Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[lemotomato]

26 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

It was more like a mix between Ultimate Nope face and internally screaming "Get your GD hands off me. I would remove your hand if the camera wasn't on us. STOP TOUCHING ME"

I think this is a better example of of SA's "don't touch me!" face, haha. They actually found someone he had even worst chemistry with than KC

Edited June 30, 2017 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

Gawd that's like super angry S1 Oliver who is about to kill. 

Haha my theory is that SA ships Olicity and therefore looks like a raging shipper when anything disrupts his OTP.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

I think this is a better example of of SA's "don't touch me!" face, haha. They actually found someone he had even worst chemistry with than KC

This is part of the reason I thought Oliver was faking it because he knew she was digging dirt on him..nope! With the writing being what it is and the actors not conveying what they are supposed to convey it's hard to tell what's going on sometimes..

[Guest]

10 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Just odd decisions here and there that show she wasn't just talking about her head canons in interviews, she was letting them influence how she played LL with Oliver on the show.

I'll never understand this moment. Felicity's side of the bed wasn't even cold, Laurel. GTFO! And when you look at it with hindsight after her deathbed confession (that wasn't a deathbed when you consider that she didn't know she was dying so it gets weirder and more uncomfortable), it just makes her look even more shitty. She was seriously just waiting in the wings. Pathetic. I'm sorry but it was.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Guest

[Mellowyellow]

I find her expression hilarious "Come get me Oliver, I'm as sour as ever."

Meanwhile poor Oliver is like "So this is how God punishes lying liars who lie to Felicity. Laurel is after me again. Must formulate escape plan."

[insomniadreams88]

10 hours ago, lemotomato said:

 

29 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I'll never understand this moment. Felicity's side of the bed wasn't even cold, Laurel. GTFO! And when you look at it with hindsight after her deathbed confession (that technically wasn't a deathbed when you consider that she didn't know she was dying so it gets weirder and more uncomfortable), it just makes her look even more shitty. She was seriously just waiting in the wings. Pathetic. I'm sorry but it was.

Wasn't this also the same episode that Laurel mentioned a job opening at PT for Alex to Thea? That suggested that Laurel was at the very least talking to Felicity on the phone/hanging out/something? (I don't know, I always found the "friendship" they wanted us to think existed - though everything had to happen off-screen since they never showed those two spending time together - between Felicity and Laurel odd.) After the "deathbed" confession, I remember wondering what Laurel was saying to Felicity post-breakup considering how she was acting with Oliver and that confession. 

ETA: I think this is a case where they don't realize that writing one thing can affect how other moments/scenes are seen/interpreted. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[leopardprint]

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I think this is a better example of of SA's "don't touch me!" face, haha. They actually found someone he had even worst chemistry with than KC

This is so weird. This is the dialogue I imagine from this scene.

Oliver: "Don't touch me."

Susan: "Haha, I'm touching you."

Oliver: *glares* *grinds teeth*

Neither of these people seem to particularly like each other. 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Wasn't this also the same episode that Laurel mentioned a job opening at PT for Alex to Thea? That suggested that Laurel was at the very least talking to Felicity on the phone/hanging out/something? (I don't know, I always found the "friendship" they wanted us to think existed - though everything had to happen off-screen since they never showed those two spending time together - between Felicity and Laurel odd.) After the "deathbed" confession, I remember wondering what Laurel was saying to Felicity post-breakup considering how she was acting with Oliver and that confession. 

I can't remember that detail tbh. But we're definitely supposed to assume they're all friends. It's just another one of those things we never see on screen. But even if they weren't as good friends as we're supposed to think, it's still shitty. They work on the same team. How did she think things were going go once she rejoined the team after she'd told him he was the love of her life? (The writers knew Laurel was dying but technically Laurel didn't know so it just looks bad).

This is where they really didn't think things through with that whole deathbed scene. None of it made any sense and they narrowed Laurel's character down to someone who was pining the whole time and just waiting for Oliver, IMO. Why they never gave her last scene to her and her dad, I'll never know.

Edited June 30, 2017 by Guest

[Chaser]

I'd like to see the script page for that Oliver and LL scene. It's so awkward I can't figure out if the face caress was scripted or KC was told to be more touchy to make the death "matter" and SA just wasn't comfortable. 

[tv echo]

No script pages, but here's some dialogue from the two O/L scenes in Episode 417 as aired (post-Olicity breakup)...

Scene 1:
(Oliver is punching a workout pillar when he turns to block a punch from Laurel.)
Laurel: "Wow. You really do have eyes in the back of your head."
Oliver: "I thought you had work to do."
Laurel: "I realized it could wait. You've been pushing us pretty hard, and I know why. Oliver, it's okay to miss Felicity."
Oliver: "I - I appreciate what you're doing, but I don't think that you're the –“
Laurel: "Person to help you through it? Why? Because of what we used to have?"
Oliver: "Yeah."
Laurel: "I thought maybe it just gave me a little insight."
Oliver: "Well, I mean, in fairness, I did wreck what we had, too, so -"
Laurel: "In your defense, you were missing and presumed dead for five years, but that's not what I mean. I know how passionately you love and how much it hurts once that love goes away."
Oliver: "You know, between... Merlyn, Slade Wilson and Ra's Al Ghul, I thought that I'd be a little tougher than this by now."
Laurel: "That's a different type of pain, and this takes longer to heal. But I'm here for you."
Oliver: "Thank you."

Scene 2:
Laurel: "Nobody needs to hear that, Oliver. I know you're hurting, but you can't take it out on Curtis."
Oliver: "I'm not taking it out on Curtis. I just need him to see."
Laurel: "See what?"
Oliver: "That this is not a good life. I walked away from it, and I was happy. For the first time in eight years, I was content."
Laurel: "So why did you come back?"
Oliver: "I came back because of Felicity. She convinced me that we could do this job - that we could save this city and not surrender to the darkness, but... I don't - I don't think that we can."
Laurel: "You're only saying that right now because you're in 10 different kinds of pain, but the harsh truth is that Felicity - she broke up with you because of your choices, because lies that you told. You, Oliver, not the Green Arrow."
Oliver: "I know. It just doesn't seem fair that I can save a city and not save my relationship."
Laurel: "Oliver, life's not fair, whether you're in Star City or Ivy Town. But you're right. You can save this city. You do it every night. You're a beacon of hope to people. (Puts her hand on Oliver's arm) I just wish that you would try and use some of that hope for yourself." (Uses her hand to cup Oliver's face for a long moment)

Edited June 30, 2017 by tv echo

[leopardprint]

To be honest, the face cupping thing didn't really bother me that much because they are supposed to be very old friends, even if that didn't really translate on screen. 

But you know what strikes me as weird in hindsight, Laurel and Felicity should have probably had a post 415 scene commiserating since they both were hurt by the William thing, in different ways. Please let the female characters talk to each other, Show! 

The not-a-deathbed confession will never not be bizarre and pathetic. 

Sidenote: Is "10 kinds of pain" a widely used expression? Can it be stricken from the record like "know you in my bones"?

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[tangerine95]

I liked that they put it in script that the lies that broke them up had nothing to do with him being GA.And its funny how LL ignores that what broke them up wasn't the gambit sinking but Oliver cheating on her with her sister,tho with how she seemed to ignore all the other cheating she might have ignored this too lol

Those scenes were fine if a little weird because you don't tend to talk to an ex about his new relationship,but they wanted to set up her death so I get it.Its the deathbed confession that makes it look pathetic and like she was trying to get to him and waiting around until she got her chance.It was really an unnecessary choice to have her say that,it just painted LL in a pathetic light imo.

[leopardprint]

10 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

 

I liked that they put it in script that the lies that broke them up had nothing to do with him being GA.And its funny how LL ignores that what broke them up wasn't the gambit sinking but Oliver cheating on her with her sister,tho with how she seemed to ignore all the other cheating she might have ignored this too lol

 

Especially because physical evidence of Oliver's cheating was revealed the episode directly prior! Also, way to take responsibility for your actions, Oliver. 

I didn't realize it before, but you're right, they were trying to hamfistedly set up the St. Laurel, requiescat in pace, narrative, she's the sympathetic shoulder to lean on.

She still went out like a chump. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, Angel12d said:

But even if they weren't as good friends as we're supposed to think, it's still shitty. They work on the same team. How did she think things were going go once she rejoined the team after she'd told him he was the love of her life? (The writers knew Laurel was dying but technically Laurel didn't know so it just looks bad).

I can't even imagine how awkward that would have been for everyone in the lair, to have Oliver still in love with Felicity but having heard Laurel tell him that he's the love of her life. Awkward for everyone including Thea, Lance and even Curtis, not just Oliver and Diggle.

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

No script pages, but here's some dialogue from the two O/L scenes in Episode 417 as aired (post-Olicity breakup)...

Scene 1:
Oliver: "I thought you had work to do."
Laurel: "I realized it could wait. You've been pushing us pretty hard, and I know why. Oliver, it's okay to miss Felicity."
Oliver: "I - I appreciate what you're doing, but I don't think that you're the –“
Laurel: "Person to help you through it? Why? Because of what we used to have?"
Oliver: "Yeah."
Laurel: "I thought maybe it just gave me a little insight."
Oliver: "Well, I mean, in fairness, I did wreck what we had, too, so -"
Laurel: "In your defense, you were missing and presumed dead for five years, but that's not what I mean. I know how passionately you love and how much it hurts once that love goes away."
Oliver: "You know, between... Merlyn, Slade Wilson and Ra's Al Ghul, I thought that I'd be a little tougher than this by now."
Laurel: "That's a different type of pain, and this takes longer to heal. But I'm here for you."
Oliver: "Thank you."

Scene 2:
Oliver: "That this is not a good life. I walked away from it, and I was happy. For the first time in eight years, I was content."
Laurel: "So why did you come back?"
Oliver: "I came back because of Felicity. She convinced me that we could do this job - that we could save this city and not surrender to the darkness, but... I don't - I don't think that we can."
Laurel: "You're only saying that right now because you're in 10 different kinds of pain, but the harsh truth is that Felicity - she broke up with you because of your choices, because lies that you told. You, Oliver, not the Green Arrow."
Oliver: "I know. It just doesn't seem fair that I can save a city and not save my relationship."
Laurel: "Oliver, life's not fair, whether you're in Star City or Ivy Town. But you're right. You can save this city. You do it every night. You're a beacon of hope to people. (Puts her hand on Oliver's arm) I just wish that you would try and use some of that hope for yourself." (Uses her hand to cup Oliver's face for a long moment)

I'm uncomfortable at the implication that it's Felicity's fault that Oliver is unhappy right now because she convinced him to come back from Ivy Town.  Other than that, ick.  How very, very inappropriate it is that Laurel is being the comforting shoulder to get Oliver over Felicity, especially now that we know she thinks he is the love of her life.

I've been watching A Place To Call Home and this is really Regina-levels of delusional hope.

Edited June 30, 2017 by statsgirl

[lemotomato]

Thanks for the dialog, @tv echo. It's even grosser than I remember.

You know what's really bizarre about the 417 scenes is that this is on the heels of Laurel finding out that while Oliver was dating her, he fathered a child with her friend. What self respecting woman goes from finding that out to saying stuff like "I know how passionately you love" and "I'm here for you" to her ex?

[leopardprint]

55 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm uncomfortable at the implication that it's Felicity's fault that Oliver is unhappy right now because she convinced him to come back from Ivy Town. 

It struck me after you said this that dearly departed Laurel is the only character that sort of backed Felicity or at least outright told Oliver it was his fault*. Pretty much everyone else was like "Felicity will get over it." which is basically what ended up happening. 

*yet still told him he was the love of her life. 

There is too much blame, whether intentional or unintentional, placed on Felicity for the breakup. 

[lemotomato]

27 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

It struck me after you said this that dearly departed Laurel is the only character that sort of backed Felicity or at least outright told Oliver it was his fault*. Pretty much everyone else was like "Felicity will get over it." which is basically what ended up happening. 

*yet still told him he was the love of her life. 

There is too much blame, whether intentional or unintentional, placed on Felicity for the breakup. 

Did she really back Felicity, though? Because 5 seconds after saying that it was his lies that broke up his relationship, she's telling him not to be so hard on himself. In retrospect, it could be interpreted as her play for him-- "She broke up with you because you're a liar, but I understand you, and I've forgiven you for all  every shitty thing you've done I've always loved you let's get back together" 

Edited June 30, 2017 by lemotomato

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Did she really back Felicity, though? Because 5 seconds after saying that it was his lies that broke up his relationship, she's telling him not to be so hard on himself. In retrospect, it could be interpreted as her play for him-- "She broke up with you because you're a liar, but I understand you, and I've forgiven you for all  every shitty thing you've done I've always loved you let's get back together" 

I think it's like how she tells Oliver he's the love of her life, but hopes he and Felicity get back together ...when she doesn't know she's about to die. How could she not think, "Hmm, this could make things awkward"? Considering everyone else told her they loved her except Oliver, maybe that should have been a sign to not then go, "BTW, you're the love of my life." 

I wonder if Laurel didn't think Felicity would ever return to the team. Or hoped she wouldn't.

I feel like they had certain beats they wanted to hit with Laurel before killing her off and they had to include that stupid "deathbed" confession, but they didn't care enough to think about how some of her past actions/words looked after it. (For example, I already thought she seemed jealous when she cut into O/F's moment remembering when they first met in 414, but it's even worse after the confession.) 

[leopardprint]

3 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

but they didn't care enough to think about how some of her past actions/words looked after it

I feel like this should be engraved on a plaque and sent to the Arrow writers' room. 

*or put in some chocolate since they like that aesthetic. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[lemotomato]

5 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

I feel like they had certain beats they wanted to hit with Laurel before killing her off and they had to include that stupid "deathbed" confession, but they didn't care enough to think about how some of her past actions/words looked after it. (For example, I already thought she seemed jealous when she cut into O/F's moment remembering when they first met in 414, but it's even worse after the confession.) 

Or the angry/annoyed face Laurel makes throughout this scene, when Oliver and Felicity are all giddy with excitement about making an announcement and showing them the new lair 

[Featherhat]

I don't think they gave what it might mean any thought at all. If certain gossip has any basis in truth then the EPs had been wanting LL off the show for years so whatever she said wasn't going to matter, especially if KC pushed for it as her "last words" never mind how pathetic it makes her character. Or else someone on the staff just can't let a BC go without declaring "epic" love to GA, because if we know one thing about BC, it's that she's really only defined by Ollie/sarcasm.

[SmallScreenDiva]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm uncomfortable at the implication that it's Felicity's fault that Oliver is unhappy right now because she convinced him to come back from Ivy Town. 

I didn't get that implication from Oliver's words, but I did think "wow, Oliver is such a shitty hero for Star City," LOL! Dude sure did sound like he really, really didn't want to come back. He was content to play house somewhere far, far away with the love of his life (not that I can blame him). 401 really did make it seem like he came back because Felicity wanted to and not because he had an attachment to the city, and I thought that the season would be about him realizing he really does love his city and wants to fight for it, etc. And they kinda touched on that with the whole mayoral campaign thing and the finale with the speech on top of the cab ... except this is Arrow so of course they did it badly and the message got muddled. 

[leopardprint]

31 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Did she really back Felicity, though? Because 5 seconds after saying that it was his lies that broke up his relationship, she's telling him not to be so hard on himself. In retrospect, it could be interpreted as her play for him-- "She broke up with you because you're a liar, but I understand you, and I've forgiven you for all  every shitty thing you've done I've always loved you let's get back together" 

I think the deathbed confession of lifelong love really made everything Laurel said and did suspect. 

30 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I thought that the season would be about him realizing he really does love his city and wants to fight for it, etc. And they kinda touched on that with the whole mayoral campaign thing and the finale with the speech on top of the cab ... except this is Arrow so of course they did it badly and the message got muddled. 

Wasn't there some lip service from the EPs that Susan was supposed to represent the city and he was supposed to win her over like he was winning the city over? With a vague gun bill? Though she definitely did swing from hating him to loving him depending on the day like Star City. 

[insomniadreams88]

2 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Wasn't there some lip service from the EPs that Susan was supposed to represent the city and he was supposed to win her over like he was winning the city over? With a vague gun bill? Though she definitely did swing from hating him to loving him depending on the day like Star City. 

Not just depending on the day. I'm pretty sure her opinion about Oliver changed every few minutes. 

[bijoux]

5 hours ago, leopardprint said:

This is so weird. This is the dialogue I imagine from this scene.

Oliver: "Don't touch me."

Susan: "Haha, I'm touching you."

Oliver: *glares* *grinds teeth*

Neither of these people seem to particularly like each other. 

Thing is, I think the storyline would have worked better with Susan intetntionally annoying him most of the time. Carly Pope is not without charm and I think she was hindered by the way Susan was written or underwritten. They could have even fallen into bed together while being semi on the outs, then Oliver asks her out on a date because he doesn't want to be that guy anymore and boom, Chase kidnaps Susan because he catches wind of it. All the bases why they needed Susan there would have been covered.

[leopardprint]

32 minutes ago, bijoux said:

Thing is, I think the storyline would have worked better with Susan intetntionally annoying him most of the time.

Susan Williams was basically gaslighting the audience because almost everything she did was objectively super shady and Oliver (and the EPs) reacted to anything she did as if she was the height of journalistic ethics and romantic partnership. (No, Oliver it is not normal for your girlfriend to have an extensive background file on you, Dumdum! Or to have post-coital meetings with a PI) Maybe that's why she was so universally disliked because the show was basically treating the audience like idiots with that character.

I would have had much less of a problem if she HAD been out to get him because then she would have had a point.

I think their relationship as presented had nothing to do with anything else going on in the show and just didn't seem to fit with where Oliver was at that time, even before the 520 flashbacks. 

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[bijoux]

I still comfort myself that Susan's storyline was conceived differently, but then thye changed it because of BTS and Willa's episode count going down.

[lemotomato]

6 minutes ago, leopardprint said:

Maybe that's why she was so universally disliked because the show was basically treating the audience like idiots with that character.

I wouldn't say she was universally disliked. Some of the male reviewers of the show thought she was great. (And the anti-Olicity faction, but that's a given)

[tangerine95]

I really think it was a horrible idea to have Oliver date a reporter even if she wasn't shady.I'm sure it would have been hated no matter who he dated because its a stall to the popular main relationship but they probably could have avoided making Oliver so unlikable.They hyped up how important it is to Oliver to be mayor and do a good job but then make him date a reporter who covered city hall and who tried to discredit him before and even used his sister to do it.It's extremely unprofessional and they never adress it,they just act like it's a totally normal relationship to be in.Not to even mention how Oliver never cares that she investigates him,the woman literally paid his security to inform her where he is and he didn't bat an eye at that.

[bijoux]

10 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I wouldn't say she was universally disliked. Some of the male reviewers of the show thought she was great. (And the anti-Olicity faction, but that's a given)

Oh, yes, the great debate about how Thea and Felicity could have put her professional reputation in question. After she had done it twenty times during her run. ?

Edited June 30, 2017 by bijoux

[LeighAn]

6 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I wouldn't say she was universally disliked. Some of the male reviewers of the show thought she was great. (And the anti-Olicity faction, but that's a given)

Yep Matt Chris and Damien acted like they had been personally and mortally wounded in their soul by Felicity and Thea's machinations to get rid of Susan. Despite Susan basically showing a low form of journalistic ethics by sleeping with her subject in the first place.

 

ETA: Or what @bijoux said

Edited June 30, 2017 by LeighAn

[leopardprint]

2 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I still comfort myself that Susan's storyline was conceived differently, but then thye changed it because of BTS and Willa's episode count going down.

Well, apparently it's not over! 

4 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

I wouldn't say she was universally disliked. Some of the male reviewers of the show thought she was great. (And the anti-Olicity faction, but that's a given)

Really? My impression was more like indifference was the most positive emotion other than the knee jerk journalist defense during 515.

How about mostly disliked? 

[lemotomato]

Just now, leopardprint said:

Really? My impression was more like indifference was the most positive emotion other than the knee jerk journalist defense during 515.

How about mostly disliked? 

I'll take mostly disliked. :) 

But yeah, I remember Chris Hayner wrote an article about how Susan was the best reporter ever and a great addition to the show, I think right before or during winter hiatus? It made me seriously side eye him.

[BkWurm1]

6 hours ago, insomniadreams88 said:

 

Wasn't this also the same episode that Laurel mentioned a job opening at PT for Alex to Thea? That suggested that Laurel was at the very least talking to Felicity on the phone/hanging out/something? (I don't know, I always found the "friendship" they wanted us to think existed - though everything had to happen off-screen since they never showed those two spending time together - between Felicity and Laurel odd.) After the "deathbed" confession, I remember wondering what Laurel was saying to Felicity post-breakup considering how she was acting with Oliver and that confession. 

ETA: I think this is a case where they don't realize that writing one thing can affect how other moments/scenes are seen/interpreted. 

I couldn't help look back and imagine that Laurel cozied up to Felicity and was super sympathetic about how awful Oliver was and went out of her way to remind Felicity of her hurt and betrayal if it ever seemed like Felicity was weakening on her stance.  Do stuff like say again and again how Oliver will never change or that he can never be trusted in a relationship.  And all the while scheming on how she can get Oliver to turn to her with his pain so she can swoop in and snag him while he was vulnerable.    

6 hours ago, tv echo said:

No script pages, but here's some dialogue from the two O/L scenes in Episode 417 as aired (post-Olicity breakup)...

Scene 1:
(Oliver is punching a workout pillar when he turns to block a punch from Laurel.)
Laurel: "Wow. You really do have eyes in the back of your head."
Oliver: "I thought you had work to do."
Laurel: "I realized it could wait. You've been pushing us pretty hard, and I know why. Oliver, it's okay to miss Felicity."
Oliver: "I - I appreciate what you're doing, but I don't think that you're the –“
Laurel: "Person to help you through it? Why? Because of what we used to have?"
Oliver: "Yeah."
Laurel: "I thought maybe it just gave me a little insight."
Oliver: "Well, I mean, in fairness, I did wreck what we had, too, so -"
Laurel: "In your defense, you were missing and presumed dead for five years, but that's not what I mean. I know how passionately you love and how much it hurts once that love goes away."
Oliver: "You know, between... Merlyn, Slade Wilson and Ra's Al Ghul, I thought that I'd be a little tougher than this by now."
Laurel: "That's a different type of pain, and this takes longer to heal. But I'm here for you."
Oliver: "Thank you."

Scene 2:
Laurel: "Nobody needs to hear that, Oliver. I know you're hurting, but you can't take it out on Curtis."
Oliver: "I'm not taking it out on Curtis. I just need him to see."
Laurel: "See what?"
Oliver: "That this is not a good life. I walked away from it, and I was happy. For the first time in eight years, I was content."
Laurel: "So why did you come back?"
Oliver: "I came back because of Felicity. She convinced me that we could do this job - that we could save this city and not surrender to the darkness, but... I don't - I don't think that we can."
Laurel: "You're only saying that right now because you're in 10 different kinds of pain, but the harsh truth is that Felicity - she broke up with you because of your choices, because lies that you told. You, Oliver, not the Green Arrow."
Oliver: "I know. It just doesn't seem fair that I can save a city and not save my relationship."
Laurel: "Oliver, life's not fair, whether you're in Star City or Ivy Town. But you're right. You can save this city. You do it every night. You're a beacon of hope to people. (Puts her hand on Oliver's arm) I just wish that you would try and use some of that hope for yourself." (Uses her hand to cup Oliver's face for a long moment)

Yeah, even when this aired I couldn't help but feel like Laurel was enjoying her new found position with Oliver. Finally he was turning to her!  Ok, not turning, but she kept pushing him to turn to her and in the meantime, she got to touch his face!  (And he only tried to punch her once!)

2 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Or the angry/annoyed face Laurel makes throughout this scene, when Oliver and Felicity are all giddy with excitement about making an announcement and showing them the new lair 

This is also when Thea thought Oliver's special announcement was going to be having asked Felicity to marry him and when she shouted "Why aren't you wearing it?".  And Laurel's last line after being shown everything is to Felicity asking what Thea was talking about.  I honestly think Laurel's frown in the super cool elevator and the dirty look she shot Felicity was her figuring out Thea had meant a ring.  I just can't remember if I always thought that or if now with Laurel's "death bed" confession, it recolors all her earlier actions.  

Edited June 30, 2017 by BkWurm1

[statsgirl]

I got the impression that Matt Mitovich, Damien Holbrook and Chris Haynter got defensive of Susan because she was one of them and hence one of the good guys.  They were even more up in arms when she was so unfairly accused of plagiarism.  Mitovich even said something about it being unfair that everyone was so critical of her, which prompted a number of long posts and which he said "oh, okay".

36 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

I really think it was a horrible idea to have Oliver date a reporter even if she wasn't shady.I'm sure it would have been hated no matter who he dated because its a stall to the popular main relationship but they probably could have avoided making Oliver so unlikable.They hyped up how important it is to Oliver to be mayor and do a good job but then make him date a reporter who covered city hall and who tried to discredit him before and even used his sister to do it.It's extremely unprofessional and they never address it,they just act like it's a totally normal relationship to be in.Not to even mention how Oliver never cares that she investigates him,the woman literally paid his security to inform her where he is and he didn't bat an eye at that.

More than that, they acted like it's a great move for Oliver because he's showing his independence and moving on from Felicity.

[leopardprint]

20 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

More than that, they acted like it's a great move for Oliver because he's showing his independence and moving on from Felicity.

Well it showed the opposite, that Oliver should not make decisions unsupervised by Felicity (or Diggle in an emergency).

Edited June 30, 2017 by leopardprint

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

This is also when Thea thought Oliver's special announcement was going to be having asked Felicity to marry him and when she shouted "Why aren't you wearing it?".  And Laurel's last line after being shown everything is to Felicity asking what Thea was talking about.  I honestly think Laurel's frown in the super cool elevator and the dirty look she shot Felicity was her figuring out Thea had meant a ring.  I just can't remember if I always thought that or if now with Laurel's "death bed" confession, it recolors all her earlier actions.  

Looking at that again, Laurel is super frowny and arms crossed in the elevator. She's definitely not pleased about something.

Earlier, Laurel told Thea not to tell Oliver about The Sara Caper because she didn't want his judgey judgement of her.  She reiterated that feeling in the hospital after Sara attacked Thea.  So Laurel didn't want Oliver judging her (a flip from their pre-island times and s1 and 2 when she judged him) and her solution was to keep secrets from the leader of her team. Yeah, there's a match made in heaven.

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, leopardprint said:

I would have had much less of a problem if she HAD been out to get him because then she would have had a point.

It would also have worked if she'd been out to get Oliver (or just out to get The Story on Oliver) but ultimately changed her mind because she decided that she liked him.

Instead it feels like Susan was a neighbor who drives a windowless van, brings people home that we don't see leaving, runs weird heavy machinery in the middle of the night and often goes out to dispose of heavy bags full of... something.  And then the EPs are shocked, shocked when we think she might be a serial killer when she's acting like a serial killer.

[Featherhat]

17 minutes ago, johntfs said:

It would also have worked if she'd been out to get Oliver (or just out to get The Story on Oliver) but ultimately changed her mind because she decided that she liked him.

Instead it feels like Susan was a neighbor who drives a windowless van, brings people home that we don't see leaving, runs weird heavy machinery in the middle of the night and often goes out to dispose of heavy bags full of... something.  And then the EPs are shocked, shocked when we think she might be a serial killer when she's acting like a serial killer.

They'll never convince the that they didn't originally have something else in mind with Susan, although I really don't need het back in S6 to deal with whatever it is, so I hope she isn't.

She was oh so awesome and amazing that Oliver basically said "I'm sorry you got kidnapped but you're storyline's over now so good bye because now Felicity  and I need to make "get drunk, get horny via Salmon Ladder, have sex in the lair and talk about some of our issues actual canon and not fanfiction. "

[Morrigan2575]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

I still comfort myself that Susan's storyline was conceived differently, but then thye changed it because of BTS and Willa's episode count going down.

Yeah, I've decided that's the best explanation for the aborted Susan (WTF?) Storyline.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Yup, that's how I see Susan's story line, too. Though, I also wonder if Arrow again ran out of time and decided to "close" Susan's story line, because they were gearing up for the finale, with plans to reopen it at a later time. It would, in a bad way, also explain why the story never went anywhere.

Edited July 1, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[Mellowyellow]

5 hours ago, lemotomato said:

I'll take mostly disliked. :) 

But yeah, I remember Chris Hayner wrote an article about how Susan was the best reporter ever and a great addition to the show, I think right before or during winter hiatus? It made me seriously side eye him.

Is that shippy Chris????

[lemotomato]

3 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

Is that shippy Chris????

Was he? I remember him being supportive of Felicity/EBR (he was totally on her side when the BMD happened) , but I can't remember if he shipped Olicity.

[Chaser]

I think you are thinking of another Chris. I think his last name starts with a K.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Chris King.

[Mellowyellow]

Ahh yes thanks guys! I knew there was a totally shippy Chris!

[Primal Slayer]

I never saw anything romantic coming from Laurel/KC in this scene. She felt sorry for him. The entire scene played very well between them and should've come like 2 seasons before.

[catrox14]

5 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

I never saw anything romantic coming from Laurel/KC in this scene. She felt sorry for him. The entire scene played very well between them and should've come like 2 seasons before.

The thing is that she had no reason to touch his face to communicate pity for him. Why play it that way? But it is KC and she makes questionable acting choices in all of her interactions with SA IMO, YMMV

[Primal Slayer]

Of course she didn't have to just like she didn't have to touch his shoulder but that's just how she chose to do it. In that scene she saw a much more vulnerable Oliver and everything about it played pitty to me. 

[catrox14]

2 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

Of course she didn't have to just like she didn't have to touch his shoulder but that's just how she chose to do it. In that scene she saw a much more vulnerable Oliver and everything about it played pitty to me. 

I understood that's how you saw it. I was just giving my own opinion as to why I don't think her making that acting choice really served to communicate pity for Oliver. That's all. Her character had no reason to touch his face. Just like she had no reason to grin like an idiot when she got got the jacket from Sara as she was going back to the people who might just kill or torture her again.  I'm just saying that I think KC doesn't get nuance and makes acting choices that make no sense for certain scenes and for the life of me, I'll never understand why the directors let those choices stand but hey, that's just me :).