S03.E04: Episode 4

[Duke2801]

6 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I first saw Ruth Wilson in the BBC's Jane Eyre ten years ago, and her mouth was the same then as it is now. Unless she started with the fillers very early in her career - which is not very common among "serious" young British actresses - I think that's her natural mouth.

Yes if anything Ruth's upper lip is really, really small compared to her bottom lip.  I think fillers would have made it larger. 

[Guest]

I'll defer to you guys since I was familiar with neither actresses' work (and former facial structures) until this show. Maybe it's in the writers' long-range plan to reveal that Noah has a thing for ladies with swollen, oversized upper lips - a plot development that I would both welcome and mock. 

[DarkRaichu]

8 hours ago, Isazouzi said:

Yep and Maura Tierney has the exact same mouth since her ER days (the first show I've seen her on).

IIRC it was like that back when she was in Newsradio (one of best off-beat sitcoms ever, IMHO)

[NutMeg]

On 12/15/2016 at 3:30 PM, chocolatine said:

I first saw Ruth Wilson in the BBC's Jane Eyre ten years ago, and her mouth was the same then as it is now. Unless she started with the fillers very early in her career - which is not very common among "serious" young British actresses - I think that's her natural mouth.

Don't think Ruth Wilson did anything to her lips - her mouth looks like a fish mouth to me, wide and thin. I'm sorry, I don't usually comment on physical appearance but in this case her being attractive to all males around here run a dissonant with that mouth of her. In other words, if I ever become bi, she would not attract me at all. But yeah YMMV, etc.

[Isazouzi]

3 hours ago, NutMeg said:

Don't think Ruth Wilson did anything to her lips - her mouth looks like a fish mouth to me, wide and thin. I'm sorry, I don't usually comment on physical appearance but in this case her being attractive to all males around here run a dissonant with that mouth of her. In other words, if I ever become bi, she would not attract me at all. But yeah YMMV, etc.

I agree. I think she's very pretty, and it actually took me several episodes to notice her mouth, but now that I have, I can't unsee it. It's unfortunate.

[beeziebee]

On 12/14/2016 at 3:02 PM, Duke2801 said:

It's funny, the first time I was introduced to Ruth Wilson is on Luther, and I could NOT stop thinking how ugly her lips/mouth her.  Mr. Duke nicknamed her FishMouth. Yet, on this show, I don't even notice her mouth all that much.  And I actually think she's quite lovely. 

Never noticed Helen having a weird mouth, though.  I will have to look again.

I think both actors have an unusually long distance between their noses and upper lips.  No one's perfect, but it is damned distracting, on Ruth Wilson especially.

[jrlr]

3 minutes ago, beeziebee said:

I think both actors have an unusually long distance between their noses and upper lips.  No one's perfect, but it is damned distracting, on Ruth Wilson especially.

And also, their top lips are unusually wide in proportion to their lower lips.  It doesn't bother me at all - I've always thought Tierney was striking looking and an underrated actress.  I think Wilson is phenomenally talented, and can look gorgeous or plain depending on the look of the role and her own interpretation of it.  Even though Idris Elba is a dreamboat, it was Wilson who really pulled me into Luther.  

[Milburn Stone]

I've never seen Luther, but she "appears"--voice only--in the movie Locke with Tom Hardy, and she's terrific, compelling. A fine actress.

[DarkRaichu]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I've never seen Luther, but she "appears"--voice only--in the movie Locke with Tom Hardy, and she's terrific, compelling. A fine actress.

I like her in Luther as she provided nice balance to the main character.  However, that TV series was too depressing for my taste and I quit watching in the middle of season 2 :P  

[ruby24]

Is one of the themes of this show that nothing is ever really over between anyone? How many times do we have to watch Alison and Cole have sex AGAIN after being split up? And Helen refuses to let Noah go on the other side too.

I guess my own experience with people who are divorced is just so different. My parents fucking HATED each other when they got divorced and never, for one second even thought about getting back together. My cousin was the same thing. Basically every family member and friend I know who got divorced, that meant it was OVER between those two people romantically, whether there were kids involved or not. There might have been waffling or second thoughts when it was just a separation or fighting, but by the time the divorce papers were signed, the relationship was finished for sure.

I like Joshua Jackson, but I think he's the only thing that makes Cole remotely likable. I've always thought he was incredibly abusive and mean.

Edited December 17, 2016 by ruby24

[truthaboutluv]

I am always baffled by these abusive and mean claims against Cole and feel like I may have watched a separate show. In the first season, everything we see of Cole is from either Noah's or Alison's POV but putting that aside, Cole was fairly invisible for much of the first half of the season. There was a scene of him and Alison having rough sex that many Noah apologists loved to bring up after that creepy sex scene of her and Noah against the tree. But contrary to Noah thinking Cole was being violent with Alison, Alison's POV made it clear that she consented and was a willing participant (in fact urged Cole on) in an act between her and her husband. 

And then we barely saw much from Cole. He walked in on Alison getting dressed after she clearly lied about staying home, he knew she lied and he just quietly walked out of the room and didn't say a word to her. He finds out she cheats on him and takes her back after she runs off to the City to chase the married man she cheated on him with. She decides she wants to leave Montauk and again, despite her cheating, he chases her to the train station, wanting to come with her. When they thought Oscar ratted them out about the drug selling, Cole made sure to tell Alison stay so she would be nowhere near the situation if he was caught. 

He was nothing but kind to Martin even when the kid inexplicably let one of their prize horses go. He took the time to kindly tell Noah that he might want to talk to Martin because something was clearly going on, to which Noah rudely told him that he'd accept his advice when he had a son. Yes, said that to the guy who lost his child while he was fucking the man's wife. And when Alison came back from her retreat place and basically told him it was over, she was cruel and cutting in that conversation, going as far as to say she didn't want to look at his face anymore and didn't want him at all and then of course blamed him for Gabriel's death. It's when she hit below that belt that Cole snapped back at her. 

And then there was the infamous season finale where Cole either pulled a gun on Noah to get him off Scotty or wanted to kill Noah and then himself. And then Alison remembered him being threatening to her when he brought her things back but apparently not too threatening that she had no problem letting him hang around to fix their toilet. And then of course had no problems later sleeping with him. And then denied him his child for two years. So pray tell but how has Cole been abusive and mean?  To who - Noah the asshole he has every reason to dislike and Alison who despite all the crap she's done to him he's still in love with?

The only person I think Cole was mean and asshole to is Luisa at the start of their relationship when he was still a drinking, coke snorting, grieving mess, which is why she eventually yelled at him to get his shit together. And we've all agreed that his cheating on her with fucked up Alison is inexcusable. But those factors aside,  I have never seen this mean and abusive Cole that many have been declaring since the first season.

Edited December 17, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[tvviewer]

I believe Sarah Treem said she'd deliberately cast Maura and Joshua because they are so likeable and it would make people feel more conflicted over the affair. Surely the whole point is that no one is good or bad in this series, they're all just human, complex and fallible.

[Milburn Stone]

11 hours ago, ruby24 said:

Is one of the themes of this show that nothing is ever really over between anyone? How many times do we have to watch Alison and Cole have sex AGAIN after being split up? And Helen refuses to let Noah go on the other side too.

I guess my own experience with people who are divorced is just so different.

I think this is one of those (so many) things in which TV is different from life. If the world were like it is on TV, everybody would be a blackmailer or be getting blackmailed by one. Everybody would have a gun in their desk drawer. Everybody would be having Olympian sex all the time. Except for that last one, it's not like my life. (Just kidding.)

[Nanrad]

Honestly, I don't take Noah or Alison's POV about Cole seriously. They over exaggerate or fabricate his behavior to condone their own behavior. This has nothing to do with liking Cole because I'm indifferent to him, but Cole suffers from what Helen suffers from in their ex spouses POV-their vilified for being there BEFORE they met the other person. Helen comes off as a controlling bitch in Noah's POV--I was actually annoyed/disliked her, and then remembered it was Noah's POV who was I viewing this from--I LIKE Helen. I think Helen may be a bit pretentious and assertive, but i doubt that's how she really behaves. Alison is always the victim, so of course, Cole doesn't get that great of representation for behavior.

[NutMeg]

On 12/17/2016 at 11:03 AM, ruby24 said:

Is one of the themes of this show that nothing is ever really over between anyone? How many times do we have to watch Alison and Cole have sex AGAIN after being split up? And Helen refuses to let Noah go on the other side too.

I guess my own experience with people who are divorced is just so different. My parents fucking HATED each other when they got divorced and never, for one second even thought about getting back together. My cousin was the same thing. Basically every family member and friend I know who got divorced, that meant it was OVER between those two people romantically, whether there were kids involved or not. There might have been waffling or second thoughts when it was just a separation or fighting, but by the time the divorce papers were signed, the relationship was finished for sure.

I like Joshua Jackson, but I think he's the only thing that makes Cole remotely likable. I've always thought he was incredibly abusive and mean.

I know, right! I suppose it's because they want to keep the actors and they unfortunately don't think of other ways to keep them AND amp the drama than this convoluted thing. I understand the need to keep Alison in Cole in contact because STORY, but I just wished the writers had found a less cliché way to do so.

[shelley1234]

I had the same reaction as DAMN COLE!  

However, I can get it on some level.  There are some people that you move on from and there are some who you love so deeply that the love is always there.  It doesn't mean it's okay to fuck your ex-wife and be a jerk bag cheater to your current wife, but I understand that since she came back Alison has been swimming around in his head for quite a while now.  

Is Alison as deeply in love with Cole?  Maybe, but I doubt it.  

[MamaMax]

On 12/12/2016 at 5:01 PM, Lemons said:

There is no way a drastic change in looks would happen from being a baby to preschool age.  I wonder why they did that.  I can't believe there's a shortage of blue eyed kids in Hollywood.

I love the different clothing choices with the different perceptions.   With Cole, Luisa was dressed down in Jeans and a top.  With Alison, she's wearing an expensive looking outfit.  Alison always looks dowdy but even worse in Cole's version. 

Most of the Montauk scenes are shot on location, so they actually may have cast a local.

On 12/11/2016 at 11:06 PM, racked said:

Allison is the most infuriating character on this show, which is really saying something because she beats out Noah. Her POV paints everyone else, every single person, as out to get her and herself as innocent and taken advantage of. 

But Cole is unfortunately a dumbass. What drives me crazy is no one ever brings up Allison keeping Cole from his daughter for two years. Even Luisa, who was unfairly painted in both these POVs I'm sure. Are we supposed to think everyone is over that?

She's a pretty good approximation of someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and/or Borderline Personality disorder, in my experience. Even her impulsive sexual behavior would be consistent with that kind of diagnosis.

On 12/15/2016 at 9:13 AM, Duke2801 said:

Yes if anything Ruth's upper lip is really, really small compared to her bottom lip.  I think fillers would have made it larger. 

I noticed it more in the first 2 episodes. To me, it was really evident -- they were like duck bills, sticking straight out.

[Jordan Baker]

I'm really late to the party. I'm just now watching episode 4 of season 3, and I'll have to ask for a small table. Maybe not quite a party of one, but I'm definitely not on the Alison-is-an-evil-bitch train.

I don't think anyone on this show is all good or all bad. Noah was pretty creepy in the second season, but he seems (in spite of, or perhaps because of, his prison PTSD) to be returning to a semblance of normality. And Alison? Maybe it's Ruth Wilson's portrayal (I, too, first saw her in "Luther" and was impressed by her talent), but I have enormous sympathy for her.

I have sympathy for all of the main characters--for Helen, who thought her life was nearly perfect and was then disabused of that notion, for Cole, who suffered the worst loss imaginable but who retained a core of decency, for Noah, scarred by his upbringing and living under the shadow of his in-laws' wealth and power, and maybe most of all for Allison. I'll admit that the peanut butter scene was disturbing, and I don't even remember the shampoo scene that was alluded to by another poster, but I just don't see the malevolence in her that others do.

And while I agree that Luisa was given more than she bargained for, I don't like the character. The POV that shows her as suspicious and harsh seems more real to me. Go figure.

I just really, really hope the night of passion doesn't result in another pregnancy. 

[JenE4]

Ironically, for someone with diagnosable paranoia and anxiety about harm becoming a child, I can’t phathom how Alison either would or at least contemplated putting peanuts—the most common and DEADLY childhood allergen—in a birthday cake that would unwittingly be served to children! Law of percentages, at least one if not more kids at this party would have absolutely had a peanut allergy. Oh, well, someone else’s kid might die, but i’ll show that Luisa for taking good care of Joanie! 

[pargett]

The casting of Joanie bugs me.  When Scottie first saw baby Joanie, she had blond hair and big blue eyes, and he immediately suspected that she was Cole's baby.  The girls cast to play Joanie later on look more like they could be Luisa's child--dark hair and brown eyes. Both Cole and Allison have light-colored eyes.