Travelers - General Discussion

[Lebanna]

That two partner was a lot of fun. 

I mean, it was slightly tragic as well, but we all knew the baby wasn't going to make it. I'm just glad that they didn't make Marcie do it, as from a story perspective that's great drama, but from a character perspective it would be very out of character for her to actually go through with that. For a moment near the end, I thought we'd been watching an alternative universe that was all in Philip's head, and the idea that he can actually visualize the different timelines could make a great episode. I'm sure he'll stop taking those pills at some point.

And the second episode with baby Hillary Clinton and Marcie's backstory was good. Plus the issues between Marcie and David needed to end already because they are much more fun to watch when they're happy. Cute couples being sad is fine, but cute couples being cute is better.

Looking forward to the two episodes next week.

[snowwhyte]

It was sad about the baby but of all the rules they have to follow the one about not having children makes a lot of sense. McLaren is the team leader and it always annoyed me that he was breaking the rules and keeping secrets but I guess it was just too difficult for him to hurt his wife and end the pregnancy. 

The situation with Phillip is interesting. It is highly probable that he will learn about something happening to one of his teammates and act to prevent it even if he's not meant to. We saw that when he saved Trevor against orders.

The Marcy thing was interesting. So she was a healthcare professional who was experimented on by Enrico Calontoni's character. She was damaged by the experiments and they dumped her on the streets to be found by David. I was wondering if she had any family and friends. Surely someone noticed she was missing and reported it? The police would ask at her place of work where she had suddenly become a patient. Could they really buy off or transfer everyone she worked with? I am very intrigued by the whole situation.

[millahnna]

So did Enrico's character know Marcy was a possible host (since he was 0001 in this season's premiere) and that's why he did the experiments to begin with? That's the impression I got when he was saying that he was trying to make her whole or however that line went. But then I can't figure out what he was hoping to achieve before he broke her.  Or was it his experiments that made her a host candidate to begin with?  That would kind of tie in with what we've learned about the shifting timelines; I'm specifically thinking of the sky diving episode (where the brother and truck driver became a candidate as repeated efforts lead to their deaths) but I think we've had other instances of similar events.  I still haven't gotten around to that season 1 rewatch but I think we saw something similar then, like with McClaren's friend becoming a traveler.

[snowwhyte]

The historians know who the potential host candidates are. If the crazy tech guy is a historian Enrico's character could have known Marcy was a host candidate. It seemed more like Marcy was being a pain by questioning what they were doing so they offered her a lot of money for a scan that went wrong. They kept trying to fix her but when that didn't work they dumped her on the street which put her on course to become a host. 

[snowwhyte]

Are they going to end every season with the team surrounded by law enforcement? 

I don't know that I'd be that easily convinced that my loved ones are time travellers from the future. 

[Clanstarling]

I was excited to watch the first episode this morning. I hope we have threads for individual episodes - because I'm not a binger (or rather, I won't have time to binge) and I'd like to discuss the episodes w/o spoilers. But I guess it depends on the traffic.

In any case, I liked where they went with it, and Enrico always makes a show better. I'm hoping Stephen Lobo's character continues - I loved him in Continuum.

[2727]

2 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I hope we have threads for individual episodes - because I'm not a binger (or rather, I won't have time to binge) and I'd like to discuss the episodes w/o spoilers.

Perhaps we can all identify which episode or season overview the post is regarding, then put the text in spoiler tags? Example:

Episode 3, Jacob

Spoiler

comments

Episode 12/entire season

Spoiler

comments

I've watched already but am going to start a binge rewatch because it's easy for me to forget plot points going week to week.

[mjc570]

On 10/27/2017 at 3:47 PM, snowwhyte said:

I don't know why Carly is trying to get her baby back. It makes her job more difficult and she's not really safe to be around. I understand why she might not want her abusive ex to have the baby but if it's going to a good home it would probably be better to let it go.

Especially since it's not really "hers"but her host was the one who carried and birthed him.  I liked how the social worker saw through their act, but was willing to understand why they did it. 

Liking the season very much so far, Enrico C. is a great addition (as are the other Canadians), but am so tired of Philip and his addicition(s).  Love his turtle.

Also - totally love Grace, she is my favorite character.  I've only watched the first 3 episodes (she was in 1 of them, tangentially), but I hope she is more involved.

Edited December 27, 2017 by mjc570
forgot to add

[mjc570]

S2E8

Spoiler

Wow, poor Grace.  Glad to see she's (hopefully) still around,m she is my fave.  Also glad to see Marcy wasn't taken in by the programmer, and that the team was on top of the situation.  The whole Grace/Trevor vibe is so cute, especially the hug and the "french cuisine."  I really doubt they will hook up, I'd like to see Grace actually get a friend of her own. 

I think it is interesting to look at the whole concept of how the future the travelers know is affected by their actions.  Their foreknowledge is apparently finite, resulting in financial problems, i guess they should have made more money quickly since they were relying on Philip's knowledge of racing results.  Maybe they should have invested more, like Vincent did.  I presume Carly had to show some sort of financial stability to regain custody, but if her paycheck is insufficient (on a regular basis) to meet her expenses, how is that going to work?  Money laundering, I guess, on a small scale.

Not too many comments here, I sure hope more people are watching.

[Clanstarling]

Just finished binging. I'd said earlier that I wouldn't have time to - and I really didn't, but damn that Netflix, it just kept playing and I kept putting off chores. Merry Christmas to me.

I really liked this season. I think they did a great job of building up to the finale, and changing up the situation once again in a fairly realistic way.

As for Philip's foreknowledge, I like that they came up with a solution to keep historians up to date (since everything travelers around the world are doing is changing history), and how that foreknowledge really impacted him emotionally. What a tough job.

Didn't much care for the groundhog day episode - it just went on too long for my tastes, though they did come up with a satisfactory conclusion. I think there were some plot holes, but I'd have to watch it again.

They left us with plenty to think about and go forward with in the next season, which I hope there will be.

Shouldn't have watched the virus episode while trying to decide if I was coming down with something. LOL.

Edited December 29, 2017 by Clanstarling

[Clanstarling]

On 12/26/2017 at 7:35 PM, mjc570 said:

Especially since it's not really "hers"but her host was the one who carried and birthed him.  I liked how the social worker saw through their act, but was willing to understand why they did it. 

Liking the season very much so far, Enrico C. is a great addition (as are the other Canadians), but am so tired of Philip and his addicition(s).  Love his turtle.

Also - totally love Grace, she is my favorite character.  I've only watched the first 3 episodes (she was in 1 of them, tangentially), but I hope she is more involved.

I think a lot of people who are unwilling tasked with taking care of a child, will develop feelings for the child. The others have developed affections for their host body's family members, wives and friends - or in the case of Trevor, simply with a guidance counselor. So I personally think it's entirely reasonable that Carly grew to love her child, and wanted him back, especially as they seem to be precious commodities in the future. I think it also might be a red flag if she were to just simply give up on the child.

I love Grace too. Woman cannot keep her mouth shut. She'd be a pain if I knew her in the real world, but fun in the fictional one.

[mjc570]

Well, I just finished.  Quite an ending - I sure hope the series isn't canceled, I can't wait to see what happens now.  I'm not sure why Vincent felt the need to do what he did

Spoiler

(transfer his conscientiousness into Dr. Perrow's body)

- as a super wealthy man, wouldn't he in a position to exercise more power than her?  It didn't look like his host body was ill or aged.

Vincent may have forced them

Spoiler

to publicize what they are,

but where is the terrorist connection?  Or, is it merely aliens taking over the world?

I thought David of all people would be more understanding, he saw what Marcy put herself through, in part because of her love of him.

Hope next season we get Roger Cross, and Madam #53. 

[roctavia]

I think the consciousness transfer into the psychiatrist was to free him from the director. The director thinks he’s been overwritten and the error is now corrected. Assuming the director has no knowledge that vincent built a conscious transferring device. 

 

I do do want to know what happened to Simon. They didn’t show us a new body he was going into, and have now moved the device, so ???? 

It will be interesting to see how the world responds to knowing about travelers, and why the director didn’t intervene. The personal relationships will really be interesting to see as well, though the normal people need it to sink in that the travelers took over people who are dead/ would have been dead. Cop guy would have killed her and needed to live with that, etc. 

 

Overall it it was a good season. Some unexpected twists, and something I couldn’t turn off! I hope there is another season, though I hate having to wait a year! 

 

One thing I disliked was that 01 was always steps ahead of them... would have been nice for one of their plans to work at least for a little while!

It was interesting to find out that Marcy was normal before, I had assumed it was a lifelong mental disability, but I guess they didn’t go that far into her backstory in season 1. Vincent has been causing them trouble longer than we thought!

[DEM]

I enjoyed this season very much and more than the first season.  The season seemed to hit its stride by 2x04.  The key factor in my enjoyment were the character adjustments: Carly/Grant went completely away; David was less goofy and more selfless rather than dependent; Carly's tendency toward unprovoked belligerence and confrontation was toned down; Phillip's addiction was used smartly rather than melodramatically; and the late-season reveal/retcon of Marcy's host's history made up for a lot of earlier drag. In general, I'd say they were all less cliched and more sympathetic while still being complex.

2x01 was a great start both for its "old home week" casting (each successive guest star entrance provoked a bigger shout than the last) and for its satiation of my craving for a genre story that showed and respected the perspectives of "outsider" professionals; in this case, the psychologist and the FBI.

2x09 (Update) was both very moving and very frustrating for its incompleteness.  Grant, Marcy, and Trevor all effected change to the past, but the consequences of those actions were explored only for Grant. In fact, the effects caused by Marcy (David --> his clients) and Trevor (both Kyle and Coach) were treated as either unconditionally positive or superfluous -- which strikes at the very notion of the importance of strict adherence to the protocols. The ep would have been improved simply by having Marcy and Trevor acknowledge their roles.

2x07 (17 Minutes) was my favourite. I saw it less as "Groundhog Day" and more as a cross between a video game and a mystery.  There were only a few moments that I thought were too repetitive, but they didn't detract much from my overall enjoyment. I loved how all the clues to the solution were shown in the first reset. The story also revealed much about the larger world of the traveler program and how difficult it is to get wins.  Carrie was fantastic!

2x12 dovetailed nicely with 2x01.  However, I wish it had spent more time showing discussion among the family & friends, and David's reaction to the truth rang false. I said earlier that I liked that David was less goofy, but in 2x12 he seemed to return to his S1 level of cluelessness. Of all them, he should have been the most willing to accept that something far out of the range of normal was going on.  It's one thing for he himself to be guileless, but it beggars belief that he could be that successful a caseworker while holding tight to such a simplistic and naive worldview.

Overall, I just love how this show is realistically grim but not grimdark simply for the heck of it. And I love how smart it is about exploring the complications -- big and small -- of being a time traveler.

Couple of questions: 1) When did Wakefield go from being Faction to an ally?  2) At what point did Vincent overwrite Dr Perrow?

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, DEM said:

Couple of questions: 1) When did Wakefield go from being Faction to an ally?  2) At what point did Vincent overwrite Dr Perrow?

1) I think he got overwritten, but I can't quite remember when or why. That's what I get from binging - the details escape me. I need to rewatch.

[Cardie]

I just finished binging on Netflix and have to say that if there is a S3, it will be a totally different beast. I give thumbs up to 17 minutes. They may have made the replay segments a bit too long but it was fascinating to see how the future figured out by trial and error how to solve the problem. Nice that in the final timeline change poor Carrie didn't have to die. But I think Marcie's backstory in the ice bath was my favorite. I adore David and hope they can repair their relationship. A dose of Enrico Colantoni ups any show's game but I never understood why 1 didn't just evacuate the building and try to make contact again. Did he chicken out when he got into the wrong host and decide to take the money and live? A friend asked me about the show and I said that every actor in Canada would eventually show up.  I see others here had the same thought.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Cardie

[DEM]

45 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

1) I think he got overwritten, but I can't quite remember when or why.

Oh, right, right!  Wakefield revealed his offscreen overwrite during 17 Minutes.

[roctavia]

2 hours ago, DEM said:

Oh, right, right!  Wakefield revealed his offscreen overwrite during 17 Minutes.

The known faction people were all overwritten when the director came back online. Mac was about to shoot his faction FBI partner when he got all screamy and was suddenly a new traveler.  The rest of the FBI was overwritten at that time. 

Edited December 31, 2017 by roctavia

[Primal Slayer]

I just binged S1/2 and so happy to see this place is active! 

I am not really a fan of shows that out their characters so early in a series but they apparently have a grand plan so I have faith in them to not let this ruin the series. Though I am happy that all of their "loved" ones finally know the truth and hope that it stays that way.

The actress who plays Grace having to really introduce us to 2 very different characters was so great. I loved her original persona and I love her Traveler persona. When she was on trial I loved that she continued to just speak her mind it was so funny.

[Paloma]

5 hours ago, DEM said:

At what point did Vincent overwrite Dr Perrow?

He must have done it just before he let her go. We see him sitting in front of the computer screen watching videos of his son at different ages, and then I think there's a quick transition to him sitting in the chair staring blankly (unconscious?) with a fly on his face, and finally a new consciousness comes into his body (presumably the Director overwriting him, as punishment). So he must have transferred his consciousness into Dr. Perrow after he watched the video of his son and before the scene with a fly on his face, even though to us it didn't really look like any time went by.

When Simon was building the device, was Ingram really there with him or was that a delusion? At the very end when Simon was lying down apparently about to be "fixed" (which I guess meant to have his consciousness sent to another, healthy host), Ingram was initially in the scene talking to him but then disappeared. It wasn't clear to me when this scene took place--in present time while the travelers were confessing and their loved ones were being abucted and then released, or sometime in the past. 

[Cardie]

50 minutes ago, Paloma said:

It wasn't clear to me when this scene took place

Clarifying exposition is not one of this series' priorities.

[Paloma]

7 hours ago, Cardie said:

Clarifying exposition is not one of this series' priorities.

So true! I enjoyed the show much more when I stopped asking questions and just went with whatever was happening. Still, as a fan of sci-fi and time travel stories, I do wish they had made more of an attempt to clarify important plot points. It also would have helped to have "previouslies" before each episode, especially when characters and plot points called back to Season 1.  I had considered rewatching S1 before S2 but didn't have the time. However, at some point during S2 I rewatched episode 1 of S1 and that helped clarify at least some of what the deal was with Vincent.

[Clanstarling]

I do agree that the transference in the end got pretty confusing. Between Vincent, the shrink, and the poor mentally disturbed guy, I'm not sure who went where - because Vincent's body sure seemed dead to me. But I do plan to re-watch and savor, instead of binge and gulp. So maybe I'll pick up the pieces.

[MisterGlass]

I just finished the second Season.  They aren't shy about making big changes to the story line, and I appreciate the willingness to move on things.  I thought the character work and team dynamic improved a bit over last season.  I like that they've managed to maintain such a large ensemble, and to bring back side characters.  There are at least a few more Canadian actors they could work in if they want to expand the team :-)

I agree the practical thing would be for Grace to give up on custody of JJ, but she now seems attached, and it would violate the protocol about living as much like the host would have as possible.  However, the boyfriend is a huge liability.  I'm surprised by the retcon of Marcie, and thought it was abrupt.

Scifi has so embraced the Groundhog Day episode that I assume it is coming at some point, and I kind of enjoying seeing all the variations.  This season's went pretty well.

As others have mentioned 001 transferred into the psychologist's body to fake his death.  Flies are a traditional indicator of death in all mediums, so I assume that his body died at transfer with no consciousness to sustain it, but was not unresponsive long enough to be unable to support a new traveler.  Simon is forever stuck, if he wasn't killed outright.  If he were transferred to a new body, he could tell the truth about what happened, and he is no ally of 001.  Presumably 001 will one day transfer to another body, since the machine was preserved.  001 was supposed to die because the machine wanted to avoid ripples just like the ones he has caused in its initial outing.  I like that they kept the option of bring back Enrico Colantoni as a guest in the future, even as a different traveler.

There were a lot of little world building tidbits that I enjoyed this season.  001's analog home videos of his son.  Simon's sketches of the domes.  Phillip's historian upgrade and his subtle delight in being able to recite news stories again, as well as his explanation of how historians are groomed.  My favorite may have been learning that Trevor had traveled to other bodies in his own time first.

[Paloma]

Although I enjoyed the show, I could never remember the protocols so whenever they were mentioned I would be confused. I just found this list, which may help anyone else who is watching now or planning on rewatching.

http://bigloudmountain.com/travelers-protocols-the-rules-of-being-a-traveler-showcase/

Edited to list the protocols for those who don't want to go to the link:

1. The mission comes first.

2. Never jeopardize your cover.

3. Don’t take a life; don’t save a life, unless otherwise directed.

4. Do not reproduce.

5. In the absence of direction, maintain your host’s life.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Paloma
clarification

[Primal Slayer]

I am a bit surprised that Jeff has been able to get off the hook fairly easily in both seasons. The guy just keeps messing up and continues to abuse Carly someway somehow throughout the season. Especially in the finale when he told her to stay away from his son I was like

You barely take care of your kid and practically killed your baby momma! What kind of moral high ground do you think you have? 

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, MisterGlass said:

There were a lot of little world building tidbits that I enjoyed this season.  001's analog home videos of his son.  Simon's sketches of the domes.  Phillip's historian upgrade and his subtle delight in being able to recite news stories again, as well as his explanation of how historians are groomed.  My favorite may have been learning that Trevor had traveled to other bodies in his own time first.

I liked all of it too. The scenes where travelers - see the sketches was pretty moving. They all showed a little bit of longing, of homesickness. No matter how terrible, home is home. It was also good for us to see a little of what the future looks like outside of the dull clothes, grim food, and bald heads.

I waffle on whether Marcy was ret-conned, or simply had her past filled in. There was literally nothing mentioned about her life previous to her impairment, just as there was nothing about Trevor traveling to other bodies other than his own.  Filling in the past isn't quite the same thing as ret-conning, but it can certainly feel the same.  I wonder if this opens Marcy up to finding family or people who knew her before. Seems like all of the travelers are going to need new connections in the next season, though the others will certainly still be around.

I didn't care for the Groundhog Day mostly because, for me, it went on too long. For my tastes it could have lost one or two iterations. The concept was good though, and I liked the information given that too many attempts to the same host body will render it unusable.

Thanks for the list @Paloma, I always had trouble remembering them, and I'll need them for the next go-around. :)

Edited January 1, 2018 by Clanstarling

[kryss]

My own speculation that is probably wide off the mark, but I'm waiting for a Terminator moment where 001 evolves to become the consciousness that is The Director, or at least is integral to its creation. Plus the connection shown between Grace and the Director during the trial episode didn't seem particularly 'artificial'.

[Txmomof2]

Ok so I binged and finished season 2 this morning. If you watch the last few minutes my theory is Simon went into Grace. She' asked at the end of she is ok and makes the comment "I don't know" and was very quiet after going back into the room. That is not in her character. 001 would have wanted to test the machine to make sure it works. So my guess is he transferrd Simon into Grace. When that worked he transferrd himself into Dr. Perrow.  

[MrsR]

Ooooooooooh just finished bingeing Season 2.

Mind officially blown.

Okay so who the hell traveled into Vincents body? 

 

I still love Grace.

[Cardie]

6 hours ago, MrsR said:

Okay so who the hell traveled into Vincents body?

I assume a new traveler but then I don't keep track of their numerical designations, so it could be someone we've already met.

[MisterGlass]

He checked in on the webcam as a new traveler in the 5000 series, so it is a new person.

They dispatched a lot of travelers this season since they are already up to the mid 5000s, and were still in the 4000 series when the season started.

[Catfi9ht]

Long time lurker and former TWOPer. I very rarely post, but I really enjoyed this show and wanted to give the forum some love. I thought this season was very well directed in a bunch of episodes, especially the episode with Marcy regaining her memories. 

My theory about 001 is he transferred into the doctor before the interrogations of the hostages. I believe Perrault showing her heartbeat monitor and indicating she was participating against her will was just a red herring. There was a conversation between Simon and 001 where 001 told Simon he would need to transfer multiple consciousnesses before Simon was transferred to make sure the transfers worked so we know that Simon went last. Also, the phrase "multiple transfers before Simon" was used so that seems to indicate that it wasn't just 001 so there might be someone else we don't know about.

Finally, I'm guessing the Director knows that 001 transferred prior to the new traveler overwriting him. When the web cam was turned on, Trevor's confession voiceover was describing a glassy-eyed, dead stare (or something similar) in a body without a consciousness which is exactly the expression on 001's face before the new traveler arrived. The Director (or other travelers) reviewing the footage would notice that look and put two-and-two together.

Anyway, I really enjoyed season 2 and am looking forward to season 3!

[MisterGlass]

Ah, TWOP.  Welcome to the thread!

Interesting theory that 001 was conducting the interviews.  I'm not clear on the timeline of when Simon was still working on the machine.  I thought they were all kidnapped and being interrogated while he was working on it.  However, it would be a clever tactic to get exactly the right questions asked, and a way to practice being her. 

[sjohnson]

The whereabouts of Simon are confusing as of now because they plan to develop this thread I think. 

And yes, I agree 001 transferred into Perrow to escape the Director. 001 gave the Director Ingram so that Ingram could walk back the revelations, believing the Director would let him go (for now, but 001 has other plans for the future.) If 001 really believed the Director would accept that 001 actually committed suicide to save the temporal anomaly Taylor, and that it was straightforwardly a matter of his cunning fooling the Director, I think he's kidding himself. When the author of the expose, the people who "confessed" under duress and the people who were kidnapped all agree it was a hoax, most will disbelieve. Especially those who think time travel is malarkey. (Curiously at this moment, it is a theoretical possibility in general relativity, the last time I looked, although it would be unimaginably difficult even in principle, and look nothing like "time travel" in the movies/TV.) Intelligence agencies will still have mounds of circumstantial evidence, but the sad fact is that many, maybe most, people will deny circumstantial evidence, even though it tends to be more reliable than eyewitness testimony! Think Ray will keep quiet for tips, think David will calm down and realize he loves the traveler and always has, think Jeffrey will realize that proclaiming the truth of travelers means he personally confesses to wife beating that had originally led to wife murder which will not help him keep his son...the real issue is Kat. But 3468 is what still survives of Grant MacLaren? But the upshot I think is that there is no real reason to think the program is definitively exposed. Possibly two or three episodes will be devoted to walking back the reveal, but...

Any scenario which changes the future so that there is no Director is a paradox. Most time travel shows assume these are somehow possible. But if there is no Director there are no travelers to change the future so there is no need for a Director. Thus, we can see these developments as allowed precisely because they are constructing an alternate future in which there is a Director, avoiding that paradox. It is entirely unclear precisely where Our Heroes grew up in this scenario. The obvious solution is that the consciousness of each was created by the Director from its calculation of alternate timelines, that they will all be revealed in the end to be heroic fictions. This would be very meta, to say the least. Most people hate meta, I think. Whether or not it goes that far, a partial reveal may be incorporated into the Grand Plan. I think. This is especially true given the original Marcy's involvement with 001, which strongly suggests that's why she was chosen and why it was so essential to save her (which was not a given for the Director, even if it was for the team.)

Edited January 5, 2018 by sjohnson

[Cranky One]

I normally don't like this type of genre of shows/movies, but I really enjoy this show even though I may be confused at times! 

I also like how they ended S2 because it was simple enough to remember if there is a S3 (fingers crossed). It took me a while to recall what happened in S1.

[AlliMo]

I started binging a few days ago and I'm midway through the second season, and this show is filling the "Continuum" shaped hole left in my heart. That is all.

[BetyBee]

One thing I like about this show is that the characters all swear like normal people.  Other than that, I'm not sure why I saw it all the way through.  I think it's just okay.  I'm not exactly dying to find out what happens next season, if there is a next season.  

[blueray]

I just finished the season. I'm not sure if it was as good as the first season. That being said because of the cliffhanger I hope that they get a third season.

 

I think as time pasts, David will realize the woman he fell in love with was the traveler. And that she didn't kill Marcy, Marcy was killed by those creeps outside the library.  He will forgive her. The lawyer guy isn't going to say anything as it sounds crazy and he isn't really close to Philip. It was to that point I realized that Philp doesn't have anyone he cares about that isn't a traveler. I think the show was better off having him not have someone involved as there really was no stakes for him. I agree that Jeff isn't going to say anything, because he has to come to terms that he "killed" Carly. And I hope that Grace is still Grace, as she is just an awesome character. But yeah, she was surprising quite at the end, which isn't like her.  The saddest one of course is the wife. I think that is the hardest to except, as he died in the line of duty, and he would have been alive if he wasn't chancing them. I'm not sure if she will ever forgive him, but yeah he is the closest thing she has to her husband.

Side note, I really struggled with Amanda Tapping here. I know her so well for Stargate  and Sanctuary that I just couldn't accept her character.  Every time she came on screen I was like oh its Amanda.

Edited January 6, 2018 by blueray

[nekilarose]

On ‎12‎/‎31‎/‎2017 at 2:55 PM, Primal Slayer said:

I am a bit surprised that Jeff has been able to get off the hook fairly easily in both seasons. The guy just keeps messing up and continues to abuse Carly someway somehow throughout the season. Especially in the finale when he told her to stay away from his son I was like

You barely take care of your kid and practically killed your baby momma! What kind of moral high ground do you think you have? 

YES!!!! I so wanted her to "finish the job". I love you Phillip, but man, you coulda looked the other way on that (logically, I know it wouldn't have turned out good for Carly, but I can dream right?) But he really has not been held accountable for how he's treated Carly, at all. I knew he was trying to sneak his way back in, and I knew it would be bad when he was rejected, but damn. He deserved that ass whupping and more.

There was a surprising amount of humor in the finale, I thought. Especially with Ray and his "we can take 'em" attitude. Which morphed very quickly into a "cancel the plan" attitude. Also with David being the main one to connect most of the dots on how everyone was connected. "Who the fuck is Marcy?"

Grace, as always was perfect. I really hope nothing has happened to her, we need her bluntness. I am tickled, though, that instead of Trevors parents, they chose Grace instead.

Edited January 7, 2018 by nekilarose

[Clanstarling]

7 hours ago, nekilarose said:

Grace, as always was perfect. I really hope nothing has happened to her, we need her bluntness. I am tickled, though, that instead of Trevors parents, they chose Grace instead.

There's been something about Grace (who I love too) niggling about in my head, and I don't know if it has already been answered. Do we know that Grace was a woman in the future? She traveled in a rush, and might have gone into the next available body, instead of her gender. There was so much to absorb, that I don't remember details anymore. Given that 001 moved into the psychologist, it's obviously not impossible to do cross-gender travel.

[blueray]

15 hours ago, nekilarose said:

Grace, as always was perfect. I really hope nothing has happened to her, we need her bluntness. I am tickled, though, that instead of Trevors parents, they chose Grace instead.

I was glad of this too. I didn't need his parents who really know nothing, to involved with this. I'm glad they kept it that way.

[nekilarose]

7 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

There's been something about Grace (who I love too) niggling about in my head, and I don't know if it has already been answered. Do we know that Grace was a woman in the future? She traveled in a rush, and might have gone into the next available body, instead of her gender. There was so much to absorb, that I don't remember details anymore. Given that 001 moved into the psychologist, it's obviously not impossible to do cross-gender travel.

I don't know if it's ever mentioned, but now that you brought it up, I realized that I just assumed (until the last episode) that male=male and female=female. 

[Clanstarling]

22 hours ago, nekilarose said:

I don't know if it's ever mentioned, but now that you brought it up, I realized that I just assumed (until the last episode) that male=male and female=female. 

I think planned downloads kept to the gender of the Travelers, but Grace's was pretty hasty, as I recall. Which is why I started wondering, once 001switched.

[snowwhyte]

I think if Grace was a man there would have been some mention of it before now. Didn't she and Trevor know each other in the future? He would have said something about it if that were the case.

I remember wishing in season one that we saw more of the travellers adjusting to their new bodies and the psychological effects. I assume part of their training in the future was psychological preparation but how do you prepare someone to change gender? Even the most stable person would struggle and 001 is definitely not stable. I assume there is a rule against going into the wrong gender body except in emergencies but 001 obviously doesn't follow the rules.

[Clanstarling]

37 minutes ago, snowwhyte said:

I think if Grace was a man there would have been some mention of it before now. Didn't she and Trevor know each other in the future? He would have said something about it if that were the case.

I think you're most likely right, given that it would be noteworthy that "he" had become a "she" in the download. Then again, nothing seems to faze Trevor, so not saying something isn't absolute proof in my twisty mind. IIRC, they didn't have a ton of downtime to chat about the future. But I was just asking the question and seeing if anyone remembered their interactions for definite proof. 

I just started rewatching Season 2, and caught this little nugget in the first episode. The traveler/doctor who gave Grace the nanites introduced himself as being from "Grace Hospital" and said to call him "Derek" - Grey's Anatomy shout out? 

Edited January 9, 2018 by Clanstarling

[nekilarose]

20 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I think you're most likely right, given that it would be noteworthy that "he" had become a "she" in the download. Then again, nothing seems to faze Trevor, so not saying something isn't absolute proof in my twisty mind. IIRC, they didn't have a ton of downtime to chat about the future. But I was just asking the question and seeing if anyone remembered their interactions for definite proof. 

I just started rewatching Season 2, and caught this little nugget in the first episode. The traveler/doctor who gave Grace the nanites introduced himself as being from "Grace Hospital" and said to call him "Derek" - Grey's Anatomy shout out? 

Dr. Derek! Good guy. Well considering it's set in WA, and the hospital in Grey's is Seattle Grace....could be. Is anyone from Shondaland involved in the making of this show?

[MisterGlass]

On 1/8/2018 at 4:04 PM, Clanstarling said:

I think planned downloads kept to the gender of the Travelers, but Grace's was pretty hasty, as I recall. Which is why I started wondering, once 001switched.

It's a little hard to judge haste in time traveler terms.  I have to stop and think which end the haste was on in Grace's transfer.  She wanted to reset the Director, so presumably she had to leave the future before the Director became corrupted and time travel became difficult.  Would it have been corrupted in days?  Weeks?  Was the Faction acting against her and accelerating the time table? In the past, she had to arrive into a body that would be in the right area and to arrive before Marcy died because she needed Marcy to reset the director.  There seem to be several preventable deaths for individual travelers to choose from at any given time.  The mass transits are more complicated.

During Grace's trial it came out that she suspended travel to the past between the planned time of original Grace's death and the time that original Grace came out of hiding.  That suggests that she specifically wanted Grace's body.  If she had been planning for a few days or weeks how she wanted to reset the Director, and to enlist Ennis, then she may have had time to find a host body she liked.

All the programmers seem to be older travelers.  If they kept swapping bodies in the future, like Trevor, to maintain their knowledge base and keep working, I wonder how old they could be.

[Clanstarling]

29 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

It's a little hard to judge haste in time traveler terms.  I have to stop and think which end the haste was on in Grace's transfer.  She wanted to reset the Director, so presumably she had to leave the future before the Director became corrupted and time travel became difficult.  Would it have been corrupted in days?  Weeks?  Was the Faction acting against her and accelerating the time table? In the past, she had to arrive into a body that would be in the right area and to arrive before Marcy died because she needed Marcy to reset the director.  There seem to be several preventable deaths for individual travelers to choose from at any given time.  The mass transits are more complicated.

During Grace's trial it came out that she suspended travel to the past between the planned time of original Grace's death and the time that original Grace came out of hiding.  That suggests that she specifically wanted Grace's body.  If she had been planning for a few days or weeks how she wanted to reset the Director, and to enlist Ennis, then she may have had time to find a host body she liked.

All the programmers seem to be older travelers.  If they kept swapping bodies in the future, like Trevor, to maintain their knowledge base and keep working, I wonder how old they could be.

I rewatched Grace's arrival, and initial interactions with Trevor and Traveler 014 (the farmer guy, where they built the machine). Trevor didn't know who she was, just that she was important (traveler 027, I believe), but 014 did know her and used "her" when talking about her to Trevor, just minutes after letting them into the farmhouse. So, I'd guess that she traveled to Grace's body in a same gender swap. 

So, my "gee, could it be..." seems to be answered with - nope. Still, fun to think about and theorize - since 001 has definitely swapped gender.

[nekilarose]

1 hour ago, MisterGlass said:

 

During Grace's trial it came out that she suspended travel to the past between the planned time of original Grace's death and the time that original Grace came out of hiding.  That suggests that she specifically wanted Grace's body.  If she had been planning for a few days or weeks how she wanted to reset the Director, and to enlist Ennis, then she may have had time to find a host body she liked.

 

I think she deliberately waited for Grace,  cause if the future really sees and knows all, she would have seen how close Travis had gotten with his guidance counselor.  Which is double bingo for her, she gets to not only come back and reset the director,  but it also puts her in proximity to the team that is closest to it. She has absolutely no charm (and somehow that is so charming) so any other team may have told her to go kick rocks, but Trevor was already softened towards Grace.  Not to mention that they are both really old engineers (programmers?)

 

Also, Clanstarling, 001 is the first ever Traveler. He has gone and just said screw the "grand plan" every step of the way, as well as the protocols. His low number means he was most likely one of the earliest programmers, so if anyone could figure out a way to seamlessly switch genders when no one else has, my money would be on him. Or another of the lower numbers.

Edited January 10, 2018 by nekilarose
To complete a thought