S05.E12: Bratva

[BkWurm1]

First impressions and then I'll read the thread. 

I pretty solid episode despite Oliver at the end sleeping with Rayporter.  At least it's just a post coital snuggle and her probing him about his time on the island and his tattoo leading directly to her meeting with her source about Oliver's previous time in Russia.  Not seeing how she's not shady.  Also note to self, anytime Oliver visits Russia, expect him to make bad choices in regards to who he sleeps with in that episode.  It was kind of odd that they tied him coming to terms with his past and deciding to sleep with Susan.

One could have read into his comment about his past holding him back something about Olicity but really that's not what the episode was selling.  The past he was struggling with was his own personal darkness and how it affects others around him. 

I wish that Tinah wasn't the one that gave him the heart to heart because while really it's not anything that hasn't been said before, it didn't make much sense coming from someone that should be even further down the rabbit hole with coming to terms with her past than Oliver.  Still, the scene didn't scream intimacy.  Just that there was no one else there at the moment.  

I immediately picked up on the scene that people in the Spoiler section were talking about in the preview.  I skipped watching it ahead of time so didn't even know when it was suppose to have happened and I was totally jarred out of the scene when she delivered her line.  Not a flirty or sexy line at all but the actress delivered it as if it should have been.  Very odd choice.

Oh and I really hate the new Canary Cry.  The tone is the worst.  Like a dolphin in a blender. Drowning.   With Laurel it was the visual, this time the tone is so bad I don't even notice if there's anything off with the visual.  

Felicity was just a badass and sorry, I don't think that issuing a threat that I'm positive she was bluffing about is crossing a line when a nuclear bomb going off is at stake.  That's radically different than Dig torturing someone.  The attitude toward knowledge as a slippery slope to evil is really weird.  I think that Rory wasn't so worried about that she blackmailed someone but that she did it so well that they guy looked terrified.  I think he freaked out that she could sell it so well.

Frankly, if Oliver found out what she did with her bluff, I think he'd have been proud of her for pulling it off even while worried she was taking too many risks in facing the guy like that.  

The hug was nice.  Not epic but unexpected and I really did love Oliver running to her and Felicity not saying a word and just going into the hug as the bomb went off.  It was more a case of their chemistry than probably scripting but I liked it.

I was almost surprised when Rory really left, but at least he promised to come back sometime.  I know someone on these boards called him shorting out the rags after containing the blast so kudos for calling it. 

I missed Lance a lot and found Rene the most tolerable he's ever been with Quentin not taking any of his crap but still eventually apologizing.  I also liked that the reason Rene was left behind was worry that he'd get them all blown up or something.

Speaking of not trusting the newbies, Felicity isn't really warmed up to Tinah yet is she.  "Unknown"  factor so she takes her boys instead for back up and then she'd rather hide in the van alone than hang out with the rest of the team.  Not that she's anti Backstop (so meta) but there was no warmth there.

One thing I found kind of alarming was Oliver saying the reason he worked with John and Felicity is because they were better than him.  Does that mean that he'd stop working with Felicity if she goes "dark" or are we to remember the part where Dig tells him they aren't better than him but that they all make each other better??  Please be the later.  

And also, would the show runners please remember that letting OTA work together really DOES make everything better? 

Boo to Anatoly making Tinah his new favorite American because she can hold her vodka better than Felicity and Curtis.  

Edited February 9, 2017 by BkWurm1

[Hiveminder]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

I liked it too.  Oliver in Russia was fine.  It's the sleeping with the reporter when she's investigating Billy's death dumbness I have a problem with.

I don't have a problem with Dinah other than the use of the scream which I hate.  I just thought she came across as more alpha than Oliver and I'm not sure how I feel about it.  I'm used to Oliver being THE alpha on this show.

I agree that Oliver often does very dumb things, and that dating Susan is one of them. I just think that the way the Olicity breakup and it's aftermath were handled along with BTS and promotional shenanigans have created a lot of discontent that has been focused onto Oliver. He's an easy target because he does many dumb things. 

I completely understand why people are upset that Oliver is with Susan because I am too, but I've never felt that this relationship is quite at the level of 'Oliver truly does have only one brain cell, and it's located in his dick, and it's also very selfish and inconsiderate towards all of his friends and family' that I feel like many people view it. The man's trying to move on, and he made a poor choice. It happens. 

[Cthulhudrew]

Thoughts at the 3/4 mark:

Episode started out a bit shaky. Rory and (especially) Michael as Bratva didn't work for me. Wild Dog as PR assistant for Quentin? (but yay! Paul Blackthorne's back!!!!) Seemed like the episode was trying to cover a lot of ground after treading a bit more slowly the last couple of episodes, and that is never good (it's the "second season" phenomenon, when you've been given a 2nd season, and suddenly don't quite know how to pace things out and cram everything into the last few episodes).

That said, by the point I'm at, I'm really enjoying the interplays here.

• Wild Dog and his lack of decorum actually seems to be just what Quentin might need.
• Rory as the person to notice and point out that Felicity's overzealousness about Havenrock might be leading her down the dark side? Perfect. (They really need to give Rory/Joe Dinicol more screen time! He's this season's gem!)
• Oliver going dark to try and save Dig and Felicity from treading that same road. Good.
• New Black Canary laying the wisdom on Oliver? I was iffy on her last episode, but if this isn't just a case of her suddenly getting all insightful for plot, and they keep writing her like this and Juliana Harkavnky keeps playing her like this? I'm all in.

So hopefully the last 15 minutes keep the momentum going.

[way2interested]

If ignoring a 2 minute scene is all I need to do to really like an episode, I can deal with that.

[Trisha]

27 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Wow. I was surprised when I read the comments here because I really liked this episode, and I liked Oliver in it.

I liked it too! One of the best of the season so far. Great OTA, multiple mentions of Havenrock, Oliver wasn't  oblivious to the fact that Diggle and Felicity were going dark, short but good flashbacks, nice use of Lance, some great acting by EBR (her ice cold blackmail in the tea room was impressive) and a bit of reassurance that they're not trying to redeem/retcon Susan's character. 

I also loved that Steven looked so confused when Dinah touched his hand, and absolutely checked out when he was in bed with Susan. There was a moment when it looked like he was going to kiss the top of her head but then was like nah. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Trisha

[BkWurm1]

17 minutes ago, benteen said:

Where is Thea?

Looking into some initiatives that Oliver the Mayor wanted.  Whatever that meant.  

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

So they really got rid of my favourite recruit? Boo. That's already strike two with these people this season, the first being them shipping Thea off to Whateverland. Strike three will be them getting rid of Adrian Chase and keeping all the leftover newbies and recurring characters whom I dislike. 

I'll get around to watching the episode, but now I have very little desire to. Unless someone can give me some positives. 

Rory promised to come back.  Quentin was entertaining.  Talia is still kind of awesome.  Good OTA and awesome Felicity scene.  

32 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

Wow. I was surprised when I read the comments here because I really liked this episode, and I liked Oliver in it. I definitely think being in a relationship with Susan is dumb and I don't like that he's with her instead of Felicity, but I'm not angry at him for having sex with her. We all know she's not here for the long haul. 

And I like Dinah, and her interaction with Oliver. I'm not seeing any romance between them, and she seems pretty decent so far. 

I'm surprised that you read the comments as mostly negative.  I thought what I'd read was mostly positive about the episode.  Interesting how easy it is to come up with different interpretations.  

[way2interested]

Just now, BkWurm1 said:

 Interesting how easy it is to come up with different interpretations.  

That pretty much sums up the spoilers for the last 3 episodes.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Episode started out a bit shaky. Rory and (especially) Michael as Bratva didn't work for me.

Did you mean Curtis?

[Artsda]

Rory was my favorite, what the heck they got rid of him!

[Mellowyellow]

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

The hug was nice.  Not epic but unexpected and I really did love Oliver running to her and Felicity not saying a word and just going into the hug as the bomb went off.  It was more a case of their chemistry than probably scripting but I liked it.

 

We only got a finger poke last week! This week we've graduated to hug!!!!!!! It's all on the up and up!!!!! 

[Cthulhudrew]

DAMMMIT!

Just when I was done praising how awesome Rory/Ragman is, they write him out of the show!?!?!?!

(Hopefully it is just temporary).

I remain half convinced that reporter girl will still turn out to be Prometheus. And a little disappointed that Anatoly's dreadful favor just turned out to be intimidating a rival into stopping his business. The Bratva couldn't have handled that? 

Still, though, I really enjoyed it.

10 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Did you mean Curtis?

D'OH! Yes. Curtis. I was thinking of comic Mr. Terrific. lol

[Hiveminder]

13 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Looking into some initiatives that Oliver the Mayor wanted.  Whatever that meant.  

Rory promised to come back.  Quentin was entertaining.  Talia is still kind of awesome.  Good OTA and awesome Felicity scene.  

I'm surprised that you read the comments as mostly negative.  I thought what I'd read was mostly positive about the episode.  Interesting how easy it is to come up with different interpretations.  

I could have been clearer. I was thinking mostly of the comments on Oliver and the reporter. I think frustration has lead people to overemphasize his dumbness.  I mean, he's no genius, but he's not exactly in the single digit IQ range. 

[statsgirl]

They had to get rid of Rory because he was so much better than Wild Puppy or Curtis. Even Dinah IMO.  Can't have that on the show.

[Chaser]

I enjoyed it. 

I was looking forward to Felicity's storyline, but I'm honestly surprised at how well it was done. Connected to the previous episodes and segued into the next part. I approve. I also liked the conversations with Rory, especially the one in the van. I'm going to miss him. I hope they bring him back when they are wrapping up Felicity's storyline. Also, I needed him and Felicity to hug. 

I loved the role reversals in OTA. Oliver trying to protect and help them was the growth I wanted to see in Oliver this season. I was concerned about Oliver keeping another mission from Felicity but I was okay with this.

I wasn't looking forward to Tinah at all but I found myself liking her. I thought she would be all over the episode but she really just chilled in the background. I was fine with the conversation with Oliver for the most part. I get why the conversation was with Tinah now. He needed muscle and it couldn't be Diggle, Curtis isn't backup and Rory would give Oliver too much information about Felicity too soon. The buddy snarky snarky vibe is alright with me. 

WD is growing on me. I think Grumpy Lance works better with him than Grumpy Oliver. 

Negatives... I think Reporter is shrinking Oliver's penis and its affecting his brain. The stupid. Holy Hell Batman. It makes me rage so much. 

Stop pretending Olicity didn't happen. It's weak. That being said, and I'm probably reading lots into this, it honestly looked like Oliver thought something was going on with Felicity and Rory and he was racing out to stop it. LOL

[apinknightmare]

1 minute ago, Hiveminder said:

I think frustration has lead people to overemphasize his dumbness.  I mean, he's no genius, but he's not exactly in the single digit IQ range. 

IDK, I think that pursuing a relationship with a person that he met while she was manipulating his sister into giving her info so she could run an expose on his administration is stupid enough. Pursuing a relationship with a chick who he knows is shady and also investigating a murder he committed is actual rock-eating moron territory. If he's in this with both eyes open and isn't trying to make it 'real,' that's one thing. If he's not then that's pretty freaking stupid. 

[Sunshine]

18 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I don't know - I thought she made it pretty clear that offering herself up was about Havenrock and nukes and not wanting that to happen again rather than sacrificing herself on principle. It could be - I'd never count that out with this show - but I don't think so.

That's what I thought too so I was surprised when I saw the tweets.

[ladylaw99]

That was not what I expected.

 I hate that Rory is gone, I will miss him on this show. I will miss his friendship with Felicity. They were so great together, I will miss their talks. Now who is she going to have? He said he would be back, so I am holding these writers to this.  I'm sure I will be disappointed .

I missed my OTA, they work so good together. I love everything about that team. I like this Felicity, I like that she takes charge, that she has a storyline of her own. I love Anatoly he just brings something  different  to the show. I am not sure how I feel about Dinah, to be honest she is just there  , so for me that is a plus, but I can't deal with the canary cry.

I missed Lance, now we need Thea back pronto. WD is like Dinah he is just there. I don't hate them but if they were to leave I would not she'd a tear.

I could do with no more heart to heart conversations, they fall on Oliver's deaf ears. Man just doesn't get it. I am tired of every character having to have a tete  a la tete with the man.

Now Susan, what can I say that no one else has. She is a thorn in my side, she better stay shady or I will be mad that I had to sit through these eps with her in it.  She annoys me to no end.  I don't care that she is with Oliver, more power to her, but the fact that Oliver is dumber than rocks in this relationship is just killing me. I have said numerous times that I am not Oliver's biggest fan this season - I can't deal with a hero that is portrayed so dumb.

Last but not least, I know this is unpopular opinion, but the hug did nothing for me, I would have preferred to see Felicity  hug Rory goodbye.  Lol

[Hiveminder]

6 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

IDK, I think that pursuing a relationship with a person that he met while she was manipulating his sister into giving her info so she could run an expose on his administration is stupid enough. Pursuing a relationship with a chick who he knows is shady and also investigating a murder he committed is actual rock-eating moron territory. If he's in this with both eyes open and isn't trying to make it 'real,' that's one thing. If he's not then that's pretty freaking stupid. 

I agree that it's dumb. I just don't think that it's rock-eating moron territory, and I think the level of anger at Oliver I have seen on this forum and other places is somewhat unwarranted.  It kind of feels like some people think he's doing it on purpose to hurt them.

Oliver isn't good at recognizing when women who make his man parts tingly are bad news. We learned that with Helena. Right now, he's trying to move forward with his life and be optimistic. He's probably overlooking some things he shouldn't, but that's a thing that people do. 

[insomniadreams88]

I just rewatched the first OTA scene, and I realized that Felicity welcomed Diggle back. So does that mean that was the first time she saw him since he got out of prison? Or do you think they just didn't think that through and wanted that "welcome back" exchange and figured it could just mean the first time he's back in the lair? 

ETA: Chase commented that the person to thank was whoever got the files, right? Point for Chase in my book. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by insomniadreams88

[apinknightmare]

24 minutes ago, Sunshine said:

That's what I thought too so I was surprised when I saw the tweets.

It certainly seems like some people want her written off. 

[wonderwall]

No offense. But I hope this means that we take the spoilers we are given on this board with a grain of salt. They're accurate - but not the whole picture.

[Chaser]

The Cry looks stupid no matter who does it.

[apinknightmare]

Just now, Chaser said:

The Cry looks stupid no matter who does it.

I especially liked the one she was doing inside, that made it look like she was blowing through the world's largest straw. 

[Chaser]

I couldn't figure out how to describe it. Large straw works.

[BkWurm1]

51 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

IDK, I think that pursuing a relationship with a person that he met while she was manipulating his sister into giving her info so she could run an expose on his administration is stupid enough. Pursuing a relationship with a chick who he knows is shady and also investigating a murder he committed is actual rock-eating moron territory. If he's in this with both eyes open and isn't trying to make it 'real,' that's one thing. If he's not then that's pretty freaking stupid. 

Susan doesn't inspire as much emotion in me as some.  I mean, she's an odd character choice for the show, but she's not important enough in the grand scheme of Arrow for me to be too upset about her.  Or even Oliver being an idiot about her.  And if I wasn't sure he was being an idiot about her before, he made that clear when he actually seemed to think that Thea likes Susan.  

Oliver has been off all season.  He's both darker and more of a wuss at the same time.  Pessimistically resigned while concurrently trying to be redeemed and save others. Robotic and closed off while spilling his guts and bringing in lots of new people.  Basically he anything and everything the script requires at any given moment without a lot of coherence.   

[insomniadreams88]

Did I hear Oliver say Thea doesn't hate Susan when she said Thea glares at her? (Half-watched that scene.) At least that's consistent and they didn't decide to make Thea like her like they had her okay with lying last season. 

[Hiveminder]

2 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Susan doesn't inspire as much emotion in me as some.  I mean, she's an odd character choice for the show, but she's not important enough in the grand scheme of Arrow for me to be too upset about her.  Or even Oliver being an idiot about her.  And if I wasn't sure he was being an idiot about her before, he made that clear when he actually seemed to think that Thea likes Susan.  

Oliver has been off all season.  He's both darker and more of a wuss at the same time.  Pessimistically resigned while concurrently trying to be redeemed and save others. Robotic and closed off while spilling his guts and bringing in lots of new people.  Basically he anything and everything the script requires at any given moment without a lot of coherence.   

I maintain that he's depressed. I don't know that the writers mean to write him that way, but that's what I'm seeing. 

 

2 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Did I hear Oliver say Thea doesn't hate Susan when she said Thea glares at her? (Half-watched that scene.) At least that's consistent and they didn't decide to make Thea like her like they had her okay with lying last season. 

I thought it was supposed to be more of a token protest, even though he knows she's right. 

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, Hiveminder said:

I maintain that he's depressed. I don't know that the writers mean to write him that way, but that's what I'm seeing. 

 

I thought it was supposed to be more of a token protest, even though he knows she's right. 

Yeah, I thought that too. I'm going to pretend that's why Thea's MIA - she doesn't want to deal with Susan. 

I'm seeing depressed at times too. 

[statsgirl]

Token protest or not, Oliver should listen to Thea when she says she doesn't like Susan, Thea's a smart girl.  Or maybe he should just remember what Susan did to Thea. This makes him look desperate to get laid.

Why does Rene still have his facial scars?  It's been three months. Given how fast people heal on Arrow, maybe he should see a doctor.

When Felicity threatened the little Russian man and he said "they will kill my family", I thought about Vladimir Kara-Murza, who is right now on life support, and the other critics of the Kremlin who have been poisoned and died in recent years.

Edited February 9, 2017 by statsgirl

[Delphi]

Ugh,  no.   Rory,  come back,  you are my favourite.   Don't leave me with these dopes....I miss you.   Find Roy!  You two can adventure together,  and I would watch that spin off. 

Felicity keep being you girl.   Keep on hacking and being your bitch with WiFi self. 

Thea.   Where art though?  

Hi Quinton!

Dig,  calm yourself the fuck down. 

Oliver....your an idiot. 

 

And am I the only one who thinks that the reporter looks not unlike a season 1 KC?  Is that on purpose?

[Hiveminder]

3 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

Token protest of not, Oliver should listen to Thea when she says she doesn't like Susan.  Or maybe just remember what Susan did to Thea. This makes him look desperate to get laid.

Seeing as this episode is the first time they've had sex I don't really see desperation. 

[finnaire]

Well, as they say, that happened.

When they told us Felicity was going dark I think they neglected to say that she was going scary.  Holy smokes, green arrow, that was some badass blackmailing right there.  When Ms. Smoak means business she means I’ll rub you under by 4 inch stiletto type business.  I like her and she needs to stay.  And put the screws to shady reporter before Oliver loses all of his remaining brain cells.

Tell me Oliver doesn’t actually think Thea likes shady reporter.  Have we seen Thea one time not act and speak completely disdainfully towards her? Has Oliver become completely lobotomized?  Did the lack of sex this season make him full on stupid? Seriously, the writers really need to let me know because my suspension of disbelief is threatening to collapse in on the idiocy.  He knows she’s a reporter. He knows she’s investigating Billy’s murder.  He knows she’s untrustworthy. But, hey, she’s got a sexy smirk so that’s enough to go all in.  He really needs a comeuppance in a very painful, I told you so kind of way.

What do you know, second episode for Tina and I’m still not actively hating her so thumbs up to the writers for that.  I liked the tête-à-tête with Oliver in the truck. She clearly has no time for his need to be propped.  She might do it once but I have a feeling that she may take him down if he whinges too much and I’d be all for that. My only problem with that scene is I felt like the actress was making a concerted effort not to fling her hair which is a good thing but also highly distracting. Get a hair clip!

And I still don’t know what’s up with Talia. Why does she know about Oliver? Why is she helping him? Why does she care?  And if she’s in any way behind Prometheus I don’t see how she can blame Oliver for what he did in Season 1. I need more intel on her stat. 

So, four female storylines tonight, two get a thumbs up and one gets a pass. Shady reporter gets the cigarette of doom flicked at her. 

[statsgirl]

But then why is Oliver seeing her?  He just reinforced that he get better when he is with Diggle and Felicity.  But he seems to get nothing from Susan, he's not happier or brighter or more grounded or more content when he's with her.  If it's not the sex or the fantasy of having a girlfriend, what does he get from seeing her? 

[Arrow]

Did anyone else notice how when Susan was talking to that guy at the end of the episode they were talking about how the "archer" appeared in Russia the same time Oliver was there but he never used a bow while he was there in the present. He used while he was there with Talia but there is no real way to make that connection. Like they have said before when they were looking for an archer that killed Sara in season 3, there are hundreds of hit men that use a bow and arrow.

[Velocity23]

See it was all about the Bratva tattoo! I cannot stop laughing. 

[ohjoy]

From a side angle I think Tinah looks like Rayporter, but from the front I can see the resemblance to Talia (although I don't necessarily think Rayporter and Talia look alike). The casting really went for a specific type of female look this year.

They've really toned down Rene. I don't dislike him at all now (I may have even "awww"-d a couple of times tonight), but I wouldn't necessarily miss him either (or Curtis for that matter). I am going to miss Rory. Come back, Ragman! Felicity needs a friend!

[BkWurm1]

1 hour ago, Hiveminder said:

I maintain that he's depressed. I don't know that the writers mean to write him that way, but that's what I'm seeing. 

You're not alone.  He's going through the motions but there's no happiness, just guilt and regrets and worry. Either that or robot Oliver.

[BkWurm1]

48 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

 

Why does Rene still have his facial scars?  It's been three months. Given how fast people heal on Arrow, maybe he should see a doctor.

 

Lol, I was thinking that he should at least bust out the concealer.  

 

30 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But then why is Oliver seeing her?  He just reinforced that he get better when he is with Diggle and Felicity.  But he seems to get nothing from Susan, he's not happier or brighter or more grounded or more content when he's with her.  If it's not the sex or the fantasy of having a girlfriend, what does he get from seeing her? 

I think Susan is him going through the motions of moving on.  He thinks he should be doing it and hey, she's around.  Why not?  (Ok, there are a hundred reasons but he's not thinking of any of them clearly. )

[Hiveminder]

52 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

But then why is Oliver seeing her?  He just reinforced that he get better when he is with Diggle and Felicity.  But he seems to get nothing from Susan, he's not happier or brighter or more grounded or more content when he's with her.  If it's not the sex or the fantasy of having a girlfriend, what does he get from seeing her? 

He can no longer have a relationship with the love of his life, and he doesn't want to be that guy that pines and can't let go and ends up alone fifty years from now with nothing but regrets. Oliver wants to be happy. He's making a sincere effort at moving on, but he's also, in my opinion, depressed and a very busy man. He doesn't have the time, energy, or motivation to go out and meet someone. Susan's there. She's attractive. She wants to be with him. 

She's investigating him, yeah, but he doesn't know that. And yes, she did a shitty thing to Thea, but Oliver's done some shitty things too, and he's seen people he loves do some really shitty things. He knows that's not all there is to a person. Plus, maybe subconsciously he feels he deserves someone who's not such a great person. Oliver has more than his fair share of self-hate affecting his decisions. 

Edited February 9, 2017 by Hiveminder

[wonderwall]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

 

But then why is Oliver seeing her?  He just reinforced that he get better when he is with Diggle and Felicity.

 

Someone on tumblr put it succinctly:

"At least Felicity picks decent guys. Oliver’s dick is like…“If it’s not Felicity I’m a total fuck up. Please save me” [source]

LOL

[SleepDeprived]

Dear Arrow: I don't appreciate the visual assault in this episode. My reflexive reach for eye bleach because of that post-coital scene is totally on you! Eye bleach is not gentle to the orbitals, okay? I'm suing for damages.

I see Thea Queen is still doing an impeccable yet outstanding impersonation of Carmen Sandiego. Where in the world are you, girl??!!

This is the very first time I've seen Tinah in action and I'm super whelmed. Cannot see any romantic chemistry between them but more of a buddy-bud kind. At least, she pulls off the looking/acting tough thing as SC's Next Black Canary much better than her predecessor? Meh. I am neither thrilled nor am I offended by her presence. She's just... there. Talia, on the other hand, is cool and I hope she pops up in the present timeline because I like her. She can bring along Nyssa, too. But, much like Curtis and Wild Dong (whose scenes with Lance were absolute filler but I didn't find him annoying so that's a good thing, I guess), Tinah can just sit in the background, and be extra muscle or whatever, while my OTA works together.

OTA together again. I've missed their trio a lot. It was really good seeing them in scenes talking to each other again with Felicity and Diggle being allowed to acknowledge that they are actually friends, too. I liked that concerned glance Diggle gave Felicity as she tried not to look at him when Oliver mentioned that they were both crossing lines.

Shout-out to David Ramsey's black tank top! I appreciate it's presence so much and almost think that it absolutely stole the whole episode (the scene with Felicity and her bodyguards was a reeeaallly close second). You mean to say that I should pay attention that Diggle was torturing a dude by pummeling him like a sack of meat and going off-the-rails? Oh, oh, yeah! But the tank top! It was tight, perfectly fitted, cut in just the right places, showed off all the right assets... It's the best male article of clothing on this show, so far, this season and should definitely be the only thing Diggle wears now and forevermore.

Felicity was all kinds of hot and scary as a blackmailing faux-Russian mobster, though. I'm digging the "dark Felicity" arc, so far. I hope the writers don't boil this down to a simple black and white/wrong and right thing but that they actually delve into the morally gray aspects of all that Felicity is starting to do now/has gotten herself involved in. I'm probably hoping for too much, knowing how these writers operate, but a girl can dream. Anyway, I really love Rory and Felicity's friendship. I love how perceptive he is and his being so concerned about Felicity that he sought her out when she was having her alone time in the van was sweet. Also sweet was how he tried to tattle on her so fast when Oliver came bursting in the van. Their hangar scene with Felicity wanting to take responsibility for the nuke to save everyone else and him thinking fast with his rags so he can save her from herself was also great. He's my fave boob so, of course, he's the one the show gets rid of. Le sigh.

Rory:

[thegirlsleuth]

I didn't really enjoy the episode even before the final cuddle.  There were some zingy caper hijinks, and I am intrigued by Felicity's dark turn, but Oliver's emotional beats seemed hollow. I feel like we've had so many bouts of Oliver needing to come to terms with the darkness inside that this felt like a retread. Perhaps I was in a bad mood, but even Diggle's OTA speech felt lacking to me because as he and Oliver talked about how the big three needed each other, Felicity wandered off and didn't participate in the conversation, which made me feel like the writers were hitting the OTA button without any real intention behind it. 

Plus we lost Rory, the only character that was a listener rather than a talker.  I don't know whether I want it to be romantic, but by the end I was wishing that Felicity would pack her bag and go with him.  The two of them could attend art and wine festivals where Rory tried to sell his art, and between bouts of coming to terms with the huge losses she's experienced over the last year, Felicity could log in to the system and do searches that would help them nail Prometheus. They could even fight crime in each town they came to.  I would so watch that show.

I don't know what to make of Oliver and the reporter, mostly because we aren't even getting Oliver's POV on this relationship.  Either Oliver is oblivious despite his close friend's and family's warnings, or he knows what Susan's doing and has set up a honey pot to lure her into making a slip using his sexual wiles.  I don't mind if Oliver just wants sex, but if he is using sex as a point of manipulation it is kind of vile.

Stephen Amell looked exhausted again this week.  Did he piss off the hair and makeup people?

[EmilyBettFan]

Yeah that last OTA speech from Diggle was odd since you could only see Felicity as a blur in the background sitting down with Curtis and Rory.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, Hiveminder said:

 

She's investigating him, yeah, but he doesn't know that. And yes, she did a shitty thing to Thea, but Oliver's done some shitty things too, and he's seen people he loves do some really shitty things. He knows that's not all there is to a person. Plus, maybe subconsciously he feels he deserves someone who's not such a great person. Oliver has more than his fair share of self-hate affecting his decisions. 

He doesn't know about the Russia part but he knows she is investigating the death of Malone and he was the one who killed him. He should know that opening up to her is potentially dangerous for him.

[bijoux]

4 hours ago, Sunshine said:

Did anyone see Felicity willing to try to fly a plane with a nuke to get it to a less inhabited place (before Rory took care of the matter) as foreshadowing of Felicity sacrificing herself to take out Prometheus at season's end?  Never crossed my mind but I saw some tweets to that effect.  Anyone else think so? 

I didn't see it like that but as paralleling her to Oliver of yore, seeing her sacrificing herself as a solution. Which did ring some alarm bells, because you don't want to be the person who willingly goes to meet their maker. See going to Slade to get yourself killed and crashing the plane on which you are one. It's not a death foreshadowing from where I'm watching but a clear sign that Felicity is not in a good place.

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

I think Susan is him going through the motions of moving on.  He thinks he should be doing it and hey, she's around.  Why not?  (Ok, there are a hundred reasons but he's not thinking of any of them clearly. )

Yeah, even him sleeping with her seemed like he realised that they've been kinda sorta going out for a while and he supposed it was time. Sure, there was nothing good on TV that evening anyway. Sigh. Okay, are we done yet?

That was a pretty tame favor Anatoly asked for. Two roughed up thugs and two broken fingers? Really, that's a job for a new recruit. He was just putting Oliver through the motions for the sake of it. He still loves him. I legitimately laughed when Anatoly came round with his minions and they were all rah rah at the end of the scene. So cheesy.

Tinah, I think, is not flirty towards Oliver specifically. It seems to be her default setting. There was something flirty about some of her line delivery at the airport with Dig, even though it wasn't directed at Dig. It's strange but not the most awful thing to have happened on this show. They need to train on handling nuclear weapons stat though.

[lemotomato]

Is this the episode that they were working on when SA got head-butted and had to have his shiner covered up? He looked like he was wearing concealer in the OTA scene at the safehouse. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

When wild puppy isn't being an ass and tries to be helpful he is enjoyable! I think the writers changed direction with him. He seems more like Roy used to be lately.

Oh wow Felicity is intimidating, I love it! Oliver saying "what line?" after Rory told him about her just before cutting to Dig punching that man made me laugh, I don't know if that was the purpose, LOL

"you, me, Felicity make each other better" awww that was sweet.

Is Susan sleeping with Oliver for informations? Because ew. I also don't get him. He doesn't act like he honestly likes her. The conversation in bed seemed like he was forcing himself to move forward with her but if he doesn't really like her there are thousands of age appropriate women in SC so start over with someone new and if he is playing her in return than ew. Although maybe I'd take him sleeping with her to play her over him being the dumbest of the dumbs, even with the gross factor, but I don't get what the plan is..to sex her up so good she will abandon her story? LOL

I looove that Felicity will keep going down the rabbit hole. Very good episode. 

[thegirlsleuth]

8 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Is this the episode that they were working on when SA got head-butted and had to have his shiner covered up? He looked like he was wearing concealer in the OTA scene at the safehouse. 

That's exactly where I thought he looked especially exhausted.  Perhaps the shadows I was seeing was the result of his injury.

[Midnight Lullaby]

9 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Is this the episode that they were working on when SA got head-butted and had to have his shiner covered up? He looked like he was wearing concealer in the OTA scene at the safehouse. 

Yes, I think so. The skin under his eye looked yellow.

[thuganomics85]

No, Rory!  I can't believe he's being shipped off, right after he single-handily stopped a nuke!  Hopefully he'll be back soon, but it sucks that the best of the newbies is gone.  Although I'm still willing to give Dinah a chance and Rene continues to surprisingly not suck as much as he used to.  Who knew Quentin would bring the best out of that character?

Kind of a simple episode due to mainly just revisiting Oliver's history with the Bratva (and Anatoly!), while Diggle is on a quest to put down the evil General, but I enjoyed seeing a darker Felicity, even though I suspect her threat really was a bluff, and wouldn't have actually put the family in danger, if the guy called her out on it.  Still, she sure sold the hell out of it, and I can see why Rory was a bit freaked out.  I do think her continuing to be in contact with the hackers will end up backfiring though.

At least it won't end as badly as Oliver/Susan.  So, she comes back, Oliver sleeps with her, and now she not only knows about his past Bratva connections, she is beginning to suspect he's the Green Arrow.  I'm starting to wonder if this is all going to end like the first Iron Man, where he's just at a press conference and is all "Fine, I'm the Green Arrow!" about it.  What's the worst that can happen, at this point?

I'm all for the moments with Original Team Arrow!

Not much is going on with the flashbacks this time around, although I guess it's interesting that Talia was the one who got him focused on the Robert Queen kill list.  Oh, and Anatoly got beat up for questioning Gregor about the Kovar connection, so I guess this will lead to Oliver taking the fight to them, instead of going off with Talia on a "Shoot evil rich guys with arrows" trip.