S01.E05: The Alamo

[proserpina65]

On ‎11‎/‎05‎/‎2016 at 9:33 PM, Terrafamilia said:

Hmm, they bust through the floor to get to a structure, the aqueduct, underneath. Does this mean the Alamo actually has a sort of basement like thing, kinda? Paging Mr. Herman.

Time to run and duck...

It did when the rabid mutant chupacabras were invading it.

[iMonrey]

Quote

If he is her father or her son, why doesn't he just say so?  Probably because they are saving it for the season finale "shocking reveal", but it would save everyone a lot of time and therefore there would be no show.  "Lucy, I'm your son.  Everything I am doing, it is to preserve your timeline and future.  Please call off your dogs.  Toodles."

If he's her son I can see why he wouldn't want to tell her that. Anything he does could potentially prevent her from having him, thus wiping himself out of existence. 

If he's her father, it really doesn't make any sense. Plus, like I said before, he's clearly been to the future if he's not actually from there since he has this diary she has yet to write. How did he get that if he's her father?

I think the whole father thing is a red herring because there's apparently this mystery about her father so we're meant to go "Ooh ooh - he must be her father!" but - God willing - it can't be that simple. Her father is more likely someone connected to Rittenhouse and someone Flynn is actively working against.

Edited November 9, 2016 by iMonrey

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

...If he's her father, it really doesn't make any sense. Plus, like I said before, he's clearly been to the future if he's not actually from there since he has this diary she has yet to write. How did he get that if he's her father?...

When he tells her she hasn't written it yet, couldn't that mean that she will have written it in the past once he achieves his objective (whatever it is) of manipulating past, current, and future events?

If he's her father or son, he would just have to travel to a moment when she was out at the grocery store, swipe the journal, and then leave that time and place. He might have been motivated to do this when he realized that some event change (due to either time traveling crew) had caused her to not write the journal — or at least to have left out important observations.

[legaleagle53]

43 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

If he's her father or son, he would just have to travel to a moment when she was out at the grocery store, swipe the journal, and then leave that time and place. He might have been motivated to do this when he realized that some event change (due to either time traveling crew) had caused her to not write the journal — or at least to have left out important observations.

Answering this in the Paradoxes thread (I didn't create that thread just to see my word in print!).

[CeeBeeGee]

On 11/1/2016 at 10:50 AM, Writing Wrongs said:

The main character, Lucy, is so bland. I wish she was a little more charismatic or something.

Huh, I really like her. I think the actor is terrific.

[Clanstarling]

On 11/1/2016 at 5:43 AM, sjohnson said:

As I understand it, he gave the leg its own burial. Which is apropos of nothing, yet seems like it should be noted.

It's these little details that make history entertaining.

On 11/1/2016 at 7:07 AM, JackONeill said:

Yes, Rufus is the only person who can "drive" the time machine? Well, if the time machine is SO damned important, why hasn't someone else been taught? What happens if Rufus has a heart attack, or falls off a ladder and breaks his neck? That seems really shortsided on someone's part. Address it, people. Show someone else learning or something

I believe Rufus invented the machine - but your point is valid. They should indeed be training people, making strategies and planning rather than reacting. Maybe get a few more historians with different areas of expertise involved. It is tiresome that Lucy is the know it all. Given Wyatt's background, I would think he'd have had a better change of recreating Travis' letter than her.

On 11/1/2016 at 6:53 PM, dubbel zout said:

That cracked me up. When she was writing and wadding up paper, I was thinking, "Paper was a luxury back then, Lucy!"

Whereas I, having used fountain pens before, looked at that large blob of ink and thought "that'll will never dry enough to fold the letter up - and blotting will be a disaster"

On 11/3/2016 at 8:53 PM, possibilities said:

My current theory is that the show isn't making sense.

Seconded!

On one last note - at least this time Wyatt's scruffy face was appropriate.

[smiley13]

On 11/3/2016 at 8:53 AM, crazycatlady58 said:

Well as a third  generation  Texan I am sorry  to hear all the hate of Texas.

It is strange.  Texas is a very cool state.  So much to see and do there.

[Netfoot]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

They should indeed be training people, making strategies and planning rather than reacting. Maybe get a few more historians with different areas of expertise involved. It is tiresome that Lucy is the know it all.

They could have a team of agents, and select the three best suited for each mission.  Or select two, and bring in a guest with special knowledge.  Or something.  Anything other than Lucy "Deadpan" McFrump every episode.

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

They should indeed be training people, making strategies and planning rather than reacting.

And maybe even building another time machine, as that prototype looks and sounds like it is about to go off the rails every time.

[green]

2 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

And maybe even building another time machine, as that prototype looks and sounds like it is about to go off the rails every time.

Again it is only a week into all these adventures. 

Rufus is the only person qualified on his side of things to train anyone and he is needed to run off to stop Flynn.  Anthony is the only one qualified to build another time machine and he is Flynn's willing pilot.  Also a time machine could take months or a year or more to build if they had someone anywhere near Anthony's skill level.  Remember Rufus is a software coder, not an engineer.

Sorry but it amazes me that person after person thinks a new pilot is needed but it has only been one week in the show's timeline and Rufus can't be spared to train anyone right now. 

And if piloting a time machine is as complicated as something like astronaut training it could take months.  By then Flynn would have done his final whatever and it would be too late.  Because it is most crucial to stop Flynn immediately.  But Wyatt can't shoot straight so Flynn gets away again and again and each journey back they hope is their last one but to make any attempt to stop Flynn they need Rufus at the helm.

Rufus is always only back less than 24 hours before the next attempt.  He had to sleep and eat in that time.  Then he is needed to try and stop Flynn once again.  So no they simply cannot train another pilot.  It is totally impossible at this point.

[Netfoot]

9 minutes ago, green said:

Sorry but it amazes me that person after person thinks a new pilot is needed but it has only been one week in the show's timeline and Rufus can't be spared to train anyone right now. [...] So no they simply cannot train another pilot.  It is totally impossible at this point.

Never the less, Rufus is the only person who knows how to build and operate the time machine.  Yet they risk his life every trip, sending him back, essentially, without any self-preservation skills.  (Has there been an episode so far where his race has failed to place him in extra jeopardy?)  His muscle consists of Wyatt "Deadeye" Logan, who can't hit a barn door.

They seriously need some sort of a disaster recovery plan, because if Rufus gets shot by a Nazi, or strung up by the Klan, they are royally screwed. 

[smiley13]

51 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

They seriously need some sort of a disaster recovery plan, because if Rufus gets shot by a Nazi, or strung up by the Klan, they are royally screwed. 

They have not gone anywhere for Rufus to be in any more danger than anyone else.  The Nazi's would have shot all of them.  I don't think the Klan has been around at all in any of the locations either.

Edited November 12, 2016 by smiley13

[Netfoot]

7 minutes ago, smiley13 said:

They have not gone anywhere for Rufus to be in any more danger than anyone else.

Well in that case, they can wait for him to get killed, and then try to train a replacement!  

I mean, he is unique and irreplaceable.  Unlike the other two idiots.  So, why do they insist on risking him, trip after trip?

[LoneHaranguer]

1 hour ago, green said:

Sorry but it amazes me that person after person thinks a new pilot is needed but it has only been one week in the show's timeline and Rufus can't be spared to train anyone right now.

Shouldn't Wyatt and Lucy know by now? There have been companions on Doctor Who who've been able to figure out the basics of flying the TARDIS, even though its controls are about as quirky as you can get, without anyone explaining, and that's what Rufus should have been doing on their trips. Maybe somebody's afraid that if Rufus stays home, the team that goes will screw up and wipe him out of existence.

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, smiley13 said:

They have not gone anywhere for Rufus to be in any more danger than anyone else.  The Nazi's would have shot all of them.  I don't think the Klan has been around at all in any of the locations either.

Not yet, it hasn't.  But send the team to the Reconstruction-era South or to Mississippi or Alabama from about 1954 on, and you'd better believe the KKK would be there -- and Rufus would be their No. 1 target.  As it was, he almost got the crap beaten out of him in that jail cell in 1937 New Jersey for mouthing off to the cops (which I daresay would never have happened to Wyatt or Lucy).   As he said in the pilot, there's NO period in America's history that's safe for him.

[green]

3 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Never the less, Rufus is the only person who knows how to build and operate the time machine.  Yet they risk his life every trip, sending him back, essentially, without any self-preservation skills.  (Has there been an episode so far where his race has failed to place him in extra jeopardy?)  His muscle consists of Wyatt "Deadeye" Logan, who can't hit a barn door.

They seriously need some sort of a disaster recovery plan, because if Rufus gets shot by a Nazi, or strung up by the Klan, they are royally screwed. 

Why do you think Rufus knows how to build a time machine.  Only Anthony does as far as I understand it.  Rufus is only a software coder.  An important job sure.  But again he is no engineer.

LoneHaranguer, why would Wyatt or Lucy know anything about piloting a time machine.  To use an analogy, Rufus is a highly skilled astronaut pilot and they are more like the payload specialists along for the ride.  When Timeless issues sonic screwdrivers to everyone then I'll buy it but they are trying to make this more a "real" (as far as a time travel show, haha) modern day thriller as opposed to fun and fantasy with a Time Lord.

[Netfoot]

4 minutes ago, green said:

Why do you think Rufus knows how to build a time machine.  Only Anthony does as far as I understand it.

My mistake.  I thought he was the only pilot, and the original designer/constructor as well.  I guess I had that part wrong.

[KaveDweller]

11 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

My mistake.  I thought he was the only pilot, and the original designer/constructor as well.  I guess I had that part wrong.

Rufus did say he helped invent the time machine. I assume he knows the basics in how to build one, along with Mason, Anthony, and any other high level people that work with them.

But I also assume building a time machine is a complicated thing and no one could just slap it together on their own. That's why Flynn had to steal one, instead of just getting Anthony to tell him how to make a new one.

[dargosmydaddy]

3 hours ago, smiley13 said:

They have not gone anywhere for Rufus to be in any more danger than anyone else.

No, but that's not the point. Wyatt is easily replaceable, as we've seen. Lucy, maybe a little less so since there seems to be some special snowflake reason she was picked, but she's still definitely replaceable. Rufus is literally the only person who is irreplaceable, and putting him in any kind of danger, even if it's equal to the danger of the other two, makes zero sense. Obviously it's necessary from a narrative perspective, since they don't want to sideline the character by having him sit in the spaceship the whole time, but... Maybe the pilot should just sit there and be a lesser character, and there could have been a third rider instead. Or at the very least having Lucy and Wyatt being ultra-protective of Rufus during missions would be both practical and an interesting story line. Instead we get no acknowledgement of it whatsoever. Obviously we as viewers know that the main three are going to make it through the season without irreversible harm done to them (since that's how network TV works), but it would be nice if the characters themselves didn't act like they know they'll be fine!

 

4 hours ago, green said:

Sorry but it amazes me that person after person thinks a new pilot is needed but it has only been one week in the show's timeline and Rufus can't be spared to train anyone right now. 

I don't find that amazing in the least, since as far as I remember, the show has never acknowledged this. I'm not doubting your math-- it makes sense to me-- but most viewers of the show probably aren't going to remember the timeline week to week. It would be very easy for them to slip in a line about exactly how little time has passed, to situate us as viewers.

And honestly, while training would probably have to be extensive and yeah, they don't have time for that, could they at least maybe have Rufus start writing down some kind of manual/ handbook/ something to acknowledge how screwed they'd be without him? Hmm, maybe a future episode could have Rufus staying behind in the shuttle to work on that...

Don't get me wrong, Rufus is my favorite character and I don't want to see him sidelined, but they could at least acknowledge how screwed they'd be if he died and show some small attempt at a back-up plan. Even if it was just him trying to teach Wyatt or Lucy a few things about the machine as they're traveling.

[shapeshifter]

8 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

...And honestly, while training would probably have to be extensive and yeah, they don't have time for that, could they at least maybe have Rufus start writing down some kind of manual/ handbook/ something to acknowledge how screwed they'd be without him? Hmm, maybe a future episode could have Rufus staying behind in the shuttle to work on that...

Don't get me wrong, Rufus is my favorite character and I don't want to see him sidelined, but they could at least acknowledge how screwed they'd be if he died and show some small attempt at a back-up plan. Even if it was just him trying to teach Wyatt or Lucy a few things about the machine as they're traveling.

Since this is a TV show and not reality, I figure that if the actor playing Rufus gets a better gig, they will kill off his character and have such a manual found that Rufus was working on, and maybe it will be revealed that Lucy or Wyatt had been informally apprenticed by Rufus in the art of flying time travel ships.

[smiley13]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Since this is a TV show and not reality, I figure that if the actor playing Rufus gets a better gig, they will kill off his character and have such a manual found that Rufus was working on, and maybe it will be revealed that Lucy or Wyatt had been informally apprenticed by Rufus in the art of flying time travel ships.

I think it is funny that there is so much attention on Rufus. 

[Raja]

8 hours ago, smiley13 said:

I think it is funny that there is so much attention on Rufus. 

Perhaps because unlike other light science fiction shows we have seen on USA or SyFy they have actually used the racist past and do not just wish it away moments after a minority character is met by other characters in the show. So the difference draws attention and comment.

[vibeology]

17 hours ago, Raja said:

Perhaps because unlike other light science fiction shows we have seen on USA or SyFy they have actually used the racist past and do not just wish it away moments after a minority character is met by other characters in the show. So the difference draws attention and comment.

Also, in a very small cast (three main characters) he's probably the most interesting and most original.

I think Lucy and Wyatt can get there and I assume there is some sort of twist coming with Lucy and her mysterious Dad that could move her into more interesting waters very quickly (I'm assuming by the end of November sweeps) but it hasn't happened yet. She's sure of everything she's doing. She's sure that protecting the past is right and she's sure that they have to bring her sister back. There's no doubt yet for her. Wyatt has had the occasional struggle with changing the past (saving the reporter, trying to save his wife) but it all comes from being really sure that saving lives is the right thing to do. He was even willing to follow orders and step away from this mission without too much of a fight.

Rufus has the struggle between the loyalty to his boss which has quickly turned into him being threatened to record vs his loyalty to his team. Some sort of personal moral struggle makes a character interesting. That, on top of the race issues Rufus deals with every time they go back, is why I think he's the most interesting for now.

[Netfoot]

1 hour ago, vibeology said:

...some sort of twist coming with Lucy and her mysterious Dad that could move her into more interesting waters very quickly...

If it were revealed she owned a pet gerbil it would move her into more interesting waters.  Honestly, that woman is dull!

[LoneHaranguer]

On 11/12/2016 at 9:16 PM, green said:

LoneHaranguer, why would Wyatt or Lucy know anything about piloting a time machine.  To use an analogy, Rufus is a highly skilled astronaut pilot and they are more like the payload specialists along for the ride. 

Being highly skilled just means that Rufus may be able to get everyone home if something goes wrong, like taking a bullet to the control panel. Ordinarily, the time machine should be easy to operate, and Wyatt and Lucy should have learned how, in case something were to happen to Rufus. Especially if they're going to keep going dangerous places like Nazi Germany and the Alamo.

[green]

38 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Being highly skilled just means that Rufus may be able to get everyone home if something goes wrong, like taking a bullet to the control panel. Ordinarily, the time machine should be easy to operate, and Wyatt and Lucy should have learned how, in case something were to happen to Rufus. Especially if they're going to keep going dangerous places like Nazi Germany and the Alamo.

I don't know.  It doesn't look easy.  They make it look like the cockpit of the shuttle or the old space capsules or even a 747 so I think they are trying to show set design wise that it is not at all easy to operate or learn.

[LoneHaranguer]

5 hours ago, green said:

I don't know.  It doesn't look easy.  They make it look like the cockpit of the shuttle or the old space capsules or even a 747 so I think they are trying to show set design wise that it is not at all easy to operate or learn.

Or, they're just going for an advanced-tech look. A 747 can land itself as long as weather conditions aren't too extreme, even if one engine is out, but it still needs all of those indicators and controls for when circumstances are beyond its programming and a fully trained pilot needs to take over. But, if Wyatt knew the basics of how to fly the eye, that would still leave the question of which is more important? That Rufus with his knowledge stay safe, or that he be with the team to get them all home if Wyatt got shot?

[green]

^  If Wyatt can't even shoot straight how can he fly a complicated piece of cutting edge technology?  There is no auto-pilot on a prototype time machine and it is given a techno look on the show to convey that it is indeed hard to pilot.  Also Rufus is needed to secretly tape record stuff so he is needed for two reasons.

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, green said:

If Wyatt can't even shoot straight how can he fly a complicated piece of cutting edge technology?

Wyatt can shoot straight unless he's aiming at Flynn, who is protected by Plot Armor. Wyatt's shot plenty of people and been quite efficient at doing so (there have even been discussions here about whether or not he should be shooting so many people in the past, lest he change history). It's just that when it's Flynn he's shooting at, something gets in the way that makes him miss or that keeps him from shooting. He's also pretty efficient at beating the crap out of anyone but Flynn. No one else assigned to the team would be any better at dealing with Flynn because of the Plot Armor. Bam-Bam would also fail miserably if they'd gone through with cutting Wyatt.

[green]

36 minutes ago, Shanna Marie said:

Wyatt can shoot straight unless he's aiming at Flynn, who is protected by Plot Armor. Wyatt's shot plenty of people and been quite efficient at doing so (there have even been discussions here about whether or not he should be shooting so many people in the past, lest he change history). It's just that when it's Flynn he's shooting at, something gets in the way that makes him miss or that keeps him from shooting. He's also pretty efficient at beating the crap out of anyone but Flynn. No one else assigned to the team would be any better at dealing with Flynn because of the Plot Armor. Bam-Bam would also fail miserably if they'd gone through with cutting Wyatt.

Thank you because you just made my point above.  Because that also means that no one will ever be smart or able enough to pilot the time machine other than Rufus thanks to Plot Armor.  Which was my whole point.  The writers made the time machine way too complicated for anyone to learn quickly if ever.

[Chas411]

Wyatt is getting slightly better but it really bugs me how much they're pushing him with Lucy. Every meaningful moment either has either been together or ends with the other overhearing. Poor Rufus is always such a third wheel.

[shapeshifter]

On January 19, 2017 at 3:22 PM, Chas411 said:

Wyatt is getting slightly better but it really bugs me how much they're pushing him with Lucy. Every meaningful moment either has either been together or ends with the other overhearing. Poor Rufus is always such a third wheel.

I know what you mean, but he's also like the third wheel on a tricycle/three-wheeled vehicle in that he's necessary for them to get anywhere.