S05.E01: Legacy

[catrox14]

16 hours ago, quarks said:

. Arrow writers, over the summer: This season, we're going back to basics! And realism!

Oliver: And in that spirit of realism, I shall SHOOT a parachute arrow.

Oh man, I laughed a good long while at this one. LOLOL

[KirkB]

Overall, I agree with the general sentiment of being whelmed. It was still better than most of last season but that's really not saying much.

The parachute arrow kind of took me out of the episode a little bit. I mean, I know it's a comic book show and all, but I was trying to work out the logistics of having a parachute in an arrow. The only thing I can come up with is something having to do with Ray's shrinking tech.

An entertaining sequence of flashbacks? I didn't think that was possible. They didn't interrupt the flow of the episode even. Thanks Anatoly.

Uggh, Laurel. You're supposed to be dead. Stop zombieing up Arrow.

I feel bad for Quentin. Not so much for Thea. She doesn't want to be a vigilante anymore, fine, but you're not really in a position to tell Oliver what to do or how to do it. He's on the team, you're not.

Speaking of Oliver, it's a good thing he was running unopposed and that nobody else wants the job (because they obviously like to live), since no one who misses every meeting and seems to only do mayoral stuff where it concerns the city's former ADA being a vigilante would be able to maintain that position for very long. Between the constant gang attacks and open police corruption it begs the question of how Star City survived as long as it did before the Green Arrow came around.

Edited October 6, 2016 by KirkB
Correcting spelling

[TwistedandBored]

I pretty much didn't expect a lot from this episode but all the Laurel sainthood crap was giving me a headache. 

I did enjoy the little of Diggle we got as well as the Olicity scenes. Like others have said, any scene with Oliver and Felicity is a Olicity scene. 

Almost forgot, I really loved Chad L. Coleman. He has such a menacing presence that I enjoyed. He just elevated scenes that would have normally been just generic bad guy talk.  

[Chaser]

On retrospect, what exactly about Felicity and Diggle was 'too spoilery' for GATV? There was nothing that hadn't been spoiled already.

No individual storyline was touched on them. 

Take Felicity. We already knew about the new Team (it's literally the promo) and the EPs all said she was for the new Team (20 bucks noone points out that she is basically the one who puts together the Team, Oliver just trains them).We all knew about the boyfriend, only his identity was secret. 

Diggle was still in the military. Okay. We knew that. 

Some of this early reviews. Smh. Even Chris Haynes. How was Thea and Curtis the MVPs? I can maybe understand Thea but Curtis? Because he got punched in the face and decided to be a superhero? Side note, weak motivation and Oliver being like 'cool' was weird to me.

[statsgirl]

Was there anything at all spoilery about Diggle?  We knew he was re-enlisting last season. And we learned nothing new about Felicity other than Mayo Tiny Hands.  Not even if she has a real job any more.

On 2016-10-05 at 10:59 PM, quarks said:

12. Was that Frank Bertinelli the same Frank Bertinelli from the first and second seasons, and if so, did he come back because of Flashpoint? Because I thought he was dead.

IMDB gives him as Pino Bertinelli, played by Vince Murdocco.  I guess Frank really is dead and his brother/cousin/uncle/nephew took over the mob.

23 hours ago, BkWurm1 said:

Despite Lance's crack about opposite's not attracting that much, I took it that Donna dumped him.  The "lost my girl" on his list made it pretty clear to me.

I know Donna isn't popular among many people but I'd really like to know the story behind that dumping.  She's too kind a person to dump him when he's mourning his daughter.  I wonder if he started drinking first.

21 hours ago, calliope1975 said:

I agree wholeheartedly. What I've always wanted is for the writers to just let these characters be and allow the actors' natural chemistry to shine. No need for manufactured drama when you are vigilantes. 

Is there ever a need for manufactured drama other than on a soap opera?  Every action/adventure/mystery show I can think of would be better without manufactured drama.

[looptab]

So, what was the scene that SA was pimping when they started shooting? Was it the fight club one? I can't remember exactly what they said about it, just that it was supposed to be the longest one shot or something.

[bijoux]

Where did he mention it? I went through his Twitter and can't see anything. I honesly have no idea what the shot in question is, nor do I really care all that much. Maybe the chair fight? It didn't seem particularly long. Could it be in the second episode since the filming of the first two overlapped?

[looptab]

I can't remember if it was at a con or in one of his FB videos. I'm thinking it's the fight club one because I seem to remember him saying the scene in question was shirtless, but it's possible I'm mixing it up with something else, so I'm not sure. Honestly, the only thing I thought during that scene was "Oh, hello again, shirtless Oliver!"

Edit: Went through the spoilers archive, I suppose it was that one. "[501]has the opportunity for us to quite literally have the most vicious, violent oner shot, which is where there is no cut, in the history of network television. I insisted that it's gonna be me, no stunt double. He says, 'fine, but you got to do it shirtless'."

Edited October 7, 2016 by looptab

[Carrie Ann]

I think it's his fight with Anarky? Maybe? I remember when they...fall through the floor or whatever happened there, I noticed that there was no edit. 

[dtissagirl]

No, there are 3 cuts in the Anarky scene. Two of them are pretty invisible, but they're there.

I think the first Russian flashback was supposed to be one biiiig long shot, but something went screwy, because there's single cut halfway through. It starts in the transition from Mr. Poppy drinking to rando Russian drinking at 5:18, and it goes without cuts until 5:45 -- right then there's a cut. Then no cuts again until 6:10.

I think the cut at 5:45 wasn't supposed to happen so that it could truly be a oner, but they cut it, so. Not a oner. More like a two-er.

Edited October 7, 2016 by dtissagirl

[looptab]

That's probably why we haven't heard anything about that since July,  then, haha.

[Midnight Lullaby]

On 06/10/2016 at 3:40 PM, Chaser said:

 

I still hate that Felicity is in the loft. Not because it's the special Olicity place or anything, but because it just doesn't make sense. I wish she had moved out and then Thea moved back in with Oliver.

Why? Thea doesn't own the loft..she was renting it as she said in ep 305 to Oliver so it makes sense to me that after the break up the person with a job that could pay the rent stayed there.

I watched the episode this morning and I thought it was nothing special..the stunts were way better and I love Anatoly but all the retconning was bizarre, killing after three years of making a big deal out of Oliver not wanting to be a killer (I think) because it's cool was too and I need Felicity to have a POV. I never know what is going on in her head and it frustrates me. They could have made her look at an article about Havenrock for example or something else, small but significant. I would accept the boyfriend, tiny hands and all, if he was used to show what she is feeling but nope, he is just there to make me feel uncomfortable when I watch them together, LOL.

I will always like the dynamic Oliver and Felicity have because the actors make it special but I'm sure Oliver will never apologize to her for what he did last year and they had a conversation about what happened between them during the hiatus so I don't even know if I want them back together or not. It feels like nothing happened and that's the type of storytelling that makes me lose interest in something.

[tarotx]

I really enjoyed the episode though I can see why others might not have.  Oliver as the main focus of a scene was how it largely went throughout the episode and the Flashbacks flowed as well as a Bamford directed episode allows. Oliver is my favorite character so that is what I come for. I wish Diggle was in it more and that Felicity didn't have a bland boyfriend. I rather her not have an outside story than her be given a bland boyfriend. That went fine season 1. Don't get me wrong I really want her to have her own story, I just want more or less.  At least give her someone dynamic. And not someone trying to be perfect which Ray was and this new bland Boyfriend appears to be headed toward. Barry Allen had that too in season 2 but Grant has the charisma to pull it off. And then Thea is more the early Laurel than early Thea or Moira. She is not Moira like they were trying to present.  We need Moira back or at least a Moira replacement. Without Diggle and Moira hello where was the Gravitas? :( Oliver and Felicity are now the adults O.o Oliver is my favorite character but no just no. And Felicity is too Felicity to have the kind of Gravitas I'm talking about. Hoping they find someone. The show really needs Gravitas. Lance is just not enough on Arrow. Especially when Oliver is presented as more the adult of the scene.

Edited October 8, 2016 by tarotx

[Chaser]

22 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

Why? Thea doesn't own the loft..she was renting it as she said in ep 305 to Oliver so it makes sense to me that after the break up the person with a job that could pay the rent stayed there.

That loft has got some bad mojo. Leave it to the Queens.

[apinknightmare]

6 minutes ago, Chaser said:

That loft has got some bad mojo. Leave it to the Queens.

I that case, Felicity can have it while she's with Tiny Hands McGee. 

[Chaser]

Maybe the mojo sent her MayoTinyHands

[tv echo]

Pic in Conahan's phone?

[BkWurm1]

Quote

Shit, Felicity is losing it, isn't she? I'm not talking about the (weirldy squeaky sounding) boyfriend, but about the part where she walks in and leaves the door wide open. What the hell?

This is one of my big TV land pet peeves.  People on TV are CONSTANTLY leaving the door wide open.  Car doors, screen doors, sliding doors, and as Felicity did, front doors as well.  It’s like they are unwilling to waste the one second on closing the door unless it’s part of the shot or writing in the script.  Drives me nuts and once to start seeing it, you start seeing it EVERYWHERE.

Quote

"Felicity can't be single because we can't think of anything else for her to do than jump on some guy's dick. Oh, and feel guilty about Haventown."

La,la,la,la, I can’t hear you!  Felicity and Detective Mayo McTinyhands (DaMMiT for short) are only together for the creepy shoulder massages (creepy but good for stiff necks after long days at the Bunker) It’s the only reasons she keeps him around, he’s cheaper than a trip to the masseuse.  She may have to kiss him on the lips at a later date to keep the neck rubs coming but it for the good of the team.  Sacrifices!! 

[thenj]

Who was the third cop?

I only remenber Mayo Lego Hair and Mr. Poppy.

[tv echo]

There were 4 good cops that Quentin said were trustworthy and not corrupt - Lt. Conahan (Ryan Williams, a/k/a Mr. Poppy), Officer Benton (Jay Hindle), Officer Fisher (?) and fourth unnamed officer (?). Those 4 cops helped the Green Arrow rescue the hostages and were made part of Oliver's Anti-Crime Unit (ACI), but Lt. Conahan was killed by Prometheus at the end.

Felicity's boyfriend is Detective Malone (Tyler Ritter), who was not made part of the ACI for some reason.

There were also a bunch of unnamed bad cops.

Edited October 7, 2016 by tv echo

[bijoux]

18 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

This is one of my big TV land pet peeves.  People on TV are CONSTANTLY leaving the door wide open.  Car doors, screen doors, sliding doors, and as Felicity did, front doors as well.  It’s like they are unwilling to waste the one second on closing the door unless it’s part of the shot or writing in the script.  Drives me nuts and once to start seeing it, you start seeing it EVERYWHERE.

You know what I actually remembered? Oliver coming home in 402, unlocking the door and then closing it before going to Felicity on the balcony. Things like that actually made sense a year ago.

7 minutes ago, thenj said:

Who was the third cop?

I only remenber Mayo Lego Hair and Mr. Poppy.

The dirty Tommy look alike who was Oliver's first kill in the present day this season.

[BkWurm1]

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 5:39 AM, looptab said:

I wonder why they cut the stuff they showed in an earlier promo - about Oliver going at it alone. I think that was way more poignant - even if it was the 127th time he was told that - and what MG referred to when saying that Laura's last words would inform the whole season, rather than this "Find a new Canary" stuff.

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:39 AM, tv echo said:

 

As for Laurel's last words to Oliver and what they mean?  After watching this episode, I don't think she was asking him to train another Black Canary. I think she was concerned that what happened to her would lead Oliver to go it alone again. Consider these exchanges from last night's episode:

Oliver: "After what happened with Laurel, how can you ask me to put more people in the crosshairs?" 
Felicity: "I am not the one who is asking, or do you not remember the promise that you made to Laurel before she died? Laurel was thinking about the future. You need to think about yours."

Laurel: "Please... please don't let me be the last Canary. That way, a part of me will always be out there with you." 
Oliver: "I promise."

Also, remember that the SDCC highlight reel back in July included a clip where Laurel says to Oliver: "I need you to promise me something. Your instinct has always been to go it alone. Ollie, you can't." That clip was cut from last night's episode, but it's an indication of where they were going with this episode - which was to convince Oliver to add newbies to his team. He promised Laurel back in the spring that he would not let her be the last Canary (meaning, the last hero vigilante fighting beside him), but then he subsequently chose to go it alone to avoid anyone else on his team getting killed.  But last night he finally left the land of denial and decided to recruit. 

Of course, I could be wrong and the EPs changed their minds since SDCC and are indeed setting the stage for a future new Black Canary and love interest for Oliver - but that would be kinda odd and icky - that Oliver would have an almost Pavlovian response to hook up with anyone called "Canary" (Sara, Laurel, new girl).

 

I'm really not sure what to make of the turn of phrase that Laurel used. Logically it should just be a stand in for saying you need to let other's help you and at this moment, that is how they are using it but it was soooo weirdly specific that I can't help think that there will be some kind of call back to it. 

It being a hedge for if LoT flops and them then wanting to bring back Sara would make sense to an extent.  That way they could have Oliver say it was Laurel's last wish basically, but that would imply the show runners could imagine NEEDING to hedge their bets and I can't see their egos telling them anything but that they were going to wildly succeed now that they've "fixed" their mistakes on Lot.  (We'll see about that).  And most of all, the hedge is not needed.  We know who Sara is. If LoT gets canceled, she can just show up whenever and her inclusion already makes sense without working so hard.  Plus if this was all about Sara, she's not available this season so the payoff would be too far down the line.

Something Canary related has to show up this season.  Now it could be as simple as they filmed Laurel's last words about there being a Canary back before they got backlash over Evelyn Sharp showing up as the Baby Canary and thus we'll see them give her the option to use the moniker only for Evelyn to decide she should pick her own name.  (My preference) It would fulfill the letter and spirit of Laurel's request.

Or their only other option is to bring in a totally new Canary.  But why would the show runners think the comic book crowd would care about such a character when she wouldn't be comic book canon?  If they'd planned it right, they could have had the Huntress show up and borrow the name for a redemption tour but that's not the vibe I've picked up. 

But again, I can't see the team needing or wanting another Canary unless one shows up that seems too good to be true and then yup, she is a bad guy and they were all so enraptured with how much she reminded them of Laurel they didn't see it until she'd turned on them.  But just setting up basically a rebooted BC seems really questionable.

Oh! How about if it's revealed that the current Dinah Lance was named after her mother Dinah Drake and Oliver goes back in time and dates her! 

 

Quote

BTW, I noticed that Laurel's pic (you know, the photo that Oliver carried around on the island) is now framed and sitting on a table in Quentin's apartment. So to track that pic's journey: Laurel > Oliver > Laurel > Oliver > Quentin.

Very possibly right but from the way that picture always looked to me, I always assumed she went to a Sears Portrait Studio and got a bunch of the same shot to give out to all her friends and family.  Her dad might have always had that picture (or did it look beat up in the frame?)

 

On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 8:40 AM, Chaser said:

I still hate that Felicity is in the loft. Not because it's the special Olicity place or anything, but because it just doesn't make sense. I wish she had moved out and then Thea moved back in with Oliver.

Shudder.  If Thea moved back in with Oliver then they probably would have had Felicity move into Laurel's apartment.  :-O

13 minutes ago, tv echo said:

There were 4 cops that Quentin said were trustworthy and not corrupt - Lt. Conahan (Ryan Williams, a/k/a Mr. Poppy), Officer Benton (Jay Hindle), Officer Fisher (?) and fourth unnamed officer (?). Those 4 cops helped the Green Arrow rescue the hostages and were made part of Oliver's Anti-Crime Unit (ACI), but Lt. Conahan was killed by Prometheus at the end.

Felicity's boyfriend is Detective Malone (Tyler Ritter), who was not made part of the ACI for some reason.

So that he can be named a replacement in next week's episode?  Pure spec, but I'm close to hat eating territory sureness. 

[bijoux]

3 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

So that he can be named a replacement in next week's episode?  Pure spec, but I'm close to hat eating territory sureness. 

Oh, he's taking that spot. If Lance wasn't so obviously earmarked for deputy mayor in this episode, I'd expect him to lead the unit, but now this dude is a shoe in. They're not going to miss the opportunity to have him interact with Oliver.

[statsgirl]

6 hours ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I watched the episode this morning and I thought it was nothing special..the stunts were way better and I love Anatoly but all the retconning was bizarre, killing after three years of making a big deal out of Oliver not wanting to be a killer (I think) because it's cool was too and I need Felicity to have a POV. I never know what is going on in her head and it frustrates me. They could have made her look at an article about Havenrock for example or something else, small but significant. I would accept the boyfriend, tiny hands and all, if he was used to show what she is feeling but nope, he is just there to make me feel uncomfortable when I watch them together, LOL

I'm still holding on to the shreds of my hope that this episode was in Flashpoint time and so Havenrock didn't happen in this universe and that's why she's not affected.  (Also if it is Flashpoint then no more bf once Barry resets time.

On the other hand, maybe Felicity's weariness when she gets home is supposed to clue us in that she's suffering from her actions wrt Havenrock.

[BkWurm1]

Just putting down something I that I've been pondering since the episode.  This is spoiler free speculation. 

So the identity of who it is in the mask dressed as a kind of Dark Archer 2.0 is totally up for grabs.  Could it actually be Tiny Hands? 

These writers totally steal from their other shows and so far it's been from Arrow and reworked on Flash but could they flip it so that Mayo is like last season's Jay, aka a supposed good guy straight shooter who might even genuinely care for the woman he's dating within the heroes' team who is later revealed to be the big bad in the mask?  

Was there anything that would rule him out for certain?  All we saw was a brief moment between Felicity and him as his hands crept around her shoulders and then scene ended.  Why couldn't he have run out to pick up some take out or something, slipped into his leathers and been there when the guy on the task force left work?  As a cop himself, he'd actually might know his schedules and what if the reason Mr. Poppy had to die was so a spot on the task force opened up?  What if White Bread Mayo is a cover he uses to try and get close to the Green Arrow?   

[apinknightmare]

I think it's a lock that Tiny Hands is going to be Mr. Poppy's replacement on the ACI team -

Spoiler

I'm almost positive there was a spoiler about that in an interview Tyler Ritter did before the premiere. 

Now, whether that's so he can die, can somehow get more active on the scene as Felicity's PD liaison, or have a cover so he can go out at night in a costume and kill people for whatever reason, I don't know. I don't think there's anything particular from this episode that rules him out - although my general sense is that he's a little too on the affable/goofy side, which eliminates him from contender as a season-long big bad. Like, once he took the mask off how could you not laugh at that guy threatening you? But I suppose anything is possible!

[BkWurm1]

7 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I think it's a lock that Tiny Hands is going to be Mr. Poppy's replacement on the ACI team -

I agree but I meant what if "oil and eggs emulsified" took out his competition to open up that spot. Or if I'm way off, what if Oliver's doppelganger at least orchestrated the opening with Mayo in mind?  So even if he's not the big bad, he might be the big bad's sidekick? 

Quote

Now, whether that's so he can die, can somehow get more active on the scene as Felicity's PD liaison, or have a cover so he can go out at night in a costume and kill people for whatever reason, I don't know.

How about all of the above? ;p :D

Edited October 7, 2016 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

I agree but I meant what if "oil and eggs emulsified" took out his competition to open up that spot. Or if I'm way off, what if Oliver's doppelganger at least orchestrated the opening with Mayo in mind?  So even if he's not the big bad, he might be the big bad's sidekick? 

I would say sidekick is probably more likely? Like, I can totally see them wanting to build in a twist like him being Promethus, and maybe his goofiness would be part of the throwing-people-off-the-scent thing, but then what to do once everyone finds out who's under that hood/mask besides die laughing? Haha. 

I think it would make more sense if he was planted to be an inside man/accomplice type. Although an ACI appointment-having inside man would seem more beneficial to someone like Tobias Church since he has general crime lord status, and Prometheus has season-long destroy Oliver Queen/Arrow personally status. But then...why would he have killed an ACI team member? Unless I suppose it was to make Oliver look bad (worse) as mayor. 

What I'm trying to say is I don't know, haha.

Edited October 8, 2016 by apinknightmare

[BkWurm1]

Quote

What I'm trying to say is I don't know, haha.

Right back at you, lol.

Maybe this theme of Legacy isn't just the Arrow's Legacy catching up to him but the Queens and maybe specifically Oliver?  What if Mask guy killed Mr. Poppy to get Mayo in close to Oliver not the Green Arrow?   Mayor Queen did vow to personally lead the task force. And Felicity's former relationship with Oliver was very public knowledge. 

Now I'm going to be disappointed if this isn't all a great big conspiracy theory. 

Edited October 8, 2016 by BkWurm1

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Maybe this theme of Legacy isn't just the Arrow's Legacy catching up to him but the Queens and maybe specifically Oliver?  What if Mask guy killed Mr. Poppy to get Mayo in close to Oliver not the Green Arrow?   Mayor Queen did vow to personally lead the task force. And Felicity's former relationship with Oliver was very public knowledge. 

I hadn't thought of that, and I don't know how I feel about it.

I could totally see them doing some thing like this, but I don't want Felicity to appear gullible or be taken advantage of in any way. I mean, I think she'd handle it fine. If Tiny Hands is being deceptive and after her for less-than-honorable reasons, then I hope that she figures that out before it's too late (although...if he's living with her and she didn't just give him a key, then it's probably already too late).

[dtissagirl]

It probably means nothing, but when Lance gave Oliver the files of his most trusted officers I was sure Tiny Hands McMayo would be one of them. And then he wasn't, so my logic here is Lance doesn't trust Mayo.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

so my logic here is Lance doesn't trust Mayo.

Do any of us tho?

I thought it was kind of weird given WM's commentary about him that he wasn't one of the OMG BEST cops around. But maybe they gave no more thought to it other than wanting to put the dude on the task force in the next ep, and needing Prometheus to murder someone bland(er) that we didn't care about as his big introduction. 

[statsgirl]

It would be awesome if Lance didn't trust him but couldn't exactly say why.  Since they've already done the "seems like a good guy and everyone trusts him; turns out to be bad" with Sebastian Blood and Laurel even before it went to Jay/Caitlin on The Flash, if they're going to do it again on Arrow, I want a good twist.   I'd also like to see how PB would handle the conflict of not wanting Felicity to be unhappy (especially since he broke up with Donna) but worried that she's going to get hurt.

I have the feeling though that Malone is going to end up being a good cop after all and Team Arrow's liaison on the force for the next few seasons. No special reason, just that this show isn't going to give me what I want and he'll end up being Ray V2.

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

 I don't think there's anything particular from this episode that rules him out - although my general sense is that he's a little too on the affable/goofy side, which eliminates him from contender as a season-long big bad. Like, once he took the mask off how could you not laugh at that guy threatening you? But I suppose anything is possible!

I think it depends on how good an actor Tyler Ritter is.  Heath Leger could go from adorably goofy in 10 Things I Hate About You to super menacing.  I don't know good Tyler Ritter is.

[BkWurm1]

Quote

I have the feeling though that Malone is going to end up being a good cop after all and Team Arrow's liaison on the force for the next few seasons. No special reason, just that this show isn't going to give me what I want and he'll end up being Ray V2.

Shhh! It's the start of the season and they haven't broken all my spirit yet!

No, deep down I know you are probably right and he's probably nothing but the Mayo he looks like and the generic brand at that, but for now, I live in well, deeply low but still not completely gone hope. 

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

I hadn't thought of that, and I don't know how I feel about it.

I could totally see them doing some thing like this, but I don't want Felicity to appear gullible or be taken advantage of in any way. I mean, I think she'd handle it fine. If Tiny Hands is being deceptive and after her for less-than-honorable reasons, then I hope that she figures that out before it's too late (although...if he's living with her and she didn't just give him a key, then it's probably already too late).

We can use Havenrock as an excuse and her normally stellar judgment is blunted by the weight of her trauma. Problem solved!

[bijoux]

If it does turn out that he's corrupt, my preferred scenario would be that he's using Felicity to get intel or get closer to either Oliver or GA (after all, she was brought in for questioning at the end of s1 and there could be breadcrumbs left after that connecting her to GA), while Felicity is simultaneously using him to get the dirt on police corruption. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

14 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm still holding on to the shreds of my hope that this episode was in Flashpoint time and so Havenrock didn't happen in this universe and that's why she's not affected.  (Also if it is Flashpoint then no more bf once Barry resets time.

On the other hand, maybe Felicity's weariness when she gets home is supposed to clue us in that she's suffering from her actions wrt Havenrock.

But Barry reversed Flashpoint at the end of the first episode so that Arrow episode is already in the new timeline (with small difference compared to the original one) he created or did I get that wrong?

I could try to read the weariness that way but honestly she looked like I look after a long day at work..

[Morrigan2575]

You are correct. Arrow.takes place in the "real" timeline which is pretty much back to normal except for a few minor differences

[tennisgurl]

Finally got around to checking this one out (honestly, I kind of forgot about it, I got so bored last season) and I am...cautiously optimistic, but I can see a lot of ways this can go wrong. 

Oliver and Felicity are being all cute and bantering and giving each other heart eyes, and no one lies about illegitimate kids or anything! They were both on point this episode, no big complaints. That actually seemed like themselves, not weirdo pod people who do things just because the plot demands it. However, I do roll about a million eyes at Felicity having some bland new love interest. Was this needed? I am just going to go ahead and say no. 

Hey Anatoly! Great seeing you! I actually LIKED a flashback! And it has actual relevance to the main plot and it was based around stuff we learned about in season 1! What even is this? Can we just get a whole show of Anatoly being awesome and helping Oliver track down bad guys? Lord knows I would rather hang out with him than Poppy and her terrible accent. I can even ignore what I am sure is going to be a never ending steam of every Russian stereotype imaginable, thats how pumped I am to leave that freaking island, and find some characters with actual personalities. 

The Dig scene was adorable. Come back, Dig! We need you!

I swear, Laurels treatment on this show is just bizarre. When she was here, she was basically an afterthought, who the writers clearly had no idea what to do with, who was killed off pointlessly and anti-climatically (after the writers tried to act like they had some plan for her). Now? She was truly the hero we deserved the whole time, who is mourned and memorialized more than any other person, including Olivers own mom. Its just baffling. 

How much I like this season is probably going to come down to how much I like the new kids. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

If LL had been a character we'd only seen a handful of times over the course of 4 seasons, the retconning maybe could have worked. But we've actually watched this character for 4 seasons and have so many examples of the opposite of what the writers are trying to sell now that it's impossible to reconcile.

[BkWurm1]

Laurel did spend a good amount of time judging others for killing.  She's her own exception to the rule. 

[statsgirl]

Laurel was always her own exception to the rule.  She held others to a standard she refused for herself because she was so convinced that she was always right.

9 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

You are correct. Arrow.takes place in the "real" timeline which is pretty much back to normal except for a few minor differences

(grumbles) Then what was the point of having "Flashpoint makes permanent changes on Arrow"?  We've been speculating that

Spoiler

baby Sara might be replaced by a boy

but other than that possibility, there seems to be no differences that I can see to the show at the end of season 4..
 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I hated all the talk about Flashpoint during the summer but not seeing any impact of it in the first episode after all the hype felt a bit anti-climactic. 

[dtissagirl]

20 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I hated all the talk about Flashpoint during the summer but not seeing any impact of it in the first episode after all the hype felt a bit anti-climactic. 

I blame Barry.

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, dtissagirl said:

I blame Barry.

Well someone has to if he or anyone else who isn't a villain doesn't 

[SmallScreenDiva]

11 minutes ago, dtissagirl said:

I blame Barry.

Totally. Effing Barry.

[Guest]

I blame Barry too, even more because he'll probably tell Felicity what happened and she'll carry the knowledge with her the whole season until the writers are ready for it to be revealed. And then she'll probably get blamed for keeping it to herself until then. LMAO.

[apinknightmare]

I figured they were waiting to reveal the Flashpoint changes until

Spoiler

Felicity went over to The Flash. Although I will laugh and laugh if after all that talk of Flashpoint and what it messes up Diggle's change is having a son instead of a daughter (or a son AND a daughter) and Felicity just has to carry around knowledge that it happened. How stupid, LOL.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I figured they were waiting to reveal the Flashpoint changes until

  Hide contents

Felicity went over to The Flash. Although I will laugh and laugh if after all that talk of Flashpoint and what it messes up Diggle's change is having a son instead of a daughter (or a son AND a daughter) and Felicity just has to carry around knowledge that it happened. How stupid, LOL.

I'm assuming

Spoiler

Felicity (and the audience) will find out Flashpoint changes in The Flash 302 but won't tell anyone on Arrow until the writers need her to at some point later in the season. And I can picture her getting a lot of blame/hate for that. 

I could be totally wrong but I trust nothing but the bus they like to run over characters with. Haha.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Guest

[Morrigan2575]

19 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

I figured they were waiting to reveal the Flashpoint changes until

  Reveal hidden contents

Felicity went over to The Flash. Although I will laugh and laugh if after all that talk of Flashpoint and what it messes up Diggle's change is having a son instead of a daughter (or a son AND a daughter) and Felicity just has to carry around knowledge that it happened. How stupid, LOL.

I think that's it, plus 

Spoiler

Oliver having long sleeves LOL