S04.E20: Grasping For Salvation

[WendyCR72]

Two-week break until this airs:

While investigating the murder of a teenage boy, Voight finds a connection with the murder weapon - linking it to a case that he worked on 17 years ago. While the victim's father, a prominent defense attorney, tries to get the case taken over by Area Central Homicide, Voight digs back into the old case under the watchful eye of his former partner, Lieutenant Denny Woods.

[Vella]

Decent acting all around, but the story just fell flat on its face. I just cannot buy a kinship going back almost two DECADES being sold in a matter of minutes. Mykelti Williamson is a great actor and he and Beghe played reasonably well off each other, but this is the kind of story you need to set up many episodes in advance.  Bring Williamson in right at the beginning of the season, sprinkle his appearances throughout the season, show us the friendship so that when THIS episode hits, the betrayal felt by Voight actually hits the mark. There was nothing here.

And this show really, really needs to stop with the almost casual police (usually Voight) violence towards suspects and/or witnesses. I don't think I've ever seen another cop show that shows this on a constant basis and then has the gaul to insist the police violence works every single time. Come on.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Vella

[FnkyChkn34]

8 hours ago, Vella said:

Decent acting all around, but the story just fell flat on its face. I just cannot buy a kinship going back almost two DECADES being sold in a matter of minutes. Mykelti Williamson is a great actor and he and Beghe played reasonably well off each other, but this is the kind of story you need to set up many episodes in advance.  Bring Williamson in right at the beginning of the season, sprinkle his appearances throughout the season, show us the friendship so that when THIS episode hits, the betrayal felt by Voight actually hits the mark. There was nothing here.

I didn't get the impression that they were that great of friends though.  I'm not sure they were supposed to be; I think they were just old partners.  Al is clearly Voight's work friend.  I think Voight was more shocked by Woods' betrayal to the job and solving the case correctly than he was in any personal way.

I liked Erin running point.  I guess she's the most senior detective after Al?  I can understand why Voight didn't put him in charge, since he was around 17 years ago for the first case as well.  But man, I miss Antonio...  

And who figured it before or as Jay did?  As soon as Voight made the connection between the two names, the CI and JoJo's friend, it was obvious. 

Overall, I liked this episode.  It was good to see one focus on Voight again; it seems like he hasn't been the focus for awhile.  Now if only they'd give Atwater some juicy stuff too.  He was great as a guest on Chicago Justice.

[CheshireCat]

48 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

 

I liked Erin running point.  I guess she's the most senior detective after Al?  I can understand why Voight didn't put him in charge, since he was around 17 years ago for the first case as well.  But man, I miss Antonio...  

Most senior in the unit. In S1 when Jay was complaining over not being allowed to drive she argued that seniority rules, Jay pointed out that he had been on the job longer and she said she had been in the unit longer.

[FnkyChkn34]

32 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

Most senior in the unit. In S1 when Jay was complaining over not being allowed to drive she argued that seniority rules, Jay pointed out that he had been on the job longer and she said she had been in the unit longer.

Right - in the unit or as a detective is what matters, IMO.  

[dreamcatcher]

I really liked seeing Erin in charge! The unit looks kinda empty tbh, but I hope they aren't bringing anyone to fill in for Marina.

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, dreamcatcher said:

I really liked seeing Erin in charge! The unit looks kinda empty tbh, but I hope they aren't bringing anyone to fill in for Marina.

Temporary replacement:  http://deadline.com/2017/03/tracy-spiridakos-recur-chicago-p-d-1202045705/

"She’s not afraid to be the lone female in the boys club."  Uh...  Erin?

[watcher1006]

I enjoyed this episode from start to finish, but I had problems with the ending. Lindsay walks into the review board meeting with the case file implicating Woods in the false investigation and saves her boss Voight. But would that really have let Voight off the hook? The wrong man arrested, the widow of the victim illegally directed to point him out in a lineup, gun evidence planted. If Voight was the partner of the detective who committed those actions, then I would think the review board would be even more interested in the “Voight dossier” that Woods was presenting to them. A man wrongly incarcerated for 17 years was bad enough, but the murder case originally had the slant of a black on white crime, and the real killer turned out to be white. There could be further criminal investigations including a possible Federal one for violations of Valentine’s civil rights. Not to mention civil actions. To convict the wrong man in this situation required a real feat of railroading the defendant, the witness, the whole system. Was one detective really responsible for it all and was his hide going to be enough to handle the public uproar? I think the Chicago P.D. would want to have all its i’s dotted and t’s crossed, and that would have included scrutiny of Voight’s actions.

I liked Hank Voight trying to speak to Valentine and his daughter Therese at the end of the episode, going to their home. The daughter was willing to forgive, was probably even grateful that Voight looked at the case again. The father - not.

[Trooper York]

16 hours ago, Vella said:

And this show really, really needs to stop with the almost casual police (usually Voight) violence towards suspects and/or witnesses. I don't think I've ever seen another cop show that shows this on a constant basis and then has the gaul to insist the police violence works every single time. Come on.

I guess you haven't been watching Hawaii Five O. 

It is getting to be a given that the show runners show the cops beating on every suspect every time. It is a little ridiculous. I guess that is how Hollywood sees the police. 

[dreamcatcher]

15 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I enjoyed this episode from start to finish, but I had problems with the ending. Lindsay walks into the review board meeting with the case file implicating Woods in the false investigation and saves her boss Voight. But would that really have let Voight off the hook? The wrong man arrested, the widow of the victim illegally directed to point him out in a lineup, gun evidence planted. If Voight was the partner of the detective who committed those actions, then I would think the review board would be even more interested in the “Voight dossier” that Woods was presenting to them. A man wrongly incarcerated for 17 years was bad enough, but the murder case originally had the slant of a black on white crime, and the real killer turned out to be white. There could be further criminal investigations including a possible Federal one for violations of Valentine’s civil rights. Not to mention civil actions. To convict the wrong man in this situation required a real feat of railroading the defendant, the witness, the whole system. Was one detective really responsible for it all and was his hide going to be enough to handle the public uproar? I think the Chicago P.D. would want to have all its i’s dotted and t’s crossed, and that would have included scrutiny of Voight’s actions.

I liked Hank Voight trying to speak to Valentine and his daughter Therese at the end of the episode, going to their home. The daughter was willing to forgive, was probably even grateful that Voight looked at the case again. The father - not.

Well once again, the show isn't realistic. I actually that getting investigated would be even more unrealistic because we know Voight isn't going anywhere so then the whole review board would have to turn a blind eye to Voight's "indiscretions".

[FnkyChkn34]

15 hours ago, watcher1006 said:

I enjoyed this episode from start to finish, but I had problems with the ending. Lindsay walks into the review board meeting with the case file implicating Woods in the false investigation and saves her boss Voight. But would that really have let Voight off the hook? The wrong man arrested, the widow of the victim illegally directed to point him out in a lineup, gun evidence planted. If Voight was the partner of the detective who committed those actions, then I would think the review board would be even more interested in the “Voight dossier” that Woods was presenting to them. A man wrongly incarcerated for 17 years was bad enough, but the murder case originally had the slant of a black on white crime, and the real killer turned out to be white. There could be further criminal investigations including a possible Federal one for violations of Valentine’s civil rights. Not to mention civil actions. To convict the wrong man in this situation required a real feat of railroading the defendant, the witness, the whole system. Was one detective really responsible for it all and was his hide going to be enough to handle the public uproar? I think the Chicago P.D. would want to have all its i’s dotted and t’s crossed, and that would have included scrutiny of Voight’s actions.

Wasn't it more than just the new case file; it was the CI's confession.  I think the CI had a lot to say about Woods and all of those allegations are what did Woods in and got Voight off the hook.  Voight's insubordinate actions were actually just trying to figure out the truth from 17 years ago.  Woods called him in to the review board to try to continue to cover his own butt.  So yeah, although Voight is guilty of a lot of things, in this instance, he should be exonerated.  The review board also probably saw straight through Woods' accusations against Voight as his own cover-up.  

As for violation of Valentine's civil rights, they could easily still look into those without needing to continue to investigate Voight.  They have their new suspect, Woods.  And who knows, maybe as the investigation continues, they'll look at Voight again.  But for now, it makes sense to me to let him go.  

There's obviously a good bit of fiction to everything this show does, but I bought it.

[CheshireCat]

3 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

Well once again, the show isn't realistic. I actually that getting investigated would be even more unrealistic because we know Voight isn't going anywhere so then the whole review board would have to turn a blind eye to Voight's "indiscretions".

Voight gets a lot of results, so I'm not sure if they wouldn't do that anyway. I don't even think that this would be that unrealistic because it's not that unusual to criticize publicly and support internally and there probably are some who approve of him and/or his methods and/or simply like to bask in his results.

[dreamcatcher]

They obviously support him internally since he's the leader of the most prestigious unit. But if there is an official review, they are pretty much forced to admit that you know, he tends to kick the shit out of his suspects almost in every case :p They already had him under some kind of investigation 2 or 3 times and he never got disciplined so if they keep doing that, it will end up like the tired "Chief Boden is under attack for being perfect" storyline they have in EVERY season of CF (and at least two times per season).

[CheshireCat]

1 hour ago, dreamcatcher said:

They obviously support him internally since he's the leader of the most prestigious unit. But if there is an official review, they are pretty much forced to admit that you know, he tends to kick the shit out of his suspects almost in every case :p

Even without a review, I'm sure there are rumors and they know of his reputation. I don't think there's any way that there aren't rumors. That's why I think they're doing it anyway (turning a blind eye) and were happy to abandon any and all reviews.

 

1 hour ago, dreamcatcher said:

They already had him under some kind of investigation 2 or 3 times and he never got disciplined so if they keep doing that, it will end up like the tired "Chief Boden is under attack for being perfect" storyline they have in EVERY season of CF (and at least two times per season).

It never felt repetitive to me. I don't know which investigations you have in mind but the thing during S1 that spilled into 2 seemed to be done by an overambitious guy who wanted to use Voight as his springboard, then after Justin's killer vanished, they kind of had to investigate because there were some irregularities. Those are the only times I can think of. And this time, it was an old case, so three different circumstances and I'd say only one (the first one) was personal.

[MissLucas]

I'm confused about the gun used in the robbery. The CI said said the had been so wigged out that he couldn't find it anymore. Then Woods came up with the gun they placed on Valentine which was not the murder weapon. But that gun somehow makes it back into the CI's hands who kept it because he did not know that it had been the gun he had used in the robbery. Huh?

I noticed characters on the precinct we hadn't seen before (?) like Maury and the filing clerk but I did miss the lady Jay once was bribed with some honey candy. Have we seen the ME before? For a moment I thought we'd finally get Atwater a romantic plot but apparently that was just a set-up to get the kid's print to unlock the phone - not sure why they did not do that right away. Legal reasons? The whole murder plot got side-lined pretty fast which was a shame. I really liked the actress who played the girl - she did a great job.

[Ailianna]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:02 PM, MissLucas said:

 

I'm confused about the gun used in the robbery. The CI said said the had been so wigged out that he couldn't find it anymore. Then Woods came up with the gun they placed on Valentine which was not the murder weapon. But that gun somehow makes it back into the CI's hands who kept it because he did not know that it had been the gun he had used in the robbery. Huh?

 

Two different guns.

The murder weapon was lost/left at the scene or otherwise misplaced by the CI-murderer.  The second gun, the one used at trial as the murder weapon to convict the black man, was one Woods pulled from some police source--evidence on another case, the range, something.  The CI who was high on heroin found the original gun, which was the actual murder weapon again, and hung on to it, not realizing that it was a murder weapon.  Then his kid used it in his own murder

[MissLucas]

Ah, that makes more sense, thanks!

[betsyboo]

On 4/27/2017 at 1:57 AM, Vella said:

Decent acting all around, but the story just fell flat on its face. I just cannot buy a kinship going back almost two DECADES being sold in a matter of minutes. Mykelti Williamson is a great actor and he and Beghe played reasonably well off each other, but this is the kind of story you need to set up many episodes in advance.  Bring Williamson in right at the beginning of the season, sprinkle his appearances throughout the season, show us the friendship so that when THIS episode hits, the betrayal felt by Voight actually hits the mark. There was nothing here.

And this show really, really needs to stop with the almost casual police (usually Voight) violence towards suspects and/or witnesses. I don't think I've ever seen another cop show that shows this on a constant basis and then has the gaul to insist the police violence works every single time. Come on.

I fully admit that I was a Voight hater during CF S 1. But I just love him on here. I have handwaved that entire incident from my brain and now he is the abusive cop w a heart of gold (snort). I agree that he is laissez-faire about his arrestees' rights, but I look away.

Was this Woods speculating, or is this true...? Did I forget something?

Quote

 

You might wanna get that door. I've got a theory. You wanna hear it?

Sure.

[laughs] You fell in love with the tight-bodied school teacher 20 years younger than you. First woman you been with since Camille died. And she throws a hump into you. Makes your eyeballs roll back like a slot machine. [laughs] Then she starts taking you to her church, you know, where they clap their hands and shake their butts. And now, you're grasping for salvation.

 

I understood Voight to *work for* Woods. He stated something similar to the CI in the interog room. I definitely got the impression that he was a junior officer to Woods and wasn't likely to make waves. I also liked Voight acknowledging that he's trying to be better:

Quote

Mark Scalise. Man, it is odd seeing you. I mean, this is how I remember you. Seventeen years ago. A spineless, drug addicted snitch. Still, there was a kinship there. I mean, we both worked for Woods. He'd snap, we jumped.

I turned my life around.

Hm. Yeah, so did I. You know who else looks different these days? Terrance Valentine....

[FnkyChkn34]

47 minutes ago, betsyboo said:

I fully admit that I was a Voight hater during CF S 1. But I just love him on here. I have handwaved that entire incident from my brain and now he is the abusive cop w a heart of gold (snort). I agree that he is laissez-faire about his arrestees' rights, but I look away.

Was this Woods speculating, or is this true...? Did I forget something?

Great description!  I totally agree.  And, you know, as we all keep pointing out - it's just fiction afterall. ;-)

I don't think Woods' theory is correct.  We'd know if Voight had a girlfriend, wouldn't we?  They've definitely not shown anything like that.  Woods was grasping for straws.  Unless there's a little something between Voight and Burgess... ;)  (I kid.  I think.  Though I could ship that.)

Edited May 2, 2017 by FnkyChkn34

[betsyboo]

29 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Great description!  I totally agree.  And, you know, as we all keep pointing out - it's just fiction afterall. ;-)

With all apologies to Vivian Ward...

[CheshireCat]

31 minutes ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Great description!  I totally agree.  And, you know, as we all keep pointing out - it's just fiction afterall. ;-)

I don't think Woods' theory is correct.  We'd know if Voight had a girlfriend, wouldn't we?  They've definitely not shown anything like that.  Woods was grasping for straws.  Unless there's a little something between Voight and Burgess... ;)  (I kid.  I think.  Though I could ship that.)

Voight and Burgess? No. Please! No!

Last we knew, there was no girlfriend. Considering what he's been through - loss of wife, loss of son - you have to wonder how open he'd be to love anyway.

[MissLucas]

I think Woods spiel was just there to show what an a** he is. The whole thing was meant to question Voight's moral stance and sexual prowess (because a guy like Woods just can't help himself) - the implied misogyny was just the icing on the cake.

[FnkyChkn34]

2 hours ago, CheshireCat said:

Voight and Burgess? No. Please! No!

Ha, I was just kidding. Though almost anything is better than Burzek...?

[CheshireCat]

2 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Ha, I was just kidding. Though almost anything is better than Burzek...?

But not that! Somehow the idea grosses me out! I think Voight's too protective of his team and too much like a father. 

[FnkyChkn34]

1 hour ago, CheshireCat said:

But not that! Somehow the idea grosses me out! I think Voight's too protective of his team and too much like a father. 

Voight and Mariska Hargitay's character? (Sorry if I can't spell.)

[Guildford]

8 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Ha, I was just kidding. Though almost anything is better than Burzek...?

Except Linstead.....I mean I grant you, they are not as bad as Broman but not by much.

[FnkyChkn34]

6 hours ago, Guildford said:

Except Linstead.....I mean I grant you, they are not as bad as Broman but not by much.

Ha, I know you aren't a Linstead fan, but Burzek?  Immature people in an immature relationship is just not entertainment to me.  Why am I supposed to care about them?  At least Linstead makes some sense, was handled better by taking the slow route, and not thrown in our faces as much as Burzek was.  I agree that Broman was just ridiculous.  But, it fit with Burgess' character, so... yeah.

[CheshireCat]

12 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

Voight and Mariska Hargitay's character? (Sorry if I can't spell.)

If they must. But I don't really need Voight in a relationship ;-)

I also don't mind Burzek; yes I'm more of a Linstead fan but it's mainly because I'm not that big a fan of Burgess. Either way, if the relationships are handled maturely, I don't mind. But the Chicago shows have a tendency of making soap operas out of their relationships.

[FnkyChkn34]

44 minutes ago, CheshireCat said:

If they must. But I don't really need Voight in a relationship ;-)

I also don't mind Burzek; yes I'm more of a Linstead fan but it's mainly because I'm not that big a fan of Burgess. Either way, if the relationships are handled maturely, I don't mind. But the Chicago shows have a tendency of making soap operas out of their relationships.

Ha, yes.  I agree.  I like Ruzek as a cop and a "bro" with the boys.  I'm not a Burgess fan.  So yes, that's why I didn't like Burzek.

I think the relationships are just an afterthought for the writers.  They obviously want the cop drama (or fire or med drama) to be first and foremost - which is what I think all viewers want too - but then just throw in the "soapy" stuff for no good reason.  I like seeing the personal lives of the characters, it makes me more invested in them, but I agree that it doesn't need to be a soap opera.  I wish it was written better.  And if it was, then we'd all probably be fans of all relationships, and wouldn't have people who only like Linstead, or only like Burzek, etc.

Edited May 3, 2017 by FnkyChkn34

[jewel21]

I like Ruzek and he's one of my favs. Not a huge fan of Burgess, though. I also like Lindsay but don't see much chemistry with Jay so I always found their relationship a little strange. In my heart, I'd like to see Lindsay with Ruzek but that would just be way too much dating in house. She's not Burgess, heh.

[Guildford]

Ruzek's been through enough....don't wish that on him please.

[FnkyChkn34]

5 hours ago, Guildford said:

Ruzek's been through enough....don't wish that on him please.

LOL, what has Ruzek been through?  He's a frat boy.  He was pulled straight from the police academy into the most prestigious unit in the police force (or what we're supposed to believe is the most prestigious).  He never had to walk the beat or be a patrol officer.  He doesn't deserve to be where he is.  When it comes to his personal life, he had a good upbringing with both parents still alive, right?  Sure, I think they're divorced, but compared to everyone else on the show, that's nothing.  He treats women like objects and lied to his second fiancee.  He lied to Burgess too by not revealing that he'd been engaged twice.  He took her for granted.   So... what's he been through?

Lindsay is awesome.  She has her demons and downfalls, sure, but at least she's her own person.  I agree though that they do not belong together.  She'd eat him alive.  (But then again, maybe that's what he needs?)

[Guildford]

It's hard to judge any of the characters background because we don't know it. How do you know what Ruzek's upbringing was like? His parents are alive.....so are Erin's. The only person on that team we know anything about is Erin and her miserable life.

How nice would it be to know about Ruzek's family, or why Atwater is caring for his siblings, or Jay's upbringing, or what Olinsky is up to and how does Voight spend his off time now that his son is dead, it would even be nice to check in and see how Burgess is doing with her sister. Perhaps then we can make the call that Erin's life is the most terrible of all.

How exactly is he a 'frat boy'? Because he likes a joke? I am yet to see him not do his job when required. Did you deduce that when he blew off work because of his partying? Or came in late because he was hungover?  Wait.....that wasn't him. 

Yes he came straight out of the academy, he was lucky. Four years ago, you think he might have learnt a thing or two since then? He was cocky, I will give you that but if you can't see he's matured then you need to take your blinkers off. Voight obviously thinks he brings something to the table and as far as we know no-one has an issue with how he got there as long as he does his job. I do think they should have dragged out his demotion to Patrol longer, but then again at least he was punished for his actions, as was Atwater when he stuffed up unlike others who constantly get away with poor behaviour.

As for stringing Burgess along....what, when she asked him to put off the wedding twice? Perhaps he thought that was what she wanted. Were they both immature, absolutely. Did they both need to grow up? Yes they did. 

It's great that you think Erin is awesome......my opinion differs. I don't want them together either. She'd suck the joy out of him like she did Halstead and Ruzek brings a lot of the humour to the show, I'd hate to lose that. 

I guess you must hate Jay now too, seeing as he is a liar? 

Btw....my comment about him suffering enough was a joke about having to go through that Roman/Burgess horror story.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Guildford
poor grammer

[FinnishViewer]

Quote

he's the leader of the most prestigious unit.

What exactly is the role of the Intelligence unit? I'm not sure if that's ever been explained. Does such a unit even exist in real life in Chicago PD?

[Raja]

1 hour ago, FinnishViewer said:

What exactly is the role of the Intelligence unit? I'm not sure if that's ever been explained. Does such a unit even exist in real life in Chicago PD?

I think in real life that they were supposed to go after the high end organized armed robbery crews. Like Al Pacino's LAPD Robbery Homicide section in the movie Heat

[watcher1006]

2 hours ago, FinnishViewer said:

What exactly is the role of the Intelligence unit? I'm not sure if that's ever been explained. Does such a unit even exist in real life in Chicago PD?

I've also wondered about the organization of the Intelligence Unit. For most of the show's run there were two uniformed cops apparently associated with the unit, one of them being Burgess, who answered to Platt. Her original partner was Atwater who moved to the Intelligence Unit itself. Thereafter Burgess had a couple of partners, notably Roman until she finally got put into the Intelligence squad room herself. Since then, we don't seem to have any uniforms specifically associated with Voight's unit. Are we supposed to assume they are still there in the background?

[FnkyChkn34]

8 hours ago, Guildford said:

It's hard to judge any of the characters background because we don't know it. How do you know what Ruzek's upbringing was like? ...

How nice would it be to know about Ruzek's family, ...

He's talked about his life, living with his mom, and we've met his dad.  He called him "Pops" and they seemed to get along fine except when his dad was on an ego trip.  

I agree that we need to know more about Atwater.  He's the most under-utilized character with the most potential, in my opinion. 

And did Ruzek skip to party or come in late hungover?  No, he walked off the job for months, without permission, and went undercover so no one could find him just because his ex-fiancee was promoted.  That's mature?  Jay may have lied, which was wrong and stupid, yes - but at least he talked to Erin and we are supposed to believe he's getting help for his PTSD and divorce.  Ruzek ran away; he should still be on patrol.  Has he learned anything in 4 years?  Maybe... not much.

Also, I think Al, (Antonio,) Erin and Jay are able to "get away" with a lot more because of their ranks - they are all detectives with seniority and experience.  Ruzek and Atwater get in more trouble because they are still officers, learning the job, and haven't passed the detective test yet.  There's not even any indication that Ruzek is taking it; Atwater made a comment last week but that may have just been a story for the ME.

 

I had a new thought about the new detective and her undercover assignment.  Maybe it was related to Ruzek's?  SO they already know each other and have a history.  Then they can have a little fling (or maybe they already did) and now we've just turned the entire show into "As the Chicago PD Turns" or "Days of Our Chicago PD."

[dreamcatcher]

I agree that Ruzek is the one who doesn't "deserve" his job. I personally like him, but I also like Burgess and Erin (I may have said it before, but Sophia is the reason I started watching PD in the first place). However, I think that the hate Burgess gets is unfair. Maybe it's Marina's fault (again, personally I like her but I understand that some people may be put off of a character simply because they can't stand the actor) or the fact that she's supposed to be a super cop and people don't like that. But she proved herself. She was a patrolman before Ruzek even got into the police academy. She was shot and could have taken a position in Intelligence and she herself said that she thinks she still has a lot to learn in her current position. I get not liking her, but I've seen way too many people saying that this woman with real experience doesn't deserve a spot on Intelligence, while claiming that Ruzek "learned so much upstairs so he clearly earned his spot". No, he didn't. He learnt a lot, just like Kim and Atwater did. Yet, those two already had the experience required to get them upstairs on their own merit so supporting Ruzek but not the others doesn't make sense. I'm not talking about personal preference, I just don't like this "argument" that Ruzek earned his spot and Kim didn't.

And I know that most people don't like to talk about that, but for me it's clear that it's always the female characters who get hate for being "too good". To some extent I think it's the writers' fault because most tv writers can't write a multidimensional woman. But while Erin and Kim always get hate for being too much, too good, "supercops" etc, the guys can do no wrong. I mean, I don't remember which episode it was, but I remember Jay sliding over (?) a car as he was chasing down a suspect, which I'm pretty sure is something no human can actually pull off without getting hit by said car. Even though I love Jay and I could watch 50 minutes of him chasing down suspects every week with no complaint, it was such a weird scene. If that was Erin or Kim, we would have people claiming that once again they are portrayed as super cops etc.

[FnkyChkn34]

5 minutes ago, dreamcatcher said:

I agree that Ruzek is the one who doesn't "deserve" his job. I personally like him, but I also like Burgess and Erin (I may have said it before, but Sophia is the reason I started watching PD in the first place). However, I think that the hate Burgess gets is unfair. Maybe it's Marina's fault (again, personally I like her but I understand that some people may be put off of a character simply because they can't stand the actor) or the fact that she's supposed to be a super cop and people don't like that. ... I'm not talking about personal preference, I just don't like this "argument" that Ruzek earned his spot and Kim didn't.

I don't entirely hate Ruzek, he seems like he'd be fun to get a drink with - but I totally agree that if one member of that unit doesn't belong, it's still him.  I agree that Kim "earned" her spot to be there, even though I don't care for her.  (And it has nothing to do with the actress; she seems lovely.)  I can't stand how Kim the character is written sometimes.  I think I said a while ago that her shaking her hips while directing traffic was the last straw for me; so ridiculous.  She also seems to make a lot of bad decisions.

I would watch 50 minutes of Jesse Lee Soffer reading the phone book... but I know exactly what you are saying.  Women always get the shaft.  Aggressive men are successful and "good at their jobs;" aggressive women are just "bitches."  Happens in real life, too, unfortunately.

I started watching this show after the crossover with Severide's stolen car/hit and run.  I think Voight, Erin, and Jay are the reasons I started watching.  I've binged watched the entire series in the past 5 months though, so it's not like I haven't seen all seasons.   

[CheshireCat]

9 hours ago, Guildford said:

It's hard to judge any of the characters background because we don't know it. How do you know what Ruzek's upbringing was like? His parents are alive.....so are Erin's. The only person on that team we know anything about is Erin and her miserable life.

How nice would it be to know about Ruzek's family, or why Atwater is caring for his siblings, or Jay's upbringing, or what Olinsky is up to and how does Voight spend his off time now that his son is dead, it would even be nice to check in and see how Burgess is doing with her sister. Perhaps then we can make the call that Erin's life is the most terrible of all.

I don't think anyone is saying that Lindsay has the most terrible life of all but there is little that is worse than the way she grew up. Or I should probably say, other bad ways of growing up are equally worse, just in a different way.

That said, none of the characters seem to have particularly happy backgrounds, Atwater must have lost his parents at some point, we only know about Ruzek's dad, I think, Olinsky and his wife are estranged and Jay has/had a tense relationship with his father.

Now, we don't know why they focused on Lindsay. It might just have happened. The thing is, it did happen and none of us can change it. Would it be nice to know a little more about the other characters? Sure. But that they're only giving us bits and pieces of the other characters doesn't change the fact that the way Lindsay grew up sucks and that some of it is portrayed very realistically. While some parts may not have been followed through properly, it's not just a "sob story". Bonnie's behavior is spot on, for example. Things Lindsay has told like the time she was covering for her mother when the teacher thought she had a drinking problem - absolutely accurate behavior. Lindsay's basic behavior to her mom, totally credible since she's not been in therapy.

Edited May 8, 2017 by CheshireCat

[Chas411]

Quote

 think I said a while ago that her shaking her hips while directing traffic was the last straw for me; so ridiculous.  

I remember this!! I think it was done so Ruzek could see Kim's sexy side but oh my god it was so cringe. I blame atrocious writing on that one. I pity Marina trying to make that work. 

[SnarkySheep]

On 5/3/2017 at 1:02 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

Voight and Mariska Hargitay's character? (Sorry if I can't spell.)

Yep, me too...I always thought he and Benson had a good connection. And, as we've seen in past episodes, they are clearly in regular touch (sharing info about the serial killer, her sending him whiskey when he got shot, etc.)

Re: Lindsay being in charge - I didn't really get a clear sense of her being more senior than the others (wouldn't that be Al?) If nothing else, it smacks of nepotism. Even if the others didn't dare say anything out loud, I'd be willing to bet they were thinking it...

[dreamcatcher]

I don't think that Erin was chosen as the leader in general, coming after Voight. My guess at least is that each case has a case leader, which makes sense because one of them should be in charge and be the one who's going to write the reports. And also I don't think Olinsky wants any kind of leadership role. That's why Antonio was second in command and obviously Al was his senior too.

[watcher1006]

16 minutes ago, dreamcatcher said:

And also I don't think Olinsky wants any kind of leadership role. That's why Antonio was second in command and obviously Al was his senior too.

I agree 100% with this. Olinsky seems to me to have always wanted to maintain a low profile and do what he do his job while staying in the background.