S03.E12: You Knew It Was a Snake / S03.E13: No Longer Just Us

[arc]

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You Knew It Was a Snake: The three couples engage in day-long fights.

No Longer Just Us: Jimmy and Gretchen investigate a murder site. Lindsay sees a new side of Paul. Edgar makes a sacrifice with unforeseen consequences.

 

Both episodes air next week. 3x13 will be the season finale. Promo here.

[whiporee]

Hard to think about both episodes when you've got Gretchen standing there on the hill. 

I was hoping Paul might be a little braver at the end of his arc. I would have liked to see him down Becca. 

I liked Dorothy so I'm sad to see her go. Jacksonville is the birthplace of Hooters, so there's always that. But I liked the actress and the role. 

Jimmy and Gretchen ... that I have to think about a bit more. Because at some point just being compatible isn't enough -- you've got to make each other happy. I don't know if they do that for each other. And when Gretchen missed Jimmy's point about family -- she kept coming back to it, even though he was trying his hardest to distance himself from the idea -- he might have been right to drive away. 

Their fight was awesome. All the way around, from his admitting his grief and her trying to claim it all -- even the "I was here first" was a great moment, and his romanticized (because of course that's the way a writer would see life) version of the way things are supposed to work .. really captured both characters. A great job of being honest and sincere for both of them, and for their creators, too. 

I don't know how I feel about the season. Too many concept shows for my tastes, but still one of the best on the air. 

[arc]

I'm really sad to see Dorothy go. But that fight she had with Edgar was so real, and ultimately it is real that people don't succeed in showbiz and it might make a lot of sense to move back home. Best joke of the night was Edgar's horrified "Oh no, that's way worse" to hearing that she meant Jacksonville, Florida.

I loved the proposal. Hated Jimmy fleeing, but kinda saw that coming as soon as Gretchen said they were a family now, so from that moment on I was dreading it. I still don't like it.

Paul grew some spine! A little!

I really hope Edgar and Lindsay aren't a couple of any sort next season.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Man, it's always one step forward, two steps back with these people. Jimmy not only proposed, but he went to the trouble to make up a murder for Gretchen! And then he did the cruelest thing possible - he gave her one of the most joyful moments and then he abandoned her. I really hope her phone gets enough signal to get an Uber so she isn't stuck up there all night.

2 hours ago, arc said:

Paul grew some spine! A little!

I think that Lindsay never found him as attractive as when he was giving her those verbal smackdowns.

Edgar grew some spine too! He told Lindsay he wouldn't bring her a pizza in the morning!

[luna1122]

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Man, it's always one step forward, two steps back with these people. Jimmy not only proposed, but he went to the trouble to make up a murder for Gretchen! And then he did the cruelest thing possible - he gave her one of the most joyful moments and then he abandoned her. I really hope her phone gets enough signal to get an Uber so she isn't stuck up there all night.

Gretchen and Jimmy are wretched people who should never be in a relationship, let alone married (tho at least that keeps them from inflicting themselves on other folks) and I knew, as probably did everyone, the instant Jimmy left to go get a hoodie out of the car that he would leave Gretchen there on the hill, but I STILL got a sick feeling in the pit in my stomach over it.

 

1 hour ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I think that Lindsay never found him as attractive as when he was giving her those verbal smackdowns.

Creepily, me too. When he leaned in and said 'lawyer up, bitch' and lit a cig, I was all like: hmm, Paul. Who knew? I immediately felt dirty after. Also, Lindsay, in those same scenes, with her bed tumbled hair and braless flannel shirt and smudgy slept in eye makeup, looked crazy-sexy. Lindsay is a terrible, stupid person, but she just cracks me the hell up.

[Ottis]

The show's dialogue suggested Gretchen had somehow come a long way (especially the scene with her therapist). I didn't see it. She doesn't seemed changed at all, aside from the fact that she said yes when Jimmy proposed, and the weirdness at the end when she was suddenly channeling Lindsay with the "we're a family" stuff (huh?).  This assumption about Gretchen just confused me.

Jimmy, OTOH, did move forward, propelled by his dad's death. However, he overshot his actual progress when he proposed. He wasn't ready for that. I'm not even sure he sees marriage as anything worthwhile, period. So the whole scene at the end was just a WTF for me, for both characters.

Which is a shame, because the first 30+ minutes were excellent, I thought. Yay for Paul for finally wising up, and he was absolutely right about Lindsay's abortion (without telling him) being far beyond the pale. He should be angry. Still, I liked that when Lindsay was thrilled with $2k a month, he gently tried to ask her if she understood the reality of that. Then he went too far, and the snicker of the lawyer was a reminder that he needs to stay within his lines. BTW, when Lindsay and her sister and husband closed ranks, Paul's reaction was a nice moment ... he was seeing in action a family, as dysfunctional as it was, that he had hoped to be part of and continue when he married Lindsay. He is better off moving on, but still sad to see what he wanted turning its back on him.

Edgar and Dorothy split up for reasons that seemed weak, but OK. They must not have had much of a relationship to begin with, if she bails because Edgar becomes "successful" (jury still out there). How about working as a team, propelling Edgar's success, and perhaps finding an opportunity for Dorothy?

And I can't remember what the names of Lindsay's sister and husband are, but all of their behaviors were spot on except his inability to diaper annoyed me. Cliche, and one that I never struggled with as a dad. The constant texted baby photos, and Gretchen and Jimmy's reactions, were spot on.

[arc]

5 hours ago, Ottis said:

The show's dialogue suggested Gretchen had somehow come a long way (especially the scene with her therapist). I didn't see it. She doesn't seemed changed at all, aside from the fact that she said yes when Jimmy proposed, and the weirdness at the end when she was suddenly channeling Lindsay with the "we're a family" stuff (huh?).  This assumption about Gretchen just confused me.

I see it the most in the end of ep 12, when they circled back to the agreement they made in the season premiere, which was that they could always bail at any time, and noted that neither had despite ample reason.

[FurryFury]

Fuck, that was just awesome. I was close to crying, then I was crying (out of happiness), and then I was crying (out of heartbreak). But it all felt true. Really true to the show and the characters.

Well done, show. Great job, all around, both writers and actors. Kudos.

PS On a deeper level, I always felt like the theme song ("I'm gonna leave you anyway"...) was bound to become true eventually. Not yet, though - they'll probably circle back to wedding, and only then it turns out they still won't happen. But it wouldn't matter, because hey, existentialism (featured in 3x12, by the way, extensively). Because choice. They both knew at some level it wasn't likely they'd make it, but they still tried. And Lindsey kept harping on about "my choice". That's the point, really. Choice. You may profess you don't believe in love, or relationship, or family, but you still choose to keep trying, to keep failing. And maybe, at some point, you'll make it. And even if you don't, it still makes you you. Makes you human.

I think ultimately, Gretchen will be the one to reject Jimmy. He did have his issues this season, but so did she - and she was trying, she was really trying. He was just too immature, too much of a coward to take the leap. And eventually, it's going to come back to bite him. That's how I'd end up the story.

Edited November 17, 2016 by FurryFury

[NorthstarATL]

I totally understood Dorothy leaving. Sure, she and Edgar could work together on her career, but somewhere deep down she'd always feel that she missed her opportunities and he'd be a reminder of that. Him pitying her would be too much to bear. Better to reassess in a new environment, with a fresh start.

 And Lindsey got a fresh start! I hate almost everything she did this season, but I DO think she felt trapped and probably still doesn't know how to take care of herself, but she and Paul were toxic together. I had to laugh at their "negotiations" though.

  I don't believe in marriage, except if you specifically want children (I mean, I know it exists, I just don't see the need for the institution), so the proposal didn't warm my heart or anything. I did enjoy that they were having a nice time together, and that they seriously do have a connection. I just think they are better off not trying to fit into society's boxes.

[Joimiaroxeu]

The show's title was probably never more appropriate than these last two episodes. Jimmy and Gretchen really are the worst, and I honestly don't know how Lindsay can function at all as a adult without someone to take care of her.

[kieyra]

When I experience the ongoing waves of depression occurring since last week, I'm just going to picture Lindsey sliding over the drawing of a cat as her opening offer. 

[AlliMo]

Man, that fight between Gretchen and Jimmy was so brutally honest, and yet possibly the most vulnerable they've allowed themselves to be yet. Maybe they'll make it, maybe they won't, but I'm into the journey. It really got me when Jimmy was yelling about her about why she still stayed despite his behavior and she just replied with, "You did." As screwed up as it is, there is a certain maturity in realizing that even if the odds are in failure, you have to at least try.

Lindsay's a glorious trainwreck, but "You knew it was a snake when you picked it up" is a hell of a line.

[luna1122]

7 hours ago, AlliMo said:

Man, that fight between Gretchen and Jimmy was so brutally honest, and yet possibly the most vulnerable they've allowed themselves to be yet. Maybe they'll make it, maybe they won't, but I'm into the journey. It really got me when Jimmy was yelling about her about why she still stayed despite his behavior and she just replied with, "You did." As screwed up as it is, there is a certain maturity in realizing that even if the odds are in failure, you have to at least try.

Lindsay's a glorious trainwreck, but "You knew it was a snake when you picked it up" is a hell of a line.

I went around singing this all day yesterday:

tho it seemed like an awfully literary, smart thing for Lindsay to say, or know. She has hidden depths, maybe.

[Deanie87]

Ugh, that was a gut punch.  As soon as Jimmy started talking about how psychologically sound he is, I knew it was going to go South.  But up until that point, the proposal was really romantic, in his bloviating, unbelievable pretentious way.  I loved the way he was looking at Gretchen when she approached the rock to touch it and just how well he knows her.  I thought for sure he was going to walk right past the car and at least leave it there for her, but damn!  Also, wasn’t it the same place that he proposed to Becca?

I am okay with Dorothy leaving, but I was kind of hoping that Edgar would maybe attempt to get her on the new comedy team somehow.  Also, why doesn’t Edgar become a Chef?  I guess he is now successful in comedy, but damn, he has got some skillz in the kitchen!

Then there’s Lindsay.  It is hard to express how much I HATED her sing-son-y “My body, my choice” spectacle.  Abortion was 100% the right choice for her and I have no problem with that par, but I feel like she doesn’t even know what she’s saying half the time, and her chanting that phrase like some kind of feminist warrior,  just left a very bad taste in my mouth. With her, it’s not a case of “the political is personal,” its “I am a selfish toddler and l go through life making decisions on a whim with no regard whatsoever for anyone but myself.”   Everything that she has done since she got pregnant, from smoking to pounding drink after drink after drink, to banging strangers individually and in groups, has just been gross to me.  I don’t hate Lindsay, and I think that the actress does a great job with her, she often gives me the biggest laughs, but she really is the worst.  

[Traveller519]

I think any effort by Edgar to try and leverage his position to help Dorothy wouldn't have helped where she had settled in her mind. She'd given it her best, but it hadn't worked out. While a lesser show may have played up such a move as a caring partner helping out his girlfriend, YTW is aware enough of it's own characters that to Dorothy it would have been a completely patronizing gesture, an explicit example of how her self-built career had crashed.

I think the relief on Edgar's face as he sat in the empty apartment echoed that. He cared about Dorothy, but her current state was a weight on him as well. Vouching for her to be on the writing staff would have been more weight, especially if she wasn't delivering.

 

Some great Choreography in this episode from Lindsay's blocked nude morning to the abandonment of the car at the DUI checkstop. This show does so much so well

[Ottis]

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Lindsay's a glorious trainwreck, but "You knew it was a snake when you picked it up" is a hell of a line.

But did he? I can't recall when the show picked up their romance, but did we see Paul seeing Lindsay pre-marriage like this? My recollection is that Lindsay was more normal when the series began, though she was always selfish. And she spent significant effort hiding her actions from Paul, even when she stabbed him ("you backed into my knife").

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Abortion was 100% the right choice for her and I have no problem with that par, but I feel like she doesn’t even know what she’s saying half the time, and her chanting that phrase like some kind of feminist warrior,  just left a very bad taste in my mouth.

I don't think the question was whether an abortion was the right choice for Lindsay. It clearly was, no one watching this show can think she would have made a good mother (and neither did the anti-abortion woman outside the clinic). The issue was that she did it without ever talking with or telling Paul, before or after, until she did it as an attack in front of the woman who was interested in hiring Lindsay.

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I think the relief on Edgar's face as he sat in the empty apartment echoed that. He cared about Dorothy, but her current state was a weight on him as well. Vouching for her to be on the writing staff would have been more weight, especially if she wasn't delivering.

I think that's right, but I also think the fact it was right means they didn't really have much of a relationship. Sometimes you need to accept help from your partner, sometimes you give it. And honestly, I think if their genders would have been reversed, people would be negative toward Edgar for quitting and leaving while Dorothy was experiencing success.

Edited November 18, 2016 by Ottis

[Deanie87]

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the abandonment of the car at the DUI checkstop.

Ha I forgot about that part.  Was the car stolen?  Why can't they see that they are soulmates meant for each other?!?

46 minutes ago, Ottis said:

I don't think the question was whether an abortion was the right choice for Lindsay. It clearly was, no one watching this show can think she would have made a good mother (and neither did the anti-abortion woman outside the clinic). The issue was that she did it without ever talking with or telling Paul, before or after, until she did it as an attack in front of the woman who was interested in hiring Lindsay.

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Yes, the worst part was that she didn't Paul, but when he confronted her about again in this episode, she seemed almost gleeful about and so self-righteous in her decision because "her body, her choice."  For me, it was just the gravy on the crap sundae!

[Traveller519]

1 hour ago, Deanie87 said:

Ha I forgot about that part.  Was the car stolen?  Why can't they see that they are soulmates meant for each other?!?

I think it's Gretchen's disgusting car we've seen since Season 1. I wonder if that was the full on abandonment of it, or if she'll go back for it. Looks like she could use it now.

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

I think that's right, but I also think the fact it was right means they didn't really have much of a relationship. Sometimes you need to accept help from your partner, sometimes you give it. And honestly, I think if their genders would have been reversed, people would be negative toward Edgar for quitting and leaving while Dorothy was experiencing success.

As much as he expressed it poorly, Edgar was sort of right in saying their relationship worked under their old roles much better than the new ones. Dorothy found excitement in the potential Edgar possessed, and Edgar was attracted to her sense of purpose and stability in pursuing her passion. As Edgar started to crawl into that potential, and Dorothy struck out at what she deemed to be her last at bat they that initial attraction was lingering on memories.

 

Regarding Lindsay, I see a lot about the "decline of her character" but I think a lot of what we've seen is the unwrapping of the package that was initally presented. Early in the series she was acting like the type of wife, that Paul needed. Someone to take to corporate functions, and she seemed okay with that. When Gretchen started dating Jimmy and experiencing her own liberation that afforded, Lindsay felt like she was missing out and started to unwrap. Now, it's interesting to wonder what that initial courtship was like. Lindsay stated multiple times her goal was simply to get married before Becca, and Paul seems like the type of guy who would fall for anyone who showed even remote interest in him. I think they were both blinded by their own motivations they looked past the character flaws in the other as something they could deal with, and for the first part of their marriage managed to bury.

[arc]

2 hours ago, Ottis said:

But did he? I can't recall when the show picked up their romance, but did we see Paul seeing Lindsay pre-marriage like this? My recollection is that Lindsay was more normal when the series began, though she was always selfish. And she spent significant effort hiding her actions from Paul, even when she stabbed him ("you backed into my knife").

Lindsay was pretty selfish when the show began, yeah. I think this season ended without a fro-yo moment, but seasons 1 and 2 both had Linds and Gretch abusing the free samples policy at the fro-yo shop. But more obviously, in s1's "Constant Horror and Bone-Deep Dissatisfaction", the origin stories episode, I recall that Linds was terrible in the days leading up to her marriage. She probably was trying to hide some of it but there probably was some element of Paul's willful denial as well. Also, everything that @Traveller519 just said.

And yeah, that was Gretchen's awful car, the one she scraped against an unmarked police car.

[kieyra]

This week I'm fine with "my body, my choice" being repeated as many times as necessary.

[Granimal]

My partner loves this show. I think its entertaining/funny sometimes, but I don't buy Gretchen and Jimmy as a couple at all. To have them get married would be completely unrealistic IMO. Also, does Gretchen have a job? Jimmy is such a snob I can't see him enjoying Gretchen's petty stupid hobbies. I don't see the chemistry, I dislike both characters. I don't buy the relationship, except that no one else will date them. If Gretchen takes J back after this, she's a sap. The theme song says it all.  Loved seeing Paul finally stand up for himself, though. And loved that Edgar was going well.

[Marley]

Lmao at Lindsay taking a pic of the cheque and then ripping it up because she thinks that's how you do e deposits.

Jimmy was a total douche at the end and I'm kind of over him. Gretchen should not take him back after that.

[arc]

7 hours ago, Granimal said:

Also, does Gretchen have a job? Jimmy is such a snob I can't see him enjoying Gretchen's petty stupid hobbies.

She's a music publicist. And Jimmy is a snob but ultimately he likes stuff he thinks he should be above. I think he's had a good time on every Sunday Funday so far.

[Deanie87]

On 11/18/2016 at 11:34 PM, kieyra said:

This week I'm fine with "my body, my choice" being repeated as many times as necessary.

Yes I absolutely get that, and normally I would be right there with you. But having Lindsay be the mouthpiece for it comes too close to making a mockery of it, especially these days. At least for me, YMMV.

[kieyra]

50 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

Yes I absolutely get that, and normally I would be right there with you. But having Lindsay be the mouthpiece for it comes too close to making a mockery of it, especially these days. At least for me, YMMV.

I'm pretty sure that whenever it was written, they had no idea when it was going to land, politically speaking. Lindsay's interpretation and understanding of the overall message was definitely played for satire/laughs. (What was her line? "It's why Margaret Thatcher went to prison" or something?) Having her dumb self be the mouthpiece was definitely part of the joke. But the message itself is still true.

(Don't want to derail this thread so I won't post again on the subject, just making it clear that I'm aware the character's speech wasn't meant to be a literal soliloquy for justice. Or hell, maybe it was. Maybe the writers *were* making the point that even when you're a dumb narcissist, it's still your body, your choice.)

Edited November 20, 2016 by kieyra

[wendyg]

I loved the first half intensely. For me, everything in it felt right, especially the end where Gretchen says "We didn't resolve anything". Because I think in just about every relationship there are things you just can't fix and have to live with.

The second half was less satisfying somehow, but still very good. For me, the standout episodes of S3 have been the Edgar episode and this first half.

[iMonrey]

I'm a little torn about the finale, because the first half was so gut-wrenching that when Jimmy proposed at the end I felt relief that we were at least leaving things on a positive note. Then again, if that had been the case, it probably wouldn't have felt honest to the spirit of the show. I'm not sure why Gretchen started going on and on about being a family but the minute she opened her mouth I knew Jimmy was going to drive off. 

"Lawyer up, bitch" was the big fist-pump moment for me.

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Also, why doesn’t Edgar become a Chef?  I guess he is now successful in comedy, but damn, he has got some skillz in the kitchen!

I don't remember if they've made such a point in the past of the way Edgar cooks but both of these episodes began with him preparing dishes that looked like the kind of thing you'd find in a high-end restaurant. Yes, why indeed isn't he a chef if he makes gourmet food like that? I have a sneaking suspicion there was a point the show was trying to make about Edgar not recognizing his true calling. He honestly isn't cut out to be a comedy writer.

Edited November 21, 2016 by iMonrey

[nameless slob]

On 18/11/2016 at 0:32 PM, Deanie87 said:

Also, wasn’t it the same place that he proposed to Becca?

Good catch! It does look like it. Maybe that is part of the problem: the fact that he proposed to two different women at the same spot makes it seem he has a fantasy about marriage, or romance.

[AlliMo]

Edgar's got culinary skills, but chefs work in a very high stress environment. Not the most ideal situation for him.

[scrb]

I enjoy these characters -- they're interesting to watch.

But what are the odds that in this group -- and you can even add the other minor couple -- nobody has their shit together?
 

Paul apparently makes a lot of money but how has he been such a doormat?  It really doesn't square.

This would be a brutal circle to be a part of.  Maybe that's the thing, no "normal" people would be around them too long.

[wendyg]

Actually, all but Lindsay are at least partially together: Gretchen apparently does quite well as a publicist; Jimmy's sold his second novel and seems to have no non-writing source of income (which right there is more successful than 90% of writers); Paul I'm not convinced needs to work - he *has* money, though we don't know how; Vernon is always shown as a fairly lackadaisical doctor and yet he isn't getting sued for malpractice so he must have some competence; and Dorothy, while not terribly successful, worked hard and consistently at comedy and was quite clear with herself about what she wanted. Edgar has been slowly bootstrapping himself out of the disastrous state the military left him in, and if you think of it that way he's really doing pretty well: he had his gym job, now he has a writing gig, he formed a decent relationship. Becca isn't a particularly pleasant person, but she's going along in the life she's chosen. (Edgar has consistently been shown through all three seasons to be a good and inventive cook; he could work as a personal chef for sure, but working up through restaurants would be both stressful and unsatisfying for him. In fact, he basically *is* working as Jimmy's personal chef and housekeeper, and he's got that well together, also.)

Lindsay's actually now made an interesting choice, however brutally she did it. She's *not* moving back in with her sister; she's not running back to Paul; and she even praised Edgar for not giving in to her demand for a pizza. The first step to becoming a grown-up, which is what all these characters are struggling to become.

I think that's why I have sympathy for all of them. They're surrounded by a fucked-up world, they don't like the role models they've been offered, and they're trying to forge paths that work both for them and in the world at large.

[arc]

10 hours ago, scrb said:

Paul apparently makes a lot of money but how has he been such a doormat?  It really doesn't square.

I think Paul is a banker or investment banker. As for being a doormat, he's a nebbish who used to keep himself happy with a variety of hobbies and interests and until this season Lindsay tried to avoid him a lot rather than steamrolling him.

[scrb]

I'm not just talking about making money or enough money to get by in the case of Dorothy and probably Edgar.  She has self-esteem problems, blowing one guy, thinking he was Chris Hardwick.  Edgar has PTSD and I doubt smoking weed, and now having a job, makes all his issues go away.

Gretchen makes money but she's obviously got mental/emotional problems.

So does Paul, the way he got into a relationship with her and the way he dealt with his father, before and after his passing.

Becca and the doctor may be materially well off but they're emotional disasters too.

I'll have to see the first episodes again but Lindsay wasn't always this crazy.  Seems like they decided to change her character after about a dozen or so episodes.

[Traveller519]

55 minutes ago, scrb said:

I'm not just talking about making money or enough money to get by in the case of Dorothy and probably Edgar.  She has self-esteem problems, blowing one guy, thinking he was Chris Hardwick.  Edgar has PTSD and I doubt smoking weed, and now having a job, makes all his issues go away.

Gretchen makes money but she's obviously got mental/emotional problems.

So does Paul, the way he got into a relationship with her and the way he dealt with his father, before and after his passing.

Becca and the doctor may be materially well off but they're emotional disasters too.

I'll have to see the first episodes again but Lindsay wasn't always this crazy.  Seems like they decided to change her character after about a dozen or so episodes.

Not only was it Chris Hardwick, but Chris Hardwick in 2010, which means, at best, Dorothy was hoping she was chasing an Attack of the Show Panelist over a decade removed from his most noteworthy claim to fame at the time. Brian Dunkleman was likely only slightly below Chris in terms of fame at that time.

Paul is a banker, though definitely not an investment banker. Likely a corporate banker. I've met many bankers in my dealings who are just as meek as Paul. In this day in age, they get to hide behind the corporate bureaucracy when it comes to applications. The alpha personalities are on the retail and investment side of the business.

As I mentioned above, Lindsay's character has changed since the pilot only in the sense that the story has developed. In the first part of the first season she was playing the part of the wife that she thought she wanted to be and Paul wanted for her. She'd resigned herself to the notion that being taken care of, and being married meant that she would go to weekend barbecues and dress the part of the Stepford wife, as much because that's what the rest of the wives did. Not that it's what Paul necessarily wanted. In fact, he was happy at that time to let Lindsay live her own life. Since he knew his hobbies didn't interest her, he didn't force them on her. It was Gretchen's relationship with Jimmy and how much it contrasted with Becca's relationship that Jimmy that "liberated" Lindsay throughout the first season to pursue her own happiness.

I think the key to the main 4 characters is that they're all aware of their own issues, and over the course of the series are learning how to accept and interact with the issues of the other people they interact with, which is what makes them such interesting characters in my opinion.

[biakbiak]

On 11/22/2016 at 5:44 PM, Traveller519 said:

Not only was it Chris Hardwick, but Chris Hardwick in 2010, which means, at best, Dorothy was hoping she was chasing an Attack of the Show Panelist over a decade removed from his most noteworthy claim to fame at the time. Brian Dunkleman was likely only slightly below Chris in terms of fame at that time.

It actual makes perfect sense for a comedy nerd. He launched the podcast in Feb of 2010 and it took off quickly with that segment of the population and he was a fixture in the LA comedy scene at the time.

[biakbiak]

On Saturday, August 12, 2017 at 1:17 AM, alikerofthings said:

like Edgar and I liked Dorothy, but I have a feeling the show wants him to end up with Linds eventually

Seriously? Good lord I hope not because while she is the worst he most definitely is not.