Carol: One Day You Just Change

[NoWillToResist]

if Tyreese can't pull the trigger he needs to be honest about it.  "Don't make me cover someone with a gun, I can't shoot. Just let me feed the baby, and no one changes a diaper better than me."

 

The thing that gets me is that, if Tyreese was honest about his inability to kill humans and/or his discomfort with killing walkers, I don't think he'd be shunned or kicked out of the group. Hell, back in the day, Carol did sweet fuck all re: defense/offense/protection; she kept the home fires burning with the cooking, cleaning, laundry etc. It was only over time that she expanded her repertoire. So if anyone can accept that a person isn't ready to go beyond their comfort zone, I think it's Carol. Tyreese can be taken off the front-line of battle, thus making everyone more comfortable. I know that I wouldn't want to be paired up with him on a mission if I know that he's not ok with killing walkers or murderous humans.

[Hava]

I liked Carol in season 1, and found he fact that she was victim of abuse wholly sympathetic and something that made me interested in her character. But I completely lost any love for her character when Sophia went missing and, unfortunately, never really regained it. I may have to go back and rewatch, but all I remember is Carol standing around and ordering others to go look for her daughter. I was completely gobsmacked that she wasn't out there herself leading the charge. I understand that it's the ZA and it's dangerous, but I expect to see parents risk their own lives for that of their children (sorry if that offends anyone). And her subsequent reactions to Sophia's disappearance and death seemed so cold to me--I don't know if that was on purpose or if it was the acting. So, I never warmed to Carol and no amount of ass-kicking has really changed that for me. 

[CletusMusashi]

This has come up before, although I'm not sure which thread it was on. My argument then, as now, was/is that Carol at that particular point in time was not a useful  tracker or warrior or even person to have in the woods with you when zombies are attacking. She was a useful member of a society. And what societies do is division of labor. if she could handle doing all the cooking and cleaning for those who were the big tough capable ones, then they could damned well put as much effort into finding her daughter as they would for, say, Coral. For somebody as worried as she was at the time, combined with how useless she herself would have been (at the time! she did get better!) doing the search herself (the group would have had to waste a good field person babysitting and/or finding and/or rescuing her, when that person could be searching for her daughter instead,) I think her decision-making ability was very commendable. And the fact that she sometimes came across as bitchy, at the group of heroes whose leader had run away and left her child in zombie peril, simply proves that she was human. 

As for the subsequent reactions... by the time they opened the barn, she had already accepted the death and grieved. Off-camera, obviously, because the stories of other characters in most of S2 tended to eclipse hers. But we saw the wheels for it turning earlier in some of her interactions with Daryl. And once she'd realized her daughter was almost certainly dead, she was still going to carry on, because there were still people around that she cared a lot about... then the zombie surprise wasn't that much of a deal breaker any more. She'd seen people she knew turn before. Once they turn, not so much to worry about any more. Just one more more Walker. The original person? Still dead, just like before they got up.

She used up her worrying when it mattered. When it was still plausible that Sophia was alive.

Edited January 17, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[kikismom]

I liked Carol in season 1, and found he fact that she was victim of abuse wholly sympathetic and something that made me interested in her character. But I completely lost any love for her character when Sophia went missing and, unfortunately, never really regained it. I may have to go back and rewatch, but all I remember is Carol standing around and ordering others to go look for her daughter. I was completely gobsmacked that she wasn't out there herself leading the charge. I understand that it's the ZA and it's dangerous, but I expect to see parents risk their own lives for that of their children (sorry if that offends anyone). And her subsequent reactions to Sophia's disappearance and death seemed so cold to me--I don't know if that was on purpose or if it was the acting. So, I never warmed to Carol and no amount of ass-kicking has really changed that for me. 

When Sophia first goes over the guardrail, Carol goes to run after her but Lori holds her back...then after Rick comes back and says he killed walkers but then Sophia was missing, the guys RIck Shane Glenn and Daryl go but everyone else is told to stay back and Carol says why aren't we all looking for her?

I think I would go anyway, but the writers needed the guys to lose her, and the barn reveal, etc. This show is claimed to be character driven but it is plot driven and characters do things completely out of character if the writers or showrunners or Robert KIrkman get a whim (or a bug up their asses).

WItness Glenn, Andrea, Tyreese, etc. all suddenly make choices they would never have made before; those choices can't be attributed to the ZA either. TPTB have decided on a big set-piece they need for upcoming episodes and suddenly a person behaves completely inexplicably.

[Morrigan2575]

Carol and company also went out at least 1 or 2 times together, one was when they were walking through the woods and Maggie comes riding up to tell Lori about Carol being shot and at the farm.  The other time was when they all ended up at the church together, when Shane was fixing to leave and Andrea wanted to go with him (I think that's the same event).  

 

After they got to the farm Carol didn't go looking for Sophia (that I can recall) but IIRC Carol seemed to have accepted Sophia's death long before the others (at the church).  I remember Rick and Shane arguing, I think just about everyone but Rick and Darryl knew Sophia was dead, they (except Shane and maybe Carol) couldn't accept it.  

 

I also got the feeling that Carol was pretty much resigned to her fate and Sophia's fate in S2.  I often thought it was tied to her history of being abused, she didn't/couldn't/wouldn't  fight/run when she was with Ed (always went back to him) and in S2 with Sophia she just gave up/resigned herself to Sophia's death (because she couldn't/wouldn't fight/search).

 

I also never got the impression that Carol was forcing others to search for her, in fact there was at least one time where she got yelled at for trying to get Darryl to stop searching.

 

I just always viewed Carol as a realist/defeatest, she didn't believe in hoping, that Sophia was alive and accepted early on that Sophia was dead and therefor gave up.  However, I understand that many fans do not share that view and many fans disliked Carol from S2 on.

Edited January 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[Ocean Chick]

Yes, Carol came from a background of knowing the worst things could and would happen to her, so she pretty much accepted that Sophia was dead early on.  She did go out with the group the next day to look for her, leading them to the church.  It was on the way back from the church that Maggie came for Lori.  Carol didn't want to leave the car jam that night, in case Sophia came back, which is why only Glenn and T-Dog went to the farm that night.  The next day both Andrea and Shane tried to assure Carol that Sophia was still alive, but she shut them both down - she knew the score by then.  And she told Daryl not to go out looking for Sophia after he got hurt, but Daryl wasn't going to give up hope - he needed to believe that she was still alive.  It was Daryl who kept bugging people to go out looking for Sophia, not Carol.  Carol just expected for life to keep stomping on her, as it had for the past who know how long.

 

Carol probably learned early in her marriage that you keep your tears and your grief to yourself, unless you wanted someone to "give you something to really cry about", so she didn't grieve in front of the group (or the audience).  Which led to a lot of the audience thinking she was cold and unloving.  She wasn't - she was just afraid to show her feelings.

[Morrigan2575]

Thanks for the clarification on the church/Maggie scenes. It's been awhile since I've watched these episodes.

[RedheadZombie]

I noticed something in Cherokee Rose that didn't really register before.  When Shane, Andrea, and Carol go back to the highway to check for Sophia, Andrea is very sweet and gentle, trying to give her hope, Carol cuts her off, and tells her she really doesn't need to hear it anymore.  Shane then says, "you never know, Carol", and Carol just holds her hand up to make him stop.

 

So after rejecting comfort from these two people, people that she surely has had much greater interaction with than Daryl, she's sitting in Dale's RV.  Daryl comes in with the Cherokee Rose, and tells her about the Trail of Tears, and how the Cherokee roses were to give the mothers strength and hope.  Carol doesn't cut him off with a hand gesture, or tell him she doesn't want to hear it.  She wiped her tears away and smiled.

 

It reminds me of how Rick wouldn't accept comfort from anyone after Lori died.  But when Carol was discovered alive, Rick went to her and allowed her to hold and comfort him.

 

[mightysparrow]

I noticed something in Cherokee Rose that didn't really register before.  When Shane, Andrea, and Carol go back to the highway to check for Sophia, Andrea is very sweet and gentle, trying to give her hope, Carol cuts her off, and tells her she really doesn't need to hear it anymore.  Shane then says, "you never know, Carol", and Carol just holds her hand up to make him stop.

 

So after rejecting comfort from these two people, people that she surely has had much greater interaction with than Daryl, she's sitting in Dale's RV.  Daryl comes in with the Cherokee Rose, and tells her about the Trail of Tears, and how the Cherokee roses were to give the mothers strength and hope.  Carol doesn't cut him off with a hand gesture, or tell him she doesn't want to hear it.  She wiped her tears away and smiled.

 

It reminds me of how Rick wouldn't accept comfort from anyone after Lori died.  But when Carol was discovered alive, Rick went to her and allowed her to hold and comfort him.

 

The scene with Andrea and Shane is one of many reasons why I don't like Carol. All of these people busted their asses to help find her child, putting way more effort than she did even when they didn't think it was worth it. And she didn't even have the decency to be grateful. But it's a different story with the redneck she thinks she can work.

 

Carol plays the poor little victim, but in my opinion she's never had a problem playing the people (or children) she wants to play if she sees an advantage in it.

Edited February 2, 2015 by mightysparrow

[BrokenRemote]

I think the difference to me is that Carol wasn't playing the victim at first, she was the victim.  And in the past couple seasons I haven't seen her doing anything that I'd call playing the victim, or playing other people.  She did things that I may not agree with, but I never saw her try to make anyone feel sorry for her in order to excuse what she did.  Do you have scenes or actions in mind that would help illustrate that?

[NoWillToResist]

It reminds me of how Rick wouldn't accept comfort from anyone after Lori died.  But when Carol was discovered alive, Rick went to her and allowed her to hold and comfort him.

 

That 'reunion' scene remains one of my favourites of the series. MMB's facial expressions and body language when she saw Judith - and no Lori - spoke volumes. You could practically SEE when she made the connection and realized that Lori was dead. The comforting embrace between Rick and Carol was so emotional.

 

You could see her lips say "I'm so sorry" (or words to that effect) just before they practically collapse into each other. She had clearly bonded with a pregnant Lori during the fast-forward between seasons (3 and 4?) so they both felt the loss. .

[mightysparrow]

I think the difference to me is that Carol wasn't playing the victim at first, she was the victim.  And in the past couple seasons I haven't seen her doing anything that I'd call playing the victim, or playing other people.  She did things that I may not agree with, but I never saw her try to make anyone feel sorry for her in order to excuse what she did.  Do you have scenes or actions in mind that would help illustrate that?

 

I would say any scene that Carol tried to turn Daryl against Rick for starters.  Or the scenes when she sneered at Rick giving up the leadership role to be a father to his children. I would think that Carol would be the FIRST person to understand Rick's decision, but not St. Carol.

 

I think it's interesting that Carol is so untouchable. You can say anything about Beth without any 'proof' to back it up and it's fine. I didn't like Beth but I think I dislike Carol even more because she's held up as this symbol of abused middle aged women everywhere. I don't see anything heroic in a victim becoming  victimizer, but that's me.

Edited February 2, 2015 by mightysparrow

[Ocean Chick]

Since I agreed with Carol that Rick's decision to hold back the vital information that everyone turns into a walker, no matter how they die, I can't say that that means she was a whining victim in that scene.  If Dale, for example, had died of a heart attack while everyone was sleeping in their tents at the farm, it could have been a tragedy in the making.  How does that make her "play the victim"?  Maggie was also urging Glenn and Hershel to maybe go it alone in that same scene as well - does that make her "play the victim"?

 

Can you name any other scenes where Carol tried to turn Daryl against Rick?

 

And Carol didn't have a problem with Rick being a farmer.  She only had a problem with him being only a farmer.  He was hiding his head in his pea patch and ignoring the danger on the doorstep.  She was trying to get him to realize that this new world means they all have to wear a lot of hats.  She cooked for the camp, but she also sat on the council.  Daryl hunted food, but he also hunted the Gov for a while and went on supply runs and sat on the council.  Hershel played doctor, but he was also teaching others (Rick) how to farm and sat on the council.  I'm still not seeing where her trying to get Rick to realize that he still has to protect his kids makes her "play the victim".

[RedheadZombie]

I would say any scene that Carol tried to turn Daryl against Rick for starters.  Or the scenes when she sneered at Rick giving up the leadership role to be a father to his children. I would think that Carol would be the FIRST person to understand Rick's decision, but not St. Carol.

 

If you're referring to the season two finale, I think that's always been open to interpretation.  To me, Carol clearly puts herself in the "holding Daryl back" category along with Rick, and she's encouraging Daryl to leave everyone (including herself) to better his odds of survival.

 

I think everyone felt betrayed by Rick in that moment, and the fact that he actually killed one of them (he didn't really share why at that time), and blamed it on the rest of them ...... it was not one of Rick's finer moments.

 

@mightysparrow, you owe me no explanation for your hate of Carol.  I'm just incapable of not defending her.  I'm the same way with Tyreese.

[NoWillToResist]

I think it's interesting that Carol is so untouchable. You can say anything about Beth without any 'proof' to back it up and it's fine.

 

I'm not sure that I'd agree that Carol is "untouchable". I think perhaps TPTB have done a better job on Carol's back story, making one more sympathetic and forgiving of Carol's fuck ups.

 

Another thing which probably helps a lot is that (IMO) Carol is played by a much stronger actress.

 

I think criticism of any character should be able to be supported by canon reasons. That said, having spent far more time than I should in the Beth thread, I found that most of the criticism was about the actress, rather than the character. Unless one counts "singing"; that came up a lot.

[mightysparrow]

If you're referring to the season two finale, I think that's always been open to interpretation.  To me, Carol clearly puts herself in the "holding Daryl back" category along with Rick, and she's encouraging Daryl to leave everyone (including herself) to better his odds of survival.

 

I think everyone felt betrayed by Rick in that moment, and the fact that he actually killed one of them (he didn't really share why at that time), and blamed it on the rest of them ...... it was not one of Rick's finer moments.

 

@mightysparrow, you owe me no explanation for your hate of Carol.  I'm just incapable of not defending her.  I'm the same way with Tyreese.

 

Oh, I wasn't explaining why I dislike Carol. I was pointing out that criticism of Carol is usually followed by at least one person (sometimes more) demanding that you explain why you're criticizing Carol. There seem to be a lot of people who are incapable of not defending her.

 

I agree that the examples I provided are open to interpretation. Obviously, I've interpreted them differently.

Edited February 3, 2015 by mightysparrow

[mightysparrow]

I'm not sure that I'd agree that Carol is "untouchable". I think perhaps TPTB have done a better job on Carol's back story, making one more sympathetic and forgiving of Carol's fuck ups.

 

Another thing which probably helps a lot is that (IMO) Carol is played by a much stronger actress.

 

I think criticism of any character should be able to be supported by canon reasons. That said, having spent far more time than I should in the Beth thread, I found that most of the criticism was about the actress, rather than the character. Unless one counts "singing"; that came up a lot.

 

I don't know if killing two sick people and burning their bodies is a 'fuckup' but I guess mileage varies.  I also have to admit that I'm not a member of the MMB fan club either. I think she's a good actress but also over-rated.  Saying she's stronger than EK is like saying she breathes air, in my opinion.

[ghoulina]

I think the difference to me is that Carol wasn't playing the victim at first, she was the victim.  And in the past couple seasons I haven't seen her doing anything that I'd call playing the victim, or playing other people.

 

Agreed. Carol was systematically abused for years and years. She was a broken woman. I can almost understand her brushing off people who try to help her. I wonder how many times someone tried to help her get out of her relationship and it made her feel ashamed, uncomfortable, scared - so she lashed out at them, told them to get lost? After awhile, things like that become ingrained. I see a lot of that in how she dealt with people the first few seasons. I think the difference with Daryl is that he came from a similar background. She saw something of herself in him. He wasn't the happy, normal person offering pity and charity. He was just as broken as she was and he didn't make her feel ashamed. 

 

Since I agreed with Carol that Rick's decision to hold back the vital information that everyone turns into a walker, no matter how they die, I can't say that that means she was a whining victim in that scene.  If Dale, for example, had died of a heart attack while everyone was sleeping in their tents at the farm, it could have been a tragedy in the making.  How does that make her "play the victim"?  Maggie was also urging Glenn and Hershel to maybe go it alone in that same scene as well - does that make her "play the victim"?

 

Right. Carol wasn't the only one questioning Rick's leadership at that point. I've been an avid Rick apologist, but that was one BIG point of contention I had with him. It was absolutely not okay that he didn't tell people about what Jenner had whispered to him. So what if it was bogus? Better to be prepared and not have to do anything than be caught totally unawares if, say, Beth did cut her wrists wide opened, turned, and chomped her way through the entire house. It was a completely negligent and unnecessary thing to do. And you have to remember, these people had only been together a few weeks at this point. They didn't have that built in loyalty and trust yet, especially not Maggie. I do not blame anyone, after all they had been through, for doubting Rick that evening. 

[NoWillToResist]

I don't know if killing two sick people and burning their bodies is a 'fuckup' but I guess mileage varies. 

 

Well, I call it a 'fuck up' because her actions were not done maliciously. She thought she was doing the right thing but WAY over-reached...hence my use of 'fuck up'. "Gaffe" didn't get across the severity of the action, IMO. :D

[mightysparrow]

Well, I call it a 'fuck up' because her actions were not done maliciously. She thought she was doing the right thing but WAY over-reached...hence my use of 'fuck up'. "Gaffe" didn't get across the severity of the action, IMO. :D

 

I don't know.  Killing two innocent sick people in their beds, dragging their bodies through the prison leaving a trail of infected blood, burning those bodies and then silently standing by while two guys beat each other to a pulp over something you did might be a bit malicious. Especially when the council had decided that the sick would be quarantined, not murdered and other people were risking their lives trying to help the sick. I think that's pretty lowdown, cowardly and yes, malicious.  I'm not ready to give Carol the benefit of the doubt when nothing she's said or done indicates that she feels a  shred of remorse other than remorse over being caught.

 

Throw in bitching about a grieving man taking a minute to get over the death of his wife (at the hands of his son) and I'd say Carol was a bit of a nasty piece of work.

Edited February 4, 2015 by mightysparrow

[nodorothyparker]

Since I agreed with Carol that Rick's decision to hold back the vital information that everyone turns into a walker, no matter how they die, I can't say that that means she was a whining victim in that scene.  If Dale, for example, had died of a heart attack while everyone was sleeping in their tents at the farm, it could have been a tragedy in the making.  How does that make her "play the victim"?  Maggie was also urging Glenn and Hershel to maybe go it alone in that same scene as well - does that make her "play the victim"?

...

And Carol didn't have a problem with Rick being a farmer.  She only had a problem with him being only a farmer.  He was hiding his head in his pea patch and ignoring the danger on the doorstep.  She was trying to get him to realize that this new world means they all have to wear a lot of hats.  She cooked for the camp, but she also sat on the council.  Daryl hunted food, but he also hunted the Gov for a while and went on supply runs and sat on the council.  Hershel played doctor, but he was also teaching others (Rick) how to farm and sat on the council.  I'm still not seeing where her trying to get Rick to realize that he still has to protect his kids makes her "play the victim".

 

This has always been my take on both situations too.  Sure, Rick didn't know if what Jenner told him was true or whether he was just truly off his rocker, but the fact that there was even a possibility that any of them might come back if they died was surely worth a mention.  I could hardly blame more than one traumatized survivor of the farm for being angry about it.  Did Rick ever consider what would have happened if Carl had died and then turned while they were all sitting around his bedside wringing their hands over the meaning of life?  I think we all know Lori well enough to make an educated guess that she never would have gotten over it and we never ever ever would have heard the end of it.

 

Rick going off to play farmer made more sense to me after we got the flashbacks in the season 4 finale of Herschel urging him to put his guns away, but I could also see Carol's point that the danger didn't stop just because he decided to ignore it.  The cold open for 4 of him digging in the dirt and listening to his ipod while he paid no attention to the growing herd shaking the fences was a great illustration of that.

 

Rick's a great character and I enjoy a lot of what they do with him, but he's not infallible and doesn't always make the greatest decisions either.  I don't have an issue with anyone else, particularly Carol who's often very parallel to him characterwise, calling him on that.  Not everyone's going to be an automatic yes man like Daryl is about 95 percent of the time.

Edited February 4, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[NoWillToResist]

I don't know.  Killing two innocent sick people in their beds, dragging their bodies through the prison leaving a trail of infected blood, burning those bodies and then silently standing by while two guys beat each other to a pulp over something you did might be a bit malicious. Especially when the council had decided that the sick would be quarantined, not murdered and other people were risking their lives trying to help the sick. I think that's pretty lowdown, cowardly and yes, malicious.  I'm not ready to give Carol the benefit of the doubt when nothing she's said or done indicates that she feels a  shred of remorse other than remorse over being caught.

 

I said it wasn't malicious because she killed K&D in an - IMO - misguided attempt at stopping the epidemic.

 

She did tell Rick that she didn't like what she did, but she'd come to accept it...probably because it's not like her actions could be undone by that point.

[NurseGiGi]

I didn't care much for Carol by the end of season 2.  She made disparaging comments about Rick more than once during the Sophia hunt and then when she acted the way she did in the season finale it was the nail in the coffin for me.  Color me surprised when her character did a 180 in season 3 and I started liking her.  She's now become one of my favorite characters because I think the writers have done a good job in showing how she has evolved and grown.  Also, it doesn't hurt that MMB is a good actress and has played the character with subtlety instead of going OTT.

[CatMomma]

I said it wasn't malicious because she killed K&D in an - IMO - misguided attempt at stopping the epidemic.

 

She did tell Rick that she didn't like what she did, but she'd come to accept it...probably because it's not like her actions could be undone by that point.

 

That's the way I viewed it as well. I think she handled it in the wrong way, but she didn't do it because she was a cold blooded murderer. She felt like she was protecting the group. It was no different than when Rick, Michonne, and Carl ignored backpack guy, Rick shot the guys in the bar, and Michonne killed the hermit who came into his home yelling and drawing walkers.  Most of the gangs hands aren't clean, but they have killed people who could arguably be innocent, to protect the family.

 

It was obvious that Carol felt terrible. This was made very clear in "The Grove".  She was ready to let Tyrese kill her. Those aren't the actions of a person devoid of guilt.

 

ETA: I never thought the guys in the bar were innocent, but Rick did shoot them because he had a feeling, not actual proof.

Edited February 5, 2015 by CatMomma

[CletusMusashi]

I think that's an interesting point.

Rick was at his best and sanest when he thought the ZA was only a temporary issue. Rick was a good honest guy who believed firmly in law and order, because in his experience most serious problems could be solved externally, once authority showed up.

Carol, by comparison, had never settled on that particular faith, and eventually decided that you had to solve your own problems, or at least the problems of those close to you. 

Rick can, when the mood strikes him, be just as ruthless as Carol, but he still has a weird naive streak where, no matter how much you think he's progressed as a character, he'll suddenly be taking a baby's advice about whether or not to help Abraham follow Eugene. Carol is never as naive as Rick is sometimes.

This post has been approved by The Georgia 'Tatorial Committee to Elect Carol Peletier.

Edited February 5, 2015 by CletusMusashi

[Nashville]

Rick can, when the mood strikes him, be just as ruthless as Carol, but he still has a weird naive streak where, no matter how much you think he's progressed as a character, he'll suddenly be taking a baby's advice about whether or not to help Abraham follow Eugene. Carol is never as naive as Rick is sometimes.

Insofar as I didn't see either Rick or Judith with a steno pad taking minutes, I doubt it truly qualifies as a consultative meeting.

In that moment, he wasn't Deputy Rick, or Fearless Leader Rick - he was simply a dad playing with his kid. That's neither naive nor insane, IMHO. :)

Edited February 5, 2015 by Nashville

[kikismom]

 It was no different than when Rick, Michonne, and Carl ignored backpack guy, Rick shot the guys in the bar, and Michonne killed the hermit who came into his home yelling and drawing walkers.  Most of the gangs hands aren't clean

Word.

Add Eyeglasses Guy.

[bosawks]

I really do love Carol but I'm starting to get a little pissed that she has a better haircut in the Zombie Apocalypse than I ever have............

[walnutqueen]

I really do love Carol but I'm starting to get a little pissed that she has a better haircut in the Zombie Apocalypse than I ever have............

 

I covet her hair - cut and color.  Wish I had the face (and the hair) to pull it off.  :-)

[nodorothyparker]

I just want to know why my hair doesn't look that good when I let my gray grow out.

[walnutqueen]

I just want to know why my hair doesn't look that good when I let my gray grow out.

 

It does to me, nodorothyparker.   ;-)

 

I love grey, salt & pepper and snowy white hair; alas, I come from a long line of women who barely get a few greys when they're in their 80s - 90s.  :-(

[NoWillToResist]

 Carol is never as naive as Rick is sometimes.

 

I suspect that any naivete Carol had disappeared pretty damned quick in her marriage to Ed. IMO, she would have developed a very strong sense of pragmatism and caution.

 

I too love Carol's hair. I always appreciated that she had it short and I'm glad they appear to be keeping it that way but I ADORE how they've let her grow it out just a teensy bit. It's still really short but it is just so flattering on her; the little bit of volume really softens her look. Throw in the killer blue eyes and I'm just little awe-struck...

[CatMomma]

I suspect that any naivete Carol had disappeared pretty damned quick in her marriage to Ed. IMO, she would have developed a very strong sense of pragmatism and caution.

 

I too love Carol's hair. I always appreciated that she had it short and I'm glad they appear to be keeping it that way but I ADORE how they've let her grow it out just a teensy bit. It's still really short but it is just so flattering on her; the little bit of volume really softens her look. Throw in the killer blue eyes and I'm just little awe-struck...

 

I love her hair.  It really makes her look youthful and I think it matches her evolution.  When she had the buzz cut, she looked waifish and vulnerable.  As it's grown out, she looks a bit more healthy and stronger.  Plus, I LOVE that MMB has not died her hair.  She is gray and unapologetic.

 

Contrast that with NR's hair, which they darkened to match the darkness of his character (huh?). I never bought that as an excuse.  I think they tried, unsuccessfully, to make him look more youthful.  Instead, it just makes him look about 10 years older.

[CletusMusashi]

I'll take the minority opinion and say that, while I do not consider Carol an unattractive woman, I do not think her haircut looks good. However, it makes a lot more sense in that environment than a lot of the doos that do look good. To me it looks like she just carries a pair of scissors around with her and whenever a section of her scalp gets all caked up with zombie guts (which is probably about five times a day when you're as badass as Carol,) she cuts the worst of it out. How it all ends up in Rick's hair after that, I haven't quite figured out yet.

[ghoulina]

I LOVE her short hair. I was a punkrocker in high school and sported all manner of odd haircuts, including shaving my head. So I've always been partial to women with short hair, IF they can carry it. And MM can, IMO. I wasn't familiar with her when I started watching this show, so I Googled her. I was curious to see if she'd always had short hair. I came across several pictures of her with longer hair, and I decided she absolutely looked better with it shorn. I prefer it a tad longer, though, the way she has it now. It's softer and wispy and really brings out her beautiful eyes. Yea, I have a bit of a lady crush on MM, I'll admit it.

[walnutqueen]

I LOVE her short hair. I was a punkrocker in high school and sported all manner of odd haircuts, including shaving my head. So I've always been partial to women with short hair, IF they can carry it. And MM can, IMO. I wasn't familiar with her when I started watching this show, so I Googled her. I was curious to see if she'd always had short hair. I came across several pictures of her with longer hair, and I decided she absolutely looked better with it shorn. I prefer it a tad longer, though, the way she has it now. It's softer and wispy and really brings out her beautiful eyes. Yea, I have a bit of a lady crush on MM, I'll admit it.

 

I have a huge lady crush on her myself, ghoulina.  She's just beautiful, to me.  :-)

[CatMomma]

I LOVE her short hair. I was a punkrocker in high school and sported all manner of odd haircuts, including shaving my head. So I've always been partial to women with short hair, IF they can carry it. And MM can, IMO. I wasn't familiar with her when I started watching this show, so I Googled her. I was curious to see if she'd always had short hair. I came across several pictures of her with longer hair, and I decided she absolutely looked better with it shorn. I prefer it a tad longer, though, the way she has it now. It's softer and wispy and really brings out her beautiful eyes. Yea, I have a bit of a lady crush on MM, I'll admit it.

 

A person has to have a certain type of bone structure to pull off that type of cut and not many women have it.  I did see a still of her from an ep of Dawson's Creek. She had longer hair and she looked a bit plain.  Much better with the short hair.

 

Actually, I'm really jealous of women who can wear their hair short like MM. I've always wanted really short hair, but every time I have tried, my head looks like an over inflated balloon on a skinny body. Not a good look.

[Nashville]

In Season 1, I always assumed TPTB gave Carol a Dachau-style haircut to emphasize her portrayal as a victim of her abusive husband Ed. As the seasons have progressed (on TV, sure as hell not in the show) - less victim, more hair.

[ghoulina]

I can get on board with that, Nashville. I definitely did not see her original short hair as her choice. I always assumed that Ed forced her to look the way she did, to make her unattractive to other men. 

[CatMomma]

I think that's an interesting point.

Rick was at his best and sanest when he thought the ZA was only a temporary issue. Rick was a good honest guy who believed firmly in law and order, because in his experience most serious problems could be solved externally, once authority showed up.

Carol, by comparison, had never settled on that particular faith, and eventually decided that you had to solve your own problems, or at least the problems of those close to you. 

Rick can, when the mood strikes him, be just as ruthless as Carol, but he still has a weird naive streak where, no matter how much you think he's progressed as a character, he'll suddenly be taking a baby's advice about whether or not to help Abraham follow Eugene. Carol is never as naive as Rick is sometimes.

This post has been approved by The Georgia 'Tatorial Committee to Elect Carol Peletier.

This is such an awesome point when it comes to Rick.  He will do what needs to be done, yet seems to hold on to his own humanity when it comes to other's actions. When he is angry or believes he is right, he justifies his actions, yet has no problem judging those who do the same. 

 

It drove me nuts that his version of what Carol did was cold blooded murder.  He should know better. Carol stood by him, even when he made questionable decisions.  Just like Daryl said. "That's her, but that's not her."  Rick was okay with Merle sticking around, but sent Carol off on her own.  I get it.  In order for Carol to be a badass, she had to survive on her own. It served the story.  But it made Rick look horrible.  

[NoWillToResist]

Is it my imagination or is Carol starting to be bad luck to those who are close with her? :)

 

Her husband died, her daughter died, her pregnant buddy Lori died, her buddy Andrea died, her two young charges died, her intended rescuee and co-babysitter Beth died, and now her other co-babysitter Tyrese died. Good lord, that's a hell of a body count. Look out Daryl! ;)

[Pete Martell]

This is such an awesome point when it comes to Rick.  He will do what needs to be done, yet seems to hold on to his own humanity when it comes to other's actions. When he is angry or believes he is right, he justifies his actions, yet has no problem judging those who do the same. 

 

It drove me nuts that his version of what Carol did was cold blooded murder.  He should know better. Carol stood by him, even when he made questionable decisions.  Just like Daryl said. "That's her, but that's not her."  Rick was okay with Merle sticking around, but sent Carol off on her own.  I get it.  In order for Carol to be a badass, she had to survive on her own. It served the story.  But it made Rick look horrible.  

 

Carol wanted the group to have another leader, and said as much at the end of season 2. She only went along with Rick at that point because he said she could like it or lump it, and no one wanted to go with her.

 

I'd say Carol and Rick are both good people who sometimes make bad decisions, and just try to live with those decisions as best they can. They also both veered too far into being completely hard and cold, and also had to live with that. 

 

The characters have a lot in common, which is why I wish they had more interaction, especially this season.

[NoWillToResist]

The characters have a lot in common, which is why I wish they had more interaction, especially this season.

 

I REALLY want to get Rick and Carol back to their pre-Karen/David closeness at the prison. I guess most of their bonding happened when Carol stepped up to help a pregnant Lori while she and Rick were estranged. I liked how he appreciated all she had done (and was continuing to do) for Judith and the group in general, I loved how he supported and comforted her when Daryl left with Merle.

 

And their hug after Terminus? *sniff* :)

[candall]

I just keep thinking that if Carol's plan had worked and the whole epidemic had been thwarted, no one would have realized it and the focus would have turned to hunting down the murderer in their midst.

 

She really did risk a lot to save the others.

*************

 

Superficial sidenote:  I have Carol hair and it's wonderful.  I can't believe I spent my whole life with hair down around my shoulderblades when I could have had this.  Two minutes to wash, finger fluff and air dry; soft like Carol or fun spiky with an extra thirty seconds for a spurk of mousse.   Cut if off, ladies, you'll love it.  And if you don't, well, it's a renewable resource.

[Portia]

I would do the Carol cut if I could; alas, my head is funny-shaped and my ears stick out! I have a sister in her mid-50s who rocks a gray Carol cut; said sis is also very trim and fit, and from time to time someone tells her she reminds them of a certain zombie fighter. (Funnily enough, one of her daughters gets stopped by strangers on the street because of her uncanny resemblance to Lauren Cohan.)

[CletusMusashi]

That family must have a terrible priest.

[eejm]

Whoa.  Whoa, whoa, whoa.

 

So Carol is playing all meek Susie homemaker, pretending that she misses that poor ol' big lug Ed so she can have a bit of an edge in Alexandria?

 

Nicely done, Carol "Machiavelli" Peletier...

[ghoulina]

Mmmmhmmm. That is why Carol continues to be my favorite. She instinctively knew how to play it, as soon as they stepped inside the gate. She was cracking me up tonight.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Carol kicks ass.  She's a wonderful multi-tasker.   Not only can she teach kids to read and kill walkers, she can make (& execute) the hard calls, Daryl's hen mother, and now add acting to her repetoire.

 

She totally nailed the "aw shucks" routine; from the very beginning.  Loved her expressions while taking the guns off.  "This is so big and heavy.  I don't like touching it.  Glad that's over."

[CletusMusashi]

So does anybody else think Gun Cart Girl was making eyes at her?