usual bystander or solely empathetic effect.

RE Lito, Hernando, and Dani: I think they may be approaching a marriage level of partnership and commitment, even if Dani is not part of the sexual relationship.

I can't stand Angelica. I have a visceral aversion to her and I hate how she never really speaks, it's all just weeping and vague hints. Even in the flashbacks, she's never given any agency. Other people in those scenes are doing things, and she's just kind of wafting around.

Just started watching this now.

Regarding Kala bleeding, I was assuming that she accidentally cut herself in reality. She was doing stuff with drinks and glasses when Sun was hanged and knocked them all to the floor as she fell. So I think it is coincidental that she was bleeding and not a direct result of their abilities.