Season 1 Talk

[Thrifty]

1 hour ago, MV007 said:

I don't think she committed suicide because she was on the list.  It was a moment that contributed in her downward spiral.  This was her telling her story.

I read a plot synopsis on Wikipedia (because this show is so godawful that I didn't have the patience to watch the whole season).  So I did see that things get worse.  I still don't like Hannah though.  Or suicidal teenagers in general.

[GreekGeek]

I admit that I felt let down by Clay's tape. I thought there was going to be some sort of horrible act of betrayal the way Tony kept going on about it. Turns out all he did was...get out when she said to, instead of reading her mind and staying to comfort her. Isn't that the kind of "no means yes" thinking that leads to big trouble in other situations? But I did feel sad about "Why didn't you say this when I was alive?"

[Perviano]

On 4/9/2017 at 0:26 PM, Racj82 said:

There is a special place in hell for the character of Bryce or anyone like him in the real. 

hehe

[lilly6]

I'm not sure what to think about this show.  Time after time, episode after episode, it felt like a poor man's My So-Called Life to me.  

Maybe I am just too old, but I found Hannah whiny.  The rape aside, I know people (myself included) that were bullied in high school to an extent far greater than anything Hannah experienced, and we made it out.  Yes, underlying depression is supposed to be at the heart of her difficulties but she didn't really seem like a depressed person to me, just a moody, oversensitive teenager.  Many girls who were bullied in high school would have loved to have her looks, her clothes, her parents' support and encouragement, a car to drive, friends (albeit imperfect ones) and boys who were interested in her.  I thought the slut shaming bit with Justin was a bit overdone and incongruent.  The other girls were readily having sex with their boyfriends so the rumor that Hannah and Justin got to third on the first date just didn't seem like it would that shocking or jarring.  If the damage to Hannah's reputation was supposed to be a huge event in her life, it was underdeveloped. 

Maybe it's because I am now the parent of a teenager, but the scene where Kate Walsh's character finds Hannah in the tub was the only one that really hit me hard emotionally.

Edited August 3, 2017 by lilly6

[Thrifty]

Jumped ahead to the last episode and read the plot synopsis of the series to see if this could make it Hannah seem more sympathetic.  It didn't.

A lot of bad stuff happened to her, it sucks that happened.  But the last tape was made for that guidance counselor to say "See!  An apathetic mean adult drove me to this!  Go destroy his career now!  Enact my revenge!"

And I watched the scene with the guidance counselor, and what I saw was a caring man, who made a few tactless calls, but a man who was still trying to help.  Hannah decided to speak in vague terms.  She refused to give the name of her rapist, refused to press charges, refused to do anything but speak in those bullshit riddles ever damn character in this show loves to speak in.  Somehow the guidance counselor was supposed to... what?  Read her mind?  Kick the guy out of school and throw him into the jail cell himself?

What a wretched girl and a wretched show.

 

On 4/24/2017 at 9:59 AM, MV007 said:

I thought Mr. Porter was doing ok until he started talking about moving on.  I just can't imagine telling a young girl who is opening up for the first time about a sexual assault that she only has two options and that one of them is to just move on.  

She did have only two options, and she outright refused to take the one that was not moving on.

People say that Mr. Porter should have done more, but they only say that now because of the suicide.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Her vagueness could have easily led to nothing more.  I've been tired of life for 12 years, but I've managed to avoid killing myself.

[MV007]

5 minutes ago, Thrifty said:

She did have only two options, and she outright refused to take the one that was not moving on.

People say that Mr. Porter should have done more, but they only say that now because of the suicide.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Her vagueness could have easily led to nothing more.  I've been tired of life for 12 years, but I've managed to avoid killing myself.

I would say the critique of Mr. Porter is not about blaming him for her suicide.  It's about pointing out that he did not do a good job and he could've done better.  Everyone involved in this thing could've done better including Hannah.  And I don't think she only had two options.  I think he properly suggested she go to the authorities.  But that wasn't the only option aside from moving on.  She could've told her mother.  She could've looked for professional help.  These are things Mr. Porter should have said.  The last thing he should've said, aside from I don't believe you, is move on.  At least imo.  It's about tact and timing.  Of course at some point in Hannah's life she was going to have to move forward from this.  But in this context its about helping her move forward not telling her to just do it.

Edited August 16, 2017 by MV007

[DittyDotDot]

2 minutes ago, Thrifty said:

She did have only two options, and she outright refused to take the one that was not moving on.

People say that Mr. Porter should have done more, but they only say that now because of the suicide.  Hindsight is 20/20.  Her vagueness could have easily led to nothing more.  I've been tired of life for 12 years, but I've managed to avoid killing myself.

Actually, there were other options for Hannah, she just didn't believe she had any other options than the two Mr. Porter gave her. 

I don't know if there was anything more Mr. Porter could've done--it may have all turned out the same anyway--but I do think there are things he should've done in his capacity as school counselor. At the very least, he should've turned off his phones and made Hannah feel like what she was telling him was important. But, I just think he was out of his league and inexperienced to deal with this sort of trauma. So, I don't think it's Mr. Porter's fault Hannah committed suicide, but I do think Mr. Porter himself feels he didn't handle it correctly and partially blames himself. 

For me, the point of the series isn't who is at fault, but that suicide doesn't happen in a vacuum. Mr. Porter was one of many people who could've made a difference in the outcome here, they just were unprepared for the situation and weren't aware they could make a difference. That's why I say Hannah's suicide is no one's fault but also everyone's fault. 

[Thrifty]

2 hours ago, MV007 said:

I would say the critique of Mr. Porter is not about blaming him for her suicide.  It's about pointing out that he did not do a good job and he could've done better.  Everyone involved in this thing could've done better including Hannah.

Maybe in hindsight.  We're all geniuses in hindsight.  Everyone who died on 9/11 would be alive if they'd just stayed home that day.  They had that option.  Of course, they didn't exercise it because they had no idea they'd be killed in an act of domestic terrorism.  So I don't see the point of saying "well.... he could've done better" just because all the genius options appeared in hindsight. 

 

Suicide is such a not serious thing.  People say it out of frustration, or temporary despair, or to get attention.  It's not until someone actually commits suicide that people are like "omg why didn't you stop this!!!?!?!?"

[MV007]

7 minutes ago, Thrifty said:

Maybe in hindsight.  We're all geniuses in hindsight.  Everyone who died on 9/11 would be alive if they'd just stayed home that day.  They had that option.  Of course, they didn't exercise it because they had no idea they'd be killed in an act of domestic terrorism.  So I don't see the point of saying "well.... he could've done better" just because all the genius options appeared in hindsight. 

 

Suicide is such a not serious thing.  People say it out of frustration, or temporary despair, or to get attention.  It's not until someone actually commits suicide that people are like "omg why didn't you stop this!!!?!?!?"

Yea, I'm not using the suicide as a justification for criticizing him.  Regardless of whether she committed suicide or not I still think he did a poor job.  I also don't think it takes a genius to know not to tell a rape victim she has to tell the cops or move on.  

[Thrifty]

20 minutes ago, MV007 said:

Yea, I'm not using the suicide as a justification for criticizing him.  Regardless of whether she committed suicide or not I still think he did a poor job.  I also don't think it takes a genius to know not to tell a rape victim she has to tell the cops or move on.  

I'm still not seeing any other options.  Report it or don't report it.  She refused to report it.  I guess the third option might have been "leave a bunch of tapes, kill yourself, and set up some sort of posthumous blackmail scheme"?

[MV007]

1 minute ago, Thrifty said:

I'm still not seeing any other options.  Report it or don't report it.  She refused to report it.  I guess the third option might have been "leave a bunch of tapes, kill yourself, and set up some sort of posthumous blackmail scheme"?

She should've been referred to a trained professional the second she indicated she was sexually assaulted.  If you are Mr. Porter you cannot allow her to leave that room without referring her to a more qualified person to deal with that issue.

[DittyDotDot]

35 minutes ago, MV007 said:

She should've been referred to a trained professional the second she indicated she was sexually assaulted.  If you are Mr. Porter you cannot allow her to leave that room without referring her to a more qualified person to deal with that issue.

Exactly.

1 hour ago, Thrifty said:

Maybe in hindsight.  We're all geniuses in hindsight.  Everyone who died on 9/11 would be alive if they'd just stayed home that day.  They had that option.  Of course, they didn't exercise it because they had no idea they'd be killed in an act of domestic terrorism.  So I don't see the point of saying "well.... he could've done better" just because all the genius options appeared in hindsight.

This isn't really the same thing though. The options did not come out in hindsight, they were there all along. IMO, Mr. Porter should've been better prepared for a teenage girl to walk into his office saying she had been raped. This was his job; he was the school counselor not just some random substitute teacher. That's what all the training required to do this job is for.

Edited August 16, 2017 by DittyDotDot

[insubordination]

I just watched it over the past week. Powerful show, but with frustrating pacing. Liked the casting. Suicide isn't often the subject of TV drama. I am over 40 and the last time I remember seeing it discussed on TV in a high school setting was Degrassi High.  I liked seeing which kids were of good character and what all their motives were. I enjoyed Clay attempting to hold them to account, while doing questionable things himself. 

I didn't like things being withheld from the viewer (the gunshot victim after threats of "ending Clay"/Tony's motives).

One oddity though - the parents of Hannah seemed like basically good people. It's confusing that a kid with parents like that didn't have some hope. I think the show would have been stronger if there had been tension/neglect/abuse there. 

Jessica and Alex obviously had some problems in their home. Justin's mother siding with his abuser was just heartbreaking and explained why Justin is the way he is.  I just thought that Hannah's  parents would be a tape...but they just seemed too good to me.

Yes, Porter did the wrong thing.  I thought the actor played the ambiguity well throughout the series, and I'm glad we got the scene of him holding his baby. For me the worst is that he suggested that 'the senior' would graduate shortly, implying that didn't matter that she wasn't safe in the interim.  Sadly, this is why victims don't report stuff. They would prefer to remove themselves from the situation (ie quitting a job)  than be scrutinised or not believed or have to be around their abuser.  They may have the fear that the perpetrator will get away with it in spite of the complaint - and they often do.

I fear even if she had mentioned Bryce's name, the Brian Weber (was he the principal?) would have hushed it up.  I don't mind that Hannah did not say the right things when with Porter. He is the adult here. Still, I don't blame him.

Edited September 8, 2017 by insubordination

[Grace19]

I am intrigued by this show, but I really really hate Hannah, she us so manipulative and a bully herself.

[Grace19]

On 4/16/2017 at 10:44 PM, shelley1234 said:

 

I am disappointed with Clay sending that nude pic of Tyler.   Sure, kid is a creeper...but Clay just let his anger turn himself into him.   Did he not listen to Hannah that one small thing, one picture can change your life and just make it not worth living.   Good job Clay.  Asshole.  

I am disappointed too. Clay, you are better than that, don't let Hannah turn you into a bad guy.

I'm sorry, I still don't like Hannah. She already confronted Tyler and actually saw the person stalking her, why didn't she report him? She rather plan all this for weeks, kill herself and have the tapes sent to these people so she could mess up their lives. She could leave all these tapes but not even a note for her parents. I'm sorry, Hannah is a bully and a psychopath.

I hate this character with Passion. Suicide is the most selfish thing anyone could ever do, but when its turned into a game to get back at the people that hurt you, it becomes something disturbing. No matter what Hannah gose through in the future episodes, I'm never going to like her.

 

On 5/1/2017 at 3:53 AM, Vella said:

For Clay to take a picture of Tyler NAKED was bad(and Tyler just leaves his blinds open like that, after already dealing with rocks? Come on show.), to send it to a bunch of other kids was horrendous, exactly the opposite of what Hannah wanted.  

I love Clay and hate what he did, I agree with everything you wrote except for Hannah not wanting that. I don't buy it, its a shame what happened to her, but she was not a good person and was very manipulative. Someone that took time to plan this, knew exactly what she was doing. Using her suicide as payback and not leaving anything for her parents? She is not that innocent.

[Grace19]

Still don't like Hannah. I am yet to be convinced that Hannah killed herself because of what the already mentioned people did to her. So far, she've confronted everyone that hurt her. Tyler, Justin, Jessica and Courtney. Jessica even apologized here for slapping her. 

It seems that something terrible later happened to her and that's why she killed herself, but she decided that if she was going to die, that everyone who hurt her in the past would suffer even though she confronted some of them. I think Hannah loved seeing herself as a victim and her ultimate end game is that she wants these people to kill themselves too. I hate this character.

[Grace19]

This is the first time I felt for Hannah, still don't like her. I hope Sherri is not a bad person, I like her and Clay together.

[Grace19]

On 4/1/2017 at 6:03 PM, ban1o said:

Good episode. Two things concerning Jessica getting raped. One. What was stopping Hannah from saying anything. This really bothered me. Even if she was too scared to stop the rape from happening she could have at least told Jessica after wards instead of on tape for everybody to hear.  This just made me feel like Hannah wasn't much better than Justin in that regard.

she isn't, what she did is not different from what Justin did, they were too scared that they didn't help a girl in need, bunch of cowards and to think that she blamed Justin not stopping the rape as part of why she killed herself while he did nothing too, SMH. 

On 6/22/2017 at 5:38 AM, Adira said:

This episode really bothered me.  I don't understand how Hannah could have witnessed what happened to Jessica, not done anything about it (either during or after), and then dedicated her SECOND TAPE to blaming Jessica for her death!  Yes, Jessica was a shitty friend and did some shitty things to Hannah in the beginning, but what she was did was NOTHING compared to what happened to Jessica (partly because of Hannah's own inaction).

Thank you!  at this point I care more about Jessica and Clay than I care about Hannah. the only thing Jessica did was to blame her for her breakup with Alex and slapped her, which she later apologized for. Hannah saw a girl being raped and did nothing, then she outed her on a tape for everyone to hear about. just imagine if Hannah was the one that was raped and Jessica saw it and didn't do anything, we all know how that tape would sound like. What Hannah and Justine did here is worse than what most of this kids did to her.
 

[Grace19]

Oh God, why Jeff? one of the few people i like. This really hit me hard, what a waste of a young life.

I don't really blame Sherri, Jeff was not far behind her, even if she made the call it wouldn't have stopped what happen, I get why she was sacred. I still don't get why this tape was made for Sherri, Hannah could have reported what happened and she was there, was she blaming Sherri for not coming forward even though they but were guilty of that? and she is twice guilty because she didn't come forward with what happened to Jessica either. What exactly is Hannah's end game? mass suicide?
 

[Grace19]

On 4/2/2017 at 9:39 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I do think Tony was trying to get the point across that they were all responsible and that they all killed Hannah in a way.

I am sorry, Hannah's death is not on all of them, not Jessica, not Alex, not Sherri, not Zack and definitely not Clay. I hate that this show is trying to put this on Clay of all people. its not upto clay to help someone that didn't want it. She told him to leave, he left and she had the guts to ask him why he left? i'm back to hating Hannah, that she's dead doesn't mean I have to agree with everything she did. Hannah was a smart girl, she knew what this would do to Clay and she did it and put him on this tape, made him guilty and almost suicidal. she wants everyone to suffer like she did.

Hannah is right about one thing, she doesn't deserve Clay, she would have taken him down with her, no teenager has to deal with another teenager with mental issues, Hannah needed help, and none of these kids were qualified or in good head-space to help her. I know no parent would want that burden on their teenage child. So I'm mad at Hannah and Tony for blaming Clay. Thank God that Clay dodged that bullet, Hannah was a handful.

I really felt for Clay and Jessica here, glad that Justin finally told the truth. poor Clay, poor Jessica and poor Jeff who I miss so much.
 

 

On 4/24/2017 at 2:12 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I'm totally fine with you putting Jessica higher on the list for several reasons. As you said, her rape was a terrible thing and no one deserves to be raped, but her rape also doesn't negate the things she said and did to Hannah both before and after she was raped. She wasn't a very good friend to Hannah outside of their initial friendship with Alex at Monet's. She didn't seem to show any remorse for sneaking around behind Hannah's back to be with Alex and she then took her anger at Alex about the list out on Hannah. Alex at least seemed sorry about what had happened and took some responsibility for his part in Hannah's unhappiness. I know Jess had her own shit to deal with after the rape, but even before that happened she seemed fine with all the choices she had made.

Seriously? Jessica did nothing to Hannah that make her deserve her tape. she hid her relationship with Jeff, slapped her, which she later apologized for. she doesn't want to be friends with her again, how is that bad? no one owes anybody their friendship. then compare what she did to Hannah who saw her being raped and did nothing. if it was the other way round, everyone would never forgive Jessica and we know Hannah would make a tape about Jessica not helping her. most of these kids did what they did out of fear, Hannah was scared too, thats why she never helped Jessica. so if we are going to blame all of them then lets blame Hannah too, what she did was worse than what Jessica did. I guess since she's dead we should absolve her and crucify the rest. 
 

 

On 4/19/2017 at 5:57 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

ITA - he respected her wishes by doing what she told him to do, which was to get out and leave her alone. It was not his responsibility to read her mind and know that part of her wanted him to stay. He tried to stay and find out what was wrong but she kept telling him to leave and she was going to keep telling him to leave no matter what he said. I understand why he wants to imagine that if he had just found the right words, he could have saved her but the reality is that even if he had given her that speech, she wouldn't have stopped telling him to leave long enough to hear what he was trying to say. I hope that he is able to forgive himself for not knowing the perfect thing to say in that moment. That's a pretty big burden for someone to carry.

I agree too, which is why I am mad Hannah included him on the tape.
 

 

On 4/20/2017 at 4:03 PM, shelley1234 said:

ITA.   I have to wonder the sense that Justin is more to blame or Justin should have done something to stop it....is because he's male or because Hannah died, but Justin is still here or another reason.

Justin didn't bust in the door after Bryce locked him out to stop him.  True.  Hannah sat there while it was happening.  Watched.  Listened.  You could say Justin knew what was probably happening.   Hannah knew for sure.   She didn't do anything or say anything.   One could say she is in shock and afraid.   Sure.   I could make the case the same was true for Justin and he might have even more to lose if he stopped Bryce.

And Justin didn't tell Jessica after what happened.   True.  Neither did Hannah and Hannah knew 100% what happened.  She knew Jessica was conscious.  She knew she told Bryce to stop.   She didn't tell her that she was there and saw it either.   Instead she made a tape for a dozen people to listen to about what happened to Jessica, but never told Jessica.

Justin should have done more to stop it.  Hannah should have done a lot more to stop it.   Both clearly have a ton of regret about that.  The one person who should have done a lot less is of course Bryce.

This. I think its because Hannah is dead and the story is told from her point of view, therefore viewers are bound to empathize with her and absolve her of her faults. for me, she is no different from Justin. I cant seem to empathize with Hannah because of the tapes. it takes a special kind of messed up somebody to plan their suicide, make tapes for people that wronged her and some innocent people too and leave nothing for her parents. that is the biggest fuck-you ever.
 

[DittyDotDot]

3 hours ago, Grace19 said:

What exactly is Hannah's end game? 

All I can say is keep watching. I think you might be surprised the show isn't what you thought.

[Grace19]

Bryce is really the devil. please someone tell me he didn't get away with it. I hope the season ends with him in jail or someone takes him out so next season's mystery would be who shoot him.

 

With the exception of Bryce, I never felt any of this kids were irredeemable, I don't even blame most of them for Hannah. I know a lot of people hated Courtney, but i understood how scared she was and felt she still needed redemption, but in this episode, I couldn't stand her. she is almost irredeemable to me now and I hate her with passion, yes even more than i dislike Marcus. this episode was really messed up.
 

[BooBear]

On 5/8/2017 at 10:14 AM, preeya said:

Just started watching this series. My first impression is that Katherine Langford (Hannah) reminds me of a younger Natalie Portman.

She reminds me of the girl from "Two Broke Girls" who was also in Thor with Natalie Portman.

Anyway I just started watching this and IMHO it was strong. Dylan Minette is a strong actor and  he makes it work.  I was totally captivated and that is saying something.  The only thing is that it clearly kind of has a romance to suicide thing that cracks me up a little being a fan of "Heathers".  Hannah already seems to be a manipulative drama queen who openly uses Clay when best for her so not sure I care too much about her at the start. 

[Jesslyn]

Binge watching and I’m up to this episode...I think I’ll be up all night even though it’s so hard to watch! I think they have done a very good job depicting this tragic topic. And it’s so so very sad.  

[rozarina]

The show is very good. Suicide is a very complex topic. Brian is a huge scoundrel, but Dustin !!! How could he allow his girlfriend to be raped? He's a moral freak.

[BigDfromLA]

What a collection of rotten human beings, those high school kids. I would list as exceptions Tony, who seemed to be the only one with a sense of remorse and who really didn't do anything wrong or immoral. Clay was just a putz who was so blinded by love that he couldn't think straight and Zach was just a doofus...guilty of being dumb as a rock. I would consider the rest of the kids evil, rotten bastards. 

The adults were even worse, amazingly out of touch and oblivious to everything going on. The sleazy principal was a political hack only interested in covering his ass. All the parents were living in a fantasy world/bubble. That must have been similar to the Columbine shooters' parents who had no clue what their sons were doing. How sad. Mr. Porter was completely out to lunch and had no business being a counselor. He was way in over his head doing that job. What a cesspool for someone troubled like Hannah to have to function, yet she had her faults too.

[Andy Cole]

Revised the series twice, and I can say that the series can be divided into two parts. 1-10 series: it is very tedious and it's not clear at all, because of what Hannah so much falls into depression, because the problems (if they can be called problems at all) with which she faces are overcome by a lot of teenagers ..

11-13 series is very much the opposite, too impressive and well, no match with the first excruciatingly boring series, so the big plus of the series is that it ended greatly and even more than fulfilled expectations, and this is not for all soap operas to do - more often series on the contrary under the end completely lose (I will not even talk about the semantic load) its juice!

Heroes are simple guys, without any strong and heavy stories behind their shoulders, life dramas and tragedies, so it's pointless to talk about an "excellent" acting game. plausibly played the role, but there is still nothing to play. Unless the role of Mom Hannah - in this role really need to get used to, because my mother is suffering most of all, and the actress did it!

The tracks in the series are not bad, the work of the operator and the entire crew is also. Of course, there was nothing VAAAU, no unusual and steep shots mixed with correctly selected music, too - very simple and usually, well, but primitive, rather because the creators of "this kin" wanted the audience to pay more attention to the "very intricate" scenario .

About the most important thing ..

In general, the idea is very interesting, with these cassettes, the dead girl and finally the perpetrators of suicide. Rather, the moral of this fable is such that from your insulting word in someone's address (or jokes) can go a chain of sad, sad events. Today you will review the victim, say softly, dissolute - and tomorrow it will begin to paw, later it can reach cruel mockery, and the terrible brand of "loneliness", because with this and no one else wants to be friends!

But I see it a little differently. Hanna - brought up, at first glance, intelligent, I can later say proud and educated girl. Well, how such a beautiful girl could not stand up for herself in the first series and then ...

All the characters are good, but Hannah herself .. this is some kind of horror .. a very unlikely character in terms of character. on an equal place throws insults, breaks off on others not on business, and where it is necessary to tell the truth and everything as is, so that they do not blame it for falsehood, it is silent. and even when people used force (I will not spoil) - she too is silent! In general, the girl brought herself a girl, and even the fact that she was just as weak as an amoeba ..

If you take all but Hanna herself, then 8 out of 10

[Timetoread]

I want to title my post: "You know you're getting old when..."  I just binge watched this show over the weekend.  At 47, I am not the target audience demographic but now, having watched it, I consider this show to be required viewing - particularly for adults.  I knew I was getting old when I watched this from my own age perspective and ended up seeing the kids as KIDS.  I felt maternal and as such I felt angry and sad and misrepresented.  I kept shouting at the screen "Where the F are the adults?"  Where are the parents/teachers/etc when teenagers are having sex, drinking all day every day, raping, getting raped, getting bullied, buying guns, having friends die, and killing themselves right under our noses?  I actually stopped midway (around episode 8) and called a friend who'd successfully raised a son through adolescence and into adulthood and questioned her.  I was honestly confused.  How much of her son's life was allowed to fly under her radar?  How many times was he allowed to just walk away from her questioning?  How many times of receiving calls from the school and other parents had she permitted before forcing the issue with him?  Her answer was that none of that nonsense flew in her house.  Did she know EVERYTHING?  Probably not.  But she was not an oblivious, hands off parent.  The thing is, 30 years ago, neither were MY parents.  I won't give my life story, but on more than one occasion, at just the faintest whiff of this level of drama and tragedy, my parents were all over me like white on rice.

 

But then I understood.  The show redeemed itself and I think it is brilliant. The parents were there, it's just that the kids didn't seem to register that fact.  They didn't see their greatest resource as a resource at all.  What struck me as the most sad as Hannah bled out into the tub was that it was so unecessary.  For all the bad things that had happened to her, if she had just told her parents ANY OF IT, they would have done anything and everything necessary to help her.  It was touched on but not detailed, that part of the reason they'd moved in the first place was for Hannah.  In the end she died alone because she locked the door against everyone standing outside banging on it.  It was telling that in the end, she blamed the counselor for not helping her.  But he was ready to help her in any way he could.  But she set him up to fail.  She was not specific, she bristled at his questions that would get to the answers and she heard only what she wanted to hear.  I was also upset with the dance being played around Clay.  His father's "be a friend to your kid and wait till he comes to you" approach drove me nuts.  Because, and this is a testament to both the writing and the acting, they may NEVER come to you, and their "friends" are often part of the problem because the friends don't know what to do either.  I was screaming until his mother FINALLY said, "You come back here right now!  I am your mother and you WILL tell me what is going on!"  Kids are so disdainful of parenting, but often that is EXACTLY what they need.  Not to be in trouble or to be grounded, but to be protected by the only people on earth who love you more than you love yourself.  More than LIFE itself.  At the end of the day, Hannah's parents were relentless on her behalf. As was Clay's mother.    So here's my old person's PSA on the matter.  Kiddies, don't confuse reaction with judgement.  Your parents might get mad, or be sad or whatever - emotions are human, as are your parents.  But as for judgement, you've already been judged - they love you no matter what and will help you to the end of and beyond their own resources.  Let them. 

 

Hannah already had everything that anybody wants - a good family, intellect, beauty, people who cared and who noticed her, even popularity - every single one of the jocks wanted her at some point, but they weren't good enough for her, which is why they treated her so badly.  And they hated Clay because he was the only one who WAS good enough for her.  They were jealous of him for getting her.    Really bad things happened to her, but the worst thing that happened to her was the sickness in her own mind that shut her eyes to all that she had and all that she was, and, most importantly, all that she could be.  Damn shame.  Good show! 

[JocelynCavanaugh]

I just got around to watching this. It was compelling, and interesting in some ways, but really frustrating in a lot of others. Hannah never grew on me; the actress is talented but I just didn't care for her general manner and I didn't really like her even at her "best." She's the type that a lot of people consider beautiful but I don't; it's just my personal opinion that full, constantly parted lips and a doe-eyed stare are more irritating that endearing. A lot of terrible things happened to Hannah that weren't her fault, but it's so frustrating (and sadly realistic) that she was unable to see past high school, and felt that she needed to end her life to prove some kind of point.

I've been reading the threads and have seen a lot of talk about how Hannah "isn't perfect," and I don't think that's a useful line of discussion. Perfection is not even on the rubric for anyone, so it's hyperbolic and distracting to hold her to a hypothetical standard that no one even suggested. Hannah wasn't the worst person in the story but I wouldn't really call her a good person either. I think there's room to say that someone was kind of a self-centered jerk who inflicted a lot of guilt and pain on others because she couldn't see past herself, but we still don't find satisfaction in her suicide or think she deserved to be raped or bullied. She was just a garden variety angsty brat who would've gone on to join her people in the Philosophy department of an expensive liberal arts college and probably ended up working in HR.

As for the suicide scene itself, it doesn't seem glorified to those of us who are adults and have made it through adolescence and aren't dealing with suicidal ideation. It was raw and shocking. However, I do think it could seem romantic and desirable to a young person in a certain frame of mind. It was beautifully lit and intensely emotional. To a kid who's in a bad place mentally, and maybe already experimenting with self-harm, it could present an appealing picture of release, or even affirm the person's need to feel pain for whatever reason. The fact that Hannah groaned and suffered would not necessarily deter someone who is already suffering. Hannah was alone, but her makeup was perfect, the bathroom was pristine and Pinterest-worthy, and her parents responded with an outpouring of attention and emotion. Because we were able to watch this play out, it might be difficult for a depressed young person to separate Hannah's experience from the part where she would no longer be able to experience anything. I found the scene intensely romantic, in the classic sense of the term. Now that we're a year out from the show's release, there have been a few news stories of copycat suicides, as well as a documented spike in google searches for suicide methods, which typically correspond to a spike in actual suicide attempts. I appreciate that the creators of the show wanted to raise awareness, but I think they actively rejected professional advice not to depict the suicide and it did cost some lives.

On a very random note, I thought it was odd how almost every character was an only child; only the Hispanic character, Tony, seemed to come from a (stereotypically?) big family. Zach might have had a sister? Maybe there was just no narrative purpose for siblings, but it seems unusual for that many kids in one cohort not to have any.

I also thought Alex was gay, and continued to think he was gay even though the show told me otherwise.

And finally, because I didn't care for Hannah, I wouldn't miss her in the second season. In fact, I hope she doesn't reappear. Her story is finished. She said her piece and opted out, so I'm not particularly interested in her continuing to direct events and choices in lives that go on after her.

[Paloma]

On 4/9/2018 at 2:15 PM, Timetoread said:

At 47, I am not the target audience demographic but now, having watched it, I consider this show to be required viewing - particularly for adults.  I knew I was getting old when I watched this from my own age perspective and ended up seeing the kids as KIDS.  I felt maternal and as such I felt angry and sad and misrepresented.  I kept shouting at the screen "Where the F are the adults?"  Where are the parents/teachers/etc when teenagers are having sex, drinking all day every day, raping, getting raped, getting bullied, buying guns, having friends die, and killing themselves right under our noses?

At 67, I am even farther from the target audience demographic, but this show really got me (and my husband) and I also consider it required viewing for adults. I also wondered where the parents/teachers/etc. were, but at the same time recognized that being there and wanting to help are not enough in many cases. The nature of adolescence in most cases (at least in contemporary US culture) is that kids rebel against adults to varying degrees and will often reject expressions of concern and offers to help. Supervision can also be problematic--the more you try to supervise or protect against danger, the more likely kids will rebel against that supervision and protection. When our daughter was in high school in the late 1990s (2001 graduate), she was a "good" girl with a large circle of "good" friends--"good" in the sense of well-behaved and liked by teachers in school, smart and hard-working, involved in activities such as sports, dance, or music that they loved and that kept them busy. Like many of the parents at that time and in our area, we were "helicopter" parents who were very involved in our kids' lives. And yet there were several tragedies in our suburban area involving similar "good" kids who were killed and/or killed others in drunk driving crashes following parties (in some cases with at least one parent present). I also found out a few years after our daughter graduated that she had been to parties with drinking, drugs, and sex (which she said she did not participate in), and I was shocked because I wouldn't have thought that happened in her circle of friends...and she certainly would never have told me at the time.

On 4/18/2018 at 10:34 PM, JocelynCavanaugh said:

As for the suicide scene itself, it doesn't seem glorified to those of us who are adults and have made it through adolescence and aren't dealing with suicidal ideation. It was raw and shocking. However, I do think it could seem romantic and desirable to a young person in a certain frame of mind. It was beautifully lit and intensely emotional. To a kid who's in a bad place mentally, and maybe already experimenting with self-harm, it could present an appealing picture of release, or even affirm the person's need to feel pain for whatever reason. The fact that Hannah groaned and suffered would not necessarily deter someone who is already suffering. Hannah was alone, but her makeup was perfect, the bathroom was pristine and Pinterest-worthy, and her parents responded with an outpouring of attention and emotion. Because we were able to watch this play out, it might be difficult for a depressed young person to separate Hannah's experience from the part where she would no longer be able to experience anything. I found the scene intensely romantic, in the classic sense of the term. Now that we're a year out from the show's release, there have been a few news stories of copycat suicides, as well as a documented spike in google searches for suicide methods, which typically correspond to a spike in actual suicide attempts. I appreciate that the creators of the show wanted to raise awareness, but I think they actively rejected professional advice not to depict the suicide and it did cost some lives.

I originally thought it was necessary to show the suicide because of the emotional impact, but eventually came to believe it was a mistake to show it, at least in the way it was done. You are right that this could actually present an appealing picture to kids who are depressed or considering suicide, and I hadn't previously thought of the fact that Hanna's makeup was perfect and the bathroom was a perfect setting. But I'm not sure how the show should have dealt with the suicide itself--not showing it all could have had the effect of letting depressed/suicidal kids focus on what they would likely see as a positive--how the tapes forced people to pay attention to Hannah's pain and remember her long after she died--without having to think about the reality and finality of suicide. 

[memememe76]

I finally got around to watch the show, and I Friggin love it. The extended coffeehouse scene with Marcus, Tyler, Courtney, Ryan, Zach and Alex was so well done. That scene would have been chopped into little pieces on network tv. Also, Alex listing everyone's misdeeds reminded me of my favourite ever line from Friends from Monica. In a box!

[CeeBeeGee]

The principal's befuddled "what on earth is a 'cum dumpster'?" made me HOWL.

 

God, the poor Baker family! Can they not catch a break?

[CeeBeeGee]

On 4/10/2017 at 10:00 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

No one should have to come out of the closet before they're ready, but that doesn't mean you get to LIE about someone else to direct attention away from yourself. What Courtney did to Hannah was just plain mean. I don't care how scared Courtney was. Not only did she compound the rumor about Justin at the playground (after Hannah already told her that none of it was true) saying that Hannah went down on him but then she threw in that Hannah was into girls and wanted to have a threeway with Laura. I mean, seriously, Courtney. She deliberately started rumors that she knew to be completely false in every way about someone who had only been nice to her so she can fuck right off.

THIS.

I'm starting to love Clay's parents (although Mom, hello, give your teenage son some privacy when he says he wants to do the laundry).

Oh fuck off, Tyler. YOU are part of the problem. YOU are part of why Liberty is toxic. You and your creeping around, taking pictures of someone in their bedroom. You are a stalker and a creeper and your victim complex is tired. Tyler, trynna sit at the cool lunch and them turfing him out. GTFO loser.

OMG that transition from past-Mrs. Baker at the store looking alive to present-Mrs. Baker looking broken is heart-breaking.

Justin, if you're "bulletproof," why are you so scared of what Clay is doing?

Poor Hannah.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:55 AM, absnow54 said:

(although I had the same comical "really?" at Zack Dempsey when he was playing basket ball and just destroying everyone else on the court because the actor is very obviously 26 pushing around a bunch of 20 year old extras.) 

I was dying at that. And he's supposed to be a sophomore? They're all supposed to be sophomores in the flashbacks? I--and most of my teammates--were still pretty runty at that age, 14-15.

 

On 4/30/2017 at 7:46 AM, Paloma said:

I understand your reasons for putting Justin third, but I think Marcus is worse because he actually committed a sexual assault in public knowing that he could get away with it because of his reputation as a smart, athletic, and upstanding student. Also, he had to know that framing Clay with drugs could have resulted in Clay being expelled, arrested, and even imprisoned--in other words, ruining his life. Justin's actions regarding Hannah and Jessica were more passive than active (though I'm not letting him off the hook for those actions) and seemed to be related to his abuse of alcohol and drugs as well as his need to keep Bryce's approval. In other words, I see Marcus's actions toward both Hannah and Clay as more malicious than Justin's. 

Don't forget Tyler the Creeper. He has to be in the top 3 or 4.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 4/13/2017 at 8:22 AM, Kalliste said:

I was wondering where Jessica was going with showing Bryce the gun safe and getting him to hold it. I assume she's got some plan up her sleeve and will have to wait and see what it is.

Yes, her getting him to hold it seems significant. She can then shoot him and claim he was trying to shoot her and she was able to get ahold of the gun.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 4/2/2017 at 11:18 AM, TotalHellion said:

I don't think anyone was supposed to feel bad for Bryce but the actor sold the character and made me believe he really was that dickhead jock who doesn't think he did anything wrong. 

He was incredibly believable as a sociopathic rapist, to the point that I'm worried about his career. He was horrifyingly believable. I passed someone at work today who looked like him and I was shuddering. An excellent actor.

On 4/2/2017 at 2:37 PM, DittyDotDot said:

I didn't think the actual suicide was romanticized. It was horrible and violent and painful. I was beginning to think they were romanticizing Hannah Baker a bit too much until they showed just how horrible the actual act was. And, watching the parents and then the fallout from everyone around her. In the end, I think they did a good job of showing it's not a pleasant or peaceful solution. 

I was devastated watching the actual act--in fact I watched it through my fingers and turned away several times. I have suicide in my family and it is key to show the reaction of the parents/survivors. Oh my God, Hannah's poor parents. Her poor, poor mother. That denial. "You're okay. You're okay." It's just so awful. They will never get past this. Suicide is the gift that keeps on giving. People never get past this. 

 

On 4/15/2017 at 8:58 AM, Paloma said:

One thing that seemed unrealistic to me was how Hannah kept up her appearance--nice outfits, perfect makeup, clean and styled hair (despite having been cut, the style was still kind of chic)--right up until the end. Based on both personal experience and what I've read as an editor of psychiatric texts, a common symptom in people who are clinically depressed and/or suicidal is loss of interest in hygiene and personal appearance. This was especially noticeable in comparison with Jessica, whose appearance and dress deteriorated as she spiraled (though this may have been more attributable to the abuse of alcohol and drugs). Hannah's continuing good looks may be one reason why some critics of the series (like the Post article I linked above) worry that it may cause other teens to copy her actions.

That was definitely a concern of mine. As much as Hannah suffered throughout the series, she was always rocking her cute little scarves and berry lip color (shit, EVERYBODY at Liberty High loved that berry lip! Hannah, Clay, Tony...!). Actual depression is smelly and off-putting and untelegenic. I would've liked to have seen Hannah's depression rendered more realistically.

On 4/16/2017 at 2:53 PM, truthaboutluv said:

The thing is though, the same way some can make the argument that ultimately Hannah's suicide was her decision and her choice, I don't think it's fair to entirely blame those actions on her. The kids decided to punish Tyler the way they did and YMMV but I'm not going to feel sorry for Tyler's being a creepy, stalkerish peeping tom being made public. I might have if he'd shown remorse and apologized for it but he didn't and instead was defensive to Clay when confronted about it.

FUCK Tyler. He is scum. As Truth says, it would be one thing if he acknowledged he'd fucked up but when Hannah said something he 1) asked her out, and 2) when she said no, he blasted the pic of her and Courtney. After that he whined about how he was a victim. So Tyler is a Nice Guy. That guy, that guy who says because I am not a jock,not conventionally successful with chicks, somehow I am a victim and beyond reproach. No, dude, just because you're not nailing the chicks doesn't mean you're not part of the problem. Fuck Tyler.

 

On 4/21/2017 at 9:23 AM, truthaboutluv said:

Honestly, the character I initially thought was gay when he was first introduced, was Alex. So I was surprised to see the story was some sort of pseudo-triangle between him, Jessica and Hannah. Incidentally the actor who plays Alex is gay in real life. 

That is actually pretty cool that they cast a gay actor to play a straight character. Until fairly recently being known as gay would immediately typecast you as a gay actor, and it would've been impossible to read for a straight character at an audition.

[truthaboutluv]

6 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

That is actually pretty cool that they cast a gay actor to play a straight character. Until fairly recently being known as gay would immediately typecast you as a gay actor, and it would've been impossible to read for a straight character at an audition.

Agreed and even cooler - both Miles Heizer, who plays Alex and Brandon Flynn who plays Justin, are gay in real life and they're both playing straight characters on the show. 

[1775rik]

I thought that in the scene at the theater when she called Marcus was perhaps the only time when Hannah showed contempt for Clay and his lack of courage.  After giving Clay a hint by saying Marcus was not her first choice and getting no reaction, I think she thought she had little choice but to call Marcus.  After the call was completed, Clay remarked that the setting up of the date between Marcus and Hannah seemed easy.  She replied with a fairly withering "it can be."

Having Clay be so passive here is at least consistent with his behavior regarding Hannah throughout the show.  What really seems unrealistic to me is that someone like Hannah would never have taken the initiative to ask Clay out.  As far back as the eclipse when she moved closer to him on the roof, it seemed fairly clear she was interested in him.  Contrast her failure to ask Clay out with McKenzie's casually and easily asking out Tyler in season 2.  I find her failure to ask Clay out so unlikely as to conclude hat the only reason for it was the plot's need to have them not be together.

[1775rik]

I think this was the episode where Clay really let Hannah down.  With 20/20 hindsight, he should perhaps have stayed with her at the party, but its somewhat to fault him for obeying her clearly expressed wishes.  He also should have talked to her when she approached him and he accused her of making everything about her.  But at that point, Jeff's death and Clay's hurt and confusion over being rejected at the party were still very fresh.

However, as I understand it, Hannah picked up her check from the Crestmont about three weeks after Jessica's party.  During that encounter, Clay was very cold towards her, treating her, at best, as a casual business associate.  Both actors were very good in the scene--Clay's indifference and Hannah's wish to engage him and disappointment when he gave her nothing back were both very clear.  Go back and look at how fast she spun around when he called her back.  It had to be crushing for her discover he only wanted to tell her to return her uniform.

At that point, I think Hannah was fairly desperate to find someone who cared for her enough to put themselves out for her.  I don't think she needed any grand profession of love from Clay, but she did need to know he cared and would stand by her,  Instead, she got nothing but indifference.  I think that if she had believed Clay cared about her, she might have called him after the scene with her parents rather than wondering over to Bryce's or, if not, might have called him after the rape.

In the second season Zack said that shame burns.  I think that if Clay ever looks back on this conversation, he should feel a good bit of shame that burns.  His treatment of Hannah was far short of what she had the right to expect from a friend, much less from someone who professed to love her  

[1775rik]

I don't think Ryan gets enough blame for what he did.  With the exception of Bryce of course, and perhaps Tyler (who kept Hannah from feeling safe in her own home, I think Ryan's actions did the most damage to Hannah.  She obviously felt a large sense of betrayal.  But more importantly, after that I doubt that she ever wrote a poem; he therefore deprived her of an outlet to express her feelings.  Just as importantly, his actions resulted in her no longer attending the poetry group.  By this time I think Hannah was increasingly desperate for human contact.  I don't think we ever had any indication that she became close with anyone in the group other than Ryan, but the group still gave her a much needed opportunity to interact with people who gave her human interaction and most likely positive reinforcement.  By this time, she could not afford to lose this.

I think Ryan's actions also completely deprived her of agency.  While the wisdom of the decision can be doubted with hindsight, when Hannah asked Clay to leave the room at Jessica's party, he respected her decision and complied.  Despite Hannah clearly making her wishes known to Ryan about the poem being published, he completely disregarded her wishes.  I don't think he acted with any malice and was sincere when he told her she would thank him later for what he had done.  Sometimes, however, arrogance can inflict as much harm as malice.

[1775rik]

I thought the conversation between Hannah and Clay while they were eating lunch told us a lot about Hannah.  First, she was pretty perceptive.  Even that early in their relationship she realized Clay was scared--something he never stopped being until after she died.  To her credit, I don't think she hardly ever thought less of him for it.  Second, she would stand up for herself.  After he made his, at best, thoughtless remark about it sometimes being better to wait, she did not just become quiet or slink off.  Instead, she told him clearly that he had hurt her feelings.  He tried to call after her, but, as always, made no attempt to actually go after her.

[1775rik]

I don't think Hannah should be blamed for not intervening during the rape because I don't see how she could have done so without putting herself in danger.  She obviously could not have subdued Bryce.  She could have screamed for help, but its doubtful whether she could have been heard over the party noise.  And screaming would have revealed her presence to Bryce.  She could have also made a break for the door to try and go for help.  But I think it likely Bryce would have got to her before she unlocked the door and escaped, particularly in like of her somewhat inebriated and traumatized condition.  Once Bryce because aware of Hannah's presence in the room he might have likely focused his attention on her rather than the mostly unconscious Jessica.  Whether Hannah should have reported him Bryce to the police after the rape is a different question, but would still have been too late to help Jessica.

In  contrast, Justin was in the hall and not in danger in any way.  He could have gone downstairs and tried to get others to help him break the door down.  Maybe no one would have helped him, but there was no reason he could not try.

I don't think Clay can be faulted for not leaving the room.  I think he can be faulted quite a bit for leaving the house.  Jeff told him to stay but he did not listen.  Clay should have been waiting in the room when Hannah came down the stairs.  In the condition she was then in, I think she would have been grateful for him to have helped her get home.  This would have prevented Jeff's death and the guilt Hannah felt over that, as well as repairing the damage to the Clay and Hannah relationship and the guilt she felt over that.

When Clay suggested that Hannah come to the party, he said he would watch out for her.  He didn't.  He had a reason for not doing so, I just don't think it was anywhere a good enough reason.

[Jazzy]

On 4/26/2017 at 11:40 AM, auntiemel said:

Yeah, he's gonna slay in college. And if he wants to further cement that, he could invest a couple of months in acoustic guitar tutorials on YouTube.

He will be unstoppable!

[Miles]

So far the writing isn't great. I'm usually not one to say "nobody talks like this!", because movies and TV shows are an art form and art can be abstract, but come on, nobody talks like this! Might be because it's super inconsistent.

Also I really hate Hannah. She seems so smug. I shouldn't be glad that she killed herself, should I?

Btw, you won't get that little tastefull drop of blood running from a head wound like that. You bleed like a stuck pig. So much that it's hard to see due to all the blood. Trust me, I had one of those head wounds after some other kids threw a rock at me.

 

On 2.4.2017 at 11:25 PM, mansonlamps said:

Frankly, I find Hannah a little off-putting for some reason.

On 3.4.2017 at 2:22 AM, iggysaurus said:

I want to like this, but ... Nobody talks like these teenagers. I can't stand that oh so witty, self aware banter that these characters are constantly spouting. I'll try to stick with it but it might be hard to get past the precocious dialogue.

Good to know it's not just me.

 

On 9.4.2017 at 4:50 AM, sara416 said:

Regarding the cassette tape thing, Jay Asher addresses this in the Q and A at the end of the book. He basically says that he could have gone with some modern technology, but it would be outdated very quickly. If he used technology that was already outdated, it wouldn't date the story as much. Basically, the cassettes are old school and they know it, which makes it easier to be done at any time: 2007, 2011, 2017, whatever. 

That seems like a dumb reason. MP3s have been around since I was a kid and I'm old now and they'll be around for quite a while. Even when they are not, it wouldn't date the story any more than the tapes already have. Seems more like he might be too old to understand what teenagers might use.

 

On 17.4.2017 at 6:11 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

Just watched this episode . I never read the books but I assume The reason for clay being on the tapes won't be shown until the last tape and it's him who she liked all along . Girl has it written all over her face that she wants him 

She better have a better reason than "senpai didn't notice me" for killing herself though, ugh. She really grinds my gears.

Edited December 22, 2018 by Miles

[Miles]

On 21.5.2017 at 10:51 PM, Chas411 said:

I thought Jessica was a bit of a bitch - Alex wasn't great either. Jessica was very quick to turn on Hannah the minute she was threatened that Alex might like her more. Both seemed happy to use Hannah until it was time to trade up. I guess it's common enough that this kind of stuff happens in high school - it doesn't make it any less hurtful though especially since Hannah seemed like someone who needed friends. 

I'm inclined to believe Jessica, that Hannah was actually the one who stoped coming to the hot chocolate hangouts. She seems like the kind of self absorbed person who would twist the whole thing later and after a while even believe her own bullshit. So far I like everybody but the dead girl (well and the mean jock, I guess)

[Miles]

Wow, the camera work in this episode was atrocious. Did they have an intern film and/or direct this episode? It wasn't this bad the first few episodes.

[Miles]

Finally this is getting interesting. Took this show long enough. Unhinged Clay is best Clay.

 

On 2.4.2017 at 2:45 PM, ban1o said:

mmm ok what was the purpose of having Hannah lie about Zach throwing away the letter was it to show she's unreliable and since she was suicidal at that point she somewhat exaggerated what happened. I've finished the show but I'm till wondering why she lied about that. 

I don't think she lied. I think she rememberd it that way. Human memory is crap, which is why eyewitness testimony isn't worth anything most of the time (sadly juries don't know that).

 

On 2.4.2017 at 3:11 PM, ban1o said:

It did make me wonder about what Jessica said of Hannah being the one to stop coming to Monet when she and Alex got together. Like iI just assumed she was lying to make herself seem better but rethinking about it it's possible. Hannah did seam to shy away from human connection. lol maybe I'm over thinking it though lmao. Hannah was probably telling the truth about that but it did make me think. 

I think Jessica was telling the truth. I think the events are out of order in Hannah's memory. I think she stoped coming to the hot chocolate meets after she found out that Alex and Jessica were together. Probably because she felt like a third wheel.

[Miles]

Clay: "I thought maybe you were in love with her (Hannah)."

Me out loud: "You know he's gay, right?"

Tony: "Clay, you know I'm gay, right?"

Sad that I'm watching alone, because that was just too perfect.

[Miles]

On 13.4.2017 at 2:22 PM, Kalliste said:

I was wondering where Jessica was going with showing Bryce the gun safe and getting him to hold it. I assume she's got some plan up her sleeve and will have to wait and see what it is.

She made sure to get his prints on that gun real good. I'm wondering if she's going to shoot him and claim self defense.

[Miles]

The story between Hannah and Clay is really tragic. I wish Hannah would have used her words when she was alive and not only after. I actually said "use your words" out loud a feww times. That would have solved most problems here. Clay would have understood. If it was too hard for her to tell him in person, she could have sent him a tape (or an MP3).

So the last two tapes are Bryce and Mr. Potter. Yeah, no giant surprise there, but good having it confirmed.

 

On 21.4.2017 at 8:07 PM, Jaclyn88 said:

Because in all honesty, life throws many challenges at everyone, some more than others but very few people have little to no problems. Her dating Clay would not have made her less depressed, as depression is a mind set and people can be depressed without anything in particular even being wrong.

Well that's just wrong. Depressions can be and often are situational. Just because brain chemestry can be the cause doesn't mean it always is. Hannah's depression seemed to be caused by her situation. We saw her happy at the beginning (and kinda smug) and then a bunch of bad shit happened to her which made her depressed.

 

On 23.4.2017 at 9:34 PM, Happytobehere said:

 I actually would like Clay and Sheri to wind up together -- some happiness has to come from all this mess.

I'd like Clay to get together with Tony. I think those two are cute together. I know Clay isn't gay, but maybe a little bi?

But I know that will never happen, so whatever.

Edited December 23, 2018 by Miles