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SilverStormm

Goliath

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I'm currently on episode 7.

Thornton is superb, let's just get that out of the way. We've seen his down-at-the-heels LA noirish character many times before -- yeah, yeah, we get it -- but still. Thornton makes him compulsively sympathetic and watchable even when delivering sometimes hacky dialog.

As viewers we saw the conspiracy against Billy being put in place so nothing was a mystery, but the fun was seeing him ducking and punching back. The show isn't fronting, from the title on down, that this is anything but an underdog redemption story. OF COURSE Bill's favorite movie is Hoosiers.

The supporting characters, including the dog, are fulfilling their minimum daily requirement of comedy and quirky heart. I especially love realtor/attorney Patty, who could easily have been an annoying throwaway part. William Hurt has fully settled into his old man creepiness (OMG the fucking clicker!).

The daughter sucked. I couldn't believe she was pissed at her dad after that crooked traffic stop when he was obviously being rousted, and she and continued to think the worst of him at every turn.

I thought this review brought up a good point highlighting the skills someone with David Kelley's TV expertise brings to a streaming series:

LA Times: "At its best, Goliath suggests the creative possibilities that arise when writers steeped in the broadcast television tradition are liberated to tell heavily serialized, character-driven, morally complicated stories without the arbitrary limitations imposed by networks."

I compared it in my head to Amazon's other new Woody Allen series, which seemed to mistakenly approach the task as making a 6-hour movie, and failed because of it.

I just wish Billy would put his convertible top up overnight in the parking lot! I do enjoy the randomness of his sleep apnea.

Is is possible they made Billy cruel and thoughtless to Marva on purpose to show how much of a jerk he is? She did excellent work for him and he was very dismissive.

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Glad someone else is watching this! I, too, am on episode 7. I have been enjoying it despite some eye-roll moments. I'm thinking/hoping that Lucy will get fully on board with Billy to bring down Cooperman and the firm. The clicker really confused me but I guess Cooperman uses it to get people to shut up? But it's not like he can't speak, so why does he need a non-verbal communication method? Is it a hold over from when he was injured and hospitalized? It's so bizarre.

Patty is a total weirdo in a good way, and her exasperation at everyone mispronouncing her name is hilarious. She's interesting because she's not like most female TV characters - who are usually a bit too pretty and perfect instead of being allowed to be weird and human like the male characters.  Michelle and Cassie are flawed but are still more like the usual stereotypes of female characters. Patty stands out as something different, for me.

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Hubs and I binged watched the first three. I agreed to watch it together so it might be weekend only viewing for me! I love Billy Bob and he does not disappoint. I agree its his typical role but I don't care. Normally I would say the story is moving too slow for me, but all the nuances make it ok for me.  All the supporting characters are perfect.   - That clicker though! 

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I was really enjoying the series but was quite disappointed by the finale. The various plot lines just sort of collapsed with a small hiss of air, including the court case. I hated how mean Billy was to Brittany. He showed zero compassion or understanding for the bind she was in, and he knew damned well she was depressed and beat down. Patty didn't have a history of friendship with Brittany, so I blame her less.

Arguing for jury nullification is a breech of ethics for attorneys. Maybe in Billy's head he thought he skirted that in his closing, but I didn't.

Still mad about how Marva was treated and left to sweat in the storage locker. Just not young, slim, or cute enough for his misogynistic majesty Billy, I guess.

I wonder if Maria Bello saw the entire script before she signed on, because that was one thankless, nothing role and character who only existed to react to others.

Even in the dim light, that was an impressive prosthetic (?) penis on William Hurt.

Are we supposed to think that Billy drowned himself? The dog should have dragged him out of the water. He fed you for years!

Edited by lordonia
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45 minutes ago, lordonia said:

Still mad about how Marva was treated and left to sweat in the storage locker. Just not young, slim, or cute enough for his misogynistic majesty Billy, I guess.

I'm not really defending his treatment of Marva at all, but I don't think it had to do with her not being young, slim, or cute enough. Look how he treated Brittany - she was young, slim and cute but he was cruel to her too. It was just his character in general.  He had a mix of good and bad qualities.

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The first part of my post is about the show in general and then I want to talk about the finale.

I was looking forward to this show because I love legal dramas.  I also like rag tag groups which Billy's crew often was.  And when it hit on some of these things, it could really work as a show.  But it also couldn't avoid getting too cute.  Or annoying. 

For instance, Donald Cooperman's clicker was annoying as hell.  I suspect they thought of it like Tio's bell from Breaking Bad but that was chilling and effective as hell because it was his sole method of communication.  The clicker was just a tick that annoyed instead of ever building to something important.  I But speaking of Donald...I like William Hurt and he was decent here but I think this show would have been much better without the clicking, scarred (did we ever learn about what caused the burns?) murderous, crazy grudge holding (did we ever learn why other than jealousy?), law associate seducing, cartoon villain who could watch almost everything via a in house circuit TV with a red overlay.

I agree that Maria Bello was underutilized which was strange considering she got third billing.  Molly Parker was perfectly used here.  I've always found it hard to warm up to her as an actress when I'm supposed to sympathize with her (Deadwood) but in a role like this, she was perfection.

But considering David E Kelley is a lawyer, I was disappointed in how the case wrapped. 

The finale just left me scratching my head. 

First, that judge was so tight and strict about what he'd allow, even if he did give a favorable edge to the defense.  So why didn't Billy object to the questioning about the revenge porn sex tape of the witness?  That had absolutely zero bearing on the case and the victim in the incident forgave him.  But even worse was Brittany testifying.  What probative value did she have to offer to the case?  All she was testifying to was the conduct of Billy as a lawyer which would be valuable to censor or disbar him but again, it had zero to do with the case. And that was all the defense had to offer?

On 10/19/2016 at 3:05 PM, lordonia said:

Arguing for jury nullification is a breech of ethics for attorneys. Maybe in Billy's head he thought he skirted that in his closing, but I didn't.

Can you have jury nullification in a civil trial?  I always understood jury nullification to be "we think you did break this law but this law is stupid or shouldn't apply to you in your circumstances so we vote not guilty anyway."  Not "who do you believe?"

Now Billy's case, as we saw presented, ended up being terrible.  And I do think that judge would have set aside the verdict or a later judge would have.  And Billy was playing incredibly fast and loose with both the settlement and the law.  He was horrible with the settlement because he didn't present the offers to his client before dismissing them.  And then he made sure to give over evidence to the FBI which would make it pretty hard for his clients to get the money if they didn't get it that day.  And with the law because I believe California is a two-party consent state when it comes to recording conversations.  Maybe it wouldn't matter because the FBI is federal but I doubt that could be used.

I would probably watch a second season but only because I love legal shows and not because this was necessarily well put together.

Edited by Irlandesa
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I watched the first episode Thursday night and then binged the rest yesterday (up til 3 AM!). At first, I thought the fish guts were the dog. Then, the whole time, I was on edge, worrying about the dog.

The only other thing I've seen Molly Parker in is "House of Cards" and I thought this had similar machinations & manipulations.

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I would probably watch a second season but only because I love legal shows and not because this was necessarily well put together.

I'd watch a second season too but I'm not sure what the premise would be. It would be boring to have Billy keep going up against Cooperman-McBride since there are tons of other lawyers and law firms in LA. A whole show about Billy being an ambulance chaser would get old after a short while, IMO.

Interesting parallels between this show and The Night of:

Goliath: ace but downtrodden lawyer
The Night Of: pretty good but downtrodden lawyer

G: off-kilter relationship with a prostitute who helps with cases
TNO: mutual back-scratching relationship with a prostitute

G: street dog who's sort of become a pet; audience wonders whether the dog will live until the finale or get killed by The Evil Law Firm
TNO: adopted cat that formerly belonged to the murder victim; audience wonders whether the cat will run off or be returned to the shelter (where it'll likely be euthanized) by the finale

G: sleep apnea and alcoholism
TNO: eczema and general misanthropy

And of course there are obvious comparisons to Better Call Saul.

Good on Amazon for continuing to produce these, especially with actors you don't see so much anymore but who still seem to be on their game.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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On 21.10.2016 at 6:49 AM, Irlandesa said:

So why didn't Billy object to the questioning about the revenge porn sex tape of the witness?  That had absolutely zero bearing on the case and the victim in the incident forgave him.  But even worse was Brittany testifying.  What probative value did she have to offer to the case?  All she was testifying to was the conduct of Billy as a lawyer which would be valuable to censor or disbar him but again, it had zero to do with the case. And that was all the defense had to offer?

The defense's entire game plan consisted of throwing shade onto the witnesses and exposing their "dark secrets". They was practically no objections to any of the actual evidence, like the video or the rocket model or the expert's analyzing of the blueprints. How stupid they supposed the jury was if they thought saying "ooh, this dude put his sextape online to get revenge on his ex, he's a total douche that's why his analyzes is wrong"? They didn't even have their own experts to do this stuff. The entire law firm are bunch of morons.

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On October 22, 2016 at 7:23 PM, lordonia said:

Am I the only one who thought Billy killed himself at the end? Why else was he walking into the ocean fully dressed?

He did it in an earlier episode too, so I think it was just some kind of stress-relieving activity he used when the alcohol wasn't enough. Or a way to find out if he really wanted to live.

On October 28, 2016 at 6:44 AM, CooperTV said:

The entire law firm are bunch of morons.

They were morons to bow down and let Cooperman run the show. He wasn't interested in the law, just getting one over on Billy, his arch-enemy. I felt the frustration of the Borns Tech general council; they could have made the suit go away, they probably could have admitted their wrongful actions and paid a fine. Now the company is kaput and people are going to prison.

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I just started watching this show (on episode 2 now), and to remain spoiler-free, I haven't read any posts in this thread, but I need a question answered.  Can someone tell me if the dog dies in the show and if so, which episode?  I need to be prepare myself if that happens.  If you don't want to answer in this thread, please send me a message.  Thanks!  

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2 hours ago, hiccup said:

I just started watching this show (on episode 2 now), and to remain spoiler-free, I haven't read any posts in this thread, but I need a question answered.  Can someone tell me if the dog dies in the show and if so, which episode?  I need to be prepare myself if that happens.  If you don't want to answer in this thread, please send me a message.  Thanks!  

No doggie deaths. :)

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I wish I had known that prior to watching beyond the first two eps.  I was on edge the whole time, waiting for the dog to die and was so relieved when he didn't. ...and I'm not even a dog person.  One of my cats is, though. He loves the Shih Tzu next door.

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9 hours ago, lordonia said:

No doggie deaths. :)

Thank you so much!!  I can now just keep enjoying this show without the added stress.

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I just finished watching the series and I loved it!  Yes, there were a couple things that bugged me:  like someone upthread said, Cooperman being a little too cartoon-villian, and also I'm wanting to know the fate of the fisherman brothers.  Oh also, I would have liked to see more of a trial.  But overall, I was hooked from the beginning and I'm really hoping there will be another season.  It was nice seeing another show from David Kelley.

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Was it supposed to be a comment on Cooperman's vanity that he sat in a darkened room and often asked if others thought he was a "monster" when his facial scars didn't seem to be any worse than acne scars? Or were we supposed to think he was really disfigured?

I know nothing about cell phone capabilities (I barely use mine except to listen to music) - did the fisherman's video get uploaded somewhere instantly? Surely he lost the phone when the boat sank. 

Since they tried to kill Billy once why didn't they just try again? He was known as an alcoholic so they could have killed him in any number of ways that wouldn't seem suspicious.

I like Billy Bob and Nina Arianda and I always enjoy seeing Jason Ritter, but wasn't really into it. Maybe I just expected more because a friend went on and on like it was the greatest show ever. I thought it was good enough, but not great.

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I'm currently on  Episode 5 and I'm just loving this show.

I don't recall ever seeing a movie or TV show that included BBT in the cast where I didn't strongly like (or even love) his work.

When I first read about this show, I saw it was produced by David E. Kelley and I sighed to myself because in the past, I always enjoyed his shows when they were first shown (like Hill Street Blues). But after a few years, I came to see them as real "shlock". By that I mean, he can really tug at my heart strings in the moment. But after thinking about the show for a while, I usually see them as the equivalent of "Trash Tabloid Journalism" as you would apply that phrase to TV.

But I really don't care today. Being half way through the first season, I just hope there will be more seasons and I hope they will all star BBT. It was such a big disappointment when the second season of Fargo debuted and BBT was not involved. He was great in Season One and I was so much looking forward to Season Two. What a yooge disappointment that he was no longer involved.

But, I just get this strong feeling that no matter how much his character will have to suffer through the rest of the season and no matter how much all the innocent people (or victims) who choose to associate with his character (Billy McBride), I just know that in the end, Kelly will make sure that all the terrible nasty people (and there are no shortage of them) will all get what they deserve. Even if Kelly spends 7 episodes showing just just how evil these people are and then spends the remaining episodes punishing them all in the harshest possible way, I'm quite certain that I will relish those last episodes. I'm quite certain that I will walk around with a big grin on my face for those remaining weeks.

This show sure does have a whole lot of very interesting characters. The bad ones are just delicious in their incredible evil ways while the good one are just as delicious in the way in which they have been screwed over. My heart just nears the breaking point when I put myself in their shoes. In addition, I can just feel my emotions get closer and closer to wishing the evil-doers get the biggest comeuppance we've ever seen in a TV show.

David Kelley sure does know how to create masterful TV. I wish he would train some people to do the same kind of job that he does so that we will always have some TV shows produced with the same kind of quality.

Even though, some people will categorize his shows as "shlock" (including me), they are still wonderful and enjoyable and I just hope to always have plenty of that kind of "shlock" available to watch.

Hats off to Kelley and to Billy Bob Thorton as well!

 

OMG!!! I just read the rest of this thread and can't believe the show will end without the good people being rewarded and the bad people being punished. Oh well. I suppose that Kelley has submitted to the reality of life. By that I mean that most of the time, life is just not fair. The good usually do not get rewarded in this lifetime and the bad usually do not get punished.

If they are to get what they deserve, I suppose it will have to be in some other lifetime or depending on whatever religion they may follow and whatever they may believe about the afterlife, I suppose they will have to seek some comfort in the fact that we are all promised that somehow and someway, they will get what they deserve.

But, at least the actors who have done such a wonderful job on this show are likely to be rewarded during this lifetime. They certainly deserve to be rewarded for their work.

Truly a masterpiece. Especially since it is produced in such an "understated" way. BBT is not presented as some hero in shining white armor. He is shown with all his flaws and that just makes him so much more realistic. What a great show! I hope we will see many more from Mr. Kelley and also from BBT. I'm so happy that BBT won the Golden Globe. He deserves that in spades for this incredible season. Yippee!

Edited by LauraAnders
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I just watched the final episode and I want to say that I didn't view BBT's walk into the ocean as a suicide. Not at all!

I saw that as his need to wash away the dirty slime that he felt had covered his body after dealing with all the slimy people involved in that trial and especially with having had to deal with Donny. I would have felt the same way. Then I would have gone to see the mother and son and told them how sorry I was for all the trouble they had suffered and how happy I was that they finally learned the truth and would get some compensation for their loss. I would have made it clear that no amount of money could ever fairly compensate them and I would have tried to spend a last evening or dinner with them if they wanted that.

Then, I would go see Brittany and try to make amends with her. I might offer her some help in the way of some money or pay for her to attend some kind of treatment program.

Finally, I would take the money I had earned from the trial, probably around $20 million or so and I would leave the country forever. I would find a nice place to live outside of the jurisdiction of the USA (just in case someone ever decided to seek retribution against me) and I would try to live out the rest of my life in a small amount of comfort and find a partner who might be willing to spend the rest of their life together with me.

But I sure do hope there is a second season. In fact, the ending of this episode may have been a way to give the producers a way to hedge their bets so they could just end the show or so they could have a second season.

Either way, it was a really great show and BBT shone like always.

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As much as I enjoyed the series, I'm not sure I'd want a second season. Billy Bob doesn't seem to like to repeat himself, for one thing. I don't know what the plot would be -- another trial with the same team? The supporting characters on Billy's side were terrific and I'd hate to lose any of them, but there would be some explaining to do. Who knows what the ratings were but it certainly didn't get a lot of buzz.

I guess I'm happy to make up my own ending along with @LauraAnders

The original title was "Trial" which honestly, I think might have helped get more people to watch. It's David E. Kelley! It's a legal drama involving a trial!

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Great news! This was one of my absolute favorite shows last year and I'm eager to pop in on McBride's hotel room life again after his big win.

I pretty much liked all the cast, but they had better bring Patty back!

I'm a little bummed to lose David E. Kelley because I thought his extensive experience with episodic TV was a huge positive influence on the flow of the plot, but IMDB tells me that the new guy, Clyde Phillips, has worked almost exclusively in TV, so that's hopeful.

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My one nitpick with the show was Billy telling the priest that he knew a suicide could not have a Catholic funeral and burial, and the priest didn't disagree with him. This hasn't been the case for quite some time now - the Catholic Church assumes that anyone who commits suicide is suffering from mental illness and it's no longer considered a mortal sin.

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I guess the ratings were strong enough to get a second season!  I loved the show! My only quibble was that David Kelly stacked the decks - corrupt police, corrupt DEA informers, a practically evil lead counsel and a judge who may or may not be bought. Throw in a disloyal friend  (Brittany) and its a bit much. I am in the minority because I don't feel any sympathy for Brittany.  I thought her anger at Billy was displaced. She could and should have taken her legal concerns to him when the bad cop returned. I need something really bad to happen to that officer.

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I just finished it this morning. I reallly enjoyed it except for the overuse of the F word, but I see that all the time. I like Billy Boy Thornton as an actor and think he carried this show. I was a bit amused at some of his tough guy speeches though given how scrawny the guy is, but I guess it was about the character's attitude. 

I didn't really feel sorry for Brittany. She made her bed (pun intended). The actress did a good job though and her body is sick! I don't think I have seen her in anything else. Anyone know if she's done other series?

One thing I didn't like was Lucy's character and her relationship with Cooperman. I never really believed it and also thought it unraveled too quickly. I got the feeling I was supposed to feel sympathy for Lucy, but I didn't. I didn't feel anything at all. Perhaps it was the actress. She just didn't sell it for me. 

I am a big Dwight Yoakam fan and I didn't even recognize him until I saw him in the credits! Gosh! I knew he was balding but he looked chubby, and he's always been really slim... a long, tall drink of water. Did they pad him? Or was it just his face that was chubby? He's actually a pretty decent actor. I remember he was also in Slingblade with Billy Bob. He played a creepy abusive guy. 

Agree with posters who said Maria Bello didn't have much of a part. I loved her clothes though. 

I hope there is a second season. If there is, I hope there are 10 episodes instead of 8. 

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On 10/22/2016 at 11:07 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

And of course there are obvious comparisons to Better Call Saul.

Yes, and I also found the teen daughter relationship reminiscent of Bosch.  

On 5/30/2017 at 7:20 PM, Sweet-tea said:

I didn't really feel sorry for Brittany. She made her bed (pun intended). The actress did a good job though and her body is sick! I don't think I have seen her in anything else. Anyone know if she's done other series?

Tania Raymonde, if you want to peruse her IMDB.  I know her as Alex Rousseau on Lost, Ben Linus's teen daughter.  She's changed.  

I can't say I loved this.  BBT is always good.  And it wasn't terrible.  But the legal stuff was ridiculous and it used so many overdone tropes, like getting the villain to admit his guilt in a closed room and secretly taping it.  

I know the corp. is guilty but even I as a juror would have to rule in their favor because Billy's case proved nothing.  But that's legal TV... a whole lot of dramatic monologues and very little else.   And I haaaaated that his summation relied on 'send a message to evil corporate America'.  Corp. America IS our economy, it's our retirement funds, our employers, our tax base, it's us.  Welcome to capitalism.  If you think the evil corp. is 'too profitable', buy its stock.  

I did like the Ocean Lodge hotel.  Though how a down-on-his-luck wino lives in a beachside, 3-room hotel room in Santa Monica, I have no idea.  That hotel costs $278/night.  

So, yeah, kind of a waste of 8 hours.  Maybe him walking into the water at the end was supposed to be symbolic of the ocean being cleansing, which was also a theme in Kelley's HBO series Big Little Lies?  I thought the contrast of the ride's bright lights and Billy drinking whiskey on the cold, dark beach with a stray dog was kind of anvilicious after about the third time they used it.

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Sterling K. Brown (This Is Us), Billy Bob Thornton (Goliath), Riz Ahmed (The Night Of), John Lithgow (The Crown), Jeffrey Wright (Westworld), Ewan MacGregor (Fargo) on The Hollywood Reporter's Drama Actor round table:

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I saw (on another site and I'm sorry I can't post links) that season 2 has been temporarily suspended due to the wildfires near their location for filming. That's going to make it longer until we get season 2. Drats. 

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Hey, I do not have idea about Billy sunglasses. Now-a-days many brands produce the same type of products so sometimes it becomes difficult to recognize the brand. But few days back, when I was discussing about fashion accessories brands with one of my friends, I came to know about many useful reference of wholesale sunglasses.

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Billy gets drawn into a case because it’s the “good” son of his friend Oscar who wins the bar he frequents. His older two sons were killed by gang violence. His youngest is set up so that it appears that he has done this murder as a retaliation. Billy clearly didn’t want to take on a Capital case but 

Spoiler

When his friend Oscar goes to testify on his sons behalf he gets shot on the street and dies in Billy’s hands. Now the trial has become personal  

 Billy begins to enlist the aid of Brittany (grudgingly) and Patty who wants absolutely nothing to do with the former. 

Episode 2 begins with showing us exactly what happened the night of the murder. 

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I'm watching it, but haven't finished it yet, and wanted to stay away from spoilers. I'm about to start episode 4. 

Oops, I added the comment before I was done.  Anyway, the end of episode 3 was messed up!  

Spoiler

First, Wyatt's own little theater production was creepy as hell! And his fetish with amputations reminded me of an episode of Law & Order SVU.

Edited by hiccup

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I finished it and won’t post any spoilers but it was gritty and graphic at times. It will take me time to process the ending. 

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