S02.E11: Josh Is the Man of My Dreams, Right?

[txhorns79]

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While I enjoy Mrs. Hernandez's hostility toward Rebecca, to me it seems unearned - we didn't see much of Mrs. Hernandez in the back half of season 1 and really haven't seen that much of her here in Season 2, except to be mean to Rebecca.

I feel like they kind of earned it a bit by at least suggesting that Mrs. Hernandez's silence was mostly Rebecca's vision of how she acted, rather than how she actually acted.  Though I don't know if she's being mean to Rebecca so much as just not putting up with Rebecca's crap.   

[Snarklepuss]

Did anyone else besides me see significance in Nathaniel's admission of pretty much buying the law firm to snag Rebecca being a lot like Rebecca moving to West Covina to snag Josh?

I have to admit that for me Nathaniel is a guilty pleasure.  He's everything I want to hate but can't somehow, damn you show writers!  He's everything I don't want Rebecca to be attracted to, certainly because he's a "bad boy" and a repulsive one as opposed to Greg's more rebel/sensitive soul bad boy.  And yet perhaps perversely, just because Nathaniel is at the same time as repulsive as he is attractive there's that attraction/revulsion thing going on.  And I think the show is playing with that too.  And playing with my head for wanting to hate the clichéd plot of him with Rebecca because it replaced a former and arguably better clichéd plot of Rebecca with Greg.  And yet I can't resist it, just like Rebecca can't either.  It's not the first time the show has done the same with Rebecca as it has with me!

When the show put him in the elevator with Rebecca it was just such a contrived fantasy but I admit it, they got me with it.  OK, show, take me there, and damn you for making me a hypocrite!

I thought the Harry Potter stuff was spot-on given that Mr. Snarkle is also a lawyer that you would never think would be into that stuff and yet he has read every book.  I've been trying to figure that out for ages as I have pretty much no interest in it myself, LOL.

I knew Paula would get back with her husband, it just happened a little too fast for me.  And I missed Heather, Valencia and White Josh in this episode too.  I don't believe Rebecca will marry Josh in 2 weeks.  This show has faked us out before and somehow I'm not buying that one.  Darryl continues to be hysterically pathetic, which I love, though.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Snarklepuss

[theatremouse]

On 1/20/2017 at 8:26 PM, allonsyalice said:

I thought of Welcome to Baltimore from Hairspray.

 

On 1/21/2017 at 10:16 AM, dubbel zout said:

I loved the Devil Wind singer. I thought he was fantastic, Autotuned or not. (And my first thought after hearing him was, I wonder if he did a stint in Jersey Boys. Hee.)

Eric Michael Roy was the wind singer, and he was in Jersey Boys on Broadway. Besides the sound of the wind-song, his outfit was the giveaway for me that they were aiming to riff on Jersey Boys, although of course there are other songs that have a similar vibe. I somehow ended up with Sherry stuck in my head after watching this.

I am the only person I know who can't stand Jersey Boys, but I did think the wind character/construct/song was hilarious. Also because as a transplant, I never heard of Santa Ana winds until I moved to southern California, and when the episode first started the bit and mentioned them I thought "but will it land with people not from here?" but then they kept over explaining it, which really worked for me for two reasons:

1) If you're not from here and familiar, it's explained

2) People really do seem to go on about it like that

So the whole thing rang completely true to me. Including Josh's "I can breathe through my nose again". The last three episodes I found myself laughing outloud about 4x as much as usual at this show.

[dubbel zout]

A number of California-based shows over the years have mentioned the Santa Ana winds, so they aren't necessarily unknown to viewers who live outside the area. And even if you didn't know they were a real thing, their context within the show is made really clear, IMO.

[theatremouse]

What I meant was, not only did the show make what they are very clear, but made it clear in a what-seems-at-first-to-be-over-the-top-because-it's-a-musical way, but in reality sounds exactly like how people tend to go on about them, such that it's not actually very exaggerated at all. Sort of like Rebecca's east coast Jews rant in the previous episode. If you haven't lived it, you might think it's exaggerated for comedy, but if you have lived it, it sounds like something you could've easily overheard yesterday. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Is Crazy Ex-Girlfriend About To Face A Crazy Sexual Harassment Lawsuit?

And other questions sparked as the show finds 'love' in an elevator and its quality goes dooooowwwwwwwn.

[Trishelle]

The cliche'd elevator contrivance actually didn't bug me that much (you can't really watch this show without enjoying stupid rom-com tropes at least a little), and neither did the auto tune.

What did bother me was that Nathaniel was so casual about propositioning a direct report out of nowhere. The way they've drawn that character so far is ruthlessly professional and rule-abiding, so it was hard for me to believe he would just commit a serious HR indiscretion like that so lightly. There should've been at least a couple episodes with him frantically trying to exercise out his Becks-boner on the treadmill or something like that. I can't just suddenly accept that he's a rakish bad boy instead of an uptight daddy's boy.

I sort of liked the Daryl/Paula story line, but the song at the end made me really sad. Your best friend can't just be a super-cool person you admire a whole bunch. Otherwise, my best friends would be Bob the Drag Queen and Joni Mitchell. A best friend is someone who wants to listen to all of your bullshit opinions and dumb anecdotes as much you want to listen to theirs. Daryl deserves that.

I want to carry Santa Anna Winds guy around in my pocket and have him do his stupid doo-wop dance moves whenever I'm bummed out.

[theatremouse]

I think part of the point the song was going for is Daryl has very few, if any other friends. So his considering Paula a close friend at all, puts her at the top for him. It doesn't mean she's great or what a best friend ought to be, but that his other friends are worse. Which is sad, but believable.

[niklj]

On 1/21/2017 at 2:57 PM, possibilities said:

When Paula told Darryl he was her best male friend, I thought: I wonder if she ditched Sunil completely? Rebecca has pretty much ditched Heather and Valencia since she and Paula reconciled.

Oh snap! Where has Sunil been???

[Bruinsfan]

Hopefully swallowed by oblivion like Chuck Cunningham and Judy Winslow.

[kieyra]

22 hours ago, Trishelle said:

The cliche'd elevator contrivance actually didn't bug me that much (you can't really watch this show without enjoying stupid rom-com tropes at least a little), and neither did the auto tune.

What did bother me was that Nathaniel was so casual about propositioning a direct report out of nowhere. The way they've drawn that character so far is ruthlessly professional and rule-abiding, so it was hard for me to believe he would just commit a serious HR indiscretion like that so lightly. There should've been at least a couple episodes with him frantically trying to exercise out his Becks-boner on the treadmill or something like that. I can't just suddenly accept that he's a rakish bad boy instead of an uptight daddy's boy.

I sort of liked the Daryl/Paula story line, but the song at the end made me really sad. Your best friend can't just be a super-cool person you admire a whole bunch. Otherwise, my best friends would be Bob the Drag Queen and Joni Mitchell. A best friend is someone who wants to listen to all of your bullshit opinions and dumb anecdotes as much you want to listen to theirs. Daryl deserves that.

I want to carry Santa Anna Winds guy around in my pocket and have him do his stupid doo-wop dance moves whenever I'm bummed out.

I'm still leaning the nuances of some of this stuff (better late than never), but I thought his proposition to her was one of expediency, equal to equal: like, "we have this irritating attraction to each other, let's just get it over with and maybe we can both stop thinking about it". It was fairly ... mechanical, as his song described. I know he's technically her boss, but I don't "feel" the power imbalance in their relationship, maybe because I watched Rebecca nearly murder him with a pen. I don't see any consequences for her turning him down.

Obviously I reserve the right to change my mind if he starts hassling/begging/being a creep/executing reprisals. 

[SomeTameGazelle]

On 1/21/2017 at 1:16 PM, dubbel zout said:

 

I loved the Devil Wind singer. I thought he was fantastic, Autotuned or not.

 

I enjoyed the song a lot myself. (Something about it makes me slip into humming Too Bad by Doug and the Slugs.) And regarding the alleged autotune, I didn't notice anything and am calling myself skeptical until someone can explain to me where and how to detect it. 

[txhorns79]

 

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What did bother me was that Nathaniel was so casual about propositioning a direct report out of nowhere. The way they've drawn that character so far is ruthlessly professional and rule-abiding, so it was hard for me to believe he would just commit a serious HR indiscretion like that so lightly. There should've been at least a couple episodes with him frantically trying to exercise out his Becks-boner on the treadmill or something like that. I can't just suddenly accept that he's a rakish bad boy instead of an uptight daddy's boy.

I don't know if they have shown him to be ruthlessly professional or rule abiding.  If anything he's treated his underlings fairly poorly since he was introduced.  I do agree that it felt very random that he suddenly was really into Rebecca.  

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I didn't notice anything and am calling myself skeptical until someone can explain to me where and how to detect it. 

Here is a quora listing about how to tell whether a voice has been autotuned. 

[dubbel zout]

6 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I do agree that it felt very random that he suddenly was really into Rebecca.  

I don't think Nathaniel is really into Rebecca: In their shared dream he calls her "person I work with." He recognizes they have some sexual chemistry and decides to act on it. 

[txhorns79]

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He recognizes they have some sexual chemistry and decides to act on it. 

That's probably true.  He insults her a number of times in his song, so it does seem to be about something other than loving feelings. 

[SomeTameGazelle]

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Here is a quora listing about how to tell whether a voice has been autotuned. 

I should have been more clear. I didn't want a general tutorial; I wanted a specific critique of the Santa Ana Winds number, with particular attention to the evidence that the processing was in order to correct the singer's flawed pitch, since that seemed to be the point of picking on autotune.

[kathe5133]

That quora listing was informative.  But for me detecting auto tune is instinctive.  I sing.  Not like Whitney, but I've had some vocal training.  With singing there is a placement of notes.  Sort of how you breathe from your gut and manipulate the sound in your face to get the right tone.  When something is auto tuned I can tell cause there's no human way someone can make that sound.  The Patrick song for example.  I think some of the higher notes were manipulated.  Rachel Bloom has a lovely voice, but not even Barbra or Whitney could hit those notes without the right breaths the way they are hit in this song.  There is an effortlessness that no human possesses.   I dont understand why Crazy Ex Girlfriend uses it, especially since these performers are so very talented and don't need it.  But, it seems to be a trend.  I don't like it, it seems like cheating.

[Rinaldo]

They have on occasion been blatantly obvious with autotune, with the idea of spoofing a certain processed pop sound and we're expected to hear it as such, as in "A Boyband Made Up of Four Joshes" or "Duh!" But other examples -- I'm with @SomeTameGazelle in waiting for some concrete evidence before I believe that it's being used routinely. None of the vocalism I've heard (and though I'm not a trained singer myself, I do evaluate and listen critically to singing as part of my job) sounds inherently impossible or fake, except (as above) when that's part of the comedic point.

I mean, maybe they do occasionally help out a note as a last resort, just as they have to accept faulty lip-syncing sometimes, just because they're putting together an hourlong musical every week and time is short, where a film musical would take many months to produce; but unless/until that's established, I'll figure that all these experienced stage performers can do what they're doing.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Rinaldo

[waving feather]

On 1/23/2017 at 11:57 PM, dubbel zout said:

I bought the song on iTunes, which is a first for me. (Buying a song from the show, not using iTunes; heh.) It's the only way I can get it out of my head!

I finally caved in to buy it on iTunes as well; the very first for this show. It is also currently the most popular song from the Crazy Ex-girlfriend cast. 

At the same, since I was at it, I bought "The Math of Love Triangle". I guess I just really like their campy throwback numbers.

[UMAngela]

On January 21, 2017 at 5:57 PM, possibilities said:

I also find the no one knows George's name joke totally unfunny.

It's like Jerry/Larry/Garry on Parks & Rec.  That joke grew old for me.

[KaleyFirefly]

On 1/22/2017 at 5:25 PM, shang yiet said:

Island for two, please. Judging from the comments on the youtube clip of Let's Have Intercourse, I'm not the only one who loves Nathaniel on the show. I think he does have genuine feelings for Rebecca but hides it under a layer of douchbaggery.  I find Nathaniel a refreshing change from the lineup of nice but somewhat needy wishy washy men on the show from Josh to Greg to Daryl to Scott.

I like Nathaniel too. He's hot and looked very cute in the Ed Sheeran parody video.

[DianeDobbler]

I think Nathanial is going to be fairly needy himself, what with that Dad. He's a mess under there. I am also considering that he's a high powered guy who, no matter how he came across, was sent to fucking WEST COVINA by his dad. The other Whitefeather-ites haven't processed that piece of it. Here son, manage a strip mall law firm, and don't screw it up. I think he psyched himself up to get the big client, but his dad withheld it, so now he has to maintain the front at what has to feel like a fifth-rate environment to him.

Rebecca is hot and has so much passion and energy, I think a lot of guys are going to want to have sex with her, if not have a relationship with her. I was very dubious at SMH and Nathanial initially. I felt very been there, done that with the type, and like many viewers I am sure I accurately predicted every step of his introduction. But, I realized I liked the actor, and how he hit his character's beats. I agree with Aline Brosh McKenna's flattering assessment of the qualities he brings to the show. Part of my welcoming attitude is that in my binge watching, I find I really, really hate Greg, and if I'd watched in real time I don't know if I could have stuck out the Greg heavy parts of S1. Every time he showed up - oh God, is that him STILL at her house after the damn party is over? Oh, seriously Greg, you are hanging out outside her house after she ditched your date and hooked up with someone else? And nauseated when he materialized at the end of the wrong text episode.  There was something about that character that personified, to me, the notorious "nice guy", even though Greg didn't embody all of it. But there was a "if you were healthy and doing the right thing, you would be with me" vibe that turned me off so bad. There was what he said, and there was his being so fucking AROUND like barnacle or stalker (even when subsequent plot points moved him away from her or moved away from that phase.). He just hit a nerve with me that I think prior characters on prior shows have hit - the wrong nerve. OTOH, I really do like Josh (that did take awhile), and when he and Rebecca are clicking, there is something so joyous and unselfconscious about them together, something I don't think she's able to get with anyone else. But, I am not resisting Nathanial. SMH has real charisma and is a good fit with the show, and his song ("Let's have intercourse") was really funny. He knows how to be sincere while also enabling the rhythm of a sitcom. So, I'm relieved, because at first my reaction was "Oh THIS guy. The guy they'll force a connection with, the guy they'll OT sexual tension with because they need it for the plot. The guy who will push while she resists, but is her resistance genuine?  And we're supposed to see she's in denial, but the fact is, her resistance seems totally believable and legit to me!"

I've seen that third wheel trope a bunch, and I was really happy to discover I enjoyed SMH and Nathanial in his own right.

Edited February 16, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[dubbel zout]

34 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

there was a "if you were healthy and doing the right thing, you would be with me" vibe

I think that was true during the first few episodes of the first season, but then everyone got a fuller picture of Rebecca and Greg's issues, and it was clear they shouldn't be together until they both had done some work. And Greg realized he had to get out of West Covina in order to break some of his unhealthy behavior. I hope Santino can return somewhere along the line. I think Greg and Rebecca's story ended nicely—I don't feel like anything is up in the air—but I want to find out how things worked out for Greg.

[DianeDobbler]

Opinions about Rebecca / Nathaniel aside, Rebecca chased Nathaniel around the conference room with a weaponized pen and attacked him, knocking him to the ground and pinning him there. I'm not going to turn around and find Nathaniel propositioning her in the elevator out of character for this show. Everything in that office is in appropriate; we can't cherry pick.

To add re Greg, I just didn't like the actor playing Greg. He was cast correctly - modestly handsome, demeanor, what he projected, all fit the description of Greg. But in addition to not liking the type as he was deployed in this show, I didn't care for the actor in the context of this show. He seemed uninvested and with little imagination. By that is when he was given strong material he never revealed more about Greg than what was on the page. He delivered what was on the page - he has decent technique / is a pro, but that's it. For example, I think of how much more could have been done with the sung line "I fly a plane, a plane" in the drinking song other than the incongruity and sort of obvious choice to smile in the face of comic horror.

Edited March 1, 2017 by DianeDobbler

[LadyAmalthea]

I think I'm in the minority who find Nathaniel utterly unappealing - I enjoy him as an antagonist with daddy issues but blah as a potential love interest.  

Maybe it's just his (wrong) opinions about Ravenclaw.  

[aradia22]

I am so easy. I completely fell for the Rebecca/Nathaniel thing. It was lovely back in season 1 when Josh was sweet and made her feel like glitter was exploding inside of her but give me two characters who dislike each other getting over their differences and my rom-com trained heart starts fluttering. 

Also, I could not have loved the Santa Ana devil winds more. Brilliant choice to go with Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons music. 

[aradia22]

Oh, I almost forgot. I loved that they chose an Ed Sheeran song to parody with Nathaniel's "seduction" because if you actually listen to the lyrics, his songs can be very side-eye worthy. Especially the ones he's written for other people like Bieber and One Direction. Also, I liked it even better than Settle For Me. They were surprisingly great dancers. I kept expecting to see them swap out body doubles but I'm pretty sure it was the two of them the whole time. He managed those lifts like it was nothing and I thought Rachel was pretty graceful. 

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My assumption is that wasn't the first person she called.  

Ahaha. That makes it even funnier. 

Also, you'd think I'd be a Ravenclaw, but nope. Proud Slytherin. 

Shallow (?) note, I've realized I don't get much out of it when Josh and Rebecca kiss. But Nathaniel and Rebecca worked for me. That may just be more professional actors and less characters have chemistry but either way, I thought it looked good. It might have also been the direction/the way the scene was shot. 

[MargeGunderson]

@aradia22, I loved the Santa Ana winds too, which may put us in the minority here. That song and Let's Have Intercourse pushed me to buy the album. I'm also an out-and-proud Slytherin, so I suppose my taste is suspect anyway. 

[bijoux]

I'm doing a rewatch after the series finale and I was surprised how much I enjoyed the love triangle stuff this time around. Maybe it's because now I know how it ends, but it's utterly hilarious. The sex dream had me in stitches. Oh, Nathaniel. - Oh, girl who works for me. And the creamer, good Lord, the creamer. 

Who knows, maybe when things settle for me, I'll even enjoy some things in season 4 I didn't the first time around.