S07.E04: Service

[Dobian]

15 minutes ago, Raven1707 said:

I  went back and looked at the Cable Live + Same Day ratings for the first four episodes of Seasons 5 & 6, so that I could compare those numbers to where we are in Season 7 so far:

Season 5
10-12-14 “No Sanctuary” 17.3 million
10-19-14 “Strangers” 15.143 million
10-26-14 “Four Walls and a Roof” 13.801 million
11-02-14 “Slabtown” 14.518 million

Season 6
10-11-15 “First Time Again” 14.633 million viewers
10-18-15 “JSS” 12.183 million viewers
10-25-15 “Thank You” 13.143 million viewers
11-01-15 “Here’s Not Here” 13.339 million viewers

Season 7
10-23-16 “The Day Will Come When You Won’t Be” 17.029 million
10-30-16 “The Well” 12.455 million
11-06-16 “The Cell” 11.721 million
11-13-16 “Service” 11.402 million

It could very well be just the usual viewer attrition as a show ages, but if I were the producer, I'd take note.

Interesting that while episode one this season had high ratings (obviously because everyone wanted to find out who died), there was a significant drop in week 2, while seasons 5 and 6 only had modest drops.  And episode 4 of seasons 5 and 6 actually saw an uptick while this season the ratings continued to inch downward.

[Guest]

Please keep comic book talk about of the episode threads.  If you want to talk about the comics, go here.

Thanks.

[Anela]

I finally watched. Too depressing, and Negan is boring as hell. 

I love that Rosita and Michonne are still ready to fight. 

[Gobi]

The whole episode could have been cut down to a half hour without losing anything  of importance.

[AngelaHunter]

15 minutes ago, Gobi said:

The whole episode could have been cut down to a half hour without losing anything  of importance.

What, and miss the extra hour of Negan strutting, gloating and reciting nursery rhymes? Surely you jest.

[Geillis]

I am finding this whole season boring. I watched about 15 minutes of the last episode.  It is still set to record on my DVR, but I may  not bother to watch it.  I find having another bully to fight boring and I find Negan extremely annoying.  I can find better things to do with my hour. 

[J----av]

3 hours ago, Timetoread said:

Why?

 Because the direction they chose to go doesn't work with a happy Rick. The story only works if he is completely broken. Plus he did just see his two friends heads get bashed in and his son threatened a few days before. Plus his BFF is being tortured and held captive. Rick giggling with Michonne would be strange given what he is going through. The execution is VERY poor, but Rick finally being broken down is a great choice after him walking through everyone that he came up against for seasons. Especially after how cocky he was in season 6 

[jsbt]

4 hours ago, Timetoread said:

I do think attrition is part of it.  But I also think that the show is feeling both dismal and repetitive - which is not entertainment.  A new and escalating big bad every season gets old.  Thirdly, for those who got a charge out of the badassery that was The Ringleader, The Archer, The Samarai, and The Kid, the concept of neutering them is a turnoff.  We WANT to see them do what they do.  Daryl was grimey as hell but man did he wield a mean rocket launcher.  Carl may be angsty and going through puberty, but that's not your average kid.  Michonne has a samurai sword - what the hell else is there to say after that?  And Rick, well Rick is the Energizer Bunny of the Apocalypse, except of the murder variety.  Baddest Mofo out there!  But all we've seen for four straight episodes (five if you stretch back to the finale) is all of them crying.  Really show?  Really?

The problem is, to avoid speaking too much on the comic per the mods above, when the text is nothing but a repetitious cycle of another big bad over and over. TWD as a TV show has largely managed to pace that problem out over longer seasons, but we still see occasional threats popping up that increasingly felt samey - how different are the cannibals from the Wolves from those people at the hospital? I didn't see the point in having both of the first two, at the very least, and it's not like the hospital arc was immensely popular. Gimple did his best to differentiate, but to me the variety and evolution in the show during those periods came more through the changing characters and relationships than the actual action-oriented plot.

It's not all a problem. IMO, Alexandria is different; the Kingdom is different. It's the villains that increasingly feel the same. How many times can you do the same old "we are the real monsters! we do freaky shit!" angle? Not enough for Robert Kirkman, but enough for the audience.

Edited November 18, 2016 by jsbt

[Timetoread]

50 minutes ago, J----av said:

 Because the direction they chose to go doesn't work with a happy Rick. The story only works if he is completely broken. Plus he did just see his two friends heads get bashed in and his son threatened a few days before. Plus his BFF is being tortured and held captive. Rick giggling with Michonne would be strange given what he is going through. The execution is VERY poor, but Rick finally being broken down is a great choice after him walking through everyone that he came up against for seasons. Especially after how cocky he was in season 6 

See I don't think so.  Broken is a strong word.  He saw his friends killed yes, but he's had friends killed before, brutally and in front of him.  He killed his best friend with his own hands.  Carl has been threatened and seriously injured before.  He learned to what extent he'd go to in order to protect him.  He's been humiliated before- carrying around his best friend's baby that he had with his wife.  Death, loss, and humiliation won't break Rick.  And in spite of what happened he's got a lot to smile about.  He's alive with his children, who are healthy and who sleep every night in a house with their own rooms.  He's found love again with an incredible woman.  He's got people who still believe in him. Also I keep seeing the "he got cocky" argument.  So what?  So he deserves the worst of punishments?  He's a person.  People aren't perfect.  i just don't understand this audience who root against this man.  He got cocky that one time but what about all those other times he saved people's asses.  He never, not ever, chooses himself over the welfare of others.  He is a good man and not at all in need of punishment or chastising because he made the mistake of feeling confident after all he's been through.  I'll give you frustrated, sad, and scared- but not broken.  Nope,I don't buy it.

[AngelaHunter]

Quote

how different are the cannibals from the Wolves from those people at the hospital?

I still don't get the Wolves. Their only mission in life was/is to rush among people and just kill them savagely for apparently no reason at all, or least no reason I could discern. Are they all criminally insane?  Everyone at the hospital (including cops and medical staff), at Terminus and all the Wolves were just vile and evil and gloating, simply for the pleasure of being evil. Now Negan is vile and evil and sadistic when he doesn't have to be, and it's fun! Really, someone like him, who brutally abuses and subjugates his followers would need an armed escort at all times, and those armed guards better be living like kings in order to protect that swaggering asshole, because well, a baseball bat isn't much defense against a bullet.

[J----av]

54 minutes ago, Timetoread said:

See I don't think so.  Broken is a strong word.  He saw his friends killed yes, but he's had friends killed before, brutally and in front of him.  He killed his best friend with his own hands.  Carl has been threatened and seriously injured before.  He learned to what extent he'd go to in order to protect him.  He's been humiliated before- carrying around his best friend's baby that he had with his wife.  Death, loss, and humiliation won't break Rick.  And in spite of what happened he's got a lot to smile about.  He's alive with his children, who are healthy and who sleep every night in a house with their own rooms.  He's found love again with an incredible woman.  He's got people who still believe in him. Also I keep seeing the "he got cocky" argument.  So what?  So he deserves the worst of punishments?  He's a person.  People aren't perfect.  i just don't understand this audience who root against this man.  He got cocky that one time but what about all those other times he saved people's asses.  He never, not ever, chooses himself over the welfare of others.  He is a good man and not at all in need of punishment or chastising because he made the mistake of feeling confident after all he's been through.  I'll give you frustrated, sad, and scared- but not broken.  Nope,I don't buy it.

 I root for a good show. I don't root against Rick, i like him. But he has been far to comfortable for far too long. Its good to see him finally go against someone that can actually challenge him. It will make the pay off that much better. 

 

 And Rick has NEVER been in a position like this before. It makes total sense that he is broken right now. Him giggling while his best friend is hostage being tortured every night would not be in character. You need lows in shows to have the payoff for when there are highs.

[jsbt]

When the Wolves first showed up I thought they were Negan's people. I wasn't that well-versed in this portion of the source material so I didn't understand how there could be two groups that were practically identical. I still don't understand why they weren't the same group. The material was largely well done at the time, but in terms of the larger picture for fans who know the difference I don't know how people get excited about two back to back groups of psychos.

I thought the run-up to the Saviors was well-done, as was the big reveal of them in the finale last summer which was full of rising dread. I think the use of Negan since may delight Kirkman but significantly detracts from that initial menace.

[Mayadog]

Am I the only one who noticed Darryl's excessive blinking at Rick?  I saw this and immediately thought Morse Code, and now I'm seeing that theory on other websites.  Also, there was a scene where Michonne walked past a poster with Morse Code on it.  Thoughts?

[ganesh]

I'm not surprised with the ratings drop. The premiere just wasn't a good episode. I can see a lot of people like me that maybe get to the show when they can, or maybe they'll watch a bunch on a snowy day when there's not much to do. 

Echoing some of the sentiment above. It's been seven seasons and we've basically gotten themes on the same 3 or 4 characterizations. 

[mightysparrow]

On 11/14/2016 at 0:30 PM, Timetoread said:

I guess I am alone in this but I never saw Carol the way people seem to.  She ALWAYS seemed damaged and afraid.  She became stronger and crafty, no doubt.  But she was also shady, a liar, self absorbed and murderous.   She had to kill the psychotic child because, in her quest to make up for not raising Sophia to fight for her life, she missed ALL the markers that there was something seriously wrong with that child - even when the child's sister tried to tell her.  She taught a psycho how to kill others and the psycho killed her own sister.  Carol killed those people at the prison claiming to try to stop the virus but really to prove to herself that she could go there if need be (a la Shane, with the same results).  Yes she saved everyone in Terminus, but she still wanted to get away from them - she wasn't proud.  And her threatening of Sam made me sick to my stomach.  How many kids have died on her watch?

I've just always thought that the story of Carol was how broken she is.  She thought that becoming strong, fighting and killing without conscience, would make her better.   But it hasn't because the weakness was always inside her.  She's always been a battered woman, but she herself was the abuser.  And the more she killed in the pursuit of being strong, the more she realized she didn't like it.  She is NOT a warrior by nature, but she is a survivor.  What needs to change is how she categorizes these words. 

Oh PREACH that shit!!!

[mightysparrow]

On 11/15/2016 at 0:30 PM, ByTor said:

Of course Rick, a bully in his own right, has to have someone to bully now that Negan emasculated him.  I also do not blame Spencer in the least for hiding a couple guns.  As others have pointed out, from Spencer's viewpoint everything was fine until Rick came barreling in, and if I'm remembering correctly many of the problems started when Rick decided that a man hitting his wife was punishable by death.  How is Spencer supposed to know what else is punishable by death in Rick's twisted little mind?  I actively cheered him on when he asked how "lucky" Abe & Glenn were, but of course I'm always glad when someone calls that asshole on his bullshit.  And yeah, I do know I'm at a table for one here.

However, as much as I hate hate hate Rick, I do think his attempt at goodwill by turning over Michonne's gun was  a good idea.  No, it didn't work as an attempt to get Daryl back, but at least since the group was being side-eyed over the missing guns, it did offer to show Negan that they're not purposely trying to be shady.

So glad to hear Hilltop is going to be shown next week (I have the Amazon season pass & don't see previews), at least I'll get my Jesus eye candy, which, by the way, kills me because Negan should also be my eye candy, but his hotness is unfortunately overshadowed by how annoying he is.

Set another place at the table; you're not alone about Rick.  And I was on Spencer's side UNTIL he used Abe and Glenn's death as a way of getting at Rick.  Abe and Glenn deserve better than that.

I have no problem with 'broken Rick'.  He didn't just walk into ASZ and whip those 'weak' people into shape.  He walked in, planning to take over if the ASZ didn't measure up to his high standards.  He lied to the woman he's fucking now, a woman who has gone out of her way to care for both of Rick's children, including the one that he wants some kind of award for loving even though she's not biologically his.  Rick Grimes took one look at a married woman and was prepared to tear a whole community down just so he could get his hands on her.  And THEN he promptly forgot about that woman as soon as she was killed.

Rick led his group to commit mass murder on a bunch of sleeping people who had done nothing to his community.  Apparently, Negan didn't even know the ASZ existed.  Maggie suggested it but it was Rick who carried out the 'murder for hire' proposition.  He didn't give anyone in the community a chance to object; it was his way or the highway.

Now Abe and Glenn are dead, Daryl is even filthier than he's ever been and who the hell knows where Morgan and Carol are.  

I honestly don't know what an amazing woman like Michonne sees in Rick.  The only thing worse would be for her to start showing interest in Negan.  The comic is considered Holy scripture EXCEPT when it comes to Michonne.  Suddenly it's okay to completely rewrite the source material so Gimple's favourite can have a cool story line.  I would have loved to see Michonne in the Kingdom.  Danai would have been amazing!  

I have no problem with Rick being tortured by Negan.  My problem is that as an audience member, I'm suffering more than any of Negan's victims.  I agree that Negan is probably Kirkman's idea of what a REAL tough guy is like but I won't let Gimple off the hook.  He's the showrunner and he's allowing the character to eat the show.  Just like he let his favourite devour the show last season.

I'm glad that Hilltop is going to be featured next week.  It's nice that Gimple has decided to finally get around to checking in on the two characters MOST affected by the murders in the clearing.  

Edited November 18, 2016 by mightysparrow

[gymratgrandma]

I just can't with Neegan, the character is just too way over the top. I just don't understand why he is not dead

[Gobi]

7 hours ago, Mayadog said:

Am I the only one who noticed Darryl's excessive blinking at Rick?  I saw this and immediately thought Morse Code, and now I'm seeing that theory on other websites.  Also, there was a scene where Michonne walked past a poster with Morse Code on it.  Thoughts?

I noticed the Morse Code chart, and wondered if there was some significance to it. I did not pick up on Darryl blinking; good catch, if that's what Darryl was doing.

One of my many problems I have with Negan is that I can't see how he got to the position he's in now. He's not physically imposing; not enough, certainly, so that I could see him fighting his way to the top. And as others have pointed out, the first time he brought his bat to a gunfight would be the last. The kind of psychos who would be attracted to his way of life would also be the first to turn on or abandon him if he crossed them, say, by ironing someone's face. Must be that his endless monologues have everyone numbed into a state of submission.

[GodsBeloved]

On 11/14/2016 at 2:21 PM, AngelaHunter said:

And what's with Negan showing off by bashing in walker heads? Is everyone supposed to be impressed by that, when they've all killed walkers in every way and form imaginable? He's all like, "Hey watch me! Okay, okay - here we go. Are you guys watching? WATCH!" I mean, everyone already knows he can smash skulls with it.

Negan is Negan's biggest fan so he has to put on a show for himself is my guess.

Edited November 18, 2016 by GodsBeloved

[festivus]

9 hours ago, Mayadog said:

Am I the only one who noticed Darryl's excessive blinking at Rick?  I saw this and immediately thought Morse Code, and now I'm seeing that theory on other websites.  Also, there was a scene where Michonne walked past a poster with Morse Code on it.  Thoughts?

I didn't notice it but I saw this on Facebook. Someone said it looked like he said six miles east. I'm not going to watch again to check but if he did blink that then that's the best thing that happened in this episode.

[nodorothyparker]

If the show is now expecting me to know and interpret secret messages in Morse Code to find anything redeeming about this episode, it's in even more trouble than I thought.

[JackONeill]

I think Rick and crew should go find the nearest Mattress City and bring all the mattresses back to Alexandria. Then, when Negan shows up next time, give them to him. "You said you wanted something special. Well, the last time you were here, you got so giddy about our mattresses, we went out and got you some more! Oh, and by the way, these are burn-resistant, so if you drop a cigarette--or a can of lighter fluid--on them, they won't burn."

Edited November 18, 2016 by JackONeill

[Dobian]

10 hours ago, J----av said:

 And Rick has NEVER been in a position like this before. It makes total sense that he is broken right now. Him giggling while his best friend is hostage being tortured every night would not be in character. You need lows in shows to have the payoff for when there are highs.

LOL I have to say, in this show there are nothing BUT lows, the "highs" are when you think about it just "less low".

[AngelaHunter]

5 hours ago, nodorothyparker said:

If the show is now expecting me to know and interpret secret messages in Morse Code to find anything redeeming about this episode, it's in even more trouble than I thought.

Amen, and LOL!

[ghoulina]

15 hours ago, Mayadog said:

Am I the only one who noticed Darryl's excessive blinking at Rick?  I saw this and immediately thought Morse Code, and now I'm seeing that theory on other websites.  Also, there was a scene where Michonne walked past a poster with Morse Code on it.  Thoughts?

I've seen this posted as well, but did not notice it when I was initially viewing. 

I believe the blinking took place in an outside scene, so it's not like he was looking at the poster while doing it. Are we to believe Daryl spent his days in ASZ looking at that poster and memorizing Morse Code? Seems ridiculous. I bet Daryl has an eye infection because of all the greasy hair constantly hanging in them. 

[J----av]

8 hours ago, Dobian said:

LOL I have to say, in this show there are nothing BUT lows, the "highs" are when you think about it just "less low".

 Well it is a Zombie apocalypse

[magemaud]

Does anyone remember seeing that Morse Code wall hanging in Rick's house last season? 

[Ouisch]

7 hours ago, magemaud said:

Does anyone remember seeing that Morse Code wall hanging in Rick's house last season? 

Yes, it was up there back when Jessie and her family were still alive. I'm thinking that Rick and Daryl might have memorized the chart during their spare time (they had more down time at ASZ than at previous hideouts). Here's a POW blinking Morse code, it looks a little like Daryl might've been sending a message....but I could be reading too much into some random blinking.  

[raven]

On 11/18/2016 at 6:38 AM, Gobi said:

One of my many problems I have with Negan is that I can't see how he got to the position he's in now. He's not physically imposing; not enough, certainly, so that I could see him fighting his way to the top. And as others have pointed out, the first time he brought his bat to a gunfight would be the last.

Totally agree with this.  I don't find him imposing or scary or even unpredictable, which I think they're going for.   I did laugh at his funny reaction to Father Gabriel.  I rather liked last week's Dwight/Darryl episode - I thought both actors did a good job - but I'm not convinced that the Saviors are living so well that all of his main thugs would just fall in line behind Negan the blowhard, giving up things that are important to them.   Thanks to everyone who slogged through this episode - because of you, I knew when to FF and when to stop.  First time ever for a WD episode.

Like a lot of you,I don't want to see endless pontificating.  I want to see the effects on the people we've followed all of these years.  Rick we can see (and I think AL really sold it) - Carl is teen-anger, Michonne's angry and frustrated.  That's about it.   I'm more interested in the relationship effects, are there cracks in the ASZ community.  Father Gabriel trying to give Rick a little hope worked for me.   I did like that Rick lied to Negan about Maggie.   Totally on board with Rick doing what he feels is necessary to protect everyone.  Nothing worse that feeling like you can do it all - you're completely in control - and finding out you're not; the premiere kind of worked for me in that respect.  Not sure if it makes sense - I understand Rick's reactions and attitude, it's what the show wants right now, BUT the show hasn't made Negan impressive enough to me to warrant that kind of reaction. 

Did Negan really rag on Olivia's weight?  Fuck off, you flat assed, skinny legged, raping scumbucket. 

So unfortunately the show is falling back on telling, not showing - by allowing Negan's endless talking, it reduces his threat (tough guys don't need to tell everyone how big and bad they are, all of the time).  For me, the superior numbers and firepower that they supposedly had wasn't obvious, especially when you see what's in the ASZ armory.  I needed more of Rick telling everyone what happened, who the Saviors are, why they're coming - I know they were early, but there had to have been an explanation about Abe and Glenn.  I wanted to see that.   I even liked the Spencer/Rick confrontation - there was truth in both sides.  Spencer has a right to be pissed, so did Rick. 

Completely unrelated, I don't mind Carl's hair - it's long but it's CLEAN, thankfully.   Oh, and GO Rosita. 

Edited November 19, 2016 by raven

[Dobian]

On 11/18/2016 at 2:55 PM, J----av said:

 Well it is a Zombie apocalypse

Actually it's an asshole apocalypse.  By now in the timeline we should be seeing the growth of normal societies more or less mirroring pre-apocalypse civilization, not just a collection of gangs and personality cults.  Zombies should now simply be a "danger of the wild" that can be managed through thinning their numbers and there should be expansions in farming, fishing,  maybe bringing some power plants back online.  Radio and even phone and limited internet communication re-established linking people together.  This wasn't a nuclear disaster, infrastructure was largely untouched.  There would be a military presence, since the military is actually built to survive any kind of apocalypse so it can help re-establish civilization in the wake of a disaster, and would far and away have been best prepared for this one, but it doesn't exist in this world.  But this show hasn't really been about showing the real aftermath of a ZA, it's horror fantasy where mostly everyone is some level of nuts, and the world is static with never-ending zombie hordes, scavenger societies, psychos everywhere, and no real progress or evolution.  But this is based on comics, so that's what you can expect.

Edited November 20, 2016 by Dobian

[JackONeill]

If Carl's hair keeps growing, TPTB are considering on calling the show TWH: The Walking Hair. The last show of the series will be the confrontation between Carl's hair and Daryl's.

[JackONeill]

5 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Actually it's an asshole apocalypse.  By now in the timeline we should be seeing the growth of normal societies more or less mirroring pre-apocalypse civilization, not just a collection of gangs and personality cults.  Zombies should now simply be a "danger of the wild" that can be managed through thinning their numbers and there should be expansions in farming, fishing,  maybe bringing some power plants back online.  Radio and even phone and limited internet communication re-established linking people together.  This wasn't a nuclear disaster, infrastructure was largely untouched.  There would be a military presence, since the military is actually built to survive any kind of apocalypse so it can help re-establish civilization in the wake of a disaster, and would far and away have been best prepared for this one, but it doesn't exist in this world.  But this show has really been about showing the real aftermath of a ZA, it's horror fantasy where mostly everyone is some level of nuts, and the world is static with never-ending zombie hordes, scavenger societies, psychos everywhere, and no real progress or evolution.  But this is based on comics, so that's what you can expect.

What you describe is no doubt what we would actually see if we were lucky (?) enough to get through the first several months of the ZA. But just think of the cast that would entail. You'd have to have a military base of operations, a medical base, a bunch of 14-year-old tech nerds rebuilding the Internet, etc. It's bad enough with the large cast we have now. Hell, we wouldn't see Rick but maybe twice a season.

[raven]

14 minutes ago, Dobian said:

Actually it's an asshole apocalypse.  

Wish I had thought of this, LOL.  Dobian, you are spot on.  It's a nihilistic vision for sure.   At least some groups would be working together, not terrorizing and bullying, yet pretty much everyone "our" group has encountered after leaving the farm have been psycho bullies.  It's repetitive and not very interesting.  I don't care why Philip became the Governor and I don't care why Negan's an asshole.   The Terminus people just seemed not very bright to be cannibals (seriously, isn't there an easier way to get meat) but I guess they were just insane.  The Ws might have been interesting but they were here and gone.

Zzzzz.  Oh look someone got brutally killed.  Yawn.  It's too bad, because of most of the main cast can carry better material.

It was mentioned that Shane or Merle would have been better antagonists - completely agree, the best antagonists IMO have some humanity and these were characters we knew; we could see their humanity and sympathize with them to different, varying degrees.   I would have been on board for Andrea killing Philip, taking over and being an antagonist.  Oh well, they're all dead now.

Edited November 19, 2016 by raven

[Gobi]

How much time has passed in the show? I know this is the seventh season, but in the show's world I think it has been much less. Going by Judith's age, I guess it's about two or three years. Does that sounds right? Makes the failure of society to rebuild a little better to understand, although I certainly agree that things should have progressed much farther even in that time frame.

[magemaud]

5 hours ago, Ouisch said:

12 hours ago, magemaud said:

Does anyone remember seeing that Morse Code wall hanging in Rick's house last season? 

Yes, it was up there back when Jessie and her family were still alive. I'm thinking that Rick and Daryl might have memorized the chart during their spare time (they had more down time at ASZ than at previous hideouts). Here's a POW blinking Morse code, it looks a little like Daryl might've been sending a message....but I could be reading too much into some random blinking.  

Thanks for the clarification. I could absolutely imagine Rick and Daryl sitting around the kitchen table working out a system to communicate with each other in the event that it was needed sometime in the future. Maybe all of the residents of that house (okay, with the exception of Judith) committed it to memory. 

[Gobi]

1 minute ago, magemaud said:

Thanks for the clarification. I could absolutely imagine Rick and Daryl sitting around the kitchen table working out a system to communicate with each other in the event that it was needed sometime in the future. Maybe all of the residents of that house (okay, with the exception of Judith) committed it to memory. 

If so, that's probably the first time they planned ahead. This group doesn't even set up rendezvous points in case they get separated.

[ganesh]

10 minutes ago, Gobi said:

If so, that's probably the first time they planned ahead. This group doesn't even set up rendezvous points in case they get separated.

I don't have a problem if there's some system of communication, but really, it would be a jarring discontinuity from what we've seen. 

The USA is a big country, and I have no doubt in the show universe that there have to be pockets of civilization rebuilding. I can buy that a whole bunch of people ran for the hills and there's a lot of lawlessness over wide swaths of the country. What I don't buy is that they keep running into basically only two general kinds of people in such a small area, or that they didn't run into anyone traveling around from somewhere else. 

As goofy as the kingdom is, at least they seem to be adapting in somewhat of a practical manner, with the horses, for example. Where does Negan et al., get gas for all those trucks? 

It's not like Rick needs to lead a full frontal assault. They can just sneak around and sabotage all their equipment. 

[festivus]

3 hours ago, raven said:

Did Negan really rag on Olivia's weight?  Fuck off, you flat assed, skinny legged, raping scumbucket. 

Yeah, you know Olivia being fat in the zombie apocolypse doesn't really bother me. Not all people are fat because they eat too much. She could have a thyroid problem where it makes her metabolism very slow. And who's going to be around to fix that problem for her? 

 

3 hours ago, raven said:

Completely unrelated, I don't mind Carl's hair - it's long but it's CLEAN, thankfully.

I love Coral's glorious hair.

[J----av]

3 hours ago, raven said:

Wish I had thought of this, LOL.  Dobian, you are spot on.  It's a nihilistic vision for sure.   At least some groups would be working together, not terrorizing and bullying, yet pretty much everyone "our" group has encountered after leaving the farm have been psycho bullies.  It's repetitive and not very interesting.  I don't care why Philip became the Governor and I don't care why Negan's an asshole.   The Terminus people just seemed not very bright to be cannibals (seriously, isn't there an easier way to get meat) but I guess they were just insane.  The Ws might have been interesting but they were here and gone.

Zzzzz.  Oh look someone got brutally killed.  Yawn.  It's too bad, because of most of the main cast can carry better material.

It was mentioned that Shane or Merle would have been better antagonists - completely agree, the best antagonists IMO have some humanity and these were characters we knew; we could see their humanity and sympathize with them to different, varying degrees.   I would have been on board for Andrea killing Philip, taking over and being an antagonist.  Oh well, they're all dead now.

 

 Sounds like you should just be watching an entirely different show. Also 3 of the four groups right now are, or likely will be working together

 

 Disagree about the best antagonists have some humanity. Some of the best TV villains ever (Joffrey, Trinity Killer and the best ever IMO Gus Fring) have very little humanity. TWD is just really bad at creating characters. Both antagonists and protagonists 

[AngelaHunter]

24 minutes ago, J----av said:

Some of the best TV villains ever (Joffrey, Trinity Killer and the best ever IMO Gus Fring) have very little humanity.

But while Arthur(The Trinity Killer) may have had no empathy for anyone, he was - unlike Negan -  deeply tormented by his twisted urges and violent behavior. He never laughed gleefully while he killed someone or made jokes about it. It was something he was driven to do and not even he knew why. He often longed for his own death although he would never have committed suicide. That's what made him interesting. He was a tragic figure, but he wasn't just pure walking evil.

[magemaud]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

The USA is a big country, and I have no doubt in the show universe that there have to be pockets of civilization rebuilding.

At least we're sure of at least one group on the West Coast, right? 

[Wryly]

4 hours ago, ganesh said:

I don't have a problem if there's some system of communication, but really, it would be a jarring discontinuity from what we've seen. 

The USA is a big country, and I have no doubt in the show universe that there have to be pockets of civilization rebuilding. I can buy that a whole bunch of people ran for the hills and there's a lot of lawlessness over wide swaths of the country. What I don't buy is that they keep running into basically only two general kinds of people in such a small area, or that they didn't run into anyone traveling around from somewhere else. 

As goofy as the kingdom is, at least they seem to be adapting in somewhat of a practical manner, with the horses, for example. Where does Negan et al., get gas for all those trucks? 

It's not like Rick needs to lead a full frontal assault. They can just sneak around and sabotage all their equipment. 

I am assuming Negan is able to accumulate a lot of resources like gasoline, on account of him being the world's biggest douchenozzle.

Dwight's poor wife. Imagine how much Negan must talk after sex. "Ho-ly crap! Did you see that? I pounded the HELL out of that! BOOM! Ha ha! Lucille, were you watching? Lucille loves to watch. Don't you, Lucille? Now, don't be jealous, babe. There's room for two women in my life. Hey, speaking of two women, did I ever tell you about the time I..."

A few more days of that and they're gonna find Dwight's wife hanging from a ceiling fan with a kicked over chair under her. Shouldn't be long now.

[Gobi]

1 minute ago, Wryly said:

I am assuming Negan is able to accumulate a lot of resources like gasoline, on account of him being the world's biggest douchenozzle.

Dwight's poor wife. Imagine how much Negan must talk after sex. "Ho-ly crap! Did you see that? I pounded the HELL out of that! BOOM! Ha ha! Lucille, were you watching? Lucille loves to watch. Don't you, Lucille? Now, don't be jealous, babe. There's room for two women in my life. Hey, speaking of two women, did I ever tell you about the time I..."

A few more days of that and they're gonna find Dwight's wife hanging from a ceiling fan with a kicked over chair under her. Shouldn't be long now.

This made me think of an "Airplane!" inspired scene of people committing suicide to avoid having  to listen to Negan.

[Wryly]

3 minutes ago, Gobi said:

This made me think of an "Airplane!" inspired scene of people committing suicide to avoid having  to listen to Negan.

Ha, really? Who did the skit? Maybe I can find it on Youtube.

[Gobi]

5 minutes ago, Wryly said:

Ha, really? Who did the skit? Maybe I can find it on Youtube.

 

5 minutes ago, Wryly said:

Ha, really? Who did the skit? Maybe I can find it on Youtube.

It's from the movie "Airplane!", you can probably find clips on YouTube.

[Wryly]

Just now, Gobi said:

 

It's from the movie "Airplane!", you can probably find clips on YouTube.

Ah, I thought you meant that someone had made a skit where an actor dressed like Negan was on the plane in lieu of the "Elaine guy," and the people he was sitting beside were TWD characters killing themselves one after another. Damn. That would've been glorious.

[AngelaHunter]

"Airplane" scene. Hilarious.

[AngelaHunter]

3 hours ago, Wryly said:

Dwight's poor wife. Imagine how much Negan must talk after sex. "Ho-ly crap! Did you see that? I pounded the HELL out of that! BOOM! Ha ha! Lucille, were you watching? Lucille loves to watch. Don't you, Lucille? Now, don't be jealous, babe. There's room for two women in my life. Hey, speaking of two women, did I ever tell you about the time I..."

After? He'd be doing that during.

[Wryly]

2 hours ago, AngelaHunter said:

After? He'd be doing that during.

Yeah that was my next thought. Only explanation I can think of for her still being alive, then: earplugs. I'm sure Negan's subordinates gave her some. Like, "Here. We keep these in our ears all the time. We've learned to just read his lips." This also explains how Negan himself is still alive. His people can't hear him. 

[ganesh]

6 hours ago, Wryly said:

I am assuming Negan is able to accumulate a lot of resources like gasoline, on account of him being the world's biggest douchenozzle.

I get the joke and the point. Certainly, TPTBs didn't consider the logistics of how Negan's operation actually runs. I meant that gasoline is eventually going to degrade, by now it should have, and it's a finite resource. Rick doesn't actually have to mount a full frontal assault.  They could destroy their fuel source. But again, requires strategy. 

Let's worry about Daryl blinking though. Makes much more sense. Instead of, let's make them walk here.