Michonne: A Weapon with a Weapon

[Nashville]

Every day the Happy Campers of CDB are having to alternate between:

• Hunting and/or scavenging food and water.
• Walking for miles in the hot humid Southern climate, when the weather permits.
• Finding shelter from the elements, when the weather doesn't.
• Each night finding a place safe or defensible enough to allow at least a few hours of sleep between watches.
• Going without facilities to brush/bathe/shower/shave/shit for weeks - months - ever again.

If I were in this environment

- under these conditions

- - day after day

- - - and I ran across someone angsting over whether or not they were getting friendzoned...?

I'm pretty sure I'd have to kill them myself.

[ghoulina]

If Rick and Michonne are simply going to be "friends" or "co-workers" I don't want to see any further development between her and Carl.  Why should the desexualized black female, who no man could want, be forced to care for the "Master's" children?  This reads too much like "Mammy" to me.  There is no expectation that Rick's other "friend and co-worker", Daryl, babysit Carl and Judith, so why should Michonne?

 

Why would further development between Michonne and Carl equal babysitting? Carl is getting older and barely needs babysitting. In fact, with how he's grown, he could be babysitting some of the adults! I've never seen their relationship about Michonne physically caring for Carl, but more of emotionally caring for him. No matter what happens with her and Rick, she has a connection with Carl that has nothing to do with anyone else. It's one of my favorite relationships on the show. 

Edited October 30, 2014 by ghoulina

[Nashville]

I think it's a lot simpler than that.

Remember the candy bar contest on the railroad tracks?

In the midst of all the pressures of survival, Carl's the only one of the group who's not afraid to let go and actually have a little fun every now and then.

Silly? Sure.

But the equivalent of an emotional staycation in this hellhole of an existence.

[Timetoread]

Why would further development between Michonne and Carl equal babysitting?

 

I was being facetious.  Carl's age and what he needs wasn't my point.  My point is that Black women in traditional media tend not to be viewed as a potential love interest for the white male, or practically ANY, male lead - particularly if she doesn't look like Halle Berry.  Michonne is a grown woman but her role in this piece is to be the "friend" of a 14 year old boy.  Sure we can fluff up the story about how beautiful they are together and how Carl has some preternatural ability to relate to middle-aged Buppies who had children who died, and how Michonne is nothing short of being a Teenager Whisperer, but it is still the same ole same ole.  She is not romantic lead material and is thus better to be relegated to the role of child care or child bonding.  It is STILL "Mammy".  It is still "Gimme a Break".  It infantilizes her and desexualizes her.  The implication is that she exists only in the context of Carl.  But yes, I agree, they do get on well and its a refreshing change to see SOMEBODY give a damn about Carl.

Edited October 30, 2014 by Timetoread

[mightysparrow]

I was being facetious.  Carl's age and what he needs wasn't my point.  My point is that Black women in traditional media tend not to be viewed as a potential love interest for the white male, or practically ANY, male lead - particularly if she doesn't look like Halle Berry.  Michonne is a grown woman but her role in this piece is to be the "friend" of a 14 year old boy.  Sure we can fluff up the story about how beautiful they are together and how Carl has some preternatural ability to relate to middle-aged Buppies who had children who died, and how Michonne is nothing short of being a Teenager Whisperer, but it is still the same ole same ole.  She is not romantic lead material and is thus better to be relegated to the role of child care or child bonding.  It is STILL "Mammy".  It is still "Gimme a Break".  It infantilizes her and desexualizes her.  The implication is that she exists only in the context of Carl.  But yes, I agree, they do get on well and its a refreshing change to see SOMEBODY give a damn about Carl.

 

Again, I hear what you're saying.  But I don't think it's the case this time.  Michonne/Danai is one of the sexiest women on television right now. Don't forget she won Spike TV's 'Jean Claude God Damn' award.  I think anyone looking at Michonne isn't going to think 'oh, she can't get a man so she needs to be relegated to the 'mammy' role'.  A hardcore racist like Merle isn't going to let a Black woman under his skin if she looks like Hattie McDaniels (with all the honour and respect possible to Ms. McDaniels). If Michonne isn't with a man it's because Michonne doesn't want to be with a man.  The second Michonne puts her big girl shoes on, the line will be around the block.  I bet some zombies will swear off human flesh, just to get in the running

 

I'm not giving credit to the writers or showrunners for this.  It's all down to Danai.  She's been a Black woman in the business for a long time now and she knows how it goes, especially for dark skinned Black women.  It's not Carl's ability to relate to Michonne that's at work here, it's Michonne's ability to relate to Carl.  Which means that before the ZA, Michonne was probably an amazingly compassionate and empathetic woman who loved and was loved and probably thought her little boy hung the moon.  Look how she cared for Andrea.  All this was taken away from her in the most cruel way possible.  She sees a little boy who had to shoot his own mother in the head and sees a kindred spirit and does what no one else has bothered to do; reach out.  And by reaching out she heals herself too.  That ain't Mammy.  Now whether they would like Michonne to be Mammy-lite so the issue of her sexuality doesn't come up is another story. I'm sure there are probably lots of people in the audience who would prefer it.  But I don't think Danai's going to let that happen.

[Timetoread]

Now whether they would like Michonne to be Mammy-lite so the issue of her sexuality doesn't come up is another story.

 

 

That's really the crux of what I am getting at.  I am not against her relationship with Carl.  I've loved it from the start.  Partly because for some weird reason Carl went from being a nuisance character to quite simply being the one of CDB that I care the MOST about.  I love that kid, and was so happy to see an adult take an interest in him and even happier to see how he blossomed under that interest and influence.

 

I think my point is getting a tad missed because it resides in the same neighborhood as above.  I LOVE the Carl/Michonne relationship.  However I've also loved, just as much, the chemistry between Danai and Andrew.  It pains me that the show will run with the first but not have the balls to run with the latter because it is socially undesirable.  I don't believe that Michonne so far, nor Danai EVER, resembles a true MAMMY, but I balk at what I fear may be the intent of the writers to box this character into the context of Carl only when she could be so much more.  Especially when the chemistry is already there for the possibility of romance.

[kikismom]

 My point is that Black women in traditional media tend not to be viewed as a potential love interest for the white male, or practically ANY, male lead - particularly if she doesn't look like Halle Berry.  Michonne is a grown woman but her role in this piece is to be the "friend" of a 14 year old boy.  

 

  She is not romantic lead material and is thus better to be relegated to the role of child care or child bonding.  It is STILL "Mammy".  It is still "Gimme a Break".  It infantilizes her and desexualizes her.  The implication is that she exists only in the context of Carl.

Her role in this piece---the tv show and the GN---has always been as a strong woman, not defined by being the accessory of a man, who kept alive alone when most couldn't, who saved the life of Andrea when her own group abandoned her, who fought the Governor relentlessly, and has been a vital member of the top five fighters --Rick, Daryl, Michonne, Glenn and Maggie--when it comes to fighting walkers or fighting humans.

 

People on TWD not romantic lead material

Morgan

Jim

Amy

Jacqui

Morales and Mrs. Morales

The Vatos

Dale

T-Dawg

Herschel

Otis

Patricia

Dave from Philly

Tony  "      "

Randall

Milton

Merle

Dr. S

Jeanette

Lizzie and Mika's father

Joe

Everybody with Joe

Gareth

Gareth's brother

Mary

 

I can go on and on. 

Most of the people on that list are white. Some are Latino.

 

People who have roles on TWD that are not romantic leads are not being insulted, or defined as unworthy. And they are not being infantilized and not desexualized.

 

Any time an actress is not able to play a character without her storyline proving how sexually attractive she is, that is demeaning, and pandering to the concept that without sexual activity in her episodes she doesn't have any interesting reason to be there.

[mightysparrow]

That's really the crux of what I am getting at.  I am not against her relationship with Carl.  I've loved it from the start.  Partly because for some weird reason Carl went from being a nuisance character to quite simply being the one of CDB that I care the MOST about.  I love that kid, and was so happy to see an adult take an interest in him and even happier to see how he blossomed under that interest and influence.

 

I think my point is getting a tad missed because it resides in the same neighborhood as above.  I LOVE the Carl/Michonne relationship.  However I've also loved, just as much, the chemistry between Danai and Andrew.  It pains me that the show will run with the first but not have the balls to run with the latter because it is socially undesirable.  I don't believe that Michonne so far, nor Danai EVER, resembles a true MAMMY, but I balk at what I fear may be the intent of the writers to box this character into the context of Carl only when she could be so much more.  Especially when the chemistry is already there for the possibility of romance.

 

But it doesn't have to be Andrew or nothing does it?  There are a couple of available men in the cast and more actors are being added all the time.  I honestly think that Bethyl and Caryl are going to be laid to rest once and for all and then Daryl will be free and Norman has already said he's into it. 

 

I don't think Rick is the right man for Michonne.  He was ready to hand her over to the Governor and only changed his mind AFTER Merle took her.  She watched him tear a man's throat out with his teeth and helped him hack the Termites to death.  That's not the stuff pillow talk is made from.

[Timetoread]

People who have roles on TWD that are not romantic leads are not being insulted, or defined as unworthy. And they are not being infantilized and not desexualized.

 

Any time an actress is not able to play a character without her storyline proving how sexually attractive she is, that is demeaning, and pandering to the concept that without sexual activity in her episodes she doesn't have any interesting reason to be there.

 

 

Not at all my point.  But I give up.  White flag. 

[JBody]

Yeah there's tonnes of evidence for and against every possible pairing for Michonne. I prefer Rick. Some prefer Daryl. I don't think anyone is changing anyone's mind here. And that's cool. I just like being able to throw the ideas around and see what others think.

Well damn. TPTB better not neuter Michonne in the name of some outdated, racist "impropriety".

[Timetoread]

It's just that I'm fasting today and I want food.  Thus I can't form coherent sentences or thoughts. 
 
Richonne or bust!
 
That's all I've got left in me.

[ladyrott]

I adore Michone but Rick has never been my favorite character.  I definitely do not want them together.  I don't think Michone needs a man to be a very strong and sexy woman.  She does just fine on her own and I don't think hooking her up with Rick (or anyone else) will make her any more so.  I don't see anyone on the current cast that I am dying to see her in a relationship with.  They are always bringing in new people, though, so perhaps a handsome, sexy warrior will turn up who will make me a shipper for her.

[RedheadZombie]

I don't think Michonne would be interested in Gabriel.  He's a total coward.  And I don't consider him a coward for being afraid of walkers - that's common sense.  He's a coward because he knowingly locked out his parishioners, and two years into the ZA, he's still cowering on a rock and screaming out for the world to save him.  I don't think Michonne would ever respect that.

 

Tyreese is a bit of a controversial character right now, but I happen to love him.  I don't think he's comparable in any way to Gabriel, because Tyreese is actually capable of doing damage, and he's done it.  After Karen, he sat in that car and almost gave up on living,  But he was able to fight his way out of that crowd of walkers.  He's always killed walkers when necessary, but his difficulty was with killing humans.  When it counted, he broke that door down like Hulk and caved Martin's head in.  Only now are the writers creating a Tyreese who is so fragile he won't consider killing walkers.

 

And because Morgan was mentioned - I love the guy, but it was his inability to put down his wife that caused his son's death.  Every guy on this show has issues.  Michonne barely spoke for a year and only glowered at people.  They are all evolving and adapting.

 

The one thing I've always appreciated about Michonne is she doesn't forget Andrea.  She's also the only one who acted like Andrea was a decent person - after Woodbury.

[AngelaHunter]

Only now are the writers creating a Tyreese who is so fragile he won't consider killing walkers.

 

It's not just now. Way back when Karen was alive, she was at the fence of the prison poking walkers along with everyone else, except Tyrese. He had to go pick flowers and didn't approve of killing the mindless, flesh-eating monsters even though they were on the verge of busting the fence down and causing mayhem.

[ladyrott]

He had to go pick flowers and didn't approve of killing the mindless, flesh-eating monsters even though they were on the verge of busting the fence down and causing mayhem.

 

 

To be fair, I don't think Tyreese is against killing walkers.  IMO, he knows it has to be done, he simply doesn't enjoy or want to actually DO the killing (although he will if he has too).  I don't see any romantic chemistry between Michonne and him, though.  As a matter of fact, I am having a hard time thinking of any scenes where they spent any significant time together.  They would certainly LOOK pretty together, but hell, Michonne would look pretty with any of them. 

[Ocean Chick]

So if they don't hook Michonne up with Rick it's because they are pushing her into being a mammy?  Because she's not being sexualized?  What about Carol?  Is she being pushed into the mammy role because she's not hooked up with a guy?  What about Tara?  Or Beth?

 

These people have waaaaay more important things to be worrying about at this point than having sex, as fun as it is.  They won't die without sex, though they sure might die during sex if they're not careful and find a safe place.

[AngelaHunter]

What about Carol?  Is she being pushed into the mammy role because she's not hooked up with a guy?  What about Tara?  Or Beth?

 

I've read people saying that Carol & Daryl have a "mother/son" relationship, which just enrages me. Carol is what? 4 years old than Daryl? It's perfectly okay to hook him up with Beth, whose character is young enough to be his daughter, but Carol should be his mother? Argghhhh! The ol' double standard is alive and well even after a ZA. I really don't think age or anything else matters at all at this point.

 

But yeah - I don't see the other women as marginalized, infantalized, desexualized or "mammy-fied" because they're not hooked up. WTF? Anyway, on this show, getting hooked up turns you into a dreary bore. See Glenn and Maggie.

 

 

[mightysparrow]

I've read people saying that Carol & Daryl have a "mother/son" relationship, which just enrages me. Carol is what? 4 years old than Daryl? It's perfectly okay to hook him up with Beth, whose character is young enough to be his daughter, but Carol should be his mother? Argghhhh! The ol' double standard is alive and well even after a ZA. I really don't think age or anything else matters at all at this point.

 

But yeah - I don't see the other women as marginalized, infantalized, desexualized or "mammy-fied" because they're not hooked up. WTF? Anyway, on this show, getting hooked up turns you into a dreary bore. See Glenn and Maggie.

 

The actor who plays Carol is four years older than the actor who plays Daryl. I don't think we know how old either Carol and Daryl are.

 

The discussion of the 'mammy-fication' of Michonne has been going on in the Black community for a while.

[SevenStars]

The actor who plays Carol is four years older than the actor who plays Daryl. I don't think we know how old either Carol and Daryl are.

 

The discussion of the 'mammy-fication' of Michonne has been going on in the Black community for a while.

 

So if they don't hook Michonne up with Rick it's because they are pushing her into being a mammy?  Because she's not being sexualized?  What about Carol?  Is she being pushed into the mammy role because she's not hooked up with a guy?  What about Tara?  Or Beth?

 

These people have waaaaay more important things to be worrying about at this point than having sex, as fun as it is.  They won't die without sex, though they sure might die during sex if they're not careful and find a safe place.

Because that's historical and mostly the role that writers have put black women characters in, because that's the only role that writers think is appropriate or right black women. While characters like Carol and other white women are not pigeon hole into that role. There are diversity in roles for white women but you don't see that for black women, that's why anything that resembled this type of role push black people's button. Michonne not getting to have a love life or being put with a character  who doesn't fit her character except that they are both black, just becomes a theme that keeps repeating itself over and over again in almost every show. That's why some people are already calling foul before the game even begin because they fear it is only a matter of time, base on patterns that they have seen for decades and in hundreds and hundreds of shows. That's one of the reason people hang onto and love so much black characters who break this pattern because it gives them hope things are changing, slowly but hopefully surely. 

 

With that said, I don't think the writers are doing this to Michonne. Because of her past, Michonne was a close off character, who didn't trust people enough to be close to them or open-up to them. But the writers needed a way to have Michonne be open enough for the audience to understand her and get to know her.  The best way they could do that without writing Michonne OOC was to have her be close to Carl, a child. She could trust Carl and be affectionate with him because she knew that he would accept whatever she gave him without demanding for more than she could give because he was a child desperate for an adult attention and understanding. She saw that Carl needed someone like her as much as she needed someone  like him. So the writers pair them up, so that BOTH Michonne and Carl could have someone they could trust and be open with, without it seeming like they were being OOC. I don't think this relationship was done to mammyfied Michonne or for the sake of Rick, but because putting these two characters together was the best way the writers could keep them in characters, while at the same time use them to give the audience a look into who Michonne was and what Carl is becoming or is.

 

This is why I love Carl and Michonne relationship, because it is not about Rick or anyone else. But about them, because I think they would still have had this relationship, even if Lori was alive to be a Mom to Carl.

 

At this point, I just want more Michonne development on my screen.

[mightysparrow]

Because that's historical and mostly the role that writers have put black women characters in, because that's the only role that writers think is appropriate or right black women. While characters like Carol and other white women are not pigeon hole into that role. There are diversity in roles for white women but you don't see that for black women, that's why anything that resembled this type of role push black people's button. Michonne not getting to have a love life or being put with a character  who doesn't fit her character except that they are both black, just becomes a theme that keeps repeating itself over and over again in almost every show. That's why some people are already calling foul before the game even begin because they fear it is only a matter of time, base on patterns that they have seen for decades and in hundreds and hundreds of shows. That's one of the reason people hang onto and love so much black characters who break this pattern because it gives them hope things are changing, slowly but hopefully surely. 

 

With that said, I don't think the writers are doing this to Michonne. Because of her past, Michonne was a close off character, who didn't trust people enough to be close to them or open-up to them. But the writers needed a way to have Michonne be open enough for the audience to understand her and get to know her.  The best way they could do that without writing Michonne OOC was to have her be close to Carl, a child. She could trust Carl and be affectionate with him because she knew that he would accept whatever she gave him without demanding for more than she could give because he was a child desperate for an adult attention and understanding. She saw that Carl needed someone like her as much as she needed someone  like him. So the writers pair them up, so that BOTH Michonne and Carl could have someone they could trust and be open with, without it seeming like they were being OOC. I don't think this relationship was done to mammyfied Michonne or for the sake of Rick, but because putting these two characters together was the best way the writers could keep them in characters, while at the same time use them to give the audience a look into who Michonne was and what Carl is becoming or is.

 

This is why I love Carl and Michonne relationship, because it is not about Rick or anyone else. But about them, because I think they would still have had this relationship, even if Lori was alive to be a Mom to Carl.

 

At this point, I just want more Michonne development on my screen.

 

Thank you for explaining this so clearly. It's easy to casually dismiss something that doesn't affect your life and that's a bit of a trigger for me.

 

I hope they're not going to do this to Michonne. I get the feeling that Danai is the reason they aren't. She's no fool. I also think she's seen the kind of bullshit and actor has to put up with when romance enters the picture and might have decided to opt out. No one wants to receive hate mail and she got a taste of it after the show had the nerve to put in a couple of scenes where Michonne actually SPOKE to Daryl. I'm hoping she goes with 'fuck 'em if they can't take a joke' and films the steamiest love scene ever shown on basic cable with Norman AND Andrew!

[Pete Martell]

It's not just now. Way back when Karen was alive, she was at the fence of the prison poking walkers along with everyone else, except Tyrese. He had to go pick flowers and didn't approve of killing the mindless, flesh-eating monsters even though they were on the verge of busting the fence down and causing mayhem.

 

He said he didn't like killing them that way (staring at them and stabbing them), so he went on the supply run instead. I think he will kill walkers to survive (clearly he had to kill plenty of walkers when it was just him and Sasha and Ben/Donna/Alan), but he struggles with the whole world they're in, made a hundred times worse because of everything with Karen, David, Mika and Lizzie. 

 

The contrast with Michonne, who kept her boyfriend and friend as pets to punish them, and punish herself, and has at times identified as a walker (blending in, nearly losing herself in the pack), would interest me, but I wouldn't want this to be any type of romantic relationship. I just don't think she would want to put up with his fears and anxieties. 

 

The whole thing with Morgan is that I always assume Lennie James won't be around long.

 

A lot of shows would have a triangle with Rick and Morgan and Michonne, and their friendship torn to shreds in the process, but after Shane/Lori/Rick I don't think the show would go there.

[Timetoread]

Because that's historical and mostly the role that writers have put black women characters in, because that's the only role that writers think is appropriate or right black women. While characters like Carol and other white women are not pigeon hole into that role. There are diversity in roles for white women but you don't see that for black women, that's why anything that resembled this type of role push black people's button. Michonne not getting to have a love life or being put with a character  who doesn't fit her character except that they are both black, just becomes a theme that keeps repeating itself over and over again in almost every show. That's why some people are already calling foul before the game even begin because they fear it is only a matter of time, base on patterns that they have seen for decades and in hundreds and hundreds of shows. That's one of the reason people hang onto and love so much black characters who break this pattern because it gives them hope things are changing, slowly but hopefully surely.

 

This is well stated and to the point I've been trying to make.  In my opinion Rick and Michonne represent a natural pairing based on chemistry and compatibility.  I balk at the argument that they are, and should always remain, "friends", as if the thought of him touching her were unnatural.  I rarely hear this argument posited for fictional male/female pairings if they are the same race or equals in terms of attractiveness.  For instance, some argue that Michonne and Rick should be friends because romance would cheapen the show or the character(s) but then go on to say in the same paragraph that it would be really cool if she hooked up with Morgan or Tyrese.   Others will take it a step farther that this woman should not be considered sexual at all, with anybody, because she is a warrior woman - warrior clearly negating the woman half of the equation.  

 

So I do tend to call foul because historically, as said above, black females are ONLY cast as the friend, the enemy, or the caretaker but never, hardly EVER, as the romantic counterpart to the attractive, white male lead.   I can only think of one exception, Scandal, but of course that is the story out of the mind of a black woman.

 

But yeah - I don't see the other women as marginalized, infantalized, desexualized or "mammy-fied" because they're not hooked up. WTF?

 

Lori - two men fighting to the death over her.  Andrea - sexual relationships with two different men.  Maggie - sex with and then marriage to Glenn.  Beth - red shirt boyfriend then the possibility of Daryl.  Karen - on the show for 2 episodes but had Tyrese.  Tara - a lesbian but still managed to get a girlfriend.  Tara's sister - hooked up with The Gov.  Sasha - got and lost Bob.  Carol - Came on the show married.  There have been some flirtations but I'd say her age puts her in a similar boat with Michonne.  Michonne - Rick's right hand man, friend to Andrea (though not truly friended BY Andrea, IMO), friend to Daryl, and Carl's best friend.  In fact, last I count, Michonne is the ONLY female character to have not had a romantic or physical pairing with at least one of the males on cast.  She had a man once - pre show - but we only saw him fully intact in a dream, after that he was a walker on chains.  Seems to me that it is the NORM for the female characters to hookup with somebody sometimes.  Not so with Michonne (on the show - because I hear she gets it plenty in the comic).

 

As to the impossibility of romance happening at all in such an environment, I don't understand this argument either.  The desire to couple is instinct, often involuntary.  There's been no zombie apocalypse but there have been some pretty hard times on this Earth, yet the population has continued forward.  I don't tune in to see a soap opera either but it is REALISTIC that healthy men and women of childbearing age would seek out emotional and physical companionship.  5 years (into perpetuity) of just friends and coworkers is gritty television but not realistic at all.

Edited November 1, 2014 by Timetoread

[kikismom]

There's discussion of Michonne caring about Carl because she's a servant type, of Michonne not being paired up with Rick because of racism, of Danai being the one to choose not to because she doesn't want hate mail, etc.

 

This explains why Michonne cares about what happens with Carl, why Michonne isn't paired up with Rick, who's idea it was, and is just fascinating anyway because of the amount of information on the character and her background and her relationships and development.

It will not match the show exactly. Nor does any other character's file.

 

However it depends whether anyone reading this post really wants these things cleared up or not---it involves some spoilers and some possible spoilers (I say possible because even the show's writers have not finished scripts for the next seasons).

 

DO NOT OPEN THIS SPOILER TAG AND THEN COMPLAIN THAT IT CONTAINED SPOILERS!

That's what a spoiler tag is for...to hide spoilers until you make a decision to have info revealed or not, and you are responsible for the choice since you were warned.

 

I can just offer this...I can't decide for anyone else how to feel about it.

http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Michonne_(Comic_Series)

 

I have to put a spoiler tag, but then paste the page as a link because it is too long for a spoiler box. DON"T open the link unless you are interested in RISKING SPOILERY!!!

[AngelaHunter]

I don't tune in to see a soap opera either but it is REALISTIC that healthy men and women of childbearing age would seek out emotional and physical companionship.

 

I've said this before and totally agree. All these mature people living in close quarters in dire situations would naturally seek each other out, if only for some physical closeness and comfort and it doesn't have to be undying love and romance a la Glen/Maggie. But it seems for the sponsors, normal sexual activity is the only thing taboo on this show.

 

Maybe Michonne is lucky she never hooked up. I've read quite a few comments in other places by viewers, calling both Lori and Andrea "whores". Grown women who each had two sexual partners in what? two years? are whores. WTF? That's some mindset.

[kikismom]

Yeah, I don't see why a lot of these people can't be snuggle friends, you know, everyone needs some tension release and comfort and not a lot of strings attached. Adults version of a back rub with a happy ending. There's alot they could do without worrying about pregnancy/contraception. Also quite a few things possible without the need for a complete head to toe hot shower. Just sayin'.

[AngelaHunter]

There's alot they could do without worrying about pregnancy/contraception.

 

Do tell. But can't they just send Glenn on a condom run? He seems to know where to find unlimited supplies!

[kikismom]

Speaking for myself, for contraception I generally rely on my looks and personality.

 

As far as the show's characters go, it is unrealistic for this many years to go by with only the True Love of Glenn and Maggie. Or gang rape. That's the big TWD menu.

[AngelaHunter]

for contraception I generally rely on my looks and personality.

 

We know that's not true, well...at least the personality part.*snerk* J/K!

 

Or gang rape.

 

That's just wrong. It would be heartbreaking to see Rick and Daryl being sexually abused.

[mightysparrow]

Since Sunday's episode is a Road to DC episode and next week is Carol and Daryl's excellent adventure, it looks like we won't see Michonne until at least episode 7.  Perhaps Danai had other commitments and wasn't available for shooting.  I'm hoping that the second half of the season will be more Michonne-full.  I think that tptb have made the mistake of thinking that just because fans of some characters aren't as loud or aggressive as certain fandoms, they don't exist. 

[Mu Shu]

Kikismom, when the ZA starts I am joining up with your group, as long as we don't have to eat people or service creepy Ray Liotta type rogue cops.

[kikismom]

Kikismom, when the ZA starts I am joining up with your group, as long as we don't have to eat people

Would love to be in a group with you! but...there was a political strategist named Lee Atwater who once said "The perception creates the reality"---meaning when the

ZA comes, you have to promise not to introduce yourself to strangers as MuShu!

[RedheadZombie]

This is well stated and to the point I've been trying to make.  In my opinion Rick and Michonne represent a natural pairing based on chemistry and compatibility.  I balk at the argument that they are, and should always remain, "friends", as if the thought of him touching her were unnatural.  I rarely hear this argument posited for fictional male/female pairings if they are the same race or equals in terms of attractiveness.  For instance, some argue that Michonne and Rick should be friends because romance would cheapen the show or the character(s) but then go on to say in the same paragraph that it would be really cool if she hooked up with Morgan or Tyrese.   Others will take it a step farther that this woman should not be considered sexual at all, with anybody, because she is a warrior woman - warrior clearly negating the woman half of the equation.  

 

So I do tend to call foul because historically, as said above, black females are ONLY cast as the friend, the enemy, or the caretaker but never, hardly EVER, as the romantic counterpart to the attractive, white male lead.   I can only think of one exception, Scandal, but of course that is the story out of the mind of a black woman.

 

I can only speak for myself, but I like how Rick/Michonne/Carl are right now.  I'm indifferent to the thought of Rick and Michonne having sex.  There are a couple of reasons that making them a couple isn't so wise if you're a fan of Michonne.  First off, the only woman currently in a relationship has been completely marginalized.  Second, the show is primarily about Rick and his man-pain.  Rick's loved ones are always going to be in jeopardy.  Also, if the relationship doesn't have the chemistry we assume it will, or if fan's simply don't like it - who's job will be in jeopardy?  Not AL's.

 

At this point, I don't know if I want anyone hooking up on this show - it brings out the worst in fandom.  I'm already dealing with the fact that because I don't like Beth, I'm an insecure middle-aged homely woman, jealous of her beauty and fresh ovaries.

[Timetoread]

I can only speak for myself, but I like how Rick/Michonne/Carl are right now.  I'm indifferent to the thought of Rick and Michonne having sex.  There are a couple of reasons that making them a couple isn't so wise if you're a fan of Michonne.  First off, the only woman currently in a relationship has been completely marginalized.  Second, the show is primarily about Rick and his man-pain.  Rick's loved ones are always going to be in jeopardy.  Also, if the relationship doesn't have the chemistry we assume it will, or if fan's simply don't like it - who's job will be in jeopardy?  Not AL's.

 

At this point, I don't know if I want anyone hooking up on this show - it brings out the worst in fandom.  I'm already dealing with the fact that because I don't like Beth, I'm an insecure middle-aged homely woman, jealous of her beauty and fresh ovaries.

 

I have to say that as much as I get feels about Richonne, I can't argue with this.  Not at all.  In fact I wholeheartedly agree. 

 

Fandom is quickly becoming the tail wagging the dog.  Showrunners and writers should simply tell the story that they have to tell, and fans will have to deal with what we get.  I'm watching another show that is being ruined by the showrunners bending the story to what they THINK will better suit - get this - the fan base that they WANT, but is quickly losing the fan base that they HAVE.

[mightysparrow]

Re-watching the scene between Michonne and Father Gabriel made me grateful for the teeny tiny favor of watching two good actors do their thing. Danai and Seth did in thirty seconds what other actors can't get near in a whole hour.  Father Gabriel is still haunted and tormented by what he's done. But actually saying it out loud was a big step for him and he's beginning a journey. I think finding the sword was a big moment for Michonne too. It's all fine and good to be skipping down the road with Rick, babbling about not missing the sword but you could tell from the moment she picked it up again, that she didn't feel complete without it. I think she was contemplating what that means when Father Gabriel came out.  She can give him a shred of comfort; he won't ALWAYS hear the voices. But she can't tell him they'll go away because she knows they won't.

 

They say living well is the best revenge and I hope acting well is revenge for Danai.  They can try and push Michonne into the background, but as long as Danai's on the screen, she's going to shine.

[Pete Martell]

Danai at the AMAs.

 

[Nashville]

Danai at the AMAs.

 

Good lord. Did they have to put her up beside THAT doofus?

[ghoulina]

Yea, is that Frankie Grande of BB fame? Makes me not want to even watch. 

[CletusMusashi]

Those are not the nipples I would have chosen to see.

[Pete Martell]

Yes. That's him. Sorry about that. Here are more photos.

 

http://abbrre.tumblr.com/post/103464939667/november-23rd-danai-gurira-attends-the-2014

 

http://abbrre.tumblr.com/post/103466155252/november-23rd-lauren-danai-attend-the-2014

 

This is a video for an ebola petition.

 

 

We got more of Michonne last night than I'd expected (I thought they'd just show her and Carl left behind), but I wish we got more than just scraps. I'm also wary of them pairing her with Gabriel. I hope they're just having her try to help him the way no one really helped her when she was at the prison, and that it isn't leading anywhere else.

 

Danai does so much with quiet scenes like Michonne just watching Carl try to reason with Gabriel about self-defense. The show is so lucky to have her.

[editorgrrl]

We got more of Michonne last night than I'd expected (I thought they'd just show her and Carl left behind), but I wish we got more than just scraps. 

 

Michonne's lack of screen time means there's absolutely no way she'll be killed off in the midseason finale.

[Enero]

Hopefully they'll give her more to do in the second half of the season. We haven't seen much of her at all this first half. And though I enjoy the strong bond she seems to have formed with Rick and Carl I don't like her being sidelined to play house with the kids while the others go off to fight.

I understand why she stayed behind but that still doesn't mean I have to like it.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Enero

[kikismom]

Maybe it's just me, but in the scene of Carl telling Gabriel that people can't stay in one place anymore, not for long, I thought I saw a quick flash of hurt and surprise across Michonne's face. It seemed to me that she didn't expect Carl to say that, and that it was different than what she felt. I think Michonne might want to be in one place, perhaps with Rick and Carl and Judith, perhaps the group. It would certainly be better for raising a baby than constant nomadic scavenging. I'm wondering if Michonne is feeling that Carl is heading in a different direction goal-wise or attitude-wise and she had hoped they were in sync. Like when someone you're with a long time says something where you react like "I can't believe you feel that way! I thought we would both see this alike---what's going on? "

[mightysparrow]

I think Michonne was concerned because Carl seems to think that constantly moving is normal and she's worried about what the life they're living is doing to Carl.  It was probably also difficult to see a child you love tutor an adult on the best killing methods. That's probably why she went to Father Gabriel and told him the things they do are for the best even if it doesn't seem that way. She might be trying to convince herself too. It might not have anything to do with wanting to have a cottage small with Rick and the kiddies, just  desire to stop and rest. Losing her katana may have been a breakthrough for Michonne in showing her there could be another way to live. Getting it back might have felt good and familiar but it also meant her time of rest was over.  Those who see Michonne as a 'machine' might be surprised that she actually has feelings.

[JBody]

If anyone still thinks of Michonne as s machine I question if we are watching the same show. She is my favourite so I'm biased of course but early Michonne did not come off so well, which I blame on how the Woodbury arc, and the Governor, were written. But since then they've been pretty good at adding complexity to her character. I like that she was (is) a warrior mom. She was out foraging and fighting walkers when daddy and friend were watching her son. She regrets that but she's not superwoman (damned close). She was never a reactive dishrag like how some women who were mothers have been portayed. Michonne is strong and sensitive; she sees through all bullshit but still has compassion. And she has a smile that can power a small city. Love her.

My only complaint is we haven't seen more of her in general or her back story in particular but considering other characters haven't had a flashback at all I guess I'll take what I can get.

[mightysparrow]

If anyone still thinks of Michonne as s machine I question if we are watching the same show. She is my favourite so I'm biased of course but early Michonne did not come off so well, which I blame on how the Woodbury arc, and the Governor, were written. But since then they've been pretty good at adding complexity to her character. I like that she was (is) a warrior mom. She was out foraging and fighting walkers when daddy and friend were watching her son. She regrets that but she's not superwoman (damned close). She was never a reactive dishrag like how some women who were mothers have been portayed. Michonne is strong and sensitive; she sees through all bullshit but still has compassion. And she has a smile that can power a small city. Love her.

My only complaint is we haven't seen more of her in general or her back story in particular but considering other characters haven't had a flashback at all I guess I'll take what I can get.

 

You said it much better than I ever could or have.

 

Michonne was THE warrior mom. She took care of her son, her lover and his worthless friend. And then when her beautiful boy was killed, she picked HERSELF up and took care of herself and then took care of Andrea.  She was too busy taking care of business for self pity and had too much self respect to demand pity from anyone else, No machine would have ever stayed  by her best friend until the end. And when she lost the people she cared about AGAIN, she picked herself up by herself, AGAIN and moved forward. 

 

The only reason she's not superwoman, in my opinion, is because she doesn't wear a cape.

 

Unfortunately, Michonne won't get the same credit other characters get, even if she discovers the fucking cure. 

[CletusMusashi]

I still think Michonne is destined to end up with Father Pee Pants. 

I mean, think about it. She's a tough, awesome, badass swordswoman.

And he's only two letters short of being named Gabrielle.

Get him a staff, a blonde wig, and a little green sports bra, and they're good to go.

Either that, or Beth will become Gabrielle, and FPP can be Joxer.

Edited November 29, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[JBody]

Oh it just broke my heart when she said toddlers found her funny. I have two that age right now so it just...hurt.

CletusMusashi don't you dare pair her up with that gormless milksop! Ugh. He has to die soon or get a personality transplant. I can't take much more of his "The horror. The horror!" routine.

[Pete Martell]

I think Michonne was concerned because Carl seems to think that constantly moving is normal and she's worried about what the life they're living is doing to Carl.  It was probably also difficult to see a child you love tutor an adult on the best killing methods. That's probably why she went to Father Gabriel and told him the things they do are for the best even if it doesn't seem that way. She might be trying to convince herself too. It might not have anything to do with wanting to have a cottage small with Rick and the kiddies, just  desire to stop and rest. Losing her katana may have been a breakthrough for Michonne in showing her there could be another way to live. Getting it back might have felt good and familiar but it also meant her time of rest was over.  Those who see Michonne as a 'machine' might be surprised that she actually has feelings.

 

I agree with you on all this. And Carl told her not long ago that he still worries about succumbing to darkness. Carl is probably the most content now that he's been since she met him. She must wonder what he'll be when things start to get bad again.

[Pete Martell]

If anyone still thinks of Michonne as s machine I question if we are watching the same show. She is my favourite so I'm biased of course but early Michonne did not come off so well, which I blame on how the Woodbury arc, and the Governor, were written. But since then they've been pretty good at adding complexity to her character. I like that she was (is) a warrior mom. She was out foraging and fighting walkers when daddy and friend were watching her son. She regrets that but she's not superwoman (damned close). She was never a reactive dishrag like how some women who were mothers have been portayed. Michonne is strong and sensitive; she sees through all bullshit but still has compassion. And she has a smile that can power a small city. Love her.

My only complaint is we haven't seen more of her in general or her back story in particular but considering other characters haven't had a flashback at all I guess I'll take what I can get.

 

What always gets me with reaction to Michonne in season 3 is I don't even think her material was that bad. We didn't know who she was, and yes, she did spend her early episodes being guarded and tense, but even then there were hints of an inner life. Some of it was underwritten and did make her look like she couldn't entirely be relied on (like when she left the Woodbury rescue group to kill The Governor), but for the most part I thought they did a decent job establishing her personality and having her slowly make her way into the suspicious group. I felt like a lot of people at the time weren't giving her a chance. I remember a common fan criticism that she was too mean or that she needed to be humbled - I'm glad the show didn't "humble" her, which essentially meant punish her or degrade her. She never did anything to warrant that. And as the season wound down we did start to see more of her personality and inner life. 

 

The only real mistake I think they made was not showing her relationship with Andrea. 

 

Still, they did much better with her intro than they have with Abraham, or, to a lesser degree, Tyreese.

Edited November 29, 2014 by Pete Martell

[mightysparrow]

What always gets me with reaction to Michonne in season 3 is I don't even think her material was that bad. We didn't know who she was, and yes, she did spend her early episodes being guarded and tense, but even then there were hints of an inner life. Some of it was underwritten and did make her look like she couldn't entirely be relied on (like when she left the Woodbury rescue group to kill The Governor), but for the most part I thought they did a decent job establishing her personality and having her slowly make her way into the suspicious group. I felt like a lot of people at the time weren't giving her a chance. I remember a common fan criticism that she was too mean or that she needed to be humbled - I'm glad the show didn't "humble" her, which essentially meant punish her or degrade her. She never did anything to warrant that. And as the season wound down we did start to see more of her personality and inner life. 

 

The only real mistake I think they made was not showing her relationship with Andrea. 

 

Still, they did much better with her intro than they have with Abraham, or, to a lesser degree, Tyreese.

 

If this comment was a man, I would invite it for a naughty weekend.

 

I completely agree with you about Michonne's intro. The writing wasn't always on point but Danai's performance was so good from the very beginning that you knew there was more to this woman than just scowling. After a while I felt sorry or those folks who insisted that Michonne was nothing more than a 'scowler' because they were missing  really great performance by an actor who was brilliant with every man and woman she worked with. Even Merle fell for Michonne in his Merle-like way.

 

Not seeing more of the relationship between Michonne and Andrea was one of the biggest mistakes tptb made in season 3.The brief glimpses showed a friendship that had the potential to equal Rick/Daryl. But the writers and show runners of TWD aren't interested in female friendship. It's a shame.