Fleabag - General Discussion

[Eri]

On 11/12/2019 at 1:10 PM, snarktini said:

How could he ignore the backhanded remarks and the way Stepmom cut down his daughters and minimized his wife? Things like saying they split up when actually the mother died. Painting a portrait but only showing the back of one's head. Leaving Claire's flowers for their mother outside. Not saying anything about her slapping his daughter. I do get what the relationship gave him and that he wanted to move on, but he was so frustratingly avoidant.

I was relieved that Claire believed her all along about who tried to kiss whom. But disappointed that she stayed with that tool anyway. So much fear in her. SUCH a low blow bringing up Boo. 

I'm right there with you....I've watched the series several times and I still can't stomach the  way the dad settled for that wretched woman and her passive aggressive treatment over his daughters. He was fearful of taking the big leap with that woman but did so anyway. It's understandable because he's lonely, but he wasn't the only one who lost someone important that day. It was especially upsetting when he had the nerve to say why daughters think their fathers screw them up when it's the other way around...no accountability, no emotional reach for being a lousy dad who couldn't be there for his daughters because he was too consumed by his own grief. It's no wonder their relationship is distant the way it is. Margaret was clearly the glue that kept the family together - she was the adventurous, funny one and he was the serious, boring one and he sees a lot of her in Fleabag so he can't get too close to her, which is a shame really.

Although I will say Olivia Coleman is so awesome in the role, if I ever wanted a wicked stepmother, I'd want it to be her!

As for Claire, I will say the only thing I hated seeing was her groveling to her husband to leave him, giving that smug bastard a taste of his own medicine would have been so much more satisfying. The sister relationship dynamic was what made the show imo.

Edited November 14, 2019 by Eri

[snarktini]

1 hour ago, Eri said:

It was especially upsetting when he had the nerve to say why daughters think their fathers screw them up when it's the other way around.

Oh, that was such an awful thing to say! WTF

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Golden Globe nominations!

Best Television Series – Musical or Comedy
Phoebe Waller-Bridge: Best Performance by an Actress in a Television Series – Musical or Comedy
Adam Scott: Best Performance by an Actor in a Supporting Role in a Series, Limited Series or Motion Picture Made for Television

Edited December 9, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Critics' Choice Award nominations!

Best Comedy Series

Best Actress in a Comedy Series – Phoebe Waller-Bridge

Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series – Andrew Scott

Best Supporting Actress in a Comedy Series – Sian Clifford

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Screen Actors Guild Award nomination:

Outstanding Performance by a Male Actor in a Comedy Series - Andrew Scott

Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series - Phoebe Waller-Bridge

Outstanding Performance by an Ensemble in a Comedy Series

Edited December 12, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Quickbeam]

 Just finished the last 3 episodes of season 2. I think they were the strongest of the series. For all the awards chatter for Phoebe and Olivia, I think Bill Paterson was astonishing. I've love him since Comfort and Joy in the 1980s. And the sister (actor named Sian Clifford) does an amazing job with a very challenging role. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Claire: Won't you get cold [without a shirt]?
Fleabag: No, I've got really hairy nipples.

Fleabag: To be fair, [my godmother] isn't an evil stepmother. She's just a cunt.

Fleabag: I'm not obsessed with sex. I just can't stop thinking about it.

Yoga Girl: I'm so happy with my body now. I don't have to define myself by how I look because I've just got a fucking great body.

Fleabag: Wow, no papers. 
Claire: You don't read the news. 
Fleabag: Yes, I do! 
Claire: What happened yesterday?
Fleabag: Sting wore white jeans and a puppy got stuck in a fan. Big day.

Fleabag: What's that for? 
Claire: My neck and chest. 
Fleabag: What's that for? 
Claire: My legs and knees. 
Fleabag: What's that for? 
Claire: Ends of my hair. 
Fleabag: What's that? 
Claire: For my under eyes. What's that? 
Fleabag: That is for my face and body. What would you do if someone stole all of those?
Claire: I'd kill myself.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Dad: Do you see your brother?
Priest: Oh, I don't really speak to my brother.
Godmother: Oh gawd, how desperately sad! Why is that?
Priest: Oh, um, well-
Dad: You don't have to-
Priest: No, that's okay.
Godmother: Does he not approve of what you do, of your choices?
Priest: No, it's not that, it's not that.
Godmother: Is he not in the church?
Priest: No, he's not in the church.
Godmother: Oh, it must be so hard!
Priest: Well, it's mainly hard-
Godmother: Is it cause he's mummy's favourite?
Priest: Because he's a paedophile.
Godmother: Oh.
Priest: I'm aware of the irony of that.

Godmother: A lot of people would say praying is just talking to yourself in the dark.
Priest: I guess it could look like that but, no, it's more just about connecting with yourself at the end of each day. It takes a bit of effort, but-
Claire: Yes, yes, I completely agree. Positive energy takes work. In the last six months, I've excelled. I take all the negative emotions and just bottle them and bury them and they never come out.
Priest: I'm not sure-
Claire: I've basically never been better.
Godmother: Us neither.
Martin: I feel fantastic!
Priest: You're a very positive family, I must say.
Claire: I think it's all about positivity. It takes real commitment to be this happy. It's not just about eating and drinking well, either. Putting pine nuts on your salad doesn't make you a grown up.
Fleabag: It fucking does.

Priest: What do you do?
Claire: Oh, I work in finance.
Dad: What?
Fleabag: What?
Claire: Across two firms - one in Finland and one here.
Fleabag: No, no, she's a lawyer.
Godmother: I thought you were a lawyer?
Claire: No.
Martin: What?
Claire: I work with lawyers. I'm not a lawyer.
Dad: Darling, you are a solicitor.
Claire: I went to business school.

Edited December 29, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Counselor: So why have you come to the session?
Fleabag: Oh, it was a birthday present from my father.
Counselor: Is that a joke?
Fleabag: No.
Counselor: It would be good not to make jokes in here - just in case anything gets lost in humorous translation.
Fleabag: Oh, I don't know if I can do that.
Counselor: Is that a joke?
Fleabag: No.
Counselor: Just try not to. Or make it very obvious.
Fleabag: Sure.
Counselor: So why do you think your father suggested you come for counseling?
Fleabag: I think because my mother died and he can't talk about it and my sister and I didn't speak for a year because she thinks I tried to sleep with her husband and because I spent most of my adult life using sex to deflect from the screaming void inside my empty heart. I'm good at this.

Fleabag: I want to fuck a priest. 
Counselor: Catholic? 
Fleabag: Yes.
Counselor: A good one? 
Fleabag: Yes.
Counselor: Looks good in the? 
Fleabag: Yes.
Counselor: I understand. Do you really want to fuck the priest or do you want to fuck God? 
Fleabag: Can you fuck God? 
Counselor: Oh, yes.
Fleabag: Look, just please tell me how to not fuck a priest before I get arrested.
Counselor: Well, I don't think fucking a priest will make you feel as powerful as you think it will. 
Fleabag: Can you just tell me what to do?
Counselor: You know. You already know what you're going to do. Everybody does.
Fleabag: What?
Counselor: You've already decided what you're going to do.
Fleabag: So what's the point in you?
Counselor: You know what you're going to do. 
Fleabag: No, I don't. 
Counselor: Yes, you do. 
Fleabag: I don't! 
Counselor: You do.
Fleabag: I don't, I don't!
Counselor: You do!

Martin: [Claire] and I have never been better. You had a big part in that.
Fleabag: I'm happy for you. I'm happy you've found a way to deflect from your pitiful, self-sabotaging, ego-driven, masturbatory - I cannot believe how well this is coming out - pawing, insidious, insidious, overwhelming mediocrity, only to finally figure out that at your very core, you are a weaky. Damn!

Edited December 31, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Sylvia: Four CEOs have been fired. Two are being taken to court. I mean, it's just sad. We felt like a family.
Fleabag: Yeah. Especially sad when you have to tell your family not to touch each other up by the photocopier.

Belinda: Oh, I love courgette. You can treat them appallingly and they still grow.

Belinda: I was in an airplane the other day and I realized - well, I mean, I've been longing to say this out loud. Women are born with pain built in. It's our physical destiny. Period pains, sore boobs, childbirth, you know. We carry it within ourselves throughout our lives. Men don't. They have to seek it out. They invent all these gods and demons and things just so they can feel guilty about things which is something we also do very well on our own. And then they create wars so they can feel things and touch each other and when there aren't any wars they can play rugby. And we have it all going on in here, inside. We have pain on a cycle for years and years and years and then just when you feel you are making peace with it all, what happens? The menopause comes. The fucking menopause comes and it is the most most wonderful fucking thing in the world! And, yes, your entire pelvic floor crumbles and you get fucking hot and no one cares but then you're free. No longer a slave, no longer a machine with parts. You're just a person in business.
Fleabag: Oh. I was told it was horrendous.
Belinda: It is horrendous, but then it's magnificent.

Edited December 31, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Priest: Why would you believe in something awful when you could believe in something wonderful?

Fleabag: I sometimes worry that I wouldn't be such a feminist if I had bigger tits.

Priest: What do guinea pigs do?
Fleabag: They are born, they shit themselves with fear, and then they die.

Priest: Are you a nostalgic person?
Fleabag: Yeah. 
Priest: Do you like Winnie the Pooh? 
Fleabag: Yeah.
Priest: I fucking love Winnie the Pooh. I can't read a Winnie the Pooh quote without crying. Fuck. Piglet.

Priest: Look at it. That's the first one I ever got. I went all the way to Rome for that. Such a nerd! Two years before I was even allowed to wear it, but I just I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait! I knew I wanted a bold, you know, this color, but proper plum. You can only get proper plum in Italy. Sometimes I worry I'm only in it for the outfits.

Priest: You go in there. I go in there.
Fleabag: And you make me tell you all my secrets so you can ultimately trap and control me?
Priest: Yeah! No, you tell me what's weighing on your heart and I listen without judgment and in complete confidence. 
Fleabag: Sounds dodgy.

Fleabag: Why would I tell you my sins? 
Priest: Because it will make you feel better. And because I want to know.
Fleabag: Okay. I lied.
Priest: Okay.
Fleabag: To you. 
Priest: About? 
Fleabag: About the miscarriage. I was just covering for my sister who actually had the miscarriage because her husband didn't know she was pregnant and it just-
Priest: Okay. Keep going.
Fleabag: And I've stolen things. I've had a lot of sex outside of marriage. And once or twice inside someone else's. And there's been a spot of sodomy. Um, there's been much masturbation, a bit of violence, and of course the endless fucking blasphemy.
Priest: And? Go on. 
Fleabag: And I can't-
Priest: It's okay, go on. 
Fleabag: I'm frightened. 
Priest: Of what?
Fleabag: Forgetting things. People. Forgetting people. And I'm ashamed of not knowing what I-
Priest: What you want? It's okay not to know what you want.
Fleabag: No, I know what I want. I know exactly what I want right now.
Priest: What's that?
Fleabag: It's bad.
Priest: It's okay.
Fleabag: I want someone to tell me what to wear in the morning.
Priest: Okay, well, I think there are people who can-
Fleabag: No, I want someone to tell me what to wear every morning. I want someone to tell me what to eat, what to like, what to hate, what to rage about, what to listen to, what band to like, what to buy tickets for, what to joke about, what not to joke about. I want someone to tell me what to believe in, who to vote for, and who to love, and how to tell them. I just think I want someone to tell me how to live my life, Father, because so far I think I've been getting it wrong. And I know that's why people want people like you in their lives. Because you just tell them how to do it. You just tell them what to do and what they'll get out of the end of it. Even though I don't believe your bullshit and I know that scientifically nothing I do makes any difference in the end anyway, I'm still scared. Why am I still scared? So just tell me what to do. Just fucking tell me what to do, Father!
Priest: Kneel.
Fleabag: What?
Priest: Kneel. Just kneel.

Edited December 31, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Martin: I know you look at me and you see a bad man with a big beard.
Claire: You are an alcoholic and you tried it on with my sister.
Martin: Fine. I tried to kiss your sister on her birthday.
Claire: MY birthday!
Martin: Fine! I mix up birthdays and I have an alcohol problem just like everyone else in this fucking country. But I am here and I do things. I pick up Jake up from shit, I make dessert for Easter, I organize the downstairs toilet, I fired the humming cleaner. 
Claire: You enjoyed that. 
Martin: I hoover the car. I put up all your certificates and I don't make you feel guilty for not having sex with me. I am not a bad guy! I just have a bad personality. It's not my fault. Some people are born with fucked personalities. Look at Jake. He is so creepy. It's not his fault. Why the bassoon? You want to know what the bassoon is? It's a cry for help! The main fucking problem here is that you don't like me. And that has been breaking my fucking heart for 11 years. I love you. I make you laugh. I'm a douche, but I make you laugh. You said that that was the most important thing! I think the thing that you hate the most about yourself is that you actually love me.

Priest: So it turns out it's quite hard to come up with something original to say about love. But I've had a go. Love is awful! It's awful. It's painful. It's frightening. Makes you doubt yourself, judge yourself, distance yourself from the other people in your life. Make you selfish. Makes you creepy. Makes you obsessed with your hair. Makes you cruel. Makes you say and do things you never thought you would do. It's all any of us want and it's hell when we get there. So no wonder it's something we don't want to do on our own. I was taught if we're born with love, then life is about choosing the right place to put it. People talk about that a lot, it feeling right. "When it feels right it's easy." But I'm not sure that's true. It takes strength to know what's right. And love isn't something that weak people do. Being a romantic takes a hell of a lot of hope. I think what they mean is when you find somebody that you love, it feels like hope.

Edited December 31, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

When the priest was showing Fleabag the purple robe and talking about how he went all the way to Rome to get it two years before he could wear it, I thought he was partly trying to show her how important being a priest is to him as a warning to remind her that what she wanted could not happen. I mean, the need for the perfect plum aside, he loves what he does so much that he went to Italy to buy this robe while was still in training because he was THAT excited to become ordained. Would he really give that up for someone he's known for a week or two?

On 10/3/2016 at 5:03 AM, Thog said:

If you stick with it you'll find that the awkward sex scenes were not gratuitous - they very much spoke to the character and how she sees herself as worth nothing and having nothing to offer but her body.

Maybe it's because I watch a lot of non-network shows with a fair amount of sex/nudity (Game of Thrones, for example) but compared to a lot of those other shows, I didn't find the sex scenes in Fleabag to be gratuitous. I mean, Game of Thrones had sexposition scenes where they showed fucking in a brothel while a man monologued on and on. To me that's gratuitous because what the character said did not have to be said in a brothel or while showing people having sex. It was showing sex and nudity for the sake of showing sex and nudity. But in Fleabag, the sex scenes are to show you who Fleabag is. She is the kind of person who has sex with men she barely knows because her self-worth is tied up in sex.

On 5/22/2019 at 8:57 AM, OldButHappy said:

I thought that Fleabag works for me where Girls and Divorce do not. Even though Fleabag's character flaws had much more disastrous consequences, they were much more relateable than anything written into the HBO shows. I had empathy for our unlikely heroine, without any of the ick factor that I get from Girl's Hannah or the I'm-so-lovably-quirky shtick of Divorces's SJP.  Dark comedy is a real tightrope for writers, and, for me, this show hits it out of the park.

I agree. I couldn't stand Hannah or anyone on Girls. Even though Fleabag makes some terrible decisions, I find her so much more understandable and relatable. When I could see she was about to do something shitty, I was covering my eyes and mentally screaming, "NOOOOO!" but I could see why she was doing it (as opposed to Hannah and her friends who were just straight up self centered assholes).

On 6/4/2019 at 5:14 AM, nachomama said:

I had no qualms about flirting with the priest or even the priest flirting back. I had major MAJOR issues with his first move coming right after her confession when she was so vulnerable. That warranted a hug not "kneel". Even though he doesn't know what it was exactly she couldn't confess, it wasn't a turn on in any way. That was blatantly abuse of power when she was most vulnerable.

I saw it very differently. She had just confessed that she wanted someone to tell her what to do because she felt like she had fucked up her life in every way possible with her bad decisions. His response was to give her exactly what she wanted - he told her what to do. When he kissed her, he was doing the same thing. He was taking away the responsibility and guilt she would have had if it had been her decision and she had made the first move.

On 11/12/2019 at 10:10 AM, snarktini said:

I was disappointed in their Dad. How could he ignore the backhanded remarks and the way Stepmom cut down his daughters and minimized his wife? Things like saying they split up when actually the mother died. Painting a portrait but only showing the back of one's head. Leaving Claire's flowers for their mother outside. Not saying anything about her slapping his daughter. I do get what the relationship gave him and that he wanted to move on, but he was so frustratingly avoidant.

He was willfully ignorant about the way she treated Fleabag. It's one thing to turn a deaf ear to her passive aggressive comments but I thought he would say something when he saw her slap his daughter across the face, but NOPE. That was when I knew that nothing would stop his relationship with the godmother. If you can watch someone physically abuse your child without a word or a rebuke, well, fuck you. Yes, Fleabag is an adult who can speak for yourself but that's just shit parenting. She shouldn't HAVE to say anything.

I was actually worried that the godmother was abusing him because there were so many little hints dropped throughout the show, like when Fleabag knocked over the tray of hors d'oeuvres in the kitchen and he immediately started to pick them up and said that the godmother mustn't know because she would be really angry or when she kept interrupting him and dismissing his comments about when they were in Japan. If the situation were reversed and we saw a male character treating a female character like that, many people would assume there was some level of abuse in their relationship (and with good reason because those are two HUGE red flags). I thought he was afraid of the godmother, not in love with her.

Edited December 31, 2019 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Enginerd]

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I saw it very differently. She had just confessed that she wanted someone to tell her what to do because she felt like she had fucked up her life in every way possible with her bad decisions. His response was to give her exactly what she wanted - he told her what to do. When he kissed her, he was doing the same thing. He was taking away the responsibility and guilt she would have had if it had been her decision and she had made the first move.

I agree; I didn't think it was an abuse of power. She is not a religious believer. She doesn't see him as an authority figure. What she wanted was to be able to be open and honest with someone she really connected with and for it to be okay. In the rest of her life, as much as everyone always thinks she's a sassy brat, she spends a lot of time tiptoeing around other people, especially in her family, and being told that everything she does is wrong. The priest was making it clear that it isn't a flaw for her to want what she wants (him), even if their relationship isn't going anywhere for reasons. The attraction was mutual, not dysfunction on her part. They actually have the sort of honest connection that makes for a healthy sexual relationship...if not for his circumstances, whereas with her other hookups, she's been very detached, not really even a present participant in the moment. She's horribly lonely but deals with it by mechanically seeking sex and then distancing herself. This was different. Also, she leaned in first before he kissed her.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Two Golden Globe Awards!

• Best television series — Musical or comedy
• Best performance by an actress in a television series — Comedy - Phoebe Waller-Bridge, "Fleabag"

Edited January 6, 2020 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Best series acceptance speech:

Phoebe Waller-Bridge's acceptance speech:

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Andrew Scott at the Golden Globes (the caption cracked me up):

 

[jrzy]

I just binged both seasons, after hearing a lot about the series and finally signing up for Amazon Prime.  Season 1 made me a little impatient but it kept getting better and more interesting and then season 2 just blew me away.  I don't think we need a 3rd season,  I think everything needing saying was said.  But what a treat and what an amazing series.  So many things hit home for me personally with loneliness and family dysfunction,  but shown in such a funny and clever way.  Unfortunately since I had read reviews I was spoiled on some of the more revealing moments of the show,  I really wish I had gone in knowing nothing. 

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by jrzy

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Critics' Choice Awards!

Best Comedy Series

Best Actress in a Comedy Series – Phoebe Waller-Bridge

Best Supporting Actor in a Comedy Series – Andrew Scott

[jeansheridan]

Phoebe finally won for acting! Woohoo. Because she was fearless in Series 1. She's less messy in Series 2 but you really need to see both series to appreciate the arc. 

I cannot wait for her next tv project. I hope she assembles her crack team again and does something different but equally intimate and edgy.

BTW, since I am not of the UK, did the characters in Fleabag read VERY upper crust? Because I do love she had a very small restaurant and Boo sounded not quite so fancy but everyone else around them seemed very rich to me.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SAG Award!

Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series - Phoebe Waller-Bridge

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

Phoebe finally won for acting!

She's actually won for her acting on Fleabag before tonight:

2017 BAFTA - Best Female Performance in a Comedy
2019 Emmy - Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series
2020 Golden Globe - Best Actress in a Television Series Musical or Comedy
2020 Critics' Choice Awards - Best Actress in a Comedy Series

[jeansheridan]

On 1/19/2020 at 10:42 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

She's actually won for her acting on Fleabag before tonight:

Thank you! I thought she kept winning for writing, not acting.

[DianeDobbler]

Just binged 2 seasons of this thing. Part of me feels that "Chewing Gum" did a lot of it first while focusing on  a lower income bracket - the laying groundwork, plotting, paying off the groundwork is every bit as brilliant as Fleabag. One woman show, conspirator with the camera, sex-obsessed but as a way to illuminate cultural burdens on women - all there.  Everything beautifully resolved (thematically if not personally, just like Fleabag).

That said, Fleabag is also wonderful and Episode 1 of Season 2 was insanely good.

My favorite part of the priest relationship was Fleabag starting to take spirituality a bit seriously - or at least having a curiosity - instead of it just being the priest tempted. The way it played within the value system of the show, it didn't make a sensational hoo ha out of the priest's violation of his celibacy vows. It was a "sin" but also human, and priests (those that aren't pedophiles) are human, and it didn't make him a hypocrite. He was tempted, he fell in love, he had sex, but his faith and his love for his vocation was steadfast. As a character point, I thought that was essential, otherwise it's just soap opera.

Loved Fleabag but also spent most of my viewing time rooting like  crazy for Claire to break out and break free. So glad that happened. Loved that sister relationship. The Boo reveal in S1 was also absolutely perfect as an organizing principle for Fleabag's acting out.

Dad and Godmom. Godmom was godawful, clearly terribly jealous of Fleabag, likely because Fleabag resembled Dad's dead wife (despite the remarks about Mom looking more like Claire than Fleabag). I thought there was a lot more very dry, shorthand and  nonexplicit communication between Dad and daughters than is sometimes recognized, and they all understood each other despite wishing life choices were different. I understood what he meant when he said daughters screw up fathers more - so much implied. The guilt, responsibility coupled with the boundaries and expectations - hell.

While Godmom WAS awful, I'm glad the wedding went through. At the end of the day she's probably right. She'll care for the dad while Claire and Fleabag probably don't want to be showing up for end stage day to day geriatric caretaking (they'll show up, but won't be tasked with being principal caretakers). Godmom has a lot of energy. She's passive aggressive, sure - there are worse things, and both Claire and Fleabag are sharp as tacks and know exactly what's going on. Fleabag clearly enjoys sharpening her teeth vis a vis a few of Godmom's gambits. Godmom WAS talented, by the admission of both stepdaughters, and as appalling as her sexhibition was, I completely believed in the Japan tour. I also felt all three women (Godmother, Claire, Fleabag) had fallen into a rhythm by the time Godmother asked them to find dad to begin the ceremony. Godmother obviously wants to control dad and have her own way, Dad is willing to be controlled, but as well Godmother is ok with the daughters showing up as long as she can get her shots in, which, if Claire and Fleabag ever choose, can go in one ear and out the other. It's a good deal for dad - an extra infusion of money, a wife with a lot of energy whom (I guess?) genuinely, weirdly loves him and is prepared to do the necessary caretaking when the time comes. It just seems workable to me, and funny, and of course God mother is obnoxious, but there are worse remarriages than that.

Edited January 23, 2020 by DianeDobbler

[ElectricBoogaloo]

5 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

Part of me feels that "Chewing Gum" did a lot of it first while focusing on  a lower income bracket - the laying groundwork, plotting, paying off the groundwork is every bit as brilliant as Fleabag. One woman show, conspirator with the camera, sex-obsessed but as a way to illuminate cultural burdens on women - all there.  Everything beautifully resolved (thematically if not personally, just like Fleabag).

I loved Chewing Gum and I was so excited when it got added to Netflix in the United States because I'd hoped that it would get a larger audience and become an international hit (which is exactly what ended up happening with Schitt's Creek when it finally got added to Netflix in 2017).

[DianeDobbler]

8 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

loved Chewing Gum and I was so excited when it got added to Netflix in the United States because I'd hoped that it would get a larger audience and become an international hit (which is exactly what ended up happening with Schitt's Creek when it finally got added to Netflix in 2017).

I was hoping for a third Chewing Gum season but that's not going to happen. Everything on that show was perfect; every story for every character played out according to the stakes that were originally set and the subsequent choices made by each character. And, it was hilarious and shocking in the absolute best way (the reveal about Connor's live-in girlfriend had me on the floor.)

I think there are probably marketing reasons Fleabag took off in the states more than Chewing Gum - race and the more advertising-friendly, more glamorous demographic Fleabag focused on, to name two. Apparently the Fleabag character has become a style icon. Phoebe Waller-Bridge said she ultimately did not deal with the unlikelihood of Fleabag being able to afford the flat she lived in, but when I read the costume designer's description of how he assembled Fleabag's clothes so that "everything was affordable" I lifted an eyebrow.  A mostly broke, struggling cafe owner cannot afford the high street. Sometimes costume designers behave as if people with money do designer labels, and people without do High Street, when it's more like people who are wealthy often have designer pieces, people like Claire do High Street and some designer, people with good paying jobs do high street, people who are mostly broke make do and don't purchase dresses at Reformation which are upwards of $200.00, nor do they get "pieces" at Reiss. Of course I'm speaking of people who are not obsessed with clothes and not strategizing to get designer pieces no matter what their income.

The dress Fleabag wore to her mother's funeral was over 400.00. Of course there's the famous Topshop jumpsuit which is more like it, particularly as Fleabag's cafe was doing well at that point.

There was a time when a character like Godmom would have made me crazy, but I'm at the point where I see her and think there's manageable crazy. I can absolutely see the benefits for the dad. Fleabag likes to poke the bear and mess with Godmother - if she didn't engage it would be easier. Each thinks the other is after undermining their relationship with the dad. I imagine Fleabag reminds Godmother a ton of Fleabag's late mother. And Fleabag could have declined to be a cater waiter at Godmother's sexhibition.  Godmother did do Fleabag a favor when at the portrait sitting she suggested Claire could use Fleabag's cafe to cater the upcoming corporate award event, so that was a good deed done there.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

@DianeDobbler I agree with your entire post. I think that class and race definitely played a HUGE role in Fleabag vs. Chewing Gum. And it drives me crazy when tv characters are supposed to be broke/barely scraping by, yet they're dressed in expensive clothes without any explanation. At least on this season of Shameless, they explained Debbie's fancy clothes because she was charging them, wearing them, and then returning them. But I remember on Glee, they were always talking about how they had no money (and many of them came from working class families) so they had to do bake sales and fundraisers so they could pay for a bus to take them to a competition. Meanwhile they were wearing different expensive designer dresses at every competition/performance. I

[DianeDobbler]

On 1/23/2020 at 1:21 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I agree with your entire post. I think that class and race definitely played a HUGE role in Fleabag vs. Chewing Gum. And it drives me crazy when tv characters are supposed to be broke/barely scraping by, yet they're dressed in expensive clothes without any explanation.

Not only is Fleabag dressed in numerous expensive clothes, in interviews the wardrobe designer pretends they're not expensive! Pretends this is what a struggling, broke cafe owner would wear. NO. No matter what the show wanted to communicate with Fleabag's attire for her mom's funeral, she wouldn't have close to 500.00 for a funeral dress. She wouldn't wear Reformation (at her dad's wedding). She wouldn't even wear COS (every piece sold there between 100.00 and multiples of 100.00). She'd be dressing like Boo. The High Street is expensive. It's not a fallback for people with no money! Designer is not a default for people who have stable jobs, but oh, I have to cut corners so I'll shop High Street and make do with a cardigan from Whistles! Yes, there were a few pieces that were arguably affordable for Phoebe's circumstances, but the show frequently cheated. And it's such an excuse! "Oh, we needed to communicate this or that for the character, therefore we needed to spend this!" Nope.  A broke woman in only a dress she can afford for her mom's funeral communicates so much more, as Chewing Gum did all the time.

And p.s., Fleatbag couldn't afford "Agent Provacateur business" (a line of sexy, high street priced lingerie).

Which is another reason I favor Chewing Gum. Michaela Cole never cheated. These are very poor people, and their lives unfold like poor people's lives. But the people are smart, funny, interesting. The principle characters live in a council flat complex. At the end of Season 1, Tracy has left her family's council flat apartment, Connor has walked out of his, and they walk off together "into the sunset".

In Season 2, it's some time later, Tracy is working at a convenience store, Connor comes in, and we get a flashback of what happened after they walked off into the sunset - the whole thing took place in a homeless shelter! No patting on the back, no "special episode" - just, these are unemployed, dead broke council flat residents who just walked out and they don't have money. Not - don't have decent money. Don't have ANY money. The episode wasn't about them being poor, no money, in a homeless shelter. It was just set there because that's where they'd logically end up given what happened previously. They continued with the storyline which wasn't about homelessness and money or being temporarily homeless. It's just if Tracy and Connor each left home, there is logically no other place for them to have gone at that time, and Michaela Cole respected that.

Back to Fleabag - at times I was curious and also puzzled as to what Godmother saw in Dad that made her determined to have him. Don't give me penis jokes Phoebe Waller-Bridge. The house was nice, particularly for today's London, but Godmother seemed quite successful, also quite attracted to hot young men, and maybe more the sort who'd have a boy toy. There was that throwaway joke when dad said things were tight so he couldn't pitch in to Fleabag's cafe, and when she asked about a picture on a bookshelf he said, "That's a little house we're buying in France." so one of the two had money.

Back to Godmother (I was just mesmerized by Olivia Colman's nonsense in the role). Fleabag doesn't do what she doesn't want to do. She was at loose ends, and I think fighting with Godmother helped fill the time. She didn't have to steal the statue - who cares - it's Godmother's work. She didn't have to pose for the sitting of the sister portrait and again, who cares, it's Godmother's thing, not the last word on Fleabag and Claire. And as far as the cater waiter debacle at the sexhibition, Fleabag took the tray and accepted the name badge. Any sensible adult could have either outright refused or simply said something chickenshit but convenient like, "Couldn't possibly, always drop everything, wouldn't want to create a mess." and scuttled somewhere else.

Edited January 26, 2020 by DianeDobbler

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

Not only is Fleabag dressed in numerous expensive clothes, in interviews the wardrobe designer pretends they're not expensive! Pretends this is what a struggling, broke cafe owner would wear. NO. No matter what the show wanted to communicate with Fleabag's attire for her mom's funeral, she wouldn't have close to 500.00 for a funeral dress.

It's bad enough to dress a character who is clearly not at a high paying job in expensive clothes, but to have the wardrobe people pretend that they aren't expensive here in the real world is ludicrous.

And really, they could have explained/rationalized Fleabag wearing a few nice things quite easily and gotten away with it. They could have had Fleabag's funeral dress explained with one quick line to her sister: "Thanks for letting me borrow this." Or at some point in the series she could have mentioned that she goes to a consignment shop in the posh part of town where rich people sell their clothes after wearing them once. She could say she talked someone at a fancy shop into letting her use their employee discount to buy an expensive outfit (or maybe some random guy she slept with said he was quitting his job at a fancy shop and asked if she wanted to abuse his discount).

I mean, that's just off the top of my head so I'm sure the writers could come up with a few more ideas. And they didn't have to waste a whole scene showing how she acquired these clothes. One quick line would take less than ten seconds and then we would understand why she wasn't wearing cheap crap from H&M.

I agree that Tracy was believably poor and dealing with it in a very real way from her clothes and her job to where she lived (both the council estate and the homeless shelter).

Putting Fleabag in expensive clothes and a decent apartment with her own business is almost glamorizing her genteel poverty. Sure, you can be broke and still afford all this! I think people who have never struggled for money don't really get what that actually entails.

[Enginerd]

Some of her expensive clothes could make sense, since the rest of Fleabag's family seems fairly affluent. Gifts from Claire or her Dad, for example, or the funeral dress may have been something paid for by her parents in her younger, still-getting-launched years, or maybe even specifically for the funeral. Maybe the Agent Provacateur business was a gift from a repeat partner...Pretentious Bathtub Guy seems like a candidate. 

It wouldn't make sense if she was poor and came from a poor family, though, unless she really lucked out with free or cheap castoffs from other people. 

The apartment really doesn't make any sense, though. How can she afford that? 

[DianeDobbler]

15 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Putting Fleabag in expensive clothes and a decent apartment with her own business is almost glamorizing her genteel poverty. Sure, you can be broke and still afford all this! I think people who have never struggled for money don't really get what that actually entails.

It's very typical for TV and Waller Bridge addressed this by saying she didn't want to struggle with the financial logistics for Fleabag to afford that flat so she gave herself permission to ignore it. I was also, at times, curious who was running the cafe when Fleabag was off doing something else during cafe hours. Did they introduce waitstaff? I don't think so because she had to recruit the small loans guy at one point.

As talented as Waller Bridge is, IMO Michaela Cole wins because she never skirted the financial realities - an obstacle every single show I can think of  succumbs to because these shows want to write what's convenient to write and they find the financial logistics oppressive. But Cole - dialogue, structure, pay offs, knock your socks off, jaw hitting the floor - all earned, all supported by the story structure and plot developments - and Cole never skirted the challenges of being poor.  The succession of events in the homeless shelter bathroom - I couldn't breathe they were so crazy, so real, and so hilarious.

Also as you say they didn't have to do a Cole and make Fleabag's wardrobe part of the plot structure - a couple of lines of dialogue would have handled it.

But I also think a show like Fleabag is aspirational while pretending to maybe more authenticity and "relatability" than it has, and that's another reason it sells. We can tell ourselves it's oh so real and relatable when the fantasy aspects are what's marketing it. Many reviewers have pointed out the surreal glamour of the opening shot of S2, and how the women buying that jumpsuit weren't just buying the jumpsuit, but wanted to own the whole vibe of that shot. Fantasy. It's very well done and I enjoyed it, just chafed at some of the by products ,such as the congratulations for giving Fleabag a real working girl's wardrobe.

Edited January 27, 2020 by DianeDobbler

[cardigirl]

On 7/25/2019 at 12:19 PM, WAnglais1 said:

A lot of comedy folks who I respect raved about this. I tuned it in and thought it was okay, until S1Ep5 and the visit to her father's house. The whole thing with step mom was okay, until FB released the pet into the wild. I loathe when any show does a disservice to animals, so I'm out. I don't care how lonely you really are.

I hated Fleabag for that. Her sly sideways smile at the camera like she’s so clever and all that. Ugh.

 

Edited February 24, 2020 by cardigirl
Deleted duplicate post.

[cardigirl]

On 8/5/2019 at 3:03 AM, Slovenly Muse said:

Public Service Announcement:

I was delighted to discover today that Phoebe Waller-Bridge has revived her one-woman play "Fleabag" (that the show is based on) for a very limited run in London, AND that National Theatre Live will be broadcasting it to cinemas! So if you live somewhere where your local movie theatre sometimes broadcasts the Metropolitan opera or other live events, you might have the chance to see the original play performed by PWB herself in London's West End! I checked, and it's playing in my town for one screening only later in September, and I live in a small town in Canada, so chances are good it's coming to your town too! Don't miss out!

The link to NTL is here, and may have more information about where you can see the show!

Is this the version of the show where she kills the guinea pig by crushing it to death?

[Rickster]

14 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I hated Fleabag for that. Her sly sideways smile at the camera like she’s so clever and all that. Ugh.

 

Actually, I have always thought that PWB’s ability to deliver that sideways glance is responsible for about half the success of this show.

[cardigirl]

1 hour ago, Rickster said:

Actually, I have always thought that PWB’s ability to deliver that sideways glance is responsible for about half the success of this show.

I'm sure it was, but in that instance it made me want to punch her in the face.  🙂 

Just one person's response. I know she was hitting out at her godmother, but the cat didn't deserve to be turned loose. Just bugged me. 

[jeansheridan]

I liked Chewing Gum but felt it was repetitive. And I couldn't stand the lead character by the end of the series. She seemed way too needy to me. It was interesting to see lower income people. American television has done that well since the 1970s to be honest. Roseanne kind of touched on some issues but they still had a house.

I love that Cynthia was in PWB other series Crashing, playing a fabulous young professional but with the same I will not be messed with glare.

 

[maddie965]

I adore Fleabag with every fiber of my being. The second season may be my favorite season of every series ever. Those articles say it better than I ever could.

https://amp.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/apr/08/farewell-fleabag-the-most-electrifying-devastating-tv-in-years

https://www.vulture.com/2019/05/fleabag-season-2-fourth-wall-ending.html

I have one question though. I see everyone referring to Boo as a friend, or best friend.  I always assumed F (can't call her Fleabag, too strange) and Boo were in a romantic relatioship. I thought they were a couple, and very much in love. Then, when Boo fell in love with someone else, F got jealous, and that's why she had sex with him. But maybe I got it all wrong...

Also, did Boo kill herself or was that an accident? I would say accident, but I'm not so sure. I don't think we got a definite answer. 

One more: does the fox symbolise anything? I love the fox so much.

Ok. Going to watch last episode again. I've lost count of how many times I've seen it...

[Lois Sandborne]

Last year's performance of the theater show will be available to rent for $5 for two weeks on Amazon, beginning Friday. It's a benefit for various COVID-19 related causes.

[sinkwriter]

On 6/4/2019 at 7:14 AM, nachomama said:

I had major MAJOR issues with his first move coming right after her confession when she was so vulnerable. That warranted a hug not "kneel". Even though he doesn't know what it was exactly she couldn't confess, it wasn't a turn on in any way. That was blatantly abuse of power when she was most vulnerable.

I had an issue with it for a split second, when he opens the door and looks down at her (and his expression is kind of inscrutable in that moment) while she's looking up at him, clearly emotionally vulnerable.

But then he kneels down to her level, so to me that signified the two of them being equal / on the same terms. Plus, when he first kisses her, he won't even touch her with his hands - he keeps holding them away, like he's trying to be very careful.

[Milburn Stone]

I

On 4/6/2020 at 3:17 PM, Lois Sandborne said:

Last year's performance of the theater show will be available to rent for $5 for two weeks on Amazon, beginning Friday.

I watched it. Didn't think it really worked. I love theatre, but maybe because I've seen a lot of theatre over my life, I recognized a lot of theatrical "tropes" (for lack of a better word). What makes Fleabag (and the first season of Killing Eve) so good is that besides being really smart, they're not quite like anything else that's been done. With this stage version, I had the feeling that Phoebe said to herself, "Hmm, what is it people do when they have to write one-person shows? I know, I'll do some of that." 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Andrew Scott reprises his role as hot priest for RTE Comic Relief

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Hot Priest just won an Olivier for his role in Present Laughter!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Andrew Scott's iconic dance in The Pursuit of Love

 

[sinkwriter]

On 5/24/2021 at 7:15 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Andrew Scott's iconic dance in The Pursuit of Love

 

Marvelous.  :D

[applecrisp]

10 minutes ago, sinkwriter said:

Marvelous.  :D

Can we see it in the states anytime soon?

[AngieBee1]

4 hours ago, applecrisp said:

Can we see it in the states anytime soon?

July 30th on Amazon Prime.

[rmontro]

On 2/7/2017 at 5:53 PM, stanleyk said:

And thank you for this, because I went and bought the Mac shade, and it is awesome. 

Let us know if you get as much action as Fleabag does...

[rmontro]

I liked the priest character in this show, you don't often get good characterizations of Christians on TV anymore.  I liked that he was flawed, with his temptations and tendency to curse.  And how he was the only one who picked up on Fleabag's talking to the camera, it's almost like he had a supernatural instinct.

And although his speech about love was ultimately about God, he was also talking about Fleabag in there, less directly, since she was the current cause of his frustrations.