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S02.E08: Boneless

Tara Ariano

By Tara Ariano
in Vikings

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ElizaD

ElizaD

So: Eye-var or Ee-var?

Guide: "E (as ea in Tea) v (as v in victory) ah (as are). This is the best English language pronunciation that still comes close to the scandinavian. The I should never be pronounced Ay, as the scandinavian I is pronounced ee or ea as in Tee or Tea."

I think I read an interview with Katheryn Winnick where she said she wanted her name to be Laa-gertha instead of La-gertha so that it wouldn't sound like Bertha.

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SingleMaltBlonde

SingleMaltBlonde

I can't wait for tonight's episode.  I grew up with my Norwegian Grandmother blaming slammed doors or missing things on Ivar Hinn Beinlausi (Ivar the Boneless).  It never occurred to me that he might have been a “real” person.  I am dying to see how they handle it.

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raspberry7

raspberry7

Lagertha, why would you ask Siggy in front of Horik "What's wrong with Ragnar's son?"? I guess he would find out soon enough.

Liked the Bjorn/Rollo fight training (and when they train in general). Not just because it was, ah, fun to watch, but also I like to see what they do to earn their battlefield prowess. 

I loved that the Big Three play-acted the group dynamics between themselves that had been real just earlier to dupe Ecbert's son.

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attica

attica

Okay, so they're going with "Eye-var" as their pronunciation. (They clearly do not listen to ElizaD.) Poor little thing. Good thing he grows up into an awesome dude. I wonder if the leaving-the-baby-in-the-woods scene was miserable to play. Unless they were using a prop-baby.

The actor playing Princess Hot to Go reminded me an awful lot of Jaimie Alexander (Sif from the Thor flix). That role looked fun to play. (And I know the real reason Ecbert wanted done with her; he was pining for his monk-muffin.)

I noticed that the cuts Rollo sliced into Bjorn were magically gone later in the scene. Did I miss a clue that they were meant to be imaginary wounds? I could've -- I was admiring the well-fit actors. Or was that just sloppy CGI?

Bone-less! Bone-less!

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Ohwell

Ohwell

(edited)

As much as I love this show, sometimes I get confused because I miss a lot.  For example, I couldn't figure out if Horik ambushed Ecbert's men on his own or if Ragnar knew about it.  I was a little disappointed in Lagertha for siding with Horik instead of Ragnar, although I was glad that Rollo sided with him.  Or was Lagertha just playing Horik?  As I said, I get confused sometimes.

I love how Born is becoming quite the grownup, declaring his love for the slave girl (can't remember her name).  It was also nice that Lagertha gave her smile of approval when she found out they were a couple.

The vegetarian nymphomaniac princess was a hoot, as was poor King Ecbert "surrendering" and letting the guards take his place. 

And flaming pig's heads!

Edited by Ohwell
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heyerchick

heyerchick

I didn't have the impression that either Ragnar or Lagertha knew anything about the attack on Aethelwulf. Ragnar was so thrilled to have proof Athelstan was still alive that he was ready to drop everything and go to Ecbert's villa there and then to see him. He caught himself up on the thought and consciously included the others as instructed, but Lagertha also expressed happiness about Athelstan. The fact that the ambush was led by Horik's son, too. I cannot imagine Ragnar or Lagertha consenting to such a rash action without trusted people of their own among the ambushers.


On another note, I was glad that Ecbert didn't just have Athelstan oiled up and tossed into the princess's bed. It would have been an easy win for him in his power play with her, but he respected Athelstan's character and took another solution. 

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AzureOwl

AzureOwl

On another note, I was glad that Ecbert didn't just have Athelstan oiled up and tossed into the princess's bed. It would have been an easy win for him in his power play with her, but he respected Athelstan's character and took another solution.

From what we saw of Princess Kwenthrith (damn the Saxons for their un-spell-able names!) Ecbert only postponed the inevitable. If Kwenthrith wants Athelstan, she's going to get him.

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CorgiNarnia

CorgiNarnia

My impression was that Horik acted alone on that ambush, getting tired of Ragnar making all the decisions. He was determined to get his revenge out of the way. What an idiot though. How is Ragnar supposed to make any progress on big picture (getting some land in England so people can settle and not have to raid) with Horik's meddling?

I think we all love Princess Aslaug a little more after seeing her compassion tonight. No way did she want little Ivar the runt offed. Even though Ragnar wanted to, Mr. Tough Guy who just did a blood eagle last week, couldn't bring himself to kill a little defenseless baby. I liked that he let himself off the hook for being unviking-like by saying, "the gods allowed him to live." From what we saw, it looks like he has deformed leg bones and possibly may not be able to walk, but who knows, maybe he will grow and have gnarled but functional legs.

So this Princess of Mercia sure is feisty. Wonder what King Ecbert's plan is? He wants her land but this Princess seems smart and he won't be able to outmaneuver her easily.

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green

green

My impression was that Horik acted alone on that ambush, getting tired of Ragnar making all the decisions. He was determined to get his revenge out of the way. What an idiot though. How is Ragnar supposed to make any progress on big picture (getting some land in England so people can settle and not have to raid) with Horik's meddling?

I think we all love Princess Aslaug a little more after seeing her compassion tonight. No way did she want little Ivar the runt offed. Even though Ragnar wanted to, Mr. Tough Guy who just did a blood eagle last week, couldn't bring himself to kill a little defenseless baby. I liked that he let himself off the hook for being unviking-like by saying, "the gods allowed him to live." From what we saw, it looks like he has deformed leg bones and possibly may not be able to walk, but who knows, maybe he will grow and have gnarled but functional legs.

So this Princess of Mercia sure is feisty. Wonder what King Ecbert's plan is? He wants her land but this Princess seems smart and he won't be able to outmaneuver her easily.

Ivar the Boneless was a real historical person like many/most of the characters on this show.  He has a very Viking-like career ahead of him.  And the producers are well aware of it.  According to this quote I found on Wikipedia (Vikings/Season 2):

"According to actor Clive Standen (Rollo), future seasons may feature characters such as Alfred the Great, Leif Ericson, and Ivar the Boneless, as well as travels to Iceland, Russia, France, and across the Atlantic."

I bolded Ivar.  And hope they have enough seasons.  Alfred the Great will born soon I assume him being King Ecbert's grandson.

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lawless

lawless

My impression was that Horik acted alone on that ambush, getting tired of Ragnar making all the decisions. He was determined to get his revenge out of the way. What an idiot though. How is Ragnar supposed to make any progress on big picture (getting some land in England so people can settle and not have to raid) with Horik's meddling?

 

It was hard to tell, but I also thought King Horik acted alone, presumably just to re-assert his dominance as King and decision-maker.  He wants "revenge" (though I agree with the folks who think that's it's not really revenge when Horik and the Norsemen were the invading pillagers/rapists/plunderers and King Ecbert was defending his people and his Kingdom, but whatever), but I also get the sense the Horik's MO is to always be on the lookout for ambitious Earls like Ragnar and Borg who might challenge him.  It's partly Horik's personality, but probably also just the Viking system -- which is why Earl Haraldson confessed to Siggy that though he had to go after Ragnar and try to kill him, at the same time, he had the utmost respect for Ragnar but was unable to acknowledge it without that becoming his downfall.  It's also why Earl Borg said Ragnar's ambition to usurp Horik's fame and prestige so as to become King in his place was obvious.

Horik's strategy seems to be to always stay ahead of Earls who might challenge him, and to sow division amongst them and their people, and to undermine popular ones whenever possible, even when using them as allies.  I guess there are some merits to that system, and in all honesty, Ragnar probably is a threat because he is a Visionary in the prime of his life, and Horik is not.  But if Horik were more savvy about using Ragnar's gifts and positioning himself to bask in the credit along with Ragnar, rather than trying so hard to undermine him, the Vikings could probably accomplish a lot more.  Colonizing part of England and getting badly needed farms and food, for example, instead of just whatever plunder they can manage.  And Ragnar, ambitious as he is, might be more loyal to Horik if Horik had extended more loyalty and support to him when he needed it.  If Horik acted like a father-figure to Ragnar, and extended him support and loyalty, they might both go a lot farther, together.  But of course, Horik just looks out for number one.  And yet, it was a pointless failure for him to abandon Ragnar during the Earl Borg crisis, as he failed to accomplish anything by staying in Wessex other than to lose a lot of men.  Now he's blocking Ragnar's attempts to forge a mutually beneficial alliance with King Ecbert, which will probably come to Ragnar's attention, since he can speak the language of England, but Horik cannot.  It's short-sided of Horik, and frustrating.

I think we all love Princess Aslaug a little more after seeing her compassion tonight.

 

I know.  I have hated her, and want to keep hating her, but I just can't.  This situation and the Viking way of handling babies like Ivar are awful, and I have to admire her refusal to go along with it for the sake of little Ivar.  I am so relieved Ragnar relented.  I knew Ivar the Boneless made it, but that was still tough to watch Ragnar even considering what he was considering.

Ecbert's "Good luck!" when he sent in the "relief troops" was hilarious.

 

Hee!  I also loved the "I don't know how to help."  Such a shame, King Ecbert, such a shame.

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lawless

lawless

I think we all expected more.

Yes -- exactly!  King Ecbert's been increasingly winning as a character, but he had no idea how to, err, help?  I was . . . let down.

Regarding Floki's sudden alienation from Ragnar -- did he say something to Helga about the "dark gods" that he sees, and that he thinks Horik has something to do with?  Is he having more affinity with Horik just because Horik plays the religion angle well with Floki (I think Horik started doing that with Floki during the failed negotiation with Earl Borg at the end of Season 1) OR is Floki losing his mind?  His reaction to learning Helga was pregnant indicated that there are things about himself that trouble him, he has always acted like a weirdo, and now the "dark gods" thing that Ragnar apparently doesn't get.  I mean, I hadn't really thought of Odin as "light."  What the hell is Floki talking about?  Are they going with a Floki is mad explanation for the issues with Ragnar?  I would love for it to be all a double-agent thing in which Floki is still loyal to Ragnar and spying on Horik, but it feels like Floki's feelings are supposed to be genuine.  Maybe it's madness?

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CorgiNarnia

CorgiNarnia

Princess Krithwith talking to Ecbert about Athelwolf while looking at him: "I'll gladly open my... gates to your handsome son." You could read Athelwolf's thoughts there "heh heh, i'm down, Princess." Then he looks over and his wife is looking at him. Priceless. A little gross however that Princess K wants to bang him and later bangs his dad. Probably would get with him anyway.

Does.anything.phase.Lagertha?? Even a dude with a knife at her face who threatens rape and mutilation, she insults his manhood. "The only person you could kill was a dying man. That's how brave you are." OUCH.

I am noticing the idea of private baths must be a modern one. People on this show are always taking a bath with other people in the room or creepers are watching through a crack in the wall.

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lawless

lawless

What is Princess Kwenthrith going to do when she gets a look at Ragnar and Rolo?

Excellent question.  Her reaction will probably be a priceless visual.  Unlike King Ecbert, I'm pretty sure they both know how to "help."   Ragnar especially.  Maybe Athelstan will finally reconsider that threesome offer after all.

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VillaVillekulla

VillaVillekulla

I had a question regarding the latest episode. When Ivar is born, Ragnar bites his cord to cut it (ick). Why would he do that? I know they don't have sterile clamps and scissors and whatever we have now, but he could've at least used a knife, no?

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peach

peach

So this Princess of Mercia sure is feisty. Wonder what King Ecbert's plan is? He wants her land but this Princess seems smart and he won't be able to outmaneuver her easily.

I find her character ridiculous.  It's difficult to believe a woman like this would be tolerated.

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Zalyn

Zalyn

If the Franks put up with Brunhilda and Fredegund, I see no reason to doubt the Anglo-Saxons would've put up with a girl like Kwenthrith.

Besides, she's got huuuge... tracts of land... that are "open" to many.  Princess Kwenthrith's also practicing moderation - she abstains from meat at the dinner table so she can enjoy some in the bedchamber *rimshot*. The "good luck" by King Ecbert was priceless. 

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VegetasMom

VegetasMom

I was mesmerized by the scene where everyone is preparing to leave.  I would love to get hold of that music somewhere. 

I read elsewhere that 7 minutes is missing from the American version to make room for commercials.  I wonder if the scene beween Ecbert and the princess was among those truncated.  The way that scene is edited it seems like Ecbert was somewhat lacking, but it was obvious they'd been at it for a while. 

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lawless

lawless

I read elsewhere that 7 minutes is missing from the American version to make room for commercials.  I wonder if the scene beween Ecbert and the princess was among those truncated.  The way that scene is edited it seems like Ecbert was somewhat lacking, but it was obvious they'd been at it for a while.

That's interesting -- 7 minutes is a lot of show, and might explain why things sometimes seem choppy.  Gotta say, this season I have constantly felt like the commercials go on so long, they really disrupt the show and take you out of the moment.  If they're cutting 7 minutes of show for these lengthy commercial breaks, it shows.  Does anyone know how to see the 7 minutes that are cut?

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GreyBunny

GreyBunny

(edited)

Does.anything.phase.Lagertha?? Even a dude with a knife at her face who threatens rape and mutilation, she insults his manhood. "The only person you could kill was a dying man. That's how brave you are." OUCH.

Well, he did think he was entitled to force himself on her.  He's lucky he got away with his life, if that had been me he would have had a knife in his eye socket too.

I thought the Horik-Ragnar thing was a double double-cross.  Ragnar didn't inform the other two that he wanted to talk rather than fight, so Horik retaliated by going behind Ragnar's back to ambush Ecbert's men.  

Princess Kwenthrith really annoyed me at first because the actress is so bad, but when she was eager to take on three guards at once after wearing out Ecbert, I thought, "You know what?  You go, girl!"  I kind of like her now.

I was mesmerized by the scene where everyone is preparing to leave.  I would love to get hold of that music somewhere.

The song is called "Helvegen (The Way to Hel)" by Wardruna.

Edited by GreyBunny
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constantknot

constantknot

I had a question regarding the latest episode. When Ivar is born, Ragnar bites his cord to cut it (ick). Why would he do that? I know they don't have sterile clamps and scissors and whatever we have now, but he could've at least used a knife, no?

I had the same thought, but maybe it is tradition or some part of their culture? They're no strangers to crazy shit. 

Little Ivar was so cute. I couldn't even watch the scene with Ragnar in the woods even though I knew he wouldn't go through with it. 

Count me in as another converted Aslaug fan. She has been growing on me lately. It's too bad she messed up Lagertha + Ragnar InLuv 4Eva but she's been somewhat cool since. 

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attica

attica

I find her character ridiculous.  It's difficult to believe a woman like this would be tolerated.

 

Not to be contrary, but we have so little information about the realities of women's lives in days of yore (histories written by men that either wish to instruct women on how to behave appropriately, or who more likely simply failed to see other kinds of women to bother reporting on them), that our notions of what was common and/or acceptable for them can't help but be distorted. There's no reason to think a creature like a ravenous princess couldn't exist, other than we lack stories of their ilk. Which is no reason at all, really.

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Lugal

Lugal

 

I find her character ridiculous.  It's difficult to believe a woman like this would be tolerated.

She did murder her brother and seems to be the last surviving member of the line of Offa, so she can do what she wants.  But on the other hand, she may not last long as in real life Offa's son ruled less than a year and his successor was not really related to Offa.

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peach

peach

I wasn't implying that women didn't find sex enjoyable.  I was saying I find it unlikely that she'd be as forward as she was in public or that she would casually suggest sex with a priest.  Call me crazy, I guess.  I guess there was some magical period during Catholicism when everyone was A-OK with that and didn't get prissy about it til later?  Women have been stoned or burned at the stake for far less. I had no idea the Dark Ages were so progressive.

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green

green

I wasn't implying that women didn't find sex enjoyable.  I was saying I find it unlikely that she'd be as forward as she was in public or that she would casually suggest sex with a priest.  Call me crazy, I guess.  I guess there was some magical period during Catholicism when everyone was A-OK with that and didn't get prissy about it til later?  Women have been stoned or burned at the stake for far less. I had no idea the Dark Ages were so progressive.

 

I know it is the thing these days to beat up on organized religion just as it was the thing to give it a total pass a half century ago.  I think the truth lies more in the middle.

 

As far as I can tell the "Church" (the only one in western Europe at the time, aka the now Catholic church) never endorsed the stoning of women.  Adultery was and is viewed as a sin but a forgivable one.  One of the most famous stories regards Jesus was of him stopping a mob of would-be stoners (no, not that type) from killing a "woman taken in adultery" with the famous line of only those without sin should cast the first stone.  That put a rather damper of the crowd but fast.  And was a major break with that ancient Hebrew stoning law which didn't make it into Christianity though it did in certain fundamentalist interpretations of Muslim Shiria law as we are only too aware of these days.  Though not the majority even here.

 

A woman might get ostracized some depending on the local community but not put to death.  Not by "the Church" that is.  What a band of emotional locals in the sticks might do is another thing.  But the whole "scarlet letter" thing came from the more conservative puritanical sects that arose after the Reformation as in the Puritans by their very name.  And they were that strict as a reaction against what they felt was a too liberal attitude towards these things by both the Catholic church and the more mainstream Protestant sects.  Especially the Anglican church which had replaced the Catholic church as the official state church of England.

 

Before say 1600 things tended to be a bit more forgiving for "sinners" other then witches/warlocks and heretics.  Both of these types got burned at the stake and later with the famous "float a witch" test.  It was always a bad deal to be a witch in a Christian country.  But non-witchy heretics could always "repent" pretty much up to the last minute before the fire was lit and get let off with no punishment other then march is a yearly procession with lots of other penitents where you simply carried a small tree branch and circled a church with your fellow mob of sinners and bingo, immediate re-set.  No harm, no foul.  (This was the English custom, don't know about the continent but we are talking about England here).

 

The "prissy" was the puritanical movement and is pretty recent in other words.  The norms of the people in England a couple of generations removed from their own pagan roots were far less puritanical.  Even 500 years later Geoffrey Chaucer makes it pretty clear people were happily sinning much of the time without much guilt about same.  Shakespeare confirms that the English remained a bawdy lot through his era.  It is only with the rise of the puritanical sects that things change some.  And this movement had more influence in America then England since they (Pilgrims aka Puritans) left England due to persecution of their rather unpopular beliefs.  Only the Victorian age ushered in somewhat similar standards regards the conduct of women to England which means the English had about a hundred year period from the mid1800's through the mid1900's where there was what you would term a prissy attitude held as the majority viewpoint.  Or paid lip service at least.

 

And besides the princess here is part of the movers and shakers of her day.  And the vast, huge, overwhelming majority of this class throughout history thinks and acts as if it is above what might be termed man's law (which they write and enforce for others but ignore for themselves), God's law (which they only pay lip service to) and nature's law (which they don't seem to know even exists).  It is a very rare ruler or noble that didn't bed anyone they wanted no matter the local religious or moral codes of their society.  One percenters have always acted like one percenters throughout history up through the present in other words.

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SingleMaltBlonde

SingleMaltBlonde

Even when the official position of the Catholic church was celibacy Priests had wives (and probably husbands) and mistresses. 

My mom converted in the early 60's and her small town very pre-Vatican II priest had a very close relationship with his long time housekeeper.  Everyone in town (very small town) knew...he retired and she left with him when the new priest came to town. 

The practice of almost any religion varies greatly from what the official text claims and maybe that isn't a bad idea.  No one wins with orthodoxy (Loki does not seem to be on a winning trajectory here).

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Cheetosandchoc

Cheetosandchoc

Yeah, Aslaug is ok in my book. I keep forgetting to watch this and just now saw this episode. I just find it stunning to watch. The scenery is breathtaking it's just filmed beautifully.

I was so upset when the prince's party was ambushed.

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Zalyn

Zalyn

(edited)

I'm betting that once Princess Nympho gets a gander at Ragnar and his BFFs, her hormones will go into serious hyperdrive.  I'd pay good bucks to have her break into this:

 

http://youtu.be/z6eTTaY1a6M?t=51s

 

(sorry about the link - since it's starting midway through the clip, it can't be auto-embedded)

And you win the bet!  I had that visual in my head during the scene in "The Choice" thanks to you.

Edited by Zalyn
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MrsRafaelBarba

MrsRafaelBarba

Hee!  I also loved the "I don't know how to help."  Such a shame, King Ecbert, such a shame.

I think we all expected more.

Guess he doesn't eat the kitty.

Princess K entertains me, hope see returns for S3.

Haven't caught up on that one yet. Just binge watched 1-2.

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