S03.E10: Day 87/S03.E11: Reunion Special

[Joan Z]

6 hours ago, zamberlan said:

Thanks for that synopsis Joan Z, it's great!

If you guys had to pick just one of them to help you survive a wilderness experience who would you go with? I can't decide between Fowler and Meghan. I liked that Fowler identified the risk of the steep hill before he rolled down it and that he made the best of the worst site. Meghan was so great at the foraging though, something I know very little about.  

As much as I want to choose Fowler, he lacks plants knowledge and I don't want to risk eating poisonous plants. So it come down to Megan or Callie. Both great at foraging but Callie have awesome shelter. Megan's shelter may not be as comfy as Callie's but she seems to know more about trapping. Callie did say that she's not a hunter. So I'd probably go for Megan. 

3 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Can you post the link to that site. It looks interesting. 

The BCUSA forum? Here ya go http://bushcraftusa.com/forum/threads/alone-season-3.182829/page-36

Sometimes it's great to read their comments since they obviously knows a lot about bushcraft and survival. Their comments there are pretty civilized too. Many Alone contestants have posted there. Fowler and David (@Pict) are pretty active there. Callie and Meghan (@Ecologic) have posted there few times. Sam, Joe and Dustin used to be active there too. 

For those who are wondering, Fowler's BMI during the final med check was 21, still a long way to go to drop to 17 so I think it's the right call to pull Carleigh cause unless she caught a boar or geese or tons of fish, no way she can beat Fowler. 

[Canada]

So, basically, in order to win this show, you have to have well-rounded bushcraft skills, a strong mental attitude, be okay with solitude, and be obese when you start.  If you're of a normal weight, the odds are stacked against you.

[walnutqueen]

^^^ Exactly.  Fowler was a tubby wubby chubster when this all started, and looked fairly decent (minus the whole gingy hairiness, my own private prejudice) when it ended.  He also cried on camera - often, and I think some of the women had more mental fortitude than he did - just not the body fat to persevere.

 

ETA - that whole 5 months to recover?  Didn't mean just physically - it was as much mental & emotional as anything else.  She spent "some" time in hospital eating Kiwi fruit and looking pensive - not exactly proof positive that she was on death's doorstep.

Edited February 12, 2017 by walnutqueen

[seasick]

On 2/11/2017 at 3:02 PM, Joan Z said:

she can see multiple fires (from other contestants) across the lake

Yeah--I figured that--and same with the sound of the boats going out.  This changes (ruins) the entire game in my opinion.  I agree it's hard to find locations for 10 that include fresh water, etc and secluded enough to not give anything away--but that's the game--the head game--  "How many are left--how much longer?  Maybe I'm the F2-- just hang on..  This was a lazy compromise for production and another fake-out.  

 Maybe if Callie was able to say  "I could tell there were 4 others still out there and I just knew I didn't want to push it that far"  her tap-out wouldn't have seemed such a cop-out.    

One idea would be to keep their choices of food rations a secret.  They can still get 2 (from the 10 items allowed) but they can choose when they want their rations dropped to them.  

Much thanks @Joan Z for the synopsis.

BTW this weight loss/starvation talk reminds me of "The Biggest Loser".   The one with the highest % of weight loss wins--and it's always been someone who has lost 50+% of their original body weight.  Of course someone  who's original weight is not high enough to withstand that will not win.  One girl went to a very unhealthy place in order to win.  It's a bad premise for the show unless they all need to lose about the same % to achieve their healthy weight.   But at least they stopped having them eat Subway sandwiches.  

[Subrookie]

2 hours ago, Canada said:

So, basically, in order to win this show, you have to have well-rounded bushcraft skills, a strong mental attitude, be okay with solitude, and be obese when you start.  If you're of a normal weight, the odds are stacked against you.

I wish this show was less about who can starve to death slower than everyone else. In three seasons I can't think of one contestant who was thriving. Even with the season 1 winner,  I forget his name,  I don't think would transition from surviving to homesteading. At some point in the winter he would have run out of food. 

I get people like Callie, but she left/gave up. She had a better location than Fowler and probably would have struggled had she stayed another month into the winter. I liked her probably the most but surviving before the winter started to get rough is different than surviving after it got harder to scavenge food.

Probably off topic but watching this makes me think contestants on other shows like Naked and Afraid probably get a lot of unseen producer help to make it any amount of time.

Someday I suppose someone is going to show up with a Dick Proenneke attitude, build a cabin and actually hunt food, try to grow food and last a half a year or more. 

[cooksdelight]

Maybe production needs to throw some challenges at the contestants, via walkie talkie, and whoever does the best job wins some food? Something along the lines of things a true survivalist would know. I don't know, but the longer this show goes on, the less appealing it is for me personally.

[Subrookie]

That sounds very hunger games. I think the contestants are significantly handicapped by being limited to a small area so they don't run into another player. If they were able to find a filming location where each person had a larger area to forage it probably wouldn't be so bad, but I got the feeling that everyone this season was one the same lake or lakes and were given specific rules that they couldn't explore much. 

[riverheightsnancy]

There were quite a few contestants that wanted to "thrive" and not just "survive", I remember Jose being one of them and he talked about that a lot.  Does anyone think that they are purposely putting them in areas that have very little game? I started to wonder this specifically this season. The more game, the longer the show can go. Look at the skills many of these contestants brought to the table and other than Fowler's little bird, NO ONE trapped or shot (with a bow or sling shot) an animal of any kind. I know that we have heard bears and pumas and boar, but obviously not enough for someone to "thrive" on.  basically past the 2nd week, we barely even hear mention of concerns of wild animals. Do they just go away?  If someone were on their own-not on a show with rules, they would have been able to kill the deer that Carleigh saw. That would have been a lot of meat. She saw two I think. I have to wonder how the end might have gone if Dave had eaten everything and not saved anything. it would have been him and Fowler at the end (I think).

[Subrookie]

Jose might not be the best example. Didn't he spend most of his time building a canoe that didn't help him at all and ultimately tipped over ending his time on the show? 

I do think production plans the show in places and locations that work against the contestants. They say the competition could last up to a year, but a year of keeping a full time crew and medical team would be expensive. I've often thought being on the crew would be unbelievably boring, like being on call for 3-4 months. 

So, they pick places that are hard and times where the seasons work against everyone to make sure it doesn't go a year. 

I am surprised no one has ever killed a large land mammal. Other than mice and birds they've not done well. But, at both locations there are land animals they can't kill like the deer this year or cougars in Canada. 

[cooksdelight]

They had fox and boars. Couldn't kill either of them. 

[zamberlan]

Yeah, restricting them to a small area is the problem. In a real life survival situation people would move camp when the resources at one spot grew thin. They should drop them off in northern Canada and monitor them with GPS and  a bush plane. Has anyone said how big of a territory they each got?

[riverheightsnancy]

37 minutes ago, Subrookie said:

Jose might not be the best example. Didn't he spend most of his time building a canoe that didn't help him at all and ultimately tipped over ending his time on the show? 

I do think production plans the show in places and locations that work against the contestants. They say the competition could last up to a year, but a year of keeping a full time crew and medical team would be expensive. I've often thought being on the crew would be unbelievably boring, like being on call for 3-4 months. 

So, they pick places that are hard and times where the seasons work against everyone to make sure it doesn't go a year. 

I am surprised no one has ever killed a large land mammal. Other than mice and birds they've not done well. But, at both locations there are land animals they can't kill like the deer this year or cougars in Canada. 

Jose may not be the best example in terms of application, but he talked a lot about the desire to thrive on the land. He used those words. It was one of his main points and supposedly was the underlying factor for what he did. I think his incessant desire to catch fish speaks to the absolute importance of food to "thrive".  In season 2, Mike sure looked like he was thriving, but he didn't really stay long enough for viewers to ascertain that. Even though there were boar and fox, I have to wonder why no one has had any luck. Dave may have had a real good shot a bagging a boar if he were stronger with his bow. 

[TVbitch]

Just was able to watch. So sad for Carleigh. Fowler deserved it, but it was about as close to a tie as you can get. Mentally/emotionally it probably was a tie. Physcially, Fowler himself said he only had a couple more days in him. I would actually have been okay with TPTB having a pow wow and declaring it a tie, but I guess that would be anti-climactic. I hope they at least slip Carleigh a little bonus money.

Agree with RHN that she got screwed during the reunion. Wasn't she sitting in a two-some to be interviewed, whereas Dave, Fowler and Callie got solo spots. WTF?!  Having said that, Survivor could learn a LOT from Alone about reunion shows. Imagine, actually hearing from each participant instead of listening to Jeff talk. :) 

During the recaps it seemed pretty obvious to me that Fowler packed on quite a few pre-emptive pounds. Maybe Carleigh did too, couldn't tell. Seems like that would be an obvious thing to do. Even Survivor people do that! You can be sure next season's crop will. 

All in all, another great season. Enjoyed everyone's comments here! 

[Goatherd]

So, if Carleigh had chugged down a couple pints of water when she heard the med boat coming, she might have won? That's...frustrating.

[Joan Z]

11 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

ETA - that whole 5 months to recover?  Didn't mean just physically - it was as much mental & emotional as anything else.  She spent "some" time in hospital eating Kiwi fruit and looking pensive - not exactly proof positive that she was on death's doorstep.

Carleigh's friend said she choked up watching reunion and it's been 6 months since the filming ended. I don't blame her, it must be tough when you want it so bad but was taken away when you got so close. 

10 hours ago, seasick said:

Yeah--I figured that--and same with the sound of the boats going out.  This changes (ruins) the entire game in my opinion.  I agree it's hard to find locations for 10 that include fresh water, etc and secluded enough to not give anything away--but that's the game--the head game--  "How many are left--how much longer?  Maybe I'm the F2-- just hang on..  This was a lazy compromise for production and another fake-out.  

 Maybe if Callie was able to say  "I could tell there were 4 others still out there and I just knew I didn't want to push it that far"  her tap-out wouldn't have seemed such a cop-out.    

One idea would be to keep their choices of food rations a secret.  They can still get 2 (from the 10 items allowed) but they can choose when they want their rations dropped to them.  

Much thanks @Joan Z for the synopsis.

BTW this weight loss/starvation talk reminds me of "The Biggest Loser".   The one with the highest % of weight loss wins--and it's always been someone who has lost 50+% of their original body weight.  Of course someone  who's original weight is not high enough to withstand that will not win.  One girl went to a very unhealthy place in order to win.  It's a bad premise for the show unless they all need to lose about the same % to achieve their healthy weight.   But at least they stopped having them eat Subway sandwiches.  

Callie can see smoke in the distance but she didn't know there were 4 left until after she tap out. 

Talking about lack of food and malnourished, I think the show would never go past 3 or 4 months long unless they make some changes like the 10 tools, location or the season they're filming. 

[Joan Z]

Jami (Fowler's wife) posted this on Fowler's diet after the show 

Quote

When Fowler came out of the wilderness he was on what is known as a re-feeding diet which is standard for people coming out of starvation. He had a lot of broth and simple, easy to digest foods that would put his health at risk. It takes energy and vitamins to digest food, and when you are running on empty for both of those and then eat "complex" foods you can run into very serious health problems, including death.

I'm not sure about the people that came out before they hit serious starvation though.

And then Fowler posted this 

Quote

It was very Heard coming out thought I could stuffed myself on delicious things and found out I'd have to be on a diet or risk organ failure. Like my wife said simple easy to adjustable food and still I suffered. I was more hungry after coming out then I was out there despite eating the my stomach hurt. Stopping was almost impossible for two weeks. First there's the mental hunger and then there's the actual physical hunger. I licked my plate clean for over a month just because. In the end I had to switch to the ketogenic diet just to feel full and stop the weight gain. 

[seasick]

11 hours ago, TVbitch said:

Having said that, Survivor could learn a LOT from Alone about reunion shows. Imagine, actually hearing from each participant instead of listening to Jeff talk. :) 

ain't that the truth

[rmontro]

On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2017 at 3:02 PM, Joan Z said:

-Dave and Callie were out a day apart so they spent the week together (they spent most of the time in the kitchen cooking and eating). She tapped out on Aug 1st and went back home 8 days later. I guess the 8 days were for recovery?

I wonder what contestants thought when they were "tapping in" to their families only to find themselves stuck in the Loser Lodge on a restricted diet?

By the way, thanks for typing that all out, Joan, no way would I have had the patience to watch that whole video.

[ProfCrash]

I would like to know if they were able to call family when they tap out. I suspect that answer is yes. I also think that people who leave earlier, and are in better shape, probably go home faster then people who are in starvation mode. I suspect that Production keeps them there to make sure that they understand what they can and cannot eat and how to handle the return to regular food. I also think that most people probably decide that it is better to get some sleep and put on some weight so that their family don't freak out at how awful they look when they get home.

[Juliegirlj]

BMI stands for body mass index. It is determined with a formula using your height and weight. 

Body fat percentage is pretty self explanatory. 

Having a bmi below 17 is indeed dangerous, with the most worrisome thing being a fatal heart arrhythmia. 

Carleigh mentioned that gaining the weight back was a journey in itself- I hope she isn't having long term problems as a result. She is young and mentioned a desire for children someday. Women's fertility can be negatively impacted by being underweight. 

I wonder if Dave got some counseling after the show. He seemed manic when the show started, and his food hoarding could have been due to a pre existing mental health issue. He appeared to be calmer and more balanced at the reunion. 

I loved Fowler's shelter, and keeping his brain and hands busy with his projects was very wise. His family is adorable. Was that a brand new car he was driving home? I felt awful for him when his car broke down on the way to the airport. His family will benefit greatly from the winnings! 

[Liberty]

Quote

When Fowler came out of the wilderness he was on what is known as a re-feeding diet which is standard for people coming out of starvation. He had a lot of broth and simple, easy to digest foods that would put his health at risk. It takes energy and vitamins to digest food, and when you are running on empty for both of those and then eat "complex" foods you can run into very serious health problems, including death.

If this is true, it would seem that past a certain point killing and eating a wild pig, or other game, may not be beneficial after a certain point. 

[CoolMom]

4 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

Carleigh mentioned that gaining the weight back was a journey in itself- I hope she isn't having long term problems as a result. She is young and mentioned a desire for children someday. Women's fertility can be negatively impacted by being underweight. 

 

I caught that comment too.  I hope that she doesn't have lasting issues with her weight/mental health over this time in her life.

[Scaeva]

22 hours ago, zamberlan said:

Yeah, restricting them to a small area is the problem. In a real life survival situation people would move camp when the resources at one spot grew thin. They should drop them off in northern Canada and monitor them with GPS and  a bush plane. Has anyone said how big of a territory they each got?

People who historically lived as hunter-gatherers were nomadic as well. People didn't get rooted in one place until they started farming.

I think being restricted within boundaries probably guarantees that eventually resources will be exhausted and hunger will take it's toll. Even if the contestants were plopped into a location where large herbivores were plentiful, I can't imagine big game sticking around once they figure out that humans are nearby.  

Edited February 13, 2017 by Scaeva

[riverheightsnancy]

3 hours ago, Liberty said:

If this is true, it would seem that past a certain point killing and eating a wild pig, or other game, may not be beneficial after a certain point. 

THIS is a major point. It appears that contestants on this show should make a major push for water/food, and shelter. In that order. Obviously, with safety assured, contestants moving forward must make way more effort to stockpile food, because it is all downhill if you don't as we have heard from Fowler, Dave, and Carleigh. I really wonder if anything would have been different if Dave had eaten all of his food over the course of time. The "cool" shelters are useless if you get pulled for starvation. These guys needed to spend all free time fishing, trapping and whatever, while the weather was still warm and fish were still biting. It seems that Dave did well on his fishing in that respect. 

[Canada]

15 hours ago, Joan Z said:

Jami (Fowler's wife) posted this on Fowler's diet after the show 

And then Fowler posted this 

Their diet would also need to be carefully watched due to a severe risk of electrolyte imbalance once they started eating again.  If they aren't watched closely, with many blood tests, for the first few days once they start eating again, they could get severely ill from a large change in their electrolyte levels which can happen when a person starts eating again even after a short period with no/little food.

[zamberlan]

The more I consider all this the more I'm struggling with the ethics of a show like this. The very real health risks of starvation, the long term implications for fertility, the disruption of the natural territory of wild animals, not to mention the hardships on those left behind. If my partner was out there I know I wouldn't sleep well or even be able to enjoy food at home. For those with children that's a long time to hold down the fort...

I've never watched reality shows because of the "freak show" carnival aspect. This one seemed to have normal people facing something I have fantasies about, what I would do if I had to make it alone in the wild, so I made an exception. However, there must be a better way for me to learn about all those awesome skills those people have without having them put their health at risk.

[riverheightsnancy]

4 hours ago, zamberlan said:

The more I consider all this the more I'm struggling with the ethics of a show like this. The very real health risks of starvation, the long term implications for fertility, the disruption of the natural territory of wild animals, not to mention the hardships on those left behind. If my partner was out there I know I wouldn't sleep well or even be able to enjoy food at home. For those with children that's a long time to hold down the fort...

I've never watched reality shows because of the "freak show" carnival aspect. This one seemed to have normal people facing something I have fantasies about, what I would do if I had to make it alone in the wild, so I made an exception. However, there must be a better way for me to learn about all those awesome skills those people have without having them put their health at risk.

I have watched since season one and I have to say, this season brought up a lot of problems and issues that I had never really thought about before.  The Biggest Loser was referenced several times and it is an apt comparison. (they are being sued in a class action right now regarding the weight loss techniques they were encouraged to use and the regaining many go through when they do not stick to the extreme exercise and diets). I don't think Alone is as bad as that show, however, with the info that has come out regarding the re-feeding to get them back to "normal" and all the other issues, it doesn't have the same fun as season one for me. I wish that the producers were more transparent regarding med checks and the stats so claims of producer interference can't be made. 

[cooksdelight]

46 minutes ago, riverheightsnancy said:

I wish that the producers were more transparent regarding med checks and the stats so claims of producer interference can't be made. 

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more. 

[seasick]

On 2/13/2017 at 2:27 AM, Joan Z said:

Callie can see smoke in the distance but she didn't know there were 4 left until after she tap out. 

It's pretty dark out there so no one is going to convince me that they were not able to see the glow of the fires from the other contestants.  She might not have known exactly--or felt it best to keep that info to herself (because the show premise IS that they have NO Idea how many others are left)   But their placements this time gave much away to the other contestants.  

[Braveshoppr]

6 hours ago, zamberlan said:

The more I consider all this the more I'm struggling with the ethics of a show like this. The very real health risks of starvation, the long term implications for fertility, the disruption of the natural territory of wild animals, not to mention the hardships on those left behind. If my partner was out there I know I wouldn't sleep well or even be able to enjoy food at home. For those with children that's a long time to hold down the fort...

I've never watched reality shows because of the "freak show" carnival aspect. This one seemed to have normal people facing something I have fantasies about, what I would do if I had to make it alone in the wild, so I made an exception. However, there must be a better way for me to learn about all those awesome skills those people have without having them put their health at risk.

Agree with you entirely but I think this was the first season where the act of starving was given star billing from the producer media feeds. We knew that the last few contestants were hungry on the prior year's shows, but not to the extent like this season. 

I was so turned off by the last show (episode) for more than one reason, that next year, if there is a next year, I probably won't watch it unless people on the boards are raving about it. I went for the fresh air, lol, videos of the water, hearing the wind in the rustling pines, etc. seeing outback up close, and possibly seeing their housing. Pretty mundane stuff if one compares killing animals, fits from the contestants and watching them slowly starve. 

At some point I considered that the show's producers wanted to give (or were made to give) a young up-start his chance to do an entire episode, hence the remarkable difference in the feel and texture of the last episode vs the earlier productions. 

[Liberty]

When the season began, we did not know it would end with several of the contestants facing starvation.  The producers finally showed us BMI was decreased seriously, but never let us know about the recovery process that even Callie and Dave went through, let alone Carleigh and Fowler.  Now that I know what they went through, I realize I do not need to see it happen again with a different cast.  Instead of discussing how the 10 selected items might or might not help a cast member, how one's background might help an asset, it will be 'looks like so-and-so' has a good fat reserve.

Those who quit early may demonstrated a more sensible level of participation.   There does need to be a better way to determine a winner.  It's difficult to get excited about wondering which cast member(s) can best endure starvation .  I watched Dave whither away, but somehow was not critical enough of my viewing to realize it would  the amount of starvation a cast member could endure that would determine the winner.

[cooksdelight]

They were all at least 4 miles from each other. To see smoke, or fire glow, would depend on weather situations.

[seasick]

2 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

They were all at least 4 miles from each other. To see smoke, or fire glow, would depend on weather situations.

Well apparently the weather was such that she admitted seeing smoke from other fires-- so a fire glow on a dark clear night would not be a stretch by any means.  

[Subrookie]

Seems like they would have tried to avoid that, especially since was it Justin(?) in S2 that climbed a mountain near his camp? It looked like he could see for 10-15 miles from there.  If everyone is on the same lake in S2 they had to know people would be able to see signs of other nearby contestants. I suppose limiting them to a small area would keep them from running into each other but also,  as others have said,  would make it more difficult to survive. 

[Joan Z]

On 2/13/2017 at 8:05 PM, rmontro said:

I wonder what contestants thought when they were "tapping in" to their families only to find themselves stuck in the Loser Lodge on a restricted diet?

By the way, thanks for typing that all out, Joan, no way would I have had the patience to watch that whole video.

Not exactly loser lodge since I'm sure Fowler stayed there too. 

On 2/14/2017 at 5:47 AM, Liberty said:

If this is true, it would seem that past a certain point killing and eating a wild pig, or other game, may not be beneficial after a certain point. 

On 2/14/2017 at 10:57 AM, Canada said:

Their diet would also need to be carefully watched due to a severe risk of electrolyte imbalance once they started eating again.  If they aren't watched closely, with many blood tests, for the first few days once they start eating again, they could get severely ill from a large change in their electrolyte levels which can happen when a person starts eating again even after a short period with no/little food.

Good points. If red meat isn't part of the refeeding diet, I wonder what would happen if they caught big game like boar after 2+ months of starvation. If normal diet is dangerous at that point, does the crew monitor what the contestants are eating and how do they monitor it? Do they ask the contestants during med check what they've been eating or what they caught/trapped? 

[Joan Z]

16 hours ago, seasick said:

It's pretty dark out there so no one is going to convince me that they were not able to see the glow of the fires from the other contestants.  She might not have known exactly--or felt it best to keep that info to herself (because the show premise IS that they have NO Idea how many others are left)   But their placements this time gave much away to the other contestants.  

I left out "on clear day" in previous post - Callie said she can see tiny trail of smoke in the distance on clear day. 

11 hours ago, Subrookie said:

Seems like they would have tried to avoid that, especially since was it Justin(?) in S2 that climbed a mountain near his camp? It looked like he could see for 10-15 miles from there.  If everyone is on the same lake in S2 they had to know people would be able to see signs of other nearby contestants. I suppose limiting them to a small area would keep them from running into each other but also,  as others have said,  would make it more difficult to survive. 

The terrain of VI and Patagonia is different. I believe contestants from past seasons were placed much farther apart from each other and they were separated by mountains and body of water. 

[Ina123]

1 hour ago, Joan Z said:

I left out "on clear day" in previous post - Callie said she can see tiny trail of smoke in the distance on clear day. 

The terrain of VI and Patagonia is different. I believe contestants from past seasons were placed much farther apart from each other and they were separated by mountains and body of water. 

Yes. If you look at the map on the website of where they all were you'd see how close they were to each other. This season was very different in that way. A couple were directly across the lake from each other.

[seasick]

When they were on VI they were all strung out along the same coast, in recessed cove areas.  They would actually give us an overhead view with a 'mock up' of where they had placed the contestants.  

IIRC on the map that someone posted about the Patagonia placements, they were placed around 2 lakes--yes--across from each other.  And this season they never gave us the overhead view of where the contestants were placed.  

[Joan Z]

3 hours ago, Ina123 said:

Yes. If you look at the map on the website of where they all were you'd see how close they were to each other. This season was very different in that way. A couple were directly across the lake from each other.

Is it the map on BCUSA you're talking about? If yes, then Callie said its incorrect. 

[seasick]

5 minutes ago, Joan Z said:

Is it the map on BCUSA you're talking about? If yes, then Callie said its incorrect. 

It would be good then if the show revealed the true mapping of where they were placed.  Strange that they did not do that this season as they have in seasons past.    But I believe it is  agreed that they were placed around lakes-- and given a matter of yards--not miles -- in which they could stray along their coast--indicating that they were pretty close to each other.     

[Liberty]

3 minutes ago, seasick said:

It would be good then if the show revealed the true mapping of where they were placed.

This is just one thing the show does not reveal or want to reveal.  It is (and it breaks this fan's heart) reality TV, not reality.

On an unrelated note, the pictures of the Mountains they showed regularly were gorgeous, strangely none of the cast even approached the mountains.  Gorgeous photography of gorgeous geography. 

[Subrookie]

6 hours ago, Joan Z said:

I left out "on clear day" in previous post - Callie said she can see tiny trail of smoke in the distance on clear day. 

The terrain of VI and Patagonia is different. I believe contestants from past seasons were placed much farther apart from each other and they were separated by mountains and body of water. 

I've hiked a lot on VI and SE Alaska. If the air was still campfire smoke would be visible from a long way away if you were on a mountain top. It's not like those folks were 20-30 miles apart. 

[Subrookie]

Can someone who knows where it is post a link to the bushcraft forum post with a map of where the contestants were located?  I saw it mentioned up thread somewhere, but I'm not going to search through 37 forum pages on another site to find it. 

Having spent several years in northern Canada as a canoe guide I couldn't think of a better place to have a S4 or S5 than N.  Manitoba or Ontario. It would be very easy to keep everyone separated and have a fishing lodge for the crew as a base. I went months without seeing anyone else other than my clients when I did that. Even in relatively well traveled areas there were lakes a few miles off the beaten path no one ever went to. 

[holly4755]

once again about the starving, I don't think it was an issue until this year and I have to wonder if being on a fresh water lake had anything to do with it.  

I know Sam lost a lot of weight, but most other people left season one for reasons other than just starving. Nichole certainly wasn't starving last year I think she lost like `10 pounds and she said she had food stored when she tapped out. And David the second year winner said he lost about 40 pounds and then his weight stabilized at 150 (or so, I don't remember the exact number)and stayed there for a month. Of course he had fish and crabs and seaweed almost every day in the end while Larry was starving living on mouse, seaweed and grubs.

 

I am wondering whether the salt content of their diet helped.  I am thinking that when they send them to fresh water, they might give them some salt to add to the food. Dave took salt this year, but his mind obsessed on not eating and he really did not need to lose that much weight, he did that to himself. 

[zamberlan]

It makes me feel extraordinarily blessed to think I have never once had to worry about too few calories, micro-nutrients, salt, vitamins or anything like that really. Where I live there is an abundance of healthy food and I know how lucky I am.

What I would have given my eye teeth for though was to have been a canoe guide in Northern Canada. That must rate up there with the worlds best jobs! I wonder what the upper age limit is for a job like that?   

How be some of the contestants lead some "Alone Together " canoe trips where people pay to learn some of their skills and get some of the inside scoop?

[Scaeva]

6 hours ago, holly4755 said:

once again about the starving, I don't think it was an issue until this year and I have to wonder if being on a fresh water lake had anything to do with it.  

I think the primary reason why starvation was a bigger factor this season was it's length. This group went three months, while the groups from the last two seasons went two. 

Had the first or second seasons lasted as long it's likely starvation would be just as big a factor as well. Sam from Season 1 (the runner-up) was in the process of withering away when he tapped, and had been subsisting on mice and their 100 or so calories for a long while. He had a moment on camera where he seemed to zone out as well, not unlike Dave from this season. Dave was thinner to start however and lasted longer than Sam (73 days to Sam's 55), so he looked worse when he finally tapped. Larry, the runner up for Season 2, was also struggling for food when he tapped. Both winners from the previous two seasons also lost a lot of weight. Alan lost 60 lbs.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Scaeva

[Braveshoppr]

14 hours ago, zamberlan said:

It makes me feel extraordinarily blessed to think I have never once had to worry about too few calories, micro-nutrients, salt, vitamins or anything like that really. Where I live there is an abundance of healthy food and I know how lucky I am.

What I would have given my eye teeth for though was to have been a canoe guide in Northern Canada. That must rate up there with the worlds best jobs! I wonder what the upper age limit is for a job like that?   

How be some of the contestants lead some "Alone Together " canoe trips where people pay to learn some of their skills and get some of the inside scoop?

Wear VERY warm clothes, lol! And don't forget something for no-see-ums!

[Joan Z]

On 2/16/2017 at 0:08 PM, Subrookie said:

Can someone who knows where it is post a link to the bushcraft forum post with a map of where the contestants were located?  I saw it mentioned up thread somewhere, but I'm not going to search through 37 forum pages on another site to find it. 

Here it is http://www.pbase.com/jimthode/image/164740596/original

Callie posted this in response to a post about the map. So I guess some parts of the map are correct 

Quote

just wanted to pop on and say that the map you keep referencing is incorrect unfortunately.
I won't say how or where it is incorrect but it is....the plot thickens!

On 2/16/2017 at 4:26 PM, holly4755 said:

I am wondering whether the salt content of their diet helped.  I am thinking that when they send them to fresh water, they might give them some salt to add to the food. Dave took salt this year, but his mind obsessed on not eating and he really did not need to lose that much weight, he did that to himself. 

Isn't salt is part of emergency ration? It's not included in the 10 items and every contestants have it. 

Edited February 17, 2017 by Joan Z

[Juliegirlj]

Wow-that map is truly interesting!! The final four were all in the same area. Not sure about the scale but some of them appear very close to each other. 

[Juliegirlj]

As uncomfortable as watching someone starve is on a tv series, it is a legitimate concern when living alone off the grid. Viewers complain about the show being manipulated yet, cannot stomach watching a contestant deal with restricted calories. 

The fact is, not everyone's metabolism is able to tolerate a very low calorie diet. In a true survival situation it would be a matter of life or death.