Sweet/Vicious - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[slf]

I've only watched the first episode so I don't have much of an opinion yet. But I love the premise - girls going Hard Candy on rapists - and that the show acknowledges how dangerous it is. Kudos from not shying away from showing PTSD and how common rape is on campuses. It took me a while to warm up to Ophelia since her humor's not mine but I enjoyed her more as the ep went on (I really liked her friendly relationship with the campus security guy), especially when she began interacting with Jules. Like that the girl's don't neatly fit into any stereotypes; Julies is a perky blonde sorority girl with a dark past and badass ninja skills, and Ophelia is an 'edgy' druggie hacker is a bit of a chickenshit with a weak stomach.

I think the "twist" of Jule's potential suitor being the brother of the rapist Ophelia killed is a little lame but Jules' own rapist being her BFF's boyfriend is heartbreaking real. I'll stick with the show for now.

[candall]

My chief hesitation was "MTV."  They briefly suckered me in with Finding Carter, but that show's interesting psychological premise quickly petered out in favor of standard teen heartthrob.  (Ooh, I know the MTV programmers just hate to lose the >50 crowd.)

I like that the blondie sorority super-secret ninja isn't invincible and the tough grrrl isn't totally badass, but I have to say I approved of her just bashing that guy with a hammer.  HOW MANY TIMES have we seen foolish people bleat out an ineffectual "Stop, or I'm calling 911"--right before they get beaten senseless?  And when she barfed, it was foamy pink froth--like gummie bears and beer, so:  consistency!

 

On a serious note, I think sexual assault is generally still a "delicate" subject and still puts a stigma on the victim.  (I don't know why we don't have articles in our faces every day about the hundreds of thousands of unexamined rape kits sitting on shelves all over the country.)  Whether MTV wants to promote a dialogue, or be sensationalist with women who have decided to take agency, or even just wants to cash in on hot topic, good for MTV.  Greyhair in!

 

I liked the second episode as well.  A little slower for some character building, but okay.  I still liked the mix of light and dark.  Uh-oh, though--they're only showing one episode once a week--not a promising vibe.

[jellybean1231]

I just watched the first 3 episodes on demand and I liked it way more than I thought I would! I don't know if it's the way MTV advertised it or what but I don't think the commercials really do the show justice. I second everything that's already been said about the characters and how they're more complex than they seem. I'm in for the season! Hopefully it makes it a full season but if Scream could get 2 I don't see why Sweet/Vicious couldn't squeak out at least 1.

[Cigale]

I'm not quite sure that I like Taylor Dearden (the tough girl).  Isn't she hamming it up a bit?

[Lizzing]

I like this show quite a bit.  Of course, there's the nod to BtVS in the blonde ninja girl and the overall theme, and (possibly intentionally) the cop Jules knows is played by the same actor who was a cop going after Buffy & Faith when they were on the run.  I also lol'd at Ophelia wanting to dispose of the body "Breaking Bad style" with acid in a plastic tub.  That said, Taylor Dearden really reminds me of younger Mary Elizabeth Winstead.

[slf]

Loved a lot of the little humor bits in the most recent ep, the car door lock, Jules hitting Ophelia's car with her bike ("Christ"), Ophelia's "whaaaaaaaaaaaaat" when that frat boy jumped up shouting in the cemetery, etc. 

I really want to know the origins of Jules' combat skills. It'll be quite a while before Ophelia comes even close. But I'm glad to see them bond with each other, despite their differences, and Ophelia's unquestioning support of other women. We don't get that in shows all that often.

But dear God, may I never see that Spitters Are Quitters shirt again, lol.

[Racj82]

Yep, Taylor Dearden is why i'm out on this show. Everything about her and people like her are like stay away spray for me these days. Once they established that her lazy ass and her parking tickets was why the impound was so much I was just like, no thank you. It drive me nuts having to be around someone like that.

[Infie]

Just watched the first episode and I'm glad there are other folks out there who like this show! 

[candall]

Third episode:  I laughed at green-hair girl making her snarky remarks through the voice-changer box when she had the wrong guy pinned down.

Question:  I guess the boyfriend of the curly hair sorority girl--Blondie's bestie--is Blondie's attacker, since she's all freaked out and breathless when he's talking to the bestie.  But does he not recognize Blondie?  He seems awfully chill, talking to his girlfriend with his sexual assault victim lying right next to her.

(Thank goodness they all have different hair.  I'm bad with names.)

 

I only see one more episode on the programming guide.  Uh-oh?  Bummer?  Anyone know?

[paulvdb]

Nate is Kennedy's boyfriend and he also attacked Jules. She put his name on the wall at the end of the second episode.

Wikipedia lists two episodes in December and five in January/February.

Edited December 1, 2016 by paulvdb

[luckyroll3]

On 12/1/2016 at 3:21 AM, paulvdb said:

Wikipedia lists two episodes in December and five in January/February.

I was wondering why there weren't any new episodes the past few weeks.  The first 3 are on MTV's app. 

I really enjoyed this show.  I like that the seriousness of the topic is balanced out with some really, laugh out loud, funny shit.  I couldn't stop laughing when Ophelia puked after killing the guy.  Although, it seemed like a perfectly natural/normal reaction to me, you never see that much realism on TV.  Plus the looks that Jules gives her when she keeps puking and drive heaving...gold.  I also love the law school friend running the record store (and the longing look he gave his discarded peanut butter froyo after being harassed by the cops) and the Jules' BFF/president of the Sorority who is a budding Oprah/Iyanla underneath the ditz. 

Can't wait for the rest of the episodes.

[Valny]

On ‎12‎/‎4‎/‎2016 at 6:46 PM, luckyroll3 said:

I was wondering why there weren't any new episodes the past few weeks.  The first 3 are on MTV's app. ...

 

Can't wait for the rest of the episodes.

I kept checking on Demand and was wondering why there was no more new eps. Thanks also! I pretty binged all three.  The two leads really work well together,so you got me show.

[paulvdb]

That's the downside of MTV releasing the first three episodes before the official premiere. Having to wait three weeks for the next episode. But the wait is almost over. Less than 24 hours to go now.

[Black Knight]

I'm surprised at how much I like this show. I really didn't think it would be possible for a MTV show to balance humor against the topic of sexual assault - I thought such a show would surely either be unfunny, or would trivialize sexual assault, but somehow it doesn't do either. And thankfully the growing friendship of the two leads is solidly executed and acted, as the show wouldn't work without that either.

I was disappointed to realize, in the most recent episode, that Ophelia's learning that Jules's rapist is her best friend's boyfriend got passported by the writers. I'd been waiting for the scene where Ophelia found that out, and thought it would be important for the overall arc, e.g. either being the one to convince Jules to finally tell Kennedy, or telling Kennedy herself in a rage. (She learned the name of Jules's rapist when Jules wrote it on the wall, but she wouldn't have known "Nate Griffin" was Kennedy's boyfriend - she clearly didn't when Jules wrote his name, as she had no reaction to seeing it.)

I enjoyed the intercutting of Kennedy's welcome to the pledges with the other sorority's "welcome."

[candall]

Well, that was very sad that Mom's too Kappa shallow to like her daughter in her green hair version.  (I think the green is perfect.)

The show did a good job breaking up the format of weekly male rapist revenge.

Nitpick:  writing for a law school journal means choosing a specific point of law and spending months writing one highly researched and annotated article, that's published in bound book form and becomes resource material for other lawyers.  It took me awhile to figure out the writers think a law school journal is a newspaper like The Wall Street Journal and that's why the editor keeps assigning local stories for that guy to investigate and report.  heh

I'm glad they're going to squeeze out a few more episodes.  Agree that MTV failed to recognize they'd created a good thing and then proceeded to waste it with lack of promotion.

[Unclejosh]

How many episodes are there?  I like the green as well.

[paulvdb]

Ten episodes total. Episode 5 airs tonight and then it will take a break for Christmas/New Year. The remaining five episodes start airing from January 10.

[AzureOwl]

On 30/11/2016 at 9:09 PM, candall said:

Question:  I guess the boyfriend of the curly hair sorority girl--Blondie's bestie--is Blondie's attacker, since she's all freaked out and breathless when he's talking to the bestie.  But does he not recognize Blondie?  He seems awfully chill, talking to his girlfriend with his sexual assault victim lying right next to her.

He knows exactly who she is and what he did to her. He's just so arrogant and entitled that he either a) thinks that she enjoyed it and so it wasn't rape or b) knows it was rape but she will keep quiet because nobody will believe her. 

It is an all too depressingly realistic fact that sexual assault victims are forced to continue to interact with their rapists as if nothing had happened, especially when they don't report it.  Because in many cases the rapist is someone they know, a family member, someone from their social circle or someone from work.

[paulvdb]

Based on their conversation in episode 5 it is option a. He thinks that he cheated on his girlfriend with her best friend. Or maybe he's just trying to make her believe that that's what he thinks.

[Unclejosh]

Just found out that Ophelia is played by Bryan Cranston's daughter but she uses her middle name (Mom's maiden name) professionally.  Not really relevant to the show but interesting trivia.

[Ms Lark]

On 12/19/2016 at 0:54 PM, Unclejosh said:

Just found out that Ophelia is played by Bryan Cranston's daughter but she uses her middle name (Mom's maiden name) professionally.  Not really relevant to the show but interesting trivia.

Interesting and explains this comment, sort of a little easter egg/shout out:

On 11/28/2016 at 3:55 PM, Lizzing said:

I also lol'd at Ophelia wanting to dispose of the body "Breaking Bad style" with acid in a plastic tub. 

Binged all 5 eps and I'm in. Too bad we have to wait 3 weeks for the next one. I'm enjoying this despite the holes. I think we're supposed to hand wave the whole face mask/lack of recognition thing like Clark Kent/Superman. Which is fine. I guess I like the whole vigilantes take on campus rapists and perpetrate their own brand of justice. I like both the girls and their boyfriends. Too bad they killed Tyler's brother. That makes things a little difficult.

[Cranberry]

Variety: Review: MTV’s ‘Sweet/Vicious’

The AV Club: MTV’s Sweet/Vicious is an excellent antidote to Trump’s win

Slate: The best show no one talked about this year was MTV’s Sweet/Vicious.

To be fair, my television tastes do skew more teen-centric than most critics—I am a teen at heart; I can’t help it!—so my other “Why aren’t more people talking about this?” show of the year is MTV’s Sweet/Vicious. It’s a monster of a premise: two female college students who team up to become vigilantes, stalking and hurting (and in one instance, murdering) rapists on their campus. It’s so darkly funny, so stealthily brilliant, and so surprisingly adept at navigating the emotional arcs of the survivor narrative. One of the girls, Jules, is a survivor herself, and this trauma is never forgotten but instead helps to build the rest of the series. Sweet/Vicious doesn’t use rape simply as a brutal plot device to knock a woman down for an hour—take note, other dramas!—but instead picks up in the aftermath. It’s such an important show and even more important that it airs on a youth-skewing network. Who needs an empowering survivor’s tale more than women on campus?

[paulvdb]

I was just checking something on the show's wikipedia page and noticed that the schedule was changed. New episodes start airing tomorrow instead of next week.

[candall]

^^^This is nice.  Sounds like all of us here--if you watch it, you like it.  MTV just doesn't seem all that interested in people watching it.  This is about my fourth trip to the forum to see if it's been canceled because I can't find the next episode.

[candall]

Very cool that Ophelia is Bryan Cranston's daughter and she genuinely kept that quiet enough that I'm just now hearing about it--although I guess if this show were getting all the coverage it deserves, that little fun fact would have come to my attention sooner.  o_0

It was clever to set the attacker guy up, as she dashed through.  I have one eyebrow raised that a brand new knife slash would be confused with a 24-hour old knife slash, 'cuz, you know, clotting's a thing.

I missed why the campus security guy was dismissed, if they told us.  Is it just that the school doesn't want to advertise either the sexual attacks or the vigilante reprisal?  (Which would be true, I'm sure.)

Since the show is doing a decent job with the feminine empowerment themes, I have high hopes that sorority bestie doesn't automatically stick with the boyfriend over Jules.  They did such a nice twist by making the flibbertigibbet girl a brain, now I want the sorority president to be better than the standard tv cliché, too.

Edited January 5, 2017 by candall

[paulvdb]

11 minutes ago, candall said:

I missed why the campus security guy was dismissed, if they told us.  Is it just that the school doesn't want to advertise either the sexual attacks or the vigilante reprisal?  (Which would be true, I'm sure.)

It was not mentioned, but I came to the same conclusion as you about the school not wanting to advertise the sexual attacks. Didn't the campus security guy say something like that to Harris in one of the earlier episodes?

Edited January 5, 2017 by paulvdb

[tongueincheek]

I binged the first 5 episodes this past weekend and really fell in love with its unflinching voice as it amplifies those voices of survivors of sexual violence. I hope MTV knows what it has on its hands. I'm dreading this show being cancelled. 

I really love and appreciate how subversive the show and its characters are. The whole cast is really killing it, but Eliza Bennett keeps impressing with every episode. She's, no doubt, got the most difficult role here and she's not missing a single beat. The confrontation scene with Nate was brutally cathartic. I loved the writing - so often, a victim's words are manipulated against them, but everything Jules told Nate was clear cut...there was no misconstruing any of that. That scene also solidified how fantastic Eliza's American accent is because of her intonations...I didn't catch a single slip in her accent. Also, that last scene with Kennedy (fab work by Aisha Dee as well) was so crushing. 

Edited January 5, 2017 by tongueincheek

[slf]

I really like Ophelia but she's got to put some more thought into her actions. This isn't as personal for her as it is for Jules which may be a part of it. But she's made some serious mistakes and if they get caught they will absolutely go to prison. 

That being said I continue to love this show. It's really ballsy in a way no other show on the air is and is unapologetic in its support of victims and women in general. Jules is a remarkable character and I'm glad the show let her have that confrontation with Nate. So many rapists are just like him, trying to make their victims believe it wasn't really rape, trying to poison people against their victims. I hope the show lasts long enough for Jules to get some kind of justice.

[tongueincheek]

2 hours ago, slf said:

That being said I continue to love this show. It's really ballsy in a way no other show on the air is and is unapologetic in its support of victims and women in general. Jules is a remarkable character and I'm glad the show let her have that confrontation with Nate. So many rapists are just like him, trying to make their victims believe it wasn't really rape, trying to poison people against their victims. I hope the show lasts long enough for Jules to get some kind of justice.

I've read a few interviews with the show's creator indicating that this second half of the season will shift from "case/rapist of the week" and delve deeper into Jules' journey. Since they don't know if they'll be getting a second season, they made sure to resolve Jules' story where Nate is concerned (even if they get a season two, Jules will still be Jules so she'll always be on her journey...). The focus for season one is Jules. If they get a second season (or more), they want to explore rape culture for those within the LGBTQ community, male victims, and race issues on campus.  I really hope MTV will give the show the space to do just that. 

Jules just might be my new favorite TV character going into this new year. I love how she's so many different things, contradictory things, often all at once: strong/vulnerable, angry/hurt, sorority girl by day/badass-ninja-vigilante at night, crushing on a boy/completely appalled by a boy, a bit awkward and silly, but oft confused. She's real and she's whole. The writers and Eliza have done an incredible job in just six episodes building her and fleshing her out.

Edited January 6, 2017 by tongueincheek

[MV007]

Man, I hope people are watching this show.  It's got to be the best show nobody is talking about.  I'm a little surprised its not getting more buzz from the same critics who loved veronica mars, buffy or even izombie.

And I'll just add that Eliza Bennett's performance in the 6th episode was really amazing.

Edited January 6, 2017 by MV007

[paulvdb]

Unfortunately ratings have been low. All episodes except the premiere got less than 200 000 viewers. So it doesn't look good for renewal based on that. But sometimes networks will renew low-rated shows for other reasons. So I hope that will also be the case for Sweet/Vicious.

[Cranberry]

I think people just haven't heard of it, or don't know what it's about. It wasn't on my radar until I saw Variety's Maureen Ryan mention it as one of the best new shows of 2016.  I'd seen links to its promos on YouTube before that (I follow MTV's channel because I moderate a few MTV show forums here and wanted quick access to promos), but I assumed it was just another teen show like Awkward or Finding Carter, and I tend to get bored with those quickly. After I saw the Variety mention, I did a Google search, found other respected TV sites talking about how good it was, and decided to give it a shot. I watched all six episodes this week and absolutely loved them. I really think more people would love this show if they just knew it existed.

[taragel]

Definitely. The lack of promotion has been criminal for this show and it's soooo good. I follow a lot of TV critics, so saw some talk about the show's quality but not quite enough to discover it earlier. Starting in the middle of the holidays also probably didn't help.

[tongueincheek]

Yep, poor and next-to-nothing marketing. I mean, I understand how difficult the show is to market, even more so that the premise is a bit hard to wrap the brain around, initially. It's definitely a show people are finding though, so I hope the trend will continue. It's baffling that more entertainment sites aren't covering or providing regular reviews/recaps. I know a writer who was stunned he hadn't even heard of the show until I asked him about it. 

[Cranberry]

The reviews I've seen have all been positive, and they're coming from respected sites like Variety and The AV Club and Slate, so hopefully MTV sees those and gives the show at least one more season. It's going to be one of those word of mouth shows. I have been seeing it mentioned a little more lately on places like Tumblr, which is also key. If it can get a lot of mentions on social media, sometimes lower ratings won't matter.

[Cranberry]

Moving some posts from All Episodes Talk over here!

[whiporee]

I binged this on a flight last week and enjoyed everything until the last scene with Jules and Kennedy, because I can't believe for a second that Kennedy would think Jules was lying. Not standing there like that crying and begging, not with the history of oddness, not with her inability to go into the frat house or her unnatural distance. It would be the only thing that would make sense (frankly, I'm surprised none of the Zetas suggested it earlier) and Kennedy's reaction was out of character for the reasonably pro-feminist stands we've seen from the house so far. 

So I'm disappointed at that kind of created conflict, but I'm hopeful they'll make more sense next week. 

It also took me far too long to recognize Sam, but it might have been the lack to Shitstain and Honeynutz.

[tongueincheek]

Unfortunately, Kennedy's reaction is all too common in these situations. Yet, reason #2,039 most victims don't report or say anything. And I can imagine, given this circumstance, Kennedy is a ball of confusion with a bit of denial. Her boyfriend, whom she trusts and loves -- and for all she knows, has treated her well thus far -- just "admitted" (lied) to "cheating" (LIE) on her with her best friend. Kennedy's already reeling when moments later, Jules tells her that it wasn't consensual, she was raped. Jules (understandably/justifiably) has been distant, secretive, and has been lying to Kennedy (and plot point: she caught her in one)...Kennedy had that unpacked on her in one fell swoop. I mean, she did say that either one of them is lying to her. The denial comes in because she is a smart girl, she's bright -- no one wants to believe they could have the wool pulled over their eyes that way, especially someone like Kennedy. It's not easy, but I'm confident, she'll come around. 

Edited January 8, 2017 by tongueincheek

[Black Knight]

Yeah, although my heart broke for Jules at the end, I do think the show did Kennedy's reaction very well. It was earned, it wasn't quite the standard reaction where the person just refuses to believe, or automatically sides with the boyfriend for no really good reason. Earlier that night, she'd realized her best friend is a lying liar who lies. Then her boyfriend showed up and told her he cheated on her with Jules. Kennedy was already overwhelmed at that point, and then Jules showed up and said she was raped. I don't think Kennedy could even process it right then after all she'd already been through that night, which is understandable, and she didn't say that she didn't believe Jules per se, only that one of them was lying.

Add in that no matter which of them was lying here, the other still lied as well in a sense. If Nate was telling the truth - which of course he wasn't - then he still kept this secret from Kennedy, about having cheated with her best friend, for all this time. If Jules was telling the truth - which of course she was - then she still sat by silently while Kennedy dated a rapist who could have hurt her the same way anytime over the months in between, especially that episode when he and Kennedy were fighting.

So I wasn't mad at Kennedy like I was, say, Aria on PLL when Hanna told her that Aria's mother's fiance hit on her. Aria had no good reason for not believing her friend, but Jules really has lied to Kennedy a lot. And I think Kennedy probably feels right now that regardless of who she concludes is lying, she's still lost both of them. The man she loves is either a cheater or a rapist. Her best friend may or may not be lying about this particular thing, but she's a liar in general and so how can Kennedy ever trust her again? Kennedy was right when she said she's not sure if she's still Jules's best friend, and that Jules has been a stranger. We know why Jules has been a stranger, but all the same, that gulf exists between the two girls. Reality is, Jules's best friend now is Ophelia. If Jules had told Kennedy right after the rape happened, that likely would've made all the difference in the world. But she lied and lied and then Nate beat her to the punch with his own version.

I loved when Jules broke down at the store and Ophelia swooped in and wrapped her up in her arms. Their friendship really has become a lovely thing. And while I'm sad for Jules and Kennedy, I'm looking forward to Jules and Ophelia living together because that ought to be high comedy. Although the next episode looks like it'll be incredibly sad. It's good that we're going to see exactly what happened to Jules, but oh, so heartbreaking. I agree that the actress is killing it.

[tongueincheek]

They really need each other at this point; a really beautiful reciprocity they share. I love how Jules and Ophelia were thrown together haphazardly. Again, credit to the writers because the pacing and development of characters/relationships on the show has been wonderful. With the backdrop of this superhero-type genre, all these characters and their dynamics feel organic and honest. Not much, even within the plot, feels overly contrived. And much love to Taylor Dearden and her impeccable comedic timing. I'm still so impressed that the show can swing so sharply between humor and heavy trauma without exploiting said trauma. I love that rape isn't explicitly used as a plot device -- the story is focused on the aftermath. 

Man, I could say a lot about this show, and we still have 4 more episodes to go, but what a run this series is having. 

[zxy556575]

I originally skipped this because as @candall said, senior citizens ≠ MTV, but it was recommended in another forum here and I'm glad I gave it a try.

Love Ophelia and Harris except she really needs to be a better friend. I liked his hookup with Fiona the turns-out-not-a-ditz. I'm on episode 4 and while the actress is doing a terrific job, I'm not as much into Jules as a character. I guess I'd rather hang out at the record store than the sorority.

I love that the show was created by a woman, not because of the subject matter per se, but because there are so few of them overall and we need more (says me). I came across an interview with Jennifer Kaytin Robinson where she gives some background on how the show came about.

Edited January 9, 2017 by lordonia

[whiporee]

I'm a man. I have a 12-year-old daughter.

That was hard to watch. For me. I can't imagine what it was like to watch for women, or survivors of assault. 

Anything else I say would be trite. Good job to everyone involved.  

[luckyroll3]

MTV has done a shit job of promoting this show from the beginning.  Even today, when I went onto their site to watch yesterday's episode, it wasn't on the "Latest Full Episodes" page but Teen Wolf was.

[Unclejosh]

This was a must watch episode of television.  Brutally hard to watch at points,  but one of the realest most effective depictions of sexual assault and it's aftermath.

I just want to hug my 17 year old daughter and never let go.  She goes of to college next year and I am praying she never had to deal with anything close to this.

As a male survivor of both molestation and rape, I can attest to the fact that it never goes away completely.  The physical acts were not nearly as damaging as the mental and emotional damage left behind.  I am in my mid-40s now and I still don't trust anyone on any deep level. 

This show felt realer that almost anything I have seen before as it avoided the exaggerations or overly dramatic scenes that a lot of entertainment movies/shows seem to feel the need to portray assaults of this type.

This episode elevated this fantasy vigilante show with a message to a must watch expose on "date" rape that is such a risk for kids at college especially in my opinion.

[tongueincheek]

The entire discussion in the Title IX counselor's office was absolutely infuriating because that type of gaslighting happens to victims who are supposed to be protected by Title IX all the time, attempting (and oft succeeding) to confuse/shame/scare the victim into silence. 

As said above, incredibly upsetting to watch at times, but my heart completely tightened watching Jules attempt to Google what happened to her. Crushing. 

More of a structural observation, I really loved how they used their flashbacks, moving in and out of them in a chronological order of events. Then we got the montage of their dance party in the present day juxtaposed with the weeks just after her assault. And then the flashblack of the support group that brought us full circle to the very first moment we were introduced to Jules in the pilot. Really great editing there.

To echo an above praise: bravo to this entire team. 

[whiporee]

I know I said I wouldn't say anything more, but I wanted to point out that in addition to the rape and the aftermath, they did a good job of showing binge drinking in college. None of the stuff they showed seemed over the top (or at least none of it seemed farfetched). The only thing that didn't seem accurate was the Title IX office, because they'd be more trained than they showed, and much more sympathetic in the initial conversation. Especially now, where there is supposedly no acceptance of drunken consent (even if it had happened as the woman suggested, which it clearly didn't) and any school's Title IX office would know that. But she was accurate about fallout and pushback because we've seen plenty of that. 

The other thing that stood out to me -- and I'm embarrassed to admit I hadn't thought of it before -- was the mechanics of the rape. Pulling off panties against a struggling person, the sheer weight of the man on top of her. It's hard to make a out-of-my-mind-with-desire argument or I-honestly-thought-she-wanted-to proclamation when you're having to pull underwear down and force knees apart. 

Again, wonderful, frightening and enlightening job to everyone involved. 

[tennisgurl]

I just binged on this whole show, and I am really impressed by it, and I cant wait to see what comes next. I am especially impressed by how they balance the comedy (she had 12 comfort gerbils!) and the drama (all the flashbacks to what happened to poor Jules) so expertly. 

There were so many great moments in this episode, and I really enjoyed how they used the anachronistic order to highlight what happened to Jules, her response after, and how she is now. Well, enjoy might not be quite the right word, as it was really hard to watch, but very well done. Rape here isn't so much about the "shocking drama" of the actual event, or a cheap way to give characters some sympathy (unlikable female character? Have her get raped, or show she was raped in her backstory! Then people will like her), its about the aftermath of an assault, and how this kind of thing happens so often in the college setting. 

I really hope Kennedy will come around soon, and apologize to Jules. Honestly, I can understand Kennedy way more than I can for other characters who dont believe rape survivors. From Kennedy's perspective, her best friend started acting weird and awkward around her boyfriend she had always been close with, she acted distant from her and her other friends and obligations, she acted like she didn't care about the things Kennedy cared about, denied anything was wrong the many times Kennedy tried to reach out to her, has repeatedly lied to her to her face, and has seemingly replaced her with a new friend. I can understand all of that, seeing what really happened and what Jules is going through, but I can see why Kennedy would think that Jules had actually had consensual sex with Nate, and her strange behavior was guilt, and not trauma, especially when Nate told her his side first, and Kennedy had just caught Jules in a lie. Its awful, but I can see it from her perspective at least. 

[taragel]

I think they did a very, very good job of making Kennedy's confusion very nuanced.

I watched the binge drinking at the party with such a sense of foreboding--not just because I knew how it would end, but because for an awful minute or two I worried they would make a point of the drinking being "her fault" or "the reason" or "drinking is bad, kids" or some such nonsense. Then I remembered what show I was watching. ;)

Likewise I worried about Ophelia's reticence about getting in touch with the dude who's name I don't know... Evan? Maybe? ... was going to pivot into a "Because I'm in love with you, Jules!" but I'm so glad it didn't. They need to stay in a friend space for now while Jules is healing. Though I could see the show going there in the future. 

This show is just so well done. So much love for it. 

[MV007]

20 hours ago, taragel said:

 

Likewise I worried about Ophelia's reticence about getting in touch with the dude who's name I don't know... Evan? Maybe? ... was going to pivot into a "Because I'm in love with you, Jules!" but I'm so glad it didn't. They need to stay in a friend space for now while Jules is healing. Though I could see the show going there in the future. 

This show is just so well done. So much love for it. 

Why would they go there?  Maybe I'm forgetting something but I can't remember a single scene that would suggest either of these characters is gay or bi.

Regardless, I completely agree, this show is really well done.  I'm shocked by how much I like it.